Episode 262: The Mystery that Changed Wyoming's Stalking Law

Summary

Podcast Summary: What the Hack? — Episode 262: The Mystery that Changed Wyoming's Stalking Law

Date: July 28, 2026
Host: Beau Friedlander
Guest: Kathy Holman ("Prairie Wife in Heels")

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Overview

This episode explores a real-life cyberstalking mystery in rural Wyoming that led to dramatic personal consequences, challenged local law enforcement and judicial systems, and ultimately changed the state’s stalking and grooming laws. Host Beau Friedlander interviews Kathy Holman, a Wyoming mother, blogger, and advocate, who recounts how her daughter was targeted in an elaborate and sustained campaign of digital impersonation, harassment, and grooming, and how the ordeal exposed dangerous gaps in state legislation. The story unfolds as both a tense personal drama and a cautionary tale about the risks of online data exposure—concluding with actionable advice for digital self-protection.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Small-Town Vulnerabilities

• Kathy Holman introduces herself: city-girl-turned-Wyoming "Prairie Wife in Heels" blogger, mother of five, deeply woven into a tightly-knit rural town of 2,400 people (Glenrock, WY) ([02:03]-[04:10]).
• Beau and Kathy discuss the unique aspects of small town life—close connections, sparse law enforcement resources, and how the sense of trust amplifies betrayal.

2. The Harassment Begins: Digital Impersonation

• November 2023: Kathy’s 15-year-old daughter, Jillian, a thriving student-athlete, returns from an FFA conference to find classmates receiving disparaging texts supposedly sent by her ([05:14]-[07:28]).
• Parents question the origins; Kathy is clear about her daughter's innocence:

  "The first thing that you taught me when you gave me a phone is never put it in writing if you don’t want anyone to see it." – Jillian, via Kathy ([07:09])

• Attempts to report the impersonation to police are dismissed ("Because your daughter didn’t receive the text, there’s nothing we can do." – local police ([08:38]).
• Breakdown of how minor conflicts and tight social circles complicate trust and investigations.

3. Escalation: Widening Campaign of Abuse

• Over several months, texts multiply—targeting not just Jillian but other students, parents, and family members with rumors, sexual slander, and threats ([13:29]-[19:07]).
• Harasser leverages local knowledge to create plausible messages, fakes social media accounts, and even mimics students for more credibility:

  “Some of these messages were sent during the day. And these kids aren’t allowed to have their phone.” – Kathy ([18:03])

4. Physical Stalking and Breaking Trust

• On a school trip, Jillian receives messages referring to her appearance, demonstrating the stalker's physical proximity ([22:34]-[22:48]):

  “She realizes the person is there watching her.”

• The family’s response: maintain calm, suspect everyone, live “like nothing’s happening” to provoke a mistake from the stalker ([23:06]).

5. Breakthrough: Digital Evidence and Law Enforcement Obstacles

• An email—impersonating a teacher and using outdated slang (“snatch”)—breaks the anonymity and allows police to request a warrant ([25:58]-[28:27]).

  “That is not how a Gen Z person talks.” – Beau ([25:58])

• Delays in tech company (Google) compliance:

  “It took three months for Google to get back to them with the information.” – Kathy ([28:59])

• Evidence reveals the stalker used a burner phone and burner apps, generating endless fake numbers.

6. The Reveal: Perpetrator Unmasked

• Surveillance footage from Walmart reveals the stalker is Marcy Smith, a local parent, previously considered a pillar of the community ([37:10]-[38:22]):

  “She was wearing a mask and paid in cash… she knew what she was doing.” – Kathy ([37:10])

• Marcy had also been harassing herself to deflect suspicion.

7. Gaps in Justice: Legal Roadblocks and Sentencing

• Despite Marcy confessing, state laws fail to address the gravity of the offense ([38:59]-[44:27]):
  • Stalking treated as a misdemeanor, with no distinction for adult-on-minor or digital harassment.
  • No law defining or punishing grooming at that time.
• Result:

  “In the end... she received two years of unsupervised probation and about $1,000 in fines and a protection order for both our families…” – Kathy ([44:32])

• Judge’s condemnation:

  “There are some cases… the behavior is just evil. And that’s what I’ve heard here today, is just evil.” – Judge ([43:45])

• Personal and family fallout: panic attacks, community division, destroyed trust.

8. Changing the Law: Activism and Legislative Success

• Kathy and other families lobby to change state laws—using her blog, testifying, organizing public support.
• Reforms Enacted ([45:55]-[48:04]):
  • Grooming children is now a felony: up to 10 years in prison, $10,000 fine, mandatory sex offender registration.
  • Adult-on-minor stalking is now a felony.
  • Protection order standards strengthened to block perpetrators from schools even after the order ends.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On the Impersonation Method:

  “This is a story about how technology allows people to hide behind it and do damage that they would never think about doing if it didn’t exist.” – Kathy ([04:47])

• On the Emotional Toll:

  “She called me and she’s just asking me, what have I done? Who hates me this much?” – Kathy ([36:34])

• On Systemic Failure:

  “Because in Wyoming, stalking is a misdemeanor charge, and there’s no discrepancy between an adult stalking an adult and an adult stalking a minor… the same as a littering fine, throwing a beer can out the window.” – Kathy ([42:28])

• On Taking Action:

  “I decided after I got done crying that I was going to change the laws... If there was one thing that came from this, I was changing the laws.” – Kathy ([45:55])

• On Digital Risk:

  “All that data… it all comes from data brokers and people search sites that scrape public records and sell the rest… If you remove it, even if you use a service to remove it, it’s going to get posted again.” – Beau ([48:04])

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Important Timestamps

• [06:17] – Initial fake texts appear after FFA Convention
• [13:29] – Harassment campaign spreads to families, teachers, and the wider community
• [22:34] – Jillian realizes she is physically stalked on a school trip
• [25:58] – "Snatch" email provides breakthrough clue
• [28:59] – Three-month delay from Google reveals systemic law enforcement issue
• [37:10] – Surveillance footage captures Marcy Smith purchasing burner phone
• [42:28] – Legal limitations of Wyoming law on stalking and grooming
• [45:55] – Kathy begins legislative advocacy
• [48:04] – Summary of legislative successes: new felony laws for stalking minors and grooming

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Key Takeaways & Listener Advice

• Digital Safety
  Monitor children’s communication for tone and content that doesn’t align with their character; act immediately if something feels off.
• Report Everything
  File a formal police report for any identity-related, online harassment—even if police discourage it ([49:51]):

  “If there’s anything identity related happening… go to the police and file a report… it’s very important…” – Beau

• Ongoing Vigilance
  Data removal from people search sites is not one-and-done; continuous maintenance is essential.

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Resources

• Victim Advocacy:
  Each US county has victim advocate services. Contact them directly for support, even if you haven’t involved police yet.

• Further Information:
  Kathy Holman’s deeper documentation and resources for tech safety: prairiewifeinheels.com

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This episode is an eye-opening look at how digital harassment can devastate families, how legal systems lag behind technology, and how ordinary people can drive legislative change.

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(Summary excludes advertisements, outro credits, and unrelated show promotions.)

Transcript

[Beau Friedlander]

When you get a text from someone in your contacts, you can see right away who sent it. But do you trust the name that's. That's displayed there? This story is about what happens when you can't trust that name.

[Kathy Holman]

She was scared when she called us. We said, don't go anywhere alone. Don't go anywhere alone.

[Beau Friedlander]

Imagine not being able to tell your child who to look out for, because you don't know either. Could be a classmate, a teacher, a coach, or a mom sitting next to you at. At a game.

[Kathy Holman]

She's texting this person, who are you? Who are you? And they say, well, I'm this person. That child's on the bus with her and he's sleeping. He's not texting her.

[Beau Friedlander]

This week's episode is about stalking and grooming. It involves children, so a warning there, and it's not simple, so you're going to want to pay attention. And one more thing. What we're about to talk about could happen to literally anyone.

[Kathy Holman]

I texted that number and said, just so you know, I'm reporting this to the police. And then I blocked it.

[Beau Friedlander]

Phone numbers, schedules, family members. Not long ago, that would have taken a really long time to figure out. Now, today, it's either online for the taking, people just using social media and not being careful, or it's for sale through data brokers, or a little bit of both. Column B, column A. Everything that anyone could possibly need is available for anyone to target us. I'm Beau Friedlander, and you're listening to what the Hack, the podcast that asks, in a world where your data is everywhere, how do you stay safe online? Kathy Holman, thank you so much for joining us today.

[Kathy Holman]

Bo, thank you for having me. I appreciate you making the time and taking the time to chat with me.

[Beau Friedlander]

All right, now you have a blog, and it's been around for a while. What's the name of the blog?

[Kathy Holman]

So I'm originally from Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and I came out to Wyoming, where I currently live. Keep in mind, this was the late 1900s, okay? People were still doing this. I went to the University of Wyoming to find a cowboy and marry him. Really? And yeah, 100%, that's why I picked Wyoming. And I did. I met him at Frontier Days, which is the daddy of them all. Biggest world's largest outdoor rodeo. So we've been married for 22 years and have five children. So it's prairiewifeinheels.com and I began it 13 years ago. And so the prairie wife comes from the fact that I live in the middle of nowhere Wyoming. And the in heels is a nod to the city girl in me because I still have some of that vibe going on.

[Beau Friedlander]

I don't know much about Wyoming cowboys.

[Kathy Holman]

I guess what a lot of people know about us is we have Yellowstone, as in the park, not the TV show. But a lot of our lives are like the TV show cowboys. We're the Equality State because we're the first state to give women the right to vote. Think mountains, wide open prairies. America how it used to be.

[Beau Friedlander]

Now America how it used to be to me doesn't include suffragettes actually. So like how is that, how is that the case? So Wyoming's an interesting place because we

[Kathy Holman]

were out there feeding cows and 40 below right next to our husbands. Right. So actually I could go on forever because I'm the world's biggest nerd. But technically the reason why we were the first state to give women the right to vote is because we had so few people that that was the only way for us to become a territory and then become a state. And even now, Wyoming is the least populated state in the union with just over half a million people in the entire state.

[Beau Friedlander]

Half a million people. That's what we have in a couple of the cities in Connecticut where I live.

[Kathy Holman]

Bo, we don't even have a Costco in our state.

[Christina Quinn]

What?

[Kathy Holman]

Not even a single Costco in Wyoming.

[Beau Friedlander]

So wait, Wyoming's in the middle of nowhere, but you're in the middle of nowhere in Wyoming. Glenrock. Right. So is that what, how does, is that really, really in the middle of nowhere?

[Judge or Prosecutor]

It is.

[Kathy Holman]

There's 2,400 people. We do not have a stop light. There's just a four way stop. And like no fast food. There's two gas stations. A Dollar General just got built though. Big deal.

[Beau Friedlander]

Congrats. All right, so Kathy and listeners, trigger warning. If you don't like complicated stories, maybe this is episode is not for you because this is a complicated story. But it's also a story about stalking and grooming and that is a serious trigger warning. Having said that, Kathy, if you had to in a nutshell, say what happened? What happened.

[Kathy Holman]

This is a story about how technology allows people to hide behind it and do damage that they would never think about doing if it didn't exist.

[Beau Friedlander]

Now when this starts in, was it 20, 23?

[Kathy Holman]

Yep. Yep. Three years we've been dealing with this.

[Beau Friedlander]

Okay. Your daughter Jillian was 15 years old.

[Kathy Holman]

Yep.

[Beau Friedlander]

A sophomore in high school and had just been greenlighted to wrestle competitively.

[Kathy Holman]

Yeah. The state of Wyoming finally, they sanctioned female wrestling as a high school sport, which was a really big deal. We actually are the. We were, at least for the first couple years, the fastest growing in the nation for that sport, with how many girls are joining in and participating. So huge deal. She was thriving, absolutely thriving in every sense of the word.

[Beau Friedlander]

So Jillian's thriving. She's active in everything. And one of those things is the FFA Future Farmers of America. And, okay, it's November of 2023, and she's at the National FFA Convention in Indianapolis. That's when this started.

[Christina Quinn]

Yeah.

[Kathy Holman]

So she's at this event for ffa, came home from this event where I think there were maybe six other students. Her advisor came. There were a couple parents chaperoning. And I get a message from a parent that I know, but it's kind of like I just know because we have the same friends and our kids are in school together. And she messaged me and said she wants to talk about something that happened. And so I call her, and apparently a bunch of text messages were sent out, screenshots, and they supposedly came from my daughter. And they were speaking disparagingly about other students and about things that happened on that FFA field trip, if you want to call it that. And so I talked to my daughter, and I was like, why didn't you tell me this happens? Like, I ask you every day right when you get home from school, what happened? What's going on? And she's like, oh, mom, it's just not a big deal. I didn't do it. And I was like, okay, are you sure you didn't do it? Because I have teenagers, and they're not always perfect. And she goes, mom, the first thing that you taught me when you gave me a phone is never put it in writing if you don't want anyone to see it.

[Beau Friedlander]

Well, I mean, that's fair enough.

[Kathy Holman]

Which is true. We talk a lot about phone safety and ethics and what we expect from our children, and it's a privilege, not a right, and the responsibility. And so I believed her. And she kind of said, too, that she and her friend sat in the car and called the number that it came from a bunch of times, and no one answered. Some of the children at school were upset with her, and so she just said, here, have my phone.

[Beau Friedlander]

What were the disparaging messages? I mean, you said they're screen grabs. Did they look like they look legit? Or was there like a cut and paste name or something?

[Kathy Holman]

Great thing. That's one of the things that I said to the mom when I got back to her and said, look, Jillian said she didn't do it, but people can create these graphics. But there were things making fun of a boy named Preston talking about children doing inappropriate things. It named actual children that are in our community and claimed that two boys. Two timed. Another girl.

[Beau Friedlander]

Okay.

[Kathy Holman]

Like, they both had sex with her one after the other.

[Beau Friedlander]

Okay.

[Kathy Holman]

And then it was also talking about children vaping or just doing other things that would get them in trouble if someone chose to believe those texts or gave them to admin.

[Beau Friedlander]

Well, this is really, really troubling. Like, you know your daughter. I. I mean, I have two daughters. I know them pretty well. I've had experiences. Not. Not like this, but I've had texting incidents where, yeah, you know your kid.

[Kathy Holman]

And that's also not how she texts.

[Beau Friedlander]

That's what I was gonna ask.

[Kathy Holman]

It was out of character. Plus, the people that she was speaking disparagingly about were her friends. Like, I know the people that she would talk like that about. And it. And it wasn't. It wasn't those people. So the mom, her name's Marcy Smith. We had multiple conversations that actually dragged on to the point where I was like, can we just be done? Like, the kids didn't do this. We don't need to keep on rehashing it. We don't need to bring anyone else into this. In the end, what I did is I reported to the. Or I tried to report to the police. Someone's impersonating my daughter. The police said, because your daughter didn't receive the text, there's nothing we can do. So I encouraged the mom that called me to report it. And then there was another mom, Preston's mom. Her name is Brandy. She was involved as well because Preston received those screenshots, and some of the things were about him. And I told her to report it, and she did. This is a small town. We're talking about 2,500 people. I moved there 18 years ago with my family, so I still am an outsider when it comes to small towns. I did not go to high school there. Okay, and you're.

[Beau Friedlander]

And you're a city kid, and I'm

[Kathy Holman]

a city kid, and also, I am not. I'm a sports mom, but I never participated in sports. I'm not a fair mom. I don't. We don't do 4H. We don't do fair. We have animals. I help take care of them and feed them, but I'm not ingrained in that aspect of the Community. So this particular mom I used to have, Marcie, cut my hair. She had a friend that went to high school with her that became one of my nearest and dearest friends through the years. So I knew her by proximity, but the things she did in her free time wasn't what I did. So we never really hung out socially unless it was a group thing. And even there, as the years went on, it was more and more sparingly because again, the things I did with my time wasn't the same things that these guys did.

[Beau Friedlander]

Marcy is somebody who goes to 4H and brings their pig or whatever.

[Kathy Holman]

Absolutely.

[Judge or Prosecutor]

Yep.

[Kathy Holman]

She's ingrained in the community, multi generational ranch family. Her sister's the head secretary at the high school. Her dad is fire chief. She went to high school there. Her brother in law is a police officer at the next town. Over and over, she's very ingrained in the community. We've got a couple of crossovers. But us personally, I would maybe have said friends at some points, off and on, but mostly just like, hey, how are you doing? We're both at sports together. Our daughters both play volleyball together. But again, she didn't even have my phone number. After knowing her for all these years, just to kind of put that into perspective, I'm getting.

[Beau Friedlander]

I haven't even watched the show, but I'm getting Dutton vibes. Is that. Is that accurate or no?

[Kathy Holman]

If you're talking about a very well respected ranch family that everyone in the town knows, absolutely. I don't know if the whole like ranch mafia vibe is 100%.

[Beau Friedlander]

No, no, no. And like I said, I haven't watched it. And I do understand that like, that Dutton guy is like basically Tony Soprano, but in the. In the. So, no, like, not that. I literally just googled what the hell is Costner's name on the show and they said, John Dutton iii.

[Kathy Holman]

It's the multi generational ranch family. Everybody knows everybody.

[Beau Friedlander]

Listen. It's like the okay. And if you're from my town and I love you all, you know that. But it's the dance family. I got it. We all have that family in our hometown.

[Kathy Holman]

Absolutely. And I thanked her a multitude of times for reaching out to me about this instead of making assumptions like that's the right way to handle things. Hey, I have this problem going on. Your daughter's involved. Can our daughters talk? Can they work it out? Can we make sure we're on the same page? I looped the administration at the school into the situation, sent her screenshots of the Email. So we're all on the same page. I communicated with Brandy, this other mom. Like, this is how we're supposed to solve problems.

[Beau Friedlander]

So, Preston, the subject of these seemingly fake texts, dated Marcy Smith's daughter.

[Kathy Holman]

Yeah, they had broken up by the time this FFA situation happened. But there's 40 kids in the class. You still intermingle. You learn how to get over things. You still have to do activities together. So they were both on the trip.

[Beau Friedlander]

That was a while ago. But I don't know. Can you ever really get over a broken heart? I mean. Well, you should. I mean, or maybe you can try or it's worth trying. But anyway, fast forward a little bit. Nothing new's happened. There's been no messages, there's been no screenshots, nothing like that. And then a new message appears.

[Kathy Holman]

Yeah. And it said, hey, Prairie Wife, which is my brand name from Prairie Wife and heels. And went on to say that they were a concerned parent and they were alerted to some text and some conversations. And our daughter had been talking about how she had been giving. And I'm just going to quote it jobs in parentheses. Ew. I even hate saying that word to boys at school. And that also, Preston had a bet going on saying that he was gonna take away her V card, meaning her virginity.

[Beau Friedlander]

Now, were you taking this seriously at this point, Kathy? Like, did you think it was real, or did you think it was something like the supposedly fake screenshot that had already been discussed.

[Kathy Holman]

It just didn't sit right with me, especially with what had happened. The ew. I feel weird saying that. That's not how an adult would talk. Right? An adult wouldn't say ew. I feel weird saying job. So that was a little red flag to me because they said they were a concerned parent. So I responded with, if you're not going to tell me who you are, I'm not going to talk to my daughter about this. Nothing happened. And then all of a sudden, 20 minutes later, my phone rings, and it's my husband. And I knew. I knew. And I opened up my phone, and he is losing his mind because they copied and pasted that exact same text, changed it to Mr. Prairie Wife, which is what I used to call him when I had a radio show. I had a radio show here in town for five years, and it was the exact same word for word. I had to pull my daughter aside and take her into the bedroom. That's where we have our private conversations. And I had to say, I'm gonna ask you a question, and if Your answer is yes. We're going to talk about how you can make decisions at one time and decide that that decision no longer works for who you want to be. And stop. And if your answer is no, I'm going to believe you. So I had to tell her, and I had to ask her, are you doing this with boys? Did this happen? Is this something that's happening? And she was mortified. She was crying. And I will never. I'll never forget the look on her face when she realized that her dad got that same text. We don't think our daughter's perfect. So we asked her, is this true? Did this really happen all along the way? And so I sat down. I have access to all of her bank accounts as the mom I'm on there as a cosigner or whatever the smart word is for it that I can't think of. And I looked to make sure there hadn't been either a cash withdrawal and a large amount of money to purchase a burner phone or that she hadn't gone and bought something at Walmart and there was nothing.

[Beau Friedlander]

I mean, that is damning for the situation because now, you know somebody else is doing this, and now you have to find out who is doing this. This is, to me, like a chapter in the holy screed of dumpster fire lore. We're, like, in the dumpster fire now, you know? You know that, like, something's going on. It's not your daughter, but somebody's in it. It's almost like Clue, you know, because

[Kathy Holman]

there's only 40 people I know in her class, right?

[Beau Friedlander]

Are you starting to think that maybe it's not a classmate?

[Kathy Holman]

We had no idea. Right? There's all these things that are coming in that are making it look like it could be a child. But also, what child is going to be sending text messages in the middle of the day, right?

[Beau Friedlander]

How do you know it's not somebody who's not from your community and just really being a troublemaker.

[Kathy Holman]

So this is the thing. I have a worldwide network with my brand.

[Beau Friedlander]

That's what I was wondering about. Someone's coming at you.

[Kathy Holman]

The reason why I felt that it was someone local and so did the police, was the names. That names were used all along of real children in the community. Real children that were in that class with my daughter. And the only people that were receiving messages were people in the Glenrock community. But our school has a no phones policy. And some of these messages, because just a plethora, just started going boom to the other victim. Preston to his mom, to my older son, who is a senior. That year, things kept on being going, and some of these things were sent during the day. And these kids aren't allowed to have their phone.

[Beau Friedlander]

So during the day is a hint.

[Kathy Holman]

Yeah.

[Beau Friedlander]

Because the kids aren't allowed to have their phones. The phone numbers, to me, a little perplexing, like, how does this person have all these different people's phone numbers? But. But there's people search sites.

[Kathy Holman]

Yeah.

[Beau Friedlander]

And there's. There's other ways to get people's phone numbers.

[Kathy Holman]

Yeah.

[Beau Friedlander]

For example. All right, I'll just give you an example from my own life. I had to send someone a letter recently. We've been going back and forth a bunch, and they were doing me a favor, and I didn't want to bug them one more time to tell them. I forgot the name of an in law who I needed to list in this email I was sending, so I figured I'd just Google it. And within a few minutes, I didn't have everything I needed, and I didn't have the name of the in law I was looking for. But, man, all these other relatives were up there.

[Judge or Prosecutor]

They're.

[Beau Friedlander]

They're addresses, their family members names, other family members names, phone numbers, email. I had enough information, basically, if I was a different kind of person, to target the whole family.

[Kathy Holman]

Yeah. And they're getting minors phone numbers. They're getting children's phone numbers. So there's another child at our daughter's school that received a text that said, jillian's gonna beat you.

[Beau Friedlander]

Okay, so here's where we are. Some fake texts from Gillian's phone snowballed over months into an anonymous harassment campaign aimed at the Glenrock community. And it got. I mean, really a big chunk of the Glenrock community, if you think about it. And it got Kathy thinking that someone was targeting them, their whole family. And in the middle of this, life goes on. Gillian and Preston, actually, they've been friends, friends since middle school. They start to, as teenagers say these days, talk. And by February, it's clear they're heading toward dating. But then Jillian starts getting some weird texts about how she looks coming from someone named Al Deaver. I don't know. I feel like I should say that five times fast, and it'll make sense. Now, this name isn't a complete surprise. It's actually a fake profile that Preston uses to shop on Facebook Marketplace. It's a fake name made up by a kid, so I'm probably right about saying it fast, but. But anyway, his parents know about it. They probably haven't said it fast anyway. I'm sorry. Can't get over it. But someone cloned it here because it wasn't Preston. They took that name, and they set up a fake Instagram and started messaging Jillian, and they started messaging other. Other students at the school.

[Kathy Holman]

Basically, everything has to do with tearing down Jillian's character to others, including Preston and his family, so he won't be interested in dating her, and so she'll have privileges taken away by coaches, teachers, and us. And then trying to get her to date other boys or feel like Preston is not worthy of her.

[Beau Friedlander]

It's a little messy and a little complicated, but all you need to know is that someone is continuing to pose as different students, spreading false information, harassing people, and at this point, no one really understands why.

[Kathy Holman]

And Preston and Jillian were in communication all along. Our daughter was under strict instructions to talk to no one about this. And my husband and I talked to no one about this because we don't know who's doing this. We don't know who we can trust. So the only person that Jillian could talk to about this scary, huge thing that took over our lives was Preston, who's also a victim, her friend at the beginning, who was a part of the situation, and who also received texts from the person, her brother and her dad and I. So everything escalated. We've continued to get all of these messages. It really escalated after that first one in February to everyone. All of the victims, the family members, the community, teachers are receiving emails. And so Jillian's at this event, FFA Again, she's on a trip in Wyoming. Oftentimes you have to drive six hours, so you stay overnight. You have your teachers, you have parents, chaperones, and you have the kids. And she receives a text saying, you look hot in that skirt. I would want to tap that or something to that. Right.

[Beau Friedlander]

And what skirt? Now, how are they seeing this skirt in the first place?

[Kathy Holman]

My daughter's terrified because she did not post a picture of herself. And she realizes the person is there watching her.

[Beau Friedlander]

They're somewhere else, staying in a hotel. And the person who's stalking her must be there because it's the only way they could know how she's dressed.

[Kathy Holman]

And still none of her chaperones know. And her teachers don't know because we don't know if they are the ones that are doing it.

[Beau Friedlander]

So you think it could be maybe a coach? It could be someone.

[Kathy Holman]

Absolutely. It could be anyone. Yeah. It could be her wrestling coach. It could be her advisor. It could be One of the kids, no one knows. No one has any clue other than the police, because we have no. No clue who it is. And the game plan is, don't let them see you sweat. Keep your mouth shut. Act like nothing's happening. Live your best life, and smile. And we think they're going to get bold and brave and stupid and make a mistake.

[Beau Friedlander]

It sounds like they're getting pretty bold.

[Kathy Holman]

Yeah. So an email was sent right before this FFA trip to her wrestling coach and FFA advisor. We had no idea about that email until after our case went public. And it said that Jillian was gonna sneak out of her room to have sex with Preston, so she shouldn't be allowed to go on the trip. And that email was made to look like it came from a staff member. And that coach just deleted it because he's like, that's not Jillian. Jillian would never do that. Deleted it again. Never even talked to us about it. Cause he just thought it was stupid. And because he had no idea the depth of what had been happening. And that one we didn't find out about. And so until after our case went public.

[Beau Friedlander]

And meanwhile, Preston is getting anonymous texts.

[Kathy Holman]

Same thing.

[Beau Friedlander]

Dissing Jillian is like, don't date her.

[Lee C Camp]

Yeah.

[Kathy Holman]

And also with the FFA situation where she was scared when she called us, we said, don't go anywhere alone.

[Beau Friedlander]

Yep.

[Kathy Holman]

Don't go anywhere alone. Thank God we have the relationship with our daughter that we do that. That she played along with all these things, even though it was really hard for her. She trusted us. She knew this was in her best interest, that we were fighting for her, that we were taking care of her. So they're on the bus back from the trip, and she's texting and being, like, texting this person. And who are you? Who are you? And they say a child's name. Well, I'm this person. And Jillian looks over there because that child's on the bus with her, and he's sleeping. He's not texting her.

[Beau Friedlander]

Okay.

[Kathy Holman]

She knows it's not him. All right, so we can eliminate one person off the list because of the that. But it was someone that was there.

[Beau Friedlander]

But at some point, when you start to see, like, it can't be this. It can't be this. It can't be this. It can't be this. You start to say, it has to be.

[Kathy Holman]

You start narrowing it down.

[Beau Friedlander]

There's an email that comes in April of 2024, and it says. So you talk about leading a life of grit and grace, which is a phrase that you use a lot in your own work and the same for your kids. But let me tell you, your daughter shouldn't be a snatch. All right? That is not. I. That is not how a Gen Z person talks.

[Kathy Holman]

Yeah, try explaining what that means to a 16 year old. the time.

[Beau Friedlander]

I wouldn't know where to start because I'm not quite sure where the term comes from, but I know it's not. Ok.

[Kathy Holman]

Okay, so. So the backstory on this email is it's prom and Jillian and Preston are sophomores, so they should not be allowed to go to prom. Right. Junior, senior. But in our school they have something called the sophomore escorts. So the escorts escort people down the stage if they don't have a date. And Preston was voted an escort.

[Beau Friedlander]

Right.

[Kathy Holman]

Jillian's older brother is a senior and he's a. Obviously I'm biased. One of the nicest kids in the world. He knows Preston's going to be at prom, so he takes his sister as his date so Jillian and Preston can be at prom together. And that made that person mad. I received the email from the teacher, which, by the way, turned out to be the same fake teacher account that was sent to the coach we talked about. And I received text messages. Preston's mom received a message that was from a old man that goes to their church about how Preston's behavior at prom. Prom. Like, I think there were four to six messages that night of prom that we received. That person was mad. So we have this email that's supposedly from a teacher. Small town. I reach out to the teacher. I know her. She's taught all my kids. She said I would never speak about a child that way, which I already knew. But I needed to confirm and make sure this broke the case because we finally have an email, not an anonymous message, sent from Burner app. The police can get a warrant and find out where the email came from. Our plan worked. Live your best life, keep your mouth shut, let them think they're getting away with it and they'll make a mistake. And there we had it. Now, going back to it, I'm reading the language of the email. I see that word snatch, and I know it's not a kid because my daughter goes, what's that?

[Judge or Prosecutor]

What?

[Beau Friedlander]

Okay, so first of all, first of all, it's a movie starring Brad Pitt.

[Kathy Holman]

And I knew as soon as I saw that word it was an adult.

[Beau Friedlander]

Okay, so you got this email and you're finally able to get a search warrant that says something about our digital legislation already. But how long did it take to get any information from the search warrant.

[Kathy Holman]

Three months. What? It took three months where harassment continued. That is ridiculous to me.

[Beau Friedlander]

So the police had.

[Kathy Holman]

It took three months for Google to get back to them with the information.

[Beau Friedlander]

This is really troublesome because, as you know, I'm sure these situations sometimes end really badly.

[Kathy Holman]

Yeah, that's how kids die.

[Beau Friedlander]

So shame on Google for not getting right back to them. But this is, you know, goes to their bottom line because they don't make money saving kids from stalkers or abuse situations. They make money from ads.

[Kathy Holman]

So the information that came back was that it gave the special number for the phone that showed that it was AT and T Samsung phone.

[Beau Friedlander]

Okay.

[Kathy Holman]

And they were able to say that the same person that created that Gmail also had downloaded a burner app where you can disguise your phone number as many times as you need to.

[Beau Friedlander]

And now this person used. They were creating new phone numbers all

[Kathy Holman]

the time, every single time, because we would block. Right. So that very first instance where the screenshots were sent to these children, it was from an anonymous number that wasn't a real number. So we blocked it. But this burner app allows you to regenerate as many phone numbers as you need to. So even though every time something came in, we would block, block, block, there's an infinite number, and the police can't trace it.

[Beau Friedlander]

All right. Now, Kathy, when the police come back, when Google comes back to the police with the information, are you able then to make a positive identification of the person behind this?

[Kathy Holman]

No, because all we have is that it's an AT&T phone and that that person that wrote the email has the burner app. So then there's another search warrant that has to be taken out so they can go to ATT with that information and find out details about that specific phone.

[Beau Friedlander]

All right, and then what happens a

[Kathy Holman]

month and a half later? And remember throughout this whole time that we're waiting, we're continuing to be harassed, and so is the other victim. Things have not slowed down. Some might say they escalated and peaked with an incident that happened in July.

[Beau Friedlander]

What was that incident?

[Kathy Holman]

So in July, my daughter is at Fargo. If you're a wrestler, you understand that that's peak. There were three college scouts there to watch her. And one of the things that the anonymous texter did is they would send texts before big wrestling tournaments, regionals, and state. They specifically targeted the kids on important dates in their life, which is how, again, we knew it was someone local who was watching them and knew what they did. There was no Coincidence. So I'm with my mom and dad, who happened to be in town, and my husband and I receive a screenshot of a text message from Marcy. And the screenshot.

[Beau Friedlander]

Marcy Smith.

[Kathy Holman]

From the very beginning. Yeah, from the very beginning. Haven't like Marcy Smith.

[Beau Friedlander]

The Dutton family.

[Kathy Holman]

Yeah, the ranchers.

[Beau Friedlander]

The ranchers. The ranchers know everybody that our tribe

[Kathy Holman]

intermingles and everything like that. And I receive a screenshot from her, and it looks like it's from the anonymous texter. And it says, you better keep mine and Preston's name out of your mouth. We both blocked you on social media.

[Beau Friedlander]

But.

[Kathy Holman]

And she goes, I'm sick of this. And until this point, I didn't realize that she had been receiving texts and messages, too, because, remember, we locked the down. Not only are we not talking about it, but I have stopped interacting. We've all isolated. It was awful, but it was for our own safety.

[Beau Friedlander]

So Marcy Smith has also been getting these texts from the texter, apparently.

[Kathy Holman]

I had no idea.

[Beau Friedlander]

Interesting.

[Kathy Holman]

And so she says, I'm sick of this. And I said, we'll report it to the cops. Like, you have to report it to the cops. And she said, well, I looked, and Jillian and Preston did block me on social media.

[Beau Friedlander]

Now she's saying that Jillian and Preston are the anonymous texters.

[Kathy Holman]

And so I call her because I'm like, I'm done. I'm done. How dare you? We have gone through hell. And how dare you accuse me of that? So I call her up and I say, hey, are you saying that Jillian and I sent these? Because we did not. We have been receiving these nonstop for a year. We are victims in this as well. And she brought up again the fact that. That, well, Jillian and Preston did block me. And then she says, I don't know what your problem is with me. Your daughter will not leave. And she names her daughter her niece and her daughter's best friend alone. She's a bully. I don't know what your problem is. And at this point, I'm going, what? Because I really haven't been in communication with this woman other than, hey, at sporting events. And I'll sit next to her and say hi to her or whatever. And there's so much anger in there. I said, you know what? This is not okay. This is unacceptable. Let's go meet with admin and let's solve this once and for all. I will pay to have an outside mediator come in and participate in it. If there's counseling, if my daughter is doing this, she has to stop. It's unacceptable. And she says, I'm so sick of this and receiving the text that I'm thinking about killing myself. And I said, that is unacceptable. I am so sorry that you are feeling that way. Let's solve the problem. Let's have the ad. Let's have the principal again. I'll pay for an outside mediator. Let's get this stopped once and for all. If Jillian needs to be punished, let's do this. We need to stop this. It's not okay that you're feeling that way. And she goes, well, what the will having the athletic director do? Why are you bringing them into it? Because sports are everything. And when you get in trouble with sports, there's some pretty big repercussions, both socially and for kids that are thinking about going on at the collegiate level. It's a big deal. But if my daughter's doing that, she deserves every repercussion. And if that means she can't participate in sports, then that's what happens. A little punishment now to create a better human in the future. That's my thought, right? She's screaming, yelling, swearing. I have my mom and dad there and my husband as a witness to everything that's happening. She's screaming and yelling, and she says, well, they did block me on social media. She brings that up again, and my response was, well, based on your behavior right now, that was the right call. And she hung up on me. So I immediately call the police and have the sheriff go do a well check on her, because I don't play around with someone talking about taking their own life. That is a very serious thing. So they go and they do a well check. Keep in mind, small town. I find out that she called her husband, who's at fair with half the town, and told him that I called a wellness check on her because I said I told the police she was a bad mom, okay? Her husband's with this community of people, and they're all talking about how awful I am, about all the texts that I've been sending to everyone, and I won't quit. My daughter's best friend. Keep in mind, my daughter's at Fargo, right? Her best friend was there, tried to stand up for our family in front of all these adults, which is amazing. And then called Jillian and told her about it. And so Jillian calls me, and she's a wreck. She can't even talk. The coaches are like, what has happened? What is going on? Your daughter's having a panic attack, and we finally had to Let her coaches know what was happening and cue them in so they could care for her, because she's sorry. She's 10 hours away from me,

[Judge or Prosecutor]

and

[Kathy Holman]

she's been so good and so strong. And she called me and she's just asking me, what have I done? Who hates me this much? And meanwhile, we're just waiting for Google to get back to us. Just waiting for Google.

[Beau Friedlander]

That was during the three months when Google was taking their sweet time.

[Kathy Holman]

Yeah.

[Beau Friedlander]

Yeah, that's. That is.

[Kathy Holman]

It's appalling.

[Beau Friedlander]

Well, that's. And. And literally, it sounds like at least two lives were on the line at that during that period while Google was taking their. Their sweet time to do this.

[Kathy Holman]

Yeah. The police officer calls. The police officer calls. She says, I finally got the information back from AT T. And they said that the phone was purchased at the Eastside Walmart. She went to the east side Walmart and asked them for the video footage of that time, because they have the time and the date of when it was purchased. And she pulls it up, and Marcy Smith is on camera wearing a mask, which, keep in mind, Wyoming barely wore Covid masks, even when it was Covid. And so the fact that she was wearing a mask and paid in cash tells me that she knew what she was doing.

[Beau Friedlander]

So the person who bought that burner phone is Marcy Smith.

[Kathy Holman]

And then just to make sure, they looked at other footage. And immediately after that, she took the mask off, went and bought her groceries, and paid with her credit card.

[Judge or Prosecutor]

Wow.

[Beau Friedlander]

That's sort of almost Darwin Awards, I want to get arrested territory, but okay. To each his own. All right, so I assume here, Kathy, that Marcy Smith is arrested based on this information, and she's now serving time in a. Probably a low security prison somewhere, state prison somewhere. Stop shaking your head. She is. She's in a prison in Wyoming. End of story.

[Kathy Holman]

Yeah. No, not even a little bit, my friend. I'm sorry. No. Justice happened. We found out who it was. It took a couple days before they were able to bring her in for questioning. Meanwhile, I went into the police and they said, you need to fill out a protection order. And I said, how do you do that? And they directed me to something called the Converse County Hope center, which is our local county's victim advocacy services, which I had no idea such a thing existed. And I just want to put out there that it is the most amazing service. It is everywhere, in every state. It's your victim advocacy services. If you think you are a victim of a crime, even if you haven't even talked to the police yet. Go to them and they will help you. So we were assigned a victim advocate, who at times was the only person that gave us hope and comfort through the terrible process that followed. And she filled out a protection order with me. We couldn't turn it in until Marcy had already been brought in and questioned. So I just had it ready to go. And then we slapped it on the judge's desk. As soon as Marcy went in and confessed, which she did confess, it took her a while to get there. I have a copy of. Not the full confession, word for word, but the paraphrasing. She started out and just talked about how we had sent the text to her, how horrible it was. When the police asked, what do you think the Holmans should have to do as a repercussion for sending these texts to you and doing this, she said all she needed was an apology. And then the police officer said, well, actually, we know it was you. When I finally got the opportunity to read through the full confession, which was actually only a few weeks ago, it was insane to me. She started out acting as a victim, the whole part. And even at the end, she said she was afraid of the repercussions from the whole Coleman family and wanted to get a protection order against us.

[Beau Friedlander]

Ms. Smith, this is the judge at Marcy Smith's sentencing.

[Judge or Prosecutor]

One of the most precious things about a small town is the trust that people develop in each other in a small town, you've obviously destroyed that completely.

[Beau Friedlander]

I assumed she was just like those teachers who get obsessed with a student kind of thing, and that that's what we were really dealing with. But it sounds like she wanted all along, Preston to date one of her

[Kathy Holman]

daughters with her confession. It was all about what happened with our daughter. Right.

[Beau Friedlander]

So there's nothing about what she. Her motive was?

[Kathy Holman]

Nope. Nope. It's just. She said that she did it because my daughter bullied her and I ruined her life. That's what's in there. That's what's in the confession. That's what's.

[Beau Friedlander]

That's not a confession. That's not an apology. That's nothing.

[Kathy Holman]

But it was ownership for what she did. And so then the state, in a criminal trial, charged her with stalking.

[Beau Friedlander]

Stalking?

[Kathy Holman]

Yep. Stalking her.

[Beau Friedlander]

But she stalked hundreds of people or whatever, 40.

[Kathy Holman]

She. I think that there, in the end, I think there were 20 different people that received texts from her, maybe. But they're focused on what she did with Jillian because that's the evidence that they have. That's the police file that was opened, those are the charges they can press. Okay.

[Beau Friedlander]

Okay. So why doesn't that land her in jail?

[Kathy Holman]

Because in Wyoming, stalking is a misdemeanor charge, and there's no discrepancy between an adult stalking an adult and an adult stalking a minor. So in Wyoming, at the time.

[Beau Friedlander]

That's kind of true.

[Kathy Holman]

At the time of our trial, it was the same as a littering fine, throwing a beer can out the window. What happened to her?

[Judge or Prosecutor]

I've dealt with a lot of different stalking cases over the years.

[Beau Friedlander]

Here's the judge again.

[Judge or Prosecutor]

I spent 24 years as a prosecutor, and, you know, there's a wide range of behavior that falls within that statute. There are some where it's just really technical. Stalking, I'd say, you know, the real depth of intent is not there, but the behavior meets the statute. And there are other cases, be they felony or misdemeanor, sometimes the behavior doesn't rise to the level of a felony. I can only think of one word to describe what I see in those kind of serious felony cases and misdemeanor cases. And I've seen a few, not very many, but a few. And the behavior is just evil. And that's what I've heard here today, is just evil.

[Kathy Holman]

I've been in contact with Brandy Preston's mom, this whole entire time, and I'm not gonna deep dive into his case. It is all [e-mail] if you want to, and you'll get a much bigger picture. But when Brandi found out Marcy was the stalker, she had a police file, too. She went and looked at texts that Marcy sent from her actual phone when Preston was dating her daughter and after Preston was dating her daughter. And very clearly, Marcy was grooming Preston,

[Beau Friedlander]

grooming Preston to be for herself. So I was right.

[Kathy Holman]

Or for her daughter. Interchangeable.

[Beau Friedlander]

Oh, boy.

[Kathy Holman]

So Brandi goes to the police with this new evidence. Right? And after some pressure from Brandi. So one case becomes two case, but they treat it as one because so much of the evidence is intermixed. You may say, why are they not also doing grooming charges? Because the state of Wyoming at the time had no grooming loss. Asking a child for pictures in their underwear, which is one of the things that happened, was perfectly legal in the state of Wyoming at the time of our trial. So she has stalking charges, and in the end, she received two years of unsupervised probation and about $1,000 in fines and a protection order for both our families, where she could not go. That ended up having to be modified because she broke the original one.

[Beau Friedlander]

Is it possible that there was no law against grooming in the state of Wyoming? Because Wyoming only has a half a million people and they're all pretty nice.

[Kathy Holman]

I think as much as I love this state and love raising my children here, we're behind on a lot, especially

[Beau Friedlander]

these kinds of laws.

[Kathy Holman]

These kind of laws protecting children, mental health issues were behind.

[Beau Friedlander]

A case like this does usually attract legislative attention. What's going on in the state of Wyoming?

[Kathy Holman]

I decided after I got done crying that I was going to change the laws. That if there was one thing that came from this, I was changing the laws. I googled how to change laws. I reached out to our local senator, Brian Boner, and said, I want the laws to change. Will you help me? And he said, absolutely. And so the day of our court case, that morning at 6am an article went out, talked about how this had been happening. And keep in mind most people had no clue and that, by the way, we're working on changing these laws. I used my platform. We testified in front of Management Council, in front of the Judiciary Committee, and after some back and forth, our legislation passed it in February. We spent almost two weeks straight at the Capitol advocating and being there a year of our lives dedicated, calling upon the people of Wyoming to send emails and letters and talk to their legislators, which they did. We could not have done this without them. Brandy also helped the other victim's mom. In the end, what we ended up with, as of March of this year, grooming became defined as a crime in the state of Wyoming. And it comes with up to 10 years of jail time and $10,000 in fines. And if you're convicted, you have to register as a sex offender. And as of July 1, an adult stalking a minor is a felony in the state of Wyoming. The reason why we needed to change the law is we put in the protection order, which is highly unusual, but we put it in to protect our community, that for the length of the protection order, she could not volunteer or chaperone at schools and be near children. She has misdemeanor charges. She'll be able to pass any background check. She can go and work with children and go back to being an advisor and go back to being a chaperone as soon as that protection order is up. That is why it was so vital that we have an adult stalking a minor, a felony, because that will come up in a background check and not allow her to be near children and establishing grooming Same thing or it would have if she had been able to be charged.

[Beau Friedlander]

So you don't need to live in a small town to know everyone's business. All that data, your addresses, your relatives, your kids names and who they know even, it all comes from data brokers and people search sites that scrape public records and sell the rest. And even if you remove it, even if you use a service to remove it, it's going to get posted again. So you have to remove it all the time. I mean, with people search sites and data removal, like, you think of it more like somebody who comes and mows your lawn. It's that regular. And if, and if you're not thinking of it that way, trust me, we do this stuff all the time. It's all we talk about on this show, right? So the takeaway here is really simple. And I, you know, bring back my friend who's in law and needed their name, yada, yada yada. If I had a ton of dough, I would make sure that everyone I'm connected to loosely, was also offline, at least had a service that removed them. And the reason I would do that is because all it takes is one person having a leaky vessel as far as their online presence is concerned. And then I could be got, they could be spoofed, they could think, someone could make a deep fake. And if I'm having an off day like, boom, I'm done. Kathy Holman, thank you so much for joining us this week. It's been a pleasure to have you here. I'm sorry you had to go through all that, but thank you for joining us.

[Kathy Holman]

Thank you for having me. Thank you for allowing me to share our story. And I have tons of stuff about parents keeping kids safe, about tech. And if you want to do the deep dive into this case, just find it all at [e-mail].

[Beau Friedlander]

Okay, so the tinfoil swan this week is monitor your children's communications and if they don't make sense, get in touch with the school, the police and everyone else. Kathy did everything exactly right. Do you have a plan when somebody is playing around with the identity of someone that you love or who's under your career if you don't have one. The very simplest thing you need to do is if there's anything identity related happening in your account ever, go to the police and file a report. Now if the police are anything like they were the last time I went, they're going to say, well, that's not really something we do a report about. Nonsense. You tell them you looked it up and you need a police report and they know darn well they have to do it. They just don't want to do it because it often takes about two hours to fill out. Yeah, buyer beware. It will take a second to file the report, but it's very important because if whatever's happening continues to happen, you need that police report and that is it. So what's the lesson? Something happens to you online, identity related, file a police report. Okay, that's it for this week. If you have tips for the show, you want to be on the show. You have a story you think people should know, get in touch through the Delete Me website. And if you love what the hack, you've been listening for a while. You've listened to it since, like, back in the Adam and Travis days, and you still haven't written a review or rated it. Where you listen, please do, because it helps people find the show. All right, see you next week. This episode of what the Heck Was produced by me and Andrew Stephen, who also did the editing. What the Heck is a production of Delete Me? Which was picked by the New York Times Wirecutter as the number one personal information removal service. You should be using it already. If you're not and you want to, well, you can. Here's what to do. Go to joindeleteme.com wth that's joindeleteme.com WTH and get 20% off. I kid you not. 20%. 20% off. That's joindeleteme.Com wth now stay safe out there. See you around.

[Christina Quinn]

There are a bunch of ways to prevent crime that no one is talking about, like how wind direction can make your community more violent or peaceful and how GLP1 meds could reduce felonies. This is fighting crime where we ask the big questions. What if we've been having the wrong conversations about crime?

[Kathy Holman]

Two policies, ban the box and clean slate, don't seem to be helping, even though they sounded like they should or they would.

[Christina Quinn]

I'm your host, Christina Quinn. I'm going across the country from prisons to universities, police chiefs to inmates, to look at the evidence and question everything we think we know about how to make America safer.

[Kathy Holman]

Economists think a lot about how people respond to incentives. If we want to reduce crime and change behavior, we need to increase the costs or reduce the benefit.

[Christina Quinn]

Join us as we figure out new ways to fight crime and be prepared to think differently. Fighting crime. Listen or watch on Apple Podcasts, YouTube and Spotify.

[Lee C Camp]

Lee C camp here. If you've been enjoying this show, I think you might enjoy my podcast. No subscribe Small Endeavor Produced by Great Feeling Studios and prx, no Small Endeavor explores what it means to live a good life. We sit down with courageous, impassioned people like actor Martin Sheen or civil rights hero James Lawson to ask what it means to live a life worth living. Follow no Small Endeavor wherever you get your podcasts. Living a Good Life is no Small Endeavor and we would love to help.