Podcast Summary

What the Fundraising, Episode 269 (Nov 11, 2025)

Beyond Passion: The Art of Leading with Skill, Not Just Spirit

Host: Mallory Erickson
Guest: David Rhode

Episode Overview

This episode features a deep dive into effective nonprofit leadership beyond just enthusiasm and drive, with guest David Rhode—nonprofit founder, consultant, educator, and author of Passion Isn’t Enough: A Practical Guide for Nonprofit Leaders. Mallory and David discuss the essential skills nonprofit leaders must cultivate, how to navigate the balance between passion and practical know-how, and strategies for developing resilient leadership and fundraising abilities. The conversation is candid and accessible, providing actionable advice backed by personal stories and professional experience.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Limits of Passion in Nonprofit Work

• Setting the Stage:
  Both Mallory and David recount entering the nonprofit space powered by passion but quickly realizing its limits without complementary skill-building.
  • David: “The passion piece can be a positive... but being successful in this role involves being skilled and competent and confident across an array of areas.” (04:49)
• Common Pitfall:
  Early wins fueled by enthusiasm can mask underlying skill gaps, leading to burnout or hitting professional plateaus.
  • Mallory on her own experience: “I came in just thinking my passion...could be enough... maybe being misled a little bit by some early success.” (03:49)

2. The Need for Practical Skills & Training

• Unrealistic Expectations:
  Nonprofit leaders often face job descriptions with a dizzying array of responsibilities.
  • David: "It's very unfair... you are the one everybody looks to to be successful with communications and fundraising and board development and HR... and so it's my opinion that we need to be patient with and supportive of our leaders and give them the necessary training." (05:09)
• About the Book:
  David’s book breaks down leadership roles into manageable parts, ending chapters with “actionable next steps.”

3. The Role of Boards & Setting Expectations

• Common Early Challenge:
  Managing boards—especially setting clear roles and expectations—is a frequent stumbling block.
  • David: “A lot of times people get excited about the work...we're flattered...instead of saying, 'I'm delighted to hear you're interested, let's have a conversation about what being a board member would involve.'” (06:54)
• Actionable Practice:
  David recommends a clear, written outline of board member responsibilities and annual evaluations regarding engagement.
• Ongoing Coaching:
  Effective leaders “coach up” their boards just as they themselves are still learning.

4. Navigating Inner Barriers: Insecurity, Scarcity, and the Art of the Ask

• Insecurity as a Barrier:
  Leaders often hesitate to set expectations or make asks, driven by feelings of insecurity or imposter syndrome.
  • Mallory: “...So much of it came from insecurity that I felt around the value that we were offering... I really didn't know how to reconcile that inside myself.” (09:09)
• Getting Comfortable with Money Conversations:
  It’s vital to communicate openly about financial needs and be direct with board members.
  • David: "We're doing ourselves and our organization a disservice... We're undermining our own work if we don't put the big cards on the table, which is: without money, we can't help people." (10:34)
• Natural Connections > Selling:
  Shift away from feeling like you have to “sell” the organization; instead, “share the opportunity” and see if it matches the potential donor or board member’s interests.

5. Tactical Strategies for Real-Time Confidence and Connection

• Ask Questions and Listen:
  Asking donors why they care and what motivates them leads to deeper, more authentic relationships and transformational gifts.
  • David: “The questions become the security blanket. It becomes the way of opening them up.” (15:08)
• Peer Support:
  Find other nonprofit leaders to talk with for reassurance and advice, since the role can be isolating.

6. Moving from Transactional to Transformational Relationships

• Avoiding the 'Friendship Trap':
  Fundraisers may struggle to move donor relationships from friendly to impact-driven asks, especially with major donors.

• David Recommends:

  • Bring donors closer to the mission—invite them to see programs firsthand.
  • Frame asks with gratitude, context, and future vision to signal next-level involvement.
  • If in doubt, “you don’t ask, you don’t get.”

• Memorable Advice:

  • David: "People give to people, not to organizations, and that's a person right in front of us. So let's talk to them like a person that we know." (27:40)

7. Natural Conversation > Rigid Script

• Let Go of Over-Preparation:
  Donor conversations won’t follow a rigid script; authenticity and genuine connection matter more.
  • David, quoting a boxer: “Everybody has a good plan until you get punched in the face...so let's not put ourselves into that mindset.” (25:24)

8. Final Thoughts & Calls to Action

• David’s Offer:
  Buy his book for your organization’s board and he’ll Zoom into a board meeting to help answer questions and support ongoing development. (28:16)
• Where to Find David:
  • LinkedIn: David Rhode
  • Book: Passion Isn’t Enough (available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, etc.)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Being successful in this role involves being skilled and competent and confident across an array of areas, functional areas.”
  — David Rhode (04:49)

• “I have undermined myself early in my career, and I've gotten over that. And I think what I got over was the simple notion I felt I had to sell people on my organization.”
  — David Rhode (12:43)

• “The questions become the security blanket. It becomes the way of opening them up...and so it just then makes our job as a fundraiser more of one of connecting the dots versus trying to like, close them.”
  — David Rhode (15:08)

• “If we can somehow just become people and not fundraisers, like, maybe we would have a little bit more of a natural conversation.”
  — David Rhode (27:30)

• “People give to people, not to organizations, and that's a person right in front of us. So let's talk to them like a person that we know.”
  — David Rhode (27:40)

Key Timestamps

• [02:28] - David introduces his background and motivation for writing his book.
• [04:44] - Why passion alone isn’t sustainable; the case for skill-building.
• [06:51] - Common pitfalls: unclear board roles and missing board accountability.
• [09:01] - Mallory’s struggle with insecurity and letting discomfort drive decision-making.
• [10:17] - David on why honesty and directness matter in money conversations.
• [14:52] - Tactical strategies: using questions and peer support to build confidence.
• [17:47] - How to move donor relationships beyond the transactional.
• [20:19] - Bridging donor closeness with impact-driven conversations.
• [25:20] - Why over-scripting doesn’t work; embracing organic connection.
• [27:40] - Treating donors as people, not transactions.
• [28:04] - David’s offer to Zoom with full boards who buy the book.

Takeaways

• Passion is necessary, but not sufficient; leadership in nonprofit work requires continuous skill development.
• Clear, forthright communication about expectations—especially with board members and donors—is key.
• Fundraising and leadership success depend on authentic relationships, humility, curiosity, and a willingness to ask hard questions.
• Leaders should cultivate peer support, practice self-awareness, and not shy away from tough conversations or making meaningful asks.
• The best donor relationships are rooted in shared values, impact, and honest connection—not just cultivated for transactions.

For full show notes, top tips, and actionable resources from this episode, visit MalloryErickson.com/Podcast. Connect with David Rhode on LinkedIn or pick up his book, Passion Isn’t Enough, for practical nonprofit leadership advice.