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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. I'm Laura Vinroot Poole, and this is what we wore. Marianne McDonald is the creative director of Citizens of Humanity and our first denim designer on the podcast. She's worked with denim both as an entrepreneur starting her own collection, and also iconic brands like the Gap. Tell me where you're from, Marianne.
- [00:32]
B
Born in Los Angeles and but then grew up in Eugene, Oregon.
- [00:36]
A
How did you get to Eugene?
- [00:37]
B
You know, my dad was a professor at ucla and then he was hired at Oregon. And so they moved there when I was a toddler and felt like they could create a really nice life for my sister and I. And so we grew up there in this little kind of hippie town and where everybody dresses super casual and there's literally, like, no mention of fashion.
- [00:59]
A
What kind of professor was your dad?
- [01:01]
B
Labor law. Oh, wow. Things. I know. Exciting. Totally. And my mom, you know, she was a fundraiser for the NPR station there. So, you know, it was a town full of, like, really progressive ideas, but set in this, like, kind of bucolic setting. And my childhood was just super simple. My dad loved sailing. Um, my sister and I hated it at the time. Like, looking back, I'm like, why did we hate that? We got to relax on a boat at a lake. That sounds incredible, but I think when you'd rather be playing with, like, Cabbage Patch Kids and Barbies, like, it's not fun.
- [01:40]
A
And tell me about style. What. What's your first understanding of fashion or style?
- [01:45]
B
I think, like, growing up back then, like, it was really about. It was such a different time in terms of, like, in. In mall culture. Like, I grew up going to the mall, like, literally almost every weekend. I think my mom was, like, one of the best dressed of her peers, and so she was always a dress or something pretty. And my sister and I went along for the ride. And my dad was just sort of into, like, Scandinavian architecture and more simple things like Fair Isle sweaters and jeans. And it was that combination of, like, naturalness and femininity that I think kind of influenced my design aesthetic.
- [02:26]
A
How did you first understand that fashion could be a career path?
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B
The only kind of fashion that existed in Eugene was this. Literally, it's called, like, Saturday Market, and it was a bunch of music playing hippies selling tie dye T shirts.
- [02:40]
A
That is so awesome. That's my dream.
- [02:43]
B
Totally. That sounds fun. You know, with that is like, a backdrop. My first job, like, out of high school was working for the Gap, and that was when Gap was kind of at its zenith. And I was really shocked at how well organized and Edited. It was.
- [03:01]
A
And how it was it at your childhood?
- [03:03]
B
Yes, it was awesome. And so I really was like, oh, my gosh, this is amazing. They, you know, they teach you everything from like, this is so cheeseball. But, like, greeting people and like, doing visuals. And I felt like it was so fun, and it kind of opened my eyes to the idea of doing something in fashion. But at that time, I wasn't quite sure, like, what path that would take.
- [03:26]
A
I was talking to a young person who is living in New York and wants to get into fashion and is having a really hard time finding internships. And I said, I really think it's important just to do, like, to get a job at the Gap. I think, you know, not only the, the discipline of it, but also just working with young people and sort of just the energy of. And the momentum of it. I just. And I also said, for me, looking at resumes, if I saw that somebody worked at the Gap, I mean, mad respect like that, that shows me that you're willing to put your sleeves up and work.
- [04:00]
B
I feel like one of the things that's really incredible about working retail, too, when you're younger or just if you have an interest in fashion, is seeing the shift that takes place in people's mind as they go from browsing, just feeling like they actually need something. And that unlock is like everything in retail, because it's not something that can be boiled down to, like an algorithm or something formulaic. It's really about, like, the magic all.
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A
Coming together from the salesperson side also just starting to understand that the, like, inventory and, and, and how all of that, how you're receiving inventory, how it comes in, how. I mean, just the whole process of it. And it's stuff you never, ever consider as a consumer.
- [04:40]
B
I don't think you don't, because you don't see any of that. But it is so foundational and so important. Really grateful for that time.
- [04:49]
A
Looking back, how interesting. Okay, and so, so from that, that's a high school job.
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B
And then, yes, that's a high school job. So then you doing everything from the visuals to at the Gap to then, like, I majored in English literature of, of all things. And so I was like, I don't know how those two relate. And I pray that I can get a job after college.
- [05:10]
A
And did you go to school in Oregon or did.
- [05:12]
B
Oregon?
- [05:13]
A
Yeah. Yes.
- [05:14]
B
And then I interned, you know, in a buying office at like, the one, like, designer store there. And, you know, I was like, oh, I'm just going to become A buyer, you get to pick out clothes all day shopping, really that of the smallest fraction of what buying is. You know, especially like a store that had, I think at the time, like four different locations. So it was really like, you know, managing inventory is what it all that profit margins. And I think my biggest learning experience there was. I, my, I was, my job was to fax in orders because back then you had a fax. And it wasn't until like two weeks into my internship that I realized you actually had to fax them face up. And so all orders that I was sending in like paid down, face down.
- [06:01]
A
I love that. Oh my God, that is so funny. English major. So tell me what your professor dad and your NPR fundraising mom, what did they think about your path at the time?
- [06:16]
B
I think they were concerned. I think my dad was like, you know, I, I really, really hope that you can, you know, transform this into a career. I think like as a parent, you know, you always want the best for your child. And they knew that, you know, I had a inability to get along well with others and I was fiercely competitive. So they're like, well, we'll see what happens. And I think also like having that sort of non pressure was really, really nice too.
- [06:47]
A
Yeah. Did you know anybody, I mean any of your family friends that worked in fashion or design?
- [06:54]
B
You know, I got my first job because my like sorority sister at the time, I was a Kappa, she got her first job like she graduated like six months earlier. And so she had set me up for an interview at Guess Jeans and Design Licensing. And that was really the, at the time the only place that hired young grads and had a slew of like entry level positions. And so it was fantastic to be able to go from college to job working in fashion.
- [07:25]
A
And that was in la, Marianne?
- [07:27]
B
It was in la, yes.
- [07:28]
A
And what was that like?
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B
I mean, you know, my senior year in college, just to backtrack a little, my best friend and I were like, we need to move to la. We're getting out of Eugene. I need to work in fashion. And so we rented a U Haul and drove with our graduation money from our parents and our little selves and moved to LA and gotten a apartment above Erewhon. So we were seeing people like Billy Bob Thornton and Lauren Dern, like shopping and it was just your full on like 20 year old LA experience.
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A
That's amazing. And back then it was actually just really like a health food store. Hippie store.
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B
Totally. Yeah. Funny.
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A
Tell me about what stands out about that first job in the Licensing department of guests.
- [08:14]
B
You know, I was like, oh my gosh. I rushed through college to like sit up at a desk for this. I was honestly like a little bit disappointed. But it did open my, my eyes to design. And so I remember working with the designers and I was like, jaw dropping to me. I couldn't believe that they got paid to make cool pretty things. And so it was really my first like, like head on experience with people who are designing for a living.
- [08:42]
A
And did you have a great mentor at the time or did you? I did.
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B
And I'm so grateful. I like actually don't even know how to contact her. So I pray that one day she'll watch one of these things because I just have such like utmost gratitude to her. Her name was Laura Morgan and she was a merchandiser and her dream had always been to become a designer. And she knew that I really wanted that too after seeing these people working in design. And so she was like, Marianne, I would suggest you take classes to learn how to draw and I'm going to do everything I can to get you a job as an assistant designer. And so she like, once I signed up at Otis to for like sketching classes and fashion design, she move me into first merchandising and then to design. And it was really like so generous of her and such an incredible experience being mentored by somebody who was so thoughtful in their approach. And so from then on I stayed in design.
- [09:38]
A
Was it automatic? I mean, did it connect immediately? Did you know what you wanted to make and what was missing and kind of, yes, you had a direction without even trying?
- [09:46]
B
Totally. I feel like all my life I had always been designing the perfect outfit in my head. I just didn't realize that that was what it. I would go to stores and be like, I wish I could find like, you know, gray trousers like this or jeans that made me look like X, Y or Z. And so now like looking back, I'm like, oh, I was designing in my head before I even knew what fashion design was.
- [10:12]
A
In this role at guess, was it always denim?
- [10:16]
B
No, it's actually not denim at all. It was, it was wovens and knit tees, all of those things. And it was really about like learning how to draw on illustrator. And I remember my first drawings working as an assistant were absolutely horrendous and terrible and but people there were like really great in terms of mentorship. I think when you have those big corporate environments, sometimes like the infrastructure there alone is like the best education. Just because it's so small that you're doing everything you can really focus on, like, really building those foundational skills.
- [10:54]
A
And did you start to understand what that structure meant? Like, what every department did, what a merchandiser did? I mean, why would you. You wouldn't have known that, I guess, before.
- [11:04]
B
Totally. So, like, like, looking back, you know, I had experience, you know, on the retail floor and then in buying offices and in merchandising and design licensing. And what I didn't know at the time is that I was really putting together like a full, like 360 view of what was on in fashion. And while some people may not land their, like, dream early on, like, all of those different things will all come together to really help you in the future.
- [11:31]
A
I totally agree with that. I want to go back one little bit before we move on. Do you remember having a favorite pair of jeans? And was it from the Gap growing up?
- [11:40]
B
No, it was like my first experience with. With brand. And that was when actually guess jeans, like in 80s were around. And it was, I think it was like my. For like second grade, third summer. I was very young and I really wanted this, like, jean jacket. I was dying for a Guess, no joke. And I remember like, laying there in my bunk bed thinking about, like, I pray that I get this jean jacket. And so, like, such a passionate focus on getting something that was branded. And especially coming from a town like Eugene where brands didn't even really exist. So I feel like that was really, I think it was probably looking back, one of my parents best purchases in their lives.
- [12:27]
A
So from Guess, where did you move from there and how long were you there?
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B
So then I worked for Robert Rodriguez, and there, you know, his background was he was the creative director for Dior, and then at the time was formulating his own line and working for laundry by Shelley Siegel. Right. And so it was everything from, like, draping to learning from somebody who was really meticulous in its approach to ready to wear. And I learned about suiting and chiffons and silks and all things like that. And so I was like a little design sponge. So I did that for a little while and then ended up working for Joe's jeans back. And this is like right at the beginning of the denim sort of craze. And literally it was a craze back then because it was like people just caught on to the idea of premium denim. Yeah. And when I joined Joe's, I was hired as a ready to wear designer. And I remember, like my first day on the job, he was like, oh, I forgot to Tell you us I'll have to do denim. And I was like, okay. And I remember going to those denim fabric meetings and back then they would just show you, like raw pieces of denim. And it was literally like all blue to me. And so I kind of willy nilly about and hope for the best. But under, like working under Joe, I actually got to really understand, like, how important having a, like a distinctive point of view of how you want the body to look was when you make denim. And it's not just about, like making clothes. It's about like bringing a silhouette to life on a human. It's a lot of, like, architecture and engineering that kind of goes into it.
- [14:12]
A
Did you always try on the product?
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B
I mean, were you definitely sampler?
- [14:16]
A
Yeah, because that's, I mean, for girls especially, you know.
- [14:19]
B
Absolutely. And it's funny, like, working in design actually makes you sort of less reverent about clothing because you're like, oh, what if I cut it here or do this there? And so, yeah, it's always fun to experiment with it.
- [14:32]
A
What did you learn in those two roles?
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B
I learned that I loved the fast pacedness of it. I think there's that saying, like, you know, when you think about, like, flow and when you're like in the throes of, of really, like, working in something that you're passionate about, like, time stands still. And I remember, like running around the sample room and, you know, cajoling pattern makers to work on my stuff first. And it was just super exciting and fun and cool to be, like, absorbing it all.
- [15:03]
A
Do you mean fast paced at that level to scale, things can be produced quickly or do you mean genes happen pretty quickly that you can because turnaround is so different from zooming in?
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B
Yeah, that's a great question. And I mean fast paced by in design, like, I think every designer will, like, relate to this. You're always behind calendar on some level. Right. And so there's always a new collection that needs to go out. There's production approvals that have to happen. And so you're constantly juggling like multiple seasons and multiple products. And that kind of busyness was just so exciting to me.
- [15:41]
A
Wow. I mean, that's really interesting that your brain likes that because most people, I think, can't handle that.
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B
Yeah, I think I like, it was like something that really, like, got my blood pumping. I was like, oh, my God, I love this.
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A
I love it too. I mean, I think from the buyer side. But I also think it's interesting you say that because for me, in market, almost all the time I'm like, okay, what am I looking at? When does this arrive? And trying really hard to understand, like, what are we doing here? Where are we?
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B
Yes.
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A
I'm sure it's two steps back for you, because you're designing even, like, a year ahead.
- [16:17]
B
It's exactly the same for you as it is for me. And I think for us creatives, too, there's something that feels like you're okay with it. You're okay with not knowing which season you're looking at. You know, in that early sense, you're. Because you're. You know that it's all going to come together.
- [16:37]
A
And so how did your opportunity at the Gap come about after these two experiences?
- [16:41]
B
Right. So when I was at Joe's, I started when they were selling, like, literally, like, 500 pairs of jeans a year. And when I left there, we were doing, like, $36 million in revenue, which at the time was a lot. Wow. And Gap recruited me because they wanted to really, like, redefine, like, what 1969 denim was. And so I moved from LA to New York City and was just. It was a perfect, perfect time in my life for change and new challenges. And I love the idea of going to, like, a big corporate company.
- [17:14]
A
What was your role? What did they hire you as?
- [17:16]
B
Yes, I was a senior designer and then promoted eventually to design director for women's denim.
- [17:22]
A
I'm just. I'm really fascinated by the, one, working there as a kid and two, like, to sort of rework 1969, the whole project. Like, were you at the time obsessed about jeans? I mean, I guess you'd been at Joe's, so you probably, you know, to grow it from 500 pairs to 36 million, you probably were pretty obsessed. But were you personally obsessed? Did you only wear jeans? I mean, when you have that interview, are you wearing jeans?
- [17:48]
B
Of course, but I think I wore Joe's to the interview. But I did wear some Gap, and I think Marc Jacobs was trending at the time. So I was Marc Jacobs, but you better believe I had those outfits, like, fully planned out. Yeah, it was interesting, too, because, you know, at Gap, what you learn, or, like, at a big company like that, you learn the value of teamwork. York. And so while some people might say, like, I did this, I did that, like, I think what I probably did there was work, well, with the team, and that's everybody from, like, the sourcing partners to your factories to, you know, at the time, the creative director was Patrick Robinson, who's amazing, generous, and lovely, and So I just felt this real connection to the merchandisers. And there was this woman named Lexi who headed up our denim merchandising, and she was just, like, so focused on. On elevating the assortment too. It was really like a superhero team, I think, of people who came together at that time.
- [18:45]
A
Before you have the interview, do you go to the Gap store and sort of look at the offerings and see what's happening? Yeah. And what was your impression of where it was as compared to the heyday of when you were working there?
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B
I was like, well, the only way we can make this happen is that we've got to have some change. So I.
- [19:07]
A
So it was really clear to you, like, what. What needed to happen? Oh, really?
- [19:11]
B
How interesting at the time, like, the. In my mind, like, I was like, this stuff is not cool or not sexy, and if I'm totally blunt. And I saw that as, like, my mission, like, my job is to, you know, kind of refresh this and work with people to make that happen. So it was everything from, you know, switching fit models to upgrading denim. You know, it was really like, taking a sort of founders approach to what the denim lineup could look like and what the American public was. Was ready for.
- [19:47]
A
And was it successful?
- [19:48]
B
Yeah, it was really successful, actually. You know, I forgot my. I started there in international design and then was fairly quickly moved over to head up all of North America and. And international. And so I think, like, you know, because of that time period, too, they just really needed somebody that had experience with premium denim and kind of really, that denim as a vehicle, like, can achieve all of these, like, really important fashion moments.
- [20:17]
A
And what's the difference in designing for international versus North America? And had you. Had you already done that at Joe's? Did you understand what that. And I guess, probably at guess, you know, the difference.
- [20:28]
B
Gap was a lot more eye opening. I think, you know, every six weeks we were in Europe or Japan. So really, I got to see, like, a global perspective of what people. People were gravitating towards. And, you know, in broad strokes, you could say that, you know, the Japanese have, like, a real affinity towards or for, like, Americana and things that feel, like, layered and textured and authentic. There's also a softness and a femininity in what they gravitate towards. And whereas, like, the European market has, like, a slight. More like rock and roll, edge needs, like, a little bit of sophistication. So like, darker washes, leaner cuts, things like that.
- [21:11]
A
And then the US Is just its own beast.
- [21:14]
B
Yeah, The U. S. Is Like, a little bit more, like, West Coast. I have, like, centric. I think. I think that's why there's also so many denim factories here. There's, like, an optimism, I think, that exists in American denim that makes it uniquely, like, American.
- [21:32]
A
In saying you did North America, I omitted Canada and Mexico. Are those specifically different, too, or that you just sort of use your American model on that?
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B
Yeah, American model for both of those. Canada is a little bit more like Europe in terms of, like, a little bit more sophisticated, a little bit more refined.
- [21:49]
A
So how did you evolve as a designer there?
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B
Yeah, the thing that you learn at Gap 2 is just, like, the sheer volume of product that you need to create to fill stores around the world. It's a lot. I remember our SKU count would be, like, something insane, like, 200 SKUs per season. And so you really, you know, with that, you get to experiment a lot, because that's a whole lot of denim and casual product. So it was really, like, maximizing, like, volume, kind of seeing what that fashion expression could be.
- [22:21]
A
What was your biggest surprise or your. Your most successful item that you created?
- [22:27]
B
I think at that time, it was, like, the boot cut.
- [22:29]
A
Oh, wow.
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B
Yeah, I know. That'll date you, right?
- [22:32]
A
No, but I mean, that's so awesome. And I mean, it's such a. It really changed the direction of what people were wearing.
- [22:38]
B
Yeah, it was cool. I mean, they. And they really supported it, too, with ad campaigns at the time, and, you know, like, a really big spend on that to make sure that, like, the reach was really palpable.
- [22:49]
A
When you think of something like that, do you have to, like, say, Patrick, like, are you on board with this? I think this could be really cool. It could be, like, how involved in that part of it are you?
- [22:58]
B
Right. You know, it was working, like, at the time we were working, I think, with. With Trey, Laird.
- [23:02]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [23:03]
B
Laird and partners. And so it was, you know, in Patrick's office, working with Trey and Patrick and, like, making sure that the casting of the models were, like, really the top models of the time. And. And I think with that, too, like, models bring such a level of both familiarity and aspiration to it. And so it was like, all these things combined, like, upgraded product, like, really compelling storytelling, all of that.
- [23:30]
A
Is there ever a moment in that process, in that early part of the process when you're perfecting, I guess, the artistic part, but also when you're producing hundreds of millions of pairs of jeans that you freak out and say, like, maybe this is not going to work, or maybe People aren't going to like this for sure.
- [23:48]
B
Yeah. You pray. Yeah. I think, like, you're like, I hope it's good. We think it's good.
- [23:53]
A
I hope you think it's good.
- [23:55]
B
So there's definitely that sort of wait and see. But I think, like, deep down, you know, if a product's going to work.
- [24:03]
A
In my part of the business, I'm always like, people just want to be pretty. And then, like, it's just like. So if the boot cut will make you feel that way and look that way, then it's a success for sure.
- [24:15]
B
Yeah, people. Exactly. People want to be a sexier, hotter version of themselves, and that will. That's really what will make them say, I need this pair of jeans.
- [24:26]
A
And jeans are so interesting because, I mean, they're. I mean, the Gap. What are they, a hundred bucks? I mean, like, or at that point, probably around them.
- [24:33]
B
Yeah. Like, I think they were, like, 70 back then.
- [24:35]
A
Yeah. So it's, like, so accessible and.
- [24:38]
B
Accessible. Yeah.
- [24:39]
A
You can really change the world with a pair of jeans, I would imagine.
- [24:43]
B
Totally good. And. And it's funny, too. Like, with denim, it's much, like, it's super polarizing, much like swimwear and. And it's unique in the sense of, like, people can use denim to find themselves or find how they want to look. Like, let's say you, like, put on a pair of bad jeans, and you're like, not only do you feel bad, you're like, that's not me.
- [25:06]
A
Yeah.
- [25:06]
B
And when you put on a pair of jeans, that makes you feel incredible. You're like, that's me. And you, like, understand, like, it's. When you're. You're, like, mind aligns with, like, the physicality of fashion. And I feel like there's something really unique about denim being able to do.
- [25:23]
A
That when I'm in people's closets. That's the thing that's really striking to me is that denim can date you faster than anything in your wardrobe, and it's the cheapest way to. I mean, you can change it really pretty easily.
- [25:36]
B
And you can wear the same pair of jeans every week. Like, you can't really. Like, you buy a special top. You're maybe wearing it like, four times a season. But those jeans, you can bring those out every single week. So there's such great value and. And style in a pair of jeans.
- [25:51]
A
Are you a vintage collector?
- [25:53]
B
I'm actually not. I think I'm the only denim designer on earth that is not a vintage collector. I'm almost embarrassed to say I'm appreciate vintage a ton. Like, I think it adds, like, spirit and there's things that you can learn about denim. But I feel like my sort of. Of non affinity for vintage is what makes me probably a better denim designer. I feel like vintage doesn't check all the boxes in terms of being able to transform it to, like, what you want it to be. And so, like, sure, you can now, like, alter things and like, that perfect pair. But I prefer, like, I think non vintage denim. I love that.
- [26:39]
A
So. So how long were you at the Gap before you started to think about launching your own collection? And what were the signs?
- [26:45]
B
Yeah, there for five years. You know, during that time, I met my husband in New York City, who's also from Eugene, Oregon, and he was.
- [26:54]
A
No way. That's so weird.
- [26:56]
B
So wild, right?
- [26:57]
A
Yes.
- [26:59]
B
And yes. We ended up sitting across from one another at an Oregon alumni game. Like, that was televised. And at the time, those Chloe Paddington bags were trending, so I was carrying one of those.
- [27:13]
A
So you had. So your shoulder was broken? Basically, yeah, my shoulder was broken.
- [27:17]
B
And as I turned to, like, get up to leave because I was going to somewhere else to see some friends, I knocked over a beer on the person sitting next to Kobe and of course didn't see it and said goodbye to Kobe. And I meant to kiss him on the cheek, but accidentally kissed him on the mouth. And so I was, like, flustered and embarrassed and quickly got out of there. And the person sitting next to him with the beer spilled on her, she was not too happy. Thankfully, Kobe tried to gloss things over and was like, I'm sure she didn't mean it.
- [27:50]
A
I love that.
- [27:51]
B
Yeah.
- [27:52]
A
You got together with him and y' all decided to move back west?
- [27:56]
B
Yeah, we stayed in New York for, like, years. Had had a baby there, and then we were like, I was traveling, like, I was concepting. By this time, I had left Gab and was concepting Maguire, which is my company at the time, and was working on that while having babies. And so it was a bit stressful and chaotic having, like, crying babies and.
- [28:21]
A
Yep.
- [28:23]
B
But I feel like the design portion, too, is also what kept me, like, inspired and grounded. It was something that's so intrinsic in my DNA to, like, think about clothing, which sounds so weird, but I just loved it.
- [28:37]
A
So what was the vision for the company? What did you see that was missing in the market that you wanted, Right. To create?
- [28:42]
B
I love the idea of exploring, like, the idea of utility as it meets luxury. And so McGuire was really, like, you know, adding this feminine edge to this, like, authentic utility story. And so with that, you know, I was flying, like, every week to la. And my son, who was like, three, I think at the time, my oldest one, he was like, mommy, when can we live together again?
- [29:09]
A
Oh, my God.
- [29:09]
B
My goodness. He doesn't think we live together.
- [29:13]
A
I heard things like that. It's awful.
- [29:16]
B
And so my husband's contract in finance was ending at the time, and I was like, we're moving to la. So we moved to la, and we've been here ever since.
- [29:29]
A
How did you know who the right partners were to start McGuire.
- [29:33]
B
Right. You know, I actually didn't. I mean, there's so much you learn as an entrepreneur. I mean, looking back, some of the choices we made, like, like, oh, my gosh, I was just way too young and naive.
- [29:44]
A
Yeah.
- [29:45]
B
And so I think, you know, my husband's background in finance really helped, like, sort of square things away. He's highly organized and just an incredible communicator as well. And so having him as my partner, we just kind of naively, I guess, hope for the best instead about raising money, putting in our own capital into building a company. Company from the ground up.
- [30:10]
A
What was your biggest area of growth as a person? Starting this company with. Also with little people at home and all of that.
- [30:18]
B
At the time, it was really about, like, learning the finance behind fashion. That was, like, the biggest unlock and everything from, you know, it's like, as a business owner, like, understanding cash flow, too. Like the time, like, you go from purchasing the fabric to when it actually hits stores to when you're actually getting paid. Goodman or Neiman Marcus, whoever. So that time was something we really didn't account for on the scale that it was. And so that was super, super challenging.
- [30:48]
A
How long did the brand exist?
- [30:51]
B
Yeah, we. For about, like, six years. Eventually we got to the point where we were like, we have to sell this. And so we were just losing too much money. And from a personal and professional standpoint, we were like, okay, time to close up shop. And, you know, the learning curve was so steep. And, you know, hindsight is 20 20, but we worked with, like, some really incredible, incredible people along the way. And the experience is really transformational from both, like, a professional and creative standpoint.
- [31:23]
A
What are you most proud of from that experience?
- [31:26]
B
I think just having the balls to go do it.
- [31:28]
A
Yeah, totally. When you sold it, how many children did you have at that point? Point.
- [31:34]
B
And by then I had four. So Lily was a baby and I know. So I had two. Well, which I don't think, like, in retrospect, I wouldn't recommend, like, having multiple children while, like, starting a business. Starting a business? Yeah. There's just so many competing, like, attention, needing things that are, like, super, super demanding.
- [31:56]
A
So did you take a break after selling it for a little bit?
- [31:59]
B
I think took a couple weeks.
- [32:01]
A
I was gonna say a month. Right. Okay.
- [32:03]
B
I know I got really lucky that Amy, my CEO, reached out to me, and I had met her, like, you know, at, I think it was coterie in New York City. She had stopped by, like, at the McGuire booth and introduced herself as a fan of the brand, and she was just super lovely. So when she reached out to have breakfast with her and Gary, one of the original founders of Citizens, I thought that that sounded like an amazing opportunity, so I was super excited.
- [32:34]
A
And did you know about the brand? I mean, had you. Had you tried it on?
- [32:38]
B
Yes. I feel like Citizens was always sort of my favorite in terms of, like, their logo, like, what they stood for in terms of authenticity and fit was definitely, like, completely aligned with who I felt like I was as a designer.
- [32:58]
A
And did you come in straight as creative director?
- [33:01]
B
Yes.
- [33:02]
A
And what did that look like?
- [33:05]
B
So, you know, anytime you go from being an entrepreneur to working again in, like, a corporate environment, there's always an adjustment. But I feel like Amy has this unique ability to, like, really inspire and bring out the best in her team. And so I felt like, like, in a lot of ways, it reminded me of, like, working at a grownup version of Maguire. And so it was sort of like exactly what I had envisioned in my mind, only, like, 10 steps ahead.
- [33:35]
A
Right.
- [33:35]
B
And it was in that way, it was a really nice segue.
- [33:38]
A
And what does your day to day look like?
- [33:40]
B
Usually I start my mornings with, like, looking at inspiration stuff, whether that's, like, books, because I like to, like, at least on my drive to work, have that sort of creative juices, like, flowing. So I'll start my day with creative images, researchers or whatever, and then. And then head to the office, where I'm usually listening to some sort of, you know, book on tape or whatever on the way there. So actually kind of do, like, the drive. And when I'm there, we start with fittings and we fit usually, like, new season stuff and production stuff, and then move on to working with the team on everything from color approvals to new concepts, fabric meetings, all of that.
- [34:24]
A
Wow. Do you enjoy that? I mean, do you enjoy this role more than you did? Well, I'm thinking your role at McGuire was every role.
- [34:34]
B
Yeah, it Was every role. They're so different. I think that at this stage in my life, I mean, I have an appreciation for both. I love the problem solving, finance side of fashion. I love the creative part too. So. And like, I think, think working with the deadlines that we have and with how much product we're managing, there's so much of a people component of what you do at Citizens that I think is really inspiring.
- [35:05]
A
What's the hardest part of leading a creative team?
- [35:08]
B
And maybe not hardest, but, like, what I like to focus on is, you know, like, just so things don't get stale, is okay. Knowing what we. Because each season there's, like, a new challenge, Whether it's, you know, labor, like, not moving fast enough or fabric delays or some new fabric that you're super excited about is going to come in at the 11th hour. So there's always different things, but I love seeing how the team's evolving to become better troubleshooters and problem solvers and working together to really, like, help one another, whether it's the person who handles product development for men's, like, when she's a little bit slow helping out the women's team. And so I think that that's really cool and fun to be able to lead in that way.
- [35:56]
A
How many people on the creative team?
- [35:59]
B
On the creative team, there's three of us. But I also, I don't want to discount, like, our team of product developers because they are endlessly creative and how they participate in wash development and color development. So, like, I'd say three on the sort of more immediate side, but I think it's team of 10.
- [36:20]
A
Do you have, like, group outings? Like, do you go see a movie together? Things like that?
- [36:26]
B
Yeah, a lot of times we won't see it together, but we'll, you know, we'll say, oh, we should check out this movie or whatever it is, or. And then we do do vintage shopping together.
- [36:36]
A
Oh, that's awesome.
- [36:37]
B
Has some really great vintage shops, especially, like, on La Brea. Everything from, like, high end to, you know, those great T shirts that come in beautiful colors. So to do vintage as much as possible.
- [36:51]
A
I didn't realize how young my team was until we had Saint Laurent. Came out with a collection that was all this is several seasons ago, but it was all kind of Belle du Jour, the Catherine Deneuve movie. And I was saying, like, the. The girls were kind of like, I don't really get it. Like, I'm not really feeling this collection. I was like, oh, no, it's all Belle du jour. And they were like, I don't know what you're talking about. And so I required everybody to watch it, and I think they were really into to it, but it didn't. It made me realize that, I mean, they're in their 20s. Like, they had zero reference.
- [37:22]
B
I so agree. Especially, you know, with Y2K styling even coming.
- [37:27]
A
Yes.
- [37:27]
B
On the scene, like, some of our design team with a toddler, then, you know, so they're like, I don't know. It's due to me.
- [37:36]
A
And have you ever done any references of your. Of your gap time? Your teenage gap time time?
- [37:43]
B
Yeah, you know, it's funny, like, my teenage gap time, that's when, like, a vests were trending. Yeah. Like, vest and, like, wide leg pants, you know, gingham shirts and, like, that whole peasant blousey thing. I feel like that's actually, like, more kind of where we're headed to.
- [38:00]
A
So tell me, with four children, I had read that you. You find 20 minutes a day to meditate, which is shocking to me. How do you do that?
- [38:09]
B
Well, I had to wake up before them, and I think they like it, too, because if, like, what usually, like, one of the little ones will be up with me too, and they'll, like, sit next to me, you know, maybe on their iPad, maybe watching YouTube, admittedly, but they, I think, notice that it's peaceful. And my daughter told me that when she was in the car on a road trip, she's like, mommy. She was like, I turn on the meditation app, like, sometimes when we're driving, and I was like, oh, I love that. So I feel like, you know, they understand that that's sort of a nice moment of calm and peace that can kind of set you up well for the day.
- [38:45]
A
I love that. And tell me, what about motherhood informs who you've become as a designer?
- [38:51]
B
I actually. I feel like I have an insider peek at kind of what's coming down the pipeline. You know, my youngest is my daughter, who's loves fashion but is still, like, in that younger stage. And my oldest son is 15, and so. And he has kind of, like a, you know, bigger build. And so you really see, like, kind of where like, young menswear is going, like, from a firsthand perspective. And then with women, especially, like, young moms, you really see the importance of, like, looking and feeling your best and how many, like, events we have to go to. Whether it's, you know, you're meeting other classmates, parents, or a friend out for cocktails. There's fun fundraising Things. So there's just like, endless events that you need to dress for. And being based in California, a lot of them are more casual based. And so you need clothing that can kind of cross those boundaries.
- [39:45]
A
What do you hope your legacy will be in the denim industry?
- [39:48]
B
I think the thing I'm most excited about is us growing, like, regenerative cotton. When you think about, like, fashion's impact on the world and the environment, like, being able to really be a pioneer in this realm is so meaningful to me because it not only means regenerative agriculture, but just a commitment to, like, going after innovation in ways that can help the world and our communities. So that I think is. Is really, like, the thing that I'm.
- [40:21]
A
Most excited about and so important to be with a brand that has the backing to be able to do that. I mean, it would be so hard to do with McGuire, you know, on.
- [40:30]
B
Your own, and absolutely would have been impossible. And one of the things that I really appreciate about citizens, too, is, like, when we set out to be to do this, it wasn't with the intention of keeping it just for ourselves. It was really about working with our fabric suppliers so they could bring it to other companies as well.
- [40:47]
A
Yeah.
- [40:48]
B
And so I think with our first year, we grew, like, half a million pounds of cotton, and now we're in, like, multiple millions of pounds every. And. And seeing these farmers go from being skeptical about the idea of transforming their land to really embracing it as a way that means, like, more prosperity for both their family farms and for their workers is. Is so cool.
- [41:14]
A
Is there anything that I haven't asked that feels important to share for people.
- [41:17]
B
Who are even thinking about fashion? I love that it's an opportunity. Like, if you're obsessed with learning things, it is, like, one of the most perfect careers.
- [41:28]
A
Totally agree with that.
- [41:29]
B
Like, the amount of, like, the world you can see, the people you encounter, the daily problem solving, and the fact that you're, in some regards, like, your work should reflect, like, the culture around you means it's always evolving, and I love that.
- [41:52]
A
What did you wear to the prom?
- [41:54]
B
Oh, my God.
- [41:55]
A
Jean Oregon I have to know.
- [41:58]
B
Okay, this is so embarrassing. And we're not going to be showing pictures of it, but I'm going to need those. Wore a cream dress, and unfortunately I got my hair done. And so the cream dress was like a sheath dress with, like, a V back, and it was like laundry by Shelly Seagull, which at the time was like, a really great brand.
- [42:18]
A
Yeah.
- [42:18]
B
My hair was. Was unfortunately in a beehive. And it wasn't meant to be in a beehive. It was just that the person doing my hair put it into a beehive. And back when everybody had like.
- [42:29]
A
I think that's a universal problem for having.
- [42:32]
B
I think I, like, unintentionally looked a little bit more like the Bride of Frankenstein rather than B52s. Yes, it was terrible. Terrible. I actually feel more sorry for my prom date because he was probably like, what's happening?
- [42:47]
A
Do you remember other accessories? Did you have jewelry or shoes or bag?
- [42:52]
B
You know, back then it was. I don't think I had any of those. Or maybe I was wearing, like, platform shoes.
- [42:58]
A
Right?
- [42:59]
B
But, like, red lipstick and, like, pale faces were like, about look du jour. It's so not cute and so unnatural looking.
- [43:07]
A
Did you buy the Shelly Siegel dress at the mall?
- [43:09]
B
I bought it at a little boutique and I think the year before prom I wore this little black dress. And again, terrible makeup, but lots of fun memories. I think my friends and I snuck vodka into prom in little clinique, like, toner bottles.
- [43:27]
A
Nice. That's a good move.
- [43:29]
B
Pretty clever. Yeah. Really clever. Really clever.
- [43:32]
A
Good work there. Thank you, Marian, so much. I've loved talking to you and learning more about what you do.
- [43:38]
B
Oh, thank you so much. You take care.
- [43:42]
A
What We Wore is produced by Capitol and Balto Creative Media. The original song Someone so Enchanting was composed and performed by Britt Drazda. Please follow us on Instagram hatweworepodcast for additional content and show updates. QueenCityPodcastNetwork.com.