Trapped by Student Debt

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Trapped by Student Debt" – What We Spend
Host: Courtney Harrell
Release Date: April 9, 2025

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Introduction

In the episode titled "Trapped by Student Debt," What We Spend, hosted by Courtney Harrell, delves deep into the financial struggles associated with student loans. This episode spotlights Kelly, a 32-year-old Salt Lake City resident, who embodies the challenges faced by millions of Americans grappling with substantial student debt while striving to achieve personal milestones like homeownership and starting a family.

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Meet Kelly: Navigating Debt and Aspirations

Kelly, one of the 42.8 million Americans burdened with student loan debt, serves as the episode’s primary guest. At 32, she juggles multiple roles as a Director of Client Experience at a medical spa and an online mental wellness coach. Kelly and her husband, Ben, recently relocated from Tennessee to Salt Lake City, Utah, where Ben works as an engineer earning approximately $78,000 annually, while Kelly earns about $50,000 hourly before taxes and benefits.

Kelly’s Financial Snapshot:

• Income: Combined annual income of roughly $128,000 before taxes and health insurance.
• Debt: A staggering $202,728, including $150,000 in private student loans initially, later reduced to $150,000 after family assistance.
• Monthly Expenses: Approximately $4,800, covering rent, utilities, car insurance, groceries, and other essentials.

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The Burden of Student Debt

Kelly candidly shares her journey with student debt, highlighting a pivotal moment when her parents covered $150,000 of her private loans, reducing her debt from $300,000 to $150,000.

Courtney Harrell [03:06]: "I have $150,000. I had more. I had $300,000 after my master's. I had a great uncle pass away who was an artist. And my parents chose with their share of that that they would help pay off all my private loans. And so that was a crazy night. I remember pressing submit on $150,000 payment and just being like, holy shit. And they were like, yay. Doesn't that feel so much better? And I was kind of like, it feels like 50% better. And it still feels like I have still $150,000 of debt."

Despite this generous assistance, Kelly expresses lingering anxiety over her remaining debt, emphasizing that financial freedom still feels elusive.

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A Week in Kelly's Financial Life: Expense Tracking

The heart of the episode lies in Kelly’s decision to track her daily expenses meticulously for a week, revealing the intricate balance between her income, expenses, and debt management.

Day 1: Managing Groceries and Unexpected Expenses [03:56 - 04:08]

Kelly details her grocery shopping, spending $250.38, which included essential items like Diet Coke, eggs, and groceries totaling $600 monthly. An unexpected student loan payment led to an overdraft, forcing her to borrow from her father to cover the shortfall.

Courtney Harrell [10:07]: "When in real life, it's not."

Day 2: Financial Surprises and Debt Snowball Strategy [14:15 - 16:44]

A pleasant surprise emerges when Kelly cancels an unaffordable laser hair removal membership, resulting in a $1,000 credit. She plans to apply this windfall toward her Apple credit card, effectively advancing her debt snowball strategy.

Courtney Harrell [15:00]: "So I started a laser hair membership...but I thought I was locked into this contract anyway."

Kelly [16:44]: "A debt snowball is a strategy to tackle debt...Kelly loves tracking her debt snowball..."

Day 3: Balancing Work and Emotional Struggles [17:37 - 21:24]

Kelly recounts a day mixing work achievements with personal struggles, such as observing customers spending large sums effortlessly, which stirs feelings of jealousy and helplessness. She spent $75 primarily on gas and small treats but grappled with the contrasting financial freedom of others.

Courtney Harrell [21:17]: "I'll see you in four weeks. Good night."

Day 4: Facing Potential Jury Duty and Unplanned Expenses [25:00 - 27:52]

An unexpected jury duty summons looms, threatening unpaid time off and financial strain. Additionally, Kelly battles with automatic payments from apps like Afterpay, inadvertently increasing her expenses by $19.80. A necessary purchase of prescription sunglasses adds another $125 to her budget.

Courtney Harrell [26:41]: "I think it's $19.80... I did have to get some prescription sunglasses and it was $125."

Day 5: Finding Joy Amid Financial Constraints [28:02 - 30:44]

Kelly allows herself a spontaneous $10 mini-golf outing, recognizing the importance of play in maintaining social connections despite financial stress. This small indulgence underscores the delicate balance between necessity and leisure.

Courtney Harrell [29:22]: "I feel like I needed to play a little bit... it's a hard thing when it doesn't feel like connection is in your budget."

Day 6: Emotional Reflections and Family Aspirations [30:52 - 34:42]

The day concludes with Kelly hosting a dance party at home and emotionally watching an episode of The Bear, leading her to reflect on her desires for a stable family life free from financial anxiety. She expresses a deep longing to provide her future children with financial security and freedom from debt.

Courtney Harrell [33:19]: "I want to own a home before we have children because then we are building wealth and establishing an asset."

Day 7: The Final Stretch and Small Savings [34:42 - 35:16]

Kelly wraps up the week with another Costco trip, making frugal purchases like almond milk, eggs, and the iconic Costco hot dogs, totaling $22. Yet, she remains vigilant about her spending habits.

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Insights and Reflections

Throughout the week, Kelly's meticulous tracking highlights the relentless pressure of debt management and the emotional toll it takes. Her experiences reflect a broader societal issue where financial aspirations are often stifled by educational debts.

Courtney Harrell [35:33]: "It helped me to be a little bit more present because it brought me back to like, okay, today, what money do I have and have I sent out into the world today?"

Kelly’s reflections reveal a constant tug-of-war between maintaining control over her finances and the overwhelming nature of her debt, emphasizing that beyond numbers, money profoundly impacts emotional well-being and life choices.

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Concluding Thoughts

In "Trapped by Student Debt," What We Spend offers a raw and unfiltered look into the life of an individual striving for financial stability amidst significant debt. Kelly’s journey underscores the importance of budgeting, the emotional challenges of debt, and the societal pressures surrounding higher education costs. The episode serves as a poignant reminder of the pervasive impact of student loans on personal dreams and the relentless pursuit of financial freedom.

Courtney Harrell [36:45]: "We're not debt free from just cards again, not including my student loans, we're not debt free until almost 2027... it makes a very black and white formulaic, easy. It's simple. When in real life it's not."

Kelly’s story is a compelling call to action for more transparent conversations about money, the real costs of education, and the strategies needed to navigate financial hardships.

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Credits:
What We Spend is an Odyssey original podcast written and hosted by Courtney Harrell, with producers Margot Gray and Kristin Torres, editor Jonathan Menhivar, and executive producers Maddie Sprunkheiser and Leah Rhys Dennis. Special thanks to contributors and supporters listed in the episode.

If you’re inspired by Kelly’s story and want to share your financial journey, consider reaching out to What We Spend by writing to [e-mail].

Transcript

[Ann]

Spring savings are in the air and.

[Kelly]

At Ross where they have savings on all the brands you love from the.

[Courtney Harrell]

Latest fashion to outdoor decor and even pet supplies.

[Ann]

Savings are in every aisle.

[Kelly]

Go to ross and save 20 to 60% off other retailers prices on your favorite spring finds. I was never really a runner. The way I see running is a gift, especially when you have stage four cancer.

[Ann]

I'm Ann.

[Kelly]

I'm running the Boston Marathon presented by bank of America. I run for Dana Farber Cancer Institute to give people like me a chance to thrive in life even with cancer. Join bank of America and helping Anne's cause. Give if you can@b of a.com supportan what would you like the power to do? References to charitable organizations is not endorsement by bank of America Corporation Copyright 2025.

[Unknown]

A Heads up before you listen this podcast is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only.

[Kelly]

We are not financial advisors.

[Unknown]

You should always do your own research.

[Kelly]

And consult your own financial advisor before spending or investing your money. Please note that all income, financial information and expenses in what we spend are self reported. You know how you always want to know about everyone else's money? You do, right? Like you'll see someone buying something you want or taking some amazing vacation and you think, how can they afford that? Or you meet your friend's new girlfriend and she has some very impressive job and you think, how much money does she make? I think when it comes to money, even if you don't want to admit it, we're all a little nosy. But I don't know, I actually think that's good. I think we should be talking about money more and all the ways, big and small, that it impacts our lives. On this show, we are actually going to do that. We are going to go somewhere that we almost never get to go deep into the heart of someone else's finances. Here's how this is going to work.

[Courtney Harrell]

Work.

[Kelly]

Each week I'm going to introduce you to a new person from somewhere across the country and they are going to tell us everything about their finances. How much they make, how much they want to make, what they worry about, or if they don't worry at all. And then for one week, we'll follow them through their daily routine. Every day they'll record an audio diary with all the nitty gritty details of how they're spending their money. I mean the coffees, the groceries, the rent that's due, the car accident that suddenly upends everything. And after that, we'll talk about what the week brought up for them what it's made them feel. Because whatever you're buying or not buying or saving or spending, at the end of the day, money is always about more than your balance. I'm Courtney Harrell, and this is what we spend. How much school debt do you have?

[Ann]

I have 150,000. I had more. I had 300,000 after my master's. I had a great uncle pass away who was an artist. And my parents chose with their share of that that they would help pay off all my private loans. And so that was a crazy night. I remember pressing submit on $150,000 payment and just being like, holy shit. And they were like, yay. Doesn't that feel so much better? And I was kind of like, it feels like 50% better. And it still feels like I have still $150,000 of debt.

[Kelly]

This is Kelly.

[Courtney Harrell]

I turn 32 in one week, and I live in Salt Lake City.

[Kelly]

Kelly is One of the 42.8 million Americans who has student loan debt. And also, like a lot of her generation, she wants to buy a home and have a baby. And she's trying to figure out if it's possible to make all that work. Kelly married her husband about a year ago, and eight months ago, the two of them moved from Tennessee to Salt Lake City, Utah. Ben is an engineer for a software company. Kelly's a director of client experience at a medical spa, and she's also an online mental wellness coach.

[Courtney Harrell]

I used to be a therapist, and for lots of reasons, I'm not right now, but I will always have therapy or coaching in my life, and I will probably go back to that full time at some point.

[Kelly]

Kelly is paid hourly, but she makes about 50k a year, and Ben makes about 78k. That's before taxes and health insurance together. That puts them just under the average income for married couple families in Salt Lake City. How would you describe your relationship with money consuming?

[Courtney Harrell]

Oh, I would describe it as all consuming. Yeah. The thing that keeps, like, coming to mind is, you know when someone has, like, an addiction or a struggle and they call it like, the monkey on their back.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Courtney Harrell]

Cause you just can't get away from it. It's just clinging and it's present with you all the time. It feels like that. And I try really hard to, like.

[Ann]

Be in control, like, maintain my control.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Courtney Harrell]

But it's kind of this tug of war.

[Kelly]

What do you do on a weekly basis to manage your expenses?

[Courtney Harrell]

On a Sunday, I will sit down and look at the budget. And I made a spreadsheet.

[Kelly]

Okay. Yeah. So walk me through your spreadsheet. So I would love to hear what all of your regular expenses are and, like, what you kind of typically pay in each category.

[Courtney Harrell]

So rent and utilities. 2,800. That's pretty expensive for rent. Anytime I tell someone that, they're like, that's more than my mortgage. I'm like, yeah, I. I know. Please don't tell me what your mortgage is. I don't want to know.

[Kelly]

Two gym memberships. 108. Car insurance. 254.

[Courtney Harrell]

Gas. 125.

[Kelly]

Do you have a car payment?

[Courtney Harrell]

No, we just buy used cars.

[Kelly]

Nice.

[Courtney Harrell]

Ben's car. Basically, the roof flies off, but, you know, just don't take it on the highway, you know, we don't have a car payment.

[Kelly]

Who needs a roof?

[Courtney Harrell]

Yeah, who needs that? It's a convertible.

[Kelly]

Phone payment. 75. Pet insurance. 76. And physical therapy for 250. It helps with Kelly's chronic back pain and osteoarthritis.

[Ann]

And then groceries.

[Courtney Harrell]

This one sucks the most right now, and I really feel like everyone will understand. I put 600amonth for our groceries. And I mean, that includes like, toiletries and stuff too.

[Kelly]

They have a Costco membership, but they pay that yearly fee with the cash back they get from their credit card.

[Courtney Harrell]

Medications and supplements. Like, Ben works out, so he has.

[Ann]

Like this huge bag of protein powder.

[Courtney Harrell]

That he gets from Costco. So Ben's is mostly workout supplements and just one medication. And mine is, I think, like four medications and like a probiotic and some multivitamins. Total for that is 650 streaming platforms. No, we mooch off of our families.

[Kelly]

Some of the subscriptions are on them, though. Dropbox for 12. Soundcloud for 6. Spotify for 10. Hair.

[Ann]

My hair. I put $40 next to my hair, and that's so I can spend that $40 and get my hair washed by somebody else one time every month. And it is like the gift to me to have somebody else wash my hair every once in a while. And isn't that shitty that, like, even now, just reading my own budget, that it really is just my business? I still feel the need to justify, Like, I just need to treat myself sometimes and have my hair washed.

[Kelly]

What does that make your expenses altogether, your regular expenses?

[Courtney Harrell]

Around $4,800 a month.

[Ann]

But then you get to debt.

[Kelly]

How much debt do you have?

[Courtney Harrell]

A lot. If you are. Including my student loans, we have $202,728 in debt.

[Kelly]

Where did you go to school?

[Courtney Harrell]

I went to Belmont University in Nashville.

[Ann]

Tennessee.

[Kelly]

Why did you go to school?

[Ann]

I thought I was supposed to because I was told that, you know, this is the next step. And I think this is part of, like, the dream or the lie that was sold to my generation was like, if you don't go to college, you're gonna end up working at McDonald's, you know, and, like, you're gonna be a deadbeat and you're gonna have to live with your parents, and you're probably gonna use marijuana even, and, like, you're gonna be a bad person essentially, if you don't go to college.

[Kelly]

Kelly's degree cost about 40 grand a year. And after undergrad, Kelly went on to grad school at the same university. She has a master's in mental health counseling. But as Kelly sees it now, the math doesn't make much sense. I want to ask you something about that, and I mean, no judgment with this. How did you think you were going to pay off that amount of tuition? Or were you at the time, like, I know I can't pay this off. Like, how did you think about it then?

[Courtney Harrell]

Oh, no, it's a good question. I didn't. I did not think about it.

[Ann]

I had no clue what I was doing.

[Courtney Harrell]

It wasn't like, I wonder how I'm going to pay this off when the, you know, average annual salary for a therapist is 40 to 60 thousand dollars a year. I was not thinking about that.

[Ann]

I had no idea what I was.

[Courtney Harrell]

Doing, and I didn't really have anyone around me who was explaining what I was doing. Like, your prefrontal cortex is not developed.

[Ann]

When you are making those decisions. Ultimately, I don't regret anything because I am who I am and I'm happy, but I'm financially trapped.

[Kelly]

So that's Kelly. And this week, instead of just tracking it in her spreadsheet, she's going to tell us about every dollar she spends and every feeling that comes with it. How are you feeling about tracking your finances for a week?

[Courtney Harrell]

I'm feeling nervous because maybe I will just realize through tracking every expense that I'm actually just a dum dum. And I'm very irresponsible and this is all my fault. But I'm feeling curious. I'm just curious to see what comes of it.

[Kelly]

Yeah, me too. I will check in with you on the other side of your week. Okay.

[Courtney Harrell]

Spring Fest and Ego Days are here at Lowe's right now. Get a Free Select EGO 56 volt battery with purchase of a select trimmer blower or mower kit. Plus shop today for new and exclusive items you need for your lawn. So get ready for spring with the latest in innovation from ego, the number one rated brand in cordless outdoor power only at lowes. We help you save offer valid through 4:2. Selection varies by location while supplies last.

[Ann]

McDonald's meets the Minecraft universe with one of six collectibles and your choice of.

[Kelly]

A Big Mac or 10 piece McNuggets.

[Ann]

With spicy nether flame sauce.

[Kelly]

Now available with a Minecraft movie meal. I participate in McDonald's for a limited time. A Minecraft movie only in theaters. Day one.

[Courtney Harrell]

Today's a Monday and yesterday we bought groceries, so we got 17 items at Costco. We got bean and cheese burritos. I like those for breakfast. 35 count of Diet Coke, some smoked salmon, 24 count of eggs, Cheerios, sourdough, 4 pounds of apples, 12 count of bagels, a big vegetable mix, blueberries, peanut butter, egg whites, tortillas, chicken salad, Ritz crackers and some razor refills. It was $250.38. I got paid on Friday. I put a chunk toward our rent. I put a chunk toward credit card. Now the thing that I forgot about was that my student loan payment was going to come out this morning. So it overdrew my account, which is embarrassing as an almost 32 year old to overdraw your account just. It's embarrassing. It's something that, you know, you do when you're 22 because you're not paying attention and you're not being responsible. And while that's not the case, it's still what it feels like. So I had to actually ask my dad and my dad very graciously gave me a couple hundred dollars. And so now my account is back in the positive. And yeah, I struggle not to wonder when it's ever gonna not feel like that, when we'll have enough that I can forget. Oh yeah, this bill is gonna come due today and I can forget and it won't be a problem. It won't, it won't overdraw. It won't be the last of the money, you know, until the next paycheck. So that's. Those are my thoughts. Good night.

[Kelly]

Total spending for day one, $250.38. Day two.

[Courtney Harrell]

Okay, so I did not spend any money today. I brought my lunch, so that was good. I had a unique experience today where I actually got some money back, which is a fun and exciting thing to happen. So the story is that I had started a laser hair removal membership about a year and a half ago. Because I have pcos. So I had hair on my neck and chin and chest that I wanted removed.

[Kelly]

Pcos, or polycystic ovary syndrome, is an imbalance of hormones. It causes all kinds of problems, including excess hair growth.

[Courtney Harrell]

So I started a laser hair membership. And when we moved out here, it was just a lot more expensive living out here. And it was something that I could afford when we were in Tennessee, but I could no longer afford. But I thought I was locked into this contract anyway. I was convinced to call them and just see what they could do. And so any of the, like, services that I had paid for already but hadn't redeemed, all of that, I'm actually going to get that back. And so today when I was looking at my bank account, I saw these charges and I was like, wait, what the hell are these? Until I realized that they were actually green. And so they're positive. And that's money coming back toward my account, which is super exciting. So it's going to be actually like $1,000, which is huge. I'm just going to put that straight toward my Apple credit card. So I'm really excited. That's like actually a huge deal. It's a huge dent, gets us ahead on our debt side Snowball by like 3 months if I just put all of that money immediately toward that card, which is so freaking cool.

[Kelly]

A debt snowball is a strategy to tackle debt. It basically has you pay off your smallest debts first and then once that's paid off, you roll the payment you are making towards that debt into your next smallest debt and then you roll that snowball on and on and on until all your debt is paid off. Kelly loves tracking her debt snowball because.

[Ann]

I can solve the problem in my head. I can solve the problem in theory, and I can even work it out on paper with formulas and make it color coordinated and it makes it feel so simple and accomplishable. Even though when I look at my spreadsheet, like we're not debt free from just cards again, not including my student loans, we're not debt free until almost 2027 doing our debt snowball. And that's if we do it perfectly and nothing happens. So even though that's like a very future distant success of being debt free, I think there's something satisfying about the fact that I can see it on the paper when it finally hits zero, it just makes a very black and white formulaic, easy. It's simple. When in real life it's not.

[Kelly]

Where did you learn to do that?

[Ann]

Dave Ramsey I think I had to learn so much shit for myself because it just wasn't stuff that we talked about. When I have brought that up, like, why didn't we ever talk about that? We just didn't know that we needed to. And then I think, God, my parents were my age with two kids, and they were just figuring it out also.

[Kelly]

Kelly grew up in Colorado Springs, where her mom was a substitute teacher and her dad was an IT manager. What was money like growing up?

[Ann]

Confusing. My parents were doing very, very, very well before 2008, and then the recession happened. And so I remember. All I remember is going from we don't talk about it and really aren't worried about it to like, we can't buy milk anymore and we only go into town once a week. I remember that being, like, frustrating, confusing. But I could tell that my parents were really upset and anxious, and so it wasn't something where I felt like I could, like, be curious about it. It was just kind of like, this is how life is now. No questions asked. I don't remember having any conversations about money. I don't remember ever learning about money. I kind of wish I had had allowance because maybe I would have learned sooner, like, what budgeting was and learned at a younger age. Maybe some of those natural consequences of, like, okay, this is the money that you have. So if you spend this money on this stuffed animal, then you don't have any more money until your next allowance. Right? Or whatever. I just. I wasn't taught anything about it. I mean, nothing. I went into my adult life having absolutely no clue about money.

[Kelly]

Kelly's total spending for day two was was zero dollars with a surprise income of $1,000. And that brings us to day three. Day three turned out to have another fun surprise. Kelly helped throw a lip filler party for their clients at the Med spa where she works. So as a reward, her boss said she could get a treatment for free.

[Unknown]

So I got lip injections, which is not something I ever thought I would do, but if they're free, why the hell not?

[Courtney Harrell]

That's really cool.

[Unknown]

We did over $10,000 today at this spa, and we've had some really good days like that where it's 10, 15, 20, 25, sometimes more in a day, which is incredible. Days like today where there's a lot of money passing through my hands, it's such an interesting type of day. It does. Sometimes I do see the dichotomy of, like, having my feelings about money, where I feel, like, trapped and, like, it's something I'm never going to escape, or I can't work hard enough to get out of this. And then sometimes I see people come in, and because I work at the front desk, I build those invoices and I see the tickets, and I know how much they're about to spend. And some of these people, it's like seven or eight grand, and they won't even stop at the desk to, like, hear how much it was.

[Courtney Harrell]

They're just like, okay, thank you, guys so much for everything. Give me a call. You have my card on file, and.

[Unknown]

I'll see you in four weeks. And they just walk out the door, and they don't know, know or care that I'm about to charge $8,000 to their card. Like, that is incredible. It's insane to me. And my boss caught me at one point, like, in shock about that, and she was like, does that make you, like, mad? And I was like, no, it's not even mad. Like, I guess jealous, maybe. I'm jealous that someone has that experience of life that I, you know, I don't think I'll ever experience that. Maybe I will, but I just think they have a different experience of being alive. I did end up spending more money today than I had anticipated. I got gas, and I thought that.

[Kelly]

Kelly got gas for her car, some pretzel bites and a Coke, bringing her total for the day to $75.

[Unknown]

Not a bad day. And we'll see what we do tomorrow. Good night.

[Kelly]

You talked in your audio diary about the women at your work who don't even stop to see how many thousands of dollars you're charging to their card. Yeah. Have you ever been that carefree about money?

[Ann]

No. No. I have never felt that kind of freedom around money. I think about money every day, multiple times a day, and sometimes it wins. Like on Friday, Ben and I had a tiff a moment where it was like, I'm really stressed out about money, and I don't feel like you're on the same page with me. And I was like, I don't feel like you're on the same page with me. Me, because I'm not so stressed about money right now. Because actually, I think we're doing well. And the reality is we. What that means is we just need to sit down and have a budget meeting. There are two possible relationships with money. Either it's in control of you, or you're in control of it. And the moment that you're afraid to look at your bank account, you've lost control. So, like, that's the moment when you need to just dig into that feeling of fear and just redo your budget because it puts you back into that control.

[Kelly]

Do you feel in control?

[Ann]

I think I feel as in control as I possibly can be. But God, it's frustrating that there are these things that are bigger than us and out of our control.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Ann]

You know, like God forbid our rent gets raised in November. I don't. I don't know. But that shit is not in my control.

[Courtney Harrell]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments. But that's weird.

[Ann]

Okay, one judgment.

[Courtney Harrell]

Anyway, give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront.

[Kelly]

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[Unknown]

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[Kelly]

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[Unknown]

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[Kelly]

Day 4 Good morning.

[Unknown]

I got summoned to jury duty in the mail yesterday so I had to fill out a form basically and to see if I like qualify like capable and I am really hoping that I don't get called because I'm hourly and so depending on it gave like a range. It was like a for basically the whole month of September. It was like 9:2 to 9:21 I think is what it said. And so if it actually went on that long I would have to be unpaid that whole time because I don't have pto. And I wish that on the jury duty thing they gave a place where you could explain that. But also I guess that that would mean that the only people on jump juries were people who were financially stable and were like salaried employees or on some other kind of like supplemental income. But like it would be bad if there were no hourly employees on juries I guess. But I hope it's not me.

[Courtney Harrell]

You know what is the worst those apps like Afterpay and Affirm and all of those. I mean I love them and also I hate it. One of my friends had a birthday last month and I bought her this framed picture of she and I. And I used the afterpay app. And so it's been like, you know, every week I have a payment of 19. And so even though I didn't intend to spend any money today, I actually spent $19 because that payment came out. I think it's $19.80, I'm pretty sure. Oh, another thing that I forgot. Last weekend my prescription sunglasses broke, which is devastating because it means I have to drive in my regular prescription glasses. And when it is super bright outside, that hurts my face. And so I did have to get some prescription sunglasses and it was $125. Anyway, hopefully those get here soon. I think that's about it. Over and out.

[Kelly]

Total spending for day four, $144.80.

[Courtney Harrell]

Hi John, how are ya? I'm doing good. What you thinking about having today? I need some coffee. I do too. Okay. I just left the Harmon's with my coffee, said bye to John, eaten my banana, and I'm walking back to work. Sometimes I. It's really hard because.

[Ann]

I will do.

[Courtney Harrell]

Things like that, like didn't make my coffee at home, so I want to get a coffee out sometimes. I guess it's hard because I make these little choices all day about my life right now, right here, today, in this moment. And I have these thoughts, like.

[Ann]

Now.

[Courtney Harrell]

I'm $20 further away from my goal of having a child. And it's really. Maybe that's, maybe that's too much. Maybe that's so dramatic. But that's how it feels sometimes. Like I really want these things. I want to own a house, I want to have a child. But this morning I really wanted a coffee and. And it makes me feel selfish.

[Kelly]

After getting coffee, Kelly went to work. She ended up buying an audiobook for $15. And then after work she went straight to PT.

[Courtney Harrell]

And after that we were driving home and we drove past this place that we drive past all the time. It's called Boondocks. But we like looked at it I guess this time as we were driving past and we saw that they have mini golf. And so we decided we had some cash and so we decided to pop in and see how much it would cost. And it was actually just $10 a piece to do mini golf. So we used a twenty dollar bill and we bought a round of mini golf. And so we played a little bit and it actually was so cool. We'll probably go back, but it was really good. I feel like we needed to play a little bit. I think one of the Hard things about feeling financially strained is that you. The first thing to go away is play. And I think that play is one of the ways that we connect with other people. And so that can be hard when it doesn't feel like connection is in your budget. So I'm glad that we decided to do that, even though it wasn't something that we had planned for or budgeted for.

[Kelly]

Total spending for day five, $40.65 day six.

[Courtney Harrell]

So we had a little dance party at our house for a little while this evening with a guest list of. Of two. It's just me and Ben. And we put on. We made Alexa do funky lights in the house. And we dressed up in little, like, going to a club, outfits, costumes. And we were like, hey, do you come here often? Do you want to, like, dance? And we just danced and kind of hung out and played together and. And then after that, we watched an episode of the Bear. There was an episode that we watched tonight, without giving too many spoilers, where one of the characters is in labor and she's delivering her child. And I sobbed. I mean, like, the whole episode I was crying. She's giving birth to her first kid. And I want that so much. I want my kids to come into an environment where it's not like this. I want them to feel freedom and ease, and I don't want them to ever have to worry. And it's funny to realize that and know the. My parents never wanted that for me either. And yet here we are. But I feel very privileged that, like, no matter how bad it gets, I'm always going to have this net that some people won't have. And I know that that sets me apart. It. It makes me very, very lucky. And I'm super grateful for we'll never be starving. But I still want the thing. I want the family and the house and the ease and not tens of thousands of dollars of debt. It is a little after midnight, so I really should probably go to bed and come at it again tomorrow. And maybe it won't feel quite like this.

[Kelly]

You talked a bunch in your diaries about wanting a kid.

[Ann]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

What is the number or the situation that will tell you that you can.

[Ann]

Do it, barring just a random infusion of a million dollars?

[Kelly]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ann]

I would really like to own a home before we have children because then we are building wealth and establishing an asset. I am afraid that if we had a kid before we owned a home, that we would be lifelong renters with essentially, like, no accruing wealth, growing nothing for them. Like, I want them to not have to feel this way. I don't want to pass on a legacy of being trapped. Yeah, I wouldn't wish that on another person in general, and I certainly wouldn't wish that on anyone that I brought into the world on purpose.

[Courtney Harrell]

Day 7 okay, this is Sunday. This is my last one. Today we went to Costco because we needed some almond milk and eggs. So the almond milk at Costco is $13. And then for two dozen eggs, that's nine, I think. And then of course, we had to get the $50 hot dogs, too, because that is like how you do life when you have a Costco membership. You go and get your groceries and then you get the hot dog. It's a dollar fifty. It's never inflated.

[Kelly]

Altogether, Kelly's spending for the week was $581.83. What was the experience of tracking your finances for the week like?

[Ann]

It helped me examine my mindset about it a little bit more, and it helped me actually not feel quite as bad. I feel a little bit better after having done it than I did before because this is exhausting. It's exhausting to be dual income, no kids, we're both working full time. We work really hard and barely creeping forward. I mean, by centimeters and getting out of debt and hoping to one day be able to buy a house and start a family. And I get that gets really heavy because it is just like this big amorphous thing a lot of the time. That is more of a feeling. And so maybe what was so helpful about it was that it did help me to be a little bit more present because it brought me back to like, okay, today, what money do I have and have I sent out into the world today? Which is, of course, all that's in our control.

[Kelly]

Kelly lucked out and didn't get selected for jury duty, and in the month after we recorded this episode, her debt dropped to $200,000. What we spend is an Odyssey original podcast. It's written and hosted by me, Courtney Harrell. Our producers are Margot Gray and Kristin Torres. Our editor is Jonathan Menhivar. Our executive producers are Maddie Sprunkheiser and Leah Rhys Dennis. Theme song and original music by Matt McGinley. Additional music from APM music mixing by Pedro Alvira. Special thanks to Melissa Akiko Slaughter, Joel Lovell, Jenna Ysperman, J.D. crowley, Maura Curran, Josephine, Tina Francis, Kurt Courtney, Hilary Sheff, Sean Cherry, Laura Berman, and Hilary Van Ornam. If you want to be on what We Spend, we'd love to hear from you. Write us atwhatwe spend podcastmail.com.