Podcast Summary: When It Clicked
Episode: Jeanne Woodford: Reforming San Quentin From the Inside
Host: Ana Zamora (Founder & CEO, The Just Trust)
Guest: Jeanne Woodford (Former Warden, San Quentin State Prison)
Date: February 12, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode centers on Jeanne Woodford, the groundbreaking first woman to serve as warden of San Quentin State Prison, and her lifelong advocacy for rehabilitation and reform in corrections. Host Ana Zamora leads a deeply personal, insightful conversation about Woodford’s transformative impact at San Quentin, her shift from overseeing executions to championing the end of the death penalty, and her vision for humane, effective justice.

The episode shines a light not just on what’s broken in the U.S. prison system, but on what already works—and what a better justice system could look like when rehabilitation and accountability are prioritized over punishment.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Influences and Entry to Corrections

• Messages about Right and Wrong (03:09 – 04:37)

  • Woodford’s Catholic upbringing and listening to her father’s friends (some previously incarcerated at San Quentin during Prohibition) shaped her empathy and understanding of the justice system’s complexity.
  • She learned early that laws can be hard to understand and saw the human side of those affected.

  “We really needed to look at the criminal justice system not as everybody who’s committed a crime, but what they were in prison for and what we needed to do to change sometimes policy or to help individuals who are within our prison system.”
  — Jeanne Woodford (04:30)

• Path to San Quentin (04:44 – 05:57)

  • Wanted to be a youth counselor, but California’s Prop 13 cuts eliminated those jobs. Prisons were recruiting college grads with an aspiration to create “social worker” correctional officers, which attracted Woodford—but she quickly learned reality was far from that promise.

  “I went to work at San Quentin two weeks after graduating... and realized that they were very far away from that goal and still have not met it today.”
  — Jeanne Woodford (05:39)

2. San Quentin’s Dramatic Transformation

• Early Days at San Quentin (05:57 – 08:16)

  • Pre-tough-on-crime era: San Quentin resembled a college campus, with educational programs and former death row inmates living in the general population.
  • Post-legal changes: With 25-to-life sentences and reinstated death penalty, violence surged. Young, desperate inmates faced hopelessness and chaos.

  “Within six months, the violence at the prison was out of control... we were running around like crazy people really trying to address the stabbings, the murder of inmates by other inmates. Just. It was really horrific. In fact, I left the prison many times in tears, like, what am I doing here?”
  — Jeanne Woodford (08:16)

3. Redefining Prison Leadership: Dignity and Respect

• A Different Approach as Warden (09:39 – 11:23)

  • Woodford led by example: addressed incarcerated people respectfully, checked on those struggling, encouraged peer mentorship, and instituted humane policies for staff and residents alike.
  • Created a system of thank-you notes to recognize good acts, which became cherished by many.

  “If I saw an inmate who looked like they were depressed or sad, I would go over and talk to them and find out what was going on... If I saw somebody doing something good, whether it was an inmate or a staff member, I wrote them a thank you note.”
  — Jeanne Woodford (10:13, 10:56)

4. Accountability vs. Punishment

• True Accountability: The Success Dorm Model (11:57 – 13:24)

  • Success Dorm required inmates to develop parole plans, participate in self-help, and do community service—Woodford’s vision of accountability.
  • Emphasized victim-offender dialogue, giving back, and personal responsibility over punitive measures.

  “To me, that’s accountability. You know, you need to take responsibility for what you did, to figure out what you’re going to do going forward... and you need to make sure that you are acknowledging that you need to contribute to society in some way.”
  — Jeanne Woodford (12:26)

  “I don’t know what punishment really does for anybody or retribution. I don’t know how that makes our society safer or makes anyone whole.”
  — Jeanne Woodford (13:14)

5. From Warden to Death Penalty Opponent

• Personal Transformation (15:28 – 18:51)

  • Oversaw four executions: never personally in favor, but felt a duty to carry out the law.
  • Realized death penalty’s arbitrary, ineffective, and morally questionable aspects as she worked with death row residents.

  “You got the death penalty if you committed your crime in L.A. and you didn’t get it if you committed your crime in San Francisco… The difference in crimes were often non-existent.”
  — Jeanne Woodford (16:50)

  “Every day you wake up saying, In 60 days I’m going to be killing someone... I just don’t understand why we believe that the death penalty is necessary in this country when we have very secure prisons and these inmates pose no greater risk inside the prison system than any other inmates. It’s just time to end it.”
  — Jeanne Woodford (17:44, 18:30)

6. Building a Culture of Rehabilitation

• Bringing the “R” Back: Programs That Work (19:53 – 22:37)

  • Fought for rehabilitation because that’s true public safety.
  • At San Quentin, 3,000 volunteers brought transformative programs: college education, meditation, yoga, gardening. Witnessed profound changes in participants over time.

  “I was able to see the change in inmates... They would share with me that their children were doing well... If I walked into the visiting room and they were sitting there talking to their kids, they were solving algebra problems in the visiting room.”
  — Jeanne Woodford (20:06)

  • College program was most impactful; students’ pride and professors’ enthusiasm created transformative moments.
  • Gardening programs and “quiet places” (chapels, libraries, courtyards) helped people escape the constant pressures of prison and made San Quentin unique.

7. The Importance of Community Connections

• Keeping People Close to Home (23:30 – 25:18)

  • Sending people far from their support networks increases isolation and impedes rehabilitation.
  • San Quentin later implemented programs to help residents connect with outside organizations, churches, and veterans’ services to foster reentry success.

  “Not only were they facing 25 to life? But they’re facing the isolation from people that they know and love... just having those connections and letting individuals know someone cares about them is incredibly important for their success on parole.”
  — Jeanne Woodford (24:01, 25:14)

8. Imagining a New Kind of Prison

• What Could Modern Corrections Look Like? (26:29 – 28:57)

  • San Quentin is slowly shifting towards a more rehabilitative approach; Woodford highlights correctional models (like some mental health facilities) focused on humane, supportive environments.
  • Advocates for smaller, less crowded prisons without unnecessary harsh security features.

  “I think we need to get rid of cells where we absolutely don’t need them and to really create much more humane environment for inmates... The good news is... electric fences keep inmates inside... you don’t need all those bars and wire and all the things that exist at most prisons around the United States.”
  — Jeanne Woodford (27:55, 28:29)

9. Clearing Up Myths: Not “Soft on Crime”

• Smart, Not Soft, on Crime (29:35 – 31:19)

  • Rejects accusations that reformers are “soft on crime” and instead calls for “smart on crime” policies focused on community well-being, addressing root causes like addiction and mental illness, and promoting evidence-based reforms.

  “You’re just so soft on crime. You’re a hug, a thug, all that stuff. But... I think that I’m smart on crime. I think that you have to look at public safety just so much more broadly than we do. And do we want to spend money locking people up, or do we want to spend our resources on improving our neighborhoods?”
  — Jeanne Woodford (29:35)

10. Hopes for the Future and Busting Myths

• Myth-Busting and Vision (31:27 – 33:33)

  • The biggest myth: Punishment works. In reality, billions spent on punishment don’t bring safety or change—individualized approaches and strategically designed, humane facilities are the future.
  • Woodford is hopeful about San Quentin’s ongoing transformation and the shift toward evidence-based, global best practices.

  “The myth I would like to bust, Well, I think that would be that punishment is the answer. I mean, it just really isn’t... We really need to understand what actually impacts people’s behavior. And we need to understand people better.”
  — Jeanne Woodford (31:49)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Dignity:
  “I always spoke to them with dignity and respect... I wrote them a thank you note... And when I would walk around the prison, I would see those thank you notes hanging on the wall of inmate cells.” — Jeanne Woodford (10:13–11:01)

• On Real Accountability:
  “True accountability really has nothing to do with punishment. It has to do with realizing and recognizing and owning the harm that you caused.” — Ana Zamora (13:26)

• On Overcrowding’s Impact:
  “At one point, I had 6,200 inmates at San Quentin State Prison, a prison designed for 3,100 inmates. So we need smaller prisons.” — Jeanne Woodford (28:29)

• On Legacy:
  “She literally put the R back into CDCR, California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation. Today, the prison is undergoing a massive transformation, shifting away from punishment alone to focus on skill building and social connection... and it’s the kind of change Jeannie was pushing for decades ago. Now that’s a legacy.” — Ana Zamora (33:46)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Early Life & Entry to Corrections: 03:09 – 05:57
• San Quentin’s Transformation: 05:57 – 08:16
• Leadership Style & Dignity: 09:39 – 11:23
• Redefining Accountability: 11:57 – 13:24
• Death Penalty Transformation: 15:28 – 18:51
• Rehabilitation & Programs: 19:53 – 22:37
• Community & Family Connections: 23:30 – 25:18
• What Prisons Could Be: 26:29 – 28:57
• Not Soft, but Smart on Crime: 29:35 – 31:19
• Myths & Hopes for the Future: 31:27 – 33:33

Episode Tone

The conversation is intimate, grounded, and hopeful, blending Woodford’s candor and wisdom with Zamora’s warm, mission-driven advocacy. The atmosphere is pragmatic but deeply compassionate, punctuated by stories of hardship, institutional transformation, and a persistent belief in people’s capacity for change.

For listeners seeking a striking look inside one of the country’s most iconic prisons—and a blueprint for a truly rehabilitative system—this episode is essential.