← What the Fundraising
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- [00:00]
Clay Buck
Foreign.
- [00:04]
Mallory
Nonprofit Leaders Mark your calendars Join me June 3rd and 4th at the free 2025 donorperfect community conference. It is all about connection this year and you are going to learn about connection in terms of donor engagement and learn proven strategies to drive real impact. Register now@donorperfect.com donorperfect-conference that's donorperfect.com donorperfect-conference.
- [00:39]
Clay Buck
If we don't know if you don't know that somebody gave because somebody asked them to, let's look at all giving history as let's start with the assumption that they gave because of alignment with values and identity. They gave because, number one, generosity is important to them as a person, to their identity as they see themselves. Most people, according to psychological studies, most people walk around thinking of themselves as generous, kind, caring people.
- [01:11]
Mallory
Hey, my name is Mallory and I'm obsessed with helping leaders in the nonprofit space raise money and run their organizations differently. What the Fundraising is a space for real and raw conversations to both challenge and inspire you. Not too long ago, I was in your shoes. I uncomfortable with fundraising and unsure of my place in this sector. It wasn't until I started to listen to other experts outside of the fundraising space that I was able to shift my mindset and ultimately shift the way I show up as a leader. This podcast is my way of blending professional and personal development so we, as a collective inside the nonprofit sector can feel good about the work we are doing. Join me every week as I interview some of the brightest minds in the personal and professional development space to help you fundamentally change the way you lead and fundraise. I hope you enjoy this episode, so let's dive in. Welcome everyone.
- [02:06]
Unknown
I'm so excited to be here today with my friend Clay Buck Clay, welcome back to what the Fundraising.
- [02:12]
Clay Buck
Thank you. I'm so glad to be here.
- [02:14]
Unknown
Let's just give everyone a little overview of you, what you do, what brings you to this conversation, and then we're going to get into all the juiciness.
- [02:23]
Clay Buck
So yeah, I'm Clay. I, for the last five years have been running an independent consulting agency, Next River Fundraising Strategies. I focus on individual giving from acquisition through major gifts. So I deal with all the strategy and all the stuff that goes into individual giving. I'm a reluctant data nerd and storyteller and champion of all things generosity. So this these are my favorite conversations. I'm thrilled to be here.
- [02:48]
Unknown
Okay, wait, what does that mean, reluctant data nerd?
- [02:52]
Clay Buck
I'm a theater major for crying out loud, so there's nothing about me that Nothing in my back. I mean, I failed college algebra three times. Like, I'm not a math person. My brain does not work. Brain works in stories. It doesn't work in data. So I say I'm a reluctant data nerd because, I mean, you know, this. You know, this life. When you're the one person shop, you have to do all things. And I realized very early on that, you know, being able to contact donors was about being able to have good data and understand the data. And so I used to kick around the country with my big three piece, four megabyte, whatever it was, desktop with the big monitor and, you know, all the stuff. Um, and taught myself Excel back in the days of Clippy and Mavis Beacon, teaches typing. Right. So I learned it because I had to. And I sort of take the approach that seriously. Truly, if I can learn it, then anybody can. Right?
- [03:52]
Unknown
Okay. So I love that we're starting here because I feel like. I feel like you in my mind, I mean, are like, have such a good understanding and handle on data, and not just data for data's sake, but data for. For the purpose of deepening relationships and having really genuine connections with donors. And so I love that you started there because I also had a lot of stories around sort of like math and my aptitude at really understanding. I felt very resistant to data technology. I was like, that's not how my brain works. Right, exactly. And. But you are just such walking proof of how we can, like, overcome a lot of those things. And so I think for folks who are listening to this, who maybe feel that way about their data or their database, but also are feeling this level of kind of like uncertainty around their donor relationships and feeling like, I don't know how to move things forward the way I want to. I don't know how to deepen connection and maybe haven't considered that some of the solutions that. Or inside that data.
- [04:59]
Clay Buck
Yeah. Let me start here with no shame intended, no admonition, no finger pointing or finger wagging, but your best donor, if you are a nonprofit, if you are a fundraiser, if you're an executive director, with any amount of data in your system, any amount of previous donors, anything, your best donor is not somebody you haven't met yet. It's somebody already in your database. This is one of the hardest things, I think, in the first steps of getting it. It's not about getting data, it's about getting people. And if we look at that, there isn't some big mystical concept of donor that is out there. If you look At a Venn diagram of humans to donors, the overlap is 100% right? Because everybody is generous in some way. If you have any data, if you have any records in any system, you already have people who have indicated that they care. And that's the very first step, right, Is acknowledging and accepting that the information that we have points to real life, human, caring people. And it's on us to be able to smudge that relationship. Because let's stop thinking of data as data, right? Like, it's hard. This hard, difficult concept. Data that we collect, that we have in our systems. These are the stories donors are telling us. So we talk about so much about storytelling out, right? Storytelling to donors, when what people are telling us about themselves is the story they're telling us. So if someone cares enough about you to share their name, their email address, their address, their phone number, anything they're saying to you, hey, here I am. See me, right? The donor that doesn't share anything with you they don't want, right? This is the person that gives you the fake email address or the Gmail address that they only give to people they don't want to hear from. You know, we all have one. Don't deny it, right? If somebody is sharing any level of information with you, that is something about them they want you to know. So the first step to me in relationships is just acknowledging that there's no big mystery, there's no big metrics, there's no big nothing. It's just, hey, these thousand people, these 500 people, these 10,000 people have told me their name and a way to contact them. Boom. First step.
- [07:20]
Unknown
Wow. Okay, so we have. I love this. Okay, so we have that data, right? We have there. And I love that way of thinking about it, that the data that they're sharing with us is part of how they're storytelling to us. That's. I love thinking about that framing. So we have that data. Maybe we have some inclination about what they care about, things like that. But then the other piece of data that we have is their giving history, right? And then we start to create all these other kind of like data metrics related to their giving history. We start to call them laps, or we start to call them recurring, or we start to call them, you know, right? And we put them into categories. And again, all of that is related to, at the end of the day, money. And then we start to create news stories for that donor, right? Based on what they have told us or haven't told us and the money piece. And we don't often, to your point, maybe include a lot of other information that they actually are sharing or ways in which they're interacting with us that are telling a story in their whole kind of data story. Talk to me a little bit how you think about that. Like, how do we avoid, you know, knowing that the lagging indicator of money in the door is one of the ways that as fundraisers we're being tracked and measured and that's what the breathing down our neck. How do we avoid, you know, having the donor story become all about this transactional relationship and like, what metrics can we use to change that?
- [08:51]
Clay Buck
Great, great. So a lot to unpack. Yeah, a lot, A lot to unpack there. So when a donor gives, when a person gives to an organization, they're doing so because one of two reasons. One, they care about the cause, they care about the mission, something about it connected with them and more than likely it hit on personal identity and values. The second reason somebody gave is because somebody asked them to. People give to people. I love, love peer to peer campaigns. I think they're one of the greatest that we can do to have a peer have someone like me. Like Seth Godin says, people like us do things like this, right? You ask me, you, Mallory, my friend, you ask me to support a cause that you care about. I'm more than likely going to give because I know you, I trust you, I like you. I might be supporting a cause that isn't necessarily part of my identity set or my value set. So I think in our data we've got those two. If we don't know, if you don't know that somebody gave because somebody asked them to. Let's look at all giving history as let's start with the assumption that they gave because of alignment with values and identity. They gave because, number one, generosity is important to them as a person, to their identity as they see themselves. Most people, according to psychological studies, most people walk around, think of themselves as generous, kind, caring people. We know this from Doctors Adrienne Sargent and Jen Chang at the Institute for Sustainable Philanthropy. People think of themselves as kind and generous. Giving. Tuesday, our friend Woodrow did the study right. Worldwide, 86% of people indicated that they are generous. So people think of themselves as givers. So first let's look at that they gave to us, therefore they see themselves as generous. If all we have is name, address and giving information, we can reflect back and say, mallory, thank you for being a generous person. Thank you for caring, thank you for being you. Thank you for engaging with us in this mission, because our first tip is, let's assume positive intent and come back to that simple metrics. They gave. They gave us their information. We know how to contact them, period. Right? We can assume generous person. We can also assume a generous person who cares about this cause. But this is where. This is really where we have to get into the you statements versus us statements. Because if our first message back is about us, then we haven't reflected back to them who they are through their giving, through their actions. We haven't reflected back the story they're telling themselves. So let me give you a deeper example of this too, because we do often do this, right? We segment by lapsed and long lapsed and lie button, side button. I can guarantee you nobody is walking around going, hey, look at me, I'm a lie. But right? And taking pride in that fact that I'm a lie. But I have for the last five, six years. One of the things that I do a lot of, as you know, is donor engagement reports, database audits, looking at quality of data and giving history. In almost every single file, there is a group of what I call consistent but not consecutive. And you have to see them over a long period. 5 years is good, 10 years is better. And what happens is they'll make a gift in year one, for example, they'll make a gift in year one. In year two, they go to the gala and they purchase a silent auction item and, you know, maybe give something at the raise the paddle. The year three, they don't give. They don't give again until late in year four, and that's at the holiday campaign. And now we've tagged them as a holiday donor. Now they don't give for two years. And the point of the story is, over a longer period of time, they're coming in and out, right, of being a donor. And in our terminology, they're current, they're lapsed, they're current, they're lapsed. They're current, they're lapsed right in their mind. So what we have done is we have isolated those groups and then started communicating with them directly to that behavior. So, for example, let's say you were one of these. Consistent, but not consecutive. And what I would do is I would reach out and say, dear Mallory, hey, we have been doing some work on our data, we've been doing some work on our systems, and we really wanted to reach out and let you know that what we've seen that you have been giving and supporting Wayward Wombats for the last 10 years. It means you're one of our most generous and loyal supporters. And we just wanted to take a minute and thank you for being a part of the mission. Right. And then we do a targeted sort of messaging couple or three times where we include soft asks that ultimately culminate in a hard ask. So, Mallory, we noticed that over the last 10 years, you give on average, about $50 a year. Would you consider making a quarterly gift of $25, which is right about where you have given, which would be a total of $100 a year. We can put that on a credit card on our recurring payment plan, so you don't have to worry about it. You're fulfilling your belief in our mission and you're giving us sustainable, reliable income that we know we can count on because we know you care about Wayward Wombats. Something like that. That's rough off the top of my head, but that's the general idea. These people convert to recurring, like, nobody. Because in our minds, they're lapsed, they're current. They're lapsed, they're current, they're long lapse, they're current. Right? In their minds, of course I support Wayward Wombats. That's who I am. That's what I do. They're not paying attention to when they last gave or tax deductibility, time or any of that. The relationship they're defining. Right. They're out there going, of course I support Wayward Wombats. And when we say, hey, Mallory, we notice that you haven't given in a while, they go, yeah, I did. Of course I did. No, it was three years ago. Well, we have short term memory, like we don't know. Right?
- [14:14]
Unknown
So it's.
- [14:15]
Clay Buck
To me, the data that we're gathering is all about reflecting back to them, that initial start of the relationship, kind, generous, caring person, and the behavior that they're showing to us. I will also take this moment to say again, with all due respect and love in my heart, channel is the weakest segmentation that we have. Just because somebody gives my by mail does not make them a direct mail donor. Just because they give online does not make them an online donor. And we do a disservice when we segment solely by channel of action. Do not confuse channel of action with channel of engagement. They are two different things.
- [14:53]
Unknown
Okay, talk a little bit more about that.
- [14:55]
Clay Buck
There are multiple studies that show us that hard mail drives online giving and vice versa. So anybody that does any amount of direct mail can tell you we get. I don't have one on my desk. I'M going to do the visual. Right. We get reply slips from like three years ago. It happens all the time. And what happens is an email will go out and reference a mail solicitation. People have stuck that reply device with their checks or however their process is for paying bills and then they go, oh, I want them to think that I got this and that I meant to send it back then. So they pull out an old slip that they've been holding onto because they meant to give. Right. We also know that mail prompts online so you can track online if. And one of the best things to do with this, and I know our platforms do it and do it well, is to create a unique URL in your CRM for that particular appeals. And you put that in the reply device and people go to that appeal and then you know, hey, they're giving to that appeal because they went to that giving page. Right. And we're not tremendously good at this as a sector, but we know that those things are prompting each other. Texts, text prompts, people to give online and vice versa. Like there's all kinds of things. It's wishy washy and wibbly, wobbly and all over the place. Right. So when we segment by channel, we're doing a disservice to some of our donors that may or may not be in. Honestly, there's a lot of studies that are showing the fastest growing population in responding to direct mail is Gen Z, believe it or not. Yeah. Because they didn't have grandparents that sent them newspaper clippings. They had grandparents that sent them Facebook posts. Right. So they get something in the mail. And this is novel, it's new, it's different. And every time I bring that up in a conference, somebody goes, well, not my grandchild. Okay, well, not yours. Yes, understood. But from kind of a generic overall.
- [16:43]
Unknown
Yes.
- [16:48]
Mallory
If you are a fundraising professional or nonprofit leave leader, you won't want to miss the 2025 donor perfect community conference. I'm excited to be your host for this free event on June 3rd and 4th. It's all about building deeper connections with your donors, your team and your mission. You'll learn how to create lasting donor relationships, boost your digital presence and transform one time donors into lifelong champions of your cause. You'll walk away with practical strategies, fresh insights and a renewed passion for your work. Join me and Register today@donorperfect.com donorperfect conference that's donorperfect.com donorperfect conference I cannot wait to see you there.
- [17:35]
Unknown
Okay, so let's think about like the smaller organization that is using like a CRM, like donorperfect, what are they? And they maybe are trying to figure out how to get more sophisticated in. Or maybe sophisticated is the wrong word. They're trying to, to get more relationship oriented in their fundraising. They're feeling that tug and stress around how are they going to hit their end of year goals, right? Like you, you and I know this, like the uncertainty of how are we going to get there? And not feeling, maybe I'll just speak for myself, like safe in my body that I'm going to achieve my goal until that money really comes in the door, led to a lot of kind of anxiety throughout the year of feeling like, am I doing the things that are ultimately going to lead towards this metric that I'm being held accountable for? And not just that, that my organization relies on and both, you know, my friends, my employees, myself, all these things and in addition to the services and beneficiaries. But one of the things that I feel like is so important for our sector that you're talking about here too is like, how do we think about and meas. Other forms of engagement and relationships and connection. Not just engagement, not just like, did you open this thing I sent you? But really like points of connection so that we can start to understand in our data earlier in the year. Okay, look, you know, at this point last year, here's what the metrics were looking like in terms of engagement, connection, response rate, these things, and this is how much you ultimately raised at the end of the year. So you're on track, right? Or these things are a lot lower than what was happening last year. We need to think, take a step back, adjust, try some new things if we ultimately want to trend towards these outcomes at the end of the year. So how do you like, help your clients kind of prioritize tracking some of those KPIs, what are more of those KPIs so that they are not in November biting their nails.
- [19:35]
Mallory
Like, I have no idea what's going to happen.
- [19:38]
Clay Buck
So as always, let me start sort of with a story and then build into the answer, if I may. So three times a week I meet my trainer, I do 30 minutes on the treadmill and then I meet him for an hour and we do weights and strength training and all that. And I said to him a couple of weeks ago, I said, is three times a week enough to hit the goals that we've established? And he goes, he gives me that look. I'm like, it's not, is it? He Goes, no. I said, well, what should I be doing on the other two or three days a week? And he listed some things. And one of the things that he mentioned was, and you should really spend time on the stair climber. Well, see, in my mind, right, in order to achieve fitness goals, you have to work out for 30 minutes a day, at least 30 minutes of aerobic activity. And I looked at him and went, I can't do 30 minutes on a stair climber. And he goes, who said 30 minutes? Start with two. And it was one of those, like, I'm nervous about the stair climber. I hate the stair climber. I don't want to do the stair climber. And I have always looked at it as, I got to do 30 minutes on the stair. He goes, do two for two weeks. And it was a reminder to me of the concept of chunking. And this is my answer to your question, right? And it's also where I borrow honestly from you a lot in dysregulating, right? The nervous system and how we approach it. First, I am willing to bet that most of the people that you're talking about and to are getting pressure from their boards and their leadership to find new wealthy donors. This is what I'm hearing over and over and over again, Right? I want to help that so much, because that's not the answer. Mackenzie Scott is not the answer. Bill Gates is not the answer. Oprah is not the answer. The answer is, especially now, digging deep into relationships with your community. So as much as you can stand into the leadership of that. Right. Secondly, the next most important thing, and you're not expecting this answer, and neither is anybody else, the next most important thing is having a plan, is having a solid written plan. When there is a written fundraising plan in place, chances of success are 148% higher. Here's the thing that a plan does. Is it, number one, it sets the goal. So plans have to be based on the goal. We got to raise $1.3 million this year. Okay, that's your plan. Where are you going to do it? Right? And you list out the beginning of the year. Where is every dollar going to come from? Right. Secondly, it's stepping into, if you have a written plan and you've put it in front of everybody that needs to. Can I. No, I can't. I was going to be off color for a minute. There's a phrase that we use when everybody has to insert their opinion on something, right? So everybody has reviewed the plan and signed off on it, and everybody agrees to it. They are now. Everyone is now accountable to the plan. A lot of the year end or holiday scramble comes from getting to it without having a plan in place. So we get to November, we get to October, and we're trying to create the plan as we go. We're trying to build the plane while we fly it, and we're getting a whole lot of information from everybody else. Economy's bad. This is the holidays. We shouldn't be asking. And we're listening and absorbing that. And I find if we can go back to a written plan that we established and say, this is what we decided, this is what everybody thumbs up and approved. I have kept you apprised of the plan. We are sticking to the plan. Thank you for your suggestion. It's not in this year's plan. We'll add it to next year's consideration. But right now we're going to focus on what we plan. The reason I tell the story about my trainer is because that is the answer to your question about how do we approach it, how do we determine the metrics, et cetera? It's chunking it. You don't have to do $1.3 million from a thousand donors in one month. You got 12 months to do it. You don't have to fix every single record. You don't have to fix all those duplicates in your database overnight. You can take 30 minutes a day and fix 10 duplicates a day. You can deputize your team. Hey, we're all going to take, or your co workers or whatever, we're all going to take 30 minutes this afternoon and we're going to clean 10 records each, okay? And then you start to see the incremental results, right? If we're going to talk about specific metrics, the other thing too that I see is we try to measure too much, right? We're trying to measure total dollars and average gift and cost per dollar and lifetime and, and, and, and, and, and, and the metrics to measure come from the goals that you establish in your plan. All right, so if you're setting a $1.3 million, I'm just using that number just for example, right? You're setting a $5 million goal. Well, what does that mean? Is that 1.5 million from five major donors? Is that 1.5 million From a mix of foundation, corporations, individuals? And then underneath that, what's that mix? Right? Because those are very different strategies and very different tactics. It's, and that's what diversifying that we hear so much about is about Right. So therefore, we got to raise $1.5 million. We're doing that from a mix of foundations, corporations, events, and. Well, now I've got my four categories where I know. Okay, so individuals. Well, we need a thousand donors. Let's say 1,000 individual donors. Well, that informs our metrics. How many new donors? How many renewing donors? What's important to us? Do we need to be in acquisition mode or are we in reactivation mode? Those are different structures, different approaches, different strategies, and therefore, that informs the metrics. So I'm always a little hesitant to say you should measure this because what you measure relates to your goals, and not everybody has the same goals. Now, I definitely do think that donor retention is a core metric, a core KPI that everybody should be looking at. It is cheaper to retain a donor than it is to acquire a donor. Period. End of discussion. Any way you look at it, right? Whether major gifts or acquisition, it is cheaper to retain than it is to acquire. So donor retention, to me, is a core metric that everyone should. That's the only should I'm going to give. Everyone should measure. Right. But other than that, it's what matters most to you? Sorry.
- [25:37]
Unknown
Yeah, okay. That. I think that's really, really helpful framing. And I really appreciate the intentionality between your goals and what you're measuring. And I can totally relate to the measuring too much. Like, I feel like that's a trap I've gotten into as a fundraiser, as a business owner, where I'm like, no. I'm like, okay, well, I'm going to figure out a way to all these metrics later. I know I will. So I'm just going to start to, like, you know, figure out how to track it all now, and then later I'll figure out how to digest it. But I'm not really taking that intentionality between, like, what's the metrics I should be looking at every single day and making sure that the reason that I want to look at them every single day is because they are so ingrained in the goal that I'm already thinking about every single day that the metrics inform how I feel about that goal.
- [26:26]
Clay Buck
And where I'm at to that point. You know what? I'm far, far, far more interested in measuring. Come in on Monday and make a list. Here's the five donors I'm going to call this week. Here's the 20 donors I'm going to email this week. Here's the five letters of intent I'm going to get out this week. Like, set the Goal of activity and let the results come, right? And then you get to the end of the week on Friday and you check them all off and you go, I called seven donors and I sent 25. Wow. Right. And again, all due respect to our CRMs, we, we overcrowd our dashboards, you know, because we think, like you said, we need all these numbers. Well, maybe we don't. Maybe we just need average gift and retention, you know, maybe we just need to keep track for ourselves of, of how many emails I sent, how many contacts I made. Oh, what's that? Hold on. Ask me a question because there's, I'm going to find a quote that is relative to what I just said that I think you'll love.
- [27:20]
Unknown
So I'm curious, like, okay, so those are the metrics around kind of like our behavior maybe that we're tracking. And then what you're saying is that in terms of the other kind of like donor engagement behaviors or relationship building behaviors, those would be tied to the goals that we have around connection points. So for example, if we wanted to measure that, we are deepening connection and I hate all of these terms, but with our mid level donors, right, then the metrics we would be looking, looking at would be sort of engagement response metrics, attendance at events, all related to that group, comparing it year over year, right? You'd be like, okay, we started these initiatives, we've done, here's what's happening on our end, action wise in terms of either outreach or personalization, things like that. And then here's the response that we're seeing in terms of how this is impacting the behavior of our mid level, of our mid level donors. Are they sharing more of their story with us? Are they coming to things more because of these things? And then we're measuring those activities throughout the year and then ultimately we're going to see at the end of the year how that impacts their investment and involvement in the organization.
- [28:35]
Clay Buck
And we're able to, with the tech that we have now, we're able to measure, with the tech that we have now, I become the old guy in the corner, right? He's fancy schmancy. I mean we can see engagement things. How often did they click on our website? How long did they leave cart abandonment? You know, did they open the email? Did they click throughs? All of these are good indicators and many of our CRMs do already track them. And every one of them is something that informs us. We also live in a world where third party data, that is data that we can add to and append our records is so plentiful. So, you know, a traditional wealth screening like we talk about, but hey, it's 20, 20, 25. And wealth screenings have gone far beyond what they used to be of just wealth. And now it's much more about behavior and identity and philanthropy and all of that. So, you know, we can append data to it. And as somebody that, you know, really, really believes in and uses third party data a lot, I know it's expensive, I know it's time consuming. I know it's one more thing to add to the plate and do what you can do, you know, I mean, again, I started fundraising in 1996. Our database of record at the time, I promise you, was if you had doubt about what was in the computer, it was go to the card file. And you did. We had a big file. It was kept under lock and key, and there was a three by five card in every file that had how many contacts, how many? This, that and the other that, you know, in handwriting. And if you didn't know, you want to. And my point in saying that is we did just fine. We did just fine with name, address, giving information. Right. All of this other stuff is great. It's great. And if you can add it and use it, do it, because it's going to get us closer. Here is the main thing. The main thing is, and this is a study from Areva from a few years ago that donors indicate that they would be willing to give more. 10%. I'm not going to get the stat exactly right, but donors would be willing, like 148 or 136% of donors would be willing to give more for a personalized experience with a charity. And they indicated they would give at least 10% more. So one of the very best things that we can do is get salutation right, if we can get salutation right. And honestly, that first acknowledgement of gift receipt is the best way to do.
- [31:08]
Unknown
It, to confirm it.
- [31:11]
Clay Buck
Yeah. Dear Mallory, thank you so much. And we get hung up on receipts. We do. And we do need to send receipts. Right, I agree, but I'd much rather get a warm and fuzzy thank you letter out in 48 hours that says, dear Mallory, thank you so much. We've received your gift. We are putting it to work right away. So you know that your intent for wayward wombats is going right to work right away. In the next few days, we will get your receipt we can use for your tax purposes. But we just wanted to say thank you first of All. And secondly, to confirm that we have your information correct, how would you like for us to address you? Do you prefer Mallory or Ms. Erickson? Right. Like, let's put that power in the donor's hands of telling us what we want to be called and stop taking names off credit cards. Everything that we do in terms of processing and capturing data is about acknowledging that relationship. I get so many letters addressed to Dear Thomas because that's my first name. I never put that in a giving form, never. Which means it tells me they're taking my name off the credit card. So it's simple. Things like that here I want to go back to before we get totally away from it. And I realize I've gone all over the place today talking about measurement. Anybody that's known me for a minute knows that I am a Henri Nouwen reader, fan, whatever, Jesuit, monk, theorist, theologian. He wrote a book called A Spirituality of Fundraising, which is phenomenal. One of his quotes. Here's the question to ask yourself in measuring metrics. Did I offer peace today? Did I bring a smile to someone's face? Did I say a words of healing? Did I let go of my anger and resentment? Did I forgive? Did I love. These are the real questions. And if I think if we can take some of that framing into setting our metrics, retention's great. But what's going to drive retention is those five phone calls to donors that I make this week. What's going to drive retention are those five handwritten notes that I get out before the end of the week. Those little things that we can set aside. 15, 20 minutes, stop worrying about the whole and focus just that for 15, 20 minutes a day. Whatever it is, it doesn't all have to be done all at once.
- [33:14]
Unknown
I think that's such important advice because we're talking about sort of building deeper, more connected relationships, and we're trying to balance this human kind of. I don't want to say the word slow, because I don't feel like connection is sort of always slow, but like this really, like, intentional process with speed and efficiency. And then we find ourselves at this, like, a little bit. I think of this tension point of, like, what I love about what you just read is I hear this intentionality, I hear this slowness. I hear this consciousness around how we're treating people, how we're being in relationships. And yes, I think you've given so much today about how we do that sort of at scale, by thinking about data and using data to inform our ability to show up that way for people at scale, because we can't keep it all in our head. It's impossible. And so. But I also just want to sort of acknowledge the, what I think is a really natural tension of how it feels inside of us to be taking this, this slow, human connected process and trying to do it at scale. And I think maybe there's a piece that, you know, I'm thinking about this for the first time, like really absorbing what you've said and what you read of just of acceptance for us. That makes sense, that it feels a little bit abnormal, right? Or it feels different, like that we're trying to marry these things. But just because it feels uncomfortable doesn't mean it's wrong, right? And doesn't mean that it isn't possible.
- [34:47]
Clay Buck
Can we just acknowledge that, in my opinion, fundraising is a weird thing to do because our whole job is about living in the middle, right? We, on one hand, we are hearing in many cases some of the worst stories of people and of human existence. Anybody that works in animal welfare will tell you that the stories you hear about animals just, just, it destroys your soul, right? And on the other hand, we're expected to work with the highest, most emotional, most beautiful thing about humans, which is generosity. And we have to live in that middle, right? And our job is to connect the people that need with the people that can and want to help. And we've got to be splitting both because we also have to live in the middle of transactional numbers, crunching budgets, goals. And we have to do this thing that looks like sales and feels like sales and looks like marketing and feels like marketing, but isn't either one, and do touchy feely, goopy human relations stuff. And our finance director wants us to not be goopy feeling, touchy feely relations. They want us to be data driven. But we're human. It's a lot like it's a lot. And the only way I know to get through it is to chunk it. I know I've talked about that, but just chunk what you have to do. When you got to crunch data, shut the door, work from home, whatever you can and can do. 30 minutes, I'm going to do 30 minutes, I'm going to crunch this data. I'm going to clean this right now. That's what I'm going to do. Or I'm going to track metrics, or I'm going to determine budget goals, whatever it is, right? And keep some separation in those roles. Because what matters most, what matters most is that the beneficiary gets served and the beneficiary gets served because we are bridging the gap with the donor. And donors don't care about our missions, our strategic plans, our budgets. They care about the person or the thing or the situation on the other end of the mission. And our job is to bring the two together.
- [36:59]
Unknown
Okay, that's such a good way to wrap this up. Tell everybody thank you for all of this.
- [37:06]
Clay Buck
All of this, everybody.
- [37:08]
Unknown
No, no, sorry. We tell everybody where they. Where they can connect with you, learn more, work with you. I just, my brain is spinning on. On all the knowledge. I just want to thank you before I handed that over.
- [37:20]
Clay Buck
Yeah. On social media, primarily on LinkedIn. I'm, I'm everywhere is T. Clay Buck. You can also find me at nextriverfundraising.com nails clay@nextriverfundraising.com but either of those places. Yes.
- [37:32]
Unknown
Thank you. Thanks for walking through this and thanks for naming that at the end that. Like. Yeah. And it's okay that we feel uncomfortable and it's okay that we feel like we're walking this. We are tightrope between these two different worlds. And maybe the best way of approaching that is. I love that. Is that's a big piece of the bucketing and the sort of maybe, you know, segmentation in our brain to be able to occupy those different worlds that we sit at the intersection of. So I think that's such, such wise words. Thank you so much.
- [38:02]
Clay Buck
Thank you.
- [38:08]
Mallory
I hope today's episode inspired or challenged you to think differently. For additional takeaways, tips, show notes, and more about our amazing guest and sponsors, head on over to mallory.com podcast and if you didn't know, hosting this podcast isn't the only thing I do every day. I coach, guide and help fundraisers and leaders just like you. Inside of my program, the Power Partners Formula Collective. Inside the program, I share my methods, tools and experiences that have helped me fundraise millions of dollars and feel good about myself in the process. To learn more about how I can help you, visit Mallorykson.com PowerPartners last but not least, if you enjoyed this episode, I'd love to encourage you to share it with a friend you know would benefit or leave a review. I'm so grateful for all of you and the good, hard work you're doing to make our world a better place. I can't wait to see you in the next episode. Fundraising doesn't have to feel like a solo battle. My book what the Fundraising Embracing and Enabling. Enabling the People behind the Purpose Offers practical strategies and frameworks to help you navigate the challenges of fundraising with ease and impact. And with our free discussion guide, you can deepen learning and collaboration with your team or book club ready to transform the way you Fundraise? Head to Mallorykson.combook to order your copy today anywhere books are sold and you can grab the guide there too.