B (2:25)

It's kind of a bummer, but at some point I said it's time to graduate and if I get a job in Madison and can still spend time with my friends, that's a lot Better than paying a lot of money to spend time with my friends.

A (2:35)

Jacob graduated early in large part to save money. His parents did pay for his tuition and they supported him while he was in school. But that didn't change his awareness that every day of college was expensive. Now Jacob is spending his summer in Madison working temporary jobs and looking for a full time computer computer science position. He'd love to find one before the summer ends, but that is turning out to be harder than he expected. Jacob graduated from a really good computer science program with a good gpa, but it's a bad time to be a new grad looking for a job. For the first time in recent history, the unemployment rate for young recent college graduates is higher than the national average. Jacob and his cohort are finding that a college degree just doesn't guarantee you a job. Still, Jacob is trying. Today. We'll follow him through a week in his first summer after college as he tries to figure out what's next. I'm Courtney Harrell and this is what we spend. Why did you decide to go to college?

B (3:46)

I was very academically oriented in high school. Me and my friend group were, we were in Science Olympiad, I was in academic team, I did chess club, did a million AP classes, got really good grades and it wasn't that hard for me. And in general, I would say I liked learning. I thought it was fun.

A (4:03)

His parents also encouraged him to go. They're both high school teachers who believe a good college degree can set you up for a good life. And they'd always saved money for him to go to school. Even as public school teachers, they make more than $200,000 a year between the two of them, which is really good where they live in Illinois. And they've also been investing for a long time, including in a 529, an investment account specifically for higher education savings. So for Jacob, money wasn't going to keep him from going to school, but he did want to use his parents money as wisely as possible.

B (4:40)

What was fascinating is my mom came from an Asian immigrant household. She's born of two Filipino doctors who immigrated to Chicago to work in hospitals and whatnot. And they were very like on a budget in a lot of things in their lifestyle, but very much willing to invest a lot of money in education for my mother and I think in general her sisters. And so my mom was very much like, she obviously would have just chosen the best school that I got into, kind of finances aside, whatever, aside, just, you know that. I think that was kind of her idea of what she thought maybe would be good for me.

A (5:20)

Jacob quickly realized that even the cheaper options were not that cheap. So he ended up choosing the University of Wisconsin Madison, which was the right balance of good school, lower by comparison cost, and close to home in Illinois. His freshman year, his parents paid for his tuition, on campus lodging and on campus food. His second and third year, he started paying for his own groceries. And now that he's graduated, he's paying for his own groceries and rent. Where is your money coming from right now?

B (5:52)

My parents are definitely helping support me, but for this summer, if I were to not be supported, I do have enough of an income to pay my rent and like buy my own groceries because I'm just working mostly temporary stuff right now.

A (6:05)

While he looks for a more permanent position, Jacob is working two jobs. He's a web development intern for an Australian startup. But most of his income comes from something totally different than the work he's pursuing. He's a maintenance worker at the university. What kind of stuff do you have to do as a maintenance worker?

B (6:26)

This is kind of hard to answer because you end up doing a lot of odd jobs in general. It's like I do rounds every day where I go into all of the mechanical rooms that have like air handler stuff, fence and stuff. And then if there are big problems, I would report those to my boss and we would work on them together. And then the day to day is a lot more like going and fixing things in resident rooms. So lately that's been like working on the ACs in the rooms or like I fix some blinds today. Sometimes like mirrors get broken. So it would be my job to replace those kinds of things. Things.

A (6:57)

How had you thought about trade work before you started doing maintenance work?

B (7:01)

I didn't think about it very much before college.

A (7:04)

He talked about it a little with his dad as a hypothetical alternative, but he didn't seriously consider it. He actually really likes the maintenance work, but for now it's just a paycheck to get him by until he finds a computer science job. Let's get into Jacob's numbers. Between the maintenance job and the internship, he makes about $700 a but the hours at his internship vary, so he tries to just live off the $550 a week from his maintenance job. His parents also send him extra pocket money when he needs it, which he says he usually doesn't because his expenses are pretty low. He spends $535 a month for one bedroom in a house with four other guys about a 25 minute walk from campus.

B (7:52)

It's a five bed, one bathroom, which I thought would be terrible, but it's actually not so bad.

A (7:56)

That's a lot of people for one bathroom.

B (7:58)

It is, but it worked out better than I expected.

A (8:01)

He guesses. He spends about $100 a month on utilities and WI fi.

B (8:05)

It's not easy for me to track because what happens is one of my roommates gets the bill. He just pays for it. And then he eventually Venmo requests us and we just pay for it.

A (8:14)

His parents pay for his phone bill and he's on their health insurance and he doesn't really have transportation expenses.

B (8:20)

I just walk everywhere and I bike a lot of places too. And then sometimes I drive, which is borrowing other people's car. I've paid for gas before, but they don't usually ask for that. I just do that as a favor.

A (8:32)

He spends about 450amonth on food. That's a combination of groceries, eating out with friends and buying lunch at the dining hall when he goes to work on campus. And then if he's spending any other money, it's just on fun.

B (8:44)

My other hobbies are like I play instruments, but I mean those were one time purchases a long time ago. I play video games and every once in a while I'll buy a game or I'll upgrade a thing, but I check my expenses. I think I spent like 100 bucks on new games in the last like 8 to 10 months. So in general, my hobbies I don't associate with spending any money on except for eating out.

A (9:08)

For now. With his low expenses and his parents support, getting a full time job in his field is not an immediate financial necessity. But Jacob is at that moment, right at the beginning of adulthood where he can see the future expenses coming and he's afraid if he doesn't get a full time job soon, it'll be harder and harder to get one. How are you feeling about this moment of like transitioning from your parents supporting you to starting to support yourself more?

B (9:37)

It's definitely scary. It's one of the reasons why I definitely seeking out a full time job and why that matters is because it's like if a lot of insurance stuff just gets covered by an employer, then you know, I get to think about it a lot less. In general, thinking about getting a car and knowing that car insurance is expensive and like gas becomes a bill is also spooky. But you know, at least I'm not doing that right now. Yeah, I think it's, it's nice knowing that Right now, I can be happy living this lifestyle, but it is unfortunate knowing that some of that lifestyle is a lie where, you know, my parents are covering things that I don't even realize they're covering and things like that. Yeah, I think I'm more scared that I don't have a computer science job because the longer I don't get that, the more questions people have on like, oh, what have you been doing, etc.

A (10:27)

What made you want to study computer science?

B (10:29)

Back in high school, especially over Covid, it seemed like the tech field was growing. It really looked like they had enough jobs for, like, the entire world because it was massive. There was tons of hype around it. I remember seeing online there was this guy who somehow had like six remote jobs and was just raking it in, just going to meetings all day, doing very little work. And I was like, well, if that guy is not working very hard and has six jobs, surely I can get one. And in general, I didn't really know what I wanted to do, but I did some coding in high school. I kind of had neutral feelings about it, and I was like, I could study this more. And so that's what I did.

A (11:07)

It's a very practical choice, thinking about your future. Yes, Jacob is right for a minute. Computer science was a pretty safe choice. The tech industry was hiring like crazy after the pandemic, but now it's pulling back, and Jacob has a degree that he chose for the potential job.

B (11:27)

I know that in my generation, it was really common where people didn't really know or have strong feelings about even what they were interested in. Because I think that before having a dream like, I want to be an astronaut, they're like, it'll cost me like $300,000 to be an astronaut. And so those dreams get. That's not an example that happened. I think an example that I think of is sometimes when I've talked to adults in my life or friends of my parents about what their college experience is like. Recently, there's a guy in Madison who became closer with my family because he lives here. He would joke like, oh, I didn't know what I wanted to do. And I ended up going to college for nine years. And it's like, whoa. Like, that's so crazy. And it's like, sometimes it's part time. He was working a lot during that. But it's just a difference in mindset of, like, the idea that you could go to college for so long and just work and you'd be able to pay for your own Tuition and, and it wouldn't be world ending debt while you figured out what you wanted to do. Like, there's such a different ability to figure things out. Whereas it's like, you know, for me, and I'd say my generation in general, it's like, even if you realize that you don't want to do it, the idea of spending an extra year to do something else is, I mean, it can be catastrophic.

A (12:36)

Do you feel like you would have shaped your studies differently if it was cheaper?

B (12:41)

Yes. I think somewhere it might have been the end of sophomore year, I think I was like, if college was free, I would probably change my major. But it's not. And I'd already taken like seven or eight computer science classes. And it's not that I started hating computer science, it's that it's more that I was like, I'm not super excited about computer science. I still think it's just okay. And I kind of hoped that in high school when I chose it, that, you know, you can get into any hobby and end up being passionate about it as you discover the complexities. But, you know, that's not what happened. And you know, now that I've graduated, I still don't hate computer science. I'd say I like it, but I don't love it. And I think that's okay.

A (13:26)

You're saying that's like a very, like, matter of fact thing, but this sounds really frustrating. You just spend a lot of time and a lot of money paying for something that, that now you have graduated and you're like, this is fine.

B (13:40)

Yeah. Well, I think you can imagine that being a programmer just leads to an office job where I sit in a cubicle and it's like, no one hears that. Like, you imagine the guy from the Incredibles where he's like doing the insurance thing and he's a massive guy in a cubicle and he's just sad in his gray color scheme. And no one can hear the idea of sitting in a cubicle and be like, yeah, that's my thing. And so I think I always had pretty temperate expectations of even if I did love it and it did work out, like maybe there was never a world where something would fit right with me. And so I knew that. I think I had an understanding of there would need to be other ways to find fulfillment and happiness. And I think I got this vibe from almost everyone I've talked to in my generation. It's like, work is for money. But it would be a cool bonus if work was fun and I liked it too. But first it's money.

A (14:30)

After the break, we'll dive in to Jacob's week.

B (14:42)

Hey there cats and kittens. It's Brian from the commercial break. The mediocre comedy podcast where my best friend Chrissy and I attempt to make sense of the world. We talk about the absurd, the ridiculous and the stuff no one asked for, like Internet weirdos, pickup artists and why everyone is obsessed with crystals and colonics. It's all gotta stop. The show is free, it's frequent and it's probably not for everyone. You can go to tcbpodcast.com, subscribe@YouTube.com the commercial break or check out the show wherever you listen to podcasts. We'll see you on the next commercial break. And best to you. Hello, this is Audio Diary Day one. I guess I'll start at the beginning of the day. I get up at 6:30 for work. I don't eat breakfast because I haven't really wanted to do that since like middle school. It's not a habit of mine. I buy lunch. I'm a university employee so I get discounts at the dining halls so I can eat at the dining halls for it comes out to about $8. After the discount you can eat as much as you want. It's buffet style, as you can imagine, to feed a lot of people. I eat in my building, building I work in and it's not too expensive. $8 is for me, reasonable. And since I can eat a lot during that face style thing, I can eat a smaller dinner.

A (15:57)

On day one. Jacob also bought a coffee from a vending machine for $3.50. And then after work he went to volunteer at a substance abuse treatment center where he helps babysit for new moms.

B (16:10)

After that I went to buy groceries. It's the first time I bought groceries in a while. I end up spending about $62. I think it came out to these groceries should probably last me two to three weeks. Especially since I usually buy lunch at the dining halls and generally have a habit of eating out somewhat regularly with my friends. I don't cook much, not like properly. It's easier to do ready made stuff. So I do a lot of frozen meals or frozen things that become meals. I buy frozen vegetables, things like frozen chicken that you can microwave or air fry. It's convenient because if I buy fresh vegetables, which I tried to do last year, my schedule was always so inconsistent with college life. You know, someday I might, I think I have an afternoon open and I end up hanging out with friends or Going to a study session where I end up doing something else for dinner. So I like frozen stuff. Bought some like peanut butter and jelly and bread and some hot dogs and hot dog buns, things like that as well. Easy. Gives me a few options. Not too complicated.

A (17:11)

Jacob's total for day one was $73.30.

B (17:18)

Hello, this is audio diary. Day two. It's like 10:30pm I'm about to go to bed. I didn't buy much today, mostly because I bought groceries yesterday. Woke up at 6:30 like usual. I didn't eat breakfast because I usually down. Then I went to work for a while. So then yeah, I finished work. I came home, chatted with my roommates. Then I ate dinner with just some of my groceries. Yesterday it was a I air fried chicken sandwich, made some of the frozen vegetables and ate an apple. Then later I ate some ice cream from also the groceries. That was pretty yummy. I played games with my roommates, video games on the and that was my.

A (18:01)

Whole day total for day two. $7.80 on lunch in the dining hall. On day three, Jacob went to work as usual. Then he came home, hung out with his roommates and checked LinkedIn.

B (18:15)

So I'll say that I technically haven't applied to many jobs yet. I applied to maybe five to 10 jobs around the week I graduated. And when I took an online assessment because I'm a computer science major so online assessments are very common coding assessments, I wasn't happy with my performance so I wanted to take some time to study on a bunch of stuff and then you know, of course I have such big plans for the summer. But since I'm working, still trying to work 40 hours a week, it's always harder to find time to do that than I think. And it's hard to say no to my friends when they want to make plans because I graduated in three years and so you know, when my friends want to be social I feel like I want to take advantage of it while I'm here. Given that I did cut myself short of a year of college social life. And I would say that this summer I've still applied to some jobs. I've applied to like maybe 10 to 20 in the last month but that those are very low numbers for me and my generation. Like Tonight I opened LinkedIn and I saw that on an internship position posted 6 hours ago there had an already been 100 applicants and that's the kind of competition I have. And I did. I thought it was really interesting. I was thinking about it today. It's very common to understand that college right now is a very perhaps overpriced product. You know, it's very easy to see that. But it's not just that college is more expensive of a product than it was 10, 20, 30 years ago. It's also that it's a worse product. And there's a lot of ways of looking at this. One is the very obvious thing of, you know, 30, 40 years ago. You know, we hear stories, people in my generation about like, oh, if you just go up with a resume, like, oh, you graduated college, like, you know, go up with a resume, give them a firm handshake and they'll just hand you a job. And maybe that was true back then because, you know, having a college degree was much less common. But these days, college is significantly more of an expectation. And so when you are just joining the workforce, when where it's expected to have a college degree, you and everyone your age has a college degree of some sort. It's not nearly as valuable as it was in decades past, and it makes it so that you graduate. And you know, a previous generation would have said that that sets you up for life. And the current one, you paid a lot for a piece of paper that is less and less of a guarantee or a step up for a job.

A (20:40)

While you were still in school. Before you started this process of trying to find a job, what did you think the process of trying to find a job would be like?

B (20:49)

I think I thought I would have an easier time just sitting down and doing it. I didn't realize that I would constantly have this feeling of there's no point in applying because I just don't feel like they'll give me the job. It's not. I look at a lot of jobs that I'm applying for and I'm like, I don't think I'm enough as I am right now and so I need to study and work harder on other stuff.

A (21:10)

Well, yeah. So as you're starting to look for jobs now, what are you seeing that is expected of you? Like, what are you gathering people are looking for?

B (21:19)

I think what's unfortunate is they're just looking for great experienced programmers. I think what's interesting is I've looked at even internship positions where the language and the things being brought up as the expectations aren't even things I've heard of after I've graduated.

A (21:39)

Oh, wow.

B (21:39)

And especially for me right now, like, I very aware that because especially computer science degrees are so common because it was very popular degree in the past few years to get it would make a lot of sense for any job company. Just say like, oh, you need at least a 3.8 GPA or higher. But now I really have an understanding of like, you could set it at any level and you just want to be above as many thresholds as possible.

A (22:01)

This isn't just in Jacob's head. The number of students graduating with computer science degrees has more than doubled in the last decade. And at the same time, there are fewer positions just looking at, indeed, software development. Job postings have gone down by more than 50% since 2022. So there are more people looking for fewer jobs. And Jacob knows exactly the kind of student the companies who are hiring are looking for.

B (22:30)

They were coding all the time, that they were making their own projects, that they, that the classes were a breeze for them. And. And then beyond doing the classes, they would make all of their own stuff just all the time. And so it's just like bridging that gap of like, okay, well, I know where I am. I didn't do that. Obviously if I'm passing my classes, it's my prerogative to spend time having fun. Cause part of the message around college is like, oh, you get to have fun, go to some parties, balance your work and studies, but make sure you have fun. These are the best years of your life. And now looking back and it's like, okay, I mean, I have a 3.6 GPA and apparently, or 3.67. So I can round up to 3.7. And it's like, I just should have been doing work that was completely irrelevant to my class and just should have been making my own things. And it's frustrating because like, I have a degree and I worked during the semester and I have an internship and it's like I got decent grades and it's like, you know what, what else should really be expected of me?

A (23:28)

Does it feel like they are looking at your degree?

B (23:31)

No, no, not even a little bit. It's one of the reasons that it's like, it's another hard thing for me to sit down and just apply to jobs because it's like part of that is procrastination for knowing that when I apply for jobs, I really expect to have a really low acceptance rate. I don't know if I'm prepared to just give rejection emails every day for the next two months if I start applying.

A (23:51)

Every.

B (24:02)

Shopping is hard.

A (24:04)

I can never find anything in my size.

B (24:06)

I don't even know my size.

A (24:08)

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B (24:27)

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A (24:29)

Get started today@stitchfix.com on day four, Jacob started his day with a five hour shift at work. After that, he went shopping for a Father's Day gift for his dad, which cost $40, and then got coffee with his roommate for $6. He also noticed the car he was borrowing from his friend was low on gas, so he filled it up for 25 bucks and then he went home to do more work.

B (24:55)

Something that's interesting to think about is that sometimes I come home and I'm just tired from working at maintenance. And so I think it's hard to rally myself to work more for my internship. Like today where I came home from five hours of work at maintenance to come home and then work more for my internship. Because I come home and my body's like, oh, it's done time. But no, I need to get up and use my brain. And sometimes even my brain's tired. Like it's stressful to critically think about the machinery that I'm working with and figure it out and make sure I'm doing something safely and properly and correctly. So then coming home and sitting at a computer and just reading and thinking isn't so easy either. But this is a perfect interim role while I look for work in my career field. As I talked about yesterday, I enjoy the work. One of the reasons I enjoy the work is because I really like I love talking to full timers. It's always nice to talk to adults as a young person and learn more about the world from those who have more experience in it. But something I really like is that the vibe, if I could say informally, of my superiors, is down to earth and humble. A good way of putting this is like when imagine I'm a stupid student and I make a mistake, they might give you some crap for it, jokingly like, what'd you do that for? You know, pat on the shoulder. But in general, I've never once felt shame or anything for making a mistake because people are so problem and solution oriented and when a problem arises, even if it's your fault, it doesn't matter whose fault it is. It's about finding the solution together and working that out. And the only thing that earns disrespect in this line of work is a lack of effort is what I've noticed is being on your phone is not paying attention. One of the reasons this is coming up in my mind is that today this boss of mine, technically he's not my direct supervisor anymore, but he's adjacent in the same hierarchy level as my current actual supervisor. I was talking to him, I was catching up with him for the first time in a while and he told me to, if it seems like it would be valuable to me that I should apply for the full time role of what I'm doing right now. Which, you know, kind of blew my mind because I'm, you know, I am working hard and I am doing my best to adapt. But my degree is in computer science. I'm not a trades worker. This stuff is new to me and I have to ask for a lot of help every day to get things done. But when I asked him if he really thought that I would be capable enough and I was kind of flattered when he said, honestly, I don't know, but you're a hard worker and so you should just try anyway, it meant a lot to me that my effort and work ethic and general attitude towards the job was really all that mattered to him. I like that. Now a downside of this job is that physical labor is really important. As a student I was regularly lifting 30, 40 pound stuff. I'm on ladders a lot. There's a lot of just being comfortable with some physically risky things that is hard for some people. I think about what it would be like to grow old in this kind of job and it gives me a lot of respect for the full timers who. There were three full timers who retired this semester. And to think about what it meant for them to be doing things like moving washers and dryers on their own at the age of 60 something because that stuff is heavy. And to think about how my dad has a bad back and bad legs and how he just literally would not be able to do some of the work that I see these guys do. I respected a lot. And it, even though I respect it and even though I like this work and I in the end could see myself doing this work and working with people like this for a long time. There's a real risk to a job where if I break my arm, I can't work anymore. So that's something really nice about a white collar job that I am coming to resonate with as I work collar and a white collar job at the same time.

A (29:10)

Was that the first time that someone had seriously suggested to you that you could do something totally different than your plan.

B (29:18)

Yeah, yeah.

A (29:20)

Can you imagine pivoting and doing something that doesn't use your degree?

B (29:24)

Yeah, I mean it's, you know, something that's certainly on my mind a lot as I'm wondering how what the longevity is of my enjoyment in this space as I imagine how much I'll enjoy in the future as I wonder how effective my degree is actually for me. And then it's like if I do this trades work I don't know what it means to have this full time job and then if I quit and look for more trades work like I don't have any or I didn't go to a trade school, I don't know where what that would mean later on. Yeah, but I think that, I mean all roads for me are like well I. I just really, really want to get a job in computer science and programming. First to know. Hello, this is audio diary day five. Except that I'm recording it at 10am the next day because yesterday was my 21st birthday and as you can imagine being a recently graduated college student and turning 21, I was up a little late last night and I didn't get to recording this last night. My dad had planned to go to happy hour at Eno Vino's which is a very fancy place in Madison where he hosted a bunch of my friends and then a bunch of his friends from he has a couple co workers who retired up to Madison. So we did happy hour at Ninovino's where everyone could got a couple drinks at like 5pm to 7 and then we drove responsibly. We had DDS designated drivers to a barbecue place and that was amazing. Some people got this like strawberry and chocolate martini that tasted amazing. So yeah, it was a lot of fun. My parents paid for everything. They're very kind. So then after we got got home me and I had five friends with me played a game called Boom cup which is a drinking game. It's a fun one. I think it's one of the most fun games like party games in college and if you have a lot of people it's actually pretty easy to not get very inebriated and still be safe unless you lose really badly and are bad at the game. But that's kind of how drinking games are I guess. Then after that we wanted to go to a bar because it's, you know, my 21st and I never bothered going to bars even though some of them in this college town probably don't id. I never felt like Risking it. I think it is kind of funny that I turned 21 after I graduated. My friend always joked like, oh, you finished college without experiencing any of it. Which is obviously also a joke because as college students do, they drink before they're 21. And I on the record was, would never do that, obviously. Of course not. Then we got home at like 2 in the morning last night and that's why I just went straight to bed. So it was a really fun birthday. I got to spend with a lot of friends and my parents made a really big thing. I appreciate everyone for coming along.

A (32:32)

Jacob was mostly treated to his birthday food and drinks all night. So his total for day five was just $20 at the bar.

B (32:40)

Day six, I played some video games, hung out with friends for lunch. I just ate leftovers from last night and some other stuff I had in the fridge. So I didn't spend any money. Played more games then for dinner. My parents were still in town, so they took out me and my friends, some of their friends again. Then I came home and I'm recording, recording this now. So yeah, it was another good day of a relaxing weekend.

A (33:08)

On day seven, Jacob went to his hometown to celebrate Father's Day. He just stayed there for the night. But he knows that if he doesn't find a full time job this summer, he'll be back soon. When the next school year starts in the fall, he'll need to leave Madison and live at home while he continues the job hunt.

B (33:26)

So even though coming home to my hometown rather than Madison this fall, if I don't get a job somewhere else would mean that I'll probably be depressed and lonely because my family will have work and school and I won't have friends in my hometown because all my high school friends will be back in college again. At the very least, I'll have one primary focus and that would be studying and looking for jobs. This summer I'm working a lot while I'm looking for, for jobs and that's a bit of a distraction even though I'm enjoying it. So that'll probably be. That'll probably end up being what happens. You know, graduating is another transition in life is hard. I'm not even confident in my ability to get a job. That, that scares me. Even though I think that I've become a capable computer science student and a capable intern, a capable worker with work ethic, what I am confident in is the fact that I'm a good worker, the fact that I really care about people's feelings. And I think I'VE demonstrated that throughout college. I really do think I'll be able to carve out a happy life for myself. It'll just be a pain in the ass along the way. And that's how life is.

A (34:40)

What is your stress level right now about finding something?

B (34:43)

It's weird. Some days I'm stressed, and I think that these days I'm hiding a lot behind the. I have a job and I feel happy right now. So I'm gonna pretend that there's no problems in the future. And I think that when it'll really kick in is after the summer. I'll have missed yet another deadline of where I had hoped to have a job by now. And that'll be really when I get stressed. And I'll probably just end up working harder. Cause that's what stress does. If you handle it well.

A (35:13)

Yeah. How much money are you hoping to be able to make?

B (35:17)

I don't really care.

A (35:20)

You don't really care?

B (35:21)

I mean. I mean, like I said, I'm happy right now. I guess it's hard. This is something where once I make more money, I don't know how my lifestyle will change. And believe it or not, I haven't researched into how much making or having a family costs.

A (35:38)

Yeah.

B (35:38)

Which is where that would matter. So in the current future, I would be so happy with something that pays like 50 or 60 or $70,000 a year. All of that sounds amazing. It's all a raise from right now is probably where my head's at.

A (35:49)

Yeah.

B (35:50)

But, you know, obviously, in the current cost of living environment we are in, in 2025, you know, I should obviously work harder to earn more money, no matter what, because children are expensive. And I know I want to have kids. And I want. Would love to invest in my children's future and their education the way my parents have for me.

A (36:08)

Which I think is interesting because it does sound like you have a pretty balanced view of higher education. And it doesn't seem like it's like a obvious. This is amazing to you. Why is that still a priority when you think about your future?

B (36:27)

My parents did that for me. And so as a simple way of thinking about it, to me it's just paying it forward because it's. You know, there are ways to save money that don't mean it has to go to education. I mean, if my child doesn't want to do that, then I could go spend it on a yacht. Not a yacht. That's too much.

A (36:45)

I meant you can buy the yacht if you want.

B (36:47)

Yeah, sure. Like it's money. Money can become anything. And the point is that I think a difficult part right now is that we think that education sets you up for your future. But even if education is free, like, no one thinks it's easy to move to a new place and get a job. And then, like your first couple months working, you might be on a tight budget because you're just paying your first few months of rent. You're building up that cushion. I just want to be able to offer things like that to my children, as my parents have done for me, because I think it's worth doing.

A (37:21)

Jacob's total for the week was $187.70. What we spend is An Odyssey original podcast. It's written and hosted by me, Courtney Harrell. Our producers are Margot Gray, Kristin Torres, and Justine Dahm. Our editor is Jonathan Menhivar. Our executive producers are Maddie Sprung Keyser, Asha Salisbury, and Leah Rhys Dennis. Theme song and original Music by Matt McGinley. Additional music from 8pm Music mixing by Pedro Alvira. Special thanks to Zach Clark, Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Kurt Courtney, Hilary Schuck, Sean Cherry, Laura Berman, and Hilary Van Ornam. If you want to be on what We Spend, we'd love to hear from you. Write us at WhatWe Spend podcast podcastmail.com we'll be back next week.

B (38:29)

Hello, it's Lena Dunham.

A (38:31)

I host a podcast called the C Word with my dearest friend and historian of bad behavior, Alyssa Bennett. What is up? It's a chat show about women whose society is called Crazy. We're going to be rediscovering the stories of women's society dismissed by calling them mad, sad, or just plain bad. Listen to and follow the C Word.

B (38:53)

With Lena Dunham and Alyssa Bennett. Available now. Wherever you get your podcasts.