Death Admin

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "Death Admin"

What We Spend | Audacy
Host: Courtney Harrell
Release Date: September 3, 2025
Episode Theme:
Alyssa, a 38-year-old widow and mother of four in northern Utah, opens up about navigating the financial shock, emotional upheaval, and relentless bureaucracy after losing her husband. This episode peels back the layers of “death admin,” the financial and administrative challenges following a spouse's death, all while Alyssa balances parenting, grief, and the realities of single-income survival.

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Main Topics & Structure

1. Setting the Scene: Sudden Loss and Financial Overhaul

• Alyssa’s Story (01:29–06:52)
  • Alyssa’s husband, primary breadwinner, dies suddenly of chronic kidney disease complications after a long health battle.
  • Alyssa, a former stay-at-home mom, faces an abrupt shift in financial security and life plans.
  • “We thought we had money if we needed it, but the worry was always, ‘Is it going to be enough?’” –Alyssa (01:43)

2. Immediate Financial Fallout & Survival Strategy

• Social Security Survivor Benefits & Life Insurance (07:22–08:42)
  • Alyssa navigates survivor benefits: $1,000/month for herself and each child, tied to children’s ages and her earning/remarriage status.
  • Life insurance payout ($250,000), invested with help from a financial advisor, provides $3,000/month to supplement expenses.
  • Alyssa’s total annual income (benefits, insurance, rental): approx. $106,000.
  • “The amount has to last me and four growing children…as long as possible, right?” –Alyssa (17:33)

3. Real-Life Budgeting and Expenses

• Candid Breakdown of Costs (09:13–10:41)
  • Monthly expenses:
    • Mortgage & insurance: $1,900
    • Utilities: $400
    • Car payment/insurance: $870
    • Groceries: $1,600
    • Pet care, phone, orthodontics, digital storage, cleaner, kids’ allowances and activities.
  • Medicaid covers health insurance; Alyssa pays $75/month for her own life insurance.
  • She has a rental unit generating $10,000/year.
  • “It just always feels like something’s coming, especially with kids and health stuff.” –Alyssa (05:46)

4. The Heavy Lift: “Death Admin”

• Overwhelming Paperwork & Emotional Toll (11:14–13:57)
  • Alyssa is thrust immediately into logistical tasks: workplace meetings, claim forms, death certificates, account closures, funeral planning, etc.
  • Describes dealing with layers of bureaucracy, unhelpful customer service, and the emotional pain of handling death documents.
  • “Every time I look at [the death certificate], I throw up…I just can’t.” –Alyssa (13:41)

5. Life Insurance: What It Meant & The Guilt of Spending It

• Receiving and Managing the Payout (15:20–18:18)
  • $250,000 check received within 30 days; family helped Alyssa find a financial advisor.
  • Emotional conflict: Guilt and pressure about spending “blood money.”
  • The payout felt simultaneously life-saving and inadequate for long-term needs.
  • “It felt like blood money…even though the point of it was to take care of our kids. But I get very anxious about spending, especially on splurges.” –Alyssa (16:28)

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Alyssa’s Week: Audio Journal Snapshots

Day 1: Groceries and Subscriptions (21:23–22:26)

• $80.16 groceries delivered (Alyssa menu plans to reduce waste), $25 car wash membership, $100 internet bill.
• “Menu planning keeps us in budget and avoids buying food that doesn't have a designated purpose.” –Alyssa (21:39)
• Total: $205.16

Day 2: Shared Lunch, Bike Repairs, and Football Gear (22:40–26:51)

• Lunch with another widow (gift card, no cost); $25 gas, $27 bike repair, $126 for football gear (for oldest son).
• Emotional reflection on public scrutiny and the pressure of being accountable to supporters.
• “If people don’t approve of my spending, will they withdraw their support? I need their help, their village.” –Alyssa (25:00)

Day 3: Family Support, Zero Spend (29:37–31:39)

• Day out with in-laws (they cover dinner & concert); emphasis on the importance of community and staying geographically close for her kids.
• “We stayed…for the kids. To have as little change as possible and be around my husband’s family.” –Alyssa (30:00)
• Total: $0.00

Day 4: Football Fees and Birthday Gifts (32:49–35:24)

• $300 football registration, $20 birthday gift for daughter’s friend.
• Conflict between wanting to compensate her kids for their loss and needing to set limits.
• “There’s only so much money and I can only do so much as one person…nobody gets everything they want all the time.” –Alyssa (35:24)

Day 5: Pool Day, Unplanned Costs Loom (38:15–39:11)

• No direct spending, but unplanned upcoming expenses loom (broken goggles, possible replacement phone after a pool mishap).
• “With kids, there’s always the propensity to spend…something always threatens the budget.” –Alyssa (39:14)
• Total: $0.00

Day 6: Overwhelm & Planning Ahead (41:51–41:56)

• No spending, but emotional check-in about managing the family’s summer schedules.
• “I’m just feeling overwhelmed right now...I’m gonna slow down and take it one day at a time.” –Alyssa (41:39)

Day 7: Swim Lessons, Bills, and Routine (41:56–42:51)

• $96 swim lessons, plus gas, electricity, car payment.
• Weekly Total: $2,082.47

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Guilt and Pressure of Survivor Finances

• Alyssa feels both empowered and burdened by life insurance and benefits—aware of privilege but always calculating longevity and justifying expenditures.
• Public visibility of her finances (due to community support and GoFundMe) brings scrutiny and internalized pressure: “If you’re poor, you should look like you’re poor…It is always surprising how many people think…we should just be living in poverty.” (28:41)

Parenting, Grief, and Wanting "Normalcy" for Her Kids

• Struggles with how much to say "yes"—wants kids to have opportunities lost due to their father’s absence, but sets boundaries based on realism and resource limits.
• Honest family conversations about financial decisions and their root in love and loss.

The Relentless Nature of “Death Admin”

• Administrative tasks around death are time-consuming, emotionally draining, and often insensitive or impersonal.
• Alyssa likens the process to “going to the DMV over and over…except everywhere are reminders of the worst thing that’s ever happened to you.” (13:34)

The Value of Resources in Recovery

• Direct connection between access to money and the ability to afford healing opportunities—such as therapy for herself and her kids.
• “There is a certain amount of, like, resources and healing that require money…in that sense, having access to money is very real healing.” –Alyssa (37:29)

Community, Stability, and Memory

• Staying close to her late husband’s family provides a sense of continuity and community, offsetting trauma and supporting memory for her kids.
• Family decisions (school, housing, activities) are filtered through the lens of legacy and connection to their father.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “It wasn’t worth more to us than him. I’d rather he be with us than have this check.”
  –Alyssa, on the life insurance payout (17:33)
• “Every time I look at [the death certificate], I throw up… I just can’t.”
  –Alyssa, on the emotional toll of paperwork (13:41)
• “If you’re poor, you should look like you’re poor… it is always surprising how many people think just because my husband died, we should just be living in poverty.”
  –Alyssa (28:41)
• “Nobody gets everything they want all the time.”
  –Alyssa, on setting limits for her kids (35:24)
• “I just feel like it really has opened up my life in a new way.”
  –Alyssa, on the visibility and judgment that comes with widowhood and receiving public support (28:17)
• “There has to be as little change as possible for the kids…and for them to continue to be around my husband’s family.”
  –Alyssa (30:00)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Alyssa’s Background, Husband’s Passing: 01:29–06:52
• Immediate Finances: Social Security & Life Insurance: 07:22–08:42
• Monthly Expenses Breakdown: 09:13–10:41
• “Death Admin” and Paperwork Trauma: 11:14–13:57
• Life Insurance: Emotions & Management: 15:20–18:18
• Audio Diaries: Day-by-Day: 21:23–42:51
• Deeper Reflections on Summer, Guilt, and Legacy: 42:51–44:50

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Conclusion

This episode provides an intimate, honest look at the financial aftermath of sudden loss—the relentless chores, difficult choices, and raw emotions behind “death admin.” Alyssa’s reflections shine a light on the pressures widowed parents face, the reality behind survivor benefits and insurance, and the immense importance of community support and careful planning. The episode is both sobering and empowering, offering insight into surviving the unthinkable with transparency and resilience.

Transcript

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[Kristen Bell]

Hi, I'm Kristen Bell and if you know my husband Dax, then you also know he loves shopping for a car. Selling a car, not so much.

[Alyssa]

We're really doing this, huh?

[Kristen Bell]

Thankfully, Carvana makes it easy. Answer a few questions, put in your van or license, and done. We sold ours in minutes this morning and they'll come pick it up and pay us this afternoon.

[Alyssa's Audio Journal Narrator]

Bye bye Truckee.

[Kristen Bell]

Of course, we kept the favorite.

[Alyssa's Audio Journal Narrator]

Hello other Truckee.

[Kristen Bell]

Sell your car with Carvana today. Terms and conditions apply.

[Podcast Disclaimer Narrator]

A heads up before you listen. This podcast is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. We are not financial advisors. You should always do your own research and consult your own financial advisor before spending or investing your money. Please note that all income, financial information and expenses in what we spend are self reported.

[Courtney Harrell]

A lot of people who lose their spouse are older, but you're really young and so you are in the position where you have to be thinking about decades of your life still.

[Alyssa]

Yeah. I am fortunate to be in a situation and live in a time where I don't have to remarry in order for financial security to be a piece of my life. Yeah. So I'm thankful for that. And I think probably the biggest thing is just the mentality of like, yeah, we have money if we need it, but the worry about like, if something goes wrong in the house is like, well, you know, it used to be he'll get a paycheck in two weeks and now it's not this endless supply that will last for forever.

[Courtney Harrell]

This is Alyssa. She's 38 years old and she lives in northern Utah. Her husband died about three years ago. He'd had health issues, but his passing was sudden and it completely upended her life.

[Alyssa]

He was the primary provider and I stayed home with our four kids and so we had a really big financial change.

[Courtney Harrell]

Alyssa and her husband had thought she could rely on his income until all four of their kids were in School. But suddenly, she needed a new plan. This week, we'll talk with Alyssa about how she managed the financial fallout and endless bureaucracy of losing her husband while navigating her grief. And we'll follow along as three years later, she's still making sure she can take care of herself and her kids. I'm Courtney Harrell, and this is what we spend. I'd love to talk about you and your husband a little bit, if that's okay.

[Alyssa]

Sure.

[Courtney Harrell]

How did you meet?

[Alyssa]

I dated his best friend and obviously broke up with that friend.

[Courtney Harrell]

Her boyfriend, her future husband's best friend had actually broken up with her. And at the time, she thought maybe she could use her future husband to get her ex boyfriend back.

[Alyssa]

And I thought, if I become his friend on Facebook, then he can help me figure out how he can make this guy fall in love with me. I don't know. I was young. I was stupid.

[Courtney Harrell]

Look, I'm just gonna use this guy to get.

[Alyssa]

We're go with it. Yeah. Yeah, totally. And so we hung out a few times, and I kept trying to kind of press for information, like, how do I get this guy to commit and settle down? And after a few times, my husband.

[Alyssa's Audio Journal Narrator]

Was like, you know, I don't really.

[Alyssa]

Want to talk about him anymore. So if you want to talk about him, that's fine, but you're going to have to hang out with somebody else. And I was like, okay, that's fine. Let's just keep hanging out. And that was kind of it.

[Courtney Harrell]

And when did you get married?

[Alyssa]

So we got married six months later.

[Courtney Harrell]

Oh, my gosh.

[Alyssa]

I know, it's wild. It's a pretty crazy timeline, but I.

[Courtney Harrell]

Have to say, to go from I'm fully trying to use you to get to somebody else to I want to spend the rest of my life to you in six months means that something magical was happening there.

[Alyssa]

100% magical. Like, I. At the time, it felt like he's never going to propose. Like, oh my gosh, what is he waiting for?

[Courtney Harrell]

You know?

[Alyssa]

And looking back now, I'm like, he, like, barely knew me.

[Courtney Harrell]

Alyssa was 22 when they got married. She'd been going to cosmetology school before, but was just working when she met her husband and quickly decided to settle down. She'd always wanted to be a stay at home mom. And two years later, they had their first kid. Then their second, third, fourth. Then two years before her husband died, he took a government job in county administration for 125,000 a year, which was a big pay bump for their Family. How did money feel for the two of you?

[Alyssa]

It was very present. It was in the room. We had a lot of expenses. I mean, kids. It's just always something with kids, especially when they were little. But there were a lot of expenses that came as a result of his health that weren't things that were covered by insurance. It just felt like something was always coming with that.

[Courtney Harrell]

His health condition was always in the background for them. The medical term is chronic interstitial nephritis, which basically meant he'd always had kidney failure without a clear explanation of why. So over the years, their family had navigated two kidney transplants and all the expenses that come with that. Then he had a third kidney transplant, and while he was still immunosuppressed, he got Covid in late 2021. He was in the ICU for six weeks before he died. When you think about that period of time immediately after he was gone, what do you think about now? Like, what stands out to you?

[Alyssa]

Honestly, a lot of it is really foggy, really hazy. Yeah. I look back on pictures from that time and I don't remember a lot of it. I mean, I think obviously I was there, I'm in this photo, but I don't remember going. I don't remember being there. And there was so much to handle financially that it was really just surviving.

[Courtney Harrell]

Alyssa knew she needed a long term financial plan, but the immediate survival strategy was to use a combination of Social Security survivor benefits and and a life insurance payout to pay their bills and buy her time. We'll talk about how the life insurance worked more in a minute. But the thing to know about Social Security is that the amount you get is the result of a very personalized equation. Here's how that works. The government calculates how much the person who died earned while they were alive, how old the surviving spouse is, and how old the surviving kids are. And that determines what you get and for how long. In Alyssa's case, she and each of her kids receive about $1,000 a month. The kids will get their benefits until they turn 18, and Alyssa gets hers either until her youngest kid turns 16, until she gets a job that makes over $23,400 a year, or until she gets remarried. But for now, she can rely on that check coming every month. How much money do you make a year?

[Alyssa]

Right now, the bulk of our income each month comes from Social Security survivor benefits, and that's about $5,000 a month that we get from that. And then we draw about $3,000 a month. From the life insurance savings.

[Courtney Harrell]

To make up that gap, let's get into Alyssa's numbers. Between Social Security and life insurance, Alyssa is making about 96,000 a year. She also has a tenant living in a mother apartment attached to their house. So she makes about another $10,000 a year from that. Her and the kids live in a three bedroom house that they bought and planned to expand before her husband died. The mortgage and home Insurance combined is $1,900 a month.

[Alyssa]

Our utilities are $400 a month and that's gas, water, garbage, sewer and electricity.

[Courtney Harrell]

She also spends $45 once a month for a cleaner to deep clean the bathrooms. Then for transportation, she spends $760 a month on a car payment, $110 a month on car insurance, and about $200 a month on gas. She also has a $25 a month membership for unlimited car washes and vacuuming. And their groceries are $1,600 a month.

[Alyssa]

It also includes things like toiletries. But yes, I have teenage boys that eat a lot.

[Courtney Harrell]

Pet care is $75 a month. Their phone bill is DOL is 120amonth. And she pays $5 a month for digital storage. Then there's a $200 monthly orthodontist bill.

[Alyssa]

This is my second kid in braces. So we finished up the first one and now it's time for the next one. And then when they're done, it'll be time for the next one.

[Courtney Harrell]

Her kids get a little money in exchange for chores. So that's a total of 125 to 140amonth, depending on how many they do. And at some points in the year, she's paying for her girl girls gymnastics or dance classes. But we talked as she was heading into the summer and didn't have those monthly expenses.

[Alyssa]

We don't pay for health insurance. We're covered on Medicaid. And then for life insurance for myself, I pay $75 a month.

[Courtney Harrell]

Alyssa got her life insurance policy two years after her husband passed. With her policy, if she dies, her kids would get $750,000, which she now knows is super important. Her husband only had the most basic life insurance policy he could get through his work. It was all he qualified for with his health condition. But still, it made a huge difference. After he died, how long after he passed were you like, okay, there's a lot of business to attend to.

[Alyssa]

It was pretty soon within the same week of his passing. I went to his work, I went to his office and met with his boss. And you know, he went through all the information with me, like, you know, this is how to collect the life insurance and here's his last paycheck. That's the payout of his like accrued time. And he gave me a list of I think 10 or 12 things to take care of. I call it death admin.

[Courtney Harrell]

Death admin. The long list of planning and paperwork and communication you have to do while you're grieving. Things like getting a death certificate, forwarding their mail, going through their will, planning a funeral.

[Alyssa]

There's the cemetery plot and the funeral program and you have to pick out, you know, pallbearers and the casket and the headstone and the funeral flowers and then paying for all of that.

[Courtney Harrell]

Alyssa's parents in law had already bought a burial plot for the entire family, so there was no cost there. But his funeral, headstone and casket cost $9,000, which was covered by a GoFundMe from friends and family. But that was really just the start of the admin.

[Alyssa]

Any accounts that would have just his name on them, all the credit cards that he had in his name, his health savings account, and then there's all the ones that we have joint accounts with that I have to call and notify that he's no longer on the account. And it's not something where just your general customer service rep can take care of you. It's always where you go through the automated system and none of the prompts are correct. And so they send you to an agent and you explain to the agent and they're like, oh, I can't help you. And I'm like, I know, will you please just sent me to your manager? And then you have to drop off originals of the documents, but there's nobody there, so you just have to drop it off and hope that someone's going to look at it and verify it. And then they mail you the originals back and then I call them again. Do I have everything I need this time? Like, kind of like going to the DMV over and over and over a thousand times. Yeah.

[Courtney Harrell]

Except like plastered everywhere in the DMV is like pictures of the worst thing that's ever happened to you.

[Alyssa]

Yes. You know, having to pull out the death certificate. Like I've only ever looked at it once or twice. Every time I look at it, I, I throw up. Like, I just can't. I don't know, there's something about just like reading it. I just can't. I don't know. Yeah.

[Courtney Harrell]

So in kind of the immediate Aftermath, you're doing all this logistics, you're grieving, you're a stay at home mom at that point. So you had been living on his income. What were you thinking about the long term income? Like, what's the dialogue in your head about what you're going to do from here to make money?

[Alyssa]

It was all over the place. I knew that I would need to go back to school to get a degree. I knew that there wasn't a way that I could make enough to provide a significant living, like not living in poverty with my four kids unless I had the income that would come from a college degree.

[Courtney Harrell]

Alyssa had friends with businesses offer to help her with a position. But at the time, her youngest kid was 2 years old, so paying for daycare meant getting a day job didn't really make sense. She settled on going to school all online so she could still structure her schedule around the kids. Now she's getting a bachelor's in Family and Human Services so that she hopes she can get a job in advocacy or mediation work. She wants to find a way to support other grieving children and families. But in the meantime, she's got the Social Security and crucially, the life insurance. How did the life insurance work?

[Alyssa]

Yeah, so I contacted the company and provided the death certificate, and then they cut me a check. So I had it within 30 days of when he passed away. And it came in the mail and I was like, what do. I've never seen a check this big in real life. Like, what do I do with this?

[Courtney Harrell]

And how big was the check?

[Alyssa]

It was 250,000.

[Courtney Harrell]

Oh, it's a big check.

[Alyssa]

Yeah, it's a big check, yeah. And I was like, what do I do with this? I don't. I can't be trusted. Why did they just send this to me?

[Courtney Harrell]

$250,000 was a lot to receive all at once. But given her situation, stay at home, mom, four kids, it clearly wasn't going to cover her expenses for long if she wasn't careful. So Alyssa's siblings joined together and paid for her to go see a financial advisor who helped alyssa invest all $250,000. Now she's drawing that $3,000 a month from the investments. How did you talk to other people about that process?

[Alyssa]

I haven't given the number to a lot of people. I've just said, you know, he had the base amount available through his work. Because I think a lot of people hear life insurance check and they think like, million dollars or, you know, they think you won the lottery. So it was really hard at first. I mean, it still is hard. But thinking about being able to justify spending that, it felt like blood money. And even though, like, I know he was intentional with setting it up and the point of it was to take care of our kids. And that's exactly what I'm doing with it. Like, I didn't go out and buy a brand new boat and we're not going to Europe, but it's still spending. It comes with a lot of guilt sometimes, even when it's things that we need, but especially when it comes to something that I would consider a splurge, like a family vacation. I get, like, I get very anxious about it.

[Courtney Harrell]

Why?

[Alyssa]

Well, because he's not with us and I would rather that he be with us than have this check. And it's not worth more to us than him. And because I worry about it is a significant amount. But not having another form of regular income, that amount has to last me and four growing children, who knows how long. As long as possible, right?

[Courtney Harrell]

What a strange balance to have, like, such a huge influx of cash, but to be like, oh, my God, I have to be as careful as possible.

[Alyssa]

Yeah, it has to last forever.

[Courtney Harrell]

After the break, we'll dive in to Alyssa's week. Here's a quick reality check. Most people don't actually know how much they're worth. Between old 401ks, random investment apps and multiple bank accounts, it's almost impossible to keep track. And when you don't have that full picture, you're probably missing opportunities to grow your money. That's why there's Monarch Money. It's a personal finance app that brings everything together into one clean, easy to read dashboard. Link your accounts and Monarch will do the heavy lifting, giving you clear data, visuals, smart categorization of your spending, and real control over your money. You will never need to touch a spreadsheet again. Plus, if you share finances with your partner, you can share Monarch, too. Monarch gives your partner full access to your shared dashboard, including linked accounts, budgets, goals, and spending activity all in one place and at no extra cost. It is not just another budgeting tool. It's finally the full picture of your financial life. In fact, the Wall Street Journal named it the best budgeting app of 2025. Don't let financial opportunities slip through the cracks. Use code [e-mail] in your browser for half off your first year. That's 50% off your first [e-mail] with code spend.

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[Alyssa's Audio Journal Narrator]

Audio diary day one we are starting a new week. It's the last week of school for my kids. I just had a grocery order delivered.

[Alyssa]

On days that I'm not going to.

[Alyssa's Audio Journal Narrator]

Be going all the way into town, I usually have it delivered. It just saves me money on gas and time. So I menu plan at the beginning of every week and that helps keep things in budget. It also helps know what we're going to be eating and so that I'm not buying food that doesn't have a a designated purpose. So the groceries were delivered and I spent about what's the total? Spent $80 and 16 cents. And now I'm gonna go work on some schoolwork while the kids are at school and the house is quiet.

[Courtney Harrell]

On day one, Alyssa was also charged $25 for her car wash membership and a hundred dollars for Internet bringing her total for the day to $205.16.

[Alyssa's Audio Journal Narrator]

Audio Journal Day 2 I just wrapped.

[Alyssa]

Up Lunch with a fellow widow friend. We have a lot of shared experience.

[Alyssa's Audio Journal Narrator]

And similarities and so we go out to lunch every couple months to talk and commiserate and share experiences and just.

[Alyssa]

Spend time with someone else who we.

[Alyssa's Audio Journal Narrator]

Feel really gets it.

[Alyssa]

So I had a gift card for lunch so I didn't end up spending any money out of my account or on my card. And then I went and topped off my tank of gas in my car. That was $25. And then I just swung by the.

[Alyssa's Audio Journal Narrator]

Bike repair shop and picked up my.

[Alyssa]

Daughter'S 10 speed bicycle. There was a hole in one of her bike tubes so we needed to get that repaired. She rides it around a lot. Her dad bought it for her for her last birthday before he died. And so it's pretty special to her and it's neon pink and pretty attached to it. So anyway, it's repaired and good to go. I'm headed back home now to work.

[Alyssa's Audio Journal Narrator]

On some school assignments for a couple.

[Alyssa]

Hours before I go to the kids elementary school to volunteer in my kindergartner's class for some end of year activities that they're doing today.

[Courtney Harrell]

The bike repair cost about $27. And later on day two, Alyssa also paid for football gear for her oldest kid. She bought pants with pads, cleats, a mouth guard and gloves.

[Alyssa's Audio Journal Narrator]

And the total for that was $126. So I don't know thinking today about spending that money on football. And I'm not normally somebody that cares that much what other people think. I have close friends and family that I rely on that their opinions matter to me and other people. I can usually take or leave it. But since my husband died there's been this layer of pressure I guess worry about the way that I spend money and the things that I spend it on and the judgments that I worry come from other people about the way that I am spending or not spending. Mostly because we get so much support from family and friends. And when I say support I mean emotional support. They don't support us financially, but they provide support support for us in so many other important ways that I absolutely need. So I worry that if people don't approve of my spending then they will withdraw their support and I need it. I just, it's too hard to parent and raise and provide for four children on my own without that support of a village. I need their support for things like carpool and helping to attend all my kids activities and things when I can't be five places at once. So there's always that worry that they will think I'm being irresponsible with our money or spending it, and that then they will quit helping us.

[Courtney Harrell]

So much of what you're saying about everything you had to deal with and the finances is very public. Like, it's. It's very visible in a way that, like, a lot of things with money aren't always. Did it make you feel like your finances were more public than they were before?

[Alyssa]

Absolutely, yes. There's always this feeling, particularly from people who have provided us different kinds of support, like people who donated to the GoFundMe. You know, we had. I don't know who it was, but someone in our community who knows us, like, went to our utility company and, like, deposited some in there to cover our bills for that for a few months. And I do feel like sometimes, like, I owe them an explanation, but I worry about the judgments no matter what I do. Are there people looking at me, you know, taking a spring break trip with my kids and thinking, oh, my gosh, I can't believe they're spending that money on a trip. And there's probably also people thinking, why have you never taken your kids to Disneyland? Like, there's I. And I never used to care about those kind of judgments, but I don't know, I just feel like it really has opened up my life in a new way.

[Courtney Harrell]

Alyssa says she's lucky. She hasn't had much explicit criticism directed at her, just a loaded comment or raised eyebrow here and there. But she does see more direct comments on the social media of other widowed friends. And she just has this sense of what's expected of her that's hard to reason away. What do you imagine people think you should be doing?

[Alyssa]

Hmm? Living in poverty. Oh, that's how I think a lot of people view widows or single moms with young kids, especially if they're receiving government assistance in any way. Like, that means I shouldn't be able to pay for my kids to play a competitive sport. That means I shouldn't have money to drive a newer car. Like, if you're poor, you should really look like you're poor. And what that means for everybody is, of course, different. But it is always surprising to me how many people think that just because my husband died, that we should just be living in poverty.

[Alyssa's Audio Journal Narrator]

Spending Journal Day three I spent nothing today, which felt great. So this evening I went with my in laws to dinner and then a concert. But they my in laws paid for dinner and for the tickets, so I didn't have to spend anything. So that was nice to just enjoy some time out with adults and I'm really close with my in laws. They're really great. That's a big reason why we've continued to stay where we are and live close to them. I am more than 2,000 miles away from my closest sibling or family member, but this is where my husband and I chose to live and raise our kids. And it didn't feel like a decision I could decide to change without him. So we stayed. Even though where we live has a higher cost of living than where my family is, I just feel like it's really important for us to have as little change as possible for the kids and for them to continue to be around my husband's family. People that remind them of their dad and can tell them stories about their dad and memories about their dad and help to keep him alive in their memory and present in their life. And so that's been a big deciding factor in us choosing to stay where we are. This afternoon I also finished up the last of my school assignments for this week. This is the first year that all of my kids have been in school all day and so it's been a.

[Alyssa]

Little bit more possible for me to.

[Alyssa's Audio Journal Narrator]

Be able to focus on my schoolwork and have time during the day to do that.

[Courtney Harrell]

Total for day three $0.

[Kristen Bell]

So you're.

[Alyssa]

About to make a trade based on a friend's text, but which u do you listen to is it we could buy a house in Tulum, get optioning those options. We could lose everything. Or let's do a little research, get your head in the trade and make the investment decision that's right for you. Learn [e-mail] TradeSmart on top of building.

[Kristen Bell]

This fake volcano for months, I give my daughter Smarty Pants vitamins to support her brain health. So her science fair project sounds more like and less like. And while I may say it's not a competition, of course it's a f competition. Choose Smarty Pants vitamins to support your kids brain health and save the science fair. Shop on Amazon, smartypantsvitamins.com or at Target.

[Alyssa]

Today.

[Alyssa's Audio Journal Narrator]

Audio Journal Day 4 Today I registered my third child for football in the fall and that was $300. And then I took my older daughter. She had a friend's birthday party tonight.

[Alyssa]

So we went and bought a gift.

[Alyssa's Audio Journal Narrator]

For her friend and that was $20. Yeah, so just thinking about the, you know, the football fees.

[Alyssa]

Of course, not one that we have all the time.

[Alyssa's Audio Journal Narrator]

Yeah, pay it once a year. But sometimes it feels like a lot to pay in One chunk. And I only let my kids pick one thing, like extracurricular thing to do per kid because it's just otherwise too much time and money and I can't get everybody where they need to be anyway. And so my boys both do football and my older daughter does competitive dance and then my younger daughter does tumbling. And so that keeps us pretty busy. But some, some of my kids would do more if I would let them. But I just think often, you know, that my, my kids have lost so much in their life and there will.

[Alyssa]

Be so many things that they will continue to miss out on or not.

[Alyssa's Audio Journal Narrator]

Have because their dad died. And if I'm not careful, I find.

[Alyssa]

Myself wanting to compensate for that loss.

[Alyssa's Audio Journal Narrator]

With money sometimes trying to fill that hole or show love in that kind.

[Alyssa]

Of way by giving them this, this thing that they want.

[Alyssa's Audio Journal Narrator]

And sometimes I, I just, I go back and forth like there's only so much money and I can only do so much as one person and what is realistic. And then there's this other part of me that thinks all day should be able to do what they want to do.

[Alyssa]

If their dad was here, they would be able to do this.

[Alyssa's Audio Journal Narrator]

And the only reason that they can't.

[Alyssa]

Is because he's not. Is it fair for them to also loose out on the opportunity to do this thing when they have no control over the reason why? But at the end of the day.

[Alyssa's Audio Journal Narrator]

I just settle on what's realistic and.

[Alyssa]

That nobody gets everything they want all the time.

[Courtney Harrell]

This feeling that you have of I want to buy things for my kids or pay for experiences for my kids as part of making up for what they've lost.

[Alyssa]

Yeah.

[Courtney Harrell]

Do you talk about that with your kids?

[Alyssa]

I do, yeah. I'm pretty open with them about things. But they, they know that I feel that way. And I'll say to my kids like let's have a discussion about this. And most actually all my kids are really old enough to, to understand that. But I know it's really common for children in my kids situation to feel like they have to grow up really fast and be an adult and worry about adult things. And I never want that for my kids. But there are just some things that they really need to understand in order to be able to understand why we live differently than some people do. But there's also things that I wrestle with telling them no about because I think they have already lost so much and there are so many pieces of that that they will continue to miss out on in life. Like their dad won't be at Their graduations. He will miss their school programs. He will miss all of their sports games and practices. And he will miss every family vacation that we take. Like, can I just let them do competitive dance? So, yeah, well.

[Courtney Harrell]

And I mean, in a real way, money can be a balm.

[Alyssa]

Like, yes.

[Courtney Harrell]

Like, I know that you. We were talking about how the impulse to try to use it to fill gaps that, like, it's not actually going to fill. And that's totally real. And it's also real that sometimes it does help to be able to go to a dance class.

[Alyssa]

Definitely. It's a very helpful coping tool. And there has been a piece of this that I always recognize as extreme privilege. But there is a certain amount of, like, resources and healing that require money, like going to therapy and counseling for me and my children. That's not free where we are. It's not covered by our insurance, even our private insurance when we had it. And so in that sense, having access to money is very real healing.

[Courtney Harrell]

On day five, they drove to a family friend's house to hang out at their place and swim in their pool.

[Alyssa's Audio Journal Narrator]

So that didn't cost anything. But life with kids is that there's always the propensity to spend for one thing or another. You know, we went to the pool and this is the first time we really swam this season. And my kids discovered that half their goggles are broken. So, you know, I got on Amazon and found some goggles, put them in my cart. I didn't check out. But another example of that, my oldest today has had a cell phone for two years, and he's never broken or lost it, which is very rare for a teenager to take care of something so well. He's very responsible. But he had it in his pocket when we went to the pool today.

[Alyssa]

And forgot and jumped in the pool.

[Alyssa's Audio Journal Narrator]

And was in there for a minute or two before he realized that his phone was still in his pocket. We pulled it out, we took it apart. You know, we've had it drying and seeing what we can do to save it. But, you know, if it doesn't, we're going to have to replace his phone. So it just feels like there's always something that threatens to annihilate the budget or the plan for spending. And that's just life with kids, right? Obviously, I wouldn't trade it. So no expenditures today, but I do feel like there's some kind of waiting in queue to be spent imminently. Audio Journal, Day six. Sunday's always the start of the new week as far as, like, My planning goes. So sitting down now with my calendar for the week and making sure I get everything transferred that's in my phone calendar onto my paper planner calendar. But I'm just feeling really overwhelmed right now and having a little bit of a mental block just with everything that this week is bringing. It's the first week of summer vacation for my kids, but I still have online classes for a couple more weeks. One of my kids starts swim lessons. One of my kids starts early morning football practices. And so just trying to figure out how I'm gonna do all of that stuff and manage the screen time and make sure everybody's eating fruits and vegetables, just goldfish and jerky. And, you know, so I'm. I'm feeling overwhelmed by the week, and so I've decided I'm just gonna go to bed. I have things figured out for tomorrow. I know my schedule and my menu for tomorrow. I have the things that we need to make dinner for tomorrow. So I'm just gonna slow down and take it one day at a time, because more than that is feeling overwhelming. So hopefully sleep will help. It might not fix it, but it won't make it worse.

[Courtney Harrell]

Total for day six. $0.

[Alyssa's Audio Journal Narrator]

Oh, my goodness. Audio spending journal. Day seven. We have really hit the ground running today. I took my youngest to swim lessons and paid that fee. So that was $96. And that's for two weeks of swim.

[Alyssa]

Lesson, private swim lessons for her.

[Alyssa's Audio Journal Narrator]

And then I just went to the grocery store after swim lesson.

[Courtney Harrell]

On day seven, Alyssa also paid her gas bill, electricity, and car payment, bringing her total for the week to $2,082.47. There was a moment in your diaries that you were. You were thinking about the summer ahead, and you got really overwhelmed.

[Alyssa]

Yeah.

[Courtney Harrell]

Is there something about the summer that's particularly overwhelming?

[Alyssa]

It's just particularly now that all my children are old enough to. To be in school all day. Having everybody home all day is a big change. Yeah. So there's that. There's that piece of it. The grocery budget is bigger in the summer because everybody's home all day and eating all day. Yeah. And the first three weeks of the summer are more overwhelming because I'm also still doing class. And so there's that, like, I still have to try to squeeze that in between everything else that's going on and find a quiet moment.

[Courtney Harrell]

There's also the trips this summer. There's a football camp and a couple camping trips and a church youth camp. Plus they're all going to family reunions for both Alyssa's family and her husband's family. And of course, all of that comes with a big mess of feelings and questions on a loop in Alyssa's head. My kids should get this right. What will people think? What if I need the money we spent on this trip three years down the line? But when Alyssa steps back, one thing always stands out to her about these expenses. The kids are picking ways to spend their time that connect them to their dad. Football. Just like their dad played dance, which they love because he did ballroom dance and danced with them all the time.

[Alyssa]

And the same for when we've done family vacations. We go places where we went with their dad and we can remember, hey, remember when we were here with dad and he tried that candy and it was so gross and he spit it out? Do you guys remember that? Or, you know, this is the park that we used to always go to when we lived around the corner, Things like that continue to incorporate him in our lives and keep those ties with him and keep him present for them. And that's extremely important to me.

[Courtney Harrell]

What We Spend is An Odyssey Original podcast. It's written and hosted by me, Courtney Harrell. Our producers are Margo Gray, Kristin Torres and Justine Dahm. Our editor is Jonathan Menhivar. Our executive producers are Maddie Sprung Keyser, Asha Saluja and Leah Rhys Dennis. Theme song and original Music by Matt McGinley. Additional music from 8pm Music mixing by Pedro Alvira. Special thanks to Zach Clark, Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Kurt Courtney, Hilary Schuff, Sean Cherry, Laura Berman and Hilary Van Ornam. If you want to be on what We Spend, we'd love to hear from you. Write us at whatwe spend podcastmail.com we'll be back next week.

[Expedia Trip Planner Narrator]

Mike and Alyssa are always trying to outdo each other. When Alyssa got a small water bottle, Mike showed up with a 4 liter jug. When Mike started gardening, Alyssa started beekeeping.

[Alyssa]

Oh come on.

[Expedia Trip Planner Narrator]

They called a truce for their holiday and used Expedia Trip Planner to collaborate on all the details of their trip. Once there, Mike still did more laps around the pool.

[Alyssa]

Whatever.

[Expedia Trip Planner Narrator]

You were made to outdo your holidays. We were made to help organize the competition. Expedia Made to Travel Hi, I'm PJ.

[PJ Vogt]

Vogt and I want to tell you about my podcast search engine. We try to make sense of the world one question at a time. No question too big, no question too small. We will even answer your questions if you send them in. Stuff like what happens when a cemetery goes out of business. What should we do about teens using AI to do their homework. Who buys luggage at the airport luggage store? Follow and listen to Search Engine in partnership with Odysee wherever you get your podcasts.