← What the Fundraising
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- [00:01]
A
Perfection. Great is the enemy of good. Sometimes you just need to start. And it can be imperfect. But I also love to talk about new major gift officers when they junior kind of fundraisers. When they say, what if they ask me questions? I don't know, I'm like, not only is it a great excuse for follow, which we always love, and another touch point. Do you go into every conversation and relationship like this? This is just a conversation. This is relationship building. You don't sit down at brunch with your friend and let me study all the questions that she might ask about what's happening. Like, it's okay, it's okay. This is just relationships and conversations.
- [00:45]
B
Hey, my name is Mallory and I'm obsessed with helping leaders in the nonprofit space raise money and run their organizations differently. What the Fundraising is a space for real and raw conversations to both challenge and inspire you. Not too long ago, I was in your shoes, uncomfortable with fundraising and unsure of my place in this sector. It wasn't until I started to listen to other experts outside of the fundraising space that I was able to shift my mindset and ultimately shift the way I show up as a leader. This podcast is my way of blending professional and personal development so we as a collective inside the nonprofit sector can feel good about the work we are doing. Join me every week as I interview some of the brightest minds in the personal and professional development space to help you fundamentally change the way you lead and fundraise. I hope you enjoy this episode. So let's dive in.
- [01:39]
C
Welcome everyone. I am so excited to be here today with Meredith Johnston. Meredith, welcome to what the fundraising.
- [01:46]
A
Thank you so much. I'm delighted to be here.
- [01:48]
C
Okay, tell everybody a little bit about you and your work and then we'll dive in.
- [01:53]
A
Yeah. So I live in San Diego right now. I'm the vice president of development for Family Health Centers of San Diego. I've been in fundraising about it's over 20 years. I don't know if it's 25 yet. It's a long time. I started an annual giving managing a phone a thon at my alma mater and fell in love with it and really came up through annual giving and direct response and then moved into major gifts in academia and then I moved in and did at a medical research, a nonprofit medical research institute and now I'm in healthcare on the community funding side.
- [02:28]
C
Amazing. Okay. And we were just talking before we hit record on something you thought wasn't very like hip or you know, sexy to talk about, but I actually think you are hitting on like the crux of some of the pain of the fundraiser experience right now, which is this relationship between building relationships as fundraisers being brought in because we're great relationship builders and yet the volume of relationships that we've been expected to build has grown over time and we're sort of being treated like it's fundraising 50, 75 years ago, where we have 20 individual relationships of folks were meeting at the country club or whatever, that form of fundraising
- [03:10]
A
on the golf course.
- [03:11]
C
Right, exactly. And yet that is not what it looks like to manage a portfolio today or to be a frontline fundraiser today. And we are not really supported by technology in the ways that we need to be to execute modern day fundraising and be the relationship builders that we could be if we weren't, I don't know, relabeling envelopes because of some mail merge that went haywire. So talk to me a little bit about like kind of that tension from your perspective.
- [03:44]
A
Yeah, I mean, I think I will say at least we shouldn't be doing fundraising like we did 50 years ago. Unfortunately, there are places that are. And it's. I just see it as such a missed opportunity and it is a failure to leverage the talents of your frontline fundraisers. I know it's very popular to say that major gift officers should be carrying a portfolio of 125. I think that's absurd. I think that's impossible without technology, without really good tools. You know, the fact of the matter is the days when you just like hit the pavement and knocked on doors and were your charming, wonderful self with a great case statement and building these relationships like, is it still possible to do that? Of course it is. That will always be kind of the backbone of it. But that person should be supported by really good technology and systems. I'm proud to say we pay fundraisers well. I don't want to pay as a leader. I don't want to pay a fundraiser salary. You know, a talented major gift officer, I'm going to bring in a competitive salary. I don't want to pay that salary for them to be doing pivot tables and filtering and sorting. And I came in annual giving. I love a pivot table. So this is no knock on a really beautiful pivot table. But, you know, major gift officers should be out engaging in relationships, not filtering and sorting to figure out, you know, where there are triggers and who they should be talking to. There are. And the for profit got ahead of us in this, which is very often the case. We see that in a lot of ways I used to say that on my annual giving days about marketing, you know, and market research. They were much, much better about kind of lead generation and market research than we were. And nowadays I really see it the most in this kind of technology around. It's not lead generation that I'm even talking about. It really is like what are the behaviors and triggers that should inspire us to look at someone and bring them closer when they are showing us behaviors that say I'm interested or I'm more interested than before or my financial circumstances have changed or you know, I went to an event that really spoke to my heart and inspired me. We can't have eyes on everyone at once and we are leaving money on the table if we don't have technologies and tools to really help us do it. And manual wastes a lot of valuable personnel time. But it's also flawed. It's just flawed. It's just never ever going to be really comprehensive if we are again creating pivot tables and filtering and sorting lists of donors. It is my soapbox.
- [06:24]
C
No, I appreciate it so much. And it's funny because there are so many things that are coming up for me as you're talking like one, I'm like thinking about, you know, why do we feel like there will be less error? Because I will say that piece around errors we I hear so often, well, the technology is going to make an error. And I'm like, oh, because we're perfect or because they're like our data isn't good enough for us to use technology in that way? Because I hear that one a lot. Right. If everybody's going to get an email with first name but like some of ours are not correct. So we will just not use any automation ever because we have some. As opposed to the fact that there are a million workarounds to situations like that. But kind of letting that be like the end of the conversation, what do you see as kind of like the biggest misconceptions or barriers for leaders or board members in really like understanding the day to day experience experience of a fundraiser or what else is blocking them from them? Also doing that cost analysis around like, wow, I'm paying this major gift officer to work that not only is not in their superpower but is like they could be doing much more valuable work.
- [07:39]
A
Right. And I mean what I always tell my major gift officers as I lead teams is there's if you're doing a task that someone else can do, that's a problem because no one else can do your task.
- [07:51]
C
Right.
- [07:52]
A
I don't have anyone to backfill your task of going and sitting down with that prospect and talking about could they ever see themselves giving to our organization and qualifying that person? You know, no one else can do that. So if you're doing something that someone else can do, I need someone else to do it.
- [08:10]
C
Yes.
- [08:11]
A
They're kind of a priceless commodity, you know, in an organization, and yet they become the dumping ground for. And it's not just that they're the dumping ground. I've seen some major gift officers get in their anxiety and they sometimes attract this kind of work because it feels it's less anxious, it's less anxiety producing. And so all of a sudden they're like, no, but like, the dean needs me to work on this newsletter because it's going to donors. It's like, no, someone else can do that. You can partner with someone in communications or marketing. I have some phenomenal admins who would do a wonderful job, you know, with that. I need you doing what that person cannot do, which is going and reaching out and sitting down and talking to that donor. So, I mean, that's certainly one of it. I think boards and leaders, I don't know that they really understand the scope, what we should be looking about at the data points. It's not feasible, at least, you know, unless you're a genius, and I'm not, and most of us aren't to really be analyzing that many data points.
- [09:10]
C
Right.
- [09:11]
A
You know, and watching for those triggers. And so first time event attendees, first time upgrades, upgrades statistically over a certain amount a gift, you know, the very first time they sign up for recurring versus a single gift. There's so many little behaviors that someone is like waving their hand to you, saying, my circumstances are evolving in terms of my relationship with your organization, you know, and whether that's my affinity is evolving. My capacity, you know, is growing. But those behaviors warrant a closer look. And, you know, my own organization, as we've talked about automated workflows, has said, like, our data's a little bit of a mess, and it's true. Like, it is a valid reality. And, you know, what I've continued to say is not only do we need to clean up our data, and that's a reality. And maybe this is coming from annual giving. I'm used to sending out a mailer to 75,000 people and guess what I hear from people where we got it wrong. They got divorced, someone died, they got married and changed their name, you know, all kinds of things. And they've been upset about it, but it's been an opportunity to have a conversation and connect and apologize and clean it up. Yeah, if we hide in our office and we're not talking to them, then it just stays bad, which no one wins then. And so I've said, like, we're going to need more quality control measures, which means maybe, like, we create kind of a funnel for who can create updates and profiles in the database and we have some key folks that can do it. But then maybe before it goes live, there's one person's eye on it who's kind of our czar of quality control because we know that they're going to get sent into an automated workflow. And so we, you know, we're going to have to up our game, but that's a great opportunity. That's a great challenge. So, yeah, I mean, again, it might come back to that annual giving background of just like, we're never going to know if we don't try. So we're going to have to try and have a little bit of a thick skin and learn as we go, and that will be okay because it's better than doing nothing.
- [11:10]
C
Totally. And I mean, gosh, I feel like if you have a donor who corrects you on something like that, that is them being engaged. Right.
- [11:19]
A
They opened it.
- [11:21]
C
They care about you getting it. Right. They care about your relationship with you. I'm like, what a great engagement indicator. Right. Because if they don't care, like, then you don't hear, who cares? I never update information and someone I never want to hear from again. It's like, yes. You get to be accountable to it. You get to say you're sorry, you get to deepen your relationship. But wonderful, you know, who wants relationship with you?
- [11:47]
A
Yep.
- [11:48]
C
Yeah.
- [11:48]
A
I mean, I used to joke back again in my, like, direct mail days, if someone was like, you know, you got this envelope wrong or I didn't know that this was a solicitation, I'd always be like, angela, you opened it. I'm thrilled.
- [12:04]
C
Yeah, I mean, you know, it's like a fundraiser. People will say like, what if I don't know how to answer every question in a meeting? And I'm like, are you kidding? That's the best problem to have.
- [12:13]
A
You get to be like, that's excuse for follow up. Yes.
- [12:17]
C
Can we put time on the calendar in a few weeks and I can come back with that answer? Like, I'm just like, I. But. But it is that part of us. Like, to your point, I think you're bringing up such an important point. Right. Which isn't about leadership, but it's about, like, how fundraisers themselves can get trapped in that work is like, it's an avoidance strategy, hiding of, like, real vulnerable work. And so there's like, this double whammy there of, like, leadership being like, this is part of the job. And it's like, cool. That was an okay part of the job when we were talking about 5 people, 10 people, 25 people. But to your point, to do that for 100 people, it means now my job is actually data entry, contact reports, and I'm always going to pick that over picking up the phone because it's a less scary activity for me to engage in.
- [13:06]
A
Yep, exactly. And I mean, my teams have heard me say often, I do think. And this is such an overused phrase, before I got into fundraising, I worked at Southwest Airlines, and we talked about this a lot. Perfection, great is the enemy of good. Sometimes you just need to start. And it can be imperfect. But I also love to talk about new major gift officers when they junior, you know, kind of fundraisers, when they say, like, what if they ask me questions? I don't know, I'm like, not only is it a great excuse for follow, which we always love. And another touch point. Do you go into every conversation and relationship like this? This is just a conversation. This is relationship building. You don't sit down at brunch with your friend and go, let me study all the questions that she might ask about what's happening. Like, it's okay. It's okay. This is just relationships and conversations. Quit thinking it has to be perfect. This isn't a speech.
- [14:01]
C
Yeah.
- [14:01]
A
We're not writing a script. It's not a speech. It's a conversation. And it's a human on the other side of this conversation who's just as human as you.
- [14:12]
C
Yeah.
- [14:13]
A
Which means very understanding and capable of making mistakes. And imperfect, too.
- [14:17]
C
Yes. And actually loves those things. I mean, all the research tells us the more perfect you seem, the less people trust you. So it's like, we know that that doesn't help us build authentic relationships. And perfectionism. And I'm sorry for everybody who is going to feel a little gut punched from this one, but perfectionism is just. It is not a thing. Right. Perfection and excellence are two very different things. And perfectionism is just a nervous system protection mechanism. It's a freeze response. Right. And it's just about preventing us from taking vulnerable action. It's not actually. So when people are like, I'm a perfectionist, and that's why I'm editing this impact report for the 54th time. I'm like, actually this is a freeze response and you are doing that to avoid the sending of it. And so exactly to your point, I would say action is always the thing that is better. Because even just that momentum, even that tiny action, you know, action is sort of double edged sword here is that when we're afraid, our body doesn't want to take action. But action is what makes fear smaller. So.
- [15:26]
A
Exactly.
- [15:26]
C
Just gotta move, y'. All.
- [15:28]
A
I literally think of. So my stepdaughter was. It is just an anxious kid, always has been. And she likes to overthink. We call it emotional exercise. And we're just like, sometimes you gotta take a few extra laps, she's gonna take a few extra laps. That's just what she does. It's part of her process. She now understands that it's part of her process. But like when she was very little, I actually printed this out and hung it up on her wall in big, big, big letters and it said feel the fear and do it anyway. So I was like, I just, we can keep talking about this, but it actually doesn't diminish the monsters, you know, in your fear of monsters at all. Those emotional monsters that are stopping you from doing whatever it is, your first dive, your first cartwheel, you know, your first day at school talking to a friend, you know, anything. It doesn't diminish by you continuing to fret and talk about it. But the fear is real. Like I don't want to not validate those feelings. So feel it. But we're just going to decide to do it anyway. We're just going to do it anyway. It can live there. It's fine. It'll stay. It's fine.
- [16:30]
C
Yes, yes. You know, I don't talk about this very often, but when I first started my coaching business, I titled, it was called like the Fearless fundraiser. And I actually got rid of it pretty quickly because I was like, fearlessness is not the goal, right? If we're waiting fear, feel fearless to do something, we're going to be waiting forever, right? And I do that to my kids all the time too. I'm like, yes, I know you're scared. And that is totally valid. I also know you're really brave. And so it's like, how do we acknowledge and validate our feelings? They are real and be able to say, I'm safe, I can do this. Thank you. Fear for, you know, trying to protect me from anything possibly going bad.
- [17:11]
A
Right?
- [17:12]
C
Like one Person not liking the envelope I use.
- [17:15]
A
Exactly. Exactly. Well. And I would say perfectionism is debilitating 100%. I have had people on my team over the years that are outstanding, bright individuals and who did not thrive because they were in their own way, because it was so hard for them to risk making a mistake. And what that often looked like was them wanting me to micromanage their work because they wanted to be sure they got it exactly how I wanted. And if they got any constructive criticism or edits, even then they felt like they had failed because it needed to be perfect. And I don't want a micromanagement or work. It's not how I want to spend my time. I want to know what you think. And then we can iterate because then we get both of our brains working on this and not just one, but they would just say, but, like, I need it to be perfect. And I'm like, yeah, that's not the goal. It's not going to be. And you're. You're going to have to get comfortable with the fact that, like, I'm going to have some tweaks, I'm going to have some suggestions, and that is not a failure. And I've had some people get past that hurdle, and I've had some not.
- [18:14]
C
Yeah. And you know, it's so interesting. Like, I'm thinking about this in relation to the, like, technology piece and what you said before around there's no other relationships in our lives where we're like, okay, I'm gonna, like, have a mom date, you know, with my kid's friend at school. And like, during it, I'm trying to, like, confirm that we, like, align on these, like, exact parenting practices from the very beginning. And if we go off script, I'm gonna, like, somehow get back into, you know, how they handle breakfast in their house. It's like, we. I mean, and it's just so bananas to me. We wonder them why it feels so inauthentic or we're like, out of our body. And to your point, I mean, it's a big part of why I built practivated to like, get those to be like, get us back in our bodies and be like, we can just build these relationships. And I did a demo yesterday with a huge health care institution, and one of the women came on at the end, said, you know, I'm getting a little emotional, like, watching this. She was like, because it just makes me really sad that we need technology like this to be able to, like, build relationships. And I said, I feel the same way, like, we didn't. I wish we felt like we could be ourselves and show up fully and be present and, like, have all of that. Like, have our stress response, not hijack us without needing the reps. Without needing. I wish that, too.
- [19:38]
A
But also, I mean, I see it. Yes, there is the reality of overcoming anxiety and, like, learning to get comfortable being authentic. But I also. And you know, as a kid, I did speech in theater. There is something to saying something out loud, and you can read something on a page and you can feel like you know it and then really stumble over the words and really struggle. Like, the concepts are in there. And so I just think there's a really lovely. It provides that lovely opportunity to just practice saying the words and being like, oh, wow, I just made that really dense and complex. And that's not a. That's not working for me. That didn't feel good. Let me try that again. And you don't want to do that in front of a prospect. And so I think, yes, her point was certainly valid, but I also just think there's a really practical thing of, like, my speech and theater background, which is, like, you don't just memorize it, you practice saying it. Not that we should memorize. I'm not saying we should memorize, but. But, like, figure out how the words are going to flow, because what happens cerebrally and what happens corporeally are very different. Like, they're just not necessarily aligned.
- [20:46]
C
Yes. That was so interesting to me to learn a few years ago about how when we are rehearsing something in our brain, it's like a completely different part of our brain than how our mouth actually works. And so it literally actually match up. Yeah. No, and obviously the. I see so many different benefits to it, but I think she was responding specifically to the, like, embodiment piece, and I was. Yeah. You know, like, I agree, like, and these are vulnerable conversations. These are hard things to do. I mean, back to your piece around the technology prioritization. I think this is why we need leaders to be pushing for better technology for fundraisers, too, because this is such a vulnerable job. If they're going to be supported by anything, it's like allowing them the space and presence to prioritize those moments, to sit in the discomfort of those moments and work through them, as opposed to being able to be like, well, I love organizing a spreadsheet, so. And that does not dysregulate me at all. So I will just do that for the rest of the day and I
- [21:47]
A
will be Able to point to what I accomplished and that I got something done. And it's really easy to hide behind that busy work. I've seen fundraisers sort of retreat into their anxiety and I can see the busy work. Like, these are not lazy people. These are not, you know, people just sitting around twiddling their thumbs. They're busy, but they're very busy. Back when I was at the research institute, they really didn't have any history of fundraising. And so there was no one telling me how I had to set up metrics. And so I was like, until someone tells me differently, I'm gonna do it how I actually think is the best. And one of those was really distinguishing between active versus passive action. And I really got away from, like, it must be a frontline or a face to face meeting 12 times a month, or you don't get, you know, credit, you don't hit your metrics. Instead, I was like, let's talk about what the difference is between an active action and a passive action. And I define the active action as you're either gathering really important information that's going to help you craft a meaningful gift opportunity, or you're imparting important information about, you know, a compelling gift opportunity, you know, and maybe assessing their entrance, but going into it saying, what do they not know about us? Or what do I not know about them? Like, why wouldn't I be ready to make an ask today? And usually it's one of those things, right? But when I would see fundraisers get in their anxiety and retreat, they would be so busy with passive actions. All of these contact reports of emails and happy birthdays and dropping off a plant and just like, so, so busy. They were putting mileage on their car. They were, like entering all their stuff. If you, like, pulled up what they'd been doing, you would see they were so busy. But not a single one was an actual conversation. Very one direction, very one sided, very passive, which there is a place for those activities, but they should not dominate. They should sprinkle between to keep them engaged between our active conversations or actions and activities. So there's a few tells, I think, when we start to retreat. And for me, one of those red flags, those warning signs that someone is in their anxiety and retreating from their job and hiding behind newsletters and spreadsheets and things like that, is there's. They're full of really, really passive, lovely and thoughtful, but really passive activity.
- [24:08]
C
Okay, you are a genius. Because. Because I think it's so interesting hearing you talk about this. I talk A lot about leading indicators. And like how do we start to reorient around leading indicators? Because we tell fundraisers to do certain things but then we only track lagging indic. This distinction between the type of leading indicator is really critical and what you're talking about these passive actions. So those are flight response actions. And actually in my book I talk about the oscillation between that and perfectionism which is like flight freeze, flight freeze. And so we often just ping pong back and forth when we're disregulated or stressed in into those states. And what's so good about how you just said that is it really does. I think, I hope for folks who are listening help give them some awareness around how to differentiate activity. Like that all activity is not created equal. What are. And that piece around the active. What's happening in both of those is you're opening up uncertainty. Uncertainty of what they might say about what you say or uncertainty about what they might say about what you ask. And we have to be grounded to, to be open to uncertainty. If we're stressed, our brain shuts off like the ability or any pursuit of uncertainty because it's like I might die if they. You know exactly how it works. And so recognizing that like those are the actions that are really critically important to moving these relationships forward. They are also the actions we are going to avoid if we are stressed or dysregulated and not doing any of those things. And we fear is so tricky because it will do all of these other things to make distract us from what we're avoiding.
- [25:59]
A
Yeah. To distract everyone.
- [26:01]
C
Yeah.
- [26:01]
A
And again, because these are not lazy people, they want to feel busy. They know that just sitting, doing nothing is wrong.
- [26:08]
C
Yes.
- [26:08]
A
So they're going to lean into very busy work. Yeah. I mean and my hope is that it also creates a little bit of self awareness of like if the shift of my activity and my focus feels off, like why is that? And if it is a lot of passive activity, that's something to really look at and to rethink of. Like do I have to take a breath and feel the fear and do it anyway? You know, pick someone in my portfolio who I have not connected with, who I have questions about and say can we have coffee? I have some questions for you. And come out the other side and recognize that was not a bear in the cave. We actually survived it. We were fine. And to your point earlier, like when we are unpolished, I do think it's scary when we don't have. I mean I will Say, because I worked with scientists and I worked with a world renowned chemist who was a genius. But he told me early on in our relationship, don't interrupt me in a donor meeting because I will lose my place. And he said, I know people have done it before and they'll like interrupt me to comment on their shoes or to say, what a lovely home, or to remark and understand why they do it. But it really throws me off because I lose my place. And getting him out of his fear, I'm like, you have this memorized? Weird. That is a huge red flag right away. I am terrified to do a donor visit with you because you were about to monologue at someone instead of like connecting. And he really did think of it as a pitch and it took him a really long time. We started, you're going to laugh. We started with seven minutes at the top of the meeting. Chit chat. We're just going to be human and we're going to chit chat. You have to give me at least seven minutes. And he would look at me, he would get annoyed because he's got a speech ready and he's like, ready. And he would like look at me and I would just like really subtly be like, no, you're at four minutes, bro. You owe me a good three minutes. And I wouldn't let him. And then by the end, we would chit chat until the person leaned in and said, tell me why you're here or tell me what's been going on. They would signal and afterwards he would say, did I go on too long? And I'm like, it was perfect. They let us know when they were ready to pivot from kind of social conversation and relationship building and how are your kids and how was your last vacation like, get down to work and you didn't move off of it until then. And I'm so proud of you. But you know, sometimes it's baby steps, but it's all fear based.
- [28:35]
C
Totally, totally. And okay, the last thing I want to say because I know we're at time, is just to bring this full circle. I can't get over the passive active actions because I feel like there's a way to quantify some of that to leadership around, hey, without these systems, we are spending this amount of time in passive action which results in, in this level of portfolio management, donor relations, these meetings, whatever that drives towards these monetary outcomes. If we can invest in X, Y and Z, it will free us up to have this amount of time for more active actions which will allow for this. So I'm going to get off this and make a calculator.
- [29:20]
A
Well, it's absolutely true because the reality is a wealth of passive activity might generate some low level annual giving gifts. It will never do more than that. Whereas while the passive actions are lovely touches between, you know, really active conversations, active, I call them actions because I don't care whether it's an email, I don't care whether it's phone call, I don't care whether it's face to face. It's real active participation in discussion with this donor. If we don't have the passive actions, we'll survive. We'll still close major gift. Major gifts. It's nicer to have some passive action sprinkled in there, but if you're too busy doing passive actions to do the active, you will never, ever close major gifts. That's not how you get there. The active actions are where it's critical and it's not where, unfortunately we have to spend most of our time when we don't have good systems to support
- [30:06]
C
us a hundred percent or we can have two of those relationships because they're the nicest people that we feel the most comfortable with and we feel.
- [30:15]
A
You always say yes.
- [30:16]
C
Yes, exactly. That's how I did it when I first started out, right? I'd be like, I know how to do major gifts, but really I was avoiding 90% of them and focusing on the ones that felt really safe and I felt more comfortable in. So, oh, okay, I could talk to you forever. This was amazing. Tell folks where they can go to connect with you and yeah, learn more about your work.
- [30:37]
A
Meredith Johnston I'm on LinkedIn. I am probably on LinkedIn too much. I enjoy seeing what my colleagues are doing. I enjoy reading articles and seeing thought leadership. So I'm on there a lot. Please feel free to connect. I would love to chat. Okay.
- [30:50]
B
Amazing. I hope today's episode inspired or challenged you to think differently. For additional takeaways, tips, show notes, and more about our amazing guest and sponsors, head on over to Malloryerickson.com podcast and if you didn't know, hosting this podcast isn't the only thing I do every day. I coach, guide and and help fundraisers and leaders just like you. Inside of my program, the Power Partners Formula Collective. Inside the program, I share my methods, tools and experiences that have helped me fundraise millions of dollars and feel good about myself in the process. To learn more about how I can help you, visit MalloryErickson.com PowerPartners Last but not least, if you enjoyed this episode. I'd love to encourage you to share it with a friend you know would benefit or leave a review. I'm so grateful for all of you and the good, hard work you're doing to make our world a better place. I can't wait to see you in the next episode.