Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant

Summary

What We Spend: Episode Summary - "Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant"

Release Date: May 14, 2025
Host: Audacy
Episode Title: Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant

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Introduction

In the episode titled "Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant," host Courtney Harrell delves into the financial realities faced by Victoria, a 30-year-old preschool teacher's assistant from New Jersey. Through a blend of interviews and Victoria's personal audio diaries, the podcast paints a vivid picture of the challenges and sacrifices involved in maintaining financial stability on a modest income.

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Background: Victoria's Financial Situation

Victoria shares her journey from a modestly paid office manager to her current role as a teacher's assistant. Despite her passion for working with children, Victoria grapples with financial instability, highlighted by her annual income of $35,000, which dwindles to approximately $29,000 after taxes. This figure excludes essential expenses like health and dental insurance, placing her in a precarious financial position.

Notable Quote:

"For Victoria, the biggest challenge is the salary. It's no secret that teachers don't make a lot of money in the US, but Victoria makes even less because she's still working towards her teacher's license."
[02:39]

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Daily Expenses Breakdown

The podcast provides an in-depth look at Victoria's monthly expenses, revealing how her limited income is stretched thin across various necessities:

• Housing and Utilities: $1,340
• Phone Bill: $125 (includes Netflix)
• Transportation: $100 (gas and tolls)
• Groceries: $400
• WiFi: $120
• Gym Membership: $50
• Entertainment and Subscriptions:
  • Crunchyroll (Anime Streaming): $12
  • Turtle Care: $20
• Debt Payments:
  • Student Debt: $525
  • Credit Card Debt: $300
  • Medical Debt: $125
• Insurance:
  • Dental Insurance: $9.70
  • Health Insurance: Subsidized from $599 to $125.22

Notable Quote:

"How much wiggle room do you have?"
[11:05]
"Like, no wiggle room. I didn't realize how much, how fast I would use into the savings that I had as an office manager."
[11:14]

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Challenges and Emotional Impact

Victoria candidly discusses the emotional toll her financial struggles have taken on her life. The stress of making ends meet affects her personal relationships and mental well-being. She feels isolated, especially when her friends are more financially stable, leading to feelings of shame and guilt.

Notable Quote:

"I'm stressed that I found love, but I cannot afford marriage or children. It's a massive sacrifice, everything."
[23:50]

Additionally, Victoria highlights the difficulty of maintaining a balanced life, juggling her demanding job with minimal financial resources. The exhaustion from work often leaves her unable to monitor her finances effectively, exacerbating her debt situation.

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Financial Struggles and Debts

Victoria's debt is a significant barrier to financial stability. With $525 monthly payments for student debt, $300 for credit cards, and $125 for medical debt, her obligations consume a large portion of her income. These debts limit her ability to save and invest in her future, such as obtaining her teaching license.

Notable Quote:

"I used up like 20k in the past 3 years."
[12:19]
"I have nothing. I really feel like I should just continue with the license and not get distracted, but it is very, very scary. Like just the financial aspect. I have so much debt already."
[12:53]

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Insurance Issues

Navigating insurance has been another complex aspect of Victoria's financial landscape. While she secured dental insurance, it does not cover adult orthodontics, which is essential for her oral health. The limited coverage options and waiting periods present additional financial strain.

Notable Quote:

"The worst thing that I found out with all these insurance companies was that the only one Delta Dental, it takes like a year of having it, and only then adult orthodontics coverage kicks in."
[22:05]
"Why do you not cover adult orthodontics? And I'm like, why?"
[22:19]

---

Plans for Improvement

Despite her current hardships, Victoria remains determined to improve her financial situation. The primary avenue for change is obtaining her teaching license, which promises a substantial salary increase—from $35,000 to potentially $65,000 annually. However, the path to certification is fraught with challenges, including the significant costs (estimated between $10,000 to $30,000) and the time required to complete the necessary coursework alongside her job.

Notable Quote:

"If you got your license, the insane jump is 35 to 65,000 a year. I would be making like double than what I'm making now."
[30:11]

Victoria acknowledges the financial burden of pursuing her license but views it as a necessary investment for long-term stability and the ability to pay off existing debts.

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Conclusion

"Getting by as a Teacher's Assistant" offers a poignant exploration of the financial and emotional challenges faced by individuals working in low-wage educational support roles. Victoria's story underscores the broader issues of income disparity, debt management, and the quest for professional advancement in achieving financial security. Through her candid disclosures and detailed expense tracking, the episode sheds light on the often-overlooked struggles of those striving to balance passion with economic viability.

Final Thoughts:

"Between day one and day seven, I ended up spending $2,300.94. How much does it cost to get your teacher's license? Between 10 and 30,000, and how long will that take you to have that done?"
[29:46]
"It would be nice to have like the 10 or the 20,000 in my account for emergencies. But now I have like nothing."
[12:24]

Through Victoria's narrative, "What We Spend" invites listeners to reflect on the financial pressures faced by educators and the systemic challenges that hinder their professional and personal growth.

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Credits:
Written and hosted by Courtney Harrell.
Produced by Margo Gray and Kristen Torres.
Edited by Jonathan Menhivar.
Executive Producers: Mari Sprunkheiser and Leah Rhys Dennis.
Theme Music by Matt McGinley.

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For more insights into personal finances and the stories behind everyday spending, subscribe to What We Spend and consider sharing your own experiences.

Transcript

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A heads up before you this podcast is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. We are not financial advisors. You should always do your own research and consult your own financial advisor before spending or investing your money. Please note that all income, financial information and expenses in what we spend are self reported.

[Courtney Harrell]

Is there a time in your life when you felt the most financially at ease?

[Victoria]

Mm, Looking back, yes.

[Courtney Harrell]

When was it?

[Victoria]

I mean I didn't really make much as an office manager. I made like a pretty standard 55k. But I was getting like you know, salon blowouts and I had some. I was walking around in like nice heels and pretty bags and going to town and it was, it was a nice time. Yeah, I felt pretty, pretty good about myself and that was just on 55k. But like I they say like 100k in New Jersey is actually like more livable.

[Courtney Harrell]

This is Victoria. She's 30 and lives in New Jersey.

[Victoria]

And for work I am a preschool teacher's assistant.

[Courtney Harrell]

How old are the kids in a preschool?

[Victoria]

4 years old.

[Courtney Harrell]

What is it like to be with 4 year olds all day?

[Victoria]

Oh I love it. They're really sweet. Wonderful.

[Courtney Harrell]

The idea of spending all day with four year old sounds really fun and also challenging. That's the word I Would pick.

[Victoria]

Yeah.

[Courtney Harrell]

For Victoria, the biggest challenge is the salary. It's no secret that teachers don't make a lot of money in the US But Victoria makes even less because she's still working towards her teacher's license. As a teacher's assistant, Victoria makes 35,000 a year. 29,000 after taxes. And that doesn't include health or dental insurance. At 30, Victoria is starting to feel desperate for a little more stability than 35k can give her. And there is one thing that would change her salary dramatically. Getting that teaching license. But that costs money. It costs time, and Victoria doesn't have either right now. This week, we'll hear what it's like for Victoria to get by on a teacher's assistant wage while she tries to answer some big questions. How do I make my situation better? How can I set myself up for the life that I want? I'm Courtney Harrell, and this is what we spend. What was money like growing up?

[Victoria]

Tight. Like, it was. It was bad.

[Courtney Harrell]

It was bad. What does that mean?

[Victoria]

Yeah, no, it was like, you know, I was. I had, like, a lot of, like, hand me downs, and it was always, like, arguments in the house about, like, finances. Oh, my gosh. You spent a, B and C without telling me. Oh, my gosh, the mortgage was due. What are you gonna do now? So growing up, I knew money was, like, an important thing.

[Courtney Harrell]

Did you worry about money growing up?

[Victoria]

Yeah, all the time. And my mom would tell me everything, every little detail. This cost this. This cost this. I can't do this. And then, like, I mean, even in my college life, I was in college and I had no laptop. And then I was a resident assistant trying to save money for that, but then you would have to, like, walk a mile to get to the computer lounge at, like, midnight. And. And, like, it affected my studies. Yeah. So, like, it was just, like, a struggle.

[Courtney Harrell]

Victoria graduated with a degree in art administration. She thought she might be a curator in an art gallery, but she quickly found that those jobs didn't pay enough. So after college, she experimented with a lot of different ways to make money, from working as an assistant to teaching piano lessons, to teaching yoga, to learning to code.

[Victoria]

So, like, I've been doing around, like, trying. Trying to find, like, a niche or. It's just difficult, you know, Sometimes you just want to rely on that salary.

[Courtney Harrell]

So how did you end up getting to preschool? Teacher assistant.

[Victoria's Audio Diary]

So.

[Victoria]

I was working actually, at one of the mayor's offices. I was having some health issues, and so I was just like, I need to. I Just want to take a step back and maybe find a different profession. It still felt kind of empty. And a lot of the co workers that I've worked with throughout the time, they were all like, oh, Victoria, like, you should. You should be a preschool teacher. You're, like, so kind and caring and patient. Like, I don't know why you're here.

[Courtney Harrell]

So, like, that moment for you was in part, like a. I'm gonna go find something where I feel more engaged.

[Victoria]

Yeah, exactly.

[Courtney Harrell]

Victoria did think being a preschool teacher might be a good fit because she knew that she loved being with kids. Growing up, her mom was actually a home daycare provider.

[Victoria]

I was also, like, I was her little helper. I loved reading to the kids. I loved, you know, playing, and I absolutely love preschool. And I find it so important because most brain development in children happen from, like, up till age 5. So even if I was a kindergarten teacher, like, that is. That is where all, like, it's just incredible. Like, I go in and some of these kids are reading. Some of these kids are, like, you know, picking up on language. Two, three languages with. Just chatting with their friends. Like, yeah, it's. People underestimate how much their child knows at that or has the ability, like, has the capability of.

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah, but it's clear you, like, you really care about it.

[Victoria]

I. I love it. I care about it. I love it. And, like, those first two years was challenging. It was tough. I went back and forth. I was like, should I just go back to being an office manager? Like. But no, like, I. I genuinely enjoy it. I'm happy throughout the day. Like. But then, like, I come home and I'm like, I can't pay my bills. I can't always eat. And, like, I hate asking my boyfriend for money. I really hate it.

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah. You said I can't always eat.

[Victoria]

Yeah, Well, I mean, you know, I'm trying to budget and save, and I just. I don't know, taking the time to go all the way to my parents instead of just like, I'll just eat, like, cereal or, like, make an egg or have, like, a potato, you know? Yeah. So, like. Yeah, just try to make it work.

[Courtney Harrell]

Do you talk to them about your financial situation now?

[Victoria]

I mean, now it's been pretty embarrassing. Like, I'm like, mom, I need a hundred bucks. Like, it's so bad. Like, I want to cry every time. I'm like, I don't want to even bother them. Or she'll. She won't even. Like, I don't even ask her. Sometimes she'll Just put, put a little bit, like $50, whatever. Because she doesn't make much, but she'll put a little bit in there and be like, you're Victoria. Just thought you might, you know, need it.

[Courtney Harrell]

Let's go into Victoria's numbers. As you know, she makes $35k a year before taxes. She lives with her boyfriend, who tends to cover the rent and food. His income varies. He works on cargo and with cars, but it's always less than 80k before taxes and their expenses.

[Victoria]

So starting with housing, $1340 for utilities. Then I have for my phone bill. The125 actually has Netflix included.

[Courtney Harrell]

She drives almost an hour to get to the preschool, so she spends about 100amonth on gas and tolls. She does own her car, but it's on its last legs.

[Victoria]

Yeah, an animal chewed through the wire on Monday. Then I took it in, they said they fixed it. And then as I'm about to get on the parkway, the whole thing, like, it's like a Christ, it's like flashing. And then like the car starts shaking and I'm like, oh my God. Next trip is to the junkyard. I'm done.

[Courtney Harrell]

Groceries, 400 wifi, 120.

[Victoria]

Okay. Gym membership, $50. But my boyfriend's company kind of like gives us money back at the end of the year for that. Crunchyroll. I love my anime.

[Courtney Harrell]

Wait, what is Crunchyroll?

[Victoria]

It's a streaming platform. It has just a bunch of anime.

[Courtney Harrell]

Crunchyroll is $12 a month.

[Victoria]

Turtle care.

[Courtney Harrell]

Like a pet turtle?

[Victoria]

Yeah, I have a pet turtle. Yeah, his name is Sir Wallace.

[Courtney Harrell]

Turtle Care is $20 a month. Digital storage, $1.99. Therapy, $60. Medication, 25. And she's got a few different debt payments. 525amonth for student debt, 300amonth for credit card debt, and 125amonth for medical debt. And then there's insurance.

[Victoria]

Yeah. So dental insurance, $9.70.

[Courtney Harrell]

And did you qualify for Medicaid?

[Victoria]

No. Apparently 35,000 is too much. It's really stupid. I got really lucky because Get Covered New Jersey has this tab that says something like we can help. And they really do help.

[Courtney Harrell]

Get Covered New Jersey is a state run website. It helps residents compare health plans and apply for financial aid to lower monthly premiums.

[Victoria]

My premium, I think it's like $599 a month. But like with federal and state subsidies, like I have it down to 1 25, 22 cents.

[Courtney Harrell]

How big is the, like, margin between what you make and Your regular bills every month. How much wiggle do you have?

[Victoria]

Like, no wiggle room. I didn't realize how much, how fast I would use into the savings that I had as an office manager. Just like went so fast and I wasn't, I don't know, like, I think part of me was, I don't know. I feel like with every teacher's assistant there's like this period of adjustment. It's like working with children is such a like learning curve that like, I don't know, I was just so exhausted, like with taking care of 15 kids for the whole day, five days a week. Right. So like there was times like I would come home and I was just so exhausted I would go to bed and. Yeah, I don't know. Like, I just wasn't really. I stopped looking at my account so much. I was just like paying bills. I wasn't even like thinking. I was just like, okay, yeah. And then I realized I was like, oh my gosh. A lot of like the luxuries I had like, was actually from that other income, which I now don't have.

[Courtney Harrell]

How big was your savings before?

[Victoria]

I used up like 20k in the past 3 years.

[Courtney Harrell]

How big is your safety net now?

[Victoria]

Not really there. I mean like I put like, I still put a lot of money in my 401k, my Roth IRA. The Roth IRA is only like maybe just $2,000. And then like my other stuff is like $10,000. I somehow got like really behind.

[Courtney Harrell]

What would not behind look like to you? Like where is it that you think.

[Victoria]

You should be like? I mean, I'm 30 years old. It would be nice to have like the 10 or the 20,000 in my account for emergencies. But now I have like nothing. I really feel like I should just continue with the license and not get distracted like I keep doing. But it is very, very scary. Like just the financial aspect. I have so much debt already. I don't want to take out more loans. Yeah, I don't know, it's, it's, it's overwhelming.

[Courtney Harrell]

After the break, we'll dive into Victoria's.

[Victoria]

Week.

[Courtney Harrell]

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[Victoria]

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[Victoria's Audio Diary]

Audio diary Day 1 Today is Sunday and I like to visit my parents at least once a week. So it being Sunday I headed there in the morning. I took tolls and it cost me $3.55. Breakfast with my parents costing me nothing. I had a banana, avocado and some tea. I went to mass with my mom and then headed to do a grocery shop. Grocery shop lentils costed me $4.24. Nutter butter cost me $6. I have a gluten allergy so my gluten free bread cost me $6.99. I bought an 18 pack of eggs for $5.49. I bought some lactate for $4.69. Some shredded cheese for our omelets, a pack of hot dogs for $2.99, frozen meals for $3.19 each. Yeah, so Food Town's coupons was $8.40 and the grand total at Foodtown was $45.95. The entire day tolls and grocery ended up equaling $50 for Sunday Audio Diary Day 2 Today is Monday and I had a bit of a rough start in the morning. Usually I wake up at 5am but I slept until 6am My boyfriend also works a part time job as a loader so he only came home around 1am and it was hard to sleep without him near me. So anyway woke up, I put the Keurig on, made a cup of coffee, got dressed and I ran out of the door. Once I got to school with some time to spare, I went and ordered a bacon cheddar omelette bite for $4.99. The tolls going and coming back ended up being $3.55. So usually a day for me is I go to school, find parking. Today I was at work at 7:50 as a teacher's assistant. For the four year olds, part of our job is to set the table.

[Victoria]

For breakfast, put out the placemats.

[Courtney Harrell]

Victoria's preschool provides breakfast and lunch for the students, which means Victoria can often get a free meal too.

[Victoria's Audio Diary]

Today I'm lucky. The school is serving tuna and salad and being gluten intolerant I can eat that for free. And then when I get home I end up doing another food shop, this time at Stop and Shop and then my total bill comes up to $52.54. And then at night my credit card was set to auto pay so $74 came out of my account. And overall today I spent $135.08.

[Courtney Harrell]

By the end of day two, Victoria is getting by as she normally does. But then a couple of things shake her off her balance.

[Victoria's Audio Diary]

Audio Diary Day three Car Insurance I have a bundled policy, car renters and life insurance. But right now, today I found out my car Insurance increased by $42.22 with some kind of a New Jersey PL IGA surcharge, which I still don't know what that is but gotta call them tomorrow about it. Then comes dental insurance. My plan cost $41 but I found out yesterday it will increase to $45. And this doesn't cover adult orthodontics which was the primary reason for enrolling in it. And it seems like I call everywhere like Aetna Cigna and it seems like only Delta Dental has the adult braces orthodontics coverage.

[Courtney Harrell]

It's not just that Victoria wants braces, she really needs them. Her problem started with some tooth pain about eight months ago.

[Victoria]

I don't know, my mouth started killing me. I couldn't chew like it was painful. It was, it was really really intense Pain and sensitivity. There was the whole, like, colds, hots was affecting me.

[Courtney Harrell]

Could you eat?

[Victoria]

I could eat, but it was like I was slowly toward. Especially by July, like, I was getting, like, I just wanted to eat soft things, but slow chews and just. Yeah, trudging through it. It was bad. And so then I was like, oh, shoot, like, I really need dental insurance. And that's when I started looking for dental insurance policies that would help. But, like, yeah. And then so July, I'm like, on the trip with my mom and dad and stuff, right? Like, and I'm like, in the middle of the Colorado mountains, like, calling my dental provider, like, trying to find dental insurance. Like, please, can you, like, can we start this right away? I'm, like, dying here.

[Courtney Harrell]

She eventually got on the dental plan that she's paying for monthly now, and she rushed to the dentist.

[Victoria]

They did the X rays, they found a cavity. And then they told me, victoria, if you don't get prop, like, you don't. You don't need, like, just straight teeth. Like, you need to, like, fix your overbite. Because I could lose my teeth because of how much pressure is going under. Because there's like, it's an overbite and there's crowding and then there's like, some other stuff. So now that's still pending right now, like braces or, you know, something to fix my teeth. So that. That's in pending mode, right?

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah.

[Victoria]

But the worst thing that I found out with all these insurance companies was that you the only one Delta Dental like you, it takes, like a year of having it, and only then adult orthodontics coverage kicks in through private insurance.

[Courtney Harrell]

But a year is a long time.

[Victoria]

A year is a whole long time. And most of the dental companies, like, don't even, like, cover adult orthodontics. And I'm like, why? Why?

[Courtney Harrell]

In addition to paying for her insurance on day three, Victoria also paid rent, her Internet and utilities, bringing her day's total to $1,840.19. Summer's here, and Nordstrom has everything you need for your best dress season ever. From beach days and weddings to weekend.

[Victoria]

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[Courtney Harrell]

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[Victoria]

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[Victoria's Audio Diary]

Audio diary. Day four. For the first time, I hung out with one of my friends. And I actually hadn't seen her in three years because, you know, I've been cutting everything. I've been cutting, hanging out with friends, I've been cutting out, going out to eat. I like do my own waxing, my nails, my hair. I've tried to cut everything. So I save. It's quite isolating. Yeah. And it's also like, personally in my.

[Victoria]

Personal life, like, I'm just, I am.

[Victoria's Audio Diary]

Stressed about being 30 years old and only making 35,000. I'm also stressed that I found love, but I cannot afford marriage or children. It's a massive sacrifice, everything.

[Courtney Harrell]

Are there other people in your life that have a similar relationship with money and financial situation as you right now?

[Victoria]

You know, actually most of my friends are doing really well. They're doing like, they're doing amazing. I'm really happy for them.

[Courtney Harrell]

You said it's really isolating.

[Victoria]

Yeah, because there's still that like shame and guilt. At one point I'm like telling some people and then they're still like, oh, man. Like, people are getting married. Like, so many of my friends married, kids, like, yeah, it's hard.

[Courtney Harrell]

So Victoria was sitting with that feeling and then she thought about this experience she had that made her feel like she was even more underwater than she thought. Recently, she was talking to someone at the bank and they told her a stat she hadn't heard before.

[Victoria]

If you're middle class, you're making 100k. And I'm like, holy shit. I've just been like low class, lower class the whole time. Maybe there was like a few months where I was feeling really good about myself. But then going walking into the bank, my God, like, that was the most like face slapping moment. Like, I don't know, like, tell me why. Because like, I, I thought 55, 60, 80 was great. Yeah, it was kind of like this moment of realization that maybe my friends who are doing well, like I'm in some kind of like a bubble, like, because we're all doing 50 to 80k, right? Oh, this is great.

[Victoria's Audio Diary]

Right?

[Victoria]

But like, then it got me, like when he said 100k is like middle class, I was like, I guess all my friends are lower class. So that means there's gonna be like 100 to 200k people and then there's going to be millionaires. It was definitely like a holy shit. Like there's a whole middle class and then there's a whole, like, different playing field.

[Courtney Harrell]

On day four, Victoria paid $18.12 for Spotify. Which brings us to day five.

[Victoria's Audio Diary]

Audio diaries. Day five. I woke up at 5:30am, had my Keurig coffee and some pumpkin bread that I had made the day before and then I left for work. The tolls for today was $3.55. I got to school. Breakfast today, luckily was eggs and they had some oranges, so I ate that for free. Lunch. Unfortunately wasn't gluten free, so I only drank some milk and then I got home after that, cooked some kielbasa macaroni and cheese and some green peas. And that was about it for today. The total expenditure was $23.55.

[Courtney Harrell]

Day six.

[Victoria's Audio Diary]

Our school follows Eckers. That's an acronym. It's E, C, E R S and T Pot, T P O T. ECKERS.

[Courtney Harrell]

And Teapot are evaluation tools that teachers use in the classroom.

[Victoria's Audio Diary]

So like throughout the day, we're incorporating Eckers and Teapot into our curriculum. Teapot is like social, emotional, having the kids like they're learning how to interact with each other for the first time and you know, how to share, how to be kind, you know, also like how to deal with strong emotions, like when you're upset or angry, how to cool down, like breathing exercises, take a deep breath, count out loud, and then 1, 2, 3, 4. Yeah, and like, it's really sweet. I think like the past three years I've learned so many cool and very sweet techniques to like calm down and relax and be more mellow in life. So yeah, no, it's really nice.

[Courtney Harrell]

On day six, Victoria bought a gift for an upcoming holiday, bringing her total for the day to $84. Day 7.

[Victoria's Audio Diary]

Earlier this year I was watching a documentary about kids and like child development, brain development, and actually between like up till age 5, it's just like the brain is super active and like that's when it's like the best time. They can like learn language and they just absorb everything. They really are little sponges. So I love working with the 4 year olds. I think it's just they're so sweet. They're super fun and interesting to work with and both the teachers and the kids have been very kind. I have a really good class this year. I'm enjoying it and hopefully I can get my license soon.

[Courtney Harrell]

On day seven, Victoria bought one more holiday gift. Coffee and a snack, bringing her total for the week to $2,300.94. How much does it cost to get your teacher's license?

[Victoria]

Between 10 and 30,000.

[Courtney Harrell]

And how long will that take you to have that done?

[Victoria]

You know, I think I would have to do like night classes or something. Right. So it would have to be after I teach maybe two classes a semester until I finish. I don't like. I really have to talk to someone and get a proper timeline.

[Courtney Harrell]

And if you got your license, the.

[Victoria]

Insane jump is 35 to 65,000 a year. 65. I'd literally be making like double than what I'm making now, right?

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah. How does that amount sound to you?

[Victoria]

No, it sounds amazing. I know 65 is still low, but it would just I would be able to pay for rent. I would maybe save up for a car. It would pay off my bills. Yeah, it is like livable.

[Courtney Harrell]

What We Spend is an Odyssey original podcast. It's written and hosted by me, Courtney Harrell. Our producers are Margo Gray and Kristen Torres. Our editor is Jonathan Menhivar. Our executive producers are Mari Sprunkheiser and Leah Rhys Dennis. Theme song and original music by Matt McGinley. Additional music from APM music mixing by Pedro Alvira. Special thanks to Melissa Akiko Slaughter, Joel Lovell, Jenna Weiss Berman, J.D. crowley, Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Kurt Courtney, Hillary, Chef Sean Cherry, Laura Berman and Hilary Van Ornam. If you want to be on what We Spend, we'd love to hear from you. Write us at whatwe spend podcastmail.com.

[Klarna Representative]

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[Victoria's Audio Diary]

Do.

[Uber Representative]

You know what went down at the Viper Room the night River Phoenix died? Or how about the mysterious death of Brittany Murphy? Are you aware of how Steve McQueen escaped murder at the hands of the Manson family? The obsessive killing of Dorothy Stratton? The real life murder that inspired David Lynch's Twin Peaks? The three conspiracies surrounding Marilyn Monroe's death. These stories and more are told in the Hollywoodland Podcast, where true Crime and Tinseltown collide. Hollywoodland is hosted by me, Jake Brennan, creator of the award winning music and true crime podcast Disgraceland. Follow and listen to Hollywoodland wherever you get your podcasts.