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- [00:00]
Courtney Harrell
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- [02:18]
Podcast Host / Narrator
This podcast is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. We are not financial advisors. You should always do your own research and consult your own financial advisor before spending or investing your money. Please note that all income, financial information and expenses in what we spend are self reported.
- [02:40]
Courtney Harrell
I do think that there's like at least big portions of our culture that doesn't encourage trade work in the way that we encourage white collar work. Why do you think that is? Why don't we encourage people to go into the trades?
- [02:54]
Alden
I think there's two reasons. I think one reason is that there is not widespread knowledge that trades people make money, like a lot of money, and make good money and that it's a good job and you can get paid well. Like, you can make just as much as people who go to college. I'm making more going to trade school than I ever made going to college.
- [03:13]
Yeah.
- [03:14]
And then I think it's just like, it's hard and dirty. I'm like, girl, I have swamp ass all day. Like, I am sweaty, I am dirty, I am tired, I am fighting for my life. But I do feel that most days it's worth it.
- [03:35]
Courtney Harrell
This is alden. She's a 30 year old union carpenter in Massachusetts.
- [03:40]
Alden
I think a lot of people, when they think of carpentry, they think of a guy who builds houses or works.
- [03:46]
With wood all day.
- [03:47]
But the cool thing about carpentry is that it's basically just using any type of materials to build something.
- [03:55]
Courtney Harrell
Alden works with all kinds of materials. Wood, but also metal, concrete, vinyl, often on big commercial construction sites. She does everything from laying concrete foundations to framing and drywalling to paneling the outside of buildings. She loves the work and she loves that it's work that's really needed right now. There's a real shortage in skilled trade workers. For every five tradespeople who retire, only two are replacing them. Nationwide, more than a million trade jobs are unfilled, and Alden is the first to say that more people should run to fill them. Alden is in the fourth year of her apprenticeship, still technically in training. But for her, the work has already been life changing. It's given her more money and stability than she's ever had, but it does come at a cost. As a woman in construction, she sometimes works with men who make it clear they don't think she should be a part of the crew. The work can be isolating and exhausting even as it's secure and fulfilling today. We'll follow along as Alden balances the good and the bad of life as a carpenter. I'm Courtney Harrell and this is what we spend. Explain to me the apprenticeship system.
- [05:20]
Alden
Yeah.
- [05:22]
So every trade is a little bit different. Every apprenticeship looks a little bit different. For a union carpentry apprenticeship, it's four years, ideally four to five Years, and you just work a job in the field. And while you're working in the field, you get scheduled to go to school sessions four times a year. Each school session is one week. And every week that you go is a different focus.
- [05:48]
Courtney Harrell
In those school sessions, you learn everything you need to know on the job. You might start with an intro to framing in wood and metal. Then you build up to more advanced classes. Like you learn rigging or tying giant loads of material up with a crane. And you get all that education for free. A lot of it is covered by employers through contributions negotiated by the union.
- [06:11]
Alden
And so I think the great thing about an apprenticeship today is that a.
- [06:16]
Lot of people are encouraged to go.
- [06:17]
To college and pay thousands of dollars for a degree. Whereas an apprenticeship is not something you pay for, it's something that you get paid for. So you do an apprenticeship and you learn by working, and you get paid to do it.
- [06:30]
Courtney Harrell
Until you finish your apprenticeship and become a journeyman, you do make less money. But every year of your apprenticeship, you move up the pay scale. So in western Massachusetts, your first year, you get 45% of your journeyman rate. But Alden is a fourth year. So right now she makes 80% of the journeyman rate. That's about $34 an hour. You're going to end up taking home about $4,000 a month.
- [06:57]
Alden
Correct. Which, like, I can't even really understand that you just said that to me. Like, that is so crazy to me. I've never made this much money in my life ever.
- [07:07]
Courtney Harrell
How does that compare to money that you've made before?
- [07:10]
Alden
Oh, my God.
- [07:10]
It's.
- [07:11]
It is a life changing difference from where I was any. At any other time of my life. I just, I know I'm only 30 and I still have a long way to go, but up until now, I have just never made this kind of money. Even the first year starting out as an apprentice Carpenter was like 17, 50 an hour or something. And so many people were like, how are you going to live on $17 an hour? And I'm like, girl, I've never made more than $14 an hour in my entire life. 17 is crazy.
- [07:41]
PJ Vogt
Yeah.
- [07:41]
Alden
I was so excited.
- [07:44]
Courtney Harrell
Let's get into Alden's numbers. Right now, she makes about $48,000 a year. That's before taxes and union dues. But she also gets health insurance and a pension. On top of that, Alden has a girlfriend who she's been with for three years. They don't live together or formally share expenses, but they do share a Spotify and often split the cost of food. Thanks to her apprenticeship, Alden is making enough money to live without roommates for the first time. She pays $1,000 a month for a one bedroom apartment, plus $88 a month for a storage unit, about 200amonth in utilities, $12 a month for compost pickup, and $30 a month for WI fi.
- [08:26]
Alden
I don't really use the Internet much.
- [08:28]
Courtney Harrell
So few people say that I don't really use the Internet much.
- [08:30]
Alden
I know.
- [08:32]
Courtney Harrell
She pays her phone bill for the year in one lump sum. That's $360. And she does the same with her car insurance, which is $850 a year.
- [08:41]
Alden
My transportation, I spend about $100 a month on gas. I have a truck, so it's not the best at gas. But I also try to work close to home.
- [08:51]
Courtney Harrell
She spends about 200 to 300amonth on groceries, 10amonth for iCloud storage, 8amonth on Netflix, and about $9 a month on her share of Spotify.
- [09:01]
Alden
I do CrossFit. I know I'm crazy. I work all day in a construction job and then decide to torture myself by going to a CrossFit class. But I really do love it.
- [09:14]
Courtney Harrell
CrossFit is $180 a month, and she pays $25 for medication every 90 days. And then, in addition to the working dues taken out of her check, she pays the local union another $21 a month.
- [09:29]
Alden
And then. I don't have any debt. I am on one hand very very lucky. I feel very privileged to not have any debt. And also I would like to give myself credit that I have such extreme money anxiety that I have not let myself accrue any debt. Like, basically my entire life. I paid off my school student loans within like three years because I structured my life to do so. I just was like, not gonna have debt. I was so scared. I've been so scared of debt since I was as young as I can remember.
- [10:01]
Courtney Harrell
Why?
- [10:03]
Alden
So growing up, I watched my parents really struggle financially. In particular, my dad really struggles with money. He did make a good amount of money, I would say he was solidly lower middle class when I was growing up. Um, but he has pretty severe ADHD and really, really struggles with impulse control. So growing up, I watched him just like, spend every dollar he had the second he got it in his hands and accrue thousands. I don't even. I don't even, like, know what the numbers are, but I know he has thousands and thousands of dollars in debt from, like, Medical school, from credit cards, from buying houses. Like, it was so crazy because people were like, oh, your dad's a doctor, you're so rich. But this man had no money, like, struggled and would just cry. I remember when we were young, my sister and I saw him, caught him, I guess, like sitting in his bedroom and he was sobbing and cutting up his credit cards because he just had zero control over the money he spent.
- [11:08]
Courtney Harrell
Her mom was the opposite. She never had a consistent job. She was a phlebotomist for a while, a Walmart sample lady, a secret shopper. So she never really had money, but she also never spent a dollar more than she had.
- [11:22]
Alden
She was in like extreme couponer. Like, everything she did, she was like, how can I save a penny? How can I save a dollar? How can I try not to spend any money? Like, I'm just going to go, like, even if I have an extra $20, I'm not going to go. I'm going to go to the food bank and get food from like the food pantry because I can't spend any money.
- [11:41]
Courtney Harrell
Alden's parents divorced when she was 6 or 7. She lived with her mom, who was trying to take care of five kids, some from other partnerships, and her dad lived about an hour away. So Alden grew up bouncing between two extremes.
- [11:55]
Alden
We would go to his house and stay with him and go with him, and it was like, it felt to us like we were in paradise because he would spend all this money on us. He would want to buy us food, buy us clothes, take us out, and then he would experience deep, deep shame about that experience. And he would share it with us and be like. Because we went out and did all these things and we went on this vacation and we spent all this money on food and I spent all this money on clothes. I'm so broke now, I have no money left. And then we would go back to our mom's house, who she never made significant money, and there was like expired food in the pantry that she got from like the food bank, you know, and. Yeah, and I just felt like it was so confusing as a kid going back and forth between these two worlds of like living in scarcity and then going to my dad's house and living in this like guilt filled abundance. But then we were like, so broke. It was just like the perfect storm to create the most severe anxious attachment to money.
- [12:55]
Courtney Harrell
What did growing up that way make you think about how you wanted to make money?
- [13:02]
Alden
So when I was younger, I went to college because that's what everyone told me to do, I didn't really know of any other path and so I just chose to go to like the cheapest college and do the cheapest degree and I didn't really know what to do. I felt really lost.
- [13:18]
Courtney Harrell
She went to the University of Texas and got a degree in geography and sociology but that didn't give her any more direction.
- [13:26]
Alden
I was kind of just like a crusty punk kid and I was like, I don't need money. I can train, hop all over the world, I can hitchhike, I can wear, I just like wore rags all the time. And like I lived in like anarchist co ops throughout college and just was like, I hate money, I'm an anti capitalist, I don't want any money. I think because of my extreme anxious attachment with money, the way I reacted to that in my early 20s was like, I want nothing to do with money. I want to be like homeless on the street because I don't want to experience that deep beer. I want nothing.
- [13:59]
Courtney Harrell
She got jobs, of course. She worked in food service, she worked for 11 or $12 an hour farming in Texas. She worked for various non profits but she didn't know where she was going and she was never making more than around 20 or $30,000 a year.
- [14:16]
Alden
And I think somewhere in my mid-20s my prefrontal lobe developed and I started being able to see the future and be like, oh wow, I have a life and it's going to come up to me and I'm going to be in it. So I better rethink what I'm doing with that. So I feel like I finally matured once I turned like 25, 26. And yeah, I was like, you know what, I'm actually really, really tired of being poor and I don't need to make 200k a year, but I would love to make enough money to, I don't know, maybe like buy a small house and just feed myself good food, you know, like get off of food stamps. Just I really sat down with myself and I made a list actually of all of the things in my life that bring me joy. And next to those things I said okay, here's the, here's the 10 things that bring me the most joy in my life. And what is a career that is focused on that joy?
- [15:14]
Yeah.
- [15:16]
Courtney Harrell
What had you thought of trade work before then?
- [15:21]
Alden
That it was not for, for me definitely. I think when I thought of trades work I just thought of like the construction workers who cat called me and in college, you know, like yeah, but then I think there was another part of me that was like, okay, but I know that there are, like, cute women woodworkers, you know, like there's that is exists somewhere.
- [15:43]
Courtney Harrell
She didn't really know anything about the trades. She just knew that high on her list of things she loved was making things with her hands. So she reached out to all her friends and said, hey, guys, I'm really tired of being broke. Does anyone know any women who have joined a trade? And some friends sent her contact info for an operator, an electrician, a laborer, and a carpenter. She called all four of them and basically interviewed them, and the carpenter told her all about this apprenticeship. Alden started to see that the money she could make in the trades would be life changing.
- [16:18]
Alden
And that really blew my mind to be like, this is something I could do as a career and make really good money.
- [16:23]
Yeah.
- [16:23]
I just never knew that it was something I could do or that was available to me. I just thought you had to kind of grow up in a trades family and that's it. But it turns out that you can just go and do an apprenticeship and then learn and then be a carpenter.
- [16:35]
Yeah.
- [16:35]
Just learning that information was really life changing and just I knew it was. That was it for me, that that was what I was going to do.
- [16:41]
Courtney Harrell
Yeah.
- [16:41]
Alden
Like, the second somebody put like a circular saw and a screw gun in my hand and it was like, all right, build these stairs. I was like, all right, let's fucking go. I am so in. I'm so in. This is it.
- [16:56]
Courtney Harrell
After the break, we'll dive in to Alden's week.
- [17:08]
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- [17:43]
PJ Vogt
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- [17:59]
Courtney Harrell
What should we do?
- [18:00]
PJ Vogt
About teens using AI to do their homework. Who buys luggage at the airport luggage store? Follow and listen to search engine in partnership with Odysee wherever you get your podcasts.
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- [18:45]
Courtney Harrell
Day 1 It is.
- [18:47]
Alden
9:50Pm about 20 minutes past my bedtime, but time management has never been my strength. So I'm in kind of a weird spot spot with my bank account right now. I had three weeks where I didn't get a paycheck. I had to go to a week of school and you don't really get paid for that week. You can apply for unemployment and you get a, I think $120 stipend for food for that week of school. And while I was at school they asked me if I wanted to stay another week and just do my exit certification, which is the second to last class. It's like your final exam basically, where you build a structure and they grade it and you kind of qualify to graduate. So that was the second week that I didn't get a paycheck. And then I got a call from my foreman and he said that they were pretty much finishing up at the job I was at and asked me if I wanted to take a layoff for a little bit until the next job. And I said sure. So the week after I got laid off, I reached out to a bunch of people that I know, used my contacts, people I've worked for before that I liked, and asked around if anyone knew who was hiring. And I did something called solicit work. And so I went to a site where somebody that I had worked with before was working at and I introduced myself to all of the carpentry contractors and asked if anybody was hiring and one of the companies was hiring and I got sent out that following Monday to start at the job I'm at now. So it's kind of a different way of being. I think it feels a little bit more like the 1950s sometimes when it comes to how people got work and how you can just show up to a job site and get a job. There's a lot of things about construction I think that feels really Old fashioned in this weird way. But this is all just to say that I went three weeks without a paycheck, which is, you know, like three grand that is not in my bank account. I know that I have enough of a buffer in my savings to take care of myself and to buy everything that I need, but just always stress me out if I have to transfer any money from my savings.
- [21:23]
Courtney Harrell
On day one, Alden made all her meals at home, so her total for the day was $0.
- [21:31]
Alden
Audio diary Day 2 At work today I am doing some metal framing in commercial buildings. Most of the interior walls are made of steel instead of wood like houses are. So we frame all of the walls with steel studs. So that is what I'm doing today. The only thing I have purchased so far is a gallon of some sealant. I have been building a deck for a friend and I'm understanding more and more that money is not an issue to her and her husband at all. They just want all of the most expensive things. They don't care how much it costs. They just are kind of throwing money at me. And it's just really weird for me because I'm so used to when I'm doing projects for myself or buying things for myself, I'm always cutting corners. I'm looking for deals. I'm looking for the cheapest thing for.
- [22:35]
The best quality, but they just want.
- [22:38]
The nicest, most expensive stuff. So I'm building them a deck made out of ipe wood, which is like the most expensive, hardest wood from the Brazilian rainforest. It was $2,000 just for the lumber, and that doesn't include all of the money for all the screws and the other things. Altogether, it's been about $5,000 for me to do this deck for them, and they're just paying me as I go. The sealant I bought today was $162. And so I get all of that back. I am feeling a little bit stressed today because I have always felt extremely uncomfortable asking for money, even whenever someone owes it to me. So thus far, I haven't asked them for money. They've just occasionally written me a check. And I am having a hard time figuring out how to tell them, hey, it's time for you to write me another check. Because I'm, I think like $2,000 in from the last time they gave me money. So I am having to think about and figure out how I'm gonna ask for more money, which is just something that makes me feel incredibly uncomfortable that I'm really not Good at. Yeah. So that's about it for me. I will check in later today. It is 9:07pm and I am just about to get ready for bed. I am feeling okay. I actually just got into kind of a small. I'm not even sure what I would call it. It's not really like a tiff or an argument, but my girlfriend and I have really different relationships with money. I guess we kind of run into this problem again and again where I really, really struggle with, like, kind of counting pennies and being really kind of transactional about money. And it's really hard for me to just be like, oh, you're gonna buy me dinner today, I'll buy you dinner next time. Like, in my mind, there is always a running tally of how much I owe someone and how much someone owes me. And I know that that is not a good mindset. I don't want to feel that way. It's just been ingrained in me for so long, and I'm really trying to come away from that because I just think it really hinders connection in this big way that I don't want for myself. But it's hard to let go of that. And it shows up in my romantic relationship pretty often. It sounds so stupid, but I make her banana bread every week because she loves it. And I will sometimes take more of it because in my mind, I'm like, these are my ingredients. And so I'm just going to take more of it and give her, you know, a few slices. And she was like, it actually really hurts my feelings that you won't just give me half of the banana bread. It's like, such a stupid argument, but it comes back to this very equal, transactional way of viewing money that I just hate so much. And I don't want to be in that mindset, but I am, and it upsets people. It's, like, uncomfortable if you go out to dinner with someone and then you're like, I'm Gonna Venmo you $3.45 because we split half of those fries. You know, it's just. It's like, not. I feel the way that humans connect with each other, and so I try to be less stressed about it, but I struggle still.
- [26:36]
Courtney Harrell
On day two, Alden and her girlfriend spent time planning a couple upcoming vacations. So she paid for her share of an Airbnb and her ticket to an event, bringing her total for the day to $378.54, including that sealant she'll be reimbursed for.
- [26:55]
Alden
Audio diary day three it's 9.55pm I had a pretty average day. Today was payday for me and so my paycheck today was $992.40 after tax. Also, my friend who I'm building the deck for gave me a check today for $1,000. I did not spend any money today. Today my boss asked me to work overtime on Saturday and I had to say no because there is a barbecue on Saturday.
- [27:44]
Courtney Harrell
The barbecue is a once a year gathering of a bunch of women in Western Massachusetts working in all different trades.
- [27:51]
Alden
And it's always so fun. So I had to say no because of that. Overtime is something that's really great to get. It really makes a difference in your paycheck. So it's hard to say no. But I really try to practice work life balance when I can. People in my industry say a lot this phrase that I love, which is I don't live to work, I work to live and I really live by that. I do want to make great wages and I want to work hard and I want to come to work and do my good days work. But. But when it comes down to it, one of the things I love about this industry is that nobody is delusional about the fact that we are there to make money. I feel like in other jobs I've had, especially like nonprofit jobs and other, more like socially centered jobs, there's this culture where people are like, I do this because I love it. I do this because it's important to me and because it's meaningful work. And not a single single person in the trades says that. They're just like, I am here to make money and I want that money and I'm gonna get that money. And it's. I don't know if it's that. It's like a. Because it's a male dominated field and it's just more ingrained in that kind of culture to talk about money and to be okay and comfortable with getting money and asking for money. But people have no shame about just saying, yeah, I'm here for money, I'm here to get paid. So yeah, there's my evening rant about saying no to overtime. I will check back in tomorrow. Audio Diary Day four I just got off work and sitting in my car about to run some errands. Today was so horrible. Every once in a while as carpenters we have to do a good bit of insulating because we have to put insulation underneath all of our walls. So normally when that time comes, hopefully the entire Crew kind of pitches in.
- [30:11]
And everyone just spends an entire day.
- [30:12]
Insulating all the walls. Today was that day. And unfortunately it is 88 degrees and raining today, so I had a terrible time. Insulation is itchy and hot and just like a terrible substance to work with. So if you can imagine me wearing a full work outfit, like dungarees and a pair of boots with a full.
- [30:42]
Long sleeve shirt with a hood, a.
- [30:44]
Full dusk mask, my safety goggles and a hard hat drenched in sweat, just completely wet.
- [30:54]
Oh, it's horrible.
- [30:55]
It's so itchy as well. So like I just, for the entire day after I insulate, I'm just itching my arms. I'm trying to keep in a good mood, but man, it was horrible.
- [31:07]
There are definitely just some days in.
- [31:09]
This industry that are less glorious than others. And some days it's gonna be a.
- [31:15]
Little bit easier and you just kinda.
- [31:19]
Live in this industry with having a little bit of both of those kinds.
- [31:23]
Of days and something in the middle.
- [31:27]
Let's see what happened today. A guy at work today did say faggot, which I hated. But you know, you just deal with.
- [31:37]
Guys saying gross and weird shit all the time.
- [31:40]
I try to just keep my mouth.
- [31:41]
Shut because I don't really want to.
- [31:43]
Be labeled as a troublemaker or like somebody who is a HR problem, you.
- [31:50]
Know, I just kind of want to.
- [31:51]
Be there to work and get my job done and make a paycheck. And I definitely have learned to pick and choose my battles because I am often in the minority and. And I don't know, it just doesn't feel worth it to potentially lose my job or respect or be labeled negatively in an industry where I'm already so outcast. So I don't know. That's it for now. I am gonna do my grocery shopping right now. I usually on Thursdays prep for my.
- [32:26]
Courtney Harrell
Week, like buy all my alden spent about $126 on groceries and about $42 on gas. And then that night she went to a union meeting where she got some bad news. The union, the United Brotherhood of Carpenters, or ubc, is dissolving the Sisters of the Brotherhood, which is a national collection of women in the carpenters union.
- [32:48]
Alden
It seems that they, the ubc that is, is really afraid that the administration's gonna go after our union and try to sue us if we have any kind of like identity based initiatives. It's hard to know what to do because on one hand it is so important to us as women that we have that space to organize and support Each other and just feel not so lonely in this industry and to be able to build power together. But on the other hand, if the union gets sued by the administration for doing diversity initiatives, then that will affect our ability to work as women as well. Everybody in the union's ability to work. So it's just like, this impossible spot, and we're still kind of stunned by it and not sure how to move forward. So, yeah, that's a pretty disappointing piece of my day. All right, I'm out.
- [33:58]
Courtney Harrell
Alden likes to say that construction is the last frontier for women. Nationwide, only 4.3% of construction workers are women. More women are entering the field, but it's slow. The percentage of women in construction in 1983 was 1.8% today. Still, Alden is often the only woman carpenter on her crew. What is it like to be the only woman in the, like, crew? Sometimes.
- [34:28]
Alden
It feels isolating. It feels. It kind of depends on the crew, But I think it can feel really awkward. It can feel really isolating. It can be a really rough crowd. It can be a really, like, tough group of guys. I have been told to my face that I couldn't do certain jobs because I'm a woman. I have been told that women belong in the kitchen and not in the job, not as a joke. It's crazy. It's like the 1960s, you know, I've had guys take tools out of my hands and try to do work for me. And I had a guy just go on an entire rant about, like, I tried to do a certain job. I tried to climb up the gang forms on a concrete crew, and the gang form, the. Are the big, giant, like, really heavy forms to build giant concrete foundations. And I was, like, trying to climb.
- [35:21]
Up those to do work.
- [35:22]
And the foreman for that crew was like, take that harness off. You're not going up there. And I was like, why? And he's like, because you're a woman, and women don't belong here. Women do not, should not be doing this work. I feel constantly underestimated every single day. Yeah, anytime I, like, pick up a hundred pounds, you know, sheet, or, like, pick up a big plywood piece, or anytime I, like, carry something heavy or, like, do something that is physically challenging. The way that I can just feel every pair of eyeballs looking at me, watching me, being like, is she gonna be able to do it? I'm carrying the stereotypes of every woman in construction. And so I am a hard worker. I bust my ass, and I still am like, I have to be the woman that shows them that women can do this.
- [36:12]
Courtney Harrell
Yeah.
- [36:13]
Alden
It's like, men don't do that. Men don't have to show up to work and be like, I have to prove that all men are worthy of being here. You know, like, they just show up and they just do their job. And I have to show up and be like, okay. I have to do my best so they know that women are good, you know? It's so exhausting.
- [36:28]
Yeah.
- [36:30]
Courtney Harrell
Why is it worth it?
- [36:34]
Alden
The money. The money makes it worth it. And doing something that fulfills me physically and intellectually, you know?
- [36:44]
Yeah.
- [36:44]
Something that I feel good at. I feel really good at it. I feel like I've never done a job that I felt really good at. And I feel that I'm a good carpenter. I feel like I'm becoming a really good carpenter.
- [36:59]
Foreign.
- [37:06]
Kristen Bell
Hi, I'm Kristen Bell, and if you know my husband Dax, then you also know he loves shopping for a car. Selling a car, not so much.
- [37:13]
Alden
We're really doing this, huh?
- [37:15]
Kristen Bell
Thankfully, Carvana makes it easy. Answer a few questions, put in your van or license and done. We sold ours in minutes this morning and they'll come pick it up and pay us this afternoon.
- [37:26]
Alden
Bye bye, Truckee.
- [37:27]
Kristen Bell
Of course, we kept the favorite.
- [37:30]
Alden
Hello, other Truckee.
- [37:32]
Kristen Bell
Sell your car with Carvana today. Terms and conditions apply.
- [37:40]
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- [38:07]
Alden
Audio diary day five. I am so tired today. I got to work on the roof today, which was really great. I love being outside, but it was extremely hot. Oh. Today at work, I was working on the roof building rebuilding. That is the parapet wall. Apparently they did not like. They, as in the owners of the building, did not like the detail that was designed. So we had to rip it off and put a different material down. So we ripped off a bunch of plywood and put down two by sixes instead. I'm not sure why they just asked us to do it. That's pretty common. We don't always, as the lowly workers, get to know the details behind things. We just do our little job. I also need to get ready for the barbecue tomorrow, gather all of the stuff I need to make breakfast and gather up, like, my table. I'm also managing, like, a T shirt swap at the barbecue. It's for everybody, but primarily targeted for newer apprentices who may not have good work clothes. So everyone's just gonna bring their extra shirts and maybe a few pairs of work pants that they have to gift to newer apprentices. So, yeah, I'm really looking forward to seeing my friends and being around other tradeswomen. I think something that, like, this all kind of ties into why the sisters in the brotherhood feels important to me. Sometimes it feels like I have a hard time relating to other women and other queer people as well. Being blue collar and working in the trades, I feel like I have a really different life experience than a lot of other people, especially other women and other queer people in their 30s. And it can be really isolating, and it's really hard, especially because I feel both isolated in my work life because I'm surrounded by 98% men, and that's really lonely. And then I can feel really isolated in my personal life around the people who are supposed to be my peers, because we just experience really different things every day. Like, I think a lot of my friends, they work with other young people, other queer people, they work with other women. They are kind of in a different culture. And I go to work and I hang out with conservative men all day. So I think that, like, having these spaces where I get to be around other tradeswomen, it feels incredibly sacred to me because in some ways, it feels like the only group of people that I can truly relate to on, like, a deep level. And to be honest, if it weren't for other women in this field doing what they're doing, I don't think I would have made it. I don't think I would have gotten in, found my first job, like, did everything I did if it weren't for the mentorship of other women in the sisters group. And I'm at a place where, like, I'm far enough in that I have these connections with other women in the trades. And, like, I know I'm going to be okay, but I'm really worried for the next generation of women carpenters who maybe don't have that system, that network of women to rely on and to. I mean, we'll be there. We'll be there to support people no matter what. But it might just be more person to person and grassroots rather than, you know, having, like, a specific group set up for that. Yeah, I think that's it. I'm excited for the barbecue. I'm waking up tomorrow morning at 7, which is a nice sleeping in for me. We'll see if I can sleep that late, actually.
- [42:50]
Courtney Harrell
Total for day five. $0. You said something so interesting in your diaries that you feel that, like, you're isolated at work and then in your community where you're around a lot of women, you're around a lot of queer people, that you're like, isolated there too because no one's having the same experience as you.
- [43:10]
Alden
Yes.
- [43:11]
Courtney Harrell
Are there things that are particularly hard to translate about your experience at work to your community outside of work?
- [43:20]
Alden
Yes. I think the thing I struggle with the most is that it's really hard for me to like, go into my queer groups and they're like, oh my.
- [43:29]
God, the guys you work with, they're so horrible.
- [43:33]
They're like such bigots. They're so racist. They're so crazy. And I'm like, yeah, but like, I work with them every day and I kind of love some of them. And even if it's like the way that. So I like, don't have really good family relationships, but people talk about their families that way where they're like, my family is really bigoted or whatever and like, I'm working on it and I'm like, with them, you know, And I'm not just gonna be like, I don't want to talk to you anymore because you're so horrible. It's like, these are the people that I spend half of my time with and I feel committed to like, working through things with them in like some subtle way and also like not working through some things because I'm like, I'm just here to work, you know? But I think that, like, for me, I know this is so cliche, but. But there is such a deep political divide in our country and it's so severe, like more than I believe ever before. And it's so bizarre to be stuck right in the middle of that, to be like, right in the middle between my like, super far left, radical queer community and like, all of the right wing guys that I work with and to like, figure out where I can be and how I can show up in the middle of those two communities, you know? And like, I want to be there to have those conversations. And like, the place that we're going to have those conversations is talking about class solidarity.
- [44:46]
Courtney Harrell
You all have something really important in common.
- [44:48]
Alden
Yeah, there's that thing that's. The thing that's important is that you. I've learned that so much from doing this job, is that in Order to find common ground with people who are different from you, you have to have something that brings you together and you can find anything. But for me, it's this instant thing of like, we're both union workers, we're both union carpenters. Like, how can we use that to bring us together?
- [45:13]
Audio Diary day six. It is the barbecue today.
- [45:19]
I really woke up and really hit the gas pedal. I was supposed to wake up at 7, but instead I woke up at 5am the second the sun came up, my body was like, all right, time to wake up. This sun's up. Loaded up my truck. I actually ended up stopping by the dollar tree to grab a few last minute items for the barbecue. Some ice and a couple of like serving trays. Somebody needed me to grab tongs for the grill. And I grabbed a few birthday presents for my friends. Kids who are having a birthday tomorrow.
- [45:58]
They're I think 5 and 3.
- [46:04]
I ended up spending $21.25 on the birthday presents and the last minute barbecue stuff.
- [46:14]
And we're just getting started with the grill. A lot of people have shown up already. There are probably 25 people here right.
- [46:22]
Now and the barbecue officially started about 30 minutes ago.
- [46:27]
It's really, really great to see all the people that I love here. These are some of my closest friends.
- [46:33]
And I'm so happy about this day.
- [46:36]
Courtney Harrell
Of the year always.
- [46:38]
Alden
So I'm stoked.
- [46:42]
Courtney Harrell
Alden had a great time at the barbecue. 75 people came. And while she was there, she also got a $2,000 check from the friend she's building the deck for to pay off more of the balance. After the barbecue, Alden and her girlfriend went to a burlesque show where Alden paid for drinks. That plus parking at the barbecue brought her total for the day to $72.25.
- [47:10]
Alden
Audio diary day seven. It's my last day recording. It's my Sunday. I am pretty exhausted from the week and the weekend, but I'm feeling really happy and full. I just got to my friend's kids birthday party and I got them some presents that I'm bringing in and brought some homemade strawberry cookies that I made. I actually woke up this morning and I was supposed to go work on the deck and I just. The heat was so bad that I just got a massive migraine and my, my head was pounding. Felt like there was glass scratching in.
- [47:56]
The back of my corneas.
- [47:58]
And I laid down for a few hours in front of the air conditioner and just kind of lost my whole day.
- [48:04]
So I'm A little late to the birthday party.
- [48:05]
It started 20 minutes ago, but doing my best. So I'm headed into the birthday party. Talk to you later.
- [48:14]
Courtney Harrell
On day seven, Alden paid for a recurring order of household essentials and vitamins, bringing her total for the week to $738.69. It sounds like there are parts of the job, like I'm thinking about the fact that theoretically you could be without work between things. I think especially when you're doing side jobs, that you have to like, front the money for materials and things. That would be really challenging for somebody who has high money anxiety.
- [48:51]
Alden
Yeah.
- [48:51]
Courtney Harrell
And I wondered if, do you think doing this job has impacted that relationship with money?
- [48:58]
Alden
I think having money has impacted that relationship with money, to be honest, because I have a safety net now of my own, you know, like, the only way to heal an insecure attachment is to build security with it. And so I feel like by choosing a life where I was no longer afraid of money and afraid of making money and having money, I've been able to start. I mean, I still struggle so much and I always will, I think, but I think I've really been able to create that secure attachment with money by knowing that it's there and it's not going anywhere and you're going to be okay.
- [49:32]
Courtney Harrell
Yeah. You started from a place when you were younger where because of all the ways you grew up, you wanted nothing to do with money. And now as your relationship has with money has changed, as your relationship with work has changed, what do you want financially now?
- [49:53]
Alden
I feel that what I want financially now in my life is not excess and not extreme wealth because that is totally fundamentally opposed to all that I believe in. But I want security and enough to feel like I can really experience the joy of my life without the anxiety about money. And I feel like I'm getting there. I feel like I'm pretty close, actually.
- [50:27]
Courtney Harrell
That's big.
- [50:28]
Alden
Yeah. And I don't even like make that much money. Like, I like, I know people who make like $200,000 a year. And I'm like, I don't even know what I would do with that, you know, Like, I'm like, no, I. If I were like, I think probably whenever I become journeyed out, I'm expecting to make anywhere from like 60 to 100k, like depending on the job I'm doing, depending on, like if I go into management and that's like perfect. I can afford like a little duplex that I fix up and go on my nice little two week vacations. And have my cute little life with my cute little wife and just live.
- [51:09]
Courtney Harrell
This is the last episode of this season of what We Spend. We are so grateful to everyone who listened and shared the show and especially thankful for for everyone who opened up their wallets and their lives for us. If you want to talk about what you spend in a week and what that has meant for you, our inbox will still be open. You can write us at whatwe spend podcastmail.com what we spend is an Odyssey Original Podcast. It's written and hosted by me, Courtney Harrell. Our producers are Margot Gray and Justine Dominic. Our editor is Maddie Sprung Keyser. Our executive producers are Maddie Sprung Keyser, Asha Saluja and Leah Reese Dennis. Theme song and original music by Matt McGinley. Additional music from APM music mixing by Pedro Alvira. Special thanks to Kristin Torres, Jonathan Menhivar, Zach Clark, Maura Curran, Josefina Francis, Kurt Courtney, Hilary Scheff, Sean Cherry, Laura Berman and Hilary Van Ornam. Thank you so much for listening.
- [52:28]
Expedia Narrator
Mike and Alyssa are always trying to outdo each other. When Alyssa got a small water bottle, Mike showed up with a 4L jug. When Mike started gardening, Alyssa started beekeeping.
- [52:39]
Alden
Oh come on.
- [52:40]
Expedia Narrator
They called a truce for their holiday and used Expedia Trip Planner to collaborate on all the details of their trip. Once there, Mike still did more laps around the pool.
- [52:49]
Alden
Whatever.
- [52:51]
Expedia Narrator
You were made to outdo your holidays. We were made to help organize the competition. Expedia Made to Travel Every week on.
- [52:59]
Podcast Host / Narrator
The Moth podcast we hear from incredible people who have found their own voice.
- [53:04]
Alden
There's this little bit of wisdom people say all the time, you know, that you should live in the moment. Let me tell you something, there is nothing worse than being forced to live in the moment.
- [53:16]
Podcast Host / Narrator
The Moth podcast features real people telling their stories live on stage to connect and learn from them. Follow and listen to the Moth on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.