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- [00:01]
Courtney Harrell
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Dan
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Courtney Harrell
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Dan
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Courtney Harrell
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Dan
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Courtney Harrell
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- [00:26]
Dan
Cart for an exclusive free gift with $65 purchase.
- [00:31]
Courtney Harrell
Hi, I'm Kristen Bell and if you know my husband Dax, then you also know he loves shopping for a car. Selling a car?
- [00:36]
Dan
Not so much.
- [00:37]
Courtney Harrell
We're really doing this, huh? Thankfully, Carvana makes it easy. Answer a few questions, put in your VIN or license and done. We sold ours in minutes this morning.
- [00:46]
Dan
And they'll come pick it up and.
- [00:47]
Courtney Harrell
Pay us this afternoon.
- [00:50]
Dan
Bye bye Truckee.
- [00:51]
Courtney Harrell
Of course we kept the favorite.
- [00:54]
Dan
Hello other Truckee.
- [00:56]
Courtney Harrell
Sell your car with Carvana today. Terms and conditions apply. A heads up before you listen this podcast is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. We are not financial advisors. You should always do your own research and consult your own financial advisor before spending or investing your money. Please note that all income, financial information and expenses in what we spend are self reported. What is your wedding going to look like?
- [01:26]
Dan
It's in Uptown Dallas. They're going to show up. It's like a very nice like French style hotel. Let's say it has a courtyard and we're going to get married in this courtyard. I mean it's a really beautiful sort of outdoor space and then there's like a little cocktail hour. The space flows really nicely from the ceremony space. Wow. I'm so like in deep with this wedding stuff. I can't believe I just said wow.
- [01:57]
Courtney Harrell
We're calling our guest today, dan. He's a 29 year old university postdoc living in the Midwest and he's getting married next April. So now at this point how much is wedding planning on your mind?
- [02:10]
Dan
Every day?
- [02:11]
Courtney Harrell
Every day?
- [02:12]
Dan
Every day. Maybe this means we're or I am wedding obsessed. I do not know. But I guess just people having opinions and interest and enthusiasm about the wedding is what really concerns just trying to manage them and then manage what we want and manage our jobs, manage our life. But it's just always something in the background that is coming up.
- [02:34]
Courtney Harrell
Dan met his fiance in grad school. She's actually still finishing her PhD in New England. So the two of them are living and wedding planning long distance. They're about 20% of the way through their planning. The date is chosen, the venue is booked, but there are still so many details to work out, and a lot of people they're hoping to make happy. Dan and his fiance come from different backgrounds, had different ideas about weddings themselves. And even though they want to merge everyone's wedding dreams together, they're finding that every detail is an expense that constantly threatens to increase the budget. Today we'll follow Dan through a week of planning as he tries to create the perfect wedding that meets everyone's expectations without letting the price spiral out of control. I'm Courtney Harrell, and this is what we spend. Do you currently share finances? Do you have your finances merged?
- [03:41]
Dan
No, we don't. But the expectation is that we will merger finances once we're married.
- [03:46]
Courtney Harrell
Are you starting to talk about how you're going to do that yet?
- [03:50]
Dan
I actually do not know how that really works. I assume that we'll have a joint bank account. I think we've mentioned that, but we've definitely, like, in grad school, have lived together at, like, my apartment, but haven't.
- [04:02]
Courtney Harrell
Had to pay your, like, bills for.
- [04:05]
Dan
No, no. For a share of things together. No, we have definitely not paid, like, one rent.
- [04:09]
Courtney Harrell
Yeah. So the wedding is your first joint financial venture, for sure. Wedding planning is the first time Dan and his fiance are making big financial decisions together. But they're not paying for the wedding alone. Both of their parents are giving money, and that has meant that they've had to talk about what each of their families can afford to contribute, which isn't the same. Dan grew up not really having to think about money. His dad was a physician at a top hospital and had a really good income. What was money like for your fiance growing up?
- [04:44]
Dan
Completely opposite. So her mom was a nurse. And I think money was always like, a, you know, constant conversation. I mean, like, I think they, you know, she jokes like, yeah, we were entrees and water people when we went out to eat, where I says, you know, I was used to, oh, you got to get the appetizer and the dessert and the drinks and everything. But definitely a different background. I mean, also, like, I grew up in the suburbs of Philadelphia. She grew up in a town in, like, a smallish town three hours west of Dallas. So definitely different experience. Like, south versus north. I'm Jewish, she's Hispanic. Like, yeah, we're very different.
- [05:25]
Courtney Harrell
How did you first start talking about who was going to pay for the wedding?
- [05:28]
Dan
I mean, I think there was some expectation that my parents would contribute just some Vague sense like, yeah, that will probably contribute.
- [05:38]
Courtney Harrell
And so then you went to your parents and said, can you help us pay for the wedding?
- [05:43]
Dan
Yes. And they said, yes, we will.
- [05:46]
Courtney Harrell
And.
- [05:47]
Dan
And that was sort of where it sat for a while. And, I mean, eventually they sat down and they. They gave us a number and.
- [05:55]
Courtney Harrell
Which was what?
- [05:56]
Dan
Their number. They.
- [05:57]
Courtney Harrell
They said, I think 60k, $60,000 from Dan's parents. And then his fiance talked to her mom, who said she could contribute $10,000. By the time each of their parents offered that money, Dan and his fiance had already set a loose budget of 60 to 70k for a wedding of maybe 60 to 80 people. But it wasn't firm. They'd come up with that number looking at average wedding costs online. But they hadn't started actually pricing things out themselves. But no matter where the budget landed, it was really important to Dan that he contribute to the wedding too. So he's been saving money every month. So far, he has about $7,000 set aside. Dan is finally making more money this year than he ever has before. We'll get into that more in a minute. But because both he and his fiance have been grad students for the last several years, they don't have tons of their own money to contribute. Still, they're saving as much as they can. Dan in particular, is a really diligent budgeter.
- [06:59]
Dan
Honestly, I'm probably too into it. I'm definitely, like, checking finances, like, at least once a day. I mean, sometimes even twice.
- [07:07]
Courtney Harrell
How long have you been doing that?
- [07:09]
Dan
You know what? I think we could say that it's correlated with the start of this wedding.
- [07:14]
Courtney Harrell
Oh, really? You weren't doing it before this?
- [07:16]
Dan
No, definitely not. Because I've never had something super big in life to save for. I mean, I was aware that I had, you know, this is how much pool, but I was never really doing anything super dramatic. And it was all just kind of working out at the end. Yeah, I was never really feeling the squeeze. But now when there's this sort of big lump sum due in nine months, like every month, it's like, okay, are you protecting the egg?
- [07:45]
Courtney Harrell
Basically, yeah, you're feeling the squeeze now.
- [07:49]
Dan
Exactly.
- [07:51]
Courtney Harrell
Let's get into Dan's numbers. As a postdoc, he makes $94,000 a year. That's before taxes and health insurance. His fiance makes about $45,000 in her grad program, which is what he was making until last fall. Now Dan pays $2,200 a month for his one bedroom apartment. His utilities are 200amonth, and Wi Fi is 60amonth.
- [08:15]
Dan
Phone bills, zero a month.
- [08:17]
Courtney Harrell
You're on your family plan.
- [08:18]
Dan
I have been threatened to be kicked off the plan in my adulthood. I guess I'll really have to leave once I'm officially married. They don't want me to be in the family anymore, I guess.
- [08:28]
Courtney Harrell
He has a car, but he walks to work, so his transportation costs are low. About 30 bucks a month on public transit and maybe another $30 for gas. He spends $80 a month on a combo of car and renters insurance, and about $300 a month on groceries.
- [08:46]
Dan
And then here's the one. I don't know if it's a. If I should be ashamed of this, but eating out 1,000 to 1,500amonth. Oof.
- [08:54]
Courtney Harrell
Why do you say you don't know if you should be ashamed of it?
- [08:56]
Dan
That sounds like a high number when we put it out like this. But at the same time, like, we love going out to eat. Yeah. This is definitely one of our main ways of, like, spending. I guess this is, like, the quality time, you know, that we spend together.
- [09:12]
Courtney Harrell
He spends $10 a month on Apple Music, and then he's saving $500 every month for the wedding. Why did you want to have a wedding?
- [09:23]
Dan
Why do we want to have a wedding? Well, I feel like great cultural. I don't know if pressure is the right word. Sort of just feels like the right thing to do is to have a wedding. I mean, everyone that I know has had, like, a very traditional Jewish wedding. I mean, basically, it's like the concept of, like, a simcha, like a. Like a celebration, a life event. I mean, grew up always hearing, you know, you don't just want to see each other at funerals, you want to see each other at weddings too.
- [09:59]
Courtney Harrell
Yeah.
- [10:00]
Dan
So I think there's some sense that, like, a wedding is, like. Right. I mean, things go back deep. I mean, I don't want to get too crazy here, but, like, you know, like in Fiddler on the Roof, I mean, at some point, I'm pretty sure, like, our family was in a village somewhere in Eastern Europe having weddings. That's just the way it would have been. I mean, have you seen Fiddler? So tradition is like the first song. Like, I mean. Yeah, I'm kind of captive to that a little bit. Like, it's tradition of you have a wedding.
- [10:30]
Courtney Harrell
Yeah.
- [10:30]
Dan
So I think it's important to pass on that tradition.
- [10:34]
Courtney Harrell
Didi, you have a vision of what you thought or wanted your wedding to look like?
- [10:39]
Dan
No, I'm not like, the well, okay. Sorry. So I'm not, like, you know, Mr. Pinterest with, like, the vision board of what it's gonna look like.
- [10:49]
Courtney Harrell
Fair enough.
- [10:50]
Dan
But I. I mean, I just had seen, like, what I thought a Jewish wedding was like, so I guess I just figured. And also, like, when you go to Hebrew school, they really bash that into you, like, this vision. So I had never even seen, like, another option. I don't feel like I was the one who was like, crap, we need to have mini weenies or else it's not going to be, like, an affair. And there needs to be a giant tower of cocktail shrimp. And there needs to be, like, the cheesy wedding songs. Like, we all have to be singing sweet Caroline by 11:30, and one grandparent has had too much a drink. I mean, but I think all of those tropes, I guess I wanted them there in some totality, but I didn't need any particular one. So I didn't have much of a mental model.
- [11:39]
Courtney Harrell
Of course, Dan is not wedding planning alone. There are a lot of. Should we call them, stakeholders in this affair. Dan would love to create a wedding that his fiance, his fiance's family, and his family will all be happy with. But everyone wants something different. And every decision, every personal touch costs money. Let's start with the size of the wedding.
- [12:03]
Dan
I think my fiance, she first came with the idea of, like, ooh, we should do it small, intimate, with families in Italy or something like that. And that didn't go over so well if we wanted to be floated it to our parents. I mean, I do not think they would be very happy with something that could be perceived as, like, an elopement.
- [12:21]
Courtney Harrell
You know, the parents had a very different idea. She's got a big family, and both sides agreed. They wanted a big party. So they ultimately landed pretty far from his fiance's dream wedding. They're not sure yet how big it will be, but they're thinking about 150 people.
- [12:38]
Dan
I mean, there's a funny thing, like, when you say our wedding should have, let's say, 60 people, that means each. Each side gets 30 people. It's really hard to squeeze your life. Well, my life, I do not feel like I can squeeze it into 30 people.
- [12:52]
Courtney Harrell
Yeah.
- [12:52]
Dan
And then once you sort of accept that, it starts, well, if you're going to have this person, you have to have that person. And then, I mean, my parents handed me a list of, like, 45 people that were like, must invites.
- [13:05]
Courtney Harrell
Then there's where to do it. The east coast for his side the south. For hers, they landed on Dallas, a neutral place where nobody lives, but you can fly in easily from anywhere, and it's a reasonable drive from her hometown. Plus, they fell in love with a Dallas hotel with a beautiful courtyard. They have to use the venue's caterer and spend at least $30,000 plus pay a $3,500 ceremony fee, bringing the venue to a base fee of $33,500. Then there's the vibe.
- [13:38]
Dan
I think weddings and, like, her family have been a lot more casual. They're more like maybe like communal events where a lot of different people sort of like, bring things and make things for the wedding. Maybe a little more low key, let's say.
- [13:54]
Courtney Harrell
But Dan says his fiance wants it to feel elegant and romantic. So lots of flowers that will run them about $9,000. And string players.
- [14:03]
Dan
So my fiance loves Bridgerton and how they did, like, all these, like, pop song string covers. So we're gonna. I think they're gonna do some of those, which will be fun.
- [14:12]
Courtney Harrell
The string players are just for the ceremony and cocktail hour. They cost $1,300, and they decided on a rabbi to officiate, who will charge $1,800. There's also all the reception details. They're going to have a DJ who will cost $2900 and will play some Latin music.
- [14:30]
Dan
We want both cultures to be represented, at least in the music, at minimum. And they'll, you know, there'll be, like, the entrance and the dancing, and then there's going to be, like, the traditional hora, like the Jewish dance in a circle. First we have to explain to, you know, all the Hispanic people what the horror is. And then, I mean, we were trying to figure out if there's, like, traditions on my fiance's side.
- [14:54]
Courtney Harrell
They're gonna do a welcome party instead of a rehearsal dinner the night before the wedding, that's gonna be at a Mexican restaurant with a mariachi band. And then there's the wedding food.
- [15:05]
Dan
My family, they're, like, very food obsessed. Every conversation, like, how many past apps do we have? How many tables? Are there gonna be a dessert? Everything. Because it's a reflection on them and their mind. On the east coast, cocktail hour is considered a sport. I mean, you're supposed to have as much food as you possibly can. You're supposed to eat yourself sick. And the way we have it right now, just like, no one is going to be starving.
- [15:31]
Courtney Harrell
They don't know exactly how much the food is going to run them, because that amount is determined by how many guests they ultimately have. And the venue won't lock in all the food costs until much closer to the wedding. But their initial ballpark was $230 a person for food, an open bar, and things like tables and tableware. They have other costs too. They're spending about $6,300 on a photographer and $4,500 on a wedding planner. But the wedding planning is far from over and there are still so many unknowns. How is it feeling to try to like merge all of the needs from everybody involved?
- [16:12]
Dan
This is why we are so stressed. No, this is, this is the ultimate problem. That it's like there's one event, but everybody sees looks at it and sees something different. Sometimes dramatically different, other times, like priorities different. It means a lot to everybody. And I mean, yeah, maybe her family's gonna have all these. Maybe we're gonna get a week out and we're gonna find out. You're not doing this. Like, you're not. It's not going to look like that. I mean, it's very possible. Like they just, they have some expectation that they're waiting to see that. We just don't know about it yet.
- [16:47]
Courtney Harrell
Yeah. And what about you?
- [16:50]
Dan
What about me? Oh, boy. What's the most important thing to me? Maybe I'm lost in the sauce a little bit. At the end of the day, I want it to feel like it was like a celebration. I'm not a people pleaser, but yeah, I. Wow, this is. I don't want to get too psychological with myself, but I do like hearing people say, yeah, this was great. I mean, when everybody goes home in the car after the event, I would love if they all said, wow, this was a nice affair. Yeah, not like, wow, this was a luxurious nice affair. We got served, you know, cocktail shrimp the size of my hand. Like, I mean, that'd be great, but I would love to if at least like me, my fiance, and then the two immediate families walk away with the same sort of warm, fuzzy feeling of satisfaction that like we did this day. Right.
- [17:44]
Courtney Harrell
After the break, we'll dive in to Dan's week. Want to pull off the season's freshest trends? You just need the right shoes. That's where designer shoe warehouse comes in. Loving wide leg jeans. Pair them with sleek low profile sneakers. Obsessed with the sheer trend. Try it with mesh flats. Feeling boho comfy sandals. Nail the whole free spirited thing. Find on trend shoes from the brands you love, like Birkenstock, Nike, Adidas and more at dsw. Hi, I'm PJ Vogt and I want to tell you about my podcast search engine. We try to make sense of the world one question at a time. No question too big, no question too small. We will even answer your questions if you send them in.
- [18:35]
Dan
Stuff like what happens when a cemetery.
- [18:38]
Courtney Harrell
Goes out of business? What should we do about teens using AI to do their homework?
- [18:43]
Dan
Who buys luggage at the airport luggage store?
- [18:46]
Courtney Harrell
Follow and listen to Search engine in.
- [18:48]
Dan
Partnership with Odysee wherever you get your podcasts.
- [18:52]
Courtney Harrell
Why are more women than ever choosing Natural Cycles? The hormone free, side effect free way to take control of your fertility. Natural Cycles is a birth control app that uses your temperature to find your fertile window. It is more than a basic cycle tracking app. Natural Cycles is the only FDA cleared and CE marked birth control app and has helped millions prevent and plan for pregnancy naturally. Save 15% when you sign up today with code RADIO15. Learn more@naturalcycles.com Dan's Week of Diaries started with a little travel. He and his fiance decided to take advantage of the summer break from school and spend a few days together on the Jersey Shore where his parents have a condo.
- [19:36]
Dan
Woke up, lounged around for a little bit, went to the grocery store, hit Trader Joe's so we made some lunch and that was awesome. Thought about the honeymoon a little bit actually trying to figure out a good destination there, maybe Greece, maybe Portugal. It's sort of unclear like what our exact budget's gonna be, but I know my fiance loves making spreadsheets so definitely some of that and looking at some beautiful places we could be. Then at some point had to call the the ride share over so that was $52. Got over to the airport, paid for a bag that was $35 and then were at the airport. We got some dinner that was around $20. Then you know, had to get a little bit of Garrett's popcorn, so that was $8.93 then, sort of. I I guess this reminds me sort of earlier in the day we had a pretty stressful moment because we hadn't really heard from our planner in a while and I know my mom was trying to say that we need to get the save the dates out and we're sort of waiting to hear back from our planner and hope everything fits together and there's definitely a lot up in the air right now and seems like there's a lot to do all at once. Even though it's far away, it's still kind of overwhelming to balance all these deadlines. You know, we have a lot of vendors Booked. We have sort of the florist and the venue and the dj, and right now we're trying to get save the dates and invitations out and finalize the guest list. In fact, today just got an estimate for the venue and oh, boy, food costs definitely went up from what we were expecting, and this is pretty terrifying.
- [21:38]
Courtney Harrell
On day one, Dan also spent $9 on train tickets for him and his fiance, bringing his total for the day to $140.68. Day two was another travel day. They'd spent the night in New England, where Dan's fiance lives, and had to drive the rest of the way to the shore.
- [21:58]
Dan
Definitely a bit of a hike, but super glad we're here now. I think the theme of the day is Starbucks and just travel costs. Started off with $18 at Starbucks. Got a fuel up before hitting the road, drove down.
- [22:13]
Courtney Harrell
They also got Subway for $23 more, Starbucks for $15 and groceries for $114 so that they'd eat out less during their trip.
- [22:23]
Dan
Definitely keeping an eye on finances even while having fun. Always trying, like looking for that end of the month, trying to not eat into the money that I'm putting outside for the wedding. I have a little lump of the budget that I try to preserve. And while, you know, I don't mind going into it sometimes, I'm gonna hope that we can, you know, still have fun without totally eating into those savings. So tomorrow, hopefully we'll be able to meet up with some friends and eat the groceries. And luckily going to the beach is free, so we'll be doing that. Maybe we'll discuss the honeymoon some more. Glad we made it here in one piece. Talk to you guys tomorrow.
- [23:09]
Courtney Harrell
Total for day two, $170.
- [23:15]
Dan
This is Audio Diary, day three. It was our first full day at the beach. It was very nice and relaxing and great just to lounge around. Went down and met my good high school friend who came up from where he was living, and he was there with his wife and his toddler and got to see his family and we chatted and that was great. We picked up food from like a poke place. So that was $50 for, for our food. And then we talked a lot about the bachelor bachelorette party and sort of where we might want it. A couple ideas were suggested, like an all inclusive in Mexico, but we're trying to be inclusive for a lot of different budgets because some of the guests would be grad students as well. Especially because my fiance and I, we want to do it a joint party. We thought that would be the most fun and work the best for us. So how do we even find a space that would be sort of be able to accommodate everybody at the right budget point? So a little stressful that we don't have that worked out. But I know we have a lot of time tomorrow. We actually, while walking home, we sort of made a promise that we weren't going to spend anything tomorrow or at least we would limit it to say, like some dessert. So we're going to attempt to cook our groceries for lunch and just try to enjoy nature and things that we don't have to spend on.
- [24:40]
Courtney Harrell
On day three, they also went to the movies, bringing their total for the day to $90.
- [24:50]
Dan
Audio diary day four. So we successfully accomplished no spend Monday and, well, with an asterisk because we did get banana whip, which is my favorite treat down the shore. So all said and done, today we just spent $16. It's nice looking at the budget app, seeing that the. The number that we're allowed to spend did not go down any more than it already has and shouldn't leave some more room for maybe going out to a nicer dinner. I know my fiance and I will be excited for that and we are meeting with the wedding planner tomorrow, so hopefully that'll be a good conversation. Hopefully get those save the dates ordered and I might have to be a little assertive about that. We feel we need to get things going. Haven't heard from our planner too, too much. She said she was busy with other weddings, so hopefully we can get everything on the right schedule there. One sort of point of, I don't know, stress, you might say, is sort of the financing of the wedding. My parents have, have said from the beginning that they would help finance the wedding. They initially sort of set a number of 60,000 and it's a little unclear to us if that number would go up if we needed it. I know that my fiance's mom has also offered to give us $10,000 for the wedding. So at this point it seems like we are responsible for the rest of it or that we would have to ask other family members for more. But it's also not entirely clear if that's even an option. So definitely a little stressful. It's hard because at first you're just making payments and deposits. So that's something that we are able to do with the money that we've already been given, which we're of course, so thankful and grateful for. The question then would become, as it gets closer, there's going to be Expenses we didn't consider. And all of the vendors are going to want to get paid all at once. Kind of feels like a ticking time bomb a little bit. So as we keep saving and we get a better picture, I know we want to talk with our planner about making some adjustments to the flowers maybe, and maybe going a little less on the food. So, yeah, I mean, the. The wedding, the celebration, I mean, of course, that part is so beautiful, and I'm so happy that we're doing it this way. I always dreamed of having a wedding like this, a big coming together. So I'm happy that we're all going to be able to celebrate together. Part of me wants to say that it all work out in the end. We'll get some gifts at the wedding, and, you know, we could always ask people for something more. At the same time, though, not being entirely sure of what the final number is going to be and how we're going to put that together and how it might affect our honeymoon or other expectations. Definitely a little stressful.
- [28:15]
Courtney Harrell
You said in your diaries that you had initially set this budget of $60,000 with your parents, and it was unclear if that number would go up if you needed it. Why didn't you ask?
- [28:28]
Dan
I just felt kind of awkward, like, asking for more because it felt like such, like, a gift that, like, really not everyone can do. I mean, my fiance, I think there was just, like, a sort of a tacit understanding that, like, we would not be asking for more because, like, what her mom offered, I think, is, like, what she can do. So I think just given that context, it just felt like, wow, like, we should just make work with what we have. Like, it would be not rude because they're my parents, understanding, but it would maybe ungrateful is the right word, or just like, so, like, you got this great gift. I mean, just be very thankful, very appreciative, and then just sort of make it work. I mean, to get a lump sum and then to turn around right away and say, wait, actually, can it be more? That feels like, you know, just. What do you mean, more? What's. What's wrong with what you have?
- [29:26]
Courtney Harrell
How did you feel going to ask them to help you pay for the wedding the first time?
- [29:31]
Dan
A little. I mean, not even kind of a lot nervous. I mean, even though they're my parents, I know there's no judgment there. I mean, I don't want to feel like I just. It feels a little weird to me, like, doing something that, like, we could not provide ourselves. We want to feel like, we built it together and we put this thing, but that's just completely infeasible given how much things actually cost. Yeah, but maybe again, this is like, completely normal, but nobody really talks about it. Like, I've been to some very lavish weddings, and they were most likely paid for by families. I mean, not the people getting married, but still. But then I know other people who, like, seemed like they provided, like, something of their own and then were kind of like. It just feels a little awkward.
- [30:21]
Courtney Harrell
Like, yeah, weddings are funny because I feel like there's often this pressure to be like, I want to make sure that I spend enough so that we don't look cheap. And then there's also this pressure that's like, I don't want to spend too much money so that it looks like we're extravagant or we're wasteful. And sometimes I think you can feel both of those things at the same time. Time, yes.
- [30:45]
Dan
Definitely the former. Because this has been a fear that has been communicated, I mean, explicitly, like, from my family. Like, we do not want people showing up there and it coming off as cheap to them. Like, the wedding is not the time to. To be thrifty or. Or cut corners.
- [31:02]
Courtney Harrell
Yeah.
- [31:03]
Dan
To be honest, I don't think we're doing anything objectively extravagant. But I don't know. I mean, like, it's. It's completely. Maybe some people in her family who don't really go to weddings and affairs like this, which I. I think is many. Certainly they'd ever been to a Jewish wedding. They've never been to a Jewish east coast wedding. So. East coast wedding put in the south with Hispanic influence. I mean, so. So they might be like, wow, this is like, I can't believe this is really extravagant. So, yeah, I don't. I don't know.
- [31:31]
Courtney Harrell
It's actually really hard to know what is normal to spend on a wedding. Wedding websites like the Knot and Zola and various wedding magazines publish averages. So you could poke around and find that people in Dallas spend on average between 30 to $40,000. Or some people say it's more like 45 to 55,000 for a wedding of Dan's size. But those numbers pretty rarely have any context. Like, what exactly does that include? What kind of venue are we talking about? Most averages don't even include wedding size. It's just hard to get a baseline. And that's before you're whisked into the wedding planning world where everyone is telling you you gotta have that extra little something for the guests to take home and you really might want to consider one more past app, and it would just make your mom so happy if you would, etc. Etc. In fact, most couples ultimately go over budget. According to Zola, in 2024, 74% of couples spent more than they'd planned. Even if you really, truly are not trying to be extravagant, it all adds up fast.
- [32:41]
Dan
Now I'm like, you know, I've peeled back behind the curtain. I'm seeing how much it costs. Like, oh my God, every time you eat a cocktail shrimp, like, I'm at a wedding. I mean, you need to like, kiss the ground beneath your feet. I mean. Oh, and it's all a function of guest count too, which is another interesting dynamic. Like, who's gonna show up? Are there gonna be 120 people? Then it's gonna cost that. Are there gonna be 170 people? It's gonna cost that. And these are big swings and you just don't know where you're gonna land. But wherever it does land, you got.
- [33:24]
Courtney Harrell
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- [34:28]
Dan
Audio Diary Day five Did meet with a wedding planner today and things went pretty well. We got like a final design for the save the date just short of pushing order. We're trying to just pin down the last bit of wording, but it's really coming together in terms of the money. When we sort of sit down and look at everything, it does seem like we're inviting too many people. We were inviting around 165 and our planner told us, you know, if we don't want sort of substantial cuts to flowers and rentals and other little details that are certainly important to us. We're going to need to get that down to 125. So that's going to be pretty difficult there. Seems like there's a lot of family and people who sort of need to be invited. Don't want to cut too many friends. So we set up a B list for some groups of friends that I know and we'll I guess go from there. I guess right now that brings US to around 150 invites. So not the 125, but perhaps people won't want to travel to the destination. We're doing it in Dallas, so perhaps we will come in that number. We made a follow up in two weeks to maybe pin down some more on the invitations. Yeah, it was a. It was a good day. We're thinking about going to explore another beach town tomorrow, I guess. We also wanted to go out to like a nicer dinner and we're trying to figure out. Well, I, I really want to do it, although it scares me a little bit. I mean, we've been talking about this place for two summers now and I'm excited. It'll be a nice treat. But also I'm sort of looking at my spending this month and it's getting a little tight. But I think all in all we'll be able to. To do the special dinner tomorrow and not have to worry about the. About going over and really eating into savings. Definitely find myself stressing about money at the end of the month. But at the same time, you know, we're on vacation, we're having fun. We don't really get this kind of time together during the year because we're apart. So it feels like it's good to have special memories. We did have sort of a candid conversation about some of our fears and, and at the end of the day we came to the conclusion that we think we can swing it. So I'm glad we were able to be honest about all that.
- [37:03]
Courtney Harrell
On day five, Dan spent $115 on coffee, dinner and drinks at a bar. Day six was their last solo day before Dan's family joined them for the last bit of their vacation. So they drove down to Cape May for a more adventurous day.
- [37:21]
Dan
It was a really nice day, although ungodly hot, definitely was sweating the whole day. Also spent a decent amount today, but.
- [37:31]
Courtney Harrell
I think they spent about 13 on lunch at Wawa. 65 on a birthday gift for his mom. 45 on snacks and drinks and 110 on a whale watching tour for both of them. Then they drove back to where they were staying and later that night went to that nice dinner.
- [37:48]
Dan
I looked at my finance app and it indicated that I would be able to, to do this and still have savings for the wedding. So that made us feel great. But that was a 200 dinner. So scary. But it was delicious and it had this like amazing blueberry pie that was like essentially just a hunk of New Jersey blueberries. Absolutely delicious. Felt very worth it. Then we went to a nice bar afterwards with a lot of, you know, cheap beer and cheap, cheap everything. So we, we had a great time just dancing and enjoying ourselves and, and that came out to, to 33. So, you know, on the one hand it is a lot of money and I could see how, how one could say it's the wedding coming up, you need to sort of save as much as possible and the best things in life are free and, and so on and so forth. But, but on the other hand, I think there's times in life when celebration is in order and it's the summer and we're not together too much, we're enjoying the beach. There's a lot of tradition and memories here for me. I've been coming my whole life so it feels really special to share with her. So I think while it would be, you know, you could say you should put the stores the wedding, but there is something to be said about putting it towards the present. So sort of a perennial battle of mine.
- [39:16]
Courtney Harrell
Total for day six, $466.30. On day seven, they hung out with Dan's family and finally talked together about the growing wedding costs.
- [39:31]
Dan
We had some candid conversations about the wedding budget. They told us that they would be willing to go up to around 80k for their total contribution. So this was a relief and we're so thankful. We really sat down with the spreadsheets today, figured out that they've already put up 30k and I think the current budget right now is 110k. But everything is really difficult because a lot of the cost is a function of guest count and we really just don't know who's coming to this. So they didn't want to have us cut the guest count. And I think it's a very reasonable reaction. You want to tell your kid, oh, have all your friends there and don't sort of skimp on people who will be there to celebrate. You only have one wedding. But the reality is we, we really want to use the money that we have saved. And we don't want to. We don't want to be left with. With nothing at the very end, which is a very scary thought, and having to keep asking people for money. We, at some point, we want to feel, you know, independent and that we've supported and. And provided for this event and that we've contributed in a meaningful way. So at some point, we do want to actually put the cap on the budget. So I think by making a couple decisions with who we send the save the dates to, we can get it to 150. And then who knows, if fewer people come, then, then maybe we can stick to that. To the 100 or 110 really boggles the mind to think that this is how much we're spending. And in general, it just feels like whenever you put the word wedding on an event, they just really got, I don't know, triple the price, maybe even more so. One day at a time, though. One day at a time.
- [41:31]
Courtney Harrell
By the end of the week, Dan's wedding budget was roughly $110,000, which is a lot higher than they originally hoped. Back before the hypothetical guest count grew and they started booking vendors, Things just cost more than they thought they would. They didn't realize, for example, that the per guest cost at the venue did not initially include things like taxes and tips. Plus, the food costs went up and could keep going up. And they're afraid tariffs might increase other costs, too. It's hard to know exactly what the tariff impact will be, but it could increase the cost of everything from food and alcohol to attire and decor. Now that Dan's talked to his parents again, they know that 80k of that budget will be come from dan's parents and 10k will still come from his fiance's mom.
- [42:19]
Dan
And then, yeah, then we're just due for the rest, basically.
- [42:25]
Courtney Harrell
Are you going to be able to cover it?
- [42:28]
Dan
I think so.
- [42:29]
Courtney Harrell
Depending on final guest count, Dan and his fiance could have $20,000 left for the two of them to cover. Dan already has 7,000 set aside, and he's hoping that by the time they get married, his monthly savings will have given him about another 4,500. That would leave them with another $8,500 to pay themselves. Where that comes from is still to be determined. Maybe a little will come from his fiance, maybe a little from cash wedding gifts, and if he has to ask his parents to borrow the rest with the expectation that he pays it back, he's pretty sure he can. How much will the amount that you spend on your wedding, impact your life after the wedding.
- [43:10]
Dan
Well, I mean, let's see here. I think that we're just gonna, like, fire all cylinders. Like, just ship whatever we have. And then, ooh, God. I just had a thought. Like, am I gonna be spending my, like, emergency savings on this wedding? That's a little terrifying. But hopefully there'll be a little bit left in the. Let's. Let's revise. Let's put a little bit left in the tank for emergency savings. But that. I'm imagining that we're going to be pretty much on empty after this wedding, and then we're just going to start the, like, the next phase, which is rebuilding and saving. She's not going to be a student at some point. I might be leaving academia at some point, or maybe I'll stay. I mean, I don't know. But what I mean to say is, like, we might get different salaries, and we're just going to start sort of filling up the water tank again.
- [44:04]
Courtney Harrell
Yeah, let's.
- [44:04]
Dan
Let's say it's like a water tank. We're just like. We're filling the tank. It empties really quickly. I think we're gonna put a lot into this wedding, and then we're gonna start filling it back up again. I don't think we're gonna be destitute. I mean, but we couldn't have two weddings, let's put it that way.
- [44:19]
Courtney Harrell
Yeah, you're gonna. You're gonna be. You're gonna be starting close to empty. That.
- [44:23]
Dan
Yeah, that's right. Yeah. This is like a common critique against weddings. I mean, you hear it all the time. You're gonna spend all of this on one day. I never understood that argument. Well, sorry, Okay, I do understand that argument, but I have a different read on it. I read it as. First of all, it's not one day. I mean, I have been. We have been doing this for months and months now. We've been talking about this since getting engaged, maybe even a little before. So over a year I've been talking about this thing, and we have another nine months to go, and we'll certainly be talking about it in the months since. So it's not really one day. It's. I think it's closer to like a year and a half. Two years of excitement, activity. I mean, a communal joint venture, as you said, like this first big financial venture. Maybe it's more ephemeral than if your first venture was a dog or a. Or a car or something like that. But this is like our first thing that we're kind of building together. So it's. Yeah, it's. Yeah, it'll. You'll physically be there for one day. But, like, it's given us something to do and talk about, like, and get people involved with and get people excited about, like, hope, you know, hoping for this thing and being to have, like, something to look forward to in the future.
- [45:42]
Courtney Harrell
Yeah.
- [45:43]
Dan
I'm normally a fairly cynical person, so I don't know. I have an optimistic take here. I'm sure someone listening can be like, nah, come on, bro. It's really just a day. But you know what? Maybe this is just a lie. I tell myself to not sweat it. How painful the finances are.
- [46:06]
Courtney Harrell
Dan's total for the week was $997.98. What we spend is an Odyssey original podcast. It's written and hosted by me, Courtney Harrell. Our producers are Margot Gray and Justine Dahm. Our editor is Maddie Sprunkheiser. Our executive producers are Maddie Sprung Keyser, Asha Saluja and Leah Rees Dennis. Theme song and original music by Matt McGinley. Additional music from APM music mixing by Pedro Alvira. Special thanks Kristen Torres, Jonathan Menhivar, Zach Clark, Maura Curran, Josefina Francis, Kurt, Courtney, Hilary, Chef Sean Cherry, Laura Berman and Hilary Van Ornam. If you want to be on what We Spend, we'd love to hear from you. Write us atwhatwe spend podcastmail.com and tell us about yourself. We'll be back next week.
- [47:22]
Dan
Your sausage McMuffin with egg didn't change your receipt did. The sausage McMuffin with egg extra value meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just $5 only at McDonald's for a limited time. Prices and participation may vary.
- [47:38]
Courtney Harrell
Every week on the Moth podcast, we hear from incredible people who have found their own voice.
- [47:42]
Dan
There's this little bit of wisdom people say all the time, you know, that you should live in the moment. Let me tell you something. There is nothing worse than being forced to live in the moment.
- [47:54]
Courtney Harrell
The Moth podcast features real people telling their stories live on stage to connect and learn from them. Follow and listen to the Moth on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.