Single Dad at Sea (Part 1)

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Single Dad at Sea (Part 1)"

Title: Single Dad at Sea (Part 1)
Podcast: What We Spend
Host: Courtney Harrell
Release Date: June 18, 2025

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Introduction to Michael

In the premiere episode of "Single Dad at Sea (Part 1)", host Courtney Harrell introduces us to Michael, a 56-year-old single father of 10-year-old twins. Michael is a Spanish teacher residing in Massachusetts, having relocated from New York during the COVID-19 pandemic due to financial constraints. Living in a small village where he's one of three openly gay individuals, Michael emphasizes the sacrifices he's made to provide a stable and loving environment for his children.

Notable Quote:
"I'm a single dad yet, so don't know how we're live."
— Michael [03:08]

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Michael's Journey into Fatherhood

Michael's desire to become a father stemmed from a tumultuous relationship with his own absentee and emotionally abusive father. Determined to break the cycle, Michael pursued surrogacy in his early 40s, investing approximately $125,000—a significant financial commitment, largely funded by his savings and family support. His commitment to single parenthood left him with a minimal financial safety net, leading to ongoing financial challenges.

Notable Quote:
"Because smarter spending starts with more flexible options."
— Michael [01:55]

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Life as a Single Dad: Financial Struggles and Coping Mechanisms

Navigating life as a single parent on a teacher's salary, Michael discusses the relentless cycle of debt he's entrenched in. Despite his full-time job bringing in approximately $39,000 annually and an inconsistent tutoring side income of around $20,000, his expenses far exceed his earnings. Major costs include mortgage payments, car loans, utilities, and essential expenses for his twins' upbringing. Michael candidly shares his coping mechanisms, which include relying heavily on credit cards and a home equity line of credit, leading to substantial debt accumulation.

Notable Quotes:
"Denial. It's a theme."
— Michael [07:00]

"Everything goes on one credit card because it gets me miles."
— Michael [12:15]

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The Decision to Take a Family Cruise

Seeking a break from financial pressures, Michael and a teacher friend decided to take advantage of a cruise deal: buy one ticket and get the second child's ticket free. Additionally, by utilizing credit card points for flights, they anticipated a cost-effective family vacation. However, this decision would soon unravel unforeseen challenges.

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Day 1: Unexpected College Crowd and Financial Surprises

Upon boarding the cruise, Michael expected a serene trip populated by elderly passengers. To his surprise, the cruise was designated as the largest spring break party ship, teeming with over a thousand college students. This revelation marked the beginning of unexpected financial strains, including daily gratuity fees and additional costs that had not been initially considered.

Notable Quotes:
"I'm a single dad yet, so don't know how we're live."
— Michael [03:08]

"My credit card just feels like I can't get it under control."
— Michael [12:29]

"It's insanity. The hours are insane."
— Michael [09:47]

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Day 1: Emotional and Financial Toll

The first day took an emotional turn when Michael's daughter fell ill, leading to unforeseen expenses like emergency supplies from the ship's minibar. The cumulative effect of hidden fees, such as an $18 daily gratuity charge per person, pushed Michael's financial anxiety to new heights.

Notable Quote:
"I've been on them about that. And then like, my son gets really scared at night, so sometimes I'll say, do you want me to leave the light on, honey? And he'll be like, no, I don't want you to spend the money."
— Michael [35:56]

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Day 2: Shark Tour Mishaps and Additional Costs

Michael's plans for a shark tour went awry when miscommunications led to additional unexpected fees. Initially planning to skip purchasing additional tickets, Michael found he had to pay for his participation, further straining his already tight budget. Despite these setbacks, the experience provided memorable moments for his children but left Michael reflecting on the true cost of such excursions.

Notable Quote:
"That's awesome. That was $50 a minute for you to pretend that you were swimming with sharks."
— Michael [30:01]

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Emotional Impact on Michael and His Children

Throughout the cruise, Michael grapples with the dual challenge of managing his finances and shielding his children from his financial stress. He acknowledges the delicate balance between providing enjoyable experiences for his kids and the underlying guilt and anxiety about the costs involved.

Notable Quotes:
"My children are absorbing my stress about finances. It's just impossible."
— Michael [35:56]

"I wish it wasn't tied into them knowing that I spent a lot of money."
— Michael [37:31]

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Reflection and Looking Ahead

As the first part of his week onboard concludes, Michael reflects on the complexities of balancing financial responsibility with the desire to offer his children memorable experiences. Despite the challenges faced during the cruise, he recognizes the importance of these moments but remains acutely aware of the financial implications. The episode sets the stage for the second part, where Michael will navigate returning to daily life post-cruise.

Notable Quote:
"I wish it wasn't tied into them knowing that I spent a lot of money."
— Michael [37:39]

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Conclusion

"Single Dad at Sea (Part 1)" offers a poignant glimpse into the life of Michael, illustrating the intricate dance between financial management and personal fulfillment as a single parent. Through Michael's candid storytelling, listeners gain insight into the real-world challenges faced by those striving to provide for their families amidst financial constraints.

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Notable Timestamps and Quotes:

• [02:32] Michael discusses his initial thoughts on wanting twins for financial reasons.
• [05:35] Michael reveals his motivations for desiring fatherhood: "I had a horrible father. Really? It's hard. Not a good person."
• [07:00] Courtney asks about his financial planning, to which Michael responds with denial as a coping mechanism.
• [12:15] Michael explains his reliance on a single credit card for all expenses: "Everything goes on one credit card because it gets me miles."
• [24:35] Michael recounts his daughter’s sudden illness on the cruise and the ensuing financial burden.

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This summary captures the essence of Michael's financial and emotional journey during his family cruise, highlighting the challenges of single parenthood intertwined with financial stress.

Transcript

[Courtney Harrell]

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[Michael]

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[Michael]

So I started the process of surrogacy, which is very, very expensive. At that time I had saved a lot of money because I was, you know, for a single person, I was doing fine. So I did the surrogacy process where they encourage you to transfer two embryos so that you can have more better chances of one taking. I actually really, really, really wanted twins. And it's so funny because part of that process of wanting twins was financial because I knew I wasn't going to be able to do surrogacy twice.

[Courtney Harrell]

Oh right, yes.

[Michael]

So there's a clause in there that if the surrogate becomes pregnant with twins you pay 5,000 more, which is nothing in comparison to going through the whole process a second time. So I was like, I want twins, I want twins, I want twins. Well then the twins show up and you're like, what the fuck is happening? How am I going to do this?

[Courtney Harrell]

This is Michael. He's 56 years old and he is the dad of 10 year old twins.

[Michael]

I'm a single dad yet, so don't know how we're live.

[Courtney Harrell]

Michael is a Spanish teacher living in Massachusetts. For years he lived in New York, but he left the city during COVID and couldn't afford to go back.

[Michael]

And so I'm currently now living in the town where I was born and ra and fled when I realized I was gay. I'm like one of three gays in the village. That's it. Literally. I'm not exaggerating. Everybody's like, there must be more. And I'm like, yeah, they're not.

[Courtney Harrell]

For Michael, living outside of New York is a sacrifice that's worth it for his kids so they can be near family and in a place with more space and a good school. Michael does everything he can to give his kids the best life possible. But that is not always eas. There's a lot about Michael's life that means he's often dealing with extra costs and extra stress. And as a single dad on a teacher salary, he's found himself in a cycle of debt that he mostly tries not to think about. But this week he has to. This week he also added some extra costs to his budget. We caught up with him on a week when he had a chance to get away from it all and take his family on vacation. And so much happened for him while he was recording his diaries that we are going to spread his week out over two episodes. Today we'll follow Michael through part one of his week, the cruise. I'm Courtney Harrell and this is what we spend. Why did you decide to have kids?

[Michael]

Oh, because I wanted to be in debt. I thought it'd be really fun. I always, always, always wanted to be a dad since I was 17 and it was very hard for me to come out as gay because I thought that meant I would never be a dad. So I really, I was in a relationship with a woman for two years, was on track to get married. We talked about getting married and then I really loved her so much that I did not want to ruin her life by, you know, dealing with this later on. So I really felt like the opportunity to be a dad was over.

[Courtney Harrell]

Why did you always want to be a dad? Like, what was the Draw for you.

[Michael]

In short, I had a horrible father. Really? It's hard. Not a good person.

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah.

[Michael]

Sociopath. Never present. Used to call me sissy mama's boy, you know, very damaging. And I think I really wanted to rewrite that history and change that course and be the father that I never had.

[Courtney Harrell]

Then in his early 40s, he was in a relationship with a guy who'd had kids via surrogacy. And even though they broke up, spending time with those kids really clarified for Michael that he wanted kids no matter what. So Michael moved forward with surrogacy for himself. It cost him about $125,000 at the time. He had the savings to pay for most of that, and his family helped him with the rest. But it did mean that he went into parenthood with a much smaller safety net. The decision to be a single dad is such a huge one in terms of your time and emotional commitment. But how did you think about that financially?

[Michael]

Denial. It's a theme.

[Courtney Harrell]

You were just like, I don't know. I'm going to. I'm going to figure it out.

[Michael]

Yeah, well, that's the thing my therapist says to me all the time. He's like, you always figure things out. You just figure it out. And I'm like, I do. I do just figure things out. People don't talk about the expenses after having the baby. Like, what is your plan for childcare? What is your plan for daycare? What is your plan for, you know, all these other things that come up. Like, we're also focused on the cute little baby.

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah.

[Michael]

That there's so much more that I think that if you think through it, nobody would have kids.

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah.

[Michael]

You know, it's. It's really, really expensive. And I have never had a nanny. My mom has helped me the most. Friends and family have helped me a ton. People were extremely generous to me when the kids were born with, you know, clothing and furniture, and I was just showered in love. But the. You know, I look back now, I'm like, I would trade in all those onesies. Just have had a night nurse because I haven't slept in, like, 10 years.

[Courtney Harrell]

These days, Michael's mom helps him with the twins so he doesn't have to pay for childcare outside of school hours. She's often the one who cooks the twins dinner. And Michael has generally figured everything else out. But things have been much tighter than he'd like them to be.

[Michael]

I have $306 in my savings account because they require that you have $300. I really splurged and I keep 306 in there. My checking account for honestly the past few years has never gone over. It lives between 4 and 6,000. Yeah, I don't want to blame them, but you know, the. It's all their fault. I actually was doing really well financially until I paid for surrogacy.

[Courtney Harrell]

Let's get into Michael's numbers. At his full time job, he gets a check for $1,484.64 every other week, which means he's bringing home about $39,000 a year. That's after taxes. And it's also after a $12,000 fee for the twins to go to the private school where he teaches. Michael also has a second job, tutoring. That income is inconsistent, but he guesses he makes an extra $20,000 a year.

[Michael]

The hours are insane. I get home from my full time job at 4 o' clock and I start tutoring and go from 4:30 to 9:30 or 5. Monday through Thursday and then Sundays. I tutor anywhere from 8 to 9 kids. But it is the only way. I mean I am in debt, but it is what's keeping me out of mortgage.

[Courtney Harrell]

And do you share expenses with anyone like your kind of regular life expenses?

[Michael]

No. I would like to get married just for the sole purpose of having somebody split the mortgage. I'm all for an arranged marriage at this moment. Anyone? Anyone out there? Anyone?

[Courtney Harrell]

Okay, so on his own, Michael is putting $2,800 a month toward his housing. That's a combination of his mortgage and paying off a loan he used to put an addition on his house.

[Michael]

Side note, we just did the math of the income which is about 3,000amonth. So whoop, that's gone. My phone is $145.

[Courtney Harrell]

His electric, gas and water bills combined are 425amonth. Cable is $170 a month. And gas for his car tends to be about $240 a month.

[Michael]

There's a car payment for a used car that's about $300 a month. I have to pay tolls to get back and forth to school and that is a total of $80 a month. Food varies but is very expensive right now. And so 400 to 450.

[Courtney Harrell]

Yep.

[Michael]

The snacks. The damn snacks. They just are constantly eating snacks. I try to limit. I'm like two snacks a day. That's it. Two.

[Courtney Harrell]

The twins also go to karate for 300amonth. And he has a gym membership for 80amonth.

[Michael]

I have to pay for life insurance as A single parent, that's very important. That works out to about $230 a month therapy. Lord Jesus knows I need it.

[Courtney Harrell]

Looking at these numbers, therapy is 300amonth. The family is on a state health plan, which is 160amonth. And Michael also has some health expenses related to a chronic back injury and tinnitus that costs him about 330amonth.

[Michael]

Okay, that's enough.

[Courtney Harrell]

So this is so much more than you're reliably bringing in a month. And does that mean a bunch of things are just going on credit cards? Like, how are you, like, literally, how are you making it work?

[Michael]

Everything goes on one credit card because it gets me miles. And that's also how we fly. Okay. So my credit card just feels like I can't get it under control. So my credit card gets really high. And then I take money out of the home equity line of credit to pay off the credit card.

[Courtney Harrell]

A home equity line of credit is kind of like getting a credit card, but you borrow against the equity in your house and it typically has lower interest rates. Michael currently owes 62,000 on his.

[Michael]

We are in a, a moment of. I have spun out of control.

[Courtney Harrell]

Tell me about your system. Normally. How much are you normally looking at what you spend?

[Michael]

Oh, it's so generous of you to refer to it as a system. Wow, thank you. There is no system. It's a panic button. It, it is constantly looking at my checking account and panicking. Yeah, that's it. I have tried numerous times to keep track. And I'll buy a little notebook and I'll start writing things down or I'll save my receipts. And I think the most I've done it for is maybe, maybe one time I had like a good three week run and I run away from it because I'm acutely aware that I am living not even paycheck to paycheck because my paycheck doesn't cover anything.

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah.

[Michael]

I just don't. It's denial. It's pure denial and fear. There's guilt that I don't keep track and reign in the spending. And then there is. Oh, come on, you, you deserve to have a vacation. You deserve to, you know, provide this for your kids.

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah.

[Michael]

You know, and I, as. This is just another piece of it as a, as a member of the gay community, you know, a lot of the gay community does not have kids. So there's kind of this expendable income that, you know, you, your, my friends, you know, lavish trips or, you know, expensive things. Not all of them. But you know, they, they have that ability. When you have kids, everything changes. You can't be selfish. So you're spending a lot of money on your kids. You know, karate classes and soccer and, and haircuts and boots and shoes and all this non sexy stuff. And then I look at what the debt is and then I just feel utter panic and shame.

[Courtney Harrell]

I mean, you said that you're in denial. Yeah, but you don't sound like you're in denial to me. You sound like you totally know what's happening, but you don't know what you're supposed to do.

[Michael]

Yeah, I, I think there's truth to that. I mean, I'm 56, I'm not going to do a career change right now and I actually don't want to. I love teaching. I truly love it. It has been my greatest passion and it is frustrating that I don't get paid what I believe I deserve. And you know, I have three master's degrees. I have three master's degrees and make so little.

[Courtney Harrell]

After the break, we'll dive into Michael's week. Just got a new puppy or kitten.

[Michael]

Congrats.

[Courtney Harrell]

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[Michael]

Need gas?

[Courtney Harrell]

You can Venmo this. How about snacks? You can Venmo that. Your favorite band's merch? You can Venmo this or their next show. You can Venmo that. Visit Venmo me debit to learn more. The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp bank in a pursuant to license by MasterCard International, Inc. Card may be used everywhere. MasterCard is accepted. Venmo purchase restrictions apply. Before we hear about Michael's week, some context. Back in December, a teacher friend of Michael's, also a single parent with two kids, told Michael about this deal. She'd found a cruise with a buy a ticket for one kid get the second kid's ticket for free. Deal. Everyone thought that sounded amazing. And since Michael could also use credit card points to buy the flights, the whole trip would be super cheap. So Michael and his friend decided to take their kids and go over spring break. Two days into his trip, Michael started recording his audio diaries. He got going by recalling how the trip started.

[Michael]

We got to the port and we were getting all our luggage and getting everything in line and going through that whole process. And, you know, my vision of this cruise was that it was going to be a lot of elderly people. And so we're in this line, and I'm looking around and there are a lot of college kids I start to notice. And I looked at my girlfriend, I was like, wow, this is not the. The clientele I was expecting there. There seems to be a lot of young kids. She was like, I know. So anyway, didn't really pay much more attention to it. And we get on the boat, we go up to our rooms, we change into our bathing suits. We're super excited. We head down to the pool and walk into this massive spring break college party. And I wish I could say I'm embellishing this story a little bit, but I'm. I'm not. We. We soon found out that this was the cruise's largest spring break cruise that they offer. And one of the staff people told me that they were well over a thousand college kids. In short, they had literally taken over the pool area. They. There was a volleyball game going on. There were people crammed into hot tubs. It was like an STI soup. It was just selfies and bikinis and the word bro 15,000 times in about four seconds. And they were drinking hard. And mind you, we just got on the boat. So the kids looked super confused. And I'm like, what the fuck have I done?

[Courtney Harrell]

That first night on the cruise, Michael and the twins went to dinner on the boat.

[Michael]

Literally, going to the prom is what it felt like for me. I've been a teacher for over 35 years. I've attended and chaperoned more proms than I can count. And that is what dinner was.

[Courtney Harrell]

That's not an exaggeration. This is audio from dinner that night.

[Michael]

It's great to be a party. And I've now, after being on this boat for two days with our favorite college friends, realized that they're all going to that dining hall. Because that's the. The for the same reason that we're going to that dining hall. It's included. So everybody else has escaped to the other, I'm calling it a dining hall because I'm back in my college, my restaurant. See, I feel like I'm in college. So everybody else is going to the other restaurants where the college kids aren't going, but you have to pay at those, and we're going to the one that's included in our price, which means we're at. We're hanging out with fraternity and sorority people and having dinner. So I feel like I've been on this boat for, I would say, a minimum of three months. It's been two days. I have been waving a white towel off the balcony, trying to get air lifted off of it, but no one's come for me yet. So the adventure will continue later tonight. It's 11:50pm it's been an incredibly long day, and came out here to sit on the balcony of the room. We got to. Well, actually, when I got up this morning, I was looking at my finances and my account on this ship and found out that I get charged an $18 daily fee for gratuities per each one of us. So my day started off with finding out that today, just for existing on the boat, was $54. So then we got to Key West. I've never been there. It was really awesome. We ate on the boat to save money before we got off the boat.

[Courtney Harrell]

On day one, Michael and the twins went on an excursion off the boat where they bought some bottled water, some small souvenirs, and some books for the kids.

[Michael]

And then so we got back on the boat and had dinner on the boat. And it's been kind of fascinating for me. This theme of eating on this boat has really caused me to think a lot. So I grew up in an Italian family where food is love. And that's how you show people that you love them, is by feeding them. And I also grew up, you know, being told I had to eat everything on my plate. And I've passed that on to my children. And I find that I'm constantly thinking about money and food when we go out to a restaurant, which I really don't like to do with kids, I find it's, like, such a waste of money. But we do it, and we're either whatever's left over is being packed up in a. In a doggy bag to bring back home to not waste it, or I'm really pushing them to eat everything. And it's been so fascinating to be on this cruise because I haven't cared whether they eat everything or not because it's this buffet style and I've already paid for it. So I'm telling them to eat as much as they want to, not eat what they want, to go back and get seconds if they want to, not worry about it if they don't. And it's really been freeing. And I just wonder if that's what it's like to not worry about how much you're spending at a restaurant or whether your kids are eating everything or not eating everything. So that's been really kind of fascinating for me as I am on this cruise experience with children.

[Courtney Harrell]

After dinner, they all went to a dance party with their new college friends. And then Michael got the twins in bed around 10:30 and sat down on the balcony of the room.

[Michael]

All of a sudden my kid started calling me and I went in and she said, I don't feel so good. And I said, you're fine, you're just, you're tired. And I came back out to the balcony and turned around and yeah, you can't make this shit up. She vomited profusely everywhere, all over our cabin from her bed. Just leaned over and just vomited her guts out. I've been sitting here judging all these drunk sorority girls and I'm the one who's holding back my child's ponytail as she vomits everywhere. So I've been cleaning up and scrubbing a floor and had to open up a water bottle from the fridge, which is probably going to cost me $30 to pour it on the rug. And then I opened up a Coke to kind of have her drink some of the Coke so she could just soothe her stomach. And oh, it's crazy. I was just thinking how much that Coca Cola probably cost. Probably like 10 bucks from the mini fridge. But you know, we do anything for our children. So I have cleaned up vomit, spent a hundred dollars on a water and a Coca Cola, and now I'm back here out on the balcony watching my life fade in the background. So that's where I am emotionally. I'm gonna go sequester myself in this vomit smelled broom.

[Courtney Harrell]

Total for day one, which included that mini fridge Coke that actually cost $5 and a water that actually cost 7, $223.86. Foreign.

[Michael]

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[Courtney Harrell]

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[Michael]

I couldn't sleep at all last night. I had to leave the sliding glass door open a little bit in order to air the room out. And I was just worried about, about her and did not sleep at all. So this morning when the kids woke up early, I told them that they could go down, have breakfast by themselves and then take themselves to the kids club that opened at 9 o' clock because we had plans to go on a shark tour, a snorkeling shark cruise thing that my friend and her kids, we all decided that we would do that. And tickets for that were $100 for each kid. And I decided not to buy a ticket in order to save money and I would just go with them. So our tour was scheduled for 1:30. However, the kids left and I was finally able to fall back asleep and, you know, felt that we had plenty of time before we had to go for me to, you know, just go back to sleep and get some rest. And I woke up to these alarms going off on the boat that they were doing a drill. So there was like this massive alarm going off in the room which woke me up. And I looked at my phone and my friend had sent me numerous texts saying we had looked at the tickets, the time wrong, and we actually had a much earlier tour and had to be off the boat at 10:15. It was 9:45 when I got this, so I, like flew out of bed and was a complete lunatic running around. So the next step was going over and waiting. And my friend just said to me, she's like, did you, did you clear with them that you're not scuba diving and you're just going on the boat? I'm like, no, I just, you know, they can't go alone. So I bought their tickets. I'm obviously they're gonna, you know, let me go on the boat with them as a chaperone.

[Courtney Harrell]

Michael was wrong. In addition to the kids tickets, which were 100 each, he was told he had to pay for his ticket even though he was staying on the boat and far away from the sharks, Michael's cost just to ride the boat. $185.

[Michael]

And so I was a little bitter as we got on the boat and had to kind of shake it off. And we went out and got to, like, see all these sharks. It was pretty cool. And then the kids got in the water to kind of snorkel around with the sharks. And each child of mine stayed in the water for a maximum of two minutes. And I did the math in my head. I'm like, that's awesome. That was $50aminute for you to pretend that you were swimming with sharks, but congratulated them on being brave and getting in there. And it is what it is. And we got to. They threw food into the ocean and the sharks were eating it. It was pretty amazing. Pretty, pretty cool thing to see. And they were. They had a great time. Then they handed out, I guess included in the price was a cup of this, you know, rum. So I forced myself to have three, because in my mind, I'm mentally trying to make it worth it. So for $185, I had three paper cups of rum.

[Courtney Harrell]

Later, when Michael and his family were back on the cruise ship, he was looking around at all the college students, and he saw something. He saw something he might be able to use to get some of that shark money back.

[Michael]

They were wearing bracelets that said College Party Cruise 2025. So I talked to him, like, wait, is this legitimately, like, a thing on this boat? It's not just all of you coming together? And they're like, oh, no, it's an organized college party cruise. That's why there's over a thousand kids here. So it's like, ah, thank you for that information. Now, I have really, you know, have a defense here.

[Courtney Harrell]

Michael went to the people in charge of the cruise and made what I think we can all agree is the very valid argument that they should make it clear to everyone booking a ticket on a college party cruise that it is a college party cruise. And Michael says that the cruise, in response, gave him $85 back.

[Michael]

So that felt like a good win for the day that I was able to negotiate down the price of my children swimming with sharks for two minutes each. The rest of the day was really pretty tranquil. We were back here on the boat, which meant we didn't eat off the boat or do anything, anything like that. We just decided to come back and eat here on the boat and so didn't spend any more money except for that $54. That is the gratuity fee that I have to pay every Day. So that was. Went on my credit card today. I noticed that. But this is our last night. We joined all the college kids at a dance and just kind of had to, you know, really embrace all of this and have fun with it. We partied like it was 2025 with over a thousand of our college friends and had a really good night.

[Courtney Harrell]

After bringing his swimming with the shark fee down to 100, buying two keychains for the twins, and the day's gratuity fees, Michael's total for the day was 360, $62. We were talking about calculating how much, like, how many drinks you needed to drink to make something worth it. And I did wonder, like, can you normally turn off that piece of your brain that's doing the math?

[Michael]

Nope.

[Courtney Harrell]

Ever?

[Michael]

No. It. It is. It is. You're really gonna laugh. When I bought a sofa for this room, I was like, okay, how much would this be per day? Am I willing to spend, you know, $6 a day for sofa? Yeah. Okay, that's. That's. That's cool. So I need to have the sofa for a minimum of two years. Oh, that's totally doable. Like, that's how I think it's crazy.

[Courtney Harrell]

Accrue seems like a total nightmare for somebody who is anxious about money. Like, it kind of has it all. Like, it's. There's, like, the waste and there's the hidden fees. It's just. It's very fertile ground for money anxiety. And then there was this moment where you were talking about finding out what it was costing you per day just to exist on the ship. And I was like, oh, this just kind of feels like a metaphor for the situation that you're in, generally that you're like, I am at sea. I have all of these fees that I cannot avoid. And, like, nobody's going to airlift me out of here.

[Michael]

Did the image of the Titanic sinking come into your mind?

[Courtney Harrell]

No.

[Michael]

So it's interesting you say that because that is the post reflection of the cruise. The pre reflection of the cruise was, this is amazing. Everything is included. Like, we're not out spending money at restaurants because the food is included.

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah.

[Michael]

And, oh, like, we don't have to pay for entertainment. They're just going to entertain the kids.

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah.

[Michael]

Oh, like, there's a kids club, and they get to go, like, I'm not spending money on a babysitter. So initially it felt like a win. And then, like, all the little things kept coming up, but the kids loved it and there was stuff to do with them, and I wasn't having to think about how to entertain them. So that was the benefit.

[Courtney Harrell]

Michael says the kids loved it so much that without the college students, he'd probably do it again. But there is one thing he'd do differently.

[Michael]

My children are absorbing my stress about finances. It's just impossible. And I. That is something that I actually hate.

[Courtney Harrell]

And do you see that happening?

[Michael]

I do see it. I do see it. And I, I have done the full blown mistake of saying on many occasions, do you know how hard I'm working so that you can go on a cruise that was super cheap and one of you traveled for free? And then we were surrounded by college kids. Do you know how hard I work for this college party? Or, you know, I say to them, like, I'm on them all the time to turn the lights off and because they literally are physically incapable of turning off a light, it's like just every light is on in the house. So I've been on them about that. And then like, my son gets really scared at night, so sometimes I'll say, do you want me to leave the light on, honey? And he'll be like, no, I don't want you to spend the money. And I'm like, oh, God, what am I doing? And I'm like, it's okay, I can cover this. I got this one. So they, they do. They make, they make comments like that or they're very. Most of the time they're very, very grateful. And like, on vacation they would say, like, thank you so much, dad. Thank you for taking us on vacation. Or like, I know this is expensive, so thank you for bringing us, which is great. I love that they're showing gratitude.

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah.

[Michael]

I wish it wasn't tied into them knowing that I spent a lot of money.

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah.

[Michael]

On it.

[Courtney Harrell]

This is something Michael thinks about a lot. He doesn't want his kids to feel guilty about the money he spends. And if protecting his kids from his money anxiety was hard on vacation, it's even harder at home. That's where we're going to pick up with Michael next week as he leaves the cruise ship and returns to daily life. What We Spend is an Odyssey original podcast. It's written and hosted by me, Courtney Harrell. Our producers are Margot Gray and Kristin Torres. Our editor is Jonathan Menhivar. Our executive producers are Maddie Sprung Keyser and Leah Rhys Dennis. Theme song and original music by Matt McGinley. Additional music from APM music mixing by Pedro Alvira. Special thanks to Melissa Akiko Slaughter, Joel Lovell, Jenna Y. Spurman, J.D. crowley, Maura Curran, Josefina Francis, Kurt Courtney, Hilary Sheff, Sean Cherry, Laura Berman, and Hilary Van Ornam. If you want to be on what We Spend, we'd love to hear from you. Write us at WhatWe Spend podcastmail.com and tell us about yourself.

[Michael]

I'm Emma Greed and I've spent the.

[Courtney Harrell]

Last 20 years building, running and investing.

[Michael]

In some incredible businesses.

[Courtney Harrell]

I've co founded a multi billion billion dollar unicorn and had my hand in.

[Michael]

Several other companies that have generated hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. The more success I've had, the more.

[Courtney Harrell]

People started coming to me with questions.

[Michael]

How do you start a business?

[Courtney Harrell]

How do you raise money? How do I bounce back from failure? So it got me thinking. Why not just ask the people I aspire to the most?

[Michael]

How did they actually do what they do?

[Courtney Harrell]

I'm so incredibly lucky to know some of the smartest minds out there, and now I'm bringing their insights along with.

[Michael]

Mine, unfiltered, directly to you.

[Courtney Harrell]

On my new podcast, Aspire with Emma Greed, I'll dive into the big questions.

[Michael]

Everyone wants to know about success in business and in life.

[Courtney Harrell]

Through weekly conversations. You'll get the tangible tools, the real no BS stories, and undeniable little hacks that actually help you level up, listen to and follow Aspire with Emma Greed.

[Michael]

And Odyssey Podcast available now. Wherever you get your podcasts.