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- [00:00]
Mary Catron Zhu
Foreign.
- [00:05]
Laura Vinroot Poole
I'm Laura Vinroot Poole, and this is what we wore. Mary Catron Zhu is a London based independent designer who's designed her namesake brand for nearly 20 years and is one of the most distinct voices in the industry. Her story is an incredible lesson on focus, creativity, and being responsible to your talent and your own voice. We've met before. I think we met, honestly, like in your first season?
- [00:32]
Mary Catron Zhu
Probably. Yes. It's been for so many years. But it's so nice to reconnect. I find now, you know, I'm starting to travel a little bit more again. It's always such a pleasure when you connect with people who've seen, you know, those early steps.
- [00:46]
Laura Vinroot Poole
Yes.
- [00:46]
Mary Catron Zhu
It's nostalgic in many ways.
- [00:49]
Laura Vinroot Poole
I think it was in the Marais. I remember this beautiful showroom and that it was like a corner of a building maybe, and it was several floors and all. Wasn't it like a Flatiron building kind of?
- [01:01]
Mary Catron Zhu
Oh, yes, I remember. I think I remember exactly the one. Yes, yes. And, you know, I think even before that, you know, starting to showcase my first collections with the British Fashion Council and being part of New Gen, you know, I look back to those memories very fondly because it was a real community.
- [01:19]
Laura Vinroot Poole
It was. And it was like Christopher Kane. I mean, it was the day. I think Leigh McQueen was that kind of era. Who else at that time? Roxanda started about then Erdem, when we.
- [01:29]
Mary Catron Zhu
Were starting wanting to travel together. I think Christopher had just, you know, let's say, started establishing his name. So he probably had just moved out from, let's say, the London showrooms. But there was also Erdem. There was the late Richard Nicholl also.
- [01:47]
Laura Vinroot Poole
Yes, yes.
- [01:48]
Mary Catron Zhu
My God, I'm trying to remember back David Koma. My God, you know, so many incredible designers.
- [01:56]
Laura Vinroot Poole
Peter Pilato is a little behind.
- [01:58]
Mary Catron Zhu
Exactly, yes. Peter Piloto also. And it was, I think, you know, for us, everything was so new, but it was nice to see the camaraderie between designers and it was, you know, wonderful traveling the world as a collective because we were constant dialogue with one another. And I think that's what made London Fashion Week so great.
- [02:18]
Laura Vinroot Poole
Mary, where are you from originally?
- [02:20]
Mary Catron Zhu
I'm from Greece.
- [02:21]
Laura Vinroot Poole
Okay.
- [02:22]
Mary Catron Zhu
And actually, you know, it's been a real360 because now I live and split my time time between Athens, Florence, Rome and London.
- [02:33]
Laura Vinroot Poole
Okay, that is pretty perfect. I'll take that any day. That's a really good combo. Hopefully there's a. There's an island in the summer in there. As well.
- [02:42]
Mary Catron Zhu
There is. There is.
- [02:44]
Laura Vinroot Poole
There's always incredible. How do you think your Greek heritage informs the person that you've become?
- [02:51]
Mary Catron Zhu
I think, you know, when you mature as a designer, you realize how deeply you know, your upbringing has shaped your aesthetic. So for me, you know, my heritage is deeply rooted in Greece, and it's really, let's say, shaped my aesthetic profoundly because I now realize that growing up, you're surrounded by this very rich history, and you develop an appreciation for symmetry, for harmony, for storytelling. I think that's also very important because there's always this emphasis on narrative and the power of ideas. Being Greek and finding myself now working for Bulgari, I can almost trace back to those early steps of Soterio Bulgari being trained as a silversmith in Greece and then moving to Rome and taking inspiration from Rome. So now that I find myself being based and inspired by Italy and Rome and Florence, I see the synergy and the cultural connection between these two beautiful countries. So I think in many ways, it's influenced me, and I think it's shaped a little bit my mixture, which is an eclectic mix of patterns and colors and being quite fearless in my approach.
- [04:09]
Laura Vinroot Poole
And was creativity part of your family.
- [04:11]
Mary Catron Zhu
Growing up in a certain way? Yes. My mother is an interior designer. My grandmother was a ceramicist. My father trained as a textile engineer. Even though life took him to a different direction, there was a connection to craft and there was a connection to design. And so I think in many ways, growing up and reading, you know, the World of Interiors and Architectural Digest and all these incredible interiors magazines did, let's say, give birth to my, let's say, inquisitive nature when it comes to design.
- [04:49]
Laura Vinroot Poole
Do you have a first fashion memory?
- [04:51]
Mary Catron Zhu
It probably was meeting Pierre Cardin. He was in Greece at some point. And I remember I was still, you know, a little girl when I met him. I was probably, you know, 13, 14. I don't even remember. And, you know, then when I found myself at Central St. Martin studying his work, you know, I started connecting those dots and how, you know, how those things really make an impression to you at that kind of young age. But in terms of my own career and my own journey, I didn't grow up wanting to be a fashion designer. In fact, it was very far away from anything I was considering. I did go to Rhode Island School of Design initially to study architecture. And I think that, you know, slowly, say, led to, you know, where I am today. But I think at that, at that age, it was really, as you said, just a Fashion memory, just something that, you know, you look back at much later in life and you realize, you know, all those things inspire you and influence you in different ways.
- [05:56]
Laura Vinroot Poole
How did you get to architecture? Was your family encouraging of design?
- [06:00]
Mary Catron Zhu
I think, you know, my mother was certainly encouraging of design, my father less so. I remember when I transitioned from Rhode Island School of Design to Central Saint Martins, the University of the Arts hadn't yet been established, and so you were getting more of a diploma, let's say. And I remember so lucky and so grateful that the year I graduated from Central St Martin's it had become a university degree so you could really graduate with a bachelor's and then a master's in fashion. And so I think it was really thinking back to the early formative years in Athens. I don't think fashion, culturally was that accepted or you didn't really see a path towards carving out a career in fashion. And maybe that disheartened me to a certain extent. So I don't remember having, as I said, strong memories of wanting to be a fashion designer. But I knew that I had a love for design and a passion for really looking at applied design more than just art and design.
- [07:09]
Laura Vinroot Poole
And tell me about going to RISD and what was that like?
- [07:13]
Mary Catron Zhu
I did love my time at risd. The reasons I left and it didn't happen, it happened gradually, was at the time, I think after my first year at risd, I was back in Greece and I met my now husband and we were very much in love. And he was going to go to London to do his MSc at Imperial College. And at that time, RISD and Central Saint Martins had an exchange program.
- [07:42]
Laura Vinroot Poole
Oh, wow.
- [07:44]
Mary Catron Zhu
I went back to RISD and towards the end of my second year, I took an exchange, let's say, program for a semester. And the only available course that could admit us at the latter part of the year was BA Textile Design. Wow. And so I thought, why not? And there is a link between architecture and interiors and textile design. And it wasn't textiles for fashion. It was just a broad spectrum of looking at surface design. So I joined and I then felt slowly a shift in me in terms of the comparison between the two, let's say, educational systems. I started appreciating the liberty that you were given at Central St. Martin's and also my then partner was considering seriously to remain in the uk. And so eventually, I think after a year of continuing in London, I was offered the possibility ability to switch courses and complete my BA at Central Saint Martin's And I very Naively took that decision. And so I finished my BA in textile design. And then after that, you know, again, you. You look back at your life, and you start discovering a pattern that was forming. And a pattern that's been recurring in my own life was I was always open to a completely new challenge. And so I remember for my master's, I applied to Central Saint Martin's for fashion and then the Royal College of Art for textiles. And I think it was at that point, you know, deciding to take on the course and be led by the incredible Louise Wilson and join MA Fashion was a way for me to challenge myself and learn something new. And I think it served me well because, again, you know, you continue learning, and I've always been inspired by or driven by learning new things and discovering new things and challenging yourself in a new way. And I think even now taking on a different role on the accessories for Bulgari, it's again, rediscovering and being able to apply my talent in a different way. So I think that was the defining moment. For me, at least, deciding to join the infamous MA Fashion course at Central Saint Martins was really the beginning of everything.
- [10:11]
Laura Vinroot Poole
Do you remember creating a print that made it clear that this was the way that you wanted to go?
- [10:16]
Mary Catron Zhu
I think at that point, I was very shy. I was very uncertain of my work. I would always doubt myself. And I remember towards the end of that course, we had a fashion show, and it was part of London Fashion Week, because that was really the advantage of the MA Fashion course at Central Saint Martins. And Louise Wilson told me, and she had been very critical of my work up until this point. So I had created this collection of oversized trompe l' oeil jewelry pieces that would have been impossible to wear if they were real. And at that point, you know, the whole industry was moving into a direction of minimalism. So it was really a jolt because it was a new way of using print that was, let's say, as definitive as a cut and a drape. And she said, you're going to open the show. It's something really new. I've never seen anything like that. And that made it, you know, very real. And because I didn't come from fashion, so for her to allow me to open that show and put her faith behind my work allowed me to also develop. But it took me years to develop a confidence and a conviction that I think is absolutely necessary in our industry.
- [11:28]
Laura Vinroot Poole
Well, I also think at that time, I mean, I'd never seen anything like what you were making either. And it was so refreshing. And I mean, so saleable.
- [11:37]
Mary Catron Zhu
Yeah, I think we.
- [11:39]
Laura Vinroot Poole
From the beginning, you thought, oh, I mean, people will want to wear this.
- [11:42]
Mary Catron Zhu
It's rare. But also, if you look at it, it took a buyer to be a visionary to put it in their stores. So, you know, it's. You say it now that it's very wearable, but I don't think at the time that I was starting out, it was, you know, that obvious. I think it helped me that it was, you know, really in the midst of the recession, and certain stores and buyers who had that vision were open to embracing emerging talent and trying out something new from, you know, a commercial perspective. Also not needing to put a huge budget to testing it out in your boutique. Right.
- [12:18]
Laura Vinroot Poole
I mean, 2008 was seriously so devastating. What I really remember are these beautiful jewels. Tromp Lloyd jewels on dresses, these green, emeralds, blues and greens. I remember anyway, that, you know, you thought like, well, everybody's lost all of their money, but at least they can wear this print.
- [12:39]
Mary Catron Zhu
I mean, I think it did help that it was something different. And I think it did help that it allowed women to look at print differently and say, it doesn't need to be a floral motif or a geometric motif. Print allows you to really exercise. It's like an exercise in your limitless imagination. And I think when you started seeing women look great in these clothes and feel confident in them, I think that was the real challenge to allow women to wear a print that is so bold but feel very confident in it because it was engineered to flatter the female figure. So I think it was a combination of both. The print was very image led, and it's what I built my entire career on, the storytelling of those very image LED prints. But it was precision engineered to your body to allow a woman to feel, as I was saying before, that it hugs them as a strong cut of a dresswood or as a beautiful drape. And so I think it was the two.
- [13:42]
Laura Vinroot Poole
I've never seen anybody do what you did. I mean, you know, usually things are referencing other things, and yours really was new.
- [13:50]
Mary Catron Zhu
I think I did it because I was unafraid, because I was so clueless. Lack of a better word.
- [13:58]
Laura Vinroot Poole
And so your career really skyrocketed from this point. Tell me what that was like. How did that impact your personal life?
- [14:04]
Mary Catron Zhu
I think it never felt real. It was wonderful to be recognized. Just receiving the recognition of your peers and meeting women who appreciate your work. That was always, for me, what was the drive? Because you do realize, and I Think a lot of designers don't know that when they decide to, you know, launch their own, their namesake brands, you know, the focus and the razor sharp focus that needs to be applied and how singular your vision needs to be and how, you know, how you really need to have the strength of your own conviction because trends come and go. So as you mentioned, my work was very unique and very distinctive. So to be able to build on that without it being neither too niche, but neither, you know, lose the core and the DNA that maybe made it recognized in the first place, that's a very difficult journey to navigate independently. So up until this day, my brand is still independent. And that there were many, let's say, milestones along the way that made me question, you know, should it be independent? Do I need the support? And I think it really boils down to what you want out of it. I think if you want the independence of your voice and you believe in what you're doing and you feel that creatively you need that, you must stay independent. On the other hand, if you want to see scale and you have a different vision and you feel that your work applies to a whole different demographic, then you need the support to achieve that. So I think that was a defining moment to recognize that in my work and really prioritize what felt authentic to me. And also I was very open to a lot of different collaborations. So my way of, let's say, amplifying my own voice creatively was to do challenging projects, whether it was the New York City Ballet or the Paris Opera or Adidas or Montclair Bulgari even more recently. That was my way of really allowing myself to open up my work to a broader audience while keeping my voice creatively independent.
- [16:24]
Laura Vinroot Poole
But who has supported you along the.
- [16:25]
Mary Catron Zhu
Way, beyond Louise Wilson, who really I consider my biggest mentor. I remember after my first show as part of the Central Saint Martin's MA Fashion Show, Sarah Mower wrote or mentioned two names when she was writing for Style.com and one of the two names was my own name. And I remember, you know, Louise Wilson encouraged me to thank her. You know, she made sure that she communicates to me how important Sarah Moore is, especially in fostering and nurturing young talent. And Sara Moore has been an incredible support to me from those very early years. You know, even when I first shared with her that I was thinking of launching my own brand, I remember her telling me, mary, this is the single worst time to launch your own business. And so she was trying to, to protect me, you know, from a Very difficult time financially for the world. But at the same time, she's always been by my side, not only in, you know, writing a critical or supportive review, but on, you know, I think especially for designers, you need to have those industry veteran voices that really believe in you, because you almost are shaped by the opinion they have of you and you want to do better because you have mentors like Sarah Moore, also Nathalie Massenet, she was an incredible supporter of mine and she is a visionary in her own right. And then, you know, women like you, you know, having the support of incredible stores around the world, believe in you. That's really, it's. It's not just a case of mentorship, it's a case of, you know, feeling responsible towards the people who have seen your talent and believe in you and invested in you. I think that's what's probably been, to me, the driving force, can I say, or the backbone, or, you know, really the incredible women who work in our industry who believed in me. I would say those were the ones. And it's not just a piece of advice, it's just how you are embraced.
- [18:40]
Laura Vinroot Poole
Yeah, I mean, to have these little. These little ambassadors, I guess, across the world. Yeah, it's true. What's been the biggest personal or professional struggle throughout your career?
- [18:50]
Mary Catron Zhu
So difficult to say. I think probably being able to discover your bandwidth whilst staying very true to yourself, you know, really being experimental enough and innovative enough to feel that you're challenging yourself, but still being able to nurture your own voice. And I think this is true to this day. You have to know what you stand for and you have to know what you're creatively offering the world. You know, if you feel there's something unique there to be able to foster that is something that you don't have perspective on, you know, during those collections, during, you know, show after show after show. So I think that was the most difficult thing to not, you know, steer too far and to stay quite true to who you are, but allow yourself to grow. And then the challenges of just running your own business, you know, that is a struggle.
- [19:42]
Laura Vinroot Poole
I know I always say, like, just being in business is success.
- [19:46]
Mary Catron Zhu
Yeah, just being in business and, you know, one, you know, wanting to do that in the most respectful manner to your team, to the people who believe in you, to the women who buy your clothes. I think, you know, the, let's say, the moral compass or the ethical compass or the, let's say the value system that you run your company by is very important. It's Always been important to me, and I think it's more important now than ever before.
- [20:12]
Laura Vinroot Poole
And tell me what transformed about the way you work after the birth of your son?
- [20:17]
Mary Catron Zhu
I mean, that was, you know, a profound turning point because. And I wish we had had our son sooner even, because. Because while, you know, I was showing as part of London Fashion Week, and again, you were churning out show after show, you just couldn't see in which way you could really start a family and have time to dedicate to that family. But I was very lucky. When you were saying about earlier, the sacrifices, I always had a very singular vision, and it was my partner and my career. So anything outside of that you had to compromise on, you know, whether it's a social life or traveling for pleasure, anything, a hobby or, you know, so many things you had to have on pause for many, many years. And then I did my. My last fashion show was at the Temple of Poseidon in Sunyo, Greece, and it was my first haute couture show, and it was in support of a charity called El Pida, and it was actually in partnership with Bulgaria. And that showed me a different way of building and designing a collection, because every single piece was designed. Thinking of ideas that were birthed at the time that the Temple of Poseidon was built. And the stage, you know, the connection between the clothes, the context, the beauty of the temple, the energy of the temple, made me not want to return to showing as I showed before. Then Covid came, and then that gave me also the time to find peace in a completely different pace. And that's when I got pregnant with our son. And so since his arrival, it's changed everything. First of all, the way you manage time, how you prioritize things, how, let's say, definitive you are with certain decisions, because you can't afford to go back and forth. You know, certain decisions have to happen by instinct. And it's refreshing to have a little bit more distance, because now I'm not based 100% of my time in London. You also have a distance between yourself and your team. I never thought possible, but now I think sometimes it's refreshing because it gives you more of a helicopter view on what you're doing. So I think he's really allowed me to discover the world in a completely different way. And I feel today more creative than ever. A lot of the changes that I made to, you know, to be able to really be a mother to my son and be present made me excited again about fashion, about being creative.
- [22:54]
Laura Vinroot Poole
Well, and interesting, because around the same Time was when you became the creative director for leather goods and accessories at Bulgari, and that's a totally different category that you hadn't done before. And what's that been like?
- [23:06]
Mary Catron Zhu
It's been incredible. And I think it's really. It was the perfect timing. It was, as I said, I was at a time in my life creatively that I wanted a new challenge. And also, I have deep respect for Bulgari as a brand. And I had the opportunity to work on a number of projects and collaborations, you know, in the span of five years since that show at the Temple of Poseidon. So I've done, you know, the serpenti through the eyes of. I've done like, let's say, a high craftsmanship capsule on their bags. I've worked with the perfumes. So it's very rare, I think, in our industry to naturally develop trust and allow that trust to evolve through a number of years, where by the time I was offered to take on the creative director role, I felt that it is the right match for me creatively. They trust in my vision, and so they're very open to allowing me to bring a new perspective on the bags and the accessories. And so I think it's that trust that makes me or made me feel very or a lot more confident. And as I said, it's not something you usually have the time to really develop the trust and the relationship naturally.
- [24:25]
Laura Vinroot Poole
And then how has it changed your first business? Have you used some of the data or some of the things that you've learned at Bulgari in your. In your fashion business?
- [24:34]
Mary Catron Zhu
So much the. The data themselves, you know, also what. What, let's say, as a match for me, apart from the connection to their dual Greek and Roman roots, there's also a love of craftsmanship and timelessness in everything that Bulgari do. And I think the beauty in that is it allowed me to also look at my own brand and slow down and really think that my work is, you know, has to. You have to give it the time to develop. You know, whether it's an embroidery or it's a print or if it's a new fabrication, that you want to really bring innovation into the design of it and the creativity of it. You need to allow time. And I think it made me feel even more confident in leading a brand that is not trend driven. I think, you know, fashion goes in cycles and it's. It's always been about trends, but my work usually has fallen in a category a little bit outside of that because it's so unique and distinctive and so working at Bulgari and seeing how Bulgari really appreciates that and really looks at everything we put out there as an investment in the future. It's really a timeless piece. There's no seasonality when you talk about Bulgari jewelry or Bulgari accessories. And so I think it made me look at my own brand. Brand not differently, but really strengthen for us also, that approach and how we put a collection together. And I think in the world we live in right now, so many things have changed since when I started that. It's very important, I think, in this moment in time, for designers to really invest in their own brand in that way and really look at the voice of their brand and how they want to build that and not rush into anything and not more pressure than is necessary. If you can. If you can. Of course, not all brands have the freedom and the opportunity to work in that way.
- [26:34]
Laura Vinroot Poole
Well. And it's funny because I think you're shipping in a different cadence. You're showing differently than other people. And I have told your team, I don't really care when you ship. They're beautiful clothes. I'll sell them whenever I get them. And, you know, to think about that, I don't. There are not many brands that I could say that I feel that way about.
- [26:52]
Mary Catron Zhu
In many ways, it's a beauty, but it's also a curse because, you know, the whole world doesn't think in the way you think. But I do think clothes need to be timeless. And I feel, you know, now, because enough time has passed since the, let's say, inception of my own brand, that you see people wear pieces that, you know, I designed in 2008, 2010, and they're still wearing them today. And to me, that really is the beauty in looking at clothes as a true investment, that a woman connects in a more visceral way, in a more emotional way. You know, they're not clothes that you need because you just need to cover yourself in, you know, let's say, a piece that is functional in your everyday life. It's a piece that allows you to express yourself in a different light. And so if you look at it like that, you're really creating pieces that should be timeless in a woman's wardrobe. And the biggest, let's say, compliment is when a mother comes with her daughter and sometimes with her own mother, and they're both dressed in my brand. That's the biggest compliment I can ever receive. When I see the cross generational appreciation of the Work. Because to me, that's what it's really about.
- [28:09]
Laura Vinroot Poole
What are you most proud of as you approach 20 years in business? Other than what you just said, which.
- [28:13]
Mary Catron Zhu
I love, I think being a female, independent voice in fashion, you know, to still. To be here still, I consider.
- [28:22]
Laura Vinroot Poole
I know I agree. To still be standing. Yes. That's the hardest part.
- [28:26]
Mary Catron Zhu
To still be standing and to have a voice that is recognized and appreciated. And I see it now with my work at Bulgari. There's so much appreciation and love that I receive, you know, from the press, from, you know, women who are, you know, high jewelry clients of Bulgari, but are also clients of my own who are following my journey at Bulgari and want to support and want us to succeed in creating pieces that are truly special. I think that's what I'm most proud of. That's something I built in this time, and it really, really takes that much time to build. You can't say that when you're five years in business or seven years in business, even 10 years in business. But when you're approaching 20 years in business, I feel very proud of that time.
- [29:15]
Laura Vinroot Poole
No shade to London, but I think one thing I also think is pretty interesting is that starting out as a group with these people and being identified with a group was amazing to get recognized. I don't even think of you as a London designer. I think of you as just your own thing.
- [29:30]
Mary Catron Zhu
Yeah. I mean, I think it's something I'm so proud to have started in London because London formed me, London shaped me. And that energy of being in constant dialogue between this incredible creative community is a huge part of who I am. But I'm also equally formed by my Greek heritage. And I also think you really shape yourself and shape shift in many ways based on the challenges that you take on. My role now at Bulgari is really redefining the way I think of design, if one can say that, because it's looking at design in a 3D form. And Bulgari were very bold to bring in a creative director for that category. The first ever creative director they've had who doesn't come from accessories. It's an incredible heritage brand, and usually heritage brand don't make such bold, audacious choices, but Bvlgari did. And I think what that brings, or what I hope to bring is, is a perspective that is not tainted by your technical knowledge. The bags we're creating now are driven by your love for innovation or your love for unique design and really shaping that space. Between a piece of jewelry becoming a bag and a bag really feeling like you're wearing a piece of jewelry. And that's a different approach to design when you don't really think of the bags that have been out there, but you really look at the symbolism behind the Bulgari icons and try to bring that into a way that women can wear it and appreciate it. And so I'm very lucky to be in the position to do that. But it does say a lot about, you know, Bulgari. And it also allows me to evolve.
- [31:21]
Laura Vinroot Poole
And I know it's been wildly successful. I do know commercially, yeah, it's been very successful.
- [31:27]
Mary Catron Zhu
And, you know, it's. It brings me so much joy to see that, because I still want to believe that there's space for unique design out there. It's not about how much you advertise or the visibility, because we don't advertise within bags and accessories, and it's only sold within Bulgari boutiques. And so to really create desirability without the broad visibility that other brands have at their disposal, to me, that's the biggest. Well, the biggest compliment, really. It means we're doing something right.
- [32:08]
Laura Vinroot Poole
What did you wear to prom? I don't know if Greek high schools have.
- [32:11]
Mary Catron Zhu
We don't have prom. I don't even know. We have a graduation. We have a graduation, and you have.
- [32:16]
Laura Vinroot Poole
Parties for that and dress up and.
- [32:18]
Mary Catron Zhu
You have a party for that. And I remember exactly what I wore, but I don't remember the brand.
- [32:22]
Laura Vinroot Poole
And what did it look like, and.
- [32:24]
Mary Catron Zhu
The choice is questionable also.
- [32:26]
Laura Vinroot Poole
That's okay. We're about the same age.
- [32:29]
Mary Catron Zhu
I will just tell you that the color was pink, believe it or not.
- [32:33]
Laura Vinroot Poole
I believe it.
- [32:34]
Mary Catron Zhu
I don't think everyone has ever seen me in pink.
- [32:36]
Laura Vinroot Poole
Was it strapless?
- [32:37]
Mary Catron Zhu
It wasn't strapless. It was like a tight jersey top, almost see through, with a skirt that was in a. And then in a weird woven taffeta metallic pink. And that it had some sort of, you know, embellishment on the edge. It was very 90s.
- [32:54]
Laura Vinroot Poole
Did you shop with your mom for it?
- [32:56]
Mary Catron Zhu
I don't think my mom has ever approved of any design choice. I don't remember. And I really wish I could go back to, you know, how I used to think at the time, because I used to wear black all the time, even as a teenager. So it's not something that, you know, developed through the years. But I didn't choose black. I chose pink. So I think it's probably the only time somebody has seen me in pink.
- [33:22]
Laura Vinroot Poole
I need to find that picture. We need to find that. Yeah, I'm calling your mom.
- [33:25]
Mary Catron Zhu
Yeah, no, I don't think we want anyone to find that picture.
- [33:29]
Laura Vinroot Poole
Thank you, Mary, so much. I really, really appreciate your time.
- [33:32]
Mary Catron Zhu
Thank you so much.
- [33:35]
Laura Vinroot Poole
What We Wore is produced by Capitol and Balto Creative Media. The original song, Someone so Enchanting, was composed and performed by Brit Drop. Please follow us on Instagram hatweworepodcast for additional content and show updates. QueenCityPodcastNetwork.com.