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What the Fundraising
249: The Cost of Disconnection: Reclaiming Your Leadership Values with Kathy Archer
00:25:52
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- [00:04]
Mallory Erickson
What if generosity wasn't just about dollars? Neon1's latest research proves it isn't. The Generosity report reveals how 97% of donors, those giving under $5,000 a year, are the true backbone of nonprofit success. Discover how small actions build resilient communities and what your organization can do to strengthen them. Explore the full report@neonone.com Mallory.
- [00:33]
Kathy Archer
So when you're in alignment, what you say is what you do. I talk about it, what your list is and how you live that list. So I would say family's most important for me. Work, life. Balance is important for me. I'm here if you need me. Come knock on my door. And yet I was the one staying late. I was the one working on Sundays. I was the one when somebody said, oh, can I take some time off because my kid's sick? I'm like, really? Like today? Like, we really need you today. Right? So there was a disconnect. And so my list and what I was living were not aligned.
- [01:08]
Mallory Erickson
Hey, my name is Mallory and I'm obsessed with helping leaders in the nonprofit space raise money and run their organizations differently. What the Fundraising is a space for real and raw conversations to both challenge and inspire you. Not too long ago, I was in your shoes. I'm uncomfortable with fundraising and unsure of my place in this sector. It wasn't until I started to listen to other experts outside of the fundraising space that I was able to shift my mindset and ultimately shift the way I show up as a leader. This podcast is my way of blending professional and personal development so we, as a collective inside the nonprofit sector, can feel good about the work we are doing. Join me every week as I interview some of the brightest minds in the personal and professional development space to help you fundamentally change the way you lead and fundraise. I hope you enjoy this episode, so let's dive in.
- [02:02]
Welcome everyone. I am so excited to be here today with Kathy Archer. Kathy, you were one of, like, my first friends. I feel like when I started my coaching and consulting practice, we connected really early on, and I've always appreciated the content that you've put out and the way you think about coaching and leadership. So I'm so excited to have you here today. Tell everybody a little bit about you and your work and particularly what brings you to the conversation today.
- [02:28]
Kathy Archer
Yeah, I think you were one of the first guests I had on my podcast when I started my podcast, Mallory. So it feels full circle to come back here and be on your podcast. So, yes, I am a leadership development coach. I help Women leaders in the nonprofit who are drowning in their work, full of that self doubt and feeling like they're having to carry that all on their own shoulders, you know, like, oh my God, like I just, it's all on me. And I help them build their confidence, set boundaries and take back control of their leadership and life. And the work that I'm doing really has started to look at how do we do that. And I think part of it is skill development, and we're missing the skill development of leadership in the nonprofit sector. We move up the ranks from frontline into leadership without the leadership training. But part of it is also that we've not been taught how to lead from our feminine nature, from as women, where we've learned to lead through masculine role models, from old white guys who wrote leadership books 60 years ago. And so that's what has brought me to write the second of my books, Character Driven Leadership for Women. Just to start to look at how do we lead authentically?
- [03:38]
Mallory Erickson
Okay, so let's just start right there. Like, what are some of the key components of becoming a more authentic leader?
- [03:48]
Kathy Archer
Figuring out who you are. Okay, so we start our career, our lives. You know, let's start junior high. We're trying to find ourselves and figure out who we are, but then we get into college or university and we're trying to figure out what's the right way to get our career going. You know, we get the kids, the house, the job, and we conform to society and we sort of lose sight of who we are. We think there's a right way to show up. Right. I think about my own leadership journey and I very quickly learned you could talk about your kids a little bit, but not too much. And certainly don't talk about crafts or painting or that kind of stuff or what you like to read or, you know, I learned that there was, you know, you talk about politics and you talk about the contracts and you talk about maybe golf and going to the right vacations. I didn't take the right vacations either. Camping in a tent trailer wasn't quite the same as what everybody else was talking about. So I quickly learned there was a right way to do it. And you lose sight of who you are. So it's figuring out what are your strengths, your gifts, your talents, what do you value and what do those values mean to you? How do you use those values to make informed decisions to lead in this mission driven work that we do?
- [05:00]
Mallory Erickson
Okay, so for folks who are, how do you recognize, let's say you're in A leadership role. And around you are a lot of people saying that you're a great leader, but maybe you're hearing this and you're feeling like, well, maybe I am being a great leader that other people want me to be, but am I really realizing my leadership potential or being the authentic leader that I want to be? How do people start to, like, what are some things that people might notice in their daily experience or in how they're feeling? Or friction in their environment that might illuminate that there's perhaps some, like, incongruencies here?
- [05:40]
Kathy Archer
Yeah, friction's the key word. It feels icky. Like, you'll literally feel it in your chest and in your stomach. You start dreading going to work. You come home at the end of the day and it's like, ugh, Right? You just don't feel yourself. You've probably felt this when we used to work in the workplace all the time. You come home at the end of the day and you want to just take off work and just be yourself. And when you start to really feel like you're not being yourself at work, that's a sign. It's the thoughts in our heads, that train of thought, like, oh, my God, just get me through this meeting. Just get me through this next week. Like, ugh, if I have to do this one more time. Right. It's that ickiness that we feel that tells us something's off. And so while we meet the deadlines and we hit the targets. And that's what happened for me, Mallory. Well, I had two big leadership lows that I talk about in the book. But the second one, I had done really well. I had started to really grow my team, and we got this really big contract, and it stretched me and the team beyond what we could do. And so I started to slip in what my staff told me was my integrity. Twice on performance reviews, they said, kathy's not in integrity. And I'm like, what does that even mean? Like, you know, I'm doing the things. We got this big contract, we're meeting, all this wonderful stuff. How can I not be in integrity? And why is my staff pissed off at me? Like, what's going on here? And so that was one of the big signs.
- [07:04]
Mallory Erickson
Okay, so you talk about alignment in the book, which, you know is, like, one of my favorite words and things to say. So talk to me about the relationship between alignment, like, finding alignment and what you were just saying about integrity. Are those the same thing? Are they different how? Let's go there.
- [07:25]
Kathy Archer
Yeah, there's an image in my book. And it's like two lines going like this. So when you're in alignment, what you say is what you do. I talk about it, what your list is and how you live that list. So I would say family's most important for me. Work, life, balance is important for me. I'm here if you need me. Come knock on my door. And yet I was the one staying late. I was the one working on Sundays. I was the one when somebody said, oh, can I take some time off because my kid's sick? I'm like, really like today, like we really need you today. Right. So there was a disconnect. And so the my list and what I was living were not aligned.
- [08:00]
Mallory Erickson
Okay, all right. I want to get into this a little bit. In term, you have this other chapter or part of your book, part of chapter one, I think, and the subtitle is what do Emotions have to do with It? I think or something like that. What Do Emotions have to Do With It? And so you're talking here about some uncomfort feelings that are likely happening when you're out of alignment and all the different things that you're talking about. And one of the things that I've been exploring a lot, and I do this in my book too, is like how we identify the difference between discomfort that is coming from a place of pushing ourselves into more alignment. But perhaps we're making a decision in the moment that is we're not people pleasing or we're doing something else that makes us uncomfortable. But it really is in integrity, it really is in alignment with who we want to be. But we still feel uncomfortable, we shouldn't run away from that. And then other types of discomfort that illuminate for us that something is out of alignment or we are out of integrity or we do really hate leadership. And because I feel like that dread grumble in our belly that can come from fear of I'm doing something different than I've ever done it before. And it's creating this fear and this resistance in me. And it can feel very similar to the dread and the discomfort of like this isn't for me. So talk to me about how you help folks navigate that nuance.
- [09:29]
Kathy Archer
Yeah. So first, the book says repeatedly self reflection is the key to character development. You have to do the self reflective work to figure out what that is in the pit of your stomach. Second, we spend most of our time, especially as women leaders, trying to shut our emotions off. So rather than tuning into them to figure out what is that we're trying to shut them off. We numb, right? We just like I don't want to feel. You hear this. I'm sure, like I want to go into the meeting and I just don't want to bring my emotions into the meeting. But my dear, those emotions are what guide you. So how do you figure out what it is? I will often say to people, you know, what's the difference you feel in your stomach from I'm afraid, I'm excited, I'm nervous, I'm hungry, and I have to go to the bathroom. They are all in your stomach area, right? And if you don't slow down and tune in, you don't know. So that's the key. Is this self reflective work to be going, okay, my stomach feels icky. And then what you're saying, right, but am I moving closer to alignment? Is that why my stomach feels this way or am I moving further away? Right. It's that sitting down and going, what's happening? That I feel this, right? Or literally something's physically wrong with me that that's what I'm feeling in my stomach. Right? How do you know if you never do that self reflective work?
- [10:48]
Mallory Erickson
Okay, well how, if folks are doing that self reflective work for the first time, how likely is it that that type of self inquiry will be honest?
- [10:58]
Kathy Archer
It may be honest at a certain level, but it may not go down the layers deep enough. So again, in the book I have a tool I call the infinite leadership loop. And it's this back and forth, like a, like a figure eight. It's this, I go into this inner self reflection. I go, okay, I think it's this, I go out and I engage with my people. So it's pause, ponder, pivot, proceed. And then people, I go back, I have the conversation, I deal with the issue with this stuff that's driving me nuts. And then I come back later in the day or on the weekend. I go, okay, how did that work? Right? And then it's this back and forth that really helps us get into those layers and layers and layers.
- [11:36]
Mallory Erickson
Okay, all right. And do you think people can do this on their own?
- [11:41]
Kathy Archer
Yeah, I do. I think they need help and I think that frameworks help. I think they can start it on their own. Some people need help, like coaching from you or me or a zillion other coaches out there or therapy or different ways of getting into it deeper, but they can certainly start it and see if that makes the shifts. It's the willingness to develop that growth mindset that's key. Right. Like am I willing to dive deep? Am I willing to develop my leadership? It's the intentionality that's going to make the difference. The leaders that I've had the most success with, and I'm sure you've experienced this as well, are the ones that are willing to do the work. So can you do it yourself? Yeah, if you're willing to do it. If you're willing to sit down on a weekend and journal, if you're willing to cry, yell, scream, if you're willing to fail, try it again, do it again. Yeah, you can do this. You and I both have seen hundreds and thousands of women that have done it.
- [12:41]
Mallory Erickson
Donors don't just give money. They show up, share stories, volunteer, advocate, and build community. The generosity report from Neon1 celebrates these everyday acts of generosity and give nonprofit professionals the tools to turn one time givers into lifelong supporters. If you want to build a thriving, resilient community, start here. Neon1.com backslash Mallory yeah, I mean, what's coming up for me, like as you're talking about this is, you know, we say that term a lot. Do the work. And I feel like when I think about what that means is like a big part of that is being able to look at ourselves and being able to look at the un shiny parts of ourselves. And you know, it's been interesting. Like I've been reflecting a lot lately on my own leadership journey and, and ideas of self confidence or self efficacy. And I've thought a lot about how much more self confident I feel. While I'm so much more aware of all of my shortfalls. It's not because I think I'm perfect. And actually I'm so much more aware of all of my imperfections than I was 10 years ago, 15 years ago, when I had so much less confidence. And I feel like there's this like relationship that we believe would happen where it's like if we really look at ourselves and we really let ourselves see the things that we're not good at or the things we don't love about ourselves, that's going to lead to a reduction in confidence. But there's this part of like loving yourself through it or still believing you're worthy of love or leadership or whatever it is, despite the fact that you are blank, you know, and I could. My laundry list is the longest there. And so I'm curious, like, how do you think about that process around the work of the tenderness of looking hard at our growth areas. And some of them I say growth areas, but honestly If I'm super honest, there are certain parts, certain things I don't love about, don't like about myself that I'm never gonna grow in. Like, I'm just like, that is me. And I can work really hard to mitigate the negative impact on other people related to that part of me. But, like, it is, at the core, me. And so not all of it are also, like, things that are on my, like, growth list. Right. And so. But how do we hold that? How do you see leaders be able to look at those things, love themselves through it, accept themselves through it, and the role that that plays in building this version of them? Being the leader you're talking about.
- [15:28]
Kathy Archer
Yeah. When you were first starting there, it made me think of that post that's going around about, what does sit with it mean? And there's the chair and. Right. I talk about that when those emotions come, they're hard emotions. They really are. And we, especially as moms or as busy women, we don't always have the space to process those emotions. And yet we must create the space to process those emotions. But you don't have to, like, process them all at once or all at the same time. And it's more like a door that you can, like, crack open and look at and maybe some tears come down, and then you slam the door shut, and another time you, like, open it up and you fall down on the floor and sob. I don't mean crying is always the way that it has to be done. For some, it might be, you know, writing, like, angrily and getting some of that out, but it's a journey that we have to create space for. And so if that's going for a drive and screaming in the car, go for a drive and scream in the car. Don't do it in front of your kids. Right. I used to leave at lunchtime, and I would drive up this hill and I would sit there at lunch and deal and process. I would go for a walk and process some of those and try and always have enough time to clean myself up before I got back to the office. Right. But when that wasn't the case, I might get up after everybody went to bed, which I know we need our sleep, and I am such an advocate for sleep, but if that's the only time you can process some of it, you need to create space to process it. And it's a journey, not like a one and done.
- [16:52]
Mallory Erickson
Okay, so talk to me about that piece around readiness, because I feel like this was something I also really tried to get across in my book, right. That this is a journey, this is a process, this is not a one or done thing. But there is something about writing a book that has a beginning and an end. And, you know, and we have other courses and programs that have those feelings too. And so I'm curious, like, how do you help people kind of hold that balance in terms of what you were saying at the beginning? That like, they're disconnected from their authentic self and so they're waiting for maybe this moment of like complete reconnection. But it doesn't really work that way. Right. It's like this reorientation sort of connection. So talk to me about how you encourage people to hold that process by.
- [17:41]
Kathy Archer
Creating goals and short term goals. So we often create these like year long goals. And I'm like, three months. And don't ever have your goal be finished, make it messy, and always in draft. So the goal is evolving. And in that goal, you're creating things that you're working on around your character, which isn't what we're usually thinking about goals. So if I was learning initially, when the staff told me I lacked integrity, one of the first things I needed to do was understand integrity. So the goal for that three months was simply like, go to the dictionary and look up integrity, figure out what integrity actually means. And then when I realized it had to do with lack of alignment with my values, I'm like, so what are my values? That was that next step. Okay, what are my values and what do they mean and how do they show up? And so I talk about creating your own curriculum, like, what are you doing and how are you learning it and creating those goals that you're working on every single week. And back to self reflection is key to character development. I talk about the mandatory weekly review. You have to come back every week, five, 10 minutes. It doesn't have to be like this big thing where you're like, okay, I'm working on being more compassionate, or I'm working on having more patience, or I'm developing this ability to forgive and forget sometimes, or forgive. So what am I doing this week on that? Like, how am I developing that? And oh, I always forget the president's name that had the chart. He had a chart where he had like 10 or 12 character traits and he would check them off every week when he was working on them. And it's literally like that. We're just like, okay, how did I do that this week? Or how will I do that this week? And it's just teeny, tiny, like make it manageable in shorter term goals.
- [19:20]
Mallory Erickson
Okay, I love that. What questions should I be asking you that I'm not asking you?
- [19:26]
Kathy Archer
Oh, good question. So I think it is, why do this work? Right? Because like you say, sometimes we've already identified that we are doing okay in leadership. There's nothing wrong. Why do this work? And I think one is just for what we were talking about earlier, because you're not feeling your full self, you're not happy, you're not living your full life. And I think we've sort of, especially as women, we're like, okay, but I've got the kids and I've got the career and I gotta look after this and da da, da, da, da, da, da, I'm okay. And some of us don't believe we deserve more or that we shouldn't take the time to do more of that. And I think the work helps us be stronger on our own sort of belief in ourselves so that we're there for other people and that we can do the work we're meant to do. We're in mission driven work, the whole work of the nonprofit world. It's messy, it's difficult, and we're following the contracts and the fundraising stuff that we're supposed to do and checking off all of the documents that we have to. But are we really getting to the heart of the work? Sometimes I think we just miss that piece. And so getting to that, if I'm my best self, not only am I better for me and my family and better for the organization as well. And I think that we need to pull in some of the new ways of leading again. We've shut off the feminine traits, not just women, but men in general as well. The world is leading in a very masculine dictatorship to some or very strict or there's this right way to lead. I think we need to find some new ways to lead.
- [21:02]
Mallory Erickson
Ooh, okay. I sort of asked this earlier on, but I want to sort of bring this up again. How would you suggest people handle when how they want to lead is incarcerated conflict with how they're getting positive or negative reinforcement around them for leading. Like, I'm thinking about what you just said and I'm thinking about the, like, how we wrestle with that alignment internally. But then there's this whole external component that's happening. Right. And so what if your board of directors does want that masculine feeling leadership? Like, how do you navigate this?
- [21:37]
Kathy Archer
Delicately, slowly, compassionately, with grace? Again, I think it's a journey because I think first you have to identify totally unhappy with your leadership style, but it's not as much as you can be. It's not fully you. And so when you can step back and kind of go, okay, so if I was leading in the way that feels most aligned with me, feels like I'm using my strengths, then what impact could we have compared to what we have now? Right. And so then when you start to look at that, I think what happens is you start to show up more confidently. You actually start to have more impact. And while it may take other people a little bit of time to come around to it, sometimes they will start to go, oh, that is what we need. Other times you find that there's not an alignment, and it might be time to move on. And maybe you kind of knew that, but weren't ready to admit that, or maybe it's just a surprise for you and everybody else, too. And that's hard. And it's a choice that you have to make sometimes about, do I want to stay here and do this for the rest of my life? And the answer may be yes, or the answer may be, for now, we have bills to pay, and that's what I have to do. And that's okay. That's where that compassion and grace comes in. Other times you're like, no, I'm actually at the point where it's time to move on, or it's time for me to push back a little bit and see if I just push back a little bit if there's wiggle room. But again, the more intentionally and the more consciously you do that, the less you're going to be five or ten years down the road really hating your job, because the more you resent it, the bitter. The more bitter, the bitterer you get. It's not going to do the organization any good either.
- [23:19]
Mallory Erickson
Okay, thank you for all of this. Where can folks go to follow you? Get the book, all the things. Tell them all the details.
- [23:26]
Kathy Archer
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you can follow me anywhere on social Athyd, as in Diane. Kathy D. Archer, LinkedIn weekly newsletter. Instagram's my favorite place to hang out, so follow me there. The book is available on any place you buy books, so go find it. You can also go to kathyarcher.com and then you'll find the book there and all of the resources that go with it there.
- [23:50]
Mallory Erickson
Amazing. Thank you so incredibly much for joining me today, for all of your wisdom and just for being a relentless advocate for people to find themselves and be themselves and lead as themselves. I'm so grateful for the work that you do.
- [24:05]
Kathy Archer
Oh, and right back at you, Mallory. Thanks for having me on the podcast. And thank you for being that voice in the sector as well for standing up and being our best selves.
- [24:19]
Mallory Erickson
I hope today's episode inspired or challenged you to think differently. For additional takeaways, tips, show notes, and more about our amazing guest and sponsors, head on over to Malloryerickson.com podcast and if you didn't know, hosting this podcast isn't the only thing I do every day. I coach, guide and help fundraisers and leaders just like you inside of my program, the Power Partners Formula Collective. Inside the program, I share my methods, tools and experiences that have helped me fundraise millions of dollars and feel good about myself in the process. To learn more about how I can help you, visit Malloryerickson.com Last but not least, if you enjoyed this episode, I'd love to encourage you to share it with a friend you know would benefit or leave a review. I'm so grateful for all of you and the good, hard work you're doing to make our world a better place. I can't wait to see you in the next episode. The question I've been asked the first most in the last five years is how do you always know what to say to a donor? And the truth is because I've navigated donor conversations thousands of times. Unfortunately I had to learn what to say the hard way. Live with a donor in high stakes conversations. It was uncomfortable, messy, defeating and definitely led me to burnout. I want better for fundraisers, which is why I built Practivated, the first AI powered donor conversation simulator built just for fundraisers. With real time feedback, customizable scenarios and coaching from your AI guide, Coach Tivi, you can practice donor conversations in a safe, judgment, free space. I want to help you build confidence, reduce stress and strengthen donor relationships all at the same time. Are you interested? Book your demo with me Mallory erickson today@practivated.com demo.