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What the Fundraising
243: When You Care, They Know: The Quiet Strength of Consistent Outreach with Jill Vorndran
00:39:33
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- [00:00]
Jill Vorondren
Who wants to do something for the long term that where the definition of success doesn't match your intrinsic understanding of what your role is and where it just feels like you're coming from a place of scarcity, that if you're not winning, you're losing, and that it isn't fun or joyful like that. And so if we're incentivizing the wrong pieces of the work and just instilling the operating from a place of fear, of course people are either going to leave our industry or they're going to try to find a home someplace else where maybe it's a little bit different.
- [00:40]
Mallory
Hey, my name is Mallory and I'm obsessed with helping leaders in the nonprofit space raise money and run their organizations differently. What the fundraising is a space for real and raw conversations to both challenge and inspire you. Not too long ago I was in your shoes, understanding, uncomfortable with fundraising and unsure of my place in this sector. It wasn't until I started to listen to other experts outside of the fundraising space that I was able to shift my mindset and ultimately shift the way I show up as a leader. This podcast is my way of blending professional and personal development so we as a collective inside the nonprofit sector can feel good about the work we are doing. Join me every week as I interview some of the brightest minds in the personal and professional development space to help you fundamentally change the way you lead and fundraise. I hope you enjoy this episode. So let's dive in.
- [01:34]
Host
Welcome everyone. I'm so excited to be here today with Jill Vorondren. Jill, welcome to what the fundraising.
- [01:40]
Jill Vorondren
Thanks Mallory. I'm so happy to be here.
- [01:42]
Host
I'm so excited for this conversation with you. Why don't we start by you just telling everybody a little bit about you and what brings you to our conversation and then we'll dive into all the good stuff.
- [01:52]
Jill Vorondren
Yeah, absolutely. So my kids always make fun of me when I describe myself as I raise money and I raise kids. Like that is my life. It's how I've spent the past 20 something years. I work at Covenant House. I've been here for 26 years in a couple of years as a, in a program role and ever since then as a fundraiser and a site leader. And right now I have the absolute honor of working with the 75 best people that I know who are frontline fundraisers, back office people, marketers, communications, communications folks and are doing the day to day lift these days, especially of fundraising to end youth homelessness.
- [02:34]
Host
Well, I know like we first got connected because of a post on LinkedIn about relationship based fundraising and kind of what gets in the way. But I'm wondering if you'd start and just tell everyone a little bit about your journey into fundraising. So I think a lot of folks will resonate with that too.
- [02:51]
Jill Vorondren
Yeah, absolutely. I know that you've described yourself as an accidental fundraiser, and only recently have I begun to even meet people who I think are on purpose fundraisers. Like, I think most of us sort of fell in love with a mission and then realized that mission needed to be supported by fundraising, and so decided, because of the love of the mission, to try to find some way to fall in love with fundraising as well. And so that was certainly my journey. I always wanted to work in a way that bridged the gap between people who were experiencing homelessness and giving them a safe place to live and a start at their life. And I just happened to find a place that worked with young people, which was a dream I didn't even know I had, but just that became my home and my place and the way I wanted to spend my life. And when I realized that there wasn't enough money to effectuate the work that we knew that we needed our young people to benefit from, I made the decision to. And it was, like, pretty arrogant. And I should have had maybe some kind of imposter syndrome, but I wasn't even smart enough to have imposter syndrome about it. And I decided to become a fundraiser. And I was really lucky to have an executive director who was an excellent fundraiser, especially in the art of fundraising. So I learned from him a lot about the art of fundraising. And then through, like, all the wonderful people in our sector, like you, who so, like, generously share their knowledge, I then, over these decades, like, piece together the science of fundraising through conferences, trainings, now podcasts, and just bumping into, like, the really smart people who do our work. And so I started in a really kind of scrappy mom and poppy department at our Covenant House site in New Jersey, and then over the years had some success in fundraising in New Jersey, and for the past 12 years, have been, in my role, leading the fundraising team for Covenant House International.
- [04:44]
Host
Amazing. And, yeah, I mean, it's so clear. You're such a DOT connector, too, so. And I love the boldness and the lack of imposter syndrome. I feel like there are plenty of the wrong people that have that. So I love when the right people have that and it leads to something like this. So the post that I had put on LinkedIn, that sort of got us talking was about this. The research that I've been doing here on what the fundraising over the last few years around the relationship between how we feel and what we do as fundraisers and some of my own learning from psychologists and therapists and neuroscientists about how stress shows up in the body. And when stress is present and that part of our brain is online and we're in fight or flight or free is, our brain actually shuts down its capability for all of these other experiences like connection and empathy and deep listening skills and the ability to be vulnerable. Right. Because we're in survival mode. And so our brain is like, you have two jobs, don't die and conserve as much energy as possible, which means don't move, no risk. Right. And so it kind of stops us from putting ourselves out there and all of these things. And my learning around like understanding how stressed out fundraisers are in general most of the time because of the pressure and uncertainty and, and system kind of around fundraising and then being like, oh, but we just tell them, like, just go out there and build relationships and feeling like we. But like they physically can't. What if they physically can't? And so that post really sparked something in you. So talk to me a little bit about that from your perspective.
- [06:22]
Jill Vorondren
No, it so did. I was so grateful for it because on our team we have talked a lot about the difference between transactional fundraising and transformational fundraising. And we have tried and I think sometimes we're sort of like pretending that we are only engaging in transformational relationships and authentically building long term, slow, genuine connections with our amazing supporters. But at the same time, we manage things in 12 month increments and have targets and are incentivizing key performance indicators and outcomes and even celebrating wins that are contrary to everything that it takes to build a genuine, long term, authentic relationship with people. And I had always just thought of it as a incentive issue that we were focusing on managing to the wrong end in mind. And then the light bulb that came when you, when you posted about the science of it just resonated so much because I know that in my early days as a fundraiser, I knew that quote moves management relationship was a holistic one that we're cultivating and soliciting and stewarding. And I was soliciting, thanking, moving on, and then 11 and a half months later doing the same thing again, which was so contrary to a authentic relationship. But it was because it was coming from that place of fear. It's that I have to hit these Numbers. Everybody in the organization is looking at me to lead the fueling of this mission. And if I'm not just actively out there collecting checks, then I'm failing this mission. And that's because the incentives that I put on myself were all related to fiscal year budget responsibilities and not to the long term fueling of a mission that now has been around for 52 years and sadly will likely be around for at least 52 more years as long as youth homelessness still exists. And so I really appreciated the thought that you put into sharing what really underlies the creation of that fear that prevents us all from looking at the abundance that's in our world and cultivating the relationships that help to leverage that.
- [08:44]
Mallory
Yeah, I mean, there's so much in.
- [08:46]
Host
There that I think as you're talking about it, I'm also kind of reflecting on a deeper level around that fear or stress response, that survival response. You know, when I think about the like, okay, don't die. Right. That's another reason why we maybe are prioritizing that transactional moment. Right. Because you know, if we're not in freeze, we're fleeing the discomfort of like sitting in the discomfort of the uncertainty of a longer term relationship. And we're fleeing that by trying to get some quick win or do where we get to check a box. And that is sort of like, okay, this is for my survival.
- [09:26]
Jill Vorondren
Yep. And I think it's one of the reasons why there is such a retention issue within our industry is like, who wants to do something for the long term that where the definition of success doesn't match your intrinsic understanding of what your role is and where it just feels like you're coming from a place of scarcity, that if you're not winning, you're losing and that it isn't fun or joyful like that. And so if we're incentivizing the wrong pieces of the work and just instilling operating from a place of freedom, fear. Of course people are either gonna leave our industry or they're gonna try to find a home someplace else where maybe it's a little bit different, but we're all kind of doing the same thing and doing it the same way. I think folks like you are really introducing a new way of thinking about it. But those of us who are doing the work day to day, I think are still burdened by the outcomes that we're expected to achieve in these short turnarounds that we just create an environment that is bringing this fear out of all these great people who are Just trying to serve missions.
- [10:33]
Host
Well, I've had a hypothesis about retention also very related to what you're saying, that I'm curious what you think about it.
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Jill Vorondren
I'd love to hear.
- [10:41]
Host
I've wondered if part of the kind of additional layer of fear of donor retention is that there's maybe, like, some subconscious fear that, like, a no from somebody who's given before or a lack of engagement from somebody who's given before is more personal than a cold outreach where someone doesn't respond. And I've, like, wondered if we see more resistance around retention activities. And even though we know, like, we are told till we're blue in the face, like, that is the best thing to do to actually meet your financial goals, even in a year. But I feel like there's maybe, like, a higher level of vulnerability with some of that. Do you think I'm onto something there?
- [11:27]
Jill Vorondren
I do. I absolutely do. Because if you're developing what is a true, genuine relationship, like, if their family member passes away and you're going to the wake, or if you know that it is their birthday and you are reaching out to them the same way you do with your friends and your family to wish them a happy birthday and doing all of those things that make the relationship real and authentic, and then this implicit, like, transaction that you have with that person then goes away or isn't as successful or is delayed in some way. I think there's an internalizing of that of, like, what did I do wrong? And are they rejecting me as a person and had a friendship, and all of a sudden that person stopped showing up for you? You would think, like, what did I do? And I think that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. And it's because we invest so much of ourselves in these relationships and. But I think, like, I've seen over time, like, the family's priorities change. You know, things are different. And it has nothing to do with the work that we did that make the relationships change or, you know, donors opt out of giving again. But I think if you don't see that through and stick with it, it's just gonna feel like, well, I failed. I lost this donor.
- [12:38]
Host
Yeah. And I actually sent an email out, like, my newsletter email out today about ghosting. And I was saying, do you feel like you're getting ghosted more than ever right now? And I was sort of trying to pull apart this. I think people are more overwhelmed now than maybe ever before. We're getting more notifications and outreaches in addition to being in what feels like a Very unstable environment around us, economically, politically, all those things. And so I certainly have text messages and emails of people I care about a lot that I just haven't had the time to, like, thoughtfully respond. And I know. I mean, I've put out content before about ghosting and begging foundations to not ghost fundraisers because it's such a dysregulating experience. Right. It's so our sense of belonging and identity, and it makes us freak out, like to. But I do think there's like, this really important component for us as fundraisers around resetting expectations about how many kind of prompts somebody might need in order to engage, or the fact that people are so busy and juggling a million things and we shouldn't jump to the conclusion that they don't care about us anymore. How do you, like, kind of hold that balance on the relationship side?
- [13:58]
Jill Vorondren
Yep. This happened similarly, I think, in those beginning months of COVID where we all weren't sure about whether it was appropriate to reach out to people. And would it be a violation of the genuine relationship that we're forming with people if we're suddenly putting our mission into their inboxes when they're already so burdened by everything else that's going on in the world? And. And I think it was also in the 2008 recession time. It was quite similar where it was like, we knew so many people were uncertain about what their job situation was going to be, what their wealth was going to look like, that I think a lot of fundraisers I know I certainly did sort of just backed off from this, like you said, like, this place of fear, of I have to freeze here because I don't know how to interact with this person in a way that is honoring the relationship that we have, but also, like, kind of doing my job. And so, like, what I've been encouraging our team to do, because we have been seeing, like, our share of ghosting. And I think it's because, well, people are busy, like you're saying, and I think there's an overwhelm where, you know, we're all super dysregulated. But I think there's also. If people are uncertain and a fundraiser is reaching out to them, and they love the person and they love the mission, they don't want to say, I need a minute to figure this out. And so they just put it away the same way, like I sometimes put away things I don't want to respond to. And what I've been encouraging our team to do is the same thing we did during COVID which is just stay in the game. Like we don't have to be soliciting all the time, but if we're checking in on how people are doing and we're creating this place, especially now, of like unity and purpose that I think people are just so hungry for and we're just kind of like seeing how they're doing as people and ensuring that good stories that are coming out of our mission are being shared with them, then they don't have to respond. Like, they just know that we're thinking of them, that they're still important to us, and that if you are in a long term relationship with people, as we coach our team to be, then we come out on the other end of this, you know, still connected to each other. That's what happened during COVID is even if people, you know, didn't feel like responding, couldn't respond, were overwhelmed with their day to day responsibilities. I saw in our industry and then like incidentally in my team, that if we stayed in there, we came out of the other side and still having a good relationship during that time.
- [16:23]
Host
And maybe as you're thinking about it right now, keep your fundraisers motivated throughout all of this because that dysregulation like is inside of us too. How did you support them around that?
- [16:35]
Jill Vorondren
Yeah, well, one is that we all have like a tricky relationship with key performance indicators, right. And what we did was allow people on our team the ability to recalibrate what they thought was reasonably expected of them given a change in circumstance between when we set those targets and all the intervening circumstances. And so we've made super clear to people then and then again now, just based on that previous learning that circumstances change and that there isn't, there isn't ever, but that there isn't, you know, a punitive dark side to key performance indicators, that they're, those are the questions, they're not the answers and that we can learn from them, but they're not a measure of our worth. And so that's one is just taking off the pressure and saying as long as your kind of outputs remain the same, that you're still reaching out to people, you're still doing your strategic interactions, you're still expressing, you know, the care and concern and sharing our mission with folks. If the outcomes aren't the same as they were six months ago or 12 months ago, then that's an environmental issue, it's not a you as a fundraiser issue. So I think that's one, I think two is really leaning into the superpower that is fundraising. Like, we literally ask people for money to give us their money with no tangible good or service exchange for that. Like, who does that? Like, that's a pretty ridiculous thing to do in the world. And yet we do it all the time and it is a power. And so I think when anything is reframed from being, coming from a place of scarcity to coming from a place of abundance, you can have a little more joy when you're thinking about it and feel a little bit more empowered in the work of it. And so by continuously coaching and reminding our team that in a world that right now feels so divided, and so I think for many hopeless, that we have this unique intersection of a mission where people are changing their lives and doing awesome things and showing such promise in the day to day. And then we get to bridge that and help other people see that who are just like watching the news and seeing the latest like bonkers thing that's going on. And so if they view that as a power and not as a burden, then I think it really helps to come from, to negate some of that fear that you're talking about and really just look at it as like, I am helping this person to see not just the good that's happening in the world, but the good that they caused to happen. And like, I think everybody can benefit from that, but I think it's just a mindset reframe of like, not just like picking up the phone and calling the next person, but thinking about it as the gift that you're offering to that person by being a disruption in what they're seeing and feeling all day and getting to see what we see all the time, which is like good people doing good things.
- [19:35]
Host
Yeah, I love that. I'm trained in BJ Fogg's habit and behavior design method and he talks about like he has this, the Fogg behavior model, which is in order for any action to take place, three things need to come together in the moment. Ability, a prompt, and motivation. And in his model, motivation is the relationship between hope and fear. And so what you're talking about is like, you know, when we're feeling paralyzed or overwhelmed or hopeless, just in the world in general, like as many of our donors are feeling a lot of why they aren't getting over their own action line, not even related to our organization, but taking any action or is because they are filled with fear instead of hope. And so we have this incredible opportunity to, to deliver stories of hope in terms of what's happening inside our organization, but also hope about what their action causes. Right. Hope that they have agency, hope that they are an active participant in creating the world they want to live in. And so I just want to sort of double click on everything you said because I think it's so true.
- [20:36]
Jill Vorondren
I love that framing of it because as we started out talking, like, if everybody is looking as a fundraiser at your role in the world being transactional and that if you're not succeeding, you're failing, and then that puts you into the space of like just not being able to act. If we reframe what the action is and it is to be the prompt, I love that, like the prompt as the motivator for causing good to happen in the world. Like, it just makes it so much easier, I think, to pick up the phone or craft that email in a way that lands from a place of, you know, just sharing joy and sharing goodness. Like, I know earlier in the calendar year when we were also getting used to what's going on in our country and the world, a bunch of us were always commiserating. Not even commiserating, I guess, more celebrating. Like, what if we worked someplace else? Like, what if we worked at like a bank or something? You know, this would just feel that much more hopeless and that much more of a burden because your day to day wasn't spent making good things happen in the world. And so we're spending 40 something hours a week doing that. Like, we can give people a little bit of that in their own lives if they are working at a bank or they are working insurance company or something and don't feel like the majority of their day is spent, you know, seeing and making good things happen. Yeah.
- [21:51]
Host
I mean, not that we don't work hard and our work isn't overwhelming and all the things, but I do think we're so lucky to like exist and work in a world where we're seeing impact, where we're getting to like live out our values in our work. Like, I just feel like we forget sometimes that so many other people either didn't take that opportunity or don't have that opportunity. And so giving is how they participate, is how they get to express those things. It's not just in their jobs.
- [22:19]
Jill Vorondren
Yep, exactly.
- [22:20]
Host
Yeah. Okay. So there's something that's really coming up for me as you're talking, which is like the role of somebody in your position or the impact that somebody in your position has on the stress of the team. And I've thought about this a lot, like, over the years, but it's really like, as I'm hearing you talk, I'm like, the background noise in my head is, oh, my gosh, her team is so lucky to have her. And, like, how different it must feel for a fundraiser to, like, work for a leader that understands this versus, and there's something here for me, around, like, you know, stress transfers. So when the CDO is so stressed about, and I'm sure you have KPIs that you are being held to task around on the leadership level, and then you are this buffer, right between that responsibility to the entire organization and the support of all these fundraisers that help realize the underlying goals related to those things. And I can imagine that you have to manage a lot of your own stress and kind of like, just transfer that burden to your fundraisers in a way that then throws them off course or has them focused on some shiny object. Right? You kind of have to be this, like, emotional buffer. And one of the things that I feel like I did, you know, before I understood so much more about this was, I think, like, when I was feeling really stressed, I just transferred that right on to other people fundraising. And now I'm learning about how much that screwed everything up. So how do you, as the leader, like, kind of, what do you do to stay, like, in your, like, leadership and manage your stress and sort of hold that balance between driving real results and understanding this component of it?
- [24:12]
Jill Vorondren
That's such a good question, Mallory. I think, I mean, well, one is, like, I'm old enough to have been doing this for, like, half my life now. And so that is a piece of it is that, like, I learned really the hard way many, many times that it's a leader's role to hold the anxiety and not to spread it. And so the beginning of the COVID time, during other, you know, stressful times, I really just made sure that I was taking care of myself as much as possible. Because if I know myself enough to know that when I don't do that, then that's when the anxiety just comes for me. And my team has worked with me for a long time, and so some of them know enough to know that I'm pretending to not to be okay and not always being okay, but nonetheless, like, if I'm creating that atmosphere of, like, we're going to be okay, like, we're going to come out on the other side of this, because we always come out on the other side of this. I'm only doing it because I'm not forsaking the time of caring for myself during that and then really, really trying to model that for others. And so I will, like, use all of, like, the team's tools to be able to say, like, my out of office is like, I'm going for a walk for 45 minutes. Not just so people know where I am, but also so I'm modeling the behavior to say, like, not only is it okay to take time during the day for yourself and to recharge and recalibrate yourself, but also it's, like, mandated that we're all doing that because our work is so important, that we need to be at our best to be able to do it. So that's definitely one is just caring for myself so that I can ensure that I'm not, like, inadvertently passing the anxiety on to others. So I can hear, like, my coworkers right now listening to this and being like, yeah, you're doing a great job of that. But. But I, like, I'm trying.
- [25:56]
Host
I'm trying to do it. I mean. Yeah. Well, I think the other side of it is showing yourself grace when you do.
- [26:03]
Jill Vorondren
Right.
- [26:03]
Host
Like, I don't. I.
- [26:04]
Jill Vorondren
That's a great point. Yep.
- [26:05]
Host
I think it's a lot to accept, expect a leader to never stress or to be a human being that needs space. And I think that's one of the hardest things about nonprofit leadership in general is just how isolating it can be, especially when you sit at the head of a department as that essentially, like, I think about it as, like, the middle of those timers, you know, like.
- [26:28]
Jill Vorondren
All the sand from the board and.
- [26:30]
Host
The organization is coming on to you, and then you have to. To, like, you're at that crux point, and then there's your team underneath you, and that's a lot of pressure. Like, that's a lot of pressure to put on one person. And so I think. I hope your team is showing you grace the same way you're, you know. Yeah, absolutely.
- [26:49]
Jill Vorondren
Absolutely. And my peers and our CEO, like, it's. Everybody understands that there's certain moments where, like, you know, as fundraisers, like, we sometimes get, like, a disproportionate amount of glory in the work. Like, I look at, like, my colleagues in, like, finance and people in culture, and it's like, their wins are not celebrated as much as my wins are, which is, like, a little bit of organizational inequity. Right. Like, people. There's a spotlight on the fundraisers all the time. But that works in the reverse, too, where there is an inordinate amount of pressure sometimes to say, like, okay, how am I expected to raise the same amount of money in an environment that may not be conducive to that? And I'm just lucky to have a boss and peers and a board that understand that and have some trust in us, and you know, that we're doing the best that we could do with what we have so that I think is clear. And I have friends and I have therapy and I have people I can talk to who I don't work with every day so that there is a place to, like, you know, past the anxiety to my. We get a daily cash report every day since, like, the moment I started my current role, where it's. It's. It's how much money, you know, we raised the day before. Right, I know. And my therapist said to me, like, that doesn't serve you. Like, when do you open it? Like, what does that change about your practice for the day? And I'm like, nothing. It just changes my mood. You know, it doesn't raising in any different way after that. But if it falls above or below some arbitrary number that I've expected in my head, then my mood adjusts accordingly. And so she's like, well, don't do that anymore. That's not helpful to you. So just finding, like, those little practices of saying, like, I don't need to ride the wave of this, like, I'm in this for the long term. Covenant House is in this for the long term, and there's gonna be good days and bad days. I think that's another. And the third is, like. Is just being a relentless, active listener. Like, I meet with everybody on my team at least once during the year, just one on one, to just hear where they're at. And we've. We've accelerated that during the past, what, four months, five months of this calendar year because of the way that people were feeling. Like, there's people on my team who felt like we should have a stronger voice in speaking out about some of the injustices that are coming towards missions like ours and towards the young people that we serve. And. And their opinions have differed from mine on how vocal we need to be in these moments and the upsides and downsides of that. And so just, like, creating space for people to have those conversations, I think has been a way where even if they don't agree with my decision or if they think that I'm playing it too safe or anything like that, that they have a spot where they can articulate that and where I can kind of share what my thinking is. Behind it and sometimes change my thinking based on what they're saying as well. So just, you know, investing in those relationships and taking the time to hear people, I think has been a way of keeping everybody maybe a little more sane than we would be otherwise.
- [29:47]
Host
Yeah, I love what you were sharing about that email. I mean, not. I don't love the email. I think I thought about the email and I was like, oh my God, I would not be able to.
- [29:56]
Jill Vorondren
I know.
- [29:57]
Host
But I think is also probably a sign of your, like, tenure that you can read that email and not have it impact your fundraising. Because I think for me, when I was fundraising, especially my early time, the way that things like that would impact my thoughts and beliefs about myself would then ultimately impact the actions I would take. Right. So I would be like, oh, I'm doing something wrong that's leading to that. So I shouldn't keep doing anything today because I'm clearly not outreaching in the right way. And I would get into this like negative self talk narrative. And so I'll say to folks all the time, you know, if you reach out to somebody and they don't reach back, if your self talk is like, oh my gosh, I said something wrong in the email, I did something wrong in the relationship. That's why they haven't gotten back to me in 24, 48 hours, then you are not going to reach out to more donors today. Yeah. And so there is this piece around, like, I love what you said around, like, pay attention to the things that are changing your mood, that are stressing you out, that are shutting you down, that are creating resistance in your work. Then I think there's some, like, depending on sort of where you're at in your, like, personal growth trajectory, there's some like self talk there around like keeping yourself in action despite some of those things or when you can, being like that thing is actually not helping me be the best fundraiser that I want to be. And so I'm going to recognize that I can't compartmentalize my stress when I look at that. So I'm just not going to look at it for right now.
- [31:26]
Jill Vorondren
Yeah, that's exactly. And I've learned, like my favorite form of procrastination is more planning because it feels like it's still productive. Right. It's like. And so that's what I would find myself doing, like when I had less experience was people that didn't work because yesterday was bad, you know, or this past week wasn't what we wanted it to be. So I Need a new plan. And. And then I would, like, stop what we're doing and not reach out to donors and not do what was. Not follow our already charted course that we invested time in and just do, like, more planning. And because it felt like it was safer. That's my freeze, I think, is I don't freeze and not work. I freeze and do other work that is not useful but feels more comfortable to me, you know, and. And so knowing that it's like, nope, just stay the course. Like, we have a good plan. That's just, you know, just because it didn't have the outcomes yesterday that we wanted it to, doesn't mean it's the wrong plan.
- [32:24]
Host
Ooh, we might have to have a part two about that piece. Because I think there's a whole thing about, like, easier fundraising really being the least effective forms of fundraising, but that create the least discomfort in our bodies.
- [32:38]
Jill Vorondren
So we do that.
- [32:39]
Host
I mean, the amount of things I did, from the chocolate sales to the coffee, like the, like the. To the Chipotle nights or whatever, that.
- [32:47]
Jill Vorondren
Were truly donor research, I have to know everything about this person's, like, fourth grade play before I could reach out to them and pick up the phone. But it feels productive. Like you're.
- [32:58]
Host
Exactly.
- [32:58]
Jill Vorondren
And safer.
- [32:59]
Host
And safer. Right. Because what if somebody brings up that play?
- [33:02]
Jill Vorondren
Yeah, yeah, but.
- [33:07]
Host
Okay, so I could talk to you forever. And we might have to do a part two, because I do think. I think that's such a good thing there. But I'm curious, like, for leaders before we go, for folks who are sitting in a seat like yours, what's your, like, top advice right now or top two things that you feel like folks should be thinking about in terms of supporting their fundraising teams right now?
- [33:31]
Jill Vorondren
Okay. I think one is do not back off. Do not divest. Do not play to the environment. That experience has shown our sector, and I know, has shown me that when our fear turns into freeze and that freeze leads to divestment, whether that's not spending as much on donor acquisition or it's canceling plans that we had because we're not sure how they're going to land with folks, that we don't come out of the other side as we would have otherwise, that the organizations that fare well in challenging environments are the ones who stay the course. And those that have to climb out of a hole are the ones that operated from a place of fear and froze their activity, froze their funding. And it doesn't mean throw good money after bad. Like, it has to be like, you know, Strategic investments and, you know, letting the data and the experiences lead. But when boards or CEOs encourage us to match the downturn in donations with a downturn in investment, it's just that much harder to come out of the other side. And there's going to be another side. There's always another side. Like our world is, is too good to think that this is our status quo. And so we just have to be ready for when things become more precedented and less unprecedented. And so that, because we know that they will. And the other, I think is just model self care so that everybody on your team feels permission to do the same. So not just like one is not avoid self care.
- [35:12]
Host
Right.
- [35:12]
Jill Vorondren
So make sure that we are taking care of ourselves, legitimately taking care of ourselves, but then also do it publicly to our teams so that they know that's their mandate as well. Especially our industry is very female heavy and we're the ones who I think are typically less inclined to prioritize ourselves over all the other things. And so we're the ones who are going to be inclined to neglect that. And then we're just teaching like the next generation that that's okay and expected. And so I've been trying to be very vocal about the care that I'm putting into myself and the days that I'm sick and not working and, and I think really demonstrating that to our teams is so critical all the time.
- [35:53]
Host
But definitely right now, thank you so much. That's such a good note to end this on. I'm so grateful for this conversation. I'll make sure that folks have links to your LinkedIn to connect with you and to check out Covenant House. Thank you for your leadership in this space. Thank you for how you're showing up as a leader of fundraisers. And I'm so grateful for all your wisdom you shared today too.
- [36:14]
Jill Vorondren
Oh, and back at you. You so generously offer wisdom and knowledge and connections to people that our industry just so needs. And so just thank you for investing in all of us in that way. Those of us who are doing the day to day fundraising, you know there isn't a path for that all the time. And folks like you who are offering all this knowledge and not knowing where it lands all the time, I think I just want you to know that it's landing on receptive ears and people are changing their practices because of what you're offering. So thank you for doing that.
- [36:43]
Host
Oh, thank you for saying that.
- [36:45]
Jill Vorondren
Of course it's true.
- [36:52]
Mallory
I hope today's episode inspired or challenged you to think differently. For additional takeaways, tips, show notes, and more about our amazing guest and sponsors, headline on over to Malloryerickson.com backslash podcast. And if you didn't know, hosting this podcast isn't the only thing I do every day. I coach, guide and help fundraisers and leaders just like you inside of my program, the Power Partners Formula Collective. Inside the program, I share my methods, tools and experiences that have helped me fundraise millions of dollars and feel good about myself in the process. To learn more about how I can help you, visit MalloryErickson.com PowerPartners Last but not least, if you enjoyed this episode, I'd love to encourage you to share it with a friend you know would benefit or leave a review. I'm so grateful for all of you and the good hard work you're doing to make our world a better place. I can't wait to see you in the next episode. The question I've been asked the most.
- [37:55]
Host
In the last five years is how.
- [37:57]
Mallory
Do you always know what to say to a donor? And the truth is because I've navigated donor conversations thousands of times. Unfortunately I had to learn what to say the hard way. Live with a donor in high stakes conversations. It was uncomfortable, messy, defeating and definitely led me to burnout. I want better for fundraisers, which is why I built Practivated, the first AI powered donor conversation simulator built just for fundraisers. With real time feedback, customizable scenarios and coaching from your AI guide, Coach Tivi, you can practice donor conversations in a safe, judgment free space. I want to help you build confidence, reduce stress and strengthen donor relationships all at the same time. Are you interested? Book your demo with me. Mallory Eric works in today@practivated.com demo.