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- [00:00]
Trish Westcote Pound
Foreign.
- [00:06]
Laura Vinrut Poole
I'm Laura Vinrut Poole of Capital, and this is what we wore. Trish Westcote Pound founded TWP after a winding journey through the fashion industry, experiencing both success and failure. She's a testament to the full circle nature of life. Now partnering with Andrew Rosen again of theory. 30 years later. We've met once, and actually we've maybe met more than that. I may have met you while in the theory days. I don't know much about you. Tell me where you're from originally.
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Trish Westcote Pound
I grew up in Oklahoma. Right on the. Yeah, right on the border of Kansas and Oklahoma. So Midwestern.
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Laura Vinrut Poole
And how would you describe your childhood?
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Trish Westcote Pound
Like I said, I grew up right on the border of Kansas and Oklahoma, and I grew up in a very small town. My mother was very young when she had me. A lot of the takeaways that I have now and even some of the influences that I have now comes from that time, right? It's like, you know, very Midwestern in the fat in just having a good work ethic was the most important thing, you know. And, you know, even to this day, I pride myself on my work ethic. Like I'm going to, you know, in school, when you get like, the perfect attendance record, I'm the girl that got the perfect attendance record, you know. So I think that, like, a lot of, like, just growing up in the Midwest was about just having a great work ethic for me. And I understood at a very early age that whatever was my life was going to be, it was going to be up to me to make it and to make my life what I wanted it to be. I think that a lot of my drive comes from that. I think a lot of my persistence comes from that. I think that there are a wealth of things that come, you know, from my childhood, although it wasn't a perfect childhood. I'm not sure anyone has that. But it definitely gave me the drive, the pers, the perseverance, the work ethic that I think has a lot to do with where I am in my life now.
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Laura Vinrut Poole
Was fashion or were clothes a part of that? Did your mom make your clothes or your grandmother?
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Trish Westcote Pound
Where did it start? No, not at all, actually, you know, we were. We were just lucky to have clothes, you know, we were. We didn't grow up with a lot of money. So it was like, you know, I remember going to get, you know, those few things you got before school and, you know, and what a big deal that was and how exciting that was. So there were definitely moments like that in my childhood. The biggest thing. And it's funny, because I just recently thought of this when people say, how did you end up in fashion? The truth is, it was kind of serendipitous because I just ended up in fashion. It wasn't like I went to school. I wanted to go to law school. I lived in D.C. i worked for a lobbying firm. And then one summer, I came to New York, and I stayed. And that kind of like, that decision to come to New York. There's a few decisions you make in your early life that you don't know at the time that they're going to completely change the path and direction of your life. But I think that that one of them. As a young child, I had this desire to make everything around me beautiful. It was very important. Like, that was, like, I just wanted everything to be pretty, you know? And even now, I tend to band aid things that are difficult by making them pretty. You know, like, by taking either a lesson from them or applying them in some way. So I don't know. It's just, like, I have this ability to see the beauty and things that aren't always beautiful. Even now, like, I'll sit and look at a chair, and I'll, like, go and rearrange it, you know, whatever the chair is, to create a moment so that that chair becomes aesthetically pleasing. You know, I cook more if my dishes are nice, you know, like, I've.
- [03:35]
Laura Vinrut Poole
Been in your apartment, and it is very beautiful.
- [03:38]
Trish Westcote Pound
Oh, thank you. We're very lucky to have the space that we do in New York. You know, it's. It's. I work as. You know, like, when we first started showing the collection, it was in my apartment. And then the space in the very top became available. And it's just been. I mean, my commute is very simple. It's two floors. When I was younger, like. Like I said, it wasn't like, you know, fashion was a luxury, you know? So, like, for me, it was like, whatever things I got, you know, for school, I'd have to be really creative to make them look different. Do you know what I mean? So it's like, there's a creative lens that kind of came into my early childhood, like I said, at this innate desire to make things around me really beautiful. And also, like, I was crazy about paper dolls. Like, I mean, up until probably way too late in life. Do you mean, like. And I became obsessed with the idea, you know, because it just gave me the opportunity to look at size and proportions and to do all these things and to make Something that was kind of like, at the end, a cohesive, beautiful thing, you know, So I really enjoyed things. Like, I always enjoyed making things pretty.
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Laura Vinrut Poole
Did you learn to sew? I mean, were you. Were you altering things when you bought them at thrift stores or.
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Trish Westcote Pound
Not really. No. My mom wasn't. My mom wasn't a homemaker like that, and we didn't. I didn't really have anyone around me. It was more that, you know, the tucking or the. You know what I mean, rolling it up or the. It was always.
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Laura Vinrut Poole
Which is really. Which is really what your clothes are now. It's interesting. Yeah.
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Trish Westcote Pound
I.
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Laura Vinrut Poole
But also, they're old and they're. They're all kind of.
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Trish Westcote Pound
I put it on. It's like, if you. If you, like, everything's just. I like a zhuzh. But it was more like that or just like, making things cool, like, you know, by changing my shoelaces. It was like, little creative tweaks to make what limited wardrobe. I had kind of stretch a little bit. There was always this, like. That was always a part of me. When I really, really, really, really kind of like, went from being president to being a creative director. Was also just this moment in my career where I was working with Andrew at Theory, and we had a design director who didn't complete the season, didn't even start the season, and Andrew was like, well, you can do it. And I was like, I absolutely cannot do it. I don't want to do it, number one. You know, Number two, I didn't get. I didn't for it. And that was always kind of a really difficult thing for me because I'm such a purist in a lot of things. That I didn't go to school for design made me feel like I could never be a designer.
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Laura Vinrut Poole
Let's talk about you. So you went to school for political science and psychology, and then you went to law school?
- [06:03]
Trish Westcote Pound
No, I wanted to go to law school. So we went to D.C. yeah. Sorry, I didn't go to law school. Probably would have been a good idea, because I've had a lot of experiences where law would have come in handy, but unfortunately, I didn't. I actually didn't get in. I didn't really plan for that. I kind of thought at some point that just seemed a good idea. But also, remember that my. For my generation, it was like, that was one of the most, you know, like, go to law school, you know, be a doctor, you know. Yeah, exactly. When I came to New York, I had two jobs. I worked as a receptionist at Calvin Klein. I had friends that were at New York.
- [06:37]
Laura Vinrut Poole
And how did that happen?
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Trish Westcote Pound
I had friends that were at Georgetown. And when they all moved back to New York just from living in dc, I knew one person who was. In fact. And I knew one person who was a party promoter. So I worked as a receptionist at Calvin Klein during the day, and then at night I worked at Nell's, which.
- [06:54]
Laura Vinrut Poole
Was a. Oh, my God, that's amazing. Wait, let me. The first part of it. What I remember about Calvin Klein at that time was you couldn't come in with coffee from, you know, a New York coffee cup. When you came into Calvin Klein, you had to pour it into one of their coffee cups, even as a visitor.
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Trish Westcote Pound
Oh, it was crazy. Yeah.
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Laura Vinrut Poole
So that must have been a real rude awakening coming from D.C. yeah, for.
- [07:15]
Trish Westcote Pound
Me, it was just kind of like. Yeah, it was a mind numbing, to be honest, because I was a receptionist and I wasn't allowed to have anything on my desk, and I wasn't allowed. And I would always be like, do you have work for me to do? Like, do you need anything done? I'm happy to do anything while I'm sitting here. Please pick me. But it was like, just like, you know, shoulders back and down, sitting straight up, you know, so that lasted a minute. And then after.
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Laura Vinrut Poole
And then nails. Tell me about that, though.
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Trish Westcote Pound
Oh, nails. Okay. So that was. So I knew, like I said, I knew someone who was a party promoter. And I moved to New York, and I literally didn't have the money to live in New York. In fact, I was so broke that I would rollerblade everywhere because I had no money to take any kind of public transportation. And I was scared to death of the subway. Anyway, I think I was dating a guy once who said that someone saw me holding onto the back of a bus and it might have been his girlfriend. Not that I would dare do that now. So I worked at Nails at night. So I would basically go to Calvin Klein of the day and sit and be very straight and, you know, whatever. And then at night I would go and I'd work the door and at Nels, and.
- [08:17]
Laura Vinrut Poole
That's amazing.
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Trish Westcote Pound
Yeah. The first night I worked actually at Nels, there was a guy named Mark Baker who was a major promoter and, you know, always, like, brought in, you know, beautiful girls and models and what have you, whatnot. And there was a line at Nels, and in my Midwestern mind, like, you wait in line, right? And when it's your turn, it's your turn. You know what I mean? So this Whole idea that some people. And this was difficult for me and really why I never went in after I got off work, I left. You know what I mean? So I was like, ugh, not for me. Just because I felt like it wasn't fair. I know that sounds crazy, but I was like, I don't know, I had this like, kind of like, you know, about it a bit. But really, the first night I was at Nell's, Mark Baker walks in and, you know, skips the lines. He's a promoter, fair enough, you know, with these beautiful girls and. And he goes to shake hands with this guy that's waiting in the line and the guy stabs him.
- [09:02]
Laura Vinrut Poole
What?
- [09:03]
Trish Westcote Pound
Yes, Trish stabbed him because he was.
- [09:06]
Laura Vinrut Poole
Mad that he got. I mean, he didn't even know.
- [09:08]
Trish Westcote Pound
There was some beef. I mean, at the time, you know. Yeah, there was some beef between these two guys. And instead. And like, so the police come, the ambulance comes, he ends up being fine and survived and everything. But the biggest thing, and this was my first night working was that everyone after, like, was like, when are we getting in? And I'm like, wait, this guy just got stabbed? Do you know what I mean? And you were shaking his hand, so I assumed that you were friends, you know what I mean? And apparently not, you know, at that time too.
- [09:36]
Laura Vinrut Poole
So working at Calvin Klein in the day, what did you learn from working at Calvin Klein?
- [09:41]
Trish Westcote Pound
Nothing. I mean, I mean, literally nothing. I mean, I guess what I learned of my takeaway was it was such a well run machine, you know what I mean? And it was. And they knew who they're. They knew who they were. They had such a strong identity, you know what I mean? So it was like there was just. That would be my takeaway now looking back, was just like how such a big machine had such a singular identity, you know what I mean?
- [10:08]
Laura Vinrut Poole
Yeah.
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Trish Westcote Pound
And I think that that was interesting that all these, you know, hundreds and hundreds of people, thousands of people that work there, you know, it's like going into a relationship.
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Laura Vinrut Poole
Yeah.
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Trish Westcote Pound
And so that from a branding perspective, when branding, you know, the way that people approach branding was different. It was like interesting, you know.
- [10:24]
Laura Vinrut Poole
Did it change the way you dress for a minute?
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Trish Westcote Pound
I've had so many different looks. I've like been our lady of Wayne Scott, you know, when I used to wear, you know, black Prada sweaters with white collar sticking out and big black skirts and, you know, heavy shoes, I've been a bohemian hippie. So I've kind of like hit it all, you know, there's not yeah, for sure. It influenced the way I work though, because at the time I just remember being like, one day I'm going to buy a Calvin Klein, you know, coat or. You know what I mean? Like, it was like that, like, you know, like I really appreciated the quality. And even now that's the biggest thing for me is fabricate starts with fabrications and just really good quality, you know. So I think that at 2, probably. Yeah.
- [11:03]
Laura Vinrut Poole
And so how did your career in fashion progress from those first two jobs that are amazing. That's like quintessential New York story.
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Trish Westcote Pound
Yeah, yeah. Especially back then too, because it was like the 90s, you know, it was like. Yeah, you know, it was like just a very different time. I mean, nails was at the time, like, I mean, it was a big deal, you know, Nelson was like the place people went, you know, and. And the guy and the meatpacking was, you know, like there was like one night after work, this guy was like, I'll take you to this place. What was it called? The Vault. That's what it was. Because I never went out. I left, I got my money, I went home. I had to go to work. The. I did it for seven years.
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Laura Vinrut Poole
Wow.
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Trish Westcote Pound
I worked clubs for seven years. Yeah. A long time. And until theory and what an unlikely.
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Laura Vinrut Poole
Path from a lobbyist in D.C. it was.
- [11:47]
Trish Westcote Pound
It was just very interesting to have all these different experiences, you know, and it was like. And for me, it's all kind of a study on human nature, you know, like anything for me is always kind of emotional and it's, you know, I feel things viscerally and it's like. So everything for me was just like, wow, you know, this whole kind of like study on. On, you know, us as people and you know, us as humans and you know, like these little, like there's all these little like microorganisms in like these little, you know, societies and all these different towns, you know, and I've always found that fascinating. It's like we live in our own world and that sometimes feel like that's the entire world. Especially with social media. It's like still, at the end of the day, it kind of feels like you have your own. You have your own people, you have your own tribe, you have your own community, you know, and. And all these different communities, you know, are just fascinating to me.
- [12:32]
Laura Vinrut Poole
And so what was your next community after that? Where did you.
- [12:34]
Trish Westcote Pound
I had a few jobs and then I ended up like my turn of luck or my. When the. Really. We all have them, we just don't realize that the time was working for Andrew, and Andrew Rosen is my partner at twp. Andrew Rosen was my mentor, was the. Andrew Rosen has affected and changed my life at a lot of different periods of my life. So it's kind of been interesting, you know, to know him. I worked for him in 1998 at Theory for seven years, and I learned how to do.
- [13:03]
Laura Vinrut Poole
And in what capacity, Trish, what were you doing at that?
- [13:06]
Trish Westcote Pound
I started as VP of sales, and then I was president, and then I became creative director, design director. I think there wasn't a creative director, design director at the time when we didn't have one, so. But the good thing about being in a startup, and I always say to everyone that's young, if you can get into a really good startup, you just have all the opportunity to learn everything. I mean, I knew about fabrications. I went to the fabric mills, I sat in the fittings. I just like everything, you know, if there was a problem, we all had to fix it. So it was an incredibly rich learning experience for me. And it really was that moment when he was like, you know, you're going to do this. You basically are the merchandiser. You're basically the one going to, you know how to do this. And I was like, I absolutely do not want to do this. And I did. And I was like, oh, I like that. But it took me a minute to be like. To kind of allow myself to like it. Do you know what I mean? Because I was, like, so much directed. I want to be a CEO one day, you know, which now I can't imagine myself being a CEO of anything, including my own life. So I don't know. But I had, like, a different. I worked on a different side of my brain then, you know, and I trained myself. Even though math wasn't necessarily easy for me, I just learned that I, you know, had retail math. I understood a percent of total. Once I understood percent of totals, my entire life changed. And I was like, I get it. You know what I mean?
- [14:22]
Laura Vinrut Poole
So did you have mentors along the way other than Andrew, within that system?
- [14:27]
Trish Westcote Pound
I guess I think at every job I had, there was someone I learned from, you know, and sometimes it's like I learned what not to do in some cases or, you know what I mean? Like, that did happen, too. But more than that, I think there was always, like, something. A big takeaway. Like, I remember working at this small knitwear company before I worked for Andrew, and the woman who was the owner and with her husband, she had such a fabulous Sense of style, you know what I mean? So I always remember, like, her coming in and me, like, you know, and her being like, you know, if you want to look, like, dressed like me, you got to sell this. And I was like, oh, you have a point, you know, but at the same time, I actually want to sell what you're wearing and dress like you. You know what I mean? Is that a possibility in this career? So everywhere I went, there was, like, someone I kind of like, remember, like. But Andrew really. Andrew really was the one that saw potential in me and then kind of like, got me to go in that direction, you know, And I. I wouldn't do what I'm doing today if it wasn't. Wasn't for him, for sure.
- [15:28]
Laura Vinrut Poole
And in what position or what job during that time stands out as the most important sort of turning point for you that changed your perspective, that creative director, 1,000%.
- [15:38]
Trish Westcote Pound
That was the moment when I was like, oh, I guess I can do this. But then, you know, I taught myself how to sketch. You know, I have pattern makers that, you know, are, you know, I'm not handcrafting my own patterns, for sure. Not doing that. But, like, I have pattern makers that I work with. I know how to make. I know how to make basics of making a pattern. I'm, you know, I'm really. I spent a lot of time. We fit probably about. So basically, I guess some people might not know the ins and outs of our business, but basically, the way that we work, which is different than some, is that we have a working atelier. And basically what that means is we have pattern makers and we have seamstresses, and we have sample hands, and we, you know, we have an entire pattern room in New York City, and we make everything in New York City. We're very involved. And so I fit these garments at least six to seven times. I mean, not that I should be fitting them that much, but until we get them to production, so we're constantly going through and fitting and fitting and.
- [16:35]
Laura Vinrut Poole
Fitting, knowing how to. To make patterns. And that whole process. Was that from Theory or was that from Theory?
- [16:42]
Trish Westcote Pound
Well, what. It started at Theory, and then when I left Theory, I had a couple of jobs, and then I started this company called Hood Hippie. And when I started Hode Hippie, I had, like, $40,000 in my bank account. I was a single mom, and it was rolling racks in the house. You know, this is not my first time with rolling racks in my house. You know, it's kind of been a recurring theme, but when I Did that. I was like. I don't know why. It was like, I was at Liz Claiborne, and I had this job as, like, a creative director and president of this line called Laundry. And it was like a short. I was there six months. Like, literally, they were just selling things off. I got there, and then they just started selling things off. I think that taught me about production and supply chain and all of the stuff, and that really kind of introduced me to Asia. So that was kind of a big moment. I wasn't there long, but I think it was like all those little things that happened after Theory where I was like, okay, well, if I'm going to be have this title, then I actually have to do the job. And so then I started to just learn and just hone different things, like teaching myself to sketch, really doing my own fabrics. And now it's like, how many years later, you know? A couple. I mean. Oh, God, a while. Yeah, a long time. Like, 18 years later, 15 years later. You know, even. It just. Even to this day where I'm just like, okay, you know, I. I'm okay. I know how to do my job, you know, but every day I wake up and I'm like, how do I do my job better? You know?
- [18:07]
Laura Vinrut Poole
And then tell me about Haute Hippie. Like, what had you always wanted to start your own collection? How did that come about? Or did you see a big hole in the market?
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Trish Westcote Pound
It's always been holes in the market for me, and I always kind of start. I'm not always, but I kind of like when businesses take off for me, they're sometimes in difficult times. Like, hoat hippie was 2008.
- [18:23]
Laura Vinrut Poole
Oh, my God.
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Trish Westcote Pound
And so, yeah, the financial crisis happened in 2009.
- [18:27]
Laura Vinrut Poole
And how old was your daughter at the time?
- [18:29]
Trish Westcote Pound
Oh, my God. So 2009. Jillian was seven.
- [18:32]
Laura Vinrut Poole
Wow. And so working out of your apartment and you just had this idea that you couldn't find what?
- [18:39]
Trish Westcote Pound
Yeah, I guess I don't really know. Why? Well, I guess I'd also come from. I'd had a minute at Michael Kors, and I'd always respected Michael as a designer, and I'd always kind of thought that, you know, he was incredibly talented, but also understood his woman so much, you know, and he had all those different elements of her life. And when I was at Theory, you know, it was very much about tailoring and shirting and, you know, very specific classifications. And I kind of wanted to do something that represented all the different things I wanted that I couldn't find, you know, and and so, you know, famously, I guess, or not so much, but, you know, we did beaded, you know, skirts with sweatshirts because that's how I dressed, you know. So it was like. It was kind of just like going from something that had been very clean for a while, but then also adding in the other things that I wanted. But at the time, too, remember, basically in magazines, you could check, you know, three boxes, minimal, you know, whatever. It was funky and businesswoman. I don't even know, you know, but it was like, you know, it was. People were very much. They had one look, you know, And I didn't really always have one look. I had a lot of looks, and I think a lot of women did, but, like, it was just different. It was, you know, now everyone's so much more eclectic and mixed and. Yeah, interesting.
- [19:52]
Laura Vinrut Poole
And what I recall about the collection was that it grew really quickly and had stores, did it not?
- [19:59]
Trish Westcote Pound
It was. It was crazy. It was our first season. I missed New York because I started in. It was December, and Fashion Week is in February. And I went to. And I just started making a collection in the end of February, before I turned 40 or something. I don't know. It was like, you know, some milestone. I was like, I'm going to do this before I turn 40. I turned 40 January 23rd, so it didn't give me a lot of time, but that was my goal. And so we did this little collection, and I went to LA Market, and Betsy Eisenberg from 1011 was my rep and also a friend of mine, and she was like, I've never seen this line. I don't know what it is. Like, you know, like, I can't believe I'm taking a line I've never seen. I'm like, you got to trust me. And even though I'm really, like, I don't even know if it's any good, but it was great. I mean, that first season, we did $4 million in one market in LA.
- [20:44]
Laura Vinrut Poole
Oh, my God. And what was it like having stores? Did you. How did you do that? I mean, you've never done that before. How did you figure out how to do that?
- [20:51]
Trish Westcote Pound
You just figure it out. I mean, not well. You know what I mean? You make a lot of mistakes along the way. It was very ho. Hippie was very different because it was much more like, I did everything. Production and da, da, da, da, da. You know, and then now and, you know, and like, do we just. Just. It was do it yourself. It was like, okay, well, fake it till you make it you know what I mean? How does this work? What's it, you know, like, I knew nothing about retail. Well, yeah, nothing. Absolutely nothing. I was gonna think I worked for companies that had retail, had stores, but it was like very segmented. You know, it was a big companies at that point in time.
- [21:22]
Laura Vinrut Poole
What was your biggest struggle as an entrepreneur then?
- [21:25]
Trish Westcote Pound
It was not having a partner like Andrew Rosen.
- [21:27]
Laura Vinrut Poole
Did you ask people that you work with in the past, friends or how did you know?
- [21:32]
Trish Westcote Pound
I made a mistake. I never wanted to ask for help, you know what I mean? I never wanted to bother anyone. I never wanted to ask favors, you know what I mean? I'd ask it on behalf of theory or any company I've worked for. But then I got to a point where I was like, wow, you were able to ask, you know, or to do things when you were here, but you can't do it for yourself. And that was, and that, I mean, even probably until very recently, that was kind of like an issue for me. And now, you know, I'm, I'm very lucky because there's so many things that I don't have to worry about, you know, and that's, that's amazing. But the most challenging thing about being an entrepreneur, I didn't have any work life balance, and my work and my life blended. So people lived with me, people slept on my floor, you know what I mean? I was like, you know, I just. There was no, there was no balance, you know, And I think at the time a lot of startups were like that. I mean, you know, if you look at like, I mean, I was just watching we work or something like that, and we were not that, trust me. But like, I was just, it was just all about. You had to be there to 24 hours a day and everyone had to be, you know what I mean? It was like, go, go, go, go. And that was a mistake because I burnt people out and I burnt myself out. You know, even when Hod Hippie was going out of business, I was like on the, you know, it was like the Titanic and I was rearranging the lawn furniture, trying to make it look pretty as it was going down. You know, fashion's a grind. I mean, it seems pretty, but it, it's, it's a lot about cash flow and, you know, production and deliveries and, you know, it's, There's a lot that goes into it, you know, that's not glamorous and not fun, you know, I am aware.
- [23:10]
Laura Vinrut Poole
I know what are you most proud of and that you created with A hoot hippie.
- [23:15]
Trish Westcote Pound
It was very painful when that ended. And it was like I lost my identity, I lost my money, I got divorced. I mean, a lot happened in a very short period of time around that. So it was a very painful thing for me. And I think I had to completely detach from it to start this. I just had to let it go and wish it well and thank it for what it gave me. But I really. It was very painful. It was. It was one of the most painful things that's ever happened to me in my life. And I know that sounds crazy, but it was.
- [23:46]
Laura Vinrut Poole
Because, Trish, because you felt like a failure. Because you felt like what?
- [23:50]
Trish Westcote Pound
Both. Oh, a failure. Like, it really. The reason I started this collection was because I. Well, a few things. Number one, creatively being creative and having that outlet and having that flow, it's like an escape. It's like a beautiful. It's a beautiful place. What I mean that you can live and exist and like, I. If I could be in the flow all day long, I would. That would be my ideal, you know, So I think that I needed it. I needed it. I needed to have purpose. I need a reason to get out of bed. I need to do. I need to have something in my life that's purposeful. I think that, like, even in wanting to be, you know, to go into law, I kind of saw myself as briber strengthen in the way we were. You know what I mean? Like, I've always needed a purpose. I need something like that. I just do. I'm driven by that. And also because my daughter had seen me really fall and really, really, really make a mess of things, you know.
- [24:41]
Laura Vinrut Poole
And it was very professionally and personally.
- [24:43]
Trish Westcote Pound
And personally, yeah, at the same time. And it was really important for me that she could see me fall, but that she could also see me get back up. Because then I knew no matter what happened to her in her life, if she'd seen me fall, that, you know. And really, it was a disaster. Yes, in my life it was epically. Because it was also something that was just on me. I was an adult. Do you mean there was nothing. I made all my own decisions and ended up where I ended up. And I'm very much about being accountable. I think it's incredibly important to be accountable. But I beat myself up. And so I think that I wanted to know that no matter what happened, that, you know, that she would, at some point in her life, remember that I did it and know that she could do it too.
- [25:24]
Laura Vinrut Poole
You knew that consciously at the time you thought that. I mean, yeah, every day I woke.
- [25:27]
Trish Westcote Pound
Up and I was like, I'm getting out of bed because I have to show Jillian you can get out of bed. You know, and every day it was like a little thing, you know, because I just wanted. I thought that everyone was talking about me and what a failure I was. No one gave a. After. You know what I mean? Like, after the first time they heard it, they're like, right. No one knows, you know, but, like, in your mind, it's so much bigger, right? It's like, in your mind, it's like, oh, my God, how can I ever leave my house again? And, you know, and then. And just every day, and I kept my little pattern room, and I really spent a lot of time there, and it was a very healing place for me. And every season I'd be like, I'm going to show this season. I'd be like, oh, it's not good enough yet. You know what I mean? And that went on until Andrew, really.
- [26:04]
Laura Vinrut Poole
You already had this idea for this other collection?
- [26:07]
Trish Westcote Pound
Yeah. The same week I found a little pattern room, and I started making patterns. It was also very selfish. I needed it. It is. Being creative and having an outlet has saved my life, you know, and so I needed it. And it was like, you know, so. Yeah. So almost immediately. And it was completely the opposite of what I did.
- [26:22]
Laura Vinrut Poole
I was going to say, this is such a left turn. And did you know that that was really missing in the market? And as haute hippie was winding down, you thought, actually, people really want this.
- [26:32]
Trish Westcote Pound
I always think about, like, if you were an artist and you painted, like, you know, like, do you paint the same thing every day and get better at it? You know, that's one way, right? You know, it's like kind of they have the same style, and then there are people who kind of change their styles, and I always have to do something different than I did before. If I did it the same thing, it wouldn't be a feel like it was new or interesting to me. So. So part of it was just kind of like, okay, I want to take a minute, I want to breathe, and I want to make a really good shirt. I haven't been able to make a really good shirt in so long because I've been lost in all the. You know, it was just tumultuous at the very end. So I was like, I just want to make a good shirt. I want to make a good blazer. I want to make a good pant. I felt like there was always this. This big void in the market between contemporary and designer. And I saw it happen with theory, because there was only junior and bridge at the time, right? So at Bloomingdale's, I remember the wooden escalators, and you'd go to. And it was like dollhouse, Buffalo, you know, and Theory, you know, and then you go upstairs and it was like Ellie Tahari and Anne Klein and all that. I mean, not completely gone, but it's not what it used to be as far as size wise, because it was like, at a certain age, you just had to go up to that four. And now at any age, you can buy and shop and wear whatever you want. So I saw that happen with Contemporary. I saw that contemporary took all this market space from what was then called bridge. And so I was kind of like, well, there's gotta be something between contemporary, because I also felt at the time that a lot of the contemporary lines, the quality was kind of like, not what I thought it should be for the prices they were charging. You know, I kind of felt like the quality and the. And there was like, not for me as a consumer there. Just. I couldn't. I couldn't understand why my. The prices were going up, but the quality was going down. And then I saw in designer, and especially after Covid, when the prices, like, shot up, you know, where, you know, sweaters used to be 1500 and then there were 3000. Like, that's crazy, you know? And so I felt that I could do something in the middle of contemporary and designer that was really well made clothes with the best fabrics, and truly our fabrications come from the best mills. They're all the same mills that all the designers are using in Europe. I felt like I want to wear really well made clothes that feel good and last and, you know, can be worn in multiple ways. And I want there to be the quality there, but I don't want to pay that price point. So I kind of felt like there have to be other people that feel like I do, you know, Then Covid happened. So of course people couldn't take what they'd ordered, and it was understandable. And also it was the first time we were ever shipping. So then I'd taken what little money I had left, and at that point, I had like maybe three or four months left to pay rent, and that was it, you know, And I was like, fuck, you know, how did I get myself in this situation? You know? And then I was doing a trunk show in Miami with my friends who live there and selling my shirts, you Know, and they made all the friends come and buy a shirt. And Andrew had a woman, Joyce Gato. She had, like, had a store, knew Andrew, and I now's in real estate in Miami. And she saw Andrew and was like, oh, you should see this line Trish is doing. And I hadn't spoken to him in years, and he called me, and he's like, do you want to have lunch? And I'm like, sure, I'd love to see you. And his story is. And I guess he was like, well, bring me and show me what you're doing. And I guess probably, knowing me, I look like a bad bag lady. And I went in with some huge bag with stuff stuffed in there and started pulling it out. And he was like, okay, okay, I'll do it. I'll do this with you. And it was just like that. Like, he. He really trusts his instincts, and he really. You know, and. And I was like, oh, my God. You know, it was like the universe. And it was so funny because I had driven from New York to Florida to Miami, and on the way, I stopped in this little town. There's two. Two places in the US where this exists. One is outside of Buffalo in Lily's Dell, and the other one. Oh, my God. What's it called? It's in.
- [30:19]
Laura Vinrut Poole
Yeah. Yeah.
- [30:19]
Trish Westcote Pound
And then I. So on the way to Florida, before I'd seen Andrew and this had happened, I stopped at this little. This little place, and I'd gone to, you know, three or four because I would like to have a second or third opinion. And I was like. And this woman said, there's going to be two men that come into your life, and they're from your past, and one of them was really important in your past in business, and those are going to be your partners. And I was, like, going through the list of, you know. No, no, no, no, no, no.
- [30:47]
Laura Vinrut Poole
Did you always think it was business, or did you think it. When she said always business?
- [30:51]
Trish Westcote Pound
Yeah, she said business. Yeah.
- [30:53]
Laura Vinrut Poole
Okay.
- [30:53]
Trish Westcote Pound
The romantic part, that went away a long time ago, you know. Yeah. No, so. But it was. It was. You know, it was business. And then I got. And I kind of, like, was like, okay, you know, and she said, it's going to be okay, and, you know, people are going to buy the line. And. And. And then when I got to Florida, and then I just. It was, like, amazing. And then. And it was Andrew. And I was like, wow. You know, how incredible. Yeah. So I'm very, very, very lucky.
- [31:20]
Laura Vinrut Poole
What's the most important thing that you've Learned from Andrew first time around or this time?
- [31:26]
Trish Westcote Pound
That's a great question. I guess the first time around. It's interesting. The first time around, at the very end of theory, I had kind of always thought that I was going to be. I was the CEO in training, you know, I didn't really, at the time understand he was never going to retire and I was never going to be CEO in a Japanese company. But at the time, I was just like. When they sold to Uniglo, I was like, okay, you know, like, this is my direction. And he was like, no, Trish, you need to do this, you know, and he was like, do what you love. The money will come. And I was like, you know, and then I. And I left. I didn't want to be a merchandiser. I'd been president. I thought I was being, you know, demoted. Yeah. And at the time, I didn't understand that. You know, I always thought everything just kind of went like this, and if you work really hard, it's just going to go up, you know, I didn't understand that. It goes like this, you know, and then it, you know, throws you curve. So I. I really wasn't interested, and I left. And. Yeah, and then I ended up doing exactly what he told me I should be doing. And that was one thing. And now it's probably more. He's incredibly patient, you know, and I think maybe we all become more patient with age. But, like, you know, like, I'll get upset about, like, you know, the construction of a jacket and where's the chest piece? And how could they have sewn it without that, you know? And I'm like, you know, and he's like. He just kind of, like, he has a very calming presence. He's also very good at, like, understanding. Like, he knows how to drive. He knows how to build a business, you know, so there's a lot of stuff that I don't have to worry about now, you know, that I did. I learned. I kind of learn a lot from him every day managing people, you know, about the younger generation, you know, and how things have changed. And what have you learned about that?
- [33:03]
Laura Vinrut Poole
Speaking of. And your daughter's working with the company.
- [33:05]
Trish Westcote Pound
Yeah. Yeah, that was. That was not my first choice. In the beginning, Andrew was like, you know what? Jillian. And Jillian grew up with me. Jillian has a great eye. Jillian is the director of styling. So she's doing all the photo shoots. She's, you know, doing all of the visuals. Like, you know, she does all of the looks, and she likes it, and she's really good at it and I'm really proud of her because I was a little worried. I wasn't sure about work ethic. Like I see other kids your age, you know, and she's very driven, has a great work ethic. Andrew thought it was really important because also I bounce off of her so much, you know, and I like, it's like we travel together, we, you know, we vintage shop together. We, you know, she, her and her friends. I've kind of always been, except for a few years, the single mom that everyone's house, everyone came to my house. You know, I get them dressed to go out at night, you know, and it's like, and it's like that really interesting thing of like age because I think that youth gives you, it makes you relevant, it keeps you kind of like in the know. And I think that, that if you have older friends, they have a different perspective. You know, it's like, and their perspective is based on years of experience. And although their, their own experiences and everyone needs to have their own experiences, I think it's a really beautiful dance. So, you know, it's like, it's like kind of like I always feel like I'm doing that dance with Jillian and I feel like I'm always doing that dance with her friends. And, and so, so Andrea was like, no, this will work. And I was like so scared, you know, because I couldn't. I, you know, like, how would I ever fire my own daughter? You know what I mean? I mean, and I also didn't want her to come in and feel like my, my daughter. Do you mean like we, you know, she directly. She reports to Andrew. So the most amazing thing really has been watching her report to Andrew and learn from him. Because he was like my first boss.
- [34:50]
Laura Vinrut Poole
Yeah, exactly. Wow.
- [34:51]
Trish Westcote Pound
And now he's her first boss, you know, so there's a lot of full circle moments and all of that. But yeah, it's going, it's going great, actually. So what's the most challenging part with working with Jillian? Really? Nothing, honestly, because she reports to Andrew. You know, we don't really like, we, you know, we, we, you know, we kind of both have our own things. We, we live and work together.
- [35:11]
Laura Vinrut Poole
Yeah.
- [35:12]
Trish Westcote Pound
So it's a lot. And we travel together, so it's a lot of together. But no, it's been kind of easy. You know, I'm, I'm really happy. I was really, I was a little nervous in the beginning.
- [35:23]
Laura Vinrut Poole
Yeah.
- [35:24]
Trish Westcote Pound
Because my daughter's the most important person in my life. So, you know, and it's always weird.
- [35:27]
Laura Vinrut Poole
When work and home or human life intersects. I think I've always had a hard time balancing that. I have a 20 year old daughter also who just finished interning with me as well. And I really didn't know what her work ethic was like. She's had other jobs, but I just didn't know. And I was pleasantly surprised also.
- [35:48]
Trish Westcote Pound
Me too. And I remember Gillian had a few internships, right? Like she had like really good internships. And I remember like everyone would be like, she's amazing. I'm like, wait. She yells at me from her bedroom to get water for her. Like, I'm just like, you know what I mean? I'm like, I do know what you mean. Are you sure? But then it ended up being, I mean, it's like she. I'm like, wow, you know. Yeah, so same.
- [36:11]
Laura Vinrut Poole
Yeah, really similar. Why do you think it's so important for women to share advice and learn from other women?
- [36:17]
Trish Westcote Pound
I think it's the most important thing. And I think because when I was younger I was very, very, very close to my great grandmother and she, you know, was there for me during my childhood and, and, you know, and was the most important person in my life. And she, when she passed and I was in high school, I kind of felt like for a while, like I didn't really have older women to go to, you know what I mean? And I feel like, and I felt like I tried to replace that with different people that I met along the way and, and I was really lucky. I've had a lot of women in my life that have been amazing, great friends, but always older women. I was always, kind of always had older friends. I watch a lot of documentaries. I watched some of the best, I think are Jane Fonda's My Life in Five Acts, Nora Ephron's It's All Copy and Everything's Copy, which is great. And the one that just came out about Martha Stewart. And when you see women at a different point in their lives reflecting back, you realize that there's a lot of universal, you know, tales of the heart and truths, you know, And I think that that's a beautiful thing to see and even the difficult times because it just makes you realize we all have them.
- [37:33]
Laura Vinrut Poole
I think you also think that everybody who's really successful has not had any bumps, you know, like that everybody had perfect love life, perfect marriage, you know, all of the things. And there's not been there not been any detours. And I think when you see these, you realize I Mean, all of those women had tumultuous lives, romantic lives especially. Right?
- [37:51]
Trish Westcote Pound
Yeah, they all had romantic. And that's, that's sometimes something you do see, you know, but it's. But in Nora Ephron, I mean, when she, the title, Everything is Copy. What's amazing about that is everything is fucking copy. So it's like she, she says when she used to go home after school and her parents were home, she would walk in and they. And she might have had a bad day, you know, blah, blah, blah was mean and da, da, da, da, you know, whatever her bad day was that, you know, 12 or 14, and her parents would be everything. They just look at her and be like, everything's copy.
- [38:19]
Laura Vinrut Poole
Yeah.
- [38:19]
Trish Westcote Pound
So use it all to write to. You know what I mean?
- [38:22]
Laura Vinrut Poole
She did, she really.
- [38:23]
Trish Westcote Pound
She did, you know, So I think, you know, there's. I don't know, this is, it's a beautiful thing and there's just so many inspiring women out there to learn from.
- [38:31]
Laura Vinrut Poole
You know, but, but it sounds like you, Trish, you inherently knew that at an early age, maybe earlier than most people, that you knew that there was a reason for all this to getting you to the next place.
- [38:41]
Trish Westcote Pound
Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think that if it will you write in some situations, it's either you develop that attitude or you develop the opposite attitude and you become, you know.
- [38:49]
Laura Vinrut Poole
Yeah.
- [38:50]
Trish Westcote Pound
Why is this happening? And I've never ever said, even with like the painful stuff, I've never ever said, why is it happening? You know, I mean, it's happening, you know, So I, I don't live in the past. I keep going forward. But I, I did know very. I don't know, I just innately knew.
- [39:05]
Laura Vinrut Poole
What advice would you give somebody in their 20s, like Jillian, who's confused about their career path?
- [39:11]
Trish Westcote Pound
Maybe the same advice Andrew gave me. Oh, wow. I'm having a lot of full circle moments, but the first thing that came to my mind, so I'm going to go with that is do what you love and the money will come. I really think that we. Sometimes we have these careers and I think that we. I don't know, I just. Maybe the money will come. Okay, fine. Everyone wants to hear that. But I think do what you love. I mean, if you can find something you love to do, do it, you know, I mean, it's rare. Yeah. And it's such a gift, you know, So I think that if you find something you love, then you're very lucky.
- [39:43]
Laura Vinrut Poole
What do you hope most for the future of twp?
- [39:47]
Trish Westcote Pound
It's really important to me that we continue to evolve and we continue to make great clothes that women love and want to wear. Like, it is the most important thing to me. You know, I really. I really want to do a good job. I want people to say, she did a good job, you know, and it's not just. It's not about the recognition part, because probably this is the only interview. I don't know. I haven't done that many interviews. You know, I've just always kind of admired you and, And. And, you know, and really, really loved your store and really loved what you did and your sensibility. And, you know, I've gone to your stores, you know, a few times and a lot of times over the years, you know, and just like. And so I wanted to do that, but it's also, like, kind of getting outside my comfort zone. I'm trying to do things that. That I'm not comfortable with and trying to do them in a very honest way. And I also really am more interested in, like, who my customer is. Not in the way that I think most people are with marketing and social media now, but I'm really interested in who my actual customer is because I want to go with her, you know, to this. Wherever she's traveling, and I just throw that out. I'm obviously all of the sudden thinking of a thousand places I want to go, but it's like, I want to be. I want to. I want to do a good job. I want her to always feel like if she has an occasion, that she could come in and find something that looks good on her. You know, I mean, a lot of.
- [41:02]
Laura Vinrut Poole
Our things are, I think you're really serving her. I think you're really serving her. It's like. It's like you really want to help her, whereas it's not about who's our customer so we can sell more to her. It's like, how do we help her? How do we support her? I mean, I feel that way about your clothes. I think they're different from anything that we. That we've ever carried in that way.
- [41:19]
Trish Westcote Pound
Oh, thank you. No, it's. Thank you. Oh, my God. You just made my entire day. I was so nervous about doing this.
- [41:23]
Laura Vinrut Poole
Do you want to talk tomorrow o'clock? Tomorrow?
- [41:26]
Trish Westcote Pound
Yeah. Can we. Can we schedule this again? No. Thank you. That means a lot to me. I mean, I guess, like, I. I just want to do a good job, and I want to do a good job for who my customer is. And it's like, you know, it's Like, I love meeting my customers. I love. You know, you learn so much. I mean, you obviously know that you own a store, you're in there, you know, you. You're. You're with women all, you know, all the time. For me, it's like, I just, like. I'm like, almost like a. Like a ticker tape, a little bit like, you know, running down here. I'm like. When I go into a store, I'm like, da, da, da, da, da, da da. You know what I mean? It's like. It's like all this information comes in, and there' so much information, you know, and then you meet these incredible women. Like, I met this woman who was 60 years old who had gone through a difficult divorce and now was like. Had just gotten accepted to, like, medical school. Like, amazing. Do you know what I mean? Like, yeah. And then I'm always driven and inspired by them, you know, and so it's. It's driven and inspired by their life stories as well. And I always think that that's kind of the thing that connects us. All right? Is this universal Tales of love and tales of the heart and then also just like, figuring it out. Like, arms. You know, there's just different issues. And I fit on me, and I'm older and I'm short, and I fit on my fit model. So I'm five four, she's five ten. You know, we have completely different bodies. If I pin it on me and I pin it on her, it fits both of us. So it's also how it fits. Because a lot of times I couldn't wear pleated pants because I couldn't find any to fit me, so I made a pair that fit me, you know, now it's our number one selling pant, the Dee Dee, you know, and so it's like. Like, it's also just kind of like trying to figure out what's not there, but it's not because you're going into the market and being like. It's just kind of like what you can't find. And sometimes it's not even based on what you can't find. It's just what you want, right?
- [43:01]
Laura Vinrut Poole
Yeah.
- [43:02]
Trish Westcote Pound
And so it's like. I know. It's. It's. It's amazing. It's really. I'm lucky. I really am. I have a great job.
- [43:14]
Laura Vinrut Poole
What did you wear to the prom, Trish?
- [43:15]
Trish Westcote Pound
I didn't make it to my prom. Yeah. And I don't. And I don't. And I. I don't remember. I. I had a dress I had an outfit and I had. What was the dress? I have no idea what it even looked like. Isn't that weird? I didn't make it to my prom, but I had. It was like 86, so my hair was. My. My hair was, you know, out to here and really super big and I don't know what it was, though. I have no idea.
- [43:41]
Laura Vinrut Poole
I can't remember. Do you remember why. Why you didn't make it? Was it you had a fight with your boyfriend, you had. You had a date, you had a plan. And.
- [43:47]
Trish Westcote Pound
And I have this really. I. I have this really. I don't know, a selective memory, and there's some things I just don't tap into anymore. But it sounds like a fight with a boyfriend could have been what it was. You know what I mean? I'm not really sure, but that sounds, like, vaguely familiar. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't make it.
- [44:05]
Laura Vinrut Poole
Thank you, Trish, so much.
- [44:06]
Trish Westcote Pound
Oh, thank.
- [44:12]
Laura Vinrut Poole
What We Wore is produced by Capitol and Balto Creative Media. The original song, Someone so Enchanting, was composed and performed by Brit Drazda. Please follow us on Instagram weworepodcast for additional content and show updates. Queencitypodcastnetwork.com.