Andrew McCarthy

Summary

Podcast Summary: Where Everybody Knows Your Name – Andrew McCarthy (May 20, 2026)

Overview

In this episode, Ted Danson (without Woody Harrelson) is joined by actor, writer, and director Andrew McCarthy. The conversation explores the themes of male friendship, loneliness, and personal growth—anchored around McCarthy’s new book, Who Needs Friends?, which investigates the ways men experience, avoid, and long for connection. The two share candid stories about their families, their careers, and the ways their backgrounds shaped their relationships with others and themselves. The tone is intimate, thoughtful, and tinged with both humor and vulnerability.

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Main Discussion Themes

1. Male Friendship & Loneliness

• Andrew’s Book and Motivation

  • McCarthy discusses writing Who Needs Friends? and how his own introverted, solitary nature paradoxically qualified him for the topic.

    “When I told my wife I was writing a book about friendship, she looked at me and said, ‘are you fucking kidding me? You?’ And I said, who better to write the book?” (04:17, Andrew)

  • Both men reflect on tendencies to prioritize romantic/familial relationships over male friendships and the safety/comfort they found with women due to difficult paternal relationships (06:10).
  • Andrew defines friendship as safety as much as trust—recalling his older brother’s role as his protector and the motif of seeking older, larger friends as an adult (07:20).

• Ted’s Parallel Experience

  • Ted recognizes himself in Andrew’s descriptions, despite seeming more outgoing:

    “I can be as surfacey as anyone in Hollywood... I was the guy who always was like, yeah, no, no, that sounds great. I’ll catch up with you. Don’t wait for me. And never, ever, ever did.” (05:55, Ted)

2. Childhood, Parenting, and Patterns of Connection

• Discussions of emotionally distant fathers and close mother relationships shaped their adult relationships and sense of safety (09:40).
• The two compare their inherited behaviors and how they try to parent differently, particularly regarding showing affection:

  “When I was a kid, my dad would say, ‘I love you’... but I was terrified of you. I don’t… I guess I love you, you’re my father, but I was terrified of you.” (10:38, Andrew)

3. The Cost of Disconnection and Importance of Community

• Both discuss lifestyles that foster isolation and the invisible line between solitude and loneliness, especially for men (04:55, Andrew).
• Ted and Andrew note the health risks of loneliness and how technology and modern life exacerbate isolation, referencing scientific research on increased risks of dementia and heart disease (35:08, Andrew).

4. Andrew’s Journey: Travel, Sobriety, and Self-Discovery

• Entry into Writing: Started as a travel writer after feeling adrift post-early film success; travel, rather than acting, made him feel at home with himself (12:26).
• Turning Point: Spoke about alcoholism, his 1992 rehab, and how ‘Cheers’ reruns unexpectedly helped bond his rehab group:

  “One of the guys then discovered… Cheers was on every night. We would gather around and watch Cheers... we totally bonded over the alcoholic part of Cheers.” (15:10, Andrew)

• Walking the Camino: Chose the Camino de Santiago pilgrimage after randomly picking up a book, hoping for self-discovery. Had a revelatory moment in a wheat field where he recognized the absence of fear for the first time (19:22).

5. Artistry, Fame, and Fear

• Both discuss anxieties and insecurities masked by public success.
• Andrew recounts a recent stage performance that terrified him, but ultimately taught him about vulnerability and courage in art (22:22, Andrew).
• Ted notes his own reasons for doing the podcast:

  “This is why I’m doing this… it scares the shit out of me.” (22:27, Ted)

6. Masculinity and Self-Worth

• Both share that American ideals of macho manhood left them feeling “not man enough” for decades, fueling feelings of insignificance (09:40).
• Discuss the compulsion men feel to provide and perform, and how these external measures shape their self-esteem (52:15).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Safety in Friendship

  “Someone asked me, finally I said safety—a feeling of safety which encompasses trust. But it’s something more than trust. It’s just like you’re looked after.”
  — Andrew (07:20)

• On Early Breaks and Hollywood Awkwardness

  • Story of Jacqueline Bisset’s kindness post-'Class' shoot, including driving Andrew to auditions and introducing him to the Hollywood scene (40:31).

• On Sobriety & 'Cheers'

  “We would all…gather around and watch Cheers... we totally bonded over the alcoholic part of Cheers. And that changed my life. And you know, I haven’t had a drink since.”
  — Andrew (15:10)

• On Facing Fear through Acting

  “I was literally in my dressing room sobbing on the phone to my wife, going, how could you have let me do this? This is your fault.”
  — Andrew (23:16-24:13)

• On Compartmentalizing and Reconnecting

  “If I go find a person from back in those days where I was still half baked, am I going to have to go, ah, all right, let me bring you up to speed?”
  — Ted (33:59)

• On the Health Risks of Loneliness

  “Loneliness isn't just sad. It’s like 50% increased risk of dementia, 38% risk increase of heart disease… the list goes on and on. It’s staggering.”
  — Andrew (35:08)

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Key Segments & Timestamps

• 02:00-12:20 – The origins of Andrew’s new book; childhood/family backgrounds; struggles with friendship and male connection.
• 14:07-16:14 – Andrew describes stumbling into writing and travel post-fame.
• 15:10-16:29 – Rehab, the solace of 'Cheers,' and deciding to walk the Camino de Santiago.
• 19:22-21:25 – Revelatory Camino moment: Discovery of self and conquering fear.
• 22:22-25:03 – Stage fright, handling fear as an actor, and the power of vulnerability in art.
• 28:20-37:50 – The triggering conversation with his son about not seeing friends; Andrew’s road trip to reconnect; approaching and interviewing men about friendship.
• 35:08-36:39 – Health dangers of loneliness and the slow, creeping loss of community (with examples from Andrew's mother’s life).
• 40:31-44:17 – Andrew’s Hollywood memories: support from Jacqueline Bisset, imposter syndrome at the Paramount anniversary, and Henry Winkler’s kindness.
• 45:37-48:06 – Experiences with director Joel Schumacher; navigating Hollywood’s power dynamics.
• 48:47-49:21 – Impact of drinking on Andrew’s career; how sobriety eventually led to rebuilding his life and outlook.
• 52:15-56:37 – On “providing,” self-worth, and why men open up differently with other men versus family.
• 59:05-63:27 – Directing experiences, lessons in loyalty and business, the realities of freelance creative work.
• 63:27-64:42 – Acting as a lifelong thread for growth and understanding, the absence of linear career planning.
• 65:05-70:01 – Reflecting on getting older, the changes in motivation, learning to accept and grow from imperfection.

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Final Reflections

• Andrew’s North Star: Complicated—he admits his “feel job” approach to decisions and a current liminal phase in life as he returns to acting.
• Ted’s Philosophy: Acknowledges fear and impostor syndrome but remains grateful for his “step-ladder” career and finds meaning in continuing to work and connect, especially through vulnerable, honest conversations like this one.

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Episode Tone

Candid, supportive, quietly humorous, self-aware. Ted’s gentle curiosity and Andrew’s openness make for a deeply engaging, often vulnerable discussion about the realities of adult male friendship, overcoming loneliness, and the honest trajectory of creative life.

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Further Reading & Listening

• Andrew McCarthy’s Book: Who Needs Friends?
• Andrew McCarthy’s Documentary: Bratz (on the Brat Pack)
• Recent Projects: Ted recommends following Andrew’s acting/creative work, noting he’s eager to see what comes next.

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Standout Closing Quote

“You have to be out around people sharing who you are because you are that cracked whatever vase or whatever... this is worth sharing. It really is.”
— Ted Danson, (70:01)

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For those who missed the episode, this summary encapsulates the spirit and substance of a conversation about what it means to grow up, stay connected, and remain open to life’s next chapter.

Transcript

[A]

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[D]

I did Pretty in Pink after that and that really gave me a career. Then I started being able to have sex with people.

[A]

Welcome back to where everybody knows your name. Today I'm talking to the gifted actor, director and writer Andrew McCarthy. You know him from films like Pretty in Pink, St. Elmo's Fire, Weekend at Bernie's. He also is the author of a timely new book exploring male friendship and loneliness called who needs friends? Meet a man of many talents, Andrew McCarthy.

[D]

Of all the people that I've ever met, my daughter was so excited I was meeting you because the good place.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[D]

Oh my God, she was so excited.

[B]

So wait, how old is she?

[D]

She's 19 now, but she saw it

[B]

when she was a younger daughter.

[D]

Yeah, but like she's watched the whole series over and over again and like

[B]

it's like Big Mike Shore, who did Arrest the writer, creator.

[D]

Uhhuh.

[B]

Arrested Development, Parks and Rec, all these amazing things. Really wrote an amazing show because it's about ethics. It's about purposeful living wrapped in a nine year old fart sense of humor and with special effects. Yeah, it was kind of brilliant.

[D]

It was great.

[B]

Well, say hi to her and thank her.

[D]

I will. And she knows she has very good taste.

[B]

So nice.

[A]

She does.

[D]

She has nice judgment because there are other people. Like dad. No. Guys. No, he's mid. He's mid. You know, mid. Mid is. Or you know, just lame. But anyhow.

[B]

Oh Lordy kids. Humbling.

[D]

Yeah. Do you have. How many you have?

[B]

We have four. I had two girls, and Mary had a girl and a boy, and we got together when I was 45 and she was 40, and now we have them and five grandchildren. Yeah. It really is like 12 to table when we sit down.

[D]

Nice.

[B]

Yeah, it really is nice. And we just had that moment with most of our kids yesterday. Easter. Yeah. You just got off an airplane.

[D]

I did, yeah. I just came. We had that Easter yesterday, but there are only five of us there. I have three kids. Yeah. I just got off the plane from New York.

[B]

Thank you for doing this. Your conversation that you are having, going around talking about your book, who Needs Friends? Is a conversation I absolutely love. I've listened to a couple of interviews that you've had about it, so I hope I'm not covering the same ground. But this whole idea of building a sense of community has become, I think, so important in our world today. And that is, in a way, one of the side effects of what you were doing and your.

[D]

Well, that's all about what it's about.

[B]

Yeah, you said it's not.

[D]

It is. That's entirely what it's about. And that sense of connection. But, I mean, I'm a guy that's very often disconnected. So when I told my wife I was writing a book about friendship, she looked at me and said, are you fucking kidding me? You. And I said, who better to write the book? Because I'm someone who's very. Not connected in many ways, and I am very. I'm very happy in my own company and very sort of. I can. My solitude can veer over into isolation very quickly. But so I thought the idea of connection, I mean, I'm aware. Because I skirt around the edges of it. I'm aware how important it is, you know, And I realize I'm a better person when I have it, but I often do without it.

[B]

See, when you described yourself, you're describing me in many ways.

[D]

Really?

[B]

Because the most. Yeah, I mean, I.

[D]

You seem so gregarious and outgoing.

[B]

I am. But there's gregarious that slaps you on the back, goes Andrew. Man, I love your work. Da da da da let's get together Da da da da da I can be as surfacey as anyone in Hollywood or mean it, you know, because we just worked together and it was the best time ever. And let's make sure we get together and you don't. I mean, our jobs sometimes lead to that. Unless you're Woody Harrelson. Who's not here today. As you can see, he's here sometimes.

[D]

Sometimes.

[B]

He is an example of somebody who makes friends all over the world for real and stays in touch. And they flock to him wherever he is, shooting in whatever part of the world he does.

[D]

That personality doesn't. He's just very attractive and winning and just. You just sort of feel safe and fun and like, yeah, let's hang, dude.

[B]

And you light up, so why not? That helps. Yeah, But I was the guy who always was like, yeah, no, no, that sounds great. I'll catch up with you. Don't wait for me. And never, ever, ever did.

[D]

It's me. I'll catch up. Don't wait. Yeah.

[B]

Also, I'm the person who feels like it's very nice to be with a guy. It's relaxing, it's lovely. But it's beside the point. Women truly is where the point is. And that's probably because of how I was raised. My mother made more sense to me than my father did, logically, kind of emotionally. And I'm married to this astounding human being that I didn't find until I was 45. So I do rush home to her because I enjoy being with her. Do I still fall into a lonely man? Yeah.

[D]

No, but that's a really interesting thing, that notion of. Well, it's kind of beside the point, like, yeah, friends with the guy. Okay, yeah, that's fun. But that's really interesting. I'd never heard it put so. Or tick. I'm very much the same way. It's like. But that tells you where your psyche has been the whole time. And so it's really interesting that I always felt safer with women. I felt on maybe exactly. Because I was very afraid of my father when I was growing up. So I was. I. You know, I felt very close to my mother in this sort of secret way. So I understood quickly how to deal with women. And I had three brothers. So, I mean, I was around guys all the time. But. And it's interesting, most of my guys, my brother. My older brother Peter, was my protector. And so when I went out into the world and we sort of drifted apart through life and things happening and just getting our own lives, all my friends, particularly even the guys I talk about in this book, were physically larger than me and slightly older than me and had the same quality of protection. You know, people. When I was doing this book, I asked a lot of people what the one word they would say for friendship was. And most people said trust. And someone asked me Finally I said safety, a feeling of safety which encompasses trust. But it's something more than trust. It's just like you're looked after.

[B]

God, I hadn't thought of that. But I feel the same way. I mean, my sense of humor came from finding the bully on the playground and making that bully laugh. And then I was the funny guy, so you didn't get punched. So it was about safety a lot.

[D]

But you were also physically big the whole time. You were very, weren't you?

[B]

I made big guys and bullies nervous. Not because I was a threat, because I was 6 foot and 120 pounds. They were afraid if they hit me, I would shatter into million pieces.

[D]

Because I was very little physically. And I always felt very physically small and frail. I mean, I guess at some point it stopped being an issue. But when I was young, I always felt very, very insignificant physically. So. But I also felt that way emotionally too. This whole sense of when I was doing this road trip, it brought up this whole notion of like, what is manhood? You know, having. The book's about male friendship. And so then it was, well, what is the idea of manhood? And it kicked up my whole thing in me where I always felt for years and years, sort of that I was insignificant in the sense of manhood. I wasn't. You know, manhood in America has become since John Wayne, I guess, since post World War II. It's become this sort of macho, carry your own water, be physically strong, emotionally self contained, carry your own water and just deal with it. And I made my living on being a sensitive young actor. So I was not that I was never going to be that macho, strong, hard guy. And so I always sort of went under it in a certain way and felt very. But inside I felt very not man enough, whatever that meant. And that stayed with me for decades, Decades.

[B]

Wow. So many. I should stop trying to, you know, make connections between us. But I felt very much the same way. I kind of picked my mother because my father wasn't really emotionally available. So his bluster didn't feel real because he was being surfacey about emotions. My mother was much. Made much more sense to me, but because of that, I was a little bit of her confidante.

[D]

That's exactly, dude, we have the same life. That's exactly what I was. I was afraid of my father because he had a volatile, he was very angry guy. And only on his deathbed did I come to realize that was all fear. But my dad used to tell me he loved me all the time, five times a day.

[B]

Oh, me too. My father wasn't angry so much, just emotionally unavailable. But go on, please. Sorry.

[D]

No, I wasn't trying to place, overlay them entirely. But my dad would tell me he loved me, but I thought as a small kid, like, well, how can that be? Because I'm terrified of you and you're yelling at me. If you're not telling me you love me, you're screaming at me. So I took that to me. Like, I just couldn't. I couldn't reconcile those two things. So it was just really. Anyway, so when I like my kids now, I tell my kids and they tell me, love each other. Like my father, who would say, I love you. I love you, pal. And I'd always have to say, I love you too, dad. But I just felt it was such hypocrisy because it's like, I don't. Because I'm terrified of you. I don't. I mean, I guess I love you. You're my father, but I was terrified of you. And. But like my kids, we say that all the time. And recently my son said, love you, dad, and he ran out the door and. And I heard him telling his friend as he was going on, yeah, I tell him I love him in case he dies before I get back.

[B]

It's a good policy.

[D]

Good policy.

[B]

Yeah. I have to be careful. Cause for me, it can almost be like punctuation in a sentence.

[D]

It is.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

But look, you know, there's worse punctuation.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

You know, yeah. Cause it's also true, you know, particularly kids and whatever, they can feel the authenticity, even if it's a bit rote. They know that's true. Just checking that box. And that box is legit and authentic and real.

[B]

Let's back up because I've been reading the last two or three days stuff that you've written about you. And so we know you as an actor. We'll go back to that. But when did the writing start and how. Because this is an amazing book and it's a great conversation, but it's not Andrew the movie star, all of a sudden deciding to write a book you've been writing for a very long time.

[D]

I have, Yeah. I started as. I started writing 25 years ago because I, you know, Tao Long's a piece of string. But I. I began as a travel writer. I started writing about travel because travel changed my life. I felt travel was like this, you know, I've drunk the travel Kool Aid. I felt travel was not about bucket Lists and, you know, Instagram posts, but about something that real and powerful and can change your life because it changed mine. After I was done being sort of a young movie star in my early 20s, and then I was just sort of caught in the backwash of that, I started traveling the world alone. And I found the further from home I got, the more at home in myself I felt. And then one day I was in Saigon and I had a great day, and I just picked up a piece of paper in my hotel room and I wrote down what happened. And I realized at the end of it, it wasn't a journal entry, it was a story I'd written. And I felt the same way when I did that, that I felt when I first started acting at 15 years old in my high school play. My wife is Irish. She has this good ir. One of them is. I felt like myself from the toes up. And I felt like that when I was 15 when I walked on stage as the Artful Dodger, you know. And I felt the exact same way 15 years later when I wrote that story in Saigon. And I thought, oh, there I am. You know, and so I just. So I just kept doing that. I kept traveling, I kept writing these things, and I had no intention with any of it until for years. And then one day I did, and I met an editor, and I browbeat him into letting me write a story. And then I wrote for magazines and worked at National Geographic Traveler for years. And then the book started, and then, you know, here we are. But it was also something I could do myself. I didn't have to wait to be given a permission to do it.

[B]

And did you know you were a good writer in school? Was that.

[D]

No, he's a terrible writer. I never wrote anything. I never read any of my. Never read anything. Never wrote anything in school. It was terrible. I was very interested in pot, to me. And Woody would probably get on well. But. And. But. So I never wrote anything until that day, literally, in Saigon. I picked up a pen and wrote this story down. And I just, you know, but that was like a new. Because I hadn't written in so long. Like, I hadn't written anything since high school when I was forced to. And somewhere in that intervening 15 years, something had happened inside me.

[B]

Did you save those early writings?

[D]

Yeah, I published that one. Won an award. And I've saved all those. Saigon, yeah. This thing in Saigon. Yeah. And I've saved. I used to get those little moleskin pads. I still do. And, you know, that's a good travel Writer does those little pads. And I just fill them up and fill them up and fill them up. Yeah.

[B]

And was this before or when did. Is it Camino del Santiago?

[D]

Camino Santiago. That's what started me traveling to put this all piecemeal. I was. Oh, can I just back up for one second and say one thing? This is.

[B]

This is my podcast. It's called the Ramble.

[D]

And this will lead right into the Camino, because I owe you a great, great debt, which you don't know. In 1992, I was in an alcohol rehab in Minnesota, and I was all played. I was 29 years old and I was just done. I made a mess of everything. And I was in this rehab and what we're. And they were trying to get us all to kind of bond as a unit and be all kind of. But none of us liked each other. We were all disparate people. There was no way this was gonna be unit. But one of the guys then discovered at 7 o' clock at night that Cheers was on every night at 7 o' clock on the rerun. And so we would all. After the counselors all went home, we would gather around and watch Cheers. And we would sit there and count people's drinks and talk about how you made the drinks. And that's not. He's got a heavy hand. He doesn't. So we totally bonded over the alcoholic part of Cheers. And so it became this goosey so. And that changed my life. And, you know, I haven't had a drink since. And so I owe you a great.

[B]

So well done. May I say well done?

[D]

Yeah. Oh, well, sure. Thank you. But soon after that, I walked across Spain on the Camino de Santiago, which is this ancient pilgrimage route 500 miles across Spain. Cause I was sort of looking for myself, I guess.

[B]

But how did that. I mean, that's not just something I need to find myself. I'll go take a walk. How did you know to do that, though? How did that even come into your sight?

[D]

Well, because I was in a bookstore. It was always bookstore on West Broadway. And just killing time. Cause I'm an actor, so I'm unemployed most of the time. So I was just killing in the afternoon and I was in a bookstore and I was looking at. I was at the new arrivals table and just sort of hanging around. But I was really looking at this beautiful girl. Like I'm looking across at you. I was looking at this beautiful woman across the table and just staring at her. Eventually, she felt the eyes of, you know, some pervert upon her. And she looked up and caught me. And instead of giving her my best Pretty in Pink, hi. You know, I just panicked.

[B]

It's working on me, by the way.

[D]

I just panicked. And I just picked up this book. Literally, I just picked up the book in front of me, went, oh, there it is. And I went running to the checkout counter. And so I would run, and I'm in just like, a flopped, and I'm so flustered, and just like, I. So I just buy this book. I walk out on the street and I see that it's this book about a guy who walked across the Camino de Santiago, called off the Road. And I said, who cares? And so I took it home, threw it on a shelf, and a few weeks later, I was coming out to LA for something, and I needed a book to read on the plane. And so I picked up the book and I read it on the plane out. And by the time I landed in la, I said, I'm going to do that. I'm walking across Spain like this guy did. And, you know, this being the very early 90s, there was no Internet, right? The only one on the Internet was Al Gore. And so I. In the back of the book, it said that Jack Hitt, the guy who wrote it, worked at Harper's Magazine, and I'd never heard of the Camino de Santiago. I didn't know anybody. So the only one I knew was this guy who wrote the book. So I called up Harper's Magazine and said, hey, can I talk to Jack Hitt? I went, hold on. This guy gets on the phone, hey, Jack Hitt. I went, hi, Jack. Listen, you don't know me, but I read your book. And he was like, you've read my book? He was thrilled, right? Know the feeling. Anyway, so he told me all about it. And so I went to Spain and walked across Spain.

[B]

What does that mean? That means you have a backpack.

[D]

Means you have a backpack.

[B]

You have some food?

[D]

No, but change of clothes. It's not like walking the Appalachian Trail or something where you're out there on your own. There are towns you walk town to town, village to village. It began because in the 8th century, the Catholic Church said the bones of the apostle St. James have been found in the farther and westernmost reach of the Iberian Peninsula. And anybody who walks there gets half their time in purgatory knocked off. And. But what it was really about was real estate, because Islam had taken over Spain and the Catholic Church wanted it back. So they said, while you're marching across Spain, to get your almighty soul purged and get your time in Purgatory knocked off. Kick out the damn Moors. So it was really about the Crusades and all this kind of stuff.

[B]

Real estate.

[D]

Yeah. So little towns sprung up along the way, and so I would sleep in a town each night along the way.

[B]

Very cool. How long did it take?

[D]

About a month.

[B]

Physically, not an issue. Easy.

[D]

Physically, it's fine.

[B]

Wow. I was just so.

[D]

I did it recently, a few years ago, with my son, I did it again. Yeah, but. Excuse me, but what? No, I did have a sort of white light experience which changed my life. While I was doing that, the first time I was walking, I was halfway across and I was hating it. I hated it every day. It was awful. Every day was worse than the day before. I was lonely. I was miserable. It was just, what am I doing? What's the point? I hate this. And I suddenly was on my knees sobbing in a field of wheat and had this sort of temper tantrum. And I finally, as I settled down, finally, was snot running down my nose, you know, and just having this after this tantrum, I suddenly felt like I did when I was 15 years old when I walked out on stage as the Artful Dodger. I just felt like myself in a very real way. And I realized. And I felt very light. And I realized in that instant I didn't have something that I'd always had, and I just didn't have any fear around me suddenly. And I'd realized in that instant what a fearful person I'd always been. I never knew I was fearful until that moment of its first absence. You know what I mean? When I felt like myself. And so. And the other time I'd had it before, that was when I walked out on stage as the Artful Dodger. I went, oh, there I am. I was fully taking up space and the same way in that field. So that's what led me to keep traveling. I thought this happened while I was traveling. I'm gonna keep traveling. And so I kept traveling the world. And that led to the writing in Saigon, which led to books, which led to me sitting here.

[B]

Fear. Another thing. Woody Harrelson once took me aside. I was going to get a divorce, and I was all scared, and I was all this. He said, teddy, Teddy, why are you so fearful? And I never thought of myself as fearful. And it was like, oh, my God, I really am. I mean, to this day, I have to say to myself, when I feel fear, it's like, you know what? Shut the fuck up. Or die. Go ahead, just die. It's like, oh, oh, all right. I have to ground myself to that level to not experience some degree of fearfulness.

[D]

Fear has been such a dominant thing in my. And we do this living, what we do for a living makes it seem like, oh, how can you be afraid? You go out there in front of me, you know? But, yeah, fear has influenced so many. I think so many people are dominated by fear and don't know it, but they don't want to admit it either, because that admits weakness. And one thing a man can't be is weak. So you don't want to admit fear.

[B]

John Wayne was scared shitless. Let's just tell the truth.

[D]

Right?

[B]

Right.

[D]

And I just did a play for the first time in 20 years, and I finished last week, and they asked me if I wanted to do this play, and it was in Dublin, and they said, do you want to do. It was the Crucible. The Arthur Millpole. You want to do the Crucible? And I went, no. And I went, whoa, that was a quick no, wasn't it? I guess I'm really scared to go do this. I better say yes. And so I went and did it. And I have to tell you, I really regretted it. I was terrified every. But it was a great thing for me personally, to walk through. Great thing, personally.

[B]

This is why I'm doing this. One of the many reasons, but one of the big ones is it scares the shit out of me.

[D]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

It's so interesting because I say when I talk about fear to people, they go, I'm surprised to hear you say that. And I'm like, really? It seems what. I feel like that's what I lead with. And when I look at you, I'm like, really? But of course, how could. Why shouldn't it be? But you inhabit yourself in the world so gracefully. So it's an interesting thing. There's a certain level that we can operate on, and how close to it fear gets, that lid. How close to the lid the fear gets is the degree to which anxiety and stress.

[B]

I got stressed out just reading about. Or. No, you were talking to Rob Lowe about your play experience. And was it this play that you just did, or one play where you went in and you went up?

[D]

Oh, no, this play. The first night I went out on stage and I went up. And in the second, the three, maybe three seconds went what seems like 25 years. And I think, oh, my God, it's happening. It's happening. I'm gonna have to stop the show. And Humiliate myself and humiliate my family. My wife will never be out to go. It was this crazy. And I just looked around to the people around me with that look of, please help me. Please help me. And luckily, I had not been mean to them in rehearsal, so they did. But, you know, and in that moment, I thought, I'll never do this again. No matter how good this ever might get, I'm never, ever gonna do this again. This is awful. And, yeah, so. And that's why for 20 years, I didn't do a play. But what was even worse than that night was the second night because, oh, my God, if I go up a second time, then I'm. Then I'm just setting up the pattern. So I had to. I was literally in my dressing room sobbing on the phone to my wife, going, how could you have let me do this? This is your fault. What am I? You know? And she's just like, just breathe. Breathe in. Five, out seven. Talking to me like I'm a complete idiot. But it was amazing how fear just swells up inside.

[B]

But also, if you get past it and you do it, there's something that you can't act, which is vul. And that vulnerability and courage of stepping out with the fear and conquering, that is a palpable thing, I think, in a performance.

[D]

That was a fantastic thing, you know, and it was a great experience, ultimately, you know, Great experience. Would I do it again? You know, maybe. Maybe it's like pregnancy and you forget the pain, but I might go back to it again, But I was certainly glad to do it, that I have done it.

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[B]

Okay, so writing, writing, writing. Now you decide to go out on the road because your son. I'm sorry? Because your son said, dad, you don't tell me that.

[D]

Yeah, I was sitting at the kitchen table with Sam, my son. He was about 21, I think, at the time, and he was telling me a funny story about one of his buds. And when he was finished, he just kind of looked up and said, you don't really have any friends, do you, dad? And I took the hit and I said, well, there's more to my life than my children are aware. And I said, yes, Sam, I have friends. I just don't see them, but I know they're there, and that's enough. And he kind of went, okay, whatever. And he left. And I sat with that for. And it kept coming back to me. And I thought, you know what? It's not enough. I need to go see these guys. Because I, like many people, just to back up, has had. When I first left home at 17, went to New York, and I've met this group of several guys who are like my. As we call them now, chosen family. Right? They were the people that I hung with, that I learned from that. I became their large boys who came

[B]

down bars as an actor or.

[D]

Yeah, no, no. Just drinking in bars, really. And they were just my. Cause only one of them is an actor. And. And we just became. They were my guys. And through life and careers and whatever, they all moved out of the city. And I hadn't seen any of them in years, some in decades. But they're largely responsible for me becoming who I become in a very real way, you know? Cause those foundational relationships that happen just as we're cusping in life are so important, right? And so I thought, I need to go back and see them. And so I did. I started. I drove, and I hate driving, and I hate driving on the freeways and things. So I drove back roads and. And I'm a travel writer, so I thought, oh, that'll be interesting. So I drove 10,000 miles across the country to go see these guys. But what was more interesting to me even than that, which was fantastic and a wonderful experience, was I stopped and started talking to guys along the way, just random guys.

[B]

I would approach Tim, boy, break that down for me. You're driving along, you pull into town and you go, hmm, how does that happen?

[D]

I stop and I get. Well, the first one, I stopped in Philadelphia and I wanted to get a cup of coffee. And so I'm in line at the coffee thing, and this me and this guy just started chatting. And I said, I'm on my way to see a friend of mine. Haven't seen him in years. I'm going down to see him. That's an important thing to do. That's a good thing to do. And he goes, yeah, I should do that with my friends. And anyway, we just started talking. And then. So the conversation started, and then it happened again somewhere. I just, you know, mentioned I was going somewhere and to see friends, and then it became an act, and I Thought, this is interesting. And so I actively then would go

[B]

approach, knowing you might write a book or would you?

[D]

Well, by the time I got to West Virginia, I thought, oh, there's a book in here.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

You know, and so I'm always thinking that, particularly when I'm travel writing, I'm always thinking this. Maybe I'm. So I'm taking notes, thinking there's. So there's a story in here somewhere. I don't know often maybe there isn't, but I just take little notes when I go. And. But then it started to be that I started talking to these guys and a theme started to emerge of certain attributes. And, you know, and I'm going to see my friends and there are men who are telling me they don't have friends. They're like me. They haven't seen their friends. And, you know, because invariably people would say, oh, that's a great thing. I should do that with my friends so many times, you know, and so it just evolved and it grew into this. Me then approaching dozens and dozens of dozens of men just sort of anywhere in bars and on gas stations and anywhere, and ask them, can I talk to you about your friends? And invariably they look at me like, dude, you know, but then I said, no, no, no, anyway. But not one man said no to me.

[B]

Is that how many recognize you, Andrew?

[D]

Not many, because I'm in these rando places in Mississippi, you know, I mean, you know, some people go, you look familiar, honey. And

[B]

that was the way to get honey, right?

[D]

Yeah, that's a different story. Yeah. No, so I'd get. But some people would. But they didn't really care, you know, it was very out of context, too. I wasn't walking down Hollywood Boulevard or something where, you know, people were looking for, you know, looking for Ted Danson or something. You know what I mean? I was just some guy. And mostly it was the you look familiar thing. And if anything, more people didn't really particularly care because I was also talking about something completely other. And guys are less likely to. But my audience would be. If it were women of a certain age, they would have seen Pretty in Pink and whatever, and they would have known me much more than the guys would. Guys wouldn't really notice.

[B]

So anyway, you've accomplished your mission, and I think the book will too, because I'm sitting here going, why don't I? And I just thought back to a moment. Height of cheers. Went back to the prep school. I went to school in Connecticut. And it was. Because it was the height of Cheer. It was the first big reunion or something and I was a rock star for the first afternoon, evening, the next day, people had gotten over it and I was Ted, 13 year old Ted again. And I found myself walking behind by myself, this group of guys and girls laughing and talking and reminiscing. And I was 15, 20 yards by myself behind them and I had this flash of going, oh, I had to become famous to give me the right to walk in the door, any door. And it's like, wow, so insecure, so afraid of. So part of my brain goes. Because I, for a long time, I don't think I do anymore, kind of compartmentalized my life because I was half baked or I hadn't, or I was going through a period of lying in my life or I was getting a divorce, something where I was half baked. Now I don't feel that way. I feel integrated and all of that stuff because mostly of Mary and the work I did before I met her. But if I go find a person from back in those days where I was still half baked, am I going to have to go, ah, all right, let me bring you up to speed. I'm. I'm not that 13 year old Ted. I'm this Ted.

[D]

They probably saw the real Ted and not that part of Ted because that's not the real Ted. That's the insecure, whatever that we all have. Right. But I found with my friends, I didn't catch up. I picked up, you know what I mean?

[B]

I have those friends. Yes. Where you just pick up and they're wonderful and relaxing.

[D]

That's. Yeah. And that's what my experience was with these guys. I mean, I wasn't going to recognize every relationship I ever had. It was just these kind of, these several guys who were meaningful in my life.

[B]

It's such a valuable conversation, I think because we're now at a period where technology just makes us isolated. The conversation about creating community and the

[D]

health benefits and the, the health benefits is staggering. When I started to do the research and I saw all the problems that come from loneliness, it's staggering. Like the physical manifestation, I always used to think, oh, loneliness though, it's just sad. But no, it's like 50% increased risk of dementia, 38% risk increase of heart disease. And the list goes on and on and on. It's staggering. The physical manifestations of it. I saw it with my mom once she retired. She just fell off a cliff and I just saw her isolating and then getting sick. And then it was just because her World just got smaller and smaller. One of the other reason I went on this trip, which I didn't know, I sort of remembered halfway through, kind of because it stuck in my head again with my wife. After one more time of me saying, you know, no, I don't want to go out to whatever event she wanted me to go with with her, she just turned to me and said, you know, your world is getting smaller. And she may have said it with love, but she didn't say with much, back off, you know? And I was like, I heard that. And that's true, because, like I say, I'm a guy who loves. I'm very content to my own company, and I think I'm great company to myself, you know, And I don't give myself too much of a hard time about it, but I crossed that invisible line of isolation. And, yeah, it's not good for any of us.

[B]

Wow. The acting light bulb hit. You doing Oliver, right? And your dad, your mom? Totally. How old were you?

[D]

15. Like in high school, like 9th or 10th grade? Yeah. No, I knew it was an important thing that happened in my life because I didn't tell anybody I knew. Like, it's like that little image I use, the little candle, little light had been lit, and anybody walking by could have just gone, blown it out. You know what I mean? So I didn't tell anybody that. I just thought, yeah, it was cool. Yeah, it was fun. Which became my go to sort of posture out in the world when I started to become successful with this sort of aloof, kind of disinterested kind of fun. Yes. No, it's great. It's cool. Yeah. When I was terrified and thrilled at the same time. In equal measure. But so anyway, so by the time I went to college, was going to college a few years later, I said, nyu. Well, yeah, but as I was applying, I said, I want to go to college for acting. And my father said, no son of mine is going to be a fucking thespian. And so I realized, oh, you were right not to say anything a few years ago. But by that point, several years later, that little flame had grown to be like, I'm doing whatever I want. I don't care what anybody says. That's what I'm doing. And it was the only college I got into, so they let me go.

[B]

Wow. So off you go.

[D]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Where do you live? In one of the dorms?

[D]

No, I couldn't get in a dorm because we lived too close to the city. So I got an apartment. And those are the days you used to knock on. Walk around just knocking on doors. And that's how you got. Apart from what year? 1980. So the city was just coming out of bankruptcy. It was fantastic in New York then, and terrifying, but fantastic city. And. Yeah. And so I had a little one bedroom off Washington Square park that I was $725, which was way too much money, so I had to get a roommate, and he slept in the bedroom, and I slept in the living room. And. Yeah. And so I went to NYU for two years, and then I got kicked out, so. Because I didn't go.

[B]

But why? Because. Was this not Tisch or was it.

[D]

Yeah, I was in Tisch. I was in the undergraduate drama department. So you'd go to acting three days a week and two days a week you'd have regular school. And I just didn't go to the regular school. Yeah, it didn't interest me at all.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

So that kicked me out. And so. Yeah. But then while I was worrying about how am I going to tell my parents this, literally, there's an ad in Backstage magazine. Remember Backstage magazine? Unemployed actors kind of thing. And they had auditions on it. And a friend of mine called me up and said, look, they're looking. There's an audition for a movie. They're looking for someone 18, vulnerable and sensitive to be this lead in the movie Open Call. And I was like, dude, that's me, 18, vulnerable. I got this. So I went up to the Ansonian Hotel with. And there were 500 other 18 vulnerable and sensitive kids right. On 73rd and Broadway. And so, yeah, I went there and I waited for hours with all these other 18 vulnerable, insensitive kids in the hallway, just sitting slumped against the wall in the hallway. And you'd inch your way down the hall, right? And eventually I walked in and I gave the person my picture. I'd just gotten a headshot done because a friend of mine wanted to be a photographer. So he took my picture. And then I had done one play for a weekend, and the guy, the casting director, looked at David Rubin, who looked at it, and he said, you spelled the author's name wrong. I was like, oh, okay, sorry. Anyway, so he said, why don't you come to the office tomorrow? And so I did. And 10 auditions later, I was the lead in the movie playing Jacqueline Bissett's young lover in a movie called Class. So it was like winning the lottery.

[B]

Yeah. Truly was.

[D]

It was incredible.

[B]

Yeah, she was everybody's astounding, you know, on a pedestal of beauty, she was Just amazing.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

They even did a Cheers episode where Sam Malone made a bet that he could get Jacqueline Beset to come in and go out with him. It didn't work.

[D]

Didn't work out.

[B]

But he found someone who was legally named Jacqueline Bessette anyway. You know, what a great beauty.

[D]

She's a wonderful person, too. Wonderful. She was wonderful. She was so kind to me.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

She put you up. Yeah, she did. After. Right at the end, you know, she said, andrew, what are you doing after the film? And I was like, oh, you have to go get an agent, Jackie. You know, because I was. I didn't have it. I didn't know anything, so I have to come out to Los Angeles. And she said, you know, where are you staying? And I go, I don't know. She goes, well, you stay with me. I'm like, okay.

[B]

After shooting.

[D]

Yeah. And she was living with Alexander Goudinov, the Russian ballet guy. Remember that? And so I went and I lived at Jackie's house with her in Alexander for like six weeks when I was there. And Jackie used to drive me to my auditions in my. Go to meetings.

[B]

What a sweet lady.

[D]

Oh, my God. She'd have her big Cadillac, big Cadillac convertible. And I remember I was at meeting some agent or casting for someone early on, and the guy says, how you getting around down, kid. I go, oh, Jackie's driving. Jackie, Jacqueline. This is.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

And she's. Yeah, she's waiting outside. So where. And so we got up, we went and looked out the window, and Jackie is sitting at the curb in her convertible just waiting for me. And his jaw dropped. Yeah.

[B]

Was this before the movie came out?

[D]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Perfect.

[C]

How wonderful.

[D]

It was great. And it was the most wondrous time, though. She was so kind to me. And like, she used to have these amazing dinner parties, these giant. Oh, there's Louis Malin, all these incredible, interesting people. And I'm like, pass the salt, Candace, would you? You know, there's Candice Bergen over there. And it was just great. And they were. It was amazing. I should have quit show business right then because it was the most wondrous kind of innocent time.

[B]

Candice Bergen's become a great, great friend of ours.

[D]

Oh, really?

[B]

Because Mary worked with her several times and what a. I only knew her

[D]

as a dinner companion.

[B]

Yes.

[D]

40 odd years ago, Roddy McDowell used

[B]

to have those dinners where you'd be sitting next to Gregory Peck and, you know.

[D]

Yeah, yeah. Those people are wonderful about that. Those sort of Hollywood people that just embrace all that. I just. Were you Ever. You, you're comfortable in that world, are you?

[B]

I am now. I think I'm old enough also. And. And I've reached the Mr. Danson stage. You know, people will at a certain point call you, you know, anyway, because

[D]

I was never comfortable in that. I was never comfortable in that kind of.

[B]

Well, I wasn't. I mean, I'd have a shit eating grin on my face most of the time. But I was with Mary too, and she has. She's very sincere, so it calms me down to be around her in public. But now I'm fine talking to people and going up to them and I feel like I've earned the right to be able to tell them how much I enjoy their work or sit down

[A]

and talk with them.

[D]

It's great. The only person I ever met that I felt I was invited to the 75th anniversary thing at Paramount Studios. So this is 86 or so, and Pretty in Pink had just come out and that was a Paramount movie. And they had one year.

[B]

I was there.

[D]

You were there. Cause you're in the picture. Yeah, you are there.

[B]

And Annie Leibowitz took the photo.

[D]

I don't remember who took the photo, but it's this giant 75th anniversary in Paramount where they invited everybody. Yeah, of course you would have been there. And there's an amazing picture and Liz Taylor's there and everybody. Gregory Peck and all these, you know, and. But. And I was so hungover. This is back when I was still drinking because they flew me out like the night before. Obviously somebody canceled, so they invited me at the last second. So I said, sure, I'll go.

[B]

You don't know that.

[D]

Well, it's like two days before they called me. So anyway, and so I said, okay, I'll go. And. But I was so nervous and felt like such a fraud that I go, what am I doing here with Robert De Niro and all these people? And so I got so drunk, I was so hungover it. I was terrified. And I just sat in the corner the whole time and find the publicist. They're trying to get me out and talk to people. And I'm. Well, I'd like to meet Jimmy Stewart. So they took me over to Jimmy Stewart.

[B]

Oh, I'm jealous now.

[D]

And I said, Mr. Stewart, it's not really a pleasure to meet you, sir. And he goes, my pleasure, young man. And that was it. And I go, okay. And I walked away and. But then thank God for Henry Winkler. He saved my life. Because they dragged everybody out to have their picture taken under the archer under the big thing. Right. And so Henry just grabbed me by the elbow and just propped me up and stood me right next to him and held onto me. And I got a chance to thank him. Years later, he also did. No. He goes, I have no idea what you're talking about. I go, bo, but you were really important to me on that day.

[B]

He's always a lovely guy. He's a lovely man. Talk to him. A couple of weeks ago. It was very sweet. We share a director, Joel Schumacher.

[D]

Oh, Joel.

[B]

Yes, Joel. I kind of miss Joel. I did cousins with him and it was a pretty good movie. It was one of the better movies I was in and I have a fond memory of him. He did say to me once, though, and it rocked me to this day, probably he said, an artist can't have middle class mores. Morals. I am about as middle class mores as you can get. And I kept thinking, oh, dear, I'll never be an artist.

[D]

He did. Go ahead.

[B]

That's all.

[D]

He did something to me not entirely dissimilar. We were filming on the back lot somewhere where they're setting up. And this sort of.

[B]

St. Elmo's Fire.

[D]

Yes, St. Elm's Fire. We're doing St. Elmo's Fire. And he'd given me like I'd auditioned a couple years before for a movie called DC Cab that he directed. And it was. I desperately wanted this part and thank God I didn't get it. It was Mr. T vehicle that I never saw it actually, but I didn't get it. And I was heartbroken. And then he remembered me from that. So a couple years later, he asked me to come audition for Saint Elmer's Fire. And he fought to get me the part. And because I was brought out to Hollywood to kind of to the studio head to. To. To go talk to meet the studio person. Because I was not in any successful movies up to that point. So they wanted me. I had to go impress the studio head. And they sent a stretch limousine for me. They put me up at the Chateau Marmont and they drove me over the hill to Warner Brothers lot, which Columbia was sharing with them at the time. And I was brought into this exec and sat down. Joel was there. And I just sat there going back to my sort of aloof, kind of disinterest. I was so nervous and excited that I just was like, yeah, you know, it's a cool script. It's cool, it's cool. Couldn't have cared less. And the guy I just. And Joel's like, elbowing me to, you know, come on, impress. And I'm like, I just was incapable of chatting it up and being. You know. And I remember then Joel's assistant drove me home in his VW Bug. So I drove in the camp, arrived in the stretch, limb was driven home in a vw. And as I was driving home, back over the hill, that metaphor was not lost. I mean, I said to the assistant, oh, my God, I just blew it. I want this movie. And the assistant went back and. And told Joel how important it was. And Joel called me up and said, you jerk. You totally blew it. But then he went to bat and got me the movie. But anyway, so then we're working at dusk, and we take. Come on, take a walk with me. And Joel's so tall, the way he was. And he drapes his arm over me, and he says, and this comes out of nowhere. Like all great artists, you're very selfish. Okay, Joel, you're very, very selfish. And he just turned around and walked away, and that was the end of it. And that was our encounter on that, I think. And I never understood what it was, except it seemed designed to sort of take me down a notch.

[B]

I do believe that.

[D]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

I mean, I do believe that was part of his directorial style to knock you down a peg or something.

[D]

It was a weird one, that. And I. I was very. I always owe Joe because he gave me a career, but I. Because that's.

[B]

That was. That was huge. That was huge for you, and.

[D]

Oh, that gave me a career.

[B]

Everybody thought. Yeah.

[D]

Yeah. And then I did Pretty in Pink after that, and that really gave me a career. Then. Then. Then I started being able to have sex with people

[B]

then.

[D]

Up till then, you know, it's pretty meager. Yeah. That's all.

[B]

So you didn't stop drinking, if I may, until 92.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

So you had become huge famous.

[D]

Yeah. I mean, I. I stumped in 92. I was gonna play it out by then. Yeah. But, I mean, I always say I wouldn't. People always go, oh, you were too young, successful. That was too much for you. So you drank. I'm like, no, I. I would have drunk anyway. I just was able to afford better vodka.

[B]

But, you know, certainly functional

[D]

to a point. Well, when those kind of movies. That was early on. I was just starting to drink in those movies, but I certainly think it derailed my career entirely.

[B]

Really?

[D]

Yeah. Because not only the drinking, but then the years it took to recover from the drinking. You know, I was so clouded for years after, and by Then that moment had passed and I had no wherewithal what to do with that moment anyway. Had I not been drinking, not been a part of my life? I don't know that I had the wherewithal to sort of position myself. What's next and all that.

[B]

Anyway, I often think that my level of success. It sounds like I planned it this way. I didn't. And you never know what you planned and what just, you know, you were never going to be a massive movie star, Ted. You were going to be this kind of whatever. So you never quite know whether you had you designed it for yourself or not. But I couldn't deal with any more success than I have now. I couldn't have dealt with being shot out of a cannon, maybe like Pretty in Pink did for you. I have always been a little stepladdery kind of thing in my life. One step at a time. I think it.

[D]

That's really interesting. Well, and you have obviously achieved massive levels of success. But I remember doing Alec Baldwin's podcast or the first book I did, this is 12 years ago. And he had a podcast, or before his podcast really, a radio show on NPR called Here's the Thing or something like that. Anyway, I was doing an interview at. Alec Baldwin was interviewing me. And he was a terrific interviewer because he did no preparation, but he was wildly curious. So he'd listen. He'd listened really well. And we were talking about early fame and me sort of my reactions to it. And he said, well, maybe he just didn't want it. And that hit me like a ton of bricks. I realized my temperament is ill suited for that kind of thing. I want to be treated special. I want to be treated given all that stuff. But my temperament is not suited for that kind of like. So when you're saying I'm successful as I could be or whatever. Is that what you said?

[B]

Yeah. Or as much as I could deal with.

[D]

As much as you could deal with. I think. I think now I could deal with a lot more than I have. But back then I had much more than I could deal with. And I think I recoiled from that. And that hung with me for years. And for years after I stopped drinking, I sort of soldered success and drinking onto each other. Imagine one was like a rock and there was a metal plate. I had this visual, this metal plate just sort of stuck onto it. And it took me years to sort of have that, have them separate. Cause they had nothing to do with each other.

[B]

Would it be fearful to be offered a big movie No, I don't.

[D]

No, I don't think I'd blink, you know, in the way I just like, fantastic, let's go. I mean I love.

[B]

Why not?

[D]

I love. Yeah, why not? I love to work where I learned how to work. When I was young, I didn't know how to work, but I learned how to work and I love working. And I place like all many of us, you know, I place myself by working. You know, it's one of the things I found on the road talking to people. All these men, you know, the degree to which we feel we're providing, quote unquote, is the degree to which we have self esteem and feel good about ourselves and the degree to which we don't, we feel we're falling short on that. Is this all sorts of things that manifestations anger and resentment, all sorts of stuff happens to men.

[B]

Sad but true.

[D]

Oh, every guy I talked to about, I said do you feel a need to provide? And every guy was like, yeah, of course, of course. And my wife is much more capable than me in so many ways and all that, but she, and she. You don't have to feel that way. And I'm like, I appreciate you saying that. I know you mean that. You don't understand. And it's like that's why I said in this book kind of it's like what I get from men is not better than what I get from women. It just hits differently, as my kids would say. It hits it, you know, when I tell a guy I feel this and they go like, of course, Andrew. Yeah, that's a no brainer. Of course I feel that way. And just having them sort of acknowledge that just takes the curse off that.

[B]

Yeah, I agree. Cause if I shared with family now because they're old enough kids and in laws and my son in law and my, you know, son in laws, I can share stuff I'm going through which I've shared with Mary, I'm not keeping but the level of yes, of course. Because probably also I couch some of it with Mary because I don't want to scare her or appear oh dear, I don't want to put her into oh, oh dear worry for me kind of thing. So I am much more explicit I think with guys and it's a shorthand and it's more. And I get comforted when they go, yeah, of course, of course you feel

[D]

that way and you do this with your kids.

[B]

Not my kids, more my son in laws.

[D]

Okay, but still, you know, I asked that because it's like When I wrote a book about this, but my son called Walking with Sam, where we walked the Camino together. And it's like I was trying to transition my relationship with him from being parent child to sort of adults. And, like, I couldn't model that because I didn't have a relationship with my father once I left home. So when you. When you said that about talking to family, I'm like, it's a really important thing to be able. So I will say to my son in certain ways, not totally now, but we're getting there. He's 24 now, where I'll just share that kind of thing. Yeah, I feel like I gotta find his name. I haven't gotten a call in a while, so I'm just a little stressed about it. Whatever. Whatever it happens to be. And he'll be able to hear that. And he's. Instead of feeling burdened by it, which is what my worry was always, he feels welcomed and included, and he can see me then and then. So if he sees me more, you know, he's seeing me as a human and not just as his father. And so to me, that's been a huge transition to actively try and cultivate. So when you was talking about with

[B]

your own family, I'm checking myself right now because there's not a thing that I don't share with Mary and not a thing that isn't duplicated or witnessed by her. And I'm not trying to clean up on aisle mistake here. That's the truth. And my kids know everything about me. Good, bad, ugly. But there's something sometimes about a guy duplicating you that is different than children or wife. Yeah, yeah, sure. And actually, once you get that kind of duplication, it lifts.

[D]

Something lifts a little bit, and it's just relief and it's just, you know. But this also doesn't even have to be verbal in that way. You know the cliche of guys going out and playing golf and you come back afterward. And my wife will go, how's. How's Rich's wife doing? I go, fine. And she just had the cancer operate. Oh, yeah. We didn't talk about it. She's like, what did you talk about? And I'm not a big golfer, but. And I just. Good shot. You know, there's something about just. Even the physical just sort of being in that. That is in a certain way, a relief.

[B]

Yes. And guys, I do. I don't think this is right or wrong. I do. Guys digest things a hell of a lot slower and sitting with something and not talking about it is not just avoidance. Sometimes it is part of the process. Not talking about it, but allowing it to sink in. For me, I'm so slow with my emotions. Mary's emotions are right there. I take the high road immediately. Everything's fine. No, it's good. I can spin it and contextualize whatever's going on so that I can feel happy and still feel joy. And then slowly but surely I'll let in the oh fuck.

[D]

You know, I go right to the oh fuck.

[B]

Really?

[D]

And then maybe, maybe it ekes up to like, oh, remember Joy? Yeah, yeah, Joy's good, you know.

[A]

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[B]

Okay, tell me about directing. You've done that. You've done that on some big shows.

[D]

I directed TV shows for a while. Yeah, I haven't done it yet.

[B]

Do you want to do it anymore?

[D]

Well, I loved Blacklist was. I did a lot of blacklist. I did a lot of Orange Is the New Black. I did a bunch of shows. I did about 100 hours of TV and I loved doing it. A couple things though, the culture changed and I was a bit middle aged white male and that suddenly became a less desirable quality. So there was that. But it's also a lot of the shows I was doing at the same time kind of stopped going. One thing I learned as a TV director is, and someone told me early on, I didn't listen to it, they said, do never be loyal. You get to as many shows as you can do. Like, you're not gonna get any more benefit out of doing 25 blacklists as you are as doing two. But I was like, oh, I love doing the show. I love working with that gang. I love working with people. Gen G. Cohn I love working on that show. And the agents are going, no, you've done three, that's enough. You don't need to do 20 of them because. And so I'm turning down all these new interesting shows because I wanted to be loyal and feel a part of something, particularly. I'm a freelancer, right? I've freelanced my whole life and so getting to be a part of something always feels good. But I should have spread the net wider constantly. But I've never been a good businessman. So I just went, no, I like it here, it's warm. I do a good job. I like the show, they like me. This is great, let's keep doing it. And so I can wear a groove into a rut. Pretty good.

[B]

What about fiction writing? Fiction?

[D]

Well, I wrote one novel. I wrote a young adult novel and.

[B]

Sorry. What I'm going for is why not write a screenplay and direct it and act it?

[D]

Why don't you? I have written a couple frankness. It's impossible to get people to read them. I can't put. I'm not the guy to push a rock up a hill. I'm not going to wait for an actor for two months to read it and then I just can't do it and then beg. I know how to work. I know how to be on the floor and go to work and I'll make it good or better than most people. But I can't go hat in hand to people. I just can't do it. Not. I'm not a salesman, so I can't. My dad was a salesman, so him trying to hustle people and get people on board and charming. I saw it, I was just like, I can't do it. But if I get, you know, like I said, I put myself up against anybody on the floor going to work, but I'm utter flop at trying to hustle.

[B]

Okay, you need to act again.

[D]

Yeah. No, you really do.

[B]

I would love to see you work again.

[D]

Thanks. Yeah, yeah. It was fun doing the playing, and it was fun to act, but I have to. It feels like coming home when I acted again, it feels like coming home to myself. And that was nice. I mean, that's why I did. You know, I didn't plan to become a TV director. I just sort of. I was acting on a show and the director who was coming in pulled out of the episode right before, and I was sitting with the producer and said, I'll direct it. And then he's like, yeah, okay, I'll bet you could. And so I did one, and it was success. You know, I came in quick.

[B]

Wait, what was it?

[D]

That was called Lipstick Jungle. And so. And you know, I'm like, you have been on a set for my whole life, so I know where the time is wasted. So it's fast. I was fast and decisive, and to be a good TV director, you need to be fast and decisive, and that's it. And if you have a good idea, you're Orson Welles. You know what I mean? If you can make a good transition, oh, my God, he's a genius. So. And I, you know, I enjoyed doing that. But like you mentioned, I have never had a plan. There's never been a plan. I just sort of. Then nobody's giving me a job. I'll make up for my own job now. Okay. And I liked writing. Okay, I'm gonna go write a book.

[B]

You know, I have never had a pile of scripts for me to choose.

[D]

Oh, my God. I literally never.

[B]

No, I mean, I'm sure some get weeded out at some agent or manager level, but not really. I seem to get the thing I should be doing next. Next.

[D]

It's so interesting because looking at you from the outside, it seems like such interesting. And I see how that choice led to that choice led to that. Ah, what a lovely, interesting career. You know, it's a very elegant. And it seems to suit you and match you. There's a certain level of elegance and not nonchalance, because there are. We know that with that eye, that nonchalant and that ease. There's so much work goes into that kind of appearing effortless. And, you know. And it does appear effortless. So it's just so interesting. And I believe you. And I know better than to think that it just naturally evolves in this sort of fluid way.

[B]

But I do think that if you. I. I always say I have a great manager and great agents and all of that stuff, but I'm really good angels. I feel like acting has been part of the fabric of me growing as a human being.

[D]

Absolutely. When you say, I always have thought, why'd I get this part at this time in my life? Always? And I just did this play and I was playing a judge who's just nothing but pure authority and assured in his authority. And I felt so. The opposite of having any authority. Cause I hadn't done a play in 20 years. So I felt so insecure. But I had to just walk out on the leading edge of absolute authority. And it was so good for me. And I knew, oh, that's why I got this part. You know what I mean? And so I've always. You don't even have to look very far for, like you were just alluding to. And there's examples you used of why, oh, I got this part because of this. This is why I'm doing this. And that's one of the wonderful things about our job, is that because you're constantly sort of learning about yourself while you're doing it, that's the most fantastic parts of it.

[B]

I can't wait to see what you do next. Acting, really. Seriously, I can't.

[D]

Me too.

[B]

You're a delight, man. What is your kind of North Star? How do you know if you're doing something right or wrong? Your wife. You have heroes, you have philosophers in your mind. When you have big decisions in life or how you react to what the world is doing.

[D]

That's a really good question. I don't know the answer to that. It's just a feel. It's just a feel job. You know, I was sitting with my wife yesterday, talking. And I was talking. She's 10 years younger than me. I'm 63, and she's in her early 50s. I said, well, this is not an avoidance of your question, but just. I go, your 50s are very different than your 60s. Like, 60 threw me. So I thought, 60s, the beginning of being old. I'm like, I'm young, old now. You know what I mean? It's the beginning. And that's. I never. And I was famous for being young. How did I get to be young, old? And so anyway. And so when you tell me you're 78, you say it's shocking because you look incredible. And you. Or so you. But that's the thing. We're still us all the time. So anyway, I was talking to my wife about being in your 50s. You still have this energy and this drive and things. But my ambition and drive now is different, and I'm not sure where it is right now still. I'm not sure. It's clearly transitioned from my 50s when I was doing a billion TV shows, directing and working all the time, and now I'm working less. And I did this book and I'm just. I'm in an in between kind of thing, which is why I think I went back to acting, to kind of. That's my first sort of baseline for myself. So I went back to that and said, okay, where am I? And it was so interesting to go back to because there's certain things I can't do anymore, but certain things I can do so easily now that I could never do. And so that was interesting to come back to it after such a long break and realize, oh, I've got this now. I don't have that anymore, but I have this now. And so my noise. I think in some way I've gone back to acting because that's probably bringing me home to myself in a certain way, if that makes any sense. So I don't know, though. Have you ever felt disallowed? Pick your brain then, because you seem so buoyant about your career and showbiz. I've been found myself so many times discouraged and disinterested to save myself from pain when I felt disappointed. And you seem to not fall prey to that. You understand what I mean?

[B]

I do. I mean, I have fears like crazy.

[A]

You did what, six months, seven months of acting. Let's go 10 months, 12 months of

[B]

acting in your first three big films that shot you up into the world, into the universe. I did 11 years of being put out into the universe. I did have a much longer learning curve than you did. You were short shot out into the world in one year.

[D]

I like to say that I was a fast starter but a slow developer. You know, I blossomed late, even though my first thing was so, you know, like I was alluding to earlier. I learned how to work long after my fame, my successful blush with, you know, with notoriety. That's when then I learned how to work, you know, and learned that I loved the work and I had an acting teacher when I was a kid. She used to always say, just the work is all you have. You always go back to the work. And I'm like, whatever, lady. And I realized. But that is so true. It's like, that's all there is, is going to work. You know, the work is so. And the work in and of itself is so satisfying because who knows? Whatever happens after it? So. And as you know, like, you think this is gonna be hugely successful and it's just a dud. That little thing is knocked off without even thinking, oh, my God, that went through the roof like Pretty in Pink. I thought this was a ridiculous movie about a girl wanting to go to a dance and make a dress. I'm like. And I felt like it was a step down because I'd already been in St. Elmo's Fire, where I was playing a college graduate. Now I'm back in high school carrying books. I'm like, oh, God, this. I'm such. I'm a failure. You know, this is the mentality. 22. Yeah, but. So you never know.

[A]

What's 22?

[B]

See what I mean? Oh, my God. I couldn't handle what you handled at 22. I couldn't.

[D]

Well, it was interesting to go back. I made a documentary about all that. The Brat Pack stuff a couple years ago, and it was interesting to go back and look at it. I had so much more affection for my youth because in many ways, I felt like a failure after that. I carried around the sense of failure after that for years and to go back and kind of really, I had so much affection for myself and for the rest of the people that I didn't have when I was young.

[B]

Right.

[D]

Because, you know, you're young, you're scared. You're trying to figure out what's next. Oh, my God. Stuff's happening, you know, and all that crap. But to like. And, yes, I had affection for them, and that was great, and we went to see them, but I was much gentler on myself. Yeah, you did okay. You did fine. You did okay there. I mean, with what you had and, like, what else could you have done? And with, like, a desire to have a little sip. I mean, what else could you have done? You know what I mean? So, you know, I think about that. It's the greatest thing that ever happened to me. Not. Not. Not stopping drinking, but the fact that that happened to me, that getting so derailed by drinking the cracked vase lasts longest. That old phrase that is my greatest strength has come from that and not the stopping of it. Yes, of course there's. Stopping was a prerequisite for that imperfection to have become. Am I making any sense?

[B]

You are. Here's my two cents. You gotta be around people and monetize it. However, you definitely monetize it. But you have to be out around people sharing who you are because you are that cracked whatever vase or whatever but you need. This is a really good. You know, Andrew, right now this is worth sharing. It really is. I really am.

[D]

It's right here, you know?

[B]

You know, I'm excited to see what you do next. I really am. And I'm going to read your book. Not just read about it.

[D]

You can listen to the audio while you're driving.

[B]

Andrew, it's me, Ted. I'm listening. What a pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much.

[D]

Thank you.

[B]

Yeah. Say hello to your wife.

[D]

I will.

[B]

And your kid that like the good place.

[A]

Thank you. Andrew McCarthy.

[B]

I really enjoyed my conversation with you.

[A]

Check out his book who needs Friends and his documentary Bratz, about his time

[B]

in the Brat Pack.

[A]

That's it for this week. Special thanks to Team Coco. If you enjoyed this episode, send it to a loved one rate and review on Apple Podcasts.

[B]

If you're in a good mood once

[A]

again, you can watch our full length video [e-mail] teamcoco see you next time. Where everybody knows their name.

[D]

You've been listening to where everybody knows your name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson. Sometimes. The show is produced by me, Nick Leow. Our executive producers are Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross and myself. Sarah Fedorovich is our supervising producer. Engineering and mixing by Joanna Samuel with support from Eduardo Perez. Research by Alyssa Grohl. Talent booking by Paula Davis and Gina Bautista. Our theme music is by Woody Harrelson, Antony Genn, Mary Steenberg and John Osborne.

[C]

Hey, I'm Paul Scheer.

[E]

I'm June Diane Rayfield.

[C]

And I'm Jason Manzoukas. And we're the hosts of how did this get Made? A comedy podcast where we deconstruct, make fun of and celebrate the best worst movies ever made. Have you ever seen a movie that's

[D]

so bad that it's actually good? That's what we're talking about. From blockbuster franchises and made for TV

[C]

romances to bonkers 80s action flicks and obscure sci fi musicals, we cover it all. You can find. How did this get Made? Wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to follow the show so you never miss an episode.

[D]

Idiot.

[E]

At Strayer University, we help students like you. Go from Will I? To why not? For over 130 years, we've been innovating higher education to make it more affordable. Affordable, accessible and attainable so you can reach your goals. Go from thinking Can I? To Yes, I Can and keep striving. Visit Strayer. Edu to learn more. Strayer University is certified to operate in Virginia by Chevinous many campuses, including at 2121 15th Street north in Arlington, Virginia.