Podcast Summary: "Butter vs Margarine: What's Better for You?"
Podcast: What's That Rash? (ABC News)
Date: October 7, 2025
Hosts: Belinda Smith & Norman Swan
Episode Focus: Exploring the long-debated topic of which is healthier: butter or margarine.
Main Theme & Purpose
This episode tackles the perennial health question: Which is better for you – butter or margarine? Hosts Belinda Smith and Norman Swan dive into the historical, nutritional, and health science around these spreads, busting myths, sifting through decades of conflicting advice, and distilling what matters most for your arteries, cholesterol, and overall well-being.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Personal Histories With Butter and Margarine (01:10 - 01:40)
- Norman Swan grew up with margarine due to cost—“we didn't have much money when I was growing up, so we mostly had margarine rather than butter.” (01:15)
- Belinda Smith’s family chose margarine for health reasons, especially cholesterol fears.
- Social perceptions and class implications of margarine are referenced via "Matilda" by Roald Dahl.
2. What Are Butter and Margarine? (02:30 - 03:09)
- Butter: Ancient, made by churning cream from cow’s milk (approx. 88% saturated fat). “Takes about 20 liters of whole milk to produce 1 kilo of butter.” (02:32)
- Margarine: “The original ultra-processed food.” Initially made from beef tallow, now mostly from vegetable oils. (02:56)
3. Origins & History (03:11 - 07:28)
- Butter: Origin unclear; may have originated from mare's milk on horseback (Mongols or nomads). The term ‘butter’ is linked to the cow in its etymology.
- Margarine: Invented during a butter shortage in 19th-century France by Hippolyte Mège-Mouriès for the French Navy. Named for the pearly color, “margarites” (pearl in Greek).
- Market Wars: US butter industry fought margarine’s rise, including color bans—“they wanted them to have to color it some unsightly color... should be dyed pink.” (06:33)
- Inelegant workarounds: Selling margarine with a DIY yellow dye pack.
- Many butters are naturally white depending on the cow’s diet; both spreads were sometimes artificially colored.
4. Margarine and Fat Chemistry (07:57 - 09:11)
- Solid Spreads & Processing: Creating margarine from oils required “a fair bit of chemical engineering”—not originally healthier than butter.
- Trans Fats: Industrial hydrogenation created trans fats, which are “extremely toxic to the arteries, causing atherosclerosis, which is the disease that causes heart attacks and strokes.” (08:07 - 08:50)
- Natural vs. Industrial Trans Fats: Butter contains natural trans fats; margarine formerly had high levels of artificial trans fats now mostly removed.
5. Health Effects: Butter vs. Modern Margarine (09:26 - 12:41)
- Butter: Mostly saturated fat. Surprising research: “most [studies] do not convincingly show a risk from whole fat dairy products, which would include butter.” (10:13)
- The “dairy paradox”: Saturated fat from dairy behaves differently than from red meat—may be “something in whole dairy which mitigates the effect of saturated fat.” (10:49)
- Modest butter intake (e.g., on toast) is “unlikely to affect your [bad] cholesterol to any significant extent.” (11:37)
- Margarine: Modern formulations use polyunsaturated fats (PUFAs), which “do reduce your cholesterol.” (12:03)
- Special cholesterol-lowering margarines contain plant sterols ("phytosterols"), shown to lower LDL cholesterol.
6. Bottom Line: Comparative Health Impact (12:41 - 13:19)
- Butter: “Neutral” if used modestly—“The evidence would suggest you're not doing yourself any harm.” (17:41)
- Margarine (Polyunsaturated, Non-trans): “Probably good for you” if you need to reduce cholesterol, especially with phytosterols included.
- Caveat: If your cholesterol is normal and intake of butter/margarine is low, the choice likely doesn’t matter much.
7. Other Health Considerations (13:32 - 15:07)
- Both are energy-dense fats—overconsumption can contribute to weight gain, type 2 diabetes, some cancers.
- Greater health impact comes from the overall dietary pattern (e.g., Mediterranean diet) more than from the butter vs. margarine debate.
8. Diet Pattern vs. Single Food Focus (14:19 - 16:26)
- Belinda Smith: “The small changes that you might be getting from butter versus margarine really kind of get lost in the noise of broadly healthy or broadly unhealthy diet.” (15:02)
- Norman Swan: Only a key issue if cholesterol lowering is necessary—then, “spreading [bread] with phytosterol margarine… is going to reduce your cholesterol further than a Mediterranean diet.” (15:46)
9. Recent Shifts Back To Butter and Misconceptions (16:26 - 17:27)
- Butter consumption rising for cultural (“natural”) reasons and diet trends (e.g., bulletproof coffee).
- Some nutritionists claim saturated fat is healthy—Norman: “That's misleading.” (16:59)
10. Final Advice (17:37 - 18:13)
- Norman’s Guidance: “If you love butter and you're taking it modestly… then stick with it.”
- For cholesterol lowering: “polyunsaturated margarine, particularly one with phytosterols is the way to go, but not necessarily instead of medications.”
- Medical decisions about cholesterol should involve your doctor.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “Humans really will eat almost anything if they're hungry enough.” – Belinda Smith (04:05)
- “Trans fats are extremely toxic to the arteries, causing atherosclerosis…you do not want to be eating any trans fats at all…” – Norman Swan (08:45)
- “There's a paradox that it looks as though saturated fat in dairy products does not seem to have the same adverse effects on your arteries.” – Norman Swan (10:49)
- “Polyunsaturated margarines…are probably good for you. Butter is neutral.” – Norman Swan (12:34)
- “The small changes that you might be getting from butter versus margarine really kind of get lost in the noise of broadly healthy or broadly unhealthy diet.” – Belinda Smith (15:02)
- “If you love butter and you're taking it modestly and it's mainly for your toast in the morning… then stick with it. The evidence would suggest you're not doing yourself any harm.” – Norman Swan (17:41)
Timeline of Key Segments
| Timestamp | Topic | |:-------------:|:------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:10–01:40 | Hosts’ personal histories with butter & margarine | | 02:30–03:09 | Definition and composition of butter & margarine | | 03:11–07:28 | Origins & industrial history of both spreads | | 07:57–09:11 | Chemistry of margarine & dangers of trans fats | | 09:26–12:41 | Head-to-head health effects; butter's “dairy paradox” | | 12:41–13:19 | Comparative verdict: when margarine is “better” | | 13:32–15:07 | Calories, weight gain, and broader dietary concerns | | 14:19–16:26 | Mediterranean diet context; focus on dietary patterns | | 16:26–17:27 | Recent butter comeback and myths about saturated fat | | 17:37–18:13 | Final Q&A wrap-up and practical take-home advice |
Tone & Style
The hosts offer a warm, conversational, and lightly humorous tone, balancing science with anecdotes and social context. Their banter and shared experience add approachability to complex nutrition science, and they repeatedly urge listeners not to become preoccupied with single foods, but instead to focus on whole diet quality and individual health goals.
Summary Verdict
- Margarine (with polyunsaturated fats/phytosterols): Better if you need to lower cholesterol.
- Butter: Fine in moderation, especially if your cholesterol is not high.
- Neither is “bad” in small amounts; the key is overall diet and health context.
- Beware of old-style margarines (with trans fats) and claims that saturated fat is healthy.
- Focus on a balanced, whole-food diet rather than obsessing over specific spreads.
Listener takeaway? Unless your health situation demands cholesterol lowering, don’t stress over choosing between butter and margarine. Use what you enjoy, modestly, and prioritize a balanced, minimally processed diet. For cholesterol concerns, consult a doctor, and consider phytosterol margarines as a supplement—not replacement—for medical advice.