Episode Overview

Podcast: What the Fundraising
Episode: 262 – Beyond Inclusion: Creating Safety, Power & Space to Lead with Sarah Ali
Host: Mallory Erickson
Guest: Sarah Ali (Founder, Sarah Ali Philanthropy)
Release Date: October 7, 2025

Main Theme:
In this powerful episode, Mallory Erickson sits down with fundraising leader Sarah Ali to discuss what it takes to create truly safe, empowering, and inclusive spaces for leaders from marginalized identities in the nonprofit sector. The conversation goes beyond the typical discussion about inclusion, digging into authenticity, the complexities of identity, safety, the transformative power of play, and actionable steps for sector leaders to build space where everyone can lead without shrinking.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sarah Ali's Background and Perspective (02:23)

• Introduction to Sarah: 10+ years in the sector, founder of a 12-person global agency (Sarah Ali Philanthropy), working with large and medium nonprofit organizations, including Muslim organizations moving toward enterprise-level philanthropy.

  • "I have been in the nonprofit sector for over 10 years...helping organizations build and scale revenue engines." – Sarah Ali (02:23)

• Diverse Experience: Sarah’s work bridges “historic” and “digital-first” giving, touches on institutional giving, and addresses gaps where diverse communities are underrepresented at the funder table.

2. From Inclusion to Safety and Power (05:04)

• Challenging "Inclusion":

  • Sarah’s viral post: “We don’t need inclusion, we need safety, we need power, we need space to lead without shrinking.” (Mallory, referencing Sarah’s post – 03:41)
  • Sarah describes her lived experience as a visibly Muslim (hijabi) woman, how identity is often weaponized, and the drawbacks of feeling pressure to separate personal identity from professional contributions.

• Defining Safety:

  • Safety means being able to occupy space without self-shrinking or needing to “divorce” oneself from aspects like gender, religion, or race.
  • “I actually think that that divorcing of oneself from one’s work and one’s credibility is dangerous because it buys right back into that sense that who you are and what your identity has no role to play in your ability to lead.” – Sarah Ali (05:04)

3. Lived Experience and Systemic Challenges (07:54)

• Microaggressions & Public Perceptions:

  • Detailed story: Sarah describes entering a room and watching attitudes shift as soon as people see her hijab or perceive her age.
    • “The second I come on screen, I can see people’s faces change...” – Sarah Ali (07:54)

• Global & Local Climate:

  • Context of increasing Islamophobia and real threats (like not taking public transit in Toronto for safety reasons), and the additional burden for visible minorities.
  • “A year and a half ago, the National Council of Canadian Muslims reported a 1,300% increase in Islamophobic attacks in the last quarter of 2023.” – Sarah Ali (09:29)

• Implications for Fundraising:

  • With the growing wealth and philanthropic capacity in new, diverse communities (e.g., Islamic finance), the sector’s reluctance to grapple with these issues can harm its ability to connect authentically with emerging donors.

4. Complexity and Fluidity of Identity (11:02)

• Navigating Tension for White Leaders:

  • Mallory reflects on the push-pull dynamic: wanting to honor, but not pigeonhole, others’ identities.
    • “It’s just such a fluid conversation…I love you sharing your story because it creates space…” – Mallory Erickson (11:02)

• Multiplicity of Identity:

  • There is “no single story” about identity; everyone’s experience is unique. Reference to Chimamanda Adichie’s TED Talk ("The Danger of a Single Story").
  • “I wear hijab and pray five times a day, but also... like to hang out with my friends at Yemeni coffee shops…” – Sarah Ali (13:48)
  • Importance of being open, curious, and seeking out the stories people want to share.

5. The Impact of Stress and Binary Thinking (18:07)

• Stress and Burnout in Nonprofits:

  • Discussion on how chronic stress leads to more binary, reductive thinking and makes it harder for people to hold nuance around identity or to be curious.
  • “As our stress increases, we become more binary in our thinking... we oversimplify, our brain tries to reduce complexity.” – Mallory Erickson (18:07)

• Intersectional Burnout:

  • Marginalized identities often experience intensified burnout due to layered traumas and systemic inequities.
  • Conversation expands to methods for team support and building emotionally regulated, curious teams.

6. Play as a Tool for Healing and Inclusion (20:39)

• Design Thinking & Play:

  • Sarah champions “design thinking” to promote safe, playful, and creative team environments.
  • Exercises like “emotional weather” check-ins support openness and make space to process trauma through play.
  • “They say that the opposite of trauma is play. If more space is given to play and less to stressful meetings about not hitting target...we will not burn out.” – Sarah Ali (20:39)

• Loss of Entry-Level Roles:

  • Automation is shrinking entry-level positions, but those early-career employees bring essential playfulness, curiosity, and openness to teams.
  • “We need to…train people into the sector…because they allow us to put play [at the center] and bring curiosity.” – Sarah Ali (22:45)

7. The Joy of Fundraising, Unleashing Potential, and Lasting Advice (25:55)

• Connecting to the Joy:

  • Sarah’s personal story: moving from law to face-to-face fundraising, finding passion in donor connections and the inherent joy of giving.

• Unleashing True Potential:

  • Mallory and Sarah emphasize that authentic leadership is about being fully oneself—“not amazing, just unleashed.”
    • “Whenever people say, ‘You’re amazing,’...I’m not amazing, actually, I’m just unleashed.” – Mallory Erickson (25:55)
  • Takeaway: Remove barriers to authenticity to unleash everyone’s full leadership capacity.

• Final Advice for Leaders:

  • “Connect yourself to the joy, and then let that hold joy with others because you’ll find the story, you’ll find the safety, you’ll find the comfort, and your work will feel like play again. You’ll be reminded as to why you came here…” – Sarah Ali (26:33)

Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• “We don’t need inclusion, we need safety, we need power, we need space to lead without shrinking.”
  – Mallory quoting Sarah’s viral post (03:41)

• “I actually think that divorcing of oneself from one’s work and one’s credibility is dangerous...”
  – Sarah Ali (05:56)

• “The second I come on screen, I can see people’s faces change…”
  – Sarah Ali (07:54)

• “A year and a half ago, the National Council of Canadian Muslims reported a 1,300% increase in Islamophobic attacks...”
  – Sarah Ali (09:29)

• “There’s no such thing as a single story; we’re all multifaceted, all holding a million stories within us.”
  – Sarah Ali (13:48)

• “As our stress increases, we become more binary in our thinking... our brain naturally tries to reduce complexity.”
  – Mallory Erickson (18:07)

• “They say that the opposite of trauma is play. If more space is given to play and less to stressful meetings about not hitting target... we will not burn out.”
  – Sarah Ali (20:39)

• “Whenever people say, ‘You’re amazing,’...I’m not amazing, actually, I’m just unleashed.”
  – Mallory Erickson (25:55)

• “Connect yourself to the joy and then let that hold joy with others because you’ll find the story, you’ll find the safety, you’ll find the comfort, and your work will feel like play again.”
  – Sarah Ali (26:33)

Important Timestamps by Segment

• 02:23 — Sarah Ali's professional background
• 05:04–11:02 — Sarah’s story of navigating identity and leadership as a hijabi woman
• 13:48 — Dangers of the “single story” & multifaceted identity
• 18:07 — Stress, binary thinking, and impact on nonprofit sector
• 20:39–23:27 — Design thinking, play, and sector innovation
• 25:55–27:17 — The joy of being “unleashed” and Sarah’s closing advice

Connect with Sarah Ali

• LinkedIn: Sarah Ali Philanthropy (Sarah: “I am most active on LinkedIn...” – 27:27)
• Contact: Look for LinkedIn updates or the team’s soon-to-be-refreshed website for collaboration and support opportunities.

Final Takeaway

This episode is a candid, inspiring exploration of leadership, identity, and organizational culture in the nonprofit world. Mallory and Sarah challenge listeners to move beyond shallow inclusion, urging leaders to create true safety, foster curiosity, play, and empower everyone to bring their fullest selves—because that’s where both personal and sectoral transformation begin.