Loading summary
Transcript52 lines
- [00:00]
A
Hi, it's Dan. Over the past couple of years, CallMeBack has grown into something much bigger than we ever expected. A place for clarity, context, and honest conversations at a time when those things can seem hard to find. That's what ARC Media is all about. Building a truly independent voice, which means no one shaping what we say or how we say it. To help support our rapidly expanding operations, we created Inside Call Me Back, our members only feed, where we answer your questions and bring you into the conversations that typically happen after the cameras stop rolling. If Call Me Back has been meaningful to you and you want to be part of what we're building, I hope you'll join us. Right now we're offering an annual subscription for $60. That's just $5 a month. Your contribution goes a long way in helping us show up when it matters most. You can subscribe@arkmedia.org or through the link in the show Notes and to our insiders. Thank you.
- [01:06]
B
You are listening to an art media podcast.
- [01:12]
C
So, yeah. What's your number?
- [01:13]
B
My number is 2.84. And that is the amount the strong shekel is trading today per dollar. And the fascinating part of it is really the why the bank of Israel actually intervened and cut interest rates this week, which normally weakens a currency, but instead the shekel surged, surged another 8% over the last three months. So when the markets are listening to the bank of Israel Governor Amir Irone say inflation is still a priority and the bank probably won't aggressively intervene to stop the shekel from strengthening. So while this is great news for Israelis that are traveling abroad and cheaper imports, we spoke about this extensively on previous podcasts. It's a growing headache for exporters and actually for tech companies getting paid in dollars. Many are attributing this week's reported tech layoffs, which we're going to get into later in the episode, to, among other things, the very high cost of hiring Israelis in Israel. And that is because of the strong shekel. So that is my number. What's yours?
- [02:11]
C
Yeah, look, our episode the Good, the Bad, the Ugly, about the strong shekel from about a month ago turns out to be a good guide for what's going on. So mine is also related. It is 20%. That is a thousand people. The WIX layoff this week, I mean, is it AI? Is it the strength of the shekel? Is it both? Nevertheless, this could be the canary in the coal mine, and we're going to dig deeper into that. I think both our numbers are sort of related to one another. Yours more optimistic because there's good, at least there's good to a strong shekel. There is no good to a firing of 20% of one of the major players in the Israeli tex scene. So I give you the number win.
- [02:52]
B
Just goes to show how much this is top of mind for anyone in the Israeli economy broadly. It's not only in tech, it's, this is a big kind of rolling story and we'll get to it later in the show. All right, let's start.
- [03:03]
C
Let's start. All right. It is 9pm here in Israel. It's on a Tuesday, as you guys can hear on my voice. We did not record on our usual Monday. I was a bit under the weather. Getting better these days. I think the atmosphere is getting a bit more normal. Yael, is it fair to say, I mean less of a stress that we had in the last couple of weeks?
- [03:28]
B
I think there is kind of a calming, I think people thought that the Shavuot holiday, which kind of coincided nicely with the bank holiday in the UK and the Memorial Day in the us Everyone was thinking that would be a few days of war and that did not happen. But I do think that everyone is looking at every single piece of communication that comes out of the White House and on Truth Social and tries to kind of. Yeah. Understand how long will this last? Is it still waiting for us at the end of the corner, at the end of the week, at the end of the month? I don't think anyone feels like, you
- [04:01]
C
know, it's over before we dig deeper. By the way, it's been great reading the reviews from our viewers and listeners. The survey.
- [04:08]
B
Yes.
- [04:08]
C
Thoughtful and super engaged. Thank you everybody. We are working on different changes to the format to reflect your feedback. So stay tuned.
- [04:17]
B
Yes. Loving reading those reviews and getting those, that feedback. Thank you. So as usual, we're going to take a quick look at some of the week's pressing news, AKA our big shorts. And of course the latest update on the Windex, the what's your number index that tracks the performance of publicly traded Israeli based or founded companies. All right, Jonathan, how is it looking?
- [04:39]
C
So last week we reviewed the year to date performance and we saw the Windex kind of gaining ground over its history indices, the S&P 500 and the NASDAQ. Well, let's continue to gain this week, 5.11% to be exact, which is really significant on a weekly basis. It widens the return rate gap year to date compared to a modest 0.79 for the S P and an almost neutral NASDAQ 0.2%. Lemonade. Yeah, you'll be happy to hear leads the pack in the green 11.1%. J. Frog Sentinel 1 Monday in checkpoint are also above the 5% gain this week, which is great news. Looks like it's another adjustment for the rapid decline. The Sasmageddon or SaaS apocalypse. A couple of months that we had,
- [05:26]
B
we see a one week up, one week down for many of these companies. But you know, we've seen one company almost systematically going in the red and there were some weeks that it went in the green and we see what's happened there. So on another note, I think everyone should be investing with you, my friend, on the Windex, especially when you compare it to the S and P and the neutral Nasdaq.
- [05:47]
C
No investment recommendation, but I'm very happy that we spent time in building what's yous Number in creating the Windex because it's been an eye opening experience for me as well. It's this sort of Israeli spice.
- [05:58]
B
Yeah. Empirical evidence.
- [06:00]
C
Yeah. On that note, no real red story this week, nothing significant. That said, and we'll talk about it in the big shorts. The Israeli big digs, the big digitals are fighting a battle with the Shekel and with the AI strength and changes and rapid growth in terms of velocity. And I think that's going to be with us for months to come and actually may end up hurting also the Windex. But what we're seeing in Wall street is very interesting is the more companies fire, which is bad for the Israeli, you know, employment market, labor market, the better the stock performs. So let's not forget the difference between a Wall street performance and real economy when it comes to the workforce here in Israel.
- [06:38]
B
The perfect storm for that AI strong shekel. Wall street performance is of course Wick. So let's start with our first big short. We're going to start with a story that may turn out to be a defining moment for Israeli tech AI era. We're still in it, so it's hard for me to crown it, but for sure this is about top of mind for really anyone working in tech, but also the Israeli economy in general. Reports are saying this week that wix, which is the Israeli founded company that lets anyone build and run websites online and they've been increasingly using AI to automate design content and business tools and have also acquired companies in that regard. They are reported to be preparing for layoffs of as many as 800 to 1,000 employees. That's potentially about 20% of its workforce. The largest downsizing in company history. The company itself has not, to my knowledge, until this moment of recording, confirmed the numbers and has largely declined to comment. But the speculation around the cuts is pretty fascinating. If you open up Twitter in Hebrew and English in whatever language, it's all the talk. The question is, is this an AI story, as we've also discussed, is it a Wall street story, as you just raised, or is it a broad Israeli economy story? Or is it something that, you know, that we have to look at from a national level and look inwards? And it probably has elements of all three. Wix has been aggressively pivoting into AI after acquiring Base44, a company in the likes of the Lovables and the Cursors of this world, investing heavily in AI generated website creation tools, while at the same time facing soaring compute costs, a collapsing stock price that we've heard in the Windex week after week, and now a super strong shekel that really makes Israeli payroll far more expensive in dollar terms. So this may not just be about layoffs, Yonatan, it may be kind of a preview of what next phase of global tech restruct looks like. What do you think?
- [08:28]
C
I think you're framing it in the right way. We're going to find out. I mean, I have a lot of sympathy to the leadership at wix. I think they made quite a number of steps to deal with this challenge. It is not easy. I mean, this is again like a perfect storm. There is Criticism towards the $1.5 billion share buyback work that they have done in the last four or five weeks. We discussed that in previous episodes. It means that they're reaching this need for a pivot with a far smaller war chest to kind of sustain the pivot, which, you know, I think it's fair criticism of the management's decisions in that context, but I'm very far from being a critic of those in the arena near Zora Vishai. These people are titans of our industry and I really don't envy them in terms of how to navigate these waters. I do think that, you know, it is possible that 12 months down the line they're going to be a downsized company growing faster. Because if you read the quarterly report on the base 44 growth, it is significant. So are we seeing part of the Global Dynamics here of lower employee rate in general with higher revenue and higher margins? Are these the new companies we're going to see? Wix is going to lead the way. We're going to learn a lot through wix. I Will say one kind of optimistic note towards the end, even if WIX suffers and it's going to even half in size and grow by revenue, I actually feel very confident for the Israeli tech scene in the sense that this can be a Cambrian explosion. Some companies will collapse, other companies that will be smaller in size and more fit for function. Right. Of a stronger shekel, of a stronger AI are going to rise. Because at the end of the day, stronger shekel also means that your compute costs, which are in dollars, are 25% cheaper. Right. So that's the flip side of the same coin. So those are thoughts on that topic.
- [10:16]
B
I do want to mention WIX has been maybe one of the most defining companies in Israeli tech, maybe ever in the amount of employees it took under many were junior at the time, just the designers at wix. You know, the pixel perfect culture really kind of brought a new generation of tech entrepreneurs and many, many ex WIX employees have gone on to create their own company. So it has a real kind of sentimental value, I think in Israeli tech.
- [10:44]
C
Let's not eulogize WIX yet.
- [10:45]
B
No. But to all those who have been sadly laid off, there is more for you to do and upwards and onwards.
- [10:53]
C
All that's beautiful about Israeli tech is really reflected in wix. You know, being bold, being audacious, going dtc. So many Israeli companies back in the day were like, oh, Israelis don't know how to do marketing globally, they don't know how to do dtc.
- [11:06]
B
Right.
- [11:06]
C
This is a trailblazer. That's why I feel very confident over the long term, even if they are half the size, they're going to be in higher revenue. And from a Wall street perspective, that's great. Right. From Israeli ecosystem, those who are parting ways will have to find the new path. They've done that before. The Israeli tech is elastic from that perspective. I think it's a great segue to sort of how does Israeli tech, how do we enhance the elasticity of the workforce in Israel? So my big short is 2.6 billion shekel budget that passed earlier this week in a government decision. Given the shekel strength, this is about a billion dollars to the AI Bureau. The AI Bureau now officially has AI Israel.org Il Erez Askal, the leader of this unit is now been awarded the war chest. He needs to do education, supercomputing and everything that is at the guardrails of the AI infrastructure for Israeli companies to rise. So I think kind of when you think about where the government is, the bank of Israel is lowering the interest rate. It will probably have to be more active in the foreign exchange space. The government is investing in AI. I think one of the last decisions the government will make before the dissolution of the Knesset, of the Parliament in the next couple of weeks will be passing of this law, which is critical. The billion dollars are going to make a difference and I hope and we'll know in the next few weeks if the academia also gets its fair share of the budget so that it has its, I would say, next three to five year plan at the basic science and the basic research to kind of complement in previous readjustments of the tech industry of Israel. This was the recipe. Companies close, capital injection comes in, government invests in infrastructure, not in sort of selecting the winners. Then the scene sort of picks up and rises to the challenge. I see a good recipe here and believe this is going to be a strong story of growth. As I look at Germany, France, Italy and others and really see no, you know, they suffer the losses and there's no vision for how on earth do they play in the next round of digital and AI and startups. So again, feeling bullish overall, even though there might be a short term pain in the industry.
- [13:18]
B
Right. I mean, there is kind of a fascinating contradiction that you can't just unsee this week. Right. We were talking about AI21 layoffs last week, WIX layoffs this week. So private companies are really cutting headcount while at the same exact moment the government is pouring money into AI infrastructure because they now see it as a strategic national security and economic infrastructure. You know, that is net positive, of course, but it's hard to, you know, there's the timing, the fewer jobs in some places, but a really big budget to kind of build underneath it all. I can't ignore that contradiction.
- [13:50]
C
The government plays the role of the foundational player and then it needs to allow for companies to fail. It's part of how we work, it's part of how we operate. At the same time, ServiceNow just completed the acquisition of Armis and I think it was 7.75 billion in the end. And so good, bad, some ugly, but definitely overall the trajectory is positive. And I think overall, as you kind of listen to candidates, because we are very much in an election period right now, you will hear Netanyahu laying out his vision and kind of looking at the AI bureau and the budget and the defense tech, you will hear, you already do hear Naftali Bennett giving out the broad strokes of his AI vision. That's a good thing, that AI and tech investment and engines of growth are seminal to the election process and so I'm looking forward to that. I think again, there may be plausible short term pain in the industry, but the mid to long term trajectory remains super, super strong indeed.
- [14:50]
D
I'm Deborah Pardes, the host of ARC News Daily. What's happening in Israel and the Jewish world right now matters, but it can be hard to keep up, let alone make sense of it all. That's why we started ARC News Daily. Every weekday morning I walk you through the most important news, give you the context you need and let you know what to look out for next. I don't try to convince you of anything and I don't waste your time. On most days I'll be in your ears for about 10 minutes or less. Then you can move on with your day. Hopefully a little bit smarter than before. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts or follow the link in the show notes. I hope to see you tomorrow.
- [15:38]
B
Let's go to our long play so historically Pakistan is not a country we in Israel spend too much time thinking about. There are no diplomatic relations, there are no trade ties to speak of, and officially the two countries barely acknowledge one another.
- [15:53]
C
The Pakistani passport says valid everywhere outside of Israel.
- [15:58]
B
There you go. But suddenly Pakistan is popping up everywhere in the Iran story. And that is why I texted you over the weekend and said we're speaking about Pakistan. In recent weeks, Islamabad has emerged as a behind the scenes mediator between Iran, the US and the Gulf states, even hosting ties tied of course to this fragile ceasefire, very fragile ceasefire after the Israel Iran escalation just a couple of weeks ago. And that's what makes I think Pakistan so fascinating right now. Like where did it come from? It's the only nuclear Muslim majority country in the world. It borders Iran, it has deep dives Saudi Arabia and to China. And despite having these zero relations with Israel, it's becoming impossible to ignore in the Middle east power map when I look at it, especially as it's forming vis a vis this war. So we're going to break down Pakistan the view from Israel and we're going to start from the Tapionatan. Why and how was Pakistan chosen to mediate between Israel, Iran, the US and those war talks? And why do you think it's important?
- [16:57]
C
Look, I think your instinct on the topic is critical because this is also an economic story, right? We've been brought up in the last decade to think regionally is the Israeli region ends with Saudi Arabia in the east, right?
- [17:09]
B
Right.
- [17:10]
C
So I've been extensively working, writing, working also with key people here in Israel to extend the thought process to India. Right. Or the way that Jaishankar, the Foreign Minister of India, calls our region West Asia. So are we part of West Asia? If we are, Pakistan and Iran are part of that region. Right. So I think that's why it's important, because regional dynamics, imec, where Israel goes to achieve its trillion dollar GDP goal has to do with the region. And if we want to make that decision for Israel, understand the trajectory, we have to understand those major players. And Pakistan has been behind the scenes and not a critical player up until literally four or five weeks ago. Almost north of 200 million people, a very fragile economy, very poor, but nevertheless a nuclear power. The first and so far only Muslim country to own a nuclear weapon. I think the way to think about sort of what's going on right now is the realignment of the region. Because remember a year ago to the day almost Pakistan and India had a very significant 10 day military confrontation. So Pakistan of last year was confronting India, losing that war to a great degree and kind of strengthening India's reliance on Israeli weapons on sort of its independent posture in the region. And here you have the same Pakistan that lost last year in the war who kind of drew the support from Turkey, drew the support from Saudi, rising up as an independent, strong power broker. So it is very important to understand the choice of Pakistan instead of Ankara, Turkey instead of Doha. Qatar has been really injurious to those capitals. You know, the Qataris were very angry in the beginning. The Turks and the Indians were very angry. And I think you kind of ask yourself if you're a pundit or if you're a geopolitical expert. Right. Why is the poor country, underdeveloped country winning this trust from the Americans? And I think, you know, we have four or five points we kind of exchange about we're going to go through that I think kind of really tell the story of why Pakistan.
- [19:14]
B
All right, hold on. Let's start from the beginning. Because when you do look at the map of the Middle east, the way we're kind of been used to thinking, as you said, it kind of ends quote unquote at Saudi Arabia. But the founding of Pakistan really was around the time Israel was founded.
- [19:28]
C
Yeah. So 1947. 48. Right. India and Pakistan are broken into two states. Big migration of Muslim people from India into what is today's Pakistan in many ways, millions of people immigrating. And there is no unrwa, there is no UN resolution There is no Indian refugee agency on earth. This is a movement of people just about the same time of Israel's independence, with the same context of a lifting of a British mandate or equivalent of Lord Mountbatten then signs off on that border, by the way, creating the challenge with Kashmir, which we are all familiar with. At the end of the day, that split creates India and Pakistan. Pakistan, very much in the context of what we know also from our region, chooses a certain path that ends up with really a defunct government, a military regime, poor economy, subject to Saudi Wahhabism by the way, and meddling and involvement, radicalization. We know the madrasas in Pakistan, they're very famous in terms of Al Qaeda and so on. Whereas India chooses a democratic, somewhat, you would say, secular path and ends up with being almost a $5 trillion economy right now, growing at 7 or 8% under the leadership of Narendra Modi, really becoming a global powerhouse, whereas Pakistan really isn't. A series of choices throughout the years, a lot to do with the religious nature of the regime and so on, ended up with what we know of Pakistan today.
- [20:59]
B
And yet Pakistan is a nuclear country.
- [21:02]
C
Not only that, it's a nuclear country and the mother of the Islamic nuclear bomb. It is the single most nefarious actor for decades when it comes to nuclear proliferation. Abdulkader Khan, the father of the nuclear bomb in Pakistan, by the way, was a super advanced engineer who worked in the Netherlands for the Union in a very secret kind of elite scientific expedition, if you will, to understand how to build nuclear reaction both militarily and for electricity, civilian uses from enriched uranium in centrifuges. Sounds familiar, right? So Abdulkader Khan was one of the people who broke ground on this sophisticated technology. And when India detonated its device, which by the way, was called Smiling Buddha back in the day in the 70s, Abdulkadur Khan decides that he is a patriot and he smuggles all the secret data, builds a black market dual use capacity and drives the Pakistani enriched uranium program. When Pakistan detonates its own, it then also proliferates to North Korea, Iran and Libya. The nuclear bomb path, chosen by Iran, chosen by North Korea, chosen by Libya and some other countries where those were deserted as they were too expensive, were led by Abdelkado Khan. Literally, if there is one person that if you kind of in a divergence of history, eliminate. Or he made a different choice to stay in the Netherlands and eat, you know, Gouda cheese and go watch Ajax Amsterdam, the world would have been a far less volatile world right now. Sometimes single humans have that impact on history.
- [22:41]
B
And Pakistan did this, as mentioned, the other countries outside of the Western alliance system, outside of NATO, in defiance of the international order. And so when we take it back here, they're not just another regional player here. It's kind of almost like a shadow nuclear power shaping the entire conversation.
- [22:58]
C
You're totally right. You know, the Saudi Pakistani security pact, the whole point was we Saudis, we're not going to spend all this money on a nuclear bomb. We're just going to have a pact with you guys and you're going to be our nuclear umbrella. Right. They were paid for that. Listen, this is a country where only 7% of the people pay income tax. It is a very poor country. It ran a rolling credit for debt with the United Arab emirates for almost 20 years that just was cut loose in the last couple of months because of Pakistan's stance with Iran. Clearly, they're not an honest broker. They side with Iran, they facilitate the dynamics for Iran, and then Saudi Arabia and Qatar pay the bill. Pakistan doesn't live up to its commitments on the security partnership with Saudi Arabia. They don't intervene. And as soon as the ceasefire is declared, Pakistan deploys two squadrons into Saudi Arabia, basically knowing there's no longer war. Now we're going to help, sure.
- [23:53]
B
But historically, now that you think of it, they have been at the center, maybe in the shadows, but in the center of almost every major geopolitical obsession over the last few decades. Nuclear weapons, we just laid that out. Terrorism. Right. Osama bin Laden, Afghanistan, Iran, China. And we were texting before the CIA themselves.
- [24:13]
C
Yeah, I think the big surprise when the CIA was looking for Saha bin Laden in Tora Bora and all those places in Afghanistan where all the while he was just sitting there in what seems to be something of a safe house of the Pakistani intelligence services. I mean, it's very clear that that space that they've created is very lawless and is very hard to control. The dynamics around the Taliban, around these misogynist regimes, radical regimes, aggressive, violent regimes are within that space. I will say the one thing we have to be very aware of, not only that they provided the nuclear technology to those countries, they've also hinted nuclear weapons are a political immunity. And so I think what Iran learned from the story with Abdelkader Khan and Pakistan, it's not just about how to take the path of centrifuges, which, by the way, Iran, the IR4, the fourth generation, is like way beyond Abdul Qarahan. Iran is more sophisticated than Pakistan. Its population is Far more educated, far more capable. And so the nuclear path that Iran took is thousand x more sophisticated than the original Abdulkadir Khan centrifuge plan. Nevertheless, Pakistan is a great model for them of how to reach that immunity.
- [25:26]
B
So how does this nuclear power, which really went defiant of any kind of Western alliance suddenly become, get this 15 minutes of diplomacy fame, as you say?
- [25:37]
C
Yeah, I think it boils down to, like the four or five elements we discussed. First of all, it has kinship with Iran. It has its trust. Both countries see eye to eye. What Iran sees in Israel, Pakistan sees in India. The rationale of this country has a nuclear weapon. Why can't we. The rationale, that's sort of one, two, they have their trust because they're the ones who facilitated the whole enriched uranium path and process. The third is that the CIA traditionally was very comfortable with a small minority controlling such a geopolitical powerhouse in that region and has really developed tremendous relationship with, you know, the military regime in Pakistan throughout the years post 911 and so on and so forth. So there is that level of trust. I think the fourth is the collapse of Doha and Ankara as a space for that regional dynamic. Also Oman, which if you remember, was the one negotiating in Geneva three months ago. And I think the fifth is they were the only ones willing to take that risk and also to show their face, take that step in favor of Iran to win their trust, whereas Oman wasn't willing to. Qatar, which is willing to do it now, wasn't willing to do that a couple of months ago. So you add all that up and you get a third world country with a defunct economy, with a low standard of living, with really a failed state with a nuclear weapon, which, you know, we were very close to. Iran being that kind of country. I would bet, though, that once this is over, if at all, it is over in a positive way, which is, you know, jury's still out. Pakistan is not going to enjoy the dividend beyond an Iran Pakistan rapprochement of some kind.
- [27:14]
B
Pakistan has truly spent decades trying to matter strategically beyond South Asia, and the Iran crisis may finally give it that opening. We'll keep our eyes peeled. Thank you, Yonatan.
- [27:25]
C
Thank you. So we have great words of the week because they come from none other than President Trump. As part of the discussions to end the Iran war, he called in Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Pakistan to join the Abraham Accords. He did it in a very lengthy truth social post, which we're not going to read all in its entirety, but here's the by Copy of this Truth. I am asking my representatives to begin and successfully complete the process of signing these countries he's alleging to Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Qatar into the already historic Abraham Accords. Now, we may laugh about this, but there was another interesting leak from Mohammed bin Salman right after this Truth Social, which he did not confirm. The palace did not confirm, but did appear in quotes from the palace saying that Muhammad bin Salman is willing to recognize Israel, but his father refuses. And this has been speculation, right, that Salman King, Salman who's still alive. We all know that Mohammed bin Salman is the son of Salman. Bin Salman. King is still the heir apparent. He's not yet the king. I don't know if I buy that, but kind of lends credence to the fact that the president was not just posting that on Truth. We know from Barak Ravid, reporter on Axios, who is known to have a good access to the White House, sometimes being used as a decoy, but, but oftentimes delivering the scoop that on that conference call when the president said, you should all join the Abraham Accords, I'm doing all these great things for you. The one thing you can do for me is to join. There was a moment of silence on the call, and he did not get any formal response.
- [29:04]
B
Maybe they're just thinking it over. You know, they have to think it over. Doesn't mean no. But you know what? It does. When the news came out also in Israel and the headlines came out, I think a lot of people certainly dismissed it as another thing that Trump says on social. But I do think that it got a lot of people also thinking about how it's creating unlikely alliances. And it's not just about identity politics. It's becoming a more complicated web of tech and military leverage, energy routes, nuclear deterrence. Now that we're hearing, and other geopolitical
- [29:36]
C
concerns, I think you're spot on. And I think this is, to me, the biggest question over the next three to four years come 2030, does the region, and I do call it West Asia, in many ways, it's not the Middle east per se. That ends in Saudi. Right. Pakistan is important. India is important.
- [29:51]
B
Right.
- [29:51]
C
Does it reorient around an Israeli, uae, India alliance, and then Pakistan, Saudi, Qatar, Turkey bad, really bad, or does it sort of reorient around an imec? Right. The Saudi switch. Does the Iranian regime lose credence and fall? You know, does it fall at the end of the day, the next few years are going to determine the lot. And I think for Israel, two things must, must sort of be critical. One, focus inwards. Fix what's broken internally. Fix the rotten elements of government that were weakened in 15 years of focus on the outside. Bring the energy, the formative energy of the geopolitical campaign following October 8th into the internal dynamics. I think that's one I'm not a man who believes in the sort of what we call national therapy. National therapy. I don't believe it needs to be in unity. We just need to do the right things. And the second piece is really keep a door open and leave the villain, the jungle idea. Like, really think through. How do we show the strength of partnering with Israel, like the Iron Dome in the uae, like the dynamic with Azerbaijan, with Greece, with Cyprus? How do we make sure that we're not passive as the region reorients? Because if it reorients in a bad way, then you know our kids are going to have to fight again. And, you know it's on us to try and make it so that the leverage that was gained through the war makes it so that the odds of that happening are slimmer. They'll never be zero, but are slimmer. I don't know if this sort of makes sense, but that's kind of how I think about the whole Pakistan and regional dynamic right now. Let's hope that's it for today's show. Thanks for tuning into ARC Media's what's yous Number? We hope you found it interesting. If you did, be sure to, like, subscribe, rate, review, you know the drill. Most importantly, share it with others who you think will find it interesting. And as you have responded with feedback to the questionnaire, we are going to make changes to the format. So any further feedback, you know, just throw it into what's Your number? @arc media.org that's our email.
- [31:54]
B
What's your numbers? And ARC Media podcast, what's your numbers? Interim executive producer is Beth Perlman. Production manager is Brittany Cohen. ARC's community manager is Ava Weiner. Sound and video editing is by Liquid Audio. Our theme music is by Midnight Generation. I'm Yael Wisner Levy.
- [32:09]
C
I'm Yona Terence Dewey. See you soon. This podcast offers general business and economic information and is not a comprehensive summary for investment decisions. It does not recommend or solicit any investment strategy or security.