Host (6:21)

I love founder journeys that are rooted in a personal like pain point than you want to solve for other people who are in your shoes. It's just resonates so much with that. And one of the things that really strikes me about what you do and that we talked about briefly before was kind of the isolation that social impact leaders often face. And it's interesting because I feel like as on the fundraising side, right, when you're working with that one person who's managing social impact at an organization, a lot of nonprofits like carry the assumption that that person is well resourced, well supported, part of a big team. Right. Because all from the nonprofit perspective, they're sort of thinking about is this is an organization that definitely has more resources than I do. Right on the community side of things. And so I think it's really helpful for folks to have a better understanding of what it really looks like inside a lot of these shops, even at huge companies. So can you talk a little bit about that and kind of the role this plays in bringing those folks together?

Jeremy Brown (7:24)

Yeah. To your point, social impact in the corporate sector, it's very isolated. Many of the practitioners are team of one even at large companies. And just to give you an example of kind of what this looks like. So about a year ago I was having a conversation with a former practitioner. She's no longer in the social impact space but she told me the story of how she got with her former company. This was a, at the time a public company, about 13,000 employees representing 27 countries and she was a team of one servicing all those employees. In terms of volunteerism and grant making, that's a lot of work for one person to do. And that's pretty much the what it looks like at companies. You're lucky if you're a team of two. You're like a unicorn. Like it's, it's very rare even at public companies to find a full blown like CSR team. It's pretty incredible what these individuals are able to do with very limited resources. If you think about it, they're remit in terms of grant making and things like that. That's money coming out of the business and very little coming back through their efforts. And so they have a very stressful job because you have, you know, their leadership teams looking at social impact and you know, wondering why are we doing this if you know, we're trying to build the business, we're trying to cost here and there and we have this arm over here where money is just coming out of the business. And so practitioners are at a point now where they are trying to prove their worth and it's really, really difficult. And so there's, you know, I'm sure we can get into this later on but there's a lot of conversation around what does social impact need to evolve to in the corporate sector to actually be a viable kind of arm for businesses and for social impact world. We're trying to eradicate, eliminate that isolationism whether it's through the Slack community or events that we do in person and virtual. Just trying to bring people together and, and ensure that they have the support that they need because it is a, a really, really lonely role in a corporation. And again if you're a team of two or more. You're a unicorn.

Host (9:28)

Wow. Yeah. Okay, let's talk about that piece. I feel like we're sitting in this really interesting time, right? This really interesting sort of intersection business needs as we're in an economy where a lot of businesses are struggling and tightening the purse strings or whatever it is, and really making sure that they' investments are related, having the impact that they needed to have on the business. And we're obviously also at this moment of incredible societal need. And we're seeing this real difference in how companies are responding to this moment, whether they're leaning into their social impact and values aligned with that previously stated social impact, and whether they're using this opportunity to cut programming, cut connection to community. And I have to believe that on both sides, those are calculations being done around how that's ultimately going to impact their business and where the risks and rewards are on that side. Because at the end of the day, especially if they're a public company, they have a legal responsibility to their shareholders. And I understand that. But I'm curious, like, how do you sort of think about how the sort of categories of businesses and folks that are showing up to this moment and sort of how it relates to. To, you know, the work these social impact leaders are doing together?

Jeremy Brown (10:50)

I will say this. It's disappointing to see whether it's DEI or social impact or what have you, it is really disappointing to see companies pull back their commitments. I was actually talking to Dena Stoltz, who is. She was former Nike. She was, forget her exact job title, but she was a director of operations, I believe, on social impact. And we were having conversation and we're totally in agreement. Companies that pull their commitments are going in the long term, are going to struggle, in my opinion. And the reason for that is because consumers see this. They see, okay, at one point, you're all about DEI or social impact. And then when times get tough, you're pulling back. And that really, in my opinion, shows in some cases, not all companies are really thinking far ahead and the ramifications for their pulling back on their commitments, it's more so they're making changes because it's easy to do and it's not the trendy thing to do right now in terms of dei like years ago, obviously DEI was on the upswing. And so, oh, okay, let's dive into this because everyone else is doing it. But the reality is consumers are watching and they see this and there's going to be some real issues for these businesses in the future when consumers are looking for These businesses to be active in the community to do the right thing. And when they're not doing the right thing, it's going, they're going to get hit on their bottom line.

Host (12:14)

Okay, so how do social impact, like leaders and companies more broadly, how have you seen them kind of manage that like short term versus long term piece? Right. Because to me that's what's happening. Right. It's like, okay, we see the market's falling, we're worried about X, Y and Z. This pressure is coming from the government. We're afraid of this thing. We're going to make a short term decision. We're going to burn a lot of bridges in the process. And I completely agree with you. Not only, I mean it's disappointing, it feels really disorienting, honestly, especially with a lot of companies that I think we believed to be something different than how they're showing up right now. And I agree with you that it's going to have a lot like people are going to remember right this moment and like the pendulum swing from 2020 to right now that we've seen with all these different companies and. Because it feels a little bit like whiplash with some of these folks. Right. So when you think about like either for social impact leaders who are trying to navigate this space or nonprofits who are trying to figure out how they can best work with companies where they're not sure where they sit now in the pendulum swing because. Right. Some are being public on both sides. A lot of, there's, there's a lot of crickets everywhere.

Jeremy Brown (13:27)

Yes, sir.

Host (13:27)

What do you recommend in terms of like how we move forward with some of these conversations is a question for the.

Jeremy Brown (13:33)

On the nonprofit side or the social impact side?

Host (13:35)

I'm curious about both. We can start on the social impact leader side and then I am really curious about the nonprofit it. How you'd recommend that.

Jeremy Brown (13:42)

Yeah. So for the social impact leader side of things, I mean, it really starts from the top. What I've seen from leaders in companies that are, you know, that made strong commitments and some have pulled back, others have not. The ones that have not pulled back, it is a strong mandate to do this work from their C suite. The companies that, where I've seen pull their commitments back, it was never really a strong commitment from their executive team. It might have started from the bottom up where employees are really all about this. And then the executive team just kind of caved in and said, okay, let's go ahead and do this. But companies like Twilio, Salesforce, New Relic. And no one's perfect, mind you. No company is perfect. But they're still standing strong on their commitments. And it's because of the fact that they're C suite is fully bought in. And again, the ones that unfortunately are pulling back their commitments, it's not a strong buy in from their executive team. And so that's really on the shoulders of social impact leaders, that they're in a position where they have to demonstrate the value of this work and why it matters and why it's not just something you can have on the side, it's something that needs to be a core pillar of their business. And so it's on them to be able to tell those stories of impact and how it's impacted not only community, but also the business. So on the social impact side of things, it's definitely a uphill battle. But that's where social impact leaders are at right now, where many of them are trying to fight to keep the function alive at their companies.

Host (15:20)

Yeah. Wow. Okay. So given that that's actually the not perfect because it's very sad, but that's a good segue into okay, so what does this mean for how nonprofit leaders should or shouldn't approach folks right now? Because think there's a lot of beliefs or fears maybe inside the nonprofit sector that it is a bad time to reach out to companies. Right now they're figuring out a lot of things. And not that that isn't true in a lot of circumstances, but I also don't want nonprofits to be their own worst enemy. And where there are companies or organizations that are looking for partnership with folks exactly like them, like they do fit in well with what they are currently doing. I don't want them to be kind of taking themselves out of the of the equation before they need to either. So what would you recomm like, what is the right way maybe for a nonprofit to approach a company given the climate and et cetera?

Jeremy Brown (16:12)

Yeah, well, first step, I would say take a step back and avoid the kind of spray and pray approach where and I know many nonprofits are struggling, whether it's grants or any other donations, they need that to support their operations. But the one thing you don't want to do is just reach out to any corporation. Take a step back, think about your mission, what it is that you're trying to solve from there. Use that as the North Star. So look for corporations that have social impact arms of their business that are focusing on those core initiatives. You're going to have much more success if you're taking a laser like approach when it comes to your outreach than trying to reach out to everyone. So that would be my recommendation right there. The best partnerships that I've seen or I've heard of are the ones where there's complete alignment between corporation and the nonprofit. Those are the ones that work the best. And the last thing I want to say on this too is as a nonprofit, you don't want to just have a one off kind of relationship with a corporation. You get a check and then sayonara. Right? It's like, no, you want to get that check, but then you want to have that long term relationship because that for a non profit unlocks more opportunities and not just monetarily, but other opportunities and resources that might be available in the future too. So laser like approach to, to outreach and then reach out with the intention establishing a long term relationship with that corporation.

Host (17:38)

Yeah, I love that because I feel like that intentionality and the, the piece around not kind of the spray and pray approach, there's like a few pieces there. One is that you know that's going to come across obviously in your email outreach and your communication and even if now is not the right time, that's going to be felt like something I say a lot is like alignment can be a fundraising approach, but that's very different than alignment actually being your intention. Right. Like alignment can be a strategy or alignment can be an intention. And what you're saying is make sure that what your alignment is your intention and you're really identifying companies that are aligned with you to the best of your knowledge given you know, and that you're really committed to identifying that alignment and ensuring it either for now, for the future, so that you know you're going past that initial transactional, okay, cool, you had a volunteer a day and you got fifteen hundred dollars. But like what was the point of all of that? And in a lot of cases for organizations, things like that are, that's very expensive money to accept. Right.

Jeremy Brown (18:50)

I will say too, just to add on to that, in terms, if a nonprofit's ever in a position where they're not sure what the corporation stands for, they're not sure the type of organizations that the corporation supports. Nine times out of ten they'll put it on their website. More often than not, they'll have it in their impact reports, their annual impact reports. So dive into those that will give you way more information about what the corporation cares about and then use that to kind of formulate your outreach.

Host (19:18)

That is really, really good advice. Okay. For social impact leaders, where can they go to learn more about the community you've created, the event, all of the things.

Jeremy Brown (19:28)

All the things. SocialImpactWorld.com that's where to go to learn about all the different events, webinars, the community that we've built over the years too. So socialimpactworld.com is the place you want to be.

Host (19:40)

Okay. Before we end, is there anything that I didn't ask you that I should have asked you, that you feel like social impact leaders or nonprof or kind of chomping at the bit to understand that you're really seeing in your world right now?

Jeremy Brown (19:52)

Yeah. On the social impact leader side of things. And this is a conversation that I've had with several leaders over the last, I'd say, year and a half or so. So we are in a position now where corporate social impact has to evolve. And one of the kind of pillars of this evolution that I'm a firm believer in, this kind of goes against the grain, but turning social impact into a revenue generator. And when I say that there are some people that are like, yeah, nope, we a hundred percent believe that. And there's others that more so the purists out there that don't want to see social impact or any form of social impact kind of diverge into something that is seen as kind of salesy or to less impact, more like monetary driver. And I get both sides of the of the coin. The reality is, and this is something I talked with Dina from, from former relief from Nike impact at a corporation. Number one, you're at a corporation. The fiduciary responsibility of executives at a corporation is to make money. That's just the reality of things. And so if we're going to have corporate impact and have corporations support community, there has to be a way for social impact leaders to generate revenue from the work that they're doing. I'm not saying that they have to bankrupt nonprofits or anything like that, but there are plenty of companies, new relic Twilio, as I mentioned earlier, that have found a way to unlock the nonprofit sector in a way that allows their social impact functions to essentially run their own because they're generating revenue for the business. And now when you put yourself into the shoes of an executive, when they're looking at the social impact function and they see that is driving actual business value, it makes it much harder to get rid of that function than if it was not generating any type of revenue whatsoever. And so I just want to put that out there for for your audience to think about in terms of the evolution of this work. If we're going to see this continue and, and grow in importance, we have to make some changes in this sector.

Host (22:01)

I think that this point is so incredibly important. And I also, like, I think it's okay for us to say, oh, this makes me cringe because I wish the world wasn't this way. Right. And that we want to be sort of like in our, and I don't use this term in a degrading, but like our self righteousness around our impact work. Right. Which is, and our purity that we want there. But exactly to your point before, at the end of the day, we have decisions to make. And I say this to fundraisers all the time. Look, you decide who you accept money from and you need to have a gift acceptance policy and you need to be really clear about who you work with and who you don't work with. And that has to be approved by you and your board and all those things. But if you want to work with corporate partners, being able to demonstrate how your work with them leads to value creation on their end and money is critical because at the end of the day, that is what they're evaluating this on. I, we can say everything else we want to say about how it shouldn't be that way, but it is what's happening.

Jeremy Brown (23:02)

It's a reality. It's a reality of things.

Host (23:04)

It is the reality. And so I really do think we have to take a good hard look and make some decisions. Like, do we want to align, find shared goals, find shared purpose and then be comfortable with the fact that that means, you know, giving each other different information or reporting metrics that the company can share back with their boss, or creating marketing value and brand value and sales pipelines. Like, we have to just make some decisions there. But I totally agree with you. I think it's a conversation that needs to be had and that we need to talk about when, especially when we're seeing programming not work there or fundraisers or organizations are really struggling to build those relationships. And it's like, yeah, because there isn't alignment here. And let's just be honest about what's happening.

Jeremy Brown (23:48)

Well, the good news is social impact leaders are starting to realize that change needs to happen in order for their value to truly be seen. And I said this when we first started the conversation, but social impact leaders are literally some of the most versatile people I've ever met in my life. Not only do they do all the community work, but they have program management skills. They have communication skills. So their skill set adds a ton of value in a corporation. It's just they have to unleash it. And so, yeah, they're starting to realize that change needs to happen and the conversations are, are starting. It's just now, you know, we need to see it put into practice a little bit more.

Host (24:29)

100%. Thank you so much for this conversation, for all the work that you're doing, for the bridges that you're building, and just for all of your leadership in the social impact space. I am so grateful.

Jeremy Brown (24:40)

Mallory. Thank you for having me and thank you for a great conversation.

Mallory Erickson (24:48)

I hope today's episode inspired or challenged you to think differently. For additional takeaways, tips, show notes, and more about our amazing guests and sponsors, head on over to Malloryerickson.com podcast and if you didn't know, hosting this podcast isn't the only thing I do every day. I coach, guide and help fundraisers and leaders just like you. Inside of my program, the Power Partners Formula Collective. Inside the program, I share my methods, tools and experiences that have helped me fundraise millions of dollars and feel good about myself in the process. To learn more about how I can help you, visit Mallory.

Host (25:27)

Partners.

Mallory Erickson (25:28)

Last but not least, if you enjoyed this episode, I'd love to encourage you to share it with a friend you know would benefit or leave a review. I'm so grateful for all of you and the good, hard work you're doing to make our world a better place. I can't wait to see you in the next episode.