Why do some people pee more often?

Summary

Podcast Summary: What's That Rash?

Episode: Why do some people pee more often?
Date: December 23, 2025
Host: ABC News
Guest Expert: Norman Swan

---

Overview

This episode of "What's That Rash?" explores why some people need to pee more often, what controls bladder function, and whether it's possible—and safe—to train yourself to urinate less frequently. Host and guest Dr. Norman Swan answer listener questions about nighttime urination, bladder training, pelvic floor exercises (including Kegels), misconceptions about "holding on," and the evidence for herbal supplements.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Bladder Basics & Nighttime Urination

• Listener question: Christine is bothered by needing to get up twice a night to urinate while camping, though at home she can sleep through. She has changed her habits and asks about products to help pee less (03:40).
• Two main control points:
  • Bladder Volume: How much urine your bladder can physically hold.
  • "Holding" Mechanism: Your ability to delay urinating by engaging pelvic floor muscles.
• Physiological explanation: Kidneys filter blood to make urine, which collects in the bladder. Normally, a hormone (antidiuretic hormone) reduces urine production at night (05:35–06:17).

Anatomy and Bladder "Alarms"

• The Trigone: A triangular area inside the bladder, responsible for sending urgent signals to the brain to urinate. In people with frequent urges, the trigone can be overactive—signaling when the bladder isn't full (06:17–07:18).
• Sphincters & Pelvic Floor: Critical for "holding on," especially after childbirth or with age, which weakens these supports and can lead to incontinence (07:18–08:27).

Kegel Exercises and Pelvic Floor Training

• What are you lifting?
  • Kegel exercises strengthen the "pelvic hammock" (muscles and ligaments supporting the bladder and other pelvic structures), not just the sphincter (08:27–08:56).
• Why do them?
  • Both to prevent incontinence and, over time, to improve bladder control.
  • Noted for treating stress incontinence post-birth and as everyone ages.
• Notable quote:
  • "It's essentially gym for the pelvis, gymnasium for the pelvis, trying to strengthen all that and restore function." – Norman, 08:56

Bladder Training: Can you teach yourself to pee less?

• Yes, but...
  • This means urinating less frequently, not necessarily producing less urine overall.
  • Continence nurses can teach "bladder training" by gradually delaying urination, which retrains the trigone to signal at a higher bladder volume (13:45–14:59).
• Holding on is NOT automatically bad:
  • Contrary to some beliefs, incrementally holding on longer is not bad for your bladder or kidneys—as long as there are no underlying obstructions or infections.
• Notable quote:
  • "If you hold on, you can progressively train your bladder to hold more urine and you're not going to cause kidney failure by doing that. And that's the core process." – Norman, 13:47

When to See a Doctor

• Immediate checkup needed if: You suddenly start needing to urinate more often, especially overnight, and it’s a change from your normal pattern.
• Possible causes: Kidney problems, infections, early diabetes, or for men, prostate issues (such as incomplete emptying/04:17).
• Notable quote:
  • "It's not normal to be from having a normal bladder function to peeing a lot, and you need to get that checked out in case it's a sign of something going wrong." – Norman, 04:50

Devices & Supplements for "Peeing Less"

• Biofeedback and Devices:
  • There are pelvic floor training devices and biofeedback mechanisms, often used post-birth or for incontinence (11:08–11:39).
  • Example: Brian Johnson's use of an electromagnetic pelvic floor machine to improve nighttime bladder control (09:16).
• Supplements:
  • Some use herbal products, e.g. pumpkin seed, often marketed toward men for prostate health.
  • Evidence is limited; no known effective dosage; likely harmless but results are uncertain (11:57–12:25).

UTI and Holding Urine

• Is holding on risky for infections?
  • Normal, incremental holding is not associated with a higher risk of urinary tract infection if you empty your bladder soon after (15:10–15:28).

Gender Differences & Aging

• After childbirth and with age:
  • Pelvic support is weakened, so both men and women can experience more bladder issues over time (07:26–08:27).
• Prostate issues in men:
  • Enlargement can lead to weaker stream, residual urine, and more frequent urges.

---

Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• On the oddity of Kegels:
  • "Do I shut my eyes and think of a sandy beach somewhere?" – Norman, joking about meditation with Kegels, 01:17
• On male obsession with pee stream strength:
  • "Why do men care so much about how far they can pee?" — Host
  • "That's the other side of an enlarged prostate... strength of your stream drops." — Norman, 10:37
• On Kegel exercises:
  • "It's essentially gym for the pelvis, gymnasium for the pelvis, trying to strengthen all that and restore function." — Norman, 08:56

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Kegel Exercise Demonstration: 01:05–02:19
• Main Listener Questions Introduced: 02:40–03:50
• Why Frequent Urination Needs a Checkup: 03:50–04:50
• Bladder Anatomy & Trigone Explanation: 05:35–07:18
• Pelvic Floor Weakness & Aging: 07:26–08:27
• Benefit of Kegel/Pelvic Training: 08:27–08:56
• Supplements and Products: 11:39–12:25
• Bladder Training – How it Works: 13:45–14:59
• UTI Risk with Holding On: 15:10–15:28
• Summary & Advice: 15:28–16:08

---

Bottom Line / Takeaways

• Seek medical advice if:
  • You have a new increase in urination, especially at night.
• Bladder training can work:
  • Gradually holding on longer and regular pelvic floor (Kegel) exercises can help you go less often.
• Supplements aren’t a proven solution:
  • Some are harmless, but evidence is limited.
• Pelvic floor strengthening benefits everyone:
  • Not just postpartum women or the elderly.
• Don’t worry about “holding on” in moderation:
  • It’s not harmful if done gradually and not caused by an underlying problem.

---

For more health questions, listeners are encouraged to email the show.

Transcript

[Marshall's Advertiser]

Marshall's buyers are hustling hard to get amazing new gifts into stores right up to the last minute. Like a designer perfume for that friend who never RSVP'd wishlist topping toys for her kids who came too. Belgian chocolates for the neighbor. A cozy scarf for your boss. And a wool jacket for your husband that you definitely did not. Almost forget Marshalls. We get the deals, you get the good stuff. Even at the last minute. Find a Marshall's near you.

[Podcast Host]

ABC Listen, podcasts, radio, news, music, and more.

[Narrator/Promoter]

You're the Prime Minister. What's your first move? Make Australia a green energy superpower. Fix the housing crisis. Treat mental health as a national priority. The Economy Stupid is talking about what Australia could become the if we had the courage to choose it. Search for the Economy Stupid and look out for choose youe Own Australia. Find it wherever you get your podcasts and the ABC Listen app.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, Norman, are you ready to perform today's exercises?

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

Yeah, I'm sitting down here in the studio.

[Podcast Host]

Yep, sitting down's perfect. I'm just. Feet on the floor, a nice straight back.

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

Yeah. Do I shut my eyes and think of a sandy beach somewhere?

[Podcast Host]

Sure, if that makes you feel better, that's totally fine. Okay, now what I want you to do is just pretend that you need to stop weeing for a moment. Just lift. What? That muscle. Just lift that muscle. Hold it for five and then let it go again. Don't let it go too far.

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

Okay? Right. Okay.

[Podcast Host]

And then lifting again and squeezing.

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

Yep.

[Podcast Host]

And you can release again. Again. Please don't wet the chair of the recording studio in which you are.

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

So this is a cakewall you're getting me to do.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you familiar? Obviously you are.

[Narrator/Promoter]

Yeah.

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

The other one is that you sort of try and pull your. If you've got kids in the car, you know, just go with this for the moment, but, you know. Or put their hands. You actually try and pull your rectum up into your pelvis and hold it for 10. That's the other way of doing it.

[Podcast Host]

This is why doctors invented medical terms for body parts, because. So you can see.

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

Well, it's a bit different for blokes than for women. Slightly different from how you do the Kegel.

[Podcast Host]

I wouldn't know.

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

Well, you should know. You were asking me to do it. You could have caused me harm here. Permanent harm.

[Podcast Host]

I'm not a trained professional. I think it's important for people to know that. But I do know a thing or two about Kegels, and we're gonna get into it a bit more in what's that? Rash?

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

Which is the podcast where we answer the health questions that everybody's asking.

[Podcast Host]

And Norman, the reason we're talking about Kegel exercises today is because multiple people have written in asking us effectively, can you train yourself to pee less? Christine writes, hello, question solvers. I'm travelling Australia at the moment and since getting on the road, I have been needing to rise at least twice a night to go to the loo. Christine says I could sleep seven hours straight at home, so it's a bit of a nuisance having to crawl from my tent and navigate the campground to the toilets every night. Christine has limited her fluid intake to zero after 5pm I've stayed up till late, sometimes emptying the bladder before bed. I don't drink alcohol, only water, milk and decaf tea. Christine said that she's seen ads for products promising to help help you pee less and is wondering if these.

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

So are these corks or are they.

[Podcast Host]

I don't know. I think they're like a herbal product. We might get into it later. In a similar vein, Kerry says, my daughter came home from school saying she'd learnt that it's bad to hold on rather than go to the toilet whenever you feel like going. Apparently it wears out the muscles. Kerry always thought holding on strengthened the muscles, which is correct. A lot of bladder related questions today.

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

Yeah. So word of warning here. If you're getting up a lot during. I mean, obviously there's the circumstance you're out camping, it's cold weather and what have you, and you might have changed your diet a little bit, but if you're getting up a lot to pass water and you haven't in the past, you need to see a GP to get sorted out. There could be a kidney problem there, it could be an infection, it could be early signs of diabetes, and in.

[Podcast Host]

Men it could be early signs of prostate disease.

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

Yes. Because what happens with the prostate is you get an obstruction there and when you pass water, the bladder doesn't actually fully empty, so there's still urine left in the bladder. And what urologists call this is the encore. So you go to the toilet, you pass water, you leave the bathroom, or you're still in the bathroom and you feel the need to pass water again and you have another go. Bottom line here is it's not normal to be from having a normal bladder function to peeing a lot, and you need to get that checked out in case it's a sign of something going wrong.

[Podcast Host]

As always, if something new's happening that isn't nice. It's good to get it checked out.

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

Yeah. But let's assume there's an issue here, which is you can't pass the toilet without going. That you've just got what seems to be a small bladder capacity. And can you train yourself to pee less? And then there's this notion that holding on is bad for you.

[Podcast Host]

There's sort of two things here, Right. Like there's the volume of the bladder as one part of the apparatus, and then there's the sort of holding or not being able to hold mechanism at the other end. And actually maybe a little bit of an anatomy lesson would be good here. I do have some feedback to the people who named the urinary system two ureters and a urethra. I feel like we could have diversified the names for these a little bit more.

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

Yeah. Starts in the kidneys, which have more than one function, but effectively they sieve your blood and blood goes into the kidneys and urine comes out. And urine tends to come out and not quite in a steady stream 24 hours a day, because you've got a hormone that's produced in the brain, it's called antidiuretic hormone, and it goes up at night to stop your kidneys or reduce the amount of fluid that your kidneys are producing.

[Podcast Host]

We talked about it. We talked about it in our episode of is your emotional support water bottle too big? So if you want to go back and listen to that, because it was a cracker, you can do that on the abc. Listen, Apple.

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

So we don't produce the same amount of urine evenly during the day, we produce less at night. Bottom line is kidneys produce urine. The urine goes down these ureters, which are tubes which go into your bladder. Urine collects in your bladder, and then at a certain point, a signal goes to your brain that your bladder is full and you want to go to the toilet to pass urine. That's effectively how it works. Now, inside the bladder, there's a kind of triangular area called the trigone. And the trigone is part of the bladder muscle and has nervous tissue there as well. And the trigone is what's thought to produce the signal that goes to the brain from the bladder, saying you need to pass water and where they're going frequently, it's often not an issue of bladder capacity. It's often an issue of the trigone being overactive and signaling too early that you need to go to the bathroom. Then beyond the bladder, you've got sphincters.

[Podcast Host]

So there's bladder capacity, which we talked about. The sphincter is like a muscle, and that can get stretched or weakened. Is that correct?

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

Yeah. All this is not separate from the anatomy of the pelvis, which has muscles and ligaments which help to support the bladder and the structures such as the uterus in women. And the sphincters are enmeshed in both the nervous system of the pelvis and the muscular system of the pelvis. So if you've had babies, then you've stretched all that. And many women get a period of stress incontinence because their sphincters are just not working as well as they otherwise would. Aging does it, too. Aging is probably the commonest cause of this in both men and women. And it's aging of the muscles and aging of this nervous feedback to the brain where it just becomes harder to control. And either that's reflected in wanting to go more often, or you're going more often because you're terrified of being incontinent and you get into this vicious cycle.

[Podcast Host]

When I'm doing Kegel exercises we were doing together before, what am I actually lifting? It's not the sphincters. It's like the kind of everything you.

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

Are, lifting the sphincters, to some extent, you're really trying to restore muscle strength in that pelvic hammock, if you like, and the neurological supply to it you're toning up. It's essentially gym for the pelvis, gymnasium for the pelvis, trying to strengthen all that and restore function.

[Podcast Host]

So on pelvic floor exercises, I don't know if you've heard of this guy who's trying to live forever. Brian Johnson.

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

Oh, the guy who's spending $2 million a year on supplements and doctors and God knows what else. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Yes.

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

So he's made at 8 o' clock at night and has no life. Yep. Got him.

[Podcast Host]

Well, he had. There's a bladder story in Brian Johnson as well. Would you like to hear it?

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

Yes, probably.

[Podcast Host]

He. So he wants to live forever. Part of that, as you say, is optimising his sleep schedule. And so he really wanted to not be interrupted at night by needing to get up to go to the toilet. So improving his bladder function was an important focus for him. One of the ways that he has done this is that he spent 30 minutes at a time sitting on top of an electromagnetic machine that is designed to strengthen the pelvic floor. Apparently, if you use this thing, it feels like two small hands repeatedly punching you in that region in quick succession. It's typically used for women who are trying to rebuild strength of that pelvic hammock, like you said, after birth. But Johnson wanted to basically make it so he didn't have to get up to go to the toilet in the middle of the night.

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

Well, he doesn't have much fun in his life, so maybe, maybe this is the replacement.

[Podcast Host]

Anyway, he uses his watch to measure his sleep activity. Apparently it was working. He had a perfect 100 score every night, eight and a half hours sleep on average. But there were other benefits from this as well. Apparently the machine increased his urination strength in that he could stand further away from the toilet while he peed.

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

Oh, I'm sorry, I really made. I'm sorry I asked to hear the.

[Podcast Host]

Story, but why do men care so much about how far they can pee reach with their pee stream?

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

Ah, because that's the other side of an enlarged prostate is the strength of your stream drops. And that can be quite embarrassing when you're standing in a urinal. Maybe the audience doesn't want to hear all this, but it's a sign of being an older man.

[Podcast Host]

Right? So pee stream strength equals longevity and.

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

Youth, you know, pumping iron, being able to bench lift, you know, 400 kilos and being able to hit the wall at 20 meters, this is obviously the criterion.

[Podcast Host]

So, I mean, so what we're hearing there is there are some products for increasing pee power.

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

And what's certainly true is, and physiotherapists and incontinence nurses who are really good at teaching people chemotherapy. There are biofeedback mechanisms to help you. Some people find it really hard to know when they're contracting their pelvic muscles. So getting a sense of that biofeedback and a sense of when these muscles are contracting is very important so that you can strengthen them as you go along. So there are devices around to help you.

[Podcast Host]

Well, our question askers did ask about specific products to help you pee less. Christine mentioned a specific herbal supplement that we won't name, but basically it has things in it like magnesium amino acid, chelate, dry stem bark, pumpkin seed and other things. And pumpkin seed.

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

Does pumpkin seed recurs again and again? It's supposed to be good for enlarged prostates and so on. I mean, you're not doing yourself any harm with a lot of these products, whether they actually work. There's a little bit of evidence for pumpkin seed in large prostates.

[Podcast Host]

But like, in what dose? If I've got in my muesli in the morning, Is that enough or do I need to be mainlining them?

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

I don't know. There's a short answer to that question. I suspect the people who are producing pumpkin seeds as a supplement don't really know the right dose either. They'll tell you, but who knows?

[Podcast Host]

So I guess coming back to what we do know could work to help you pee less. What evidence do we have?

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

Let's just deal with the risks here that people perceive. People have been led to believe that if you hold on and don't go to the bathroom, it's bad for you. Now, where this comes from is that if you've got an obstructed bladder, you can get kidney damage because the pressure goes back up through the ureters to the kidneys and the kidneys then atrophy. That can happen with chronic and fairly severe obstruction. Here. It's a different story if what you're doing is bladder training here and trying to train your bladder to pee less often, because one of the problems, particularly with incontinence, is urge incontinence and you feel that you want to go urgently. That's part of that overactive bladder syndrome. And it's a vicious cycle because you go to the bathroom with less and less urine in your bladder and the bladder gets used to that. That trigone starts to trigger at lower levels of urine in your bladder. And it's not necessarily that your bladder shrinks sometimes. The bladder can be a normal size. In fact, it often is. But it's that triangle of tissue there that's the key here.

[Podcast Host]

So its sensor gets.

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

The sensor gets. Goes off, the centre gets distorted. The core treatment for that is Kegel exercises, but also holding on and when you want to pass urine. I'm not going to give specific advice, but continence nurses are really good at this sort of thing, is that you hold on and you don't go. When you've got that immediate sense that you want to pass urine and you try and hold on. Now, if you've got an incontinence issue because you've had lots of babies or what have you, then that can be quite hard. But that's when the Kegel exercises start to kick in. But if you hold on, you can progressively train your bladder to hold more urine and you're not going to cause kidney failure by doing that. And that's the core process. But it's an extended period of time because you might have been doing that since childhood. And it does take a conscious training to extend the number of minutes that you go once you feel that you really want to pass urine and you do get better at controlling that and you feel, well, my bladder capacity has gone up. It may not be that your bladder capacity has gone up, it may simply be that you've relaxed your trigone and your trigone is not triggering off with less urine in your bladder.

[Podcast Host]

Just one more thing on Kerry's question about holding on being bad. Is there something in that? In terms of UTIs, are people more at risk of that because of holding on too long?

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

So holding on for two or three minutes longer on one occasion and then after a week it's maybe five minutes longer and you're just slowly increasing the time you take to go to the bathroom. Just holding on, holding on. To my knowledge, that's not associated with urinary tract infections because you're going to empty your bladder quite soon.

[Podcast Host]

Time for the literal bottom line here then, Norman.

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

Oh, so I can relax now, can I? Because I've been doing my Kegel all the way through so I can unclench. Look, for most bladder problems, you can train yourself to help them without any medical intervention in terms of needles or operations and what have you. If you've got a new symptom, you need to see your GP and get that checked out to make sure it's nothing unusual. And if you want to train yourself to pee less, you can. And by peeing less, it's really not so much about peeing less, it's about peeing less often during the day.

[Podcast Host]

Well, if you're a bladder owner, I hope this conversation has been useful to you. Thanks so much, Christine, Kerry and Susan for the question. If you have a question you'd like us to answer or have a go at answering, you can email us thatrashbc.net au we really love hearing from you.

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

See you next time.

[Podcast Host]

See you then.

[Norman (Guest Expert)]

Sa.