← What the Fundraising
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- [00:00]
Tamara Jackson
Foreign.
- [00:04]
Mallory Erickson
This episode is brought to you by Idonate. Their Donor first giving suite, including mobile pop ups, a B, testing recurring prompts makes it easy to convert more donors faster, easy to set up and publish with no tech team required. Launch custom giving forms that sync seamlessly with your CRM smarter data, better donor journeys. Check them out@idonate.com.
- [00:33]
Tamara Jackson
Money really is exchanged when value is created. And when I think about it that way, it takes all of the negativity out of it. Because if my focus becomes how can I create value for someone to such a degree that they are willing to exchange money for it? Then that aligns with my entire belief system, right? How can I be a blessing to someone else and in exchange for that, they are willing to give some of their money?
- [01:06]
Mallory Erickson
Hey, my name is Mallory and I'm obsessed with helping leaders in the nonprofit space raise money and run their organizations differently. What the Fundraising is a space for real and raw conversations to both challenge and inspire you. Not too long ago, I was in your shoes, uncomfortable with fundraising and unsure of my place in this sector. It wasn't until I started to listen to other experts outside of the fundraising space that I was able to shift my mindset and ultimately shift the way I show up as a leader. This podcast is my way of blending professional and personal development so we, as a collective inside the nonprofit sector can feel good about the work we are doing. Join me every week as I interview some of the brightest minds in the personal and professional development space to help you fundamentally change the way you lead and fundraise. I hope you enjoy this episode, so let's dive in.
- [02:00]
Welcome everyone. I am so excited to be here with Tamara Jackson. Tamara, welcome to what the fundraising.
- [02:07]
Tamara Jackson
Thank you so much for the opportunity to be here with you and hopefully to share something that will help the audience.
- [02:13]
Mallory Erickson
Yes, I'm so excited to dive in. Why don't we start with you just telling everybody a little bit about you and your work and then we'll dig in.
- [02:21]
Tamara Jackson
Yeah, so one of the things I think that's really cool about this show is that the whole thought process is bring people who are not maybe in the nonprofit world to share their expertise. So that made me feel right at home. I am a former corporate veteran, spent 25 years in the banking space and half of that time I was in the side hustle culture. So I've had a number of different entrepreneurial pursuits, but I've always had a passion for giving back. You know, that's something that was instilled in me very young so regardless of what role I had, I was always looking for ways to volunteer as an entrepreneur. I've done projects to give back, and I'm a person that not only gives time, but also gives money. So this is a topic that we're talking about today that is very near and dear to my heart and one of my passions. The reason why I love operating at the intersection of doing good in business is to show that we can do both. So a lot of the gifts, skills and talents that I've developed in both arenas, in corporate and in the entrepreneurial world, I love being able to put those to use to advance great causes. So I'm looking forward to the opportunity to unpack that and talk with the audience today.
- [03:43]
Mallory Erickson
Yeah, I love that. When I was learning a bit about you, one of the things that I got so excited about was this blend of ethical sales strategies, while also kind of unlocking, I think you said, like hidden potential. Am I remembering that right for growth? And I feel like there is so much of that inside the nonprofit sector. But this sector is also plagued by a lot of scarcity beliefs that I think hold us back from being as creative and imaginative and abundant in our thinking about what might be possible. And I think some of that has to do with some maybe deep, deep seated feelings around can money be really intertwined in the movement of money with my ethics and my values? And particularly when we see in our world a lot of ways in which money can corrupt ethics and values? I think non profit folks are constantly kind of grappling with that. So why don't we start like at a high level and just tell us, like, how do you think about that intersection? What are some guiding principles? And for folks who want to adopt, maybe more like a kind of a better money mindset, not to use that, like overly used terminology, but are maybe feeling held back around the ethical side of it?
- [05:02]
Tamara Jackson
Yeah. So I think one of the things that helped me, and I can identify with this way of thinking. Growing up in church, there was a lot of talk about money and what it does. And some people would even say money is the root of all evil. And what I had to learn over time is that money really is exchanged when value is created. And when I think about it that way, it takes all of the negativity out of it. Because if my focus becomes how can I create value for someone to such a degree that they are willing to exchange money for it, then that aligns with my entire belief system. Right. How can I be a blessing to someone else and in exchange for that, they are willing to give some of their money. Right. And I think if we can start thinking of it that way, then it actually fuels the mission that many of the listening audience has. The reality is that in order to fund that cause, in order to make a difference, you need money to do it. Right. There's a lot of things that we can do without money, but at the end of the day, to accomplish the grandest vision that we have, we're going to need money to do that. So I think the question becomes, how can I create value for people to such a degree that they are willing to donate to the cause that I have? And when we look at it that way, it totally flips the conversation. And the organizations that I've seen do this well, really start with that question is, okay, what does the audience that I want to be a part of this mission and to support me financially, what is it that they are looking for and how can I deliver that? And if you give something that someone truly values, they don't have a problem financially supporting what you're doing.
- [06:58]
Mallory Erickson
Yeah, okay. I love that. And that definitely shifts. Like, that's something I've. I talk about a lot in fundraising is like recognizing the value that we're bringing to the table, right? Because whether that value is an experience or a feeling or a validation of somebody's identity and what they get to believe about themselves, those are all things that are really valuable to us as humans. And it sort of requires us to untangle this belief that, like, money is the only thing of value. Because I feel like that's some of what happens in those moments where we don't realize that it is actually a value exchange and we're bringing value to that relationship, too. Is we sort of like shortcut, and we're like, well, money is the only thing of value, and that person has money, and I need money. So they're the one with the value. And I'm trying to figure out how to get that value from them. And that is just never going to feel Good.
- [07:50]
Tamara Jackson
Yeah, no. 100%. You know, as a person that actually enjoys being generous, it actually makes me feel good to support causes that I believe in. So I would encourage our viewing and listening audience, don't downplay that there are people that genuinely love to give and you are creating opportunities for them to do that. I think the key, though, is to really understand what, as you have hinted to, what is the motivation behind their giving and if you can really understand that which you're only going to Be able to do, putting my business hat on, you're only going to be able to do that by spending time with them. Not in a setting to necessarily get a donation, but just spending time with them, understanding their motivations, their lifestyle. How did they get to where they are, and why is it important for them to give back? The more that you understand that, the more that you will be able to create value for them. This takes me back to an event that I attended last year and I had the honor of sitting there as someone that had given millions and millions of dollars to a single cause, kind of unpack their philosophy on giving. And one of the things that I walked away from in that conversation is that one of the things that really motivated him to give in this instance it was to a church project, is because that pastor was willing to spend time with him. He was willing to go to dinner with him, he was willing to get to know him as a person. And, and what unfortunately had happened in so many instances is that people were so focused on getting the donation that they forgot to see that he was a person that had challenges just like everyone else does. Yeah, maybe money wasn't something that he had to deal with, but there were other things that were going on in his life. And because that pastor was willing to get to know him on a personal level, it became a no brainer for him to support the church's cause.
- [09:57]
Mallory Erickson
Yeah, I love that. And that sort of like, interconnection and this reminder that money is one way we express our values. And so we're always looking for opportunities to, to do that. And I think sometimes in the nonprofit sector, we kind of take for granted what it gets to look like to live every single day in our values, doing the work that's the most important to us. And that in fundraising, we're giving people an opportunity to do that in a way that sort of like, works for them and aligns with them. What do you think, like, when you think about kind of ethical sales strategies? I feel like there's a piece of this that is like an unlearning piece, like that kind of has to happen at first. So I'm curious, like, what are some of the things that people do or feels that feelings that people have that make sales unethical or feel unethical, that need to be kind of like undone for folks who then want to adopt more ethical practices?
- [10:55]
Tamara Jackson
Well, I think that the number one thing is to take away the image that many of us have of sales, because I think whenever we mention the word Sales, the vast majority of people get an image of someone that's kind of a shyster, someone who's getting over on someone else, someone that is pushing someone into something that they really don't want. And if that is the image that comes to mind and we've all had those experiences, so I'm not saying that that doesn't ever happen, but if that's how we look at the entire profession, if that's how we look at the process, it's going to be really difficult to sell anything because we're coming into that experience with very negative feelings. Feelings that would make us literally want to run away from those situations and not be a part of them. If you're a person that values people, that wants to help others, the last thing that you're going to want to be associated with is something that pushes people to do something they don't want to do. So I think what we have to do is start to think of sales as service. And it goes back to that thought process of this is value creation. So I'm actually serving this person by introducing them to something that is going to help them reach their goals. And I think if we can embrace that line of thinking, I'm not pushing something on them that they don't want, that they don't need. No, this is something that they actually value. And all I am doing is introducing that solution to them and giving them an opportunity to choose if this is the best path for them.
- [12:38]
Mallory Erickson
I love what you're saying and I'm curious, how does this change this sort of like mindset and way of building a relationship in, in sales change how we let people go? Like, because when I'm hearing this, I'm like, okay, this feels really good as a salesperson too, right? To say, like, if this isn't the right fit for them. Right. You're looking for alignment. And if there isn't alignment, if this isn't going to solve their problem, if this isn't the right fit for them, okay, no problem. Like I want you to get your problem solved, right? And if, and maybe it's me, maybe it's my tool, maybe it's not. And then I feel like we get some scared that we're not going to hit our numbers or we get in our head about our own self doubt or we feel our own sense of scarcity and we start to say things or behave in ways or put pressure on people that kind of does the opposite of what you're talking about. So talk to me about that Nuance like not just how people can show up ethically, maybe in that first moment, but then what does follow up look like that stays in alignment with this kind of service perspective?
- [13:42]
Tamara Jackson
Great question. And I think it starts with making sure that we're really getting clear on the objection as we're having that conversation. And that's whether it is a person or in my world, we, we often leverage technology, but I think where we often go wrong is we just get a no, we don't probe any further. We internalized that as rejection and now we're kind of down in the dumps. This didn't work out. Let me move on to the next one. But the reality is that all of us that are watching and are listening have experienced moments where we actually did want something. We believe that we needed help, but there were still some questions about whether this is the right solution. Is this the right person? Is this the right time? So I think one of the things that will help us is to ask some additional questions in a way that's not confrontational, but just clarifying. So for example, something as simple as just to clarify, is this about fit or about timing and allowing the person to say, oh, you know what, now that you mention it, I actually have a lot going on right now and I can't process this. So maybe it would be better if we revisit this at a different time. So now we have more information and now we know it's not never we're going to do it, it's just not the right time. So now I can put it in my follow up queue for 60 days from now, circle back and now see if this is the right time. You know, I think all of us have had experiences where with time we were able to get clarity about what we wanted to do and who we wanted to do it with. So another thing that I would encourage people to do is don't forget what it's like to be a consumer, to be the person that's not selling. Right. Because all of these things play out in our own lives. But for some reason, when we're the one kind of move the sales process along, we forget what it's like to be on the receiving end. We've all said no to someone and gave a quick answer, but there was really more to it. There's always been times where we didn't do it now, but six months from now we did that. Don't forget that the person that you're looking to get a financial commitment from is a person and they have stuff going on in their life. And the best way that you can help them and do it in an ethical way is to really care about them, their needs, and get clear on what's the best next step. Is it to release them or is it to circle back at a later time?
- [16:21]
Mallory Erickson
Yeah, okay, I love that. What do you do then? If somebody, if they don't respond, where do you put that person? So you ask them a clarifying question like that, you never hear back. Do you close it? Do you say, okay, they're not engaged, they're not interested. What's that process like?
- [16:37]
Tamara Jackson
Yeah, so I think it's a combination. Right. So I like to think of it rather than closing it as a pause. So maybe the conversation is paused here and now I have an opportunity to continue to serve them in a different way. So one of the things that I encourage people to do is to remember again, consumer behavior. So consumer behavior is I'm still going to, if I'm even remotely interested, I'm still going to follow you on social, I'm still going to join your email list to see what you are putting out into the world. And those are still inputs into my decision making process. So maybe I'm not continuing to send you emails and text messages and ringing your phone at this moment, but I'm continuing to show up in the places that you would be looking for additional information. And I'm trying to speak to that person, not just the person that's ready to sign up and ready to move forward right now, but I'm speaking to that person that's on the kind of the periphery and still making their decisions. What can I do to serve them through the content that I put out into the space that's going to help nudge them along that journey and then I can follow back up after I have continued. You know what's amazing now is we have all these tools. We know who's opening our emails, we know who's checking their text messages. Now you have insight. You can see, wait, this person that told me no is still checking out all of these things. So that's giving me more information. What emails are they clicking on? That's telling me a little bit more about what they need additional information on perhaps. Right. So I like to think of it as a pause. I have had instances in the number of businesses that I've led over the years. It's been as many as three years. I started a conversation with someone three years ago and they're just now getting to the point that they're ready to move forward. And it's been amazing to me the number of times that they said it was this email that you sent or I saw something that you posted on social media and it just so happened to hit them at the time that, that they were ready to take action.
- [18:48]
Mallory Erickson
Yeah. Okay. I love that. And I mean, I can imagine also that part of what they're responding to are, is valuable content that you're sending out.
- [18:57]
Tamara Jackson
Right.
- [18:57]
Mallory Erickson
It's not that you've sent 47 sales follow ups in, in three years, but they're being reminded of who you are and what you offer. And it's resonating with something either they're worried about or they're thinking about or wondering. And that's of part, part of what is like the prompt is sort of changing. Right. And so it's hitting them at the right time, but it's also you're hitting, you're getting into their consciousness in a variety of different ways so that they're kind of figuring out where their alignment point lives with you.
- [19:27]
Tamara Jackson
That's absolutely right. So I'm thinking about a campaign that we're working on right now for one of our clients and we're doing exactly that. So on Tuesday, it's about thought leadership. So how are you different from everyone else in the space? That's another thing that we must remember. There's always competition. Whether it's direct competition, another organization that's doing the exact same thing, or some alternative that our ideal audience could choose to support. Right. So what are some of the other things that are going on in that space that maybe we have a different take on? We have a different belief system. There's a uniqueness to what we do. How do we showcase that in one email a week to help that audience understand there is something different about the way that we do business. And then in our follow up email later in the week, it is going to lean more towards getting people to raise their hand. That's the way I like to think of it and say, hey, I like more information, I'd like to learn more, but it's in order. Right. We're leading with that thought leadership first. And even that email that's going to come later in the week, it's not just going to be a blatant sales pitch. We're going to create value even in that email to help them understand what are the things that I need to look for and the partner that I want to work with on this. Let me make sure that I'm answering those questions in the email. And if I love the word that you use, Malik, if there's alignment, then that person should want to raise their hand because they feel like this is the best decision for them.
- [21:00]
Mallory Erickson
Yes. Okay. I love that. And I think this is so important for fundraisers because I don't know if you've heard about, like, donor fatigue or this myth of donor fatigue. And in my book, I talk about how, like, you know, I don't. Donor fatigue is not a thing where they're just fatigued because of the amount of communication, but they might be fatigued by how you're communicating. That's right. Like, if all of. And that actually doesn't have to do with cadence. Right. It's content. It's like, I mean, we all have that friend who only asks us for things, and I am fatigued after the second interaction. Right. Like, I am already fatigued. But then we have relationships with other people where there's so much back and forth and relationship building and we're going deeper and we're learning things and it's reciprocal and all these things. And it's like, I don't ever think about the amount of times I've done something for them because I'm, like, in relationship with them and I don't mind how much they're reaching out or thinking about that in any ways. And so I love what you're saying because I think you're kind of validating and verifying this point, which is that donor fatigue is not how much you're emailing them or talking to them or being in communication with them, but what are you saying? And are you fatiguing them just because of. It's just asks. And then we say, oh, we don't want to bother them. We don't want to bother them until we really need something. And then we're going to email them for emails about this urgent campaign, and then we don't want to bother them. And really what's happening is kind of the opposite of what you're trying to do. Yeah.
- [22:33]
Tamara Jackson
It's such a. An interesting thing is often what we do is we attract what we don't want with our behavior. So we want people to be supportive and to believe in what we're doing, but our actions don't align with that. And then we end up pushing people away. I am a person that subscribes to the email list all the time. If it's something that I'm interested in, that's one of the ways that I get a sense of whether or not this Is something that I will invest in at some point. And so to your point, I don't think, oh, my gosh, they're sending me too many emails until they start sending too many of the emails that are just asked. But if I am being blessed in some way, if I'm learning something from what I'm reading, if it's helping me to think, think differently about things, even if it's just an amazing story, I think for my friends and clients that I work with in a nonprofit space, I think they discount often the value of storytelling. Like hearing a story of someone that has been touched by the organization. Man, that does my heart so good. It's like, oh, my gosh, they really are making a difference. And it makes me want to be a part of making that happen for more people. So maybe if you told more stories about the impact that you're making, that would allow you to share how you're touching people in a very tangible way. And it's not a hard ask. It's just telling the story of what you're doing.
- [24:01]
Mallory Erickson
Yeah, I love that. Do you have any recommendations? I want to kind of double click on that scenario, for example. Do you have any recommendations on. Okay. In an email like that? That really is storytelling. Maybe there's even a video in there or a message from the CEO. Do you recommend in an email like that? There is a P.S. if you want to support more people, like Harry or something like that. And it can be, in a soft way, an invitation to get involved. Okay, well, I was gonna ask. Or do you feel like we need some, like, purist touch points that kind of don't mention at all the opportunity to go deeper?
- [24:39]
Tamara Jackson
Well, I certainly think there's always more than one way to do something, so I've seen both work well. I would lean towards the side of that soft opportunity, just providing a link for those that are touched by the story. Because what can happen. Let's play the scenario out. When there's nothing there is. They could be so touched they could want to do something, and now they have to take another step. Like, where do I need to go if I want to support this? And the reality of our lives is they're so busy, and so now I'm like, oh, I don't know if I have time to do this, I might come back to it. And what unfortunately happens in a lot of those instances is I never make it back because I get distracted and pulled into all of the other things. So I think for the person that is touched and wants to Take action immediately. Let's make it easy for them. So what you're hinting to Mallory, I think is really important is all about how that ask is positioned. It shouldn't come on super strong. And if you've enjoyed this article, please donate $10 today. Right. Like, it's more of creating an opportunity for those that would like to take that step to support. It could be as simple as if the person that's highlighted in the story, let's use a name like John. If you want to be a part of us helping people like John, here is, you know, a link where you can donate. It can be something really simple. I think sometimes we put a lot of pressure on ourselves too, to come up with this super slick way of asking people and what it really should be thought of invitation. If you're aligned with this, I want to invite you to be a part of it. If we use that thought process, I think we'll position it in a way that those that are truly touched by it will take the action that you're looking for.
- [26:37]
Mallory Erickson
I love that recommendation because I think what you're saying here, like something I'm taking away from what you're saying is like you need to be clear with whatever that call to action is. But the moment you're kind of overthinking. Am I exactly saying this? You've kind of lost the whole point of the email, which was to provide value and share a story. Right. The moment we're obsessing about, then all of a sudden our intentions have completely shifted and they aren't actually about the being value based anymore. Now it's a fundraising email and now we're going to lose that whole authenticity around just trying to storytell and create more organic opportunities for people to get involved.
- [27:15]
Tamara Jackson
Absolutely. Like the mindset that you are in when you are creating the content plays a huge role in how you're going to craft it and ultimately how it's going to be received. Because we've all had interactions where we felt in our heart of hearts that even the person, though the person was saying A, B and C, that's not really what they were about. And that comes across an email and text on social media as well. So if you have to spend some time in a quiet place, maybe you need to take a walk, play with your dog, whatever, whatever helps you do that before you sit down and start writing that so that you are able to come from a pure place that.
- [27:59]
Mallory Erickson
Such important advice, people are going to feel like I planted you here. Just, I mean, it's just such important advice because I feel like I talk about this a lot with alignment fundraising. Like alignment can't just be a strategy, it has to be an intention because the moment it's a strategy. Exactly. You can feel it. It just. You can just feel it. And so I so appreciate ending on that note. I could talk with you for so much longer, but tell everybody we'll give them just a little tast where they can find you, follow you, work with you, all the things.
- [28:33]
Tamara Jackson
Awesome. So thank you for the opportunity to share. The platform that I hang out on most social media wise is LinkedIn, so please connect with me there. In terms of the websites, if you're interested in learning more about ethical sales, how we leverage technology to be able to allow you to generate more revenue without investing more time, I'd love for you to Visit us at LeadRevivor Pro. Mallory, thank you so much for the opportunity to spend time with your audience.
- [29:01]
Mallory Erickson
Thank you so much for joining me today.
- [29:09]
I hope today's episode inspired or challenged you to think differently. For additional takeaways, tips, show notes, and more about our amazing guest and sponsors, head on over to Malloryerickson.com podcast and if you didn't know, hosting the this podcast isn't the only thing I do every day. I coach, guide and help fundraisers and leaders just like you. Inside of my program, the Power Partners Formula Collective. Inside the program, I share my methods, tools and experiences that have helped me fundraise millions of dollars and feel good about myself in the process. To learn more about how I can help you, visit MalloryErickson.com PowerPartners Last but not least least if you enjoyed this episode, I'd love to encourage you to share it with a friend you know would benefit or leave a review. I'm so grateful for all of you and the good hard work you're doing to make our world a better place. I can't wait to see you in the next episode. What if your next fundraising event wasn't about the perfect room or a flawless run, but about building real, lasting relationships with your donors? On September 8th and 9th, join me at the Raise 2025 conference in San Antonio, Texas, where I'll share how to reimagine events as spaces for connection, trust, and true partnership. And for a limited time, you can save $250 with my code RAISE25ME. Just visit raise.one cause.com and use the code RAISE25ME at checkout to save $250. I would love to see you.