Mallory Erickson (4:47)

Wow. I mean, such an unbelievably tremendous story and model for folks. And I have so many questions I want to ask you about that, but I'm going to force myself to sort of stay on what's coming next for you because I think it's so interesting that you're taking this history inside this sector, this focus, this work that you've been doing, and now you're thinking about it related to AI. So talk to me a little bit about that. Like where is the intersection of that kind of world changing work and where you see AI has arrived or is going or could go?

Candice Mama (5:27)

Absolutely. I mean, I, much like many other people, was blown away when ChatGPT came into my life, right? And I think I speak for all of us when I say I was like, what is this tool and how do I make it work? And initially it was simply for self indulgence. It was asking ridiculously small questions, seeing if it could brainstorm with me how efficient it was. However, the more I started working with this technology and learning how to program it, it started really scaring me a little bit. I was like, oh my gosh, like I did this and I'm not a tech genius. And at the time I was working in Australia with an organization called aim, which helps Aboriginal youth get into university. And I was also working with different communities across the world. And the one thing that started becoming really apparent to me was that we could only scale this work to a certain degree. I can only be in so many places, Jack could only be in so many places and everyone I worked with had limited capacity. But if we created and we helped people learn these technologies and start moving with them and realizing that they too could do what I did as a non savings person, and I started to dig. I started looking at where am I the most equipped? And that's been in conflict and post conflict societies. And I started looking at the blockchain. And the one thing that really interested me about the blockchain is one of the biggest issues that happens when you come from a country that either develops into a tyranny and goes back to a democracy or is in war, is that you lose everything. And the problem is, once it starts to stabilize, proving that you own the thing that you had is impossible. And so how do we help people still keep ownership and dignity over the things that they possessed prior to being dispossessed? And to me I was like, oh my gosh, the blockchain. This is the only way to do it. And so that's really what started my curiosity and started moving me in the direction of how do we make AI? As we were saying before we just started, how do we make AI more ethical? How do we make sure that it can help as many people as possible?

Mallory Erickson (7:40)

Wow. And talk to me a little. I think there's so much there around as I think about AI and AI adoption and what AI helps us scale. And you know, I think a big reason why I'm an advocate for using AI for social change and social good is that it's being used everywhere else. And so the. What is the alternative? Then that everything else starts to move even faster like that? Does that mean. I remember waking up one day and being like, well, does that mean that the bad stuff will just start to move so much faster than the good stuff? If we inside the sector and we tend to be later adopters of technology and have a lot more resistance and we can get caught in sort of our perfectionism or you know, I use this word with like a lot of tenderness and love, but like our self righteousness around these imperfect solutions to problems. So talk to me about like how you hold that balance. We were talking before we hit record that there are a lot of concerns around AI. There are a lot of potential negative implications of it. How do you get up every day and sort of accept that truth while also looking for building, seeking out the ways in which it can support folks?

Candice Mama (8:57)

Oh, I love everything you just said there because that is what condenses the work that we do and why we are probably not making as big of an impact no matter how good we want to be and how much we want to do and how I've always envisioned it, especially after I started learning the capabilities of AI and how quickly it's growing, is the train has left the station. So there's nothing we can do about the train having left the station. And I understand the ethical implications and the environmental factors that are connected to the blockchain and AI as it stands. However, I also understand that it's not a technology that's going anywhere. And what you just said is so important, which is I think when you are in the work of wanting to do good just as a human being generally, but especially in these sectors, you are so focused on the perfectionism that you're like, I want to save these people, but also I don't want to damage the environment and I don't want to do this and I don't want to harm this person and I don't want to ask for money here and I don't want to do this. And then what it does is it just brings your bubble smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller and eventually you realize that, oh gosh, I actually can't do that because every person that I might go finding might have an affiliation that I'm not comfortable with because it's not righteous, right? So what I've had to realize, especially with everything that's currently going on in the global, just globally, everywhere in the world, and it's impacting each and every one of us, is that the people that we look at and criticize and say are harming the environment and they're harming us. And we know what we feel it. We wake up with that feeling in our chest, they don't care. And the only way to combat that is for us to stop waiting to be perfect and waiting for the perfect technology to be developed and say, no, no, I'm also going to fight. I'm also going to get myself in the ring. I'm also going to ensure that for as much evil that's happening with this thing, I, I'm going to create something good. And I've also got to be honest with myself that sometimes the self righteousness and perfectionism is just a way of me not having to do everything that I can do to stop the truth, to stop the chaos from unfolding. Because sometimes that's the bubble we stick ourselves in and then we end up with the repercussions that I think we all experiencing globally at the moment.

Mallory Erickson (11:15)

Yeah. Wow. Do you have any strategies like in yourself when like I know sometimes I will have those moments of like, you know, I'll just feel the fear in my belly or I'll, I'll feel the, my own discomfort with something taking a step forward with something when I'm not 100% sure of all the implications. And do you have kind of self coaching strategies or ways that you keep yourself moving forward even when you're faced with some of that?

Candice Mama (11:45)

Oh, I love that because I think that's the exciting moment, right? We so often that moment, that hesitation, that feeling of butterflies in our tummies is a negative thing, is something we should run away from instead of realizing that it's the same chemical reaction you have when you're really excited about something, when you're falling in love for the first time. And it's just the way we are narrating the feeling, we say, oh my goodness, I'm scared. Right. And so there's this incredible quote I live by and it's from Game of Thrones and basically one of the characters asked and said, yeah, I'm scared. Can I be brave? And basically it starks is that is the only time you can be brave. And so I think so often we waiting for courage to find us, bravery to find us. Instead you have to realize that, oh, bravery is on the other side of this action. It's on the other side of me doing the thing that I don't want to do. We don't want to necessarily be eating vegetables all the time, but we know that the net benefit of it is incredible. We don't want to exercise, but we know that the repercussions of not doing so impacts us long term. And so for me, it's not so much a. Because before, I used to feel like I need to pump myself up and psych myself out to do this thing. And instead, now I just Zen out. I just say, well, I guess this is what we're doing now. Same way as once you've been strapped into a roller coaster. I laugh at myself. I laugh with myself. And I'm just like, how did you get me to this point again? I thought we were done with scary.

Mallory Erickson (13:26)

Okay. I love that, because I feel like that light inner dialogue is also something that gets me through so much. Like, my. My daughter recently was like, I was doing a really big professional thing, and I was working way more than I normally do. I'm usually much more kind of rigid in my boundaries between home and. But so she was seeing me on my computer in our house, and in ways she hadn't really before. And she was like, mom, like, why are you working so much now? And I was like, oh, my boss is being so hard on me. And then she's like, I thought, you're the boss. And I'm like, oh, I am the boss. I'm the one being really hard on me, you know? But I feel like that kind of, like, inner dialogue is so important, and that, like, lightness to the fact that, like, oh, like, here we are again. Like, here. You promised me it wouldn't get crazy again, and it always gets crazy again, you know, or whatever it is that I'm telling myself. I feel like it actually, underneath it all, is me having my own back. Right. Because I'm not beating myself up. I'm, like, seeing myself, and I'm being like, yeah, this is a pattern. You tend to find yourself here. You also get through it, you know, and it sounds like you have a lot of that, too.

Candice Mama (14:42)

Absolutely. And there's something you said, which, actually is something I teach a lot of people that I coach or, you know, in the work that I do. And I say the best thing you could do for yourself is create a war plan for yourself before the war starts. It's useless once the war's begun, because now you can't be sitting down with your notepad being like, oh, my goodness, they're coming from the south. Okay, Gosh, what am I? Because now it's action time. So what I say is your game plan, and your war plan has to have one opening page, and that page has to illustrate and show every single thing that was designed to break you. And this could be interpersonally, this could be professionally, this could be, you know, things that just come at you in life and you think to yourself, I'm never going to make it. There's no way. Like, my nine lives are over. Timeout. And you have to write to that thing, how you made it. And so once you realize that difficult moments you do overcome difficult moments you built to do difficult things and you see the things that you put it in perspective and you're like, oh, actually, that was so much worse. And so this is going to be so much easier, so I might as well have fun, right? Because the truth is, we're not afraid of failure. We're afraid of failing in front of other people. We're afraid of the feedback that failure gives us. Oh, you can't trust Mallory. Oh, don't do business with Mallory. Oh, look at her. She tried and look at her now, right? And so what? They're going to say it. They're going to say it when you're successful, when you fail. And so you have to be your own biggest cheerleader and be like, yeah, I might fail, but you know what's not going to happen? It won't kill me. Like, I won't die. I'm literally just going to mope in bed, do what I need to do in order to recoup. I'm going to watch Grey's Anatomy, eat ice cream and be like, why are we always choosing the plot twist? Why can't we just do the normal thing? Laugh at myself, then do the plot twist again tomorrow.

Mallory Erickson (16:43)

Right? Yes, I can pick up.

Mallory Erickson (16:49)

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Mallory Erickson (17:35)

That I love that you said that because I feel like one of the things that I often, like, say to clients, like when I'm coaching them is, you know, what if we just try this other way of thinking for one day or one hour, you can go back to obsessing about that other thing later. Like, you can have all of that back if you want it. But what if we just tried this thing just this once, for just a second here? And I love.

Candice Mama (18:00)

So.

Mallory Erickson (18:00)

I love that you're, like, breaking it down like that. And because change is hard, and especially big changes, and especially when we're already feeling overwhelmed and already feeling dysregulated, then to think about how we're gonna be brave or do something really differently, it can be even harder.

Candice Mama (18:18)

And I would say, you know, the biggest thing that has happened with spirituality and everyone wanting to be the best version of themselves is I think we've deluded ourselves into believing that we are always supposed to be happy, that we are always supposed to feel a situation. And I think the greatest thing you can do for yourself is just give yourself a window of time. If you are grieving a business, a loss or whatever, just say, you know what? For this week, if I need to cry while driving, I'm gonna cry while driving. If I want to get Ben and Jerry's and just eat under my bed covers and not go to work, I'm gonna do that. Like, that's just gonna be my week. My week of grieving is my week of sadness. This is my week of morning. But you have to promise yourself that Monday, I'm jumping in the shower. I'm putting on my makeup, whatever it is for you, I'm putting on my world armor, and I'm going at it again. And so you have to create this balance within your life to say, I'm allowed to be human. I'm allowed to be afraid. I'm allowed to be sad. But those feelings are exactly that. Feelings. They come and they go. But I cannot make a home in those feelings. And I think that's where most people get scared, stuck, is they feel sad, they feel disappointed, they feel like they failed. And then they create and build a whole foundation of their personality and identity and their homes in this feeling. And I think that's when it's dangerous. Okay?

Mallory Erickson (19:40)

There's so much there that I feel like is so important. And, you know, I think I even do, like, micro versions of what you're saying. Like, I'll. I'll get hit with a big disappointment or something, really. And I'll set a timer on my phone for five minutes, and I will have, like, a temper tantrum. And I'll just be like, feel all your feelings. Jump. I have, like, a little trampoline. I'll, like, angry. Jump on my trampoline. Like, I'll do whatever it is, but I'll be like, feel all Your feelings get mad, whatever it is, like. And then when the timer goes off, like, reset, you know, come back. And so I love that idea, Whatever it is, whether it's a week or a moment, like, to just give yourself permission, right? And sort of acknowledge, like, it requires a certain level of awareness of, like, I am feeling this instead of I am this, right? It's like, I am feeling this sense of failure instead of, I am a failure. It, like, requires that pause. But then I find that it really helps me come back.

Candice Mama (20:35)

And a great thing I was taught, just jumping off what you've just said is sometimes when you don't feel strong and you don't feel confident, it's okay to borrow it from someone else. Sometimes it's going to be your husband, your best friend. Sometimes it's going to be a celebrity that you really admire or an author or whatever. And it's okay to say, you know, I don't feel it right now, but I'm gonna borrow it from this person. Like, I'm gonna carry it and just hold it like a blanket around myself. And. Because sometimes these moments where we feel extreme emotion is before something important that we're supposed to do. And so instead of saying, you know what? I'm not gonna do this. I'm not ready to do. Get into this fundraising meeting. I'm not ready to do this. Be like, tadam. Today, I am borrowing Rihanna's confidence, because I'm sure Rihanna, from saying, I don't belong here, or Oprah's confidence. Right? Or whoever it is, you're just like, well, I'm here. I'm not going to mess it up, because I trust myself and I'm betting on myself. And if I leave this room, as long as I'm proud of me, I'm okay. Everything else can happen.

Mallory Erickson (21:43)

Okay? This is a nice segue into something we were talking about before we hit record as well, which is sort of how you take this mindset and allow it to be something where, you know, you're going through this big shift, right? You're entering this unknown territory. You're making a career pivot. And so in addition to everything else you said, one of the things that really struck me when we were talking before is, like, your desire to get pushback from people as you start to learn to get to have people, say, tell you where you might have a blind spot or maybe where you're wrong or why something won't work. And I love that. Like, I love that you expressed that, because I think that's also Something I really want in my work and something I'm always looking for, like where those spaces and places are for those types of conversations. But talk to me about how you think about that and how you kind of manage that in relation to everything that we're talking about here.

Candice Mama (22:40)

Oh, I love that you brought that up. Yes. I mean, you know, I think it's so important that when you. You going into anything new, just approaching it from a childlike perspective. Right. I think when you've been really good at anything in life, whether that's as an athlete, the work that you've done in your life, you've written a book, whatever it is, your identity can become so intertwined with that thing that you're so scared of being bad at something else. Whereas for me, at least in my career, where I've grown the most and where I've been challenged the most in order for me to grow is when I've gotten critical feedback. So I'm not the kind of person who, if I give you something, if I pitch you a business or I'm asking for your feedback, I don't want you to say, oh, this is amazing. Like, you're doing so great. I'm so proud of you. Of course I like it. Of course I'm a human. It makes me feel good. But what's more useful to me is when someone says, hey, I can see completely what you're doing. You 60% on the right track, but 40% of this is not going to work. And because I am the kind of person I am, I enjoy engaging with someone who disagrees so that we can have a battle of will and thought and idea. Because I'm going to come out stronger on the other side because you're going to have helped me craft a better idea. I would have taken out the stuff that's actually not that useful. I'd see what I'm actually attached to and what I'm not and what I need to change and where I need to go back to the drawing board. And I think the biggest thing one can do is separate yourself, your identity from the work that you do, which is so much easier said than done. But when you tie your identity to your output, then of course feedback is going to feel jarring and it's going to feel painful. But if you look at it as my identity is me, myself and I and what I've done, the people I love, etc. But this is a piece of work that I'm creating. And work can be imperfect. It can be criticized it can be analyzed, it can be. Because it's not you, it's outside of you. And I think when you do that and you create the separation between church and state, feedback becomes so much more fruitful. It becomes so much better for you, the idea, the business, the people you serving. So yes, I'm all for constructive feedback. Tell me what's wrong with it, don't tell me what's right.

Mallory Erickson (25:00)

Well, I love that. And I think there's this piece here that I think is really applicable to nonprofit leaders, which is, I think you have a really clear North Star and your focus is there. And so everything you want in terms of feedback, conversation, connection is driving towards that North Star. And I feel similarly my focus on solving a problem or figuring something out, it lets my ego go because it's not about the purpose, is not me. Right. Or it's not kind of my protection of me or what people think of me. It's like, can I figure this thing out? And then if that's my relentless obsession, I want to do whatever I can and get whatever feedback I can and hear whatever I need to hear in order to help me figure it out.

Candice Mama (25:54)

Yes, exactly.

Mallory Erickson (25:56)

I'm looking at time. We could talk forever, but I want to make sure that we have a chance to tell people where they can go to connect with you, to talk to you about all of this. Like, my hope is that this conversation is the beginning of many conversations you get to have with folks who are thinking about grappling with some of the same questions and challenges. So tell everyone where they can go and connect with you.

Candice Mama (26:17)

Thank you. And also just want to say thank you for your graciousness, for interviewing me today, for taking the time out of your day, especially in this week. And yes, where people can reach me. LinkedIn, any social media, I'm pretty much there. But LinkedIn is probably the best. It is Candice. C A N D I C E Mama M A M A. And yes, that's really my surname. It's not a stage name, it would be a weird one. But yes, I'm looking forward to connecting with like minded people and people working in the space.

Mallory Erickson (26:49)

Candace, thank you so much for all of your wisdom, for everything you shared with us, for all the work that you're doing for our sector and our world. I'm so grateful for this conversation, so grateful to know you and yeah, just really appreciate you being here with me today.

Candice Mama (27:02)

Thank you, Mallory. It's been such a pleasure being here.

Mallory Erickson (27:11)

I hope today's episode inspired or challenged you to think differently. For additional takeaways, tips, show notes, and more about our amazing guest and sponsors, head on over to Mallorykson.com podcast and if you didn't know, hosting this podcast isn't the only thing I do every day. I coach, guide and help fundraisers and leaders just like you. Inside of my program, the Power Partners Formula Collective. Inside the program, I share my methods, tools and experiences that have helped me fundraise millions of dollars and feel good about myself in the process. To learn more about how I can help you, visit MalloryErickson.com PowerPartners Last but not least, if you enjoyed this episode, I'd love to to encourage you to share it with a friend you know would benefit or leave a review. I'm so grateful for all of you and the good hard work you're doing to make our world a better place. I can't wait to see you in the next episode. Nonprofit leaders, you know the challenge. Raising more funds, proving your impact, and telling your story in a way that moves donors. Liminal gets it. With 50 plus years of nonprofit experience, they help organizations elevate their brand, clarify messaging and inspire action. Ready to stand out? Visit meetliminal.com today.