Why the carnivore diet is so risky

Summary

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What's That Rash? — "Why the Carnivore Diet is So Risky"

ABC News | April 22, 2025

Overview

This episode delves into the popular but controversial carnivore diet, exploring its purported health benefits, real scientific risks, and sociocultural context. Recording from a live show at the World Science Festival in Brisbane, hosts Tegan (A) and Norman (B) answer audience questions, break down nutritional science, and inject humor while scrutinizing extreme dieting trends.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Is the Carnivore Diet? (03:07–05:41)

• The carnivore diet consists exclusively of animal products—typically red meat, eggs, and high-fat options—while eschewing all plant-derived foods.
• Typical daily intake:
  Breakfast: Bacon and eggs (no toast)
  Lunch: Fry pan of ground beef (no fiber, minimal Maillard reaction)
  Dinner: Steak with salt—often choosing high-fat and costly cuts like Wagyu
  Snacks: Sometimes just a stick of butter, or "bulletproof coffee" (coffee with butter)
• Carnivore diets are "almost no carbohydrates, very high fat—like 60, 70% fat and the rest protein.” (B, 03:46)

2. The Fiber Problem & Constipation (05:13–06:11)

• A major side effect: constipation due to "just zero fiber.” (A, 05:52)
• Some believe increasing fat intake "just slides out of you," but this is "because the fat doesn't get absorbed." (B, 06:06)
• Humorous note: Carnivore dieters’ toilets are "sparkling clean…because you're constipated and you never use it." (B, 05:47)

3. Did Cavemen Really Eat Like This? Debunking Paleo Myths (06:15–09:32)

• Claims that the diet mimics "what cavemen ate" are oversimplified.
• Ancient diets varied widely by geography and season; most Paleolithic humans ate a great variety of plant-based complex carbohydrates and whatever was available for foraging.
  • "Every Paleolithic diet pretty much had complex carbohydrate in it, just of different kinds." (B, 07:29)
• Archeological evidence (e.g., caves in Morocco): early humans consumed acorns, pine nuts, pistachios, oats, and legumes—ground teeth and starch decay confirm this.
• "Humans are incredibly adaptable and able to live under a lot of different conditions in a lot of different diets." (A, 09:15)
• "We are omnivorous indeed, just part of our survival.” (A, 09:33)

4. Are Plant Foods "Toxic"? (09:33–10:11)

• Some plants contain mild toxins (e.g., alkaloids in unsoaked legumes), but “meats can be contaminated as well."
• Both food groups have risks, but modern preparation and cooking practices mitigate them.

5. Scurvy: Can You Survive Without Fruits and Veggies? (10:11–11:56)

• Scurvy (vitamin C deficiency) is a legitimate risk on strict animal-only diets.
• Some traditional populations (e.g., Inuits) avoid scurvy via small amounts of vitamin C found in raw animal products and metabolic adaptations.
• "Evidence suggests people on a carnivorous diet are low in vitamin C…teetering." (B, 10:35)
• Notable Case: “Scurvy in an Unrepentant Carnivore”—the patient got scurvy twice after adhering strictly to a carnivore diet and recovered only with vitamin C. (A, 11:31)

6. Why Do Some People Feel Good on It? (12:35–13:34)

• Carnivore diet functions as a strict ketogenic diet (very low carb, high fat/protein), producing "ketone bodies" for energy.
• Many initially feel energized and report appetite suppression and weight loss, but side-effects include "constipation" and "keto breath."
• Life expectancy in the Stone Age: “28, so just be careful what you wish for." (B, 13:30)
• This sense of well-being is common to restrictive, rapid fat-burning diets, not unique to carnivore eating.

7. What Does the Science Say About Long-Term Risks? (13:39–18:20)

• Reliable long-term studies are lacking; most data is self-reported and lacks objective health outcome measures.
• Carnivore diets are often associated with extremely high cholesterol and LDL ("bad cholesterol") levels:
  • “Their total cholesterol levels exceeded 25, significantly higher than his baseline level of 5 to 7 millimoles per liter.” (A, 15:20)
  • Extreme cases can lead to xanthoma/xanthelasma—visible fat deposits under the skin and in the eyes.
• "The higher your LDL, the higher your risk of coronary heart disease, stroke, and dementia.” (B, 16:59)
• Red meat consumption, especially bacon and processed meats, is strongly correlated with increased risk of "colon cancer, large bowel cancer."
• Some short-term benefits do exist: improved vitamin B and thiamine levels; however, LDL levels tend to be “around about 4.5, which is very high, so at least twice what you'd consider a normal level." (B, 17:56)
• “Red meat is strongly associated with colon cancer.” (B, 18:16)

8. The Diet and Pop Culture/Politics (18:20–19:09)

• Hosts discuss the carnivore diet’s popularity among certain political and social figures:
  • "There's a real correlation between people who are interested in these sorts of diets and a certain bent of politics." (A, 18:28)
  • It ties into contrarian, macho, or anti-establishment narratives: "the Andrew Tate, Joe Rogan kind of story—that real men eat meat and they don't eat vegetables." (B, 18:56)

9. Takeaway: Is It Ever a Good Idea? (19:09–20:04)

• Short-term: Possible weight loss and increased energy due to caloric restriction and ketosis. May benefit blood sugar control for some diabetics.
• Long-term: High risk of cardiovascular disease, dementia, nutritional deficiencies, and likely unsustainable for most.
  • "In the long term...it's going to clog up your arteries, increase your risk of dementia and it's not a healthy way to do a ketogenic diet." (B, 19:34)
• Healthier alternatives exist: balanced ketogenic diets with some plant foods for fiber and micronutrients are possible.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Constipation is one of the problems of the carnivore diet because there's just zero fiber in it…That's why this toilet is so sparkling clean."
  — Norman (B), 05:47

• "Every Paleolithic diet pretty much had complex carbohydrate in it, just of different kinds, depending on availability."
  — Norman (B), 07:29

• "Humans are actually incredibly adaptable and able to live under a lot of different conditions in a lot of different diets. We are omnivorous indeed, just part of our survival."
  — Tegan (A), 09:15–09:33

• "Evidence suggests people on a carnivorous diet are low in vitamin C…teetering."
  — Norman (B), 10:35

• “Their total cholesterol levels exceeded 25, significantly higher than his baseline level of 5 to 7 millimoles per liter. It came out in an unusual way, literally.”
  — Tegan (A), 15:20

• "The higher your LDL, the higher your risk of coronary heart disease, stroke, and dementia...Red meat is strongly associated with colon cancer."
  — Norman (B), 16:59, 18:16

• "There's a real correlation between people who are interested in these sorts of diets and a certain bent of politics...the Andrew Tate, Joe Rogan kind of story that real men eat meat and they don't eat vegetables.”
  — Norman (B), 18:28–18:56

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Audience Q&A: Microbiome and Ileostomy (20:20–21:58)

• Question: How does the lack of a large intestine (post-ileostomy surgery) affect health, given the microbiome-brain axis?
• Response: No comprehensive studies yet, but missing the large bowel changes the microbiome substantially. Other body sites still host microorganisms, so all is not lost.
• Prebiotics, rather than commercial probiotics, are recommended for microbiome support. The best prebiotic diet? (Hint: it's not the carnivore diet.)

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Epilogue & Tone

The hosts round out the episode by ringing their “Mediterranean diet” bell—suggesting a return to proven, balanced, plant-inclusive diets—and thanking the live audience for engaging questions.

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Summary Takeaway:
The carnivore diet may provide short-term weight loss and a sense of well-being for some, but carries serious long-term health risks—especially for heart, colon, and cognitive health—according to the current science. Human beings evolved as versatile omnivores, and the best path forward is a balanced, fiber-inclusive diet.

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Transcript

[A]

This episode is brought to you by Marshalls, where you never have to compromise between quality and price. The buyers of Marshalls hustle hard working to bring you great deals on brand name and designer pieces because Marshalls believes everyone deserves access to the good stuff. Visit a Marshalls store near you or shop [e-mail] ABC Listen podcasts, radio, news, music and more.

[B]

Tegan, what's the weirdest diet you've ever been on?

[A]

I have only ever adhered directly to the Mediterranean diet or a diet exclusively of sour lollies and individually wrapped Easter eggs.

[B]

You're so sensible.

[A]

So sensible. How about yourself?

[B]

It's probably best not admitted to, but you know, these days I do adhere.

[A]

To the oh, got me reaching for my Mediterranean diet bell over here.

[B]

Yeah, and I must admit I've done a lot sorts of weird diets over the years. Not too weird, but weird enough.

[A]

Have you ever done the carnivore diet?

[B]

A version of it, but it's what we're actually discussing because we'd covered it on our recent live show as part of the World Science Festival in Brisbane.

[A]

Which you get to listen to right now here on what's that Rash?

[B]

The podcast where we answer the health questions that everybody's asking.

[A]

So you're familiar with my favorite artifact. I need some help today. I've got bells. We've got bells. And I need three volunteers. Producer Shelby, who you will have heard of as well if you've listened before, is going to hand out some med diet bells for your ringing pleasure. Only when we say the words, you know the rules.

[B]

I was actually doing a recorded interview with somebody for the health report and he brought a bell into the studio hoping I'd say it.

[A]

I love it. It's catching on. We also will I need a couple of volunteers to help read out some of our questions as the show progresses. If someone in the room would read us our first question. Hi Norman.

[C]

Hi Tegan. Over the past couple of years, I have seen a number of people migrate to a complete carnivore diet, only eating animal products like cavemen. From my understanding, the carnivore diet suggests fruits, nuts, seeds and vegetables are poisonous long term to humans. I don't know how someone can survive long term without these things. Would you not develop scurvy? I personally would find this diet incredibly boring. What puzzles me the most is that the people I know personally who follow this diet look the most energetic, fit, lean and healthy I have ever seen them. What are the health benefits and consequences of this type of diet? Anonymous, Big clap for.

[A]

I've got to know, Is anyone in this room on a carnivore diet? Has anyone tried it before? That's called selection bias.

[B]

How many here are on the Mediterranean diet?

[A]

Have you ever tried the carnivore diet?

[B]

I tried it occasionally without realizing what it was before. In the days of the ketogenic diet, I was trying to lose weight and I went on a meat diet. I felt terrible.

[A]

Meat diet. Okay. So I think it would be useful for us to sort of take a look at the day in the life of someone in the carnivore diet. And I don't want to. I mean, it sounds like this is a pretty safe, safe room. Not huge carnival diet fans here, but there are lots of people who say they feel better on it. Should we have a look at what a day in the life of a carnival diet would look like? So this is just a sample size of one, I guess, but breakfast, bacon and eggs. That feels fine, right? Unless you're vegan, maybe. No toast.

[B]

So just a way of background. Almost no carbohydrates, very high fat, like 60, 70% fat and the rest of protein.

[A]

All right, so breakfast, I'm giving that, like, a 6 out of 10 on my own personal, like, appetizing scale. What do you reckon?

[B]

I don't mind it every so often.

[A]

Yeah, we've got some bacon fans here. Okay, what about lunch? Lunch is just a big old fry pan of ground beef.

[B]

Yum.

[A]

What's our macro breakdown here, Norman?

[B]

The macro breakdown is depends on the beef, but if it's lean beef, not too much fat, but a lot of protein in there.

[A]

You know what I really like about that pan of ground beef is a complete lack of the Maillard reaction. Like, not even a crispiness piece inside.

[B]

Just brown as far as the eye can see.

[A]

All right, so that's lunch. We're feeling pretty satisfied. Let's have some dinner. Dinner is just some steak with salt.

[B]

With the fat still on.

[A]

What do you reckon?

[B]

What do I reckon? I reckon, you know, that's pretty high in fat. It's got marble fat. It's probably Wagyu looking at the marbling there. So we're talking high fat, bit of protein.

[A]

I said high cost. Also, I think that would be quite expensive.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I feel like if all I was eating was bacon, eggs for breakfast, ground beef for lunch, and a steak for dinner, I might feel peckish throughout the day. Need a snack. Okay, let's have a look. Just a stick of butter.

[B]

Yeah. So some people on the Carnivore diet will put the stick of butter in their coffee.

[A]

Yeah, I've heard it. Yeah, the bulletproof coffee.

[B]

Bulletproof coffee. There is one more slide about carnivore diet. So the carnivore diet can be a bit of a strain. And for those listening to watch that rash, we'll just put up a photograph of a toilet.

[A]

A toilet. Very clean toilet. Not. Not having much use at the moment.

[B]

No, no.

[A]

Okay, break it down. Why, please. Why is this toilet so sparkling clean?

[B]

Well, it's sparkling clean because you're constipated and you never use it. Constipation is one of the problems of.

[A]

The carnivore diet because there's just zero fiber in it to the extent that.

[B]

Some people say, well, the solution for your constipation, why don't you just eat more fat?

[A]

Oh, what, so just slides out of you. How does that work?

[B]

Well, it works just because the fat doesn't get absorbed.

[A]

So it just. Oh, yikes.

[B]

Okay, so your hypoth, your scientific hypothesis is probably correct.

[A]

So when we heard the question that was read out so beautifully before, the kind of claims that were made by the friends of the person asking the question were that these people were eating like cavemen and that perhaps fruit, vegetables, nuts or whatever had poisons in them. There's sort of two claims there. Let's talk about the cavemen thing first. What did cavemen actually eat? And cave women?

[B]

Well, cave women's a really important caveat here. So it depends where you were as an early human and which environment you were in. So if you were in the far northern reaches of the world in a cold climate, you probably did eat very few vegetables and were mostly eating blubber and seal. But for most of the world, you had carbohydrates, and the women would go out foraging for really quite complex carbohydrates. The mystery is why it took so long for agriculture to develop. But they were pretty good at finding complex carbohydrates and they had tools to pound them and make them more digestible. So every Paleolithic diet pretty much had complex carbohydrate in it, just of different kinds, depending on availability.

[A]

The thing that I find really interesting about the idea of going back to hunter gatherer societies, and I can see the logic, basically humans were evolving for a million, 2 million years to get to what we would recognize today, Homo sapiens. And then we've had sort of a lot of change in the last 50, 60,000 years.

[B]

So we actually haven't had that Much change. So the human genes have not changed that much.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

It's our environment that's changed.

[A]

Exactly. And so are we really evolved to the lifestyles that we live in today is kind of the question that I think underpins these sorts of things. The thing that I find really interesting is we actually have quite a lot of information about how humans lived before the agricultural revolution. And there's also still lots of hunter gatherer societies that still exist in the world today that we can look at. And none of them, as far as I'm aware, eat nothing but beef and salt, which is what the most extreme version of some of the carnivore diets are, partly because cattle weren't domesticated Paleolithically. And the parts of the world where cattle, like bovine ancestors, are from places like modern day Iran, we have really good evidence about what people ate there back then. Like you say, it was quite varied. I also found a really interesting article about pre agricultural remains in North Africa. They found teeth and bones and also preserved pieces of food in this cave entrance in Morocco found sweet acorns, pine nuts, pistachios, oats and legumes. Much more starchy plants and fewer aquatic species than the researchers expected to find in that particular environment.

[B]

And the teeth, they were ground down from eating the rough carbohydrates and had.

[A]

Decay, showing that there were starches in it. So there's these hints there that there were carbohydrates in that diet in that site. We obviously also have Australian, like Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander societies that follow traditional parts of their diet. Very diverse. Humans are omnivores. The thing that I always take away from these sorts of discussions is that humans are actually incredibly adaptable and able to live under a lot of different conditions in a lot of different diets.

[B]

Omnivorous.

[A]

We are omnivorous indeed, just part of our survival. The other question that was part of that question was the idea of plants and plant foods having toxicness. Is there anything in that?

[B]

Yeah, so you can have legumes which require to be soaked, otherwise you get alkaloids. So plant foods do have risks attached to them in terms of spoilage, mold, that sort of thing. But so do meats. Meats can be contaminated as well. What about particularly fecal contamination if you haven't?

[A]

I mean, anything can have poo on it. Yep, if you just believe plants can too. Norman.

[B]

True.

[A]

So one of the key words that piqued my interest in that question was scurvy. Everyone knows what scurvy is. Vitamin C deficiency. It Causes all sorts of skin and other conditions. Like you said before, there are some traditional societies that did have very, very high meat intake. Why didn't they get scurvy? I'm thinking of the Inuits that ate mostly seal and seal oil for most of the year.

[B]

Well, the evidence suggests that people on a carnivorous diet are low in vitamin C. So you are lower than probably we are because you're all on the.

[A]

Even. I missed that one.

[B]

But they are lower than average, so they're teetering. And there is evidence that some meat and fat diets preserve vitamin C, so they actually slow down the metabolism of vitamin C or provide alternative pathways and so on. So it's likely that you get a little bit of vitamin C from the meat that you're eating, but also that there's something in some of these diets which preserves. In other words, it conserves your vitamin C. You're not burning it up. And it's the overall nutrition. And remember that the sailors who got scurvy. And there are reports, by the way, of scurvy in not very many, but there are reports of people with scurvy who are on very strict carnivorous diets.

[A]

I found a case study called Scurvy in an Unrepentant Carnivore, which I just loved as a title. He had it twice. Both times they went through a barrage of tests to try to figure out what it was, and it was scurvy both times.

[B]

And they treated the vitamin C. He went home and then he came back with scurvy again, just ate a vegetable night. So it's not guaranteed that you will not become vitamin C deficient, but your vitamin C will go down.

[A]

So the question then is, what other health effects do we have? We've talked about, yes, plants can have poisonous alkaloids in them, but we cook them and that basically deals with it. Perhaps humans haven't eaten a lot of red meat a lot of the time for a lot of history, but there are people who do report having great results on a carnivorous diet. What is happening? If people have felt like they've had chronic health conditions, which is often the story with these sorts of diets, people have had thing after thing that they've basically felt like they've been brushed off by the medical society and they found something that they feel really good on. What could be happening there?

[B]

Well, this is a ketogenic diet. So you are producing ketone bodies, these alternate sources of energy, which come from metabolizing fat rather than glucose and glycogen for your energy. Well, you use glucose but the route to glucose is different and you use these ketone bodies which also replaces normal carbohydrate metabolism. So basically you're ketogenic and you've got these ketone bodies going around. And after a little while on a ketogenic diet, most people report feeling quite energized. First couple of days are a bit rough but you feel quite energized, you feel quite good and that's what people are reporting here. Your breath also smells, you do tend to constipation. But the ketogenic diet is associated with feeling quite good. There have not been very good studies. Just before we go on, life expectancy in the stone age was 28, so just be careful what you wish for.

[A]

I think that had more to do with infections in lions than heart disease though, right?

[B]

Well it wasn't heart disease. That's right. So the studies that have been done, some of the bigger studies, at least one that we've come across not very well conducted in terms of its self reported rather than objective measures of how they're going. Some objective measures have looked at blood fats for example. And so if you look at again in a self reported study they're trucking along at an LDL of about.

[A]

No, stop. I want to. No, before you start saying numbers, we need context because we're not all, I mean maybe you guys are all doctors. I'm certainly not. What's normal? What do I want to be getting when I go to my doctor and they take the blood out and they're like Tegan, you're so healthy. I can't believe these numbers. They're so good. They're right.

[B]

What's. It's not a straightforward question. We probably evolved to have a total cholesterol of 2 or 3. And if you look at some hunter gatherer societies, they are operate not carnivorous but just regular hunter gatherer societies. They truck along at very low total cholesterol levels. But we have come to an average cholesterol that we think is reasonably acceptable in a western society. But it's probably even that is too high for what we've evolved to, which is why heart disease is so common, dementia and so on. So total cholesterol 5.5.5, bad form of cholesterol, LDL 2. If you've had coronary heart disease it should be less than 1.7 and HDL over 1 and triglycerides under 1. These are millimoles per liter.

[A]

So for example, if we had a patient Whose dietary habits included a high intake of fat consisting of six to nine pounds of cheese, sticks of butter, and additional fat incorporated into daily hamburgers. I will say this person reported weight loss, increased energy, and improved mental clarity. Their total cholesterol levels exceeded 25, significantly higher than his baseline level of 5 to 7 millimoles per liter. And it came out in an unusual way, literally. What's this called?

[B]

Well, it's either called xanthoma or xanthelasma.

[A]

Xanthe, the Greek word meaning yellow.

[B]

Yeah. So it's basically fat coming out in your hands, and it comes out in your eyes, all over your body.

[A]

So this is it. Like, this is an unusual case study. Of course, if that's what's coming out your hands, what is happening inside your body, you're screwed. But he said he felt he'd lost weight. He said he felt really good. He said mental clarity.

[B]

Yeah. So there's a paper out today or yesterday showing that the lower your ldl, the less likely you are to develop dementia. So he. His ldl was what, like 12, wasn't it?

[A]

No. So there's a different. There's a different person who posted in a Facebook group called Carnivore Diet for Beginners. This person, their Total cholesterol was 15 millimoles per liter and HDL 2.5, LDL 12. The doctor is ordering a calcium test for the arteries. Doc wanted to prescribe a statin right away, but I declined.

[B]

So the higher your ldl, the higher your risk of coronary heart disease, stroke, and dementia. And some studies suggest that on a carnivorous diet. So it's not all bad. Your thiamine levels and vitamin B levels tend to be quite good. And if you look at the fat levels, again, they're not great studies. But if you look at the fat levels, the LDL looks as if it's around about 4.5, which is very high, so at least twice what you would consider a normal level. But the triglycerides were lower, which surprises me, because they're eating visible fat and their HDL was a little bit high, which is a good thing. But essentially the picture there is not good. And that's the problem with the carnivorous diets, is that they've not gone on for long enough to know what problem is, because we know in an epidemiological sense, when you look at populations, red meat consumption is directly proportional to the risk of colon cancer, large bowel cancer, and a significant part of that is processed meat. But your first slide there was bacon so it's not that they're necessarily eating fresh red meat and they're not eating lean meat either. So if you talk to the beef industry, they say, oh, well, lean red meat is fine. May or may not be true, but the reality is red meat is strongly associated with colon cancer.

[A]

The other thing that red meat consumption is strongly associated with these days feels like far right politics. It feels like this space and I don't like it's kind of funny. But it's also, it seems to be this, there seems to be a real correlation between people who are interested in these sorts of diets and a certain bent of politics. What could be behind that contrarian as.

[B]

The kind of a contrarian view that we've been misled. We don't believe people, you know, public health officials anymore. We, we've been fed lies that it's natural male thing to do to eat red meat, grilled, usually on the barbecue. And, you know, this is the Andrew Tate, Joe Rogan kind of kind of story that real men eat meat and they don't eat vegetables.

[A]

So as a takeaway to Joe Rogan and Andrew Tate, who I'm sure are listening as well as everyone else, what can we say about the carnivore diet based in science.

[B]

Based in science. Short term, like any ketogenic diet, you're going to feel quite good. You may well lose weight because it's again, restrictive. Your appetite goes down because you're eating so much protein, so you're probably not consuming as many calories. So some people with diabetes might find a short term benefit there, but in the long term, you've got no idea. We've got a reasonable idea of what it's going to do to you is that it's going to clog up your arteries, increase your risk of dementia and it's not a healthy way to do a ketogenic diet. You can do a ketogenic diet with high protein, lower levels of fat and some complex carbohydrate and still have reasonable levels of ketones in your blood. It might not be super high, but it's enough to help you lose weight, feel a bit better, but very hard to sustain.

[A]

Norman, I feel like I need a palate cleansing ding ding of the Mediterranean diet Bill to round that one out, please. Well, Norman, as you know, we always do a mailbag as part of whatsat rash. And we decided to keep this tradition going with our live show with some audience questions, given what we know now.

[C]

About the link between microbiome in the.

[A]

Gut and general Health and the brain and so on. What are the implications for somebody who.

[C]

Has had an ileostomy for 40 plus years with no gut, no large colon.

[A]

And some shortening of the small intestine?

[B]

Nobody's properly studied that. And most people with an ileostomy have had something like ulcerative colitis and therefore the large bowel has been really inflamed, very high risk of colon cancer and perforation. So you remove the large bowel to save their lives effectively and then there's a trade off in terms of quality of life, loss of fluids and what have you. But nobody's really, until recently, studied the effects on the microbiome and the fact that you don't have a large bowel there to deal with that, but you do have a respiratory tract that's full of organisms, you have a skin that's got microorganisms on it. It's not as if you have no microbiome. But I'm not aware of research which looks at people who might. Would they feel better if they were actually on a prebiotic? So the whole thing about this is, by the way, if you're microbiomes deficient, what do you do? Do you go into the chemist and buy probiotics? And most people would say there isn't really a probiotic on the market that covers you fully and you're not going to eat somebody else's poo. So prebiotics are the way to go. And what's the best prebiotic diet?

[A]

Well, that live show was a lot of fun. Thank you so much to World Science Festival Brisbane for having us. This won't be the last installment of that live show that you'll get to hear. We'll have another one for you in another couple of weeks, but keep your.

[B]

Comments and questions coming. And the email address is thatrashbc.netau See you next week.

[A]

See you then.