← What the Fundraising
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- [00:00]
A
Is there a way technology can be used to make the $100 donor also feel as connected and feel like their hundred dollar donation is being curated in a way that connects to their purpose today? That's not possible, right? Like you cannot have a human gift officer for every single donor. Obviously that's just a limitation, but I think there's a future where technology can enable that.
- [00:32]
B
My name is Mallory and I'm obsessed with helping leaders in the nonprofit space raise money and run their organizations differently. What the fundraising is a space for real and raw conversations to both challenge and inspire you. Not too long ago, I was in your shoes, uncomfortable with fundraising and unsure of my place in this sector. It wasn't until I started to listen to other experts outside of the fundraising space that I was able to shift my mindset and ultimately shift the way I show up as a leader. This podcast is my way of blending professional and personal personal development so we as a collective inside the non profit sector can feel good about the work we are doing. Join me every week as I interview some of the brightest minds in the personal and professional development space to help you fundamentally change the way you lead and fundraise. I hope you enjoy this episode. So let's dive in. Welcome everyone. I am so excited to be here today with Kalyan Varma. Kalyan, welcome to what the fundraising.
- [01:33]
A
Hi, Mallory. Thanks for having me. I'm glad we're finally doing this.
- [01:37]
B
I know, me too. I am really excited for you to introduce yourself to the what the fundraising community and for them to get to know you a little better and then we'll dive into all the other pieces of your work. But just tell everybody a little bit about you and what brings you here, what brought you to our sector and what you're up to today.
- [01:56]
A
Yeah, I'm excited to share, I guess my journey over a really long period of time now to bring us to where we are today. I am originally from India. I was born and raised in India, went to college there. And just by coincidence, what happened while I was in college was we came across a situation where some of our classmates needed financial aid to finish education. And back in India, there was no professional sort of like financial aid office or like, you know, professional fundraising arm of the. Of the college. So we as students saw that this was a problem that could be solved. And so we ended up actually just sort of thinking, hey, it can't be that hard to like reach out to alumni and raise money to fund scholarships for students that needed that financial aid. And so I mean, obviously it ended up being way more challenging than we originally thought it was. But, you know, we started off there, and then we realized, okay, we need to create an entity to collect the money if somebody was willing to make a donation. So we ended up starting a nonprofit foundation and use that entity to raise money for some of our classmates that needed that scholarship. And thankfully, like, you know, enough alumni showed interest, and we were able to raise enough money to make sure nobody dropped out that year. And so we continued sort of running that foundation every summer, raising money, accepting applications for scholarship, and raising enough money to fund those students that needed that scholarship. So that was kind of my introduction to the world of alumni and fundraising. But at the time, this was always like a project that we were doing. You know, every summer I graduated college, got a job at Goldman Sachs. I worked there for about three years, but always had the itch or the bug to kind of start something that has a bigger impact. At the time, I didn't think of what I was doing as my college project, if you will, as something bigger. Yeah, like when I quit my job from Goldman Sachs three years into my career, I actually started a couple of different companies, tried a couple of different things, but my heart kept pulling me back into the world of nonprofits and education and making education more affordable and how that felt like the most meaningful work I had done till date. And so that was how the idea for ALMA Base came to be. We started alma base about 10 years ago with the mission of making education more affordable. We believe there is a future in the world where more and more alumni give back to their universities and schools. Schools. And we want to enable that to happen. And we've seen that happen in a lot of schools and universities, and we're able to drive more fundraising as a result of that. And that helps more scholarships and makes education more affordable for more students. So, yeah, that's what brings us here.
- [04:45]
B
Okay, so tell me a little bit. When we first met, I loved hearing your story and your, like, real heart for the impact of the work. I think that's always this piece around technology and social impact and something I've even discovered more intimately now. Being on the practivated side is like, there are people who. And I'm not saying that this is bad. I think we need people like this, too, who want to build businesses and want to build technology, and that's kind of what drives them. Like, the innovation of that drives them. And then I think there's a group of founders who are driven by a problem that they kind of can't help but want to solve and are sort of maybe addicted is the wrong word, but obsessed with solving that problem, which is how I feel in what drives me to do my work. And I feel that way, like in with you too. And so tell everybody a little bit more about like Alma Base and like, what is it that keeps you up at night that has you wanting to drive this solution forward in our space?
- [05:54]
A
Yeah. What I'm obsessed about, or what I have grown more obsessed about even over a period of time is the trend in fundraising is more dollars coming in, but from fewer donors. So I think there's far too much focus on the top of the pyramid, if you will. Right. And not enough focus on growing the base. Right. And for me, across various sort of verticals of nonprofits, obviously a big focus of ours for the last nine or ten years has been education, but we're starting to see a lot more impact that we're able to create even outside of education and other nonprofit verticals. And yeah, I think most nonprofits tend to do a poor job of marketing and growing the base at the bottom of the pyramid. And I think even from a technology perspective, there's a lot of emphasis on better CRMs, more focus on like those top few prospects, etc. And probably rightfully so. Right. We know that 80% of the money comes from those few donors. But I think to build a sustainable approach to fundraising, it's important that there's enough people at the bottom of the pyramid that you're engaging and like, you know, that you're growing connection with. And that's where I want Alma base to stay focused. And I really, really strongly feel like, especially now with AI as well, having the right tools to engage your broad base of your community, making them feel more connected to your purpose, is truly far more possible with technology than otherwise. And that's what I want Alma base to continue to stay focused on. And that's what keeps me up at night just thinking of all the ways in which nonprofits can engage that broad base of potential supporters through better technology.
- [07:47]
B
And I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, maybe in an undercurrent that I'm hearing, but is sort of technology enabled human connection? Right. Is like how to not leave behind all of these other donors, community members, participants, and sort of democratize access to personalized experiences, but at some point scale, using technology to do that. So talk to me a little bit because I feel like there's an age old tension in our sector of like Technology or human? And I'm playing with that line. You're. In some ways, you're playing with that line in other ways. Like, talk to me a little bit about that.
- [08:29]
A
Yeah, that's a great question. First of all, and I totally sort of agree with you that the way in which we frame this problem has always been, hey, more technology or more people, more human versus more AI these days. But I think the right way to frame it is actually how do we use technology and AI to create more authentic communication and relationship building at scale. Right. One of my dreams is is there a future in the fundraising world where every donor has a gift officer versus only the wealthy or like the high capacity donors having a gift officer. And I say that from the perspective of the role of the gift officer being connecting a potential donor's purpose to where they can create that impact. Right. With this organization. When I stretch that thread to why can't that be true for $100 donor? Is there a way technology can be used to make the $100 donor also feel as connected and feel like their hundred dollar donation is being curated in a way that connects to their purpose today? That's not possible, right? Like, you cannot have a human gift officer for every single donor. Obviously that's just a limitation. But I think there's a future where technology can enable that. So that's at least the way I approach it. I think technology making the donor experience significantly better, making the donor feel like they're connected to the organization. Whether you're making a hundred dollar donation or $100,000 donation.
- [10:06]
B
Okay, I love that. And I'm thinking about something for the first time that I'm like kind of processing live, which is, you know, we hear these sort of myths of donor fatigue or I wonder if there's something that as fundraisers we feel like, okay, a hundred dollar donation or $50 donation or we don't really know if that person's like in. And so we don't want to bother them or we don't want to. We don't want to communicate with them too much or we don't want like it's almost like we feel like the size of gift indicates their interest or care in what we do. Which of course, like proportionately, oftentimes large dollar gifts are maybe proportionately less significant to the individual giving them than for someone who be giving $100, $250 gift, where that is so meaningful and so intentional. We give a lot of like virtue, but also like, we compare the wrong things. Right? We don't compare that amount to how significant it is to the person. We compare that amount to another dollar amount for a different person with a different income. And then that's how we sort of like create hierarchy. And so I feel like we're making a ton of decisions about how donors feel about us based on money that then creates some of this, like, cycle too. Do you agree?
- [11:36]
A
I agree. I think that's a really interesting way of framing it because I also think that for someone making a hundred dollar donation when they're 30 years old, like, you know, and maybe for the first time making any kind of like say, a big charitable donation, I think the way you then continue to communicate with that person makes a significant impact on whether they'll come back when they're 50 years old or 60 years old and want to make a larger donation. Right. So I think while I do understand donor fatigue and why that's important to think about, I also think there's something to being able to communicate the impact back to even $100 donor. And again, can technology play a role where you can communicate to that donor or those donors at scale, but still remain reasonably personalized without making them feel like, hey, I'm just getting a newsletter or something like that? I mean, again, if we look at for profit companies and brands and how they communicate with their audience at scale, I mean, it's gotten significantly more personalized than it ever used to be. Right. And you feel like the brand understands you, gets what you care about. I think nonprofits have a long way to go. I don't think it's impossible.
- [13:01]
B
Yeah, I'm curious, like anything you've noticed, like, you have a ton of experience obviously in higher ed, but you're starting to see sort of application and in healthcare and other like, nonprofits. And I'm curious how you think about the role of identity in donor sort of communication and taking care of that larger, like, everyday giver. Because I think one of the things that's been super interesting for me with I was never a higher ed fundraiser. So being in that market for practivated in a big way has me learning so much about higher ed philanthropy. And the identity piece is so interesting, like the difference. And you know, I was having dinner with the health care system the other day and hearing about the like, identity component of grateful patient programs. But like, how that can be even a little complicated sometimes depending on why you were in the hospital. But then you're a alumni. Like I'm always going to be at Michigan Wolverine. Right. Like everything Else in my life can change, but like, that will always be a part of my identity. Are there trends that you guys are seeing around donor engagement that like span across all the sectors and then any differentiation you've noticed?
- [14:16]
A
Yeah, maybe the broadest way to say this in terms of what we are observing is identity. When you frame it as, how does this person want to stay connected with your organization? Right. Like why do they care? Is a lot more fluid than, let's say the rigid structures that have historically been in place, for example, in the university ecosystem. If you went to the College of Arts as an example, they tag you as, let's say, an arts alum. Right. But today you may be, I don't know, an entrepreneur that's much more interested in what the business school has to say or like how you can support more entrepreneurs at University of Michigan, for example. So like today's interests may not fit in with the rigid sort of structures that universities have put in place of like this is an art school alum versus this person was an athlete at school. Doesn't mean they're as interested in athletics today. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. And this is true even with like grateful patient programs and things like that. Like there are some rigid structures. What I'm seeing is that fundraisers are recognizing that, capturing today's interests of these donors and trying to understand why are they interested in our organization today and in what way do they want to stay connected? I mean, one, that recognition is happening among fundraisers. But two, now from a data perspective, from a technology perspective, being able to sort of create more micro segments based on people's interests and communicate accordingly is a bigger trend than it used to be. And we're also sort of adapting our products to sort of say like, hey, like how does someone, an alum of a university or a grateful patient for a hospital foundation be communicated to in a way that's far more personalized and relevant to them based on their interests as opposed to like some rigid sort of like here's the communication for all the class of 1985 kind of thing. Yeah, I don't know if that makes sense, but yeah, that's kind of what we are seeing.
- [16:19]
B
Yeah, that's super interesting. What are other things you're noticing that and maybe even thinking about? A lot of our listeners are small mid size organizations who have limited data infrastructure to maybe understand or like learn about their donors and what brought them there and are working with an old data set and that doesn't necessarily have accurate information. What are Things you're noticing that you feel like they should be thinking about or can apply to their organizations or some top tips for them.
- [16:52]
A
Yeah, I think one thing that's changing with AI is that again, historically the ability to sort of communicate at a reasonably personalized level, at scale with your entire audience used to be directly proportional to how good is your data on your CRM. And it typically meant having like structured information on what's going on with every single, say, potential donor. With AI, one thing that's changing is even unstructured data. Just like, let's say conversations being recorded or just like quick notes being put as a contact report, let's say on a CRM, etc. With AI being able to take all of this unstructured data and sort of like let AI do some work in terms of personalizing, let's say communication for different micro segments is becoming far easier. So at least the tip or the recommendation that I have for some, a lot of our like smaller customers is also rather than sort of worrying too much about rigidly sort of thinking about like, how does this fit into our CRM? Because that's often like a hard question because like some of these things are just hard to fit into like a rigid CRM structure, it's useful to think about it as like, can I have it even in an unstructured way, somewhere where it's accessible? And then starting to think about how can I use AI to be able to access this various pieces of unstructured information to be able to give me insight on what's going on with a particular donor or a group of donors, or a group of alumni, etc. So I mean, maybe the simplest way to say it is having access to that data is much more useful than sort of saying if it doesn't fit in my CRM, I'm not going to be able to access it. Kind of thinking. Right. And this is becoming even more true now with AI.
- [18:45]
B
Yeah, that's really interesting. What's the most surprising data point that drives engagement that people maybe aren't considering?
- [18:55]
A
Yeah, the thing that seems, I'd say like kind of obvious to me, but most customers don't think about is like people send a ton of emails to their audience, but barely ever sort of maybe there's like, I know there are people who look at, let's say on the newsletter which links get clicked and therefore does that indicate something about which of our content is good versus not, but even just the basic insight that's coming back from looking at all of your Emails and seeing like which of those for a particular alum. Right. Or a particular potential donor, what content have they engaged with or what have they engaged with with respect to all of the emails that have been sent out to them? And therefore what does that indicate in terms of their interest is much easier than people think it is. Right. And so even just capturing that those engagement touch points of just like how are people engaging with your emails and what does that indicate about that particular donor's interest with your organization? It is much simpler. Or maybe I shouldn't over trivialize it, but it is simpler than most people think it is.
- [20:13]
B
Okay. Amazing. I really appreciate that. Okay, what question am I not asking you that I should be asking you?
- [20:22]
A
That's a good question. Yeah. I can't think of anything specific that you haven't asked yet. Maybe we should be discussing. I'm curious, like your take on sort of like I know with Practivated, obviously it's an AI product and you help coach fundraisers. But from your perspective, I'm just curious to hear your take on where are nonprofits missing the mark as far as like engaging their broader base, engaging their broader audience is concerned. Like, what's your perspective on that?
- [21:00]
B
I often think a lot about the like fundraiser resistance to taking the actions that are going to be the most beneficial to them. And Practivated, in terms of how it's built obviously is in that one on one conversation. But it's not just about those top major donors. Right. It's I think we need to be in more conversation with everybody and even inside Practivated. One of the conversation simulators is bumping into somebody at an event. Like, how do you practice what that moment of connection looks like feels like? Get some feedback to build your confidence there. And part of my desire and build that confidence is I also think it will make all of their communications, including communications to their broad base, better because it's going to make them more real, more human. They're going to improve their storytelling skills. They're going to be less scared of, of saying something wrong or like, I just want to break all the. Not that we don't need to be professional, but there's a level of formality that has moved to perfectionism that is actually getting in the way of us telling stories and connecting in ways that actually engage. Right. Like I do not want to read a newsletter form newsletter, email with photo. Like nothing about that in the ways of prioritizing how I spend my time is wanting to read something that feels like it is for Everybody, Right. And I think that as we improve our skills around personalization and conversation, we improve our skills in personalization to segments, to people with different identities, we start to understand our donors better and people better. So I have this whole big, like, hidden incentive, because my goal has never been to just serve that the top of the funnel. Right. But there are these pieces, I think, where we're missing the mark is, like, just pulling away some of the stuff that is, like, getting in our way of talking to people and sharing things the way we would with a friend or someone we knew graduated college the same year as us or that we knew had their baby at a hospital around the same time. Like, when you just wind back all the, like, prescriptive fundraising stuff, and it's like, what might matter to them? How might they connect with you? What might they want to hear? Like, all of a sudden, we generate this, like, creativity and connection that I think we, like, disconnect from when we're in our robot mode of operating.
- [23:37]
A
Yeah. Yeah, that's very interesting. I think the key word for me that, like, from what you just said is just, like, authenticity. Right. And like, just kind of. Yeah. Just being your true self in those conversations and in the way we communicate. And there's so much to be said also about just, like, the changing donor demographics, where I think people want you to sort of just see you for who you are. And, like, just being authentic and honest is far more valuable today in some of these conversations, especially with younger and maybe middle aged alumni and donors, as opposed to the formality that kind of became, I guess, like, the industry truism that we never questioned in the past. So, yeah, I think that's very valuable.
- [24:22]
B
And I think part of that is probably just, like, the rate of communication, like, how much additional communication we get today. We have so much more access to standardized communication, and we see that everywhere, and. And we have to prioritize. You know, it's interesting. My grandma passed away earlier this year, and we were cleaning out her house, and I found all of these letters, like, political letters that my parents were very involved in local politics and California politics. And so I saw all these letters that they would get from political organizations mailed to their house front and back on a typewriter, and that were probably being, like, sent to everybody in exactly the same way. And then just the signature at the bottom was different. And it's like. But they were going through their mail, right? They were going through five pieces of mail a day. We are going through, like, 2,000 forms of communication. And we have to filter differently. And so why would we pick to read a form document versus something that we feel like was sent just to us and for us for a particular reason? I think we're always going to prioritize the thing where we feel like it matters more if we look at it.
- [25:35]
A
Absolutely, Absolutely. I think we're all drowning in too much communication. So, like, I don't think the answer is more communication. I think the answer is just better, more personalized, more authentic communication.
- [25:48]
B
Yeah, for some organizations it might be more communication. Right. They might be only emailing when they're asking. And then for you, more communication. Exactly to your point, better communication. We don't just want to do more of the bad stuff. Okay. I could talk to you forever. This was so wonderful. I so appreciate the work that you're doing and the donors that you're championing in the work that you're doing. So, so thank you so much for joining me. Tell folks where they can go to connect with you to learn more about Alma Base. All the things.
- [26:17]
A
Yeah. Thank you for having me, Mallory. This was a great conversation. You can hit me up on LinkedIn if you want to connect. Just LinkedIn Kalyan Alma base and just go to almabase.com if you want to learn more about what we do. And thanks for having me.
- [26:31]
B
Thank you so much. I hope today's episode inspired or challenged you to think differently. For additional takeaways, tips, show notes, and more about our amazing guest and sponsors, head on over to Mallorykson.com podcast and if you didn't know, hosting this podcast isn't the only thing I do every day. I coach, guide and help fundraisers and leaders just like you. Inside of my program, the Power Partners Program Formula Collective. Inside the program, I share my methods, tools and experiences that have helped me fundraise millions of dollars and feel good about myself in the process. To learn more about how I can help you, visit MalloryErickson.com PowerPartners Last but not least, if you enjoyed this episode, I'd love to encourage you to share it with a friend you know would benefit or leave a review. I'm so grateful for all of you and the good heart hard work you're doing to make our world a better place. I can't wait to see you in the next episode.