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What the Fundraising
250: From Panic To Purpose: Leading With Intention In Uncertain Times With Maria Rio
00:27:58
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- [00:00]
Mallory Erickson
Foreign.
- [00:04]
Mallory
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- [00:33]
Maria Rio
A lot of people are struggling with inflation still, and they have a lot of intersectional identities that are actively under attack. So if it's appropriate for your organization and mission aligned to do so, I would say keep fundraising. If it's not, and for example, you digitize a collection of books and it's not a very pressing time for you to start fundraising and you're not as big of a risk, then it's a good time to start doing some advocacy and collaboration with some organizations are most at risk.
- [01:06]
Mallory
Hey, my name is Mallory and I'm obsessed with helping leaders in the nonprofit space raise money and run their organizations differently. What the Fundraising is a space for real and raw conversations to both challenge and inspire you. Not too long ago I was in your shoes, uncomfortable with fundraising and unsure of my place in this sector. It wasn't until I started to listen to other experts outside of the fundraising space that I was able to shift my mindset and ultimately shift the way I show up as a leader. This podcast is my way of blending professional and personal development so we, as a collective inside the nonprofit sector can feel good about the work we are doing. Join me every week as I interview some of the brightest minds in the personal and professional development space to help you fundamentally change the way you lead and fundraise. I hope you enjoy this episode, so let's dive in.
- [02:00]
Mallory Erickson
Welcome everyone. I'm so excited to be here today with Maria Rio. Maria, welcome to what the Fundraising.
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Maria Rio
Happy to be here.
- [02:09]
Mallory Erickson
Let's start with you just introducing yourself to everyone. Tell them a little bit about you, what brings you to our conversation today.
- [02:15]
Maria Rio
Great. So my name is Maria Rio. My pronouns are she and her. And I've actually been fundraising for I think like 14 years. It's getting up there. I started as a face to face fundraiser for a company called Public Outreach. So I don't know if they're in your neighborhood, but basically in my neighborhood it's all about wearing the vest and like stopping people to do like a quick monthly giving pitch. So I did that for four and a half years for 11 different clients and after that I just like got into nonprofit proper. As a former service user, I felt like I really Had a really unique story to tell, and that's what I've tried to do. So really focus on how we treat our community, how we design programs, how we talk to our donors, how we position our organizations is all really, really interesting to me. And I think that we're aligned in a lot of ways. So I'm so excited to be here. Just one more thing about me is I run my own fundraising consultancy called Further Together. If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. Right. And I'm also the host of the small nonprofit podcast. So this is a really interesting world's colliding for us.
- [03:22]
Mallory Erickson
I know. I love it. And I mean, I follow your writing on LinkedIn and stuff too, and always feel so aligned with the different topics that you talk about from the relationship based perspective and the ethical fundraising perspective and thinking about donor behavior and fundraiser behavior and all the sort of cognitive psychology components. So there's. It's gonna be very to like, keep us to our time limit here today. But I'm curious, like, so thinking about all of those things coming together is we're in a moment where I feel like all the playbooks we've had in nonprofit previously are feeling whether or not they are completely upended. Are feeling upended given the current, like, political and economic environment. And I'm finding myself like, kind of revisiting the. Some of the tactical strategies that I've given nonprofits in the past and thinking about like, okay, how do I kind of rewrite those for the moment that we're in? Not to like, gosh, there's gotta be a better saying than throw the baby out with the bathwater. But like, I'm like, what's a better way of saying that phrase? But like, finding basically the application of the things of the tools that we do feel like are effective, but current climate. And I'm curious, like, I know you focused a lot on giving really actionable advice for fundraisers. So, like, what is some of the core guidance that you're giving people in the moment that we're in?
- [04:45]
Maria Rio
I feel like this really reminds me of fundraising through Covid and a thing that people did then that I don't want them to repeat now is to like, stop fundraising. So at the time they were like, it's an appropriate time to ask. People don't have money X, Y and Z. Well, let me tell you, that's always the case. A lot of people are struggling with inflation still, and they have a lot of intersectional identities that are actively under attack. So if it's appropriate for your organization and mission aligned to do so, I would say keep fundraising. If it's not, and for example, you digitized a collection of books and it's not a very pressing time for you to start fundraising and you're not as big of a risk, then it's a good time to start doing some advocacy. And collaboration with some organizations are most at risk. My top tip, though, for all organizations of any size is to pause. We naturally come into this thing called action bias, where we want to move things forward, we want to do things that make us feel busy and that makes us feel like we're in control. And doing something is not actually strategic. Right. It's just busy work. So if you're sending really long emails to your major donors saying, like, please, we're in trouble, is that the most strategic way that you can approach that relationship? And most of the time the answer will be no. So the first thing to do is take a step back, take a deep breath, get a hold of your financials, and then strategize. Don't just, like, start posting on social media like, we're desperate for donations, blah, blah, blah. Like, that could be a great strategy, but make sure that it's strategic instead of reactive.
- [06:21]
Mallory Erickson
Okay, so there's. There's this piece of what you're saying here that is about sort of consciousness also, right. It's like, not just about kind of like, okay, I'm feeling really anxious. I want to feel a higher sense of control. So I'm just gonna like, spray fire out to everybody right now. So what do you feel like it takes? Like, if they're trying. If, you know, if an organization came to you and said, okay, we know we need to say something to our donors right now. We know there's a lot of wonder or questioning about how this current environment is going to impact our work or will it impact our work and our funding. We don't have all the answers yet. Like, it's going to take us a while to kind of put together a full strategy. But we don't want to wait that long to communicate with them. We want to be intentional. We want to be conscious. How would you recommend they do that?
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Maria Rio
So I think I would have two strategies. One would be one to one, and one would be one to many. For your one to ones, that's usually your larger gifts or your more loyal donors. So those are easier gifts to bring in. Right. Well, let's say you're not sure if this person is secretly a Trump supporter or completely against your mission, Some other thing. Something that I say is, again, bringing it back to psychology is you play into those donor Personas, right? So you're speaking to someone who has given you money in the past and you say, you know, things are really wild right now and some donors are kind of like very scared. They don't want to stand up to fascism. They kind of want to put their head in the sand. They just kind of abandon the work and abandon the community and. But other donors have really stepped up. They've doubled their giving. They said, I'm all in. They're doing multi year support. They're saying, like, I believe in the work that you do and I'm going to stand by you. So I'm wondering like, where you stand in that. Right? Because it's so closely tied to your beliefs. A donor will move to protect their identity, their chosen identity, so they'll move towards. I'm the person that stands with you. I'm not the person that puts my head in the sand. Here's my gift.
- [08:21]
Mallory Erickson
Okay, interesting. And I totally agree. I mean, I did this as an executive director. When I would get stressed, I would like lean way too heavy on logistics. I'd be like, okay, here I need to tell you exactly what my step by step, like when we think strategy, we're like, oh, we need to tell them like every move we're going to make and every kind of logistical piece to the puzzle when, when really you're right. Like the things that matter to them is like, is my identity aligned with how this organization is even thinking about this problem or approaching this problem or talking about the problem? And then they want to validate their identity through their alignment with your organization. So I mean, I'm hearing, I'm like sort of taking that away from what you're saying too, which is like, don't overthink. Not that you're not being transparent, but the need to share every little micro component because that's not what is resonating with them anyways.
- [09:17]
Maria Rio
And also like, just think about what is your most important thing. The most important thing if you're doing a fundraising ask is the ask, right? So really you don't want to bury the lead, right? Like, you really want them to understand what the meeting is about and what you're going to be doing. Because consent is sexy and they're there for a fundraising conversation. They're not there to listen to the development of your strategic plan. So I always recommend selling the value alignment and not selling the product. And, you know, you can see that in advertising and corporate world all the time. They're not selling, like, drink this very toxic can of Coke. You know, they're saying, like, people who drink Coke are cool. Like, they do sports, they do X, Y and Z. Right. So you're selling that, like, identity, that future vision that you share versus, like, each aspect of, like, your own leadership or of your. Or of your teams.
- [10:09]
Mallory Erickson
Yeah. So if you had folks, I mentioned this before we hit record, that folks are feeling so, like, stressed and maybe scattered and overwhelmed that I'm hearing from more fundraisers than ever that they're sort of sitting at their computer just paralyzed to take action. And I know we talked a little bit about, like, we don't want to just be reactive. We don't want to have that sort of just action bias because it helps us feel a sense of control. We don't want to do that, at least in a way that then is sort of irresponsible around our communications or our relationships. But I'm curious if you have any strategies around, like, just being able, like, helping people sort of get into motion. Right. If they're like, okay, being strategic, like, I can't even access that part of my brain because I feel like every day I try to create a new plan, something changes. And so they're sort of like grit, like, holding tight and holding back from wanting to go too into planning mode. What is something that is sort of always safe to do, always beneficial to do, no matter what?
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Maria Rio
So the first thing that you have to do is put on your own air mask before you can help others. Right. So if you're feeling, like, completely overwhelmed and can't take a step forward, then I would suggest you listen to that, take a step back, recharge your spiritual, physical, mental energy. Other people will pick up the mantle. Right. Because there's been times where I've been completely terrified over the past three months, and I'm a little bit quieter. But there's other people out there who they're feeling very energized at that point. And when they kind of are less energized, like you are back and ready at full energy to do the work that needs to be done. So that's one aspect. The other one would be continuous storytelling that's always appropriate, that's always helpful, that always aligns impact, that always aligns with what your donors are looking to hear and what your community wants to talk about. So actual storytelling and listing out the problem, result, and impact of what you're Trying to do, right? So problem solution, result, impact of what you're trying to do. Focus on one problem. Don't focus on every problem under the sun right now because there's too many. Make it measurable, right? Make it not a drop in the bucket. Make it something that they understand and they can solve. So you're not solving cancer, you're buying this child like Justin Bieber sheets while they're in the hospital. Like it feels a lot more measurable and specific, right? We always know about smart goals. So telling stories that offer one problem, one solution, a result in an impact, long term impact is always, always appropriate and always welcome.
- [12:52]
Mallory Erickson
So I really appreciate this and there's something that's coming up for me here around like how we the difference between too much logistical complexity that I was talking before versus operational transparency. So I've talked a lot in different speaking things about how we can build trust by bringing people into micro moments. So I feel like one of the biggest pressures that's on us as, as you know, organizations is to be able to show impact, like achieving our full mission, right? It's like we're working on huge issues. That $25 is not solving a crisis in your community. Like we need to be honest about that and but one of the ways I feel like we let people in around impact and really like walk with them through our impact stories is through operational transparency. And I am curious like kind of how you think about this. One example I give a lot is actually not a nonprofit example, but is like rideshare apps. So I live outside of San Francisco, so I remember when Uber started and when Uber started, like you would call a number and you would see if an Uber car was going to show up and you would wait and maybe after 10 minutes you'd be like, I don't think my call went there through. And you'd call again and you'd be like, hey, like is a car actually coming? You know, and then you'd wait another 10 minutes and you'd see. And now those rideshare apps, you open the app, you see where all the cars are around you. You request a car, it tells you one minute until we connect you with your driver. Then it shows you where your driver is. It shows you the whole route until it comes and picks you up. And the whole time it's telling, updating your arrival time. I think about that process and what it's doing is it's building trust with us, right? It's building trust with us that the car is coming. We are Going to get to our location on time. And so I'm often thinking about, like, how can nonprofits do this? Like, how can they like not become uber? But how can they build those like micro moments of connection and trust building by telling their donors and here's where we are, here's where we're going, here's how we're getting there in these, like without it becoming overly logistical. Does my question make sense?
- [15:14]
Maria Rio
I feel like there's a lot of ways to like show that impact and show that journey without getting too logistical. And I actually have this piece on my website, like, prove your impact 5 ways to quantify the unquantifiable. Because same thing with my cancer example. Right. You're not always going to have like, we ended cancer stories today. Right. So yeah, I think getting and sharing stories is really helpful in doing that, showing the work. So a lot of people will resort to stock images if they don't have something that they immediately think of. But you can take a picture of your desk. There's little things that show the work being done. You can talk to your partner organizations and bring in their stories and their pictures. You could take pictures of your volunteers or your staff.
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Mallory Erickson
Right.
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Maria Rio
Another thing that you could do is do pre and post program surveys as well. So you can quantify at least part of the journey. Like it's not reducing social isolation 100%, but at least part of the journey and celebrate those wins as they happen.
- [16:15]
Mallory Erickson
Okay. You brought up something in that that I'm curious about. I can imagine because of the scarcity mindset in this sector in general, but especially right now when things are feeling like there's increasing need and perhaps less support in certain areas. This idea of like compet. And I remember I wrote about this in my book, like Getting in trouble one time when I was on a donor call and I talked about something one of our partner organizations was doing, like, you know, with us and sharing a little bit. My boss got so mad at me, like how I ruined it because now this donor was going to go and support this organization too and da, da, da, da, da. And I know I'm not the only one who's been reprimanded for something like that. How do we support organizations? Like, I think we're probably aligned in this, that like collaboration and coordination is more important than ever. It's also something our donors want. Like the data shows that our donors want us to be working together. And most donors support five to seven organizations anyways. So it's not a like if then situation. But how do you support organizations to, like, adopt that mindset?
- [17:26]
Maria Rio
You know, it's funny, I had a conversation with Ross Savras from C3, and she talked about this in the podcast episode that we did together, but about how some of the organizations that she was working with, they were sharing, like, one HR person between the three of them and sharing that cost. Right. And sharing, like, the cost of putting on an event and bringing all their donors together to, like, build community. But I think that people who are into competition, like, they're already losing. Like, who are you competing against? A food bank? A children's charity? Like, what a loser. Also, your boss sounds super stable, you know, totally very normal. But, yeah, like, it's just like, when you're thinking about competition, you're not thinking about community. And it's not kind of the people that I want to be around. Right. Competition doesn't help. Our service users actually working together does and offering those holistic supports. Because everyone has such an intersectional identity that trying to address piecemeal things is what got us into this mess in the first place.
- [18:27]
Mallory Erickson
Do you have any advice for, like, somebody who is in a position like mine where they have to manage up to a leader to help them get out of their own scarcity mindset?
- [18:41]
Maria Rio
Yes, but it sounds like with your particular boss, they might have been a little bit of a micromanager or a bully, which are the hardest people to manage up. If you're not completely confident in yourself and in your, like, self worth and self esteem, that could be a very dangerous game. So tread lightly. Document, document. Take screenshots. Make sure that you email back whenever they say something. Like, I had this boss. He's like, can you send every blog post that we put up to Josh from the media? I'm like, who's Josh? Does he have a last name? What media? Why are we sending him blog posts? Right. And he got really upset. So just, like, always ask questions and put it in writing. Those are kind of my biggest tips for people who micromanage or bully. The biggest thing that they have over you is, like, this feeling of control and this feeling of making you feel bad. So if they can't do that, they'll move on.
- [19:36]
Mallory Erickson
Interesting. Yeah, that's really good advice. And they were a total bully. Horrible in so many different ways, that being one of them. But I agree, and I feel like now more than ever, I love hearing those stories about the events and organizations coming together and doing things together. I mean, I think there is, like, clearly donors want that too. And I think it says a lot about the confidence of an organization to demonstrate their partner organizations and to say, like, here are the specific and particular areas where our organization is critically important to this ecosystem and this whole ecosystem working together makes helps us achieve all of our connected goals.
- [20:18]
Maria Rio
You know, that's something that I've been thinking about with the community piece because Canada helps. They're a large, like, CRM platform here in Canada. Canada released this study earlier this year that said, like, donors who feel community will actually donate more and more often. So I wonder how nonprofits can actually use that information to build communities. So whether that's participation ribbons, every time they show up to something, like a volunteer shift, or like a monthly donor cohort that actually has a space to talk to each other.
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Mallory Erickson
Yes. Well, that's really interesting because that's another thing I've been recommending recently is like, virtual opportunities for donors to come together and even talk about some of the challenges that the organization is facing or, you know, that the organization can help facilitate without having all of the answers but saying, hey, we want to come together to in community and talk about this. We want to share how we're thinking about it. We want to hear how you all are thinking about it. Because I totally agree. I mean, community, belonging, connection, that identity piece that you were talking about earlier, it's like, this is how I feel like this time as much as ever, if not more than ever, we're really trying to figure out, like, who are our people? Like, who are our people, where do we belong? And then those are the places we're gonna invest in because there are homes.
- [21:37]
Maria Rio
I do wanna say that nonprofits usually are not able to find who their people are because they're not willing to say what they believe out loud. So how are you gonna find people who have similar beliefs if you're not speaking their language right? And you're not going to spots that they hang out because you're not even thinking of them. You're thinking of, like, I want to target the general public. Why the general public sucks. Target your specific audience. Right? Totally.
- [22:05]
Mallory Erickson
Right. Yes. If you are bland, like, you are for nobody, like, if you try to be something for everybody, then you ultimately are for nobody. And you are bland in a way that nobody can remember who you are and what you stand for. And yeah, it's scary sometimes to be bold and to get that mean email or whatever it is. I have plenty of them over the years. But it's like, my people know that they are my people. And yeah, once In a while, somebody ends up on that list that probably shouldn't have been there in the first place. And good thing we know that so there's no surprise later.
- [22:38]
Maria Rio
Plus, if they self select, oh, it gives you more time with the people who want to go deeper.
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Mallory Erickson
Yes, yes, 100%. 100%. I mean, I feel like no. And like that's such sacred clarity. You know what I mean? It's like, thank you for being so clear about who you are and the fact that we are not aligned. Because it gives me the ability, exactly, to your point, to focus on the people I am in alignment with. And every organization has plenty of those people. What they need is help prioritizing and sort of understanding who's really there for the right reasons and who's really aligned with them.
- [23:15]
Maria Rio
But also, like, it feels kind of like a bait and switch from the charity side. Like, oh, yeah, you're cool enough. Give us your money. And then actually, my values don't align at all with the organization. Right. And you just took my money and let me give you my money when you knew that I'm completely unaligned.
- [23:33]
Mallory Erickson
Wow, that's a really important point that I don't think actually gets talked about enough. Because that's the other thing, right? We want, after we make a gift, to have our identity revalidated, that we made the right decision. And what a bad experience to feel like I was duped or I made the wrong decision. And yeah, at that speed, we could have a whole other episode around, like, kind of the critical nature of, like, marketing and fundraising practices being aligned. So there's no act, quote unquote, acquisition tool that is misaligned with then ultimately the donor community at large that we're cultivating and supporting.
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Maria Rio
Yeah, I'm a fan of being like who you are very loudly. I know it's not always the safest. And you know, I did move out of in house roles to be able to do this. But still, like, even if you can offer resistance to any of the things that are happening poorly, even if you can jam up the gears a little bit, like, I think that that's helpful.
- [24:31]
Mallory Erickson
Yeah, 100%. Okay. I could talk to you forever, but I feel like we've given folks some really, really great takeaways for right now. I'm so grateful for your time, folks. Go to Follow along, subscribe to your podcast all the Things and check out that blog you mentioned too.
- [24:49]
Maria Rio
So that blog post will be on. Go further together ca. You'll also find the small nonprofit podcast episodes listed there. I'm Most active on LinkedIn though, so if you want those daily practical gems of what you can do to improve your fundraising, governance, communications, that's where you can find me. And currently I'm in a competition with 38 other consultants to see who can grow our LinkedIn following the most. So please help me.
- [25:17]
Mallory Erickson
Oh my gosh. I love it. I love a good challenge like that. That's so fun.
- [25:21]
Maria Rio
I'm like in seventh. I need help.
- [25:24]
Mallory Erickson
Okay, so definitely go follow Maria on LinkedIn. Share her page with everybody so that we can help her get this bump. Awesome.
- [25:33]
Maria Rio
Much appreciated.
- [25:34]
Mallory Erickson
Thank you so much for your time and your wisdom today. I'm so grateful.
- [25:39]
Maria Rio
Thank you so much for having me and I'm excited to have you on my podcast.
- [25:42]
Mallory Erickson
I can't wait. I can't wait.
- [25:50]
Mallory
I hope today's episode inspired or challenged you to think differently. For additional takeaways, tips, show notes, and more about our amazing guest and sponsors, head on over to Mallorykson.com podcast and if you didn't know, hosting this podcast podcast isn't the only thing I do every day. I coach, guide and help fundraisers and leaders just like you. Inside of my program, the Power Partners Formula Collective. Inside the program, I share my methods, tools and experiences that have helped me fundraise millions of dollars and feel good about myself in the process. To learn more about how I can help you, visit MalloryErickson.com PowerPartners Last but not least, if you enjoyed this episode, I'd love to encourage you to share it with a friend you know would benefit or leave a review. I'm so grateful for all of you and the good hard work you're doing to make our world a better place. I can't wait to see you in the next episode. The question I've been asked the most in the last five years is how do you always know what to say other to each a donor? And the truth is, because I've navigated donor conversations thousands of times. Unfortunately I had to learn what to say the hard way. Live with a donor in high stakes conversations. It was uncomfortable, messy, defeating and definitely.
- [27:13]
Mallory Erickson
Led me to burnout.
- [27:14]
Mallory
I want better for fundraisers, which is why I built Practivated, the first AI powered donor conversation simulator built just for fundraisers. With real time feedback, customizable scenarios and coaching from your AI guide coach Tivi, you can practice donor conversations in a safe, judgment free space. I want to help you build confidence, reduce stress and strengthen donor relationships all at the same time. Are you interested? Book your demo with me, Mallory erickson, today@practivated.com demo.