← Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson (sometimes)
Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson (sometimes)
BONUS: René Redzepi
01:04:00
In this week’s bonus episode, Ted Danson welcomes acclaimed Danish chef René Redzepi! René is the chef and co-owner of the three-Michelin-starred restaurant Noma in Copenhagen, Denmark, renowned for its creative and resourceful use of Nordic ingredients. Created and narrated by Redzepi, “Omnivore” is an Apple TV+ series that explores the human experience through the lens of the world’s most essential ingredients. All eight episodes are available now. Like watching your podcasts? Visit http://youtube.com/teamcoco to see full episodes.
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- [00:00]
Ted Danson
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- [00:50]
Rene Redzepi
Most of Europe was predominantly French food. The question was very simple. What else is around us?
- [01:07]
Ted Danson
Welcome back to where everybody knows your name. Today. I am very excited to drop this bonus episode with one of the world's greatest chefs, Rene Redzepi. Rene is a co founding head chef of the three Michelin starred restaurant Nomad in Copenhagen. It's no overstatement to say that NOMA has changed the global dining scene through their creative use of Nordic ingredients. Rene recently starred in a new Apple TV series called Omnivore which explores the ingredients that built societies and changed human history. I highly encourage you to check it out. I was fascinated when I watched it the other day. So glad Rene could join me remotely from Kyoto where his restaurant Noma has been doing a residency. Here he is, the remarkable Rene Redzepi. First off, usually Rene, I do this with Woody Harrelson. That's the name of the podcast, you know, hosted by Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson sometimes because he's very whimsical creature and is all over the world. And I think you experienced some of his whimsicalness in Kyoto. Ben asked the story. Yeah, please. Ben asked me to ask you to tell him about it. Tell us about it.
- [02:29]
Rene Redzepi
It was hilarious. We get a phone call. It's Woody Harrelson. Can he come by? Sure. But you know, we have, don't really have any seats. But no, no, he just wants to come by and see it. He's, he's been to Copenhagen before. Then he comes to the restaurant. It's in the middle of lunch. The restaurant is full of people and the sommelier maze. She's showing him around. And in the center of the restaurant there's a big champagne cooler made of a solid piece of wood. And suddenly he just goes over to the champagne cooler and he puts his head into it and it's like half melted ice and he just does like. And then he lifts his head up and then he just sort of splits, splashes the water Around. Meanwhile, the whole restaurant is frozen because they had, of course, seen Woody Helsing walking through the restaurant and then splashing his face in the champagne cooler. And then he went out to our little garden. We had. As if he just needed a refreshment. It was really, truly an iconic moment. I've never. I've actually never experienced anything as iconic as that in a restaurant. I've experienced stupid things and bad things, but this was just. Yeah, well, you need a refreshment. And he. He. He just did it. It was incredible, actually.
- [03:49]
Ted Danson
That is my friend Woody Harrelson. I am so.
- [03:53]
Rene Redzepi
It was fantastic.
- [03:53]
Ted Danson
Yeah, yeah. I'm so buttoned up. I would never dream of doing something like that. Was the restaurant full of tourists from all over the world or Japanese people or so?
- [04:05]
Rene Redzepi
We have half Japanese and half tourists, but I think Woody Harrelson is universally known. So, like, everybody stopped in that tracks, you know, like sort of with a fork halfway to their mouth, you know, just staring at.
- [04:19]
Ted Danson
So, in essence, that story of Woody Harrelson has gone all over the world because people from all over the world witnessed it. That. That's amazing.
- [04:28]
Rene Redzepi
Yeah.
- [04:29]
Ted Danson
Yeah.
- [04:29]
Rene Redzepi
I mean, he's a. He's definitely becoming a legend in our part of the world in the restaurant trade because he so loves food.
- [04:37]
Ted Danson
Yeah.
- [04:37]
Rene Redzepi
Like you. But, you know, he really is into food in the sense that he's also quite sort of almost like a advocate for better ways and that we should change our systems and so on and so forth. And, of course, he's a vegan, so when he eats something that he loves, he's one of those people that just expresses it. And it's so amazing, because you work in a restaurant, the biggest joy is when guests are happy, when they truly express their happiness and you feel, okay, I just work 16 hours. It doesn't matter. Look how happy he is. And he truly does that. And so he's, like, one of the best guests you can have, even though that he will splash his head in the champagne cooler. And sometimes he goes for a smoking break for 30 minutes. Yeah.
- [05:31]
Ted Danson
Not tobacco, by the way.
- [05:33]
Rene Redzepi
Of course, not tobacco. He comes back even happier. So that's great.
- [05:37]
Ted Danson
And loves everything better with a bit of the munchies. So he's the perfect guest.
- [05:41]
Rene Redzepi
Yeah. No, yeah, It's. Yeah, it's funny because it's. It's. Sometimes you have guests and they just become a friend of the house.
- [05:55]
Ted Danson
Yes.
- [05:56]
Rene Redzepi
And that happened to Woody, and he just became a friend of the house. And last time they were in Copenhagen, you know, they just Dropped by and we have actually a therapist that works with us, like a massage therapist. And he jumped in on a session, and he got a session while his wife waited, and then she got a session just, you know, with the team.
- [06:15]
Ted Danson
Yeah, I think he's hoping. He's hoping to buy, I think, or whatever, something. Lisa. A houseboat. That's his dream, too. Get a houseboat in Copenhagen.
- [06:26]
Rene Redzepi
Yeah, he should definitely do it. I think Copenhagen is his type of place. I honestly think so.
- [06:31]
Ted Danson
Oh, it's. We're madly in love with it. Let me also give a shout out to Ben, who's your business partner now is. Right. Even though. Is he still connected to. He's not connected to the everyday life of Noma.
- [06:46]
Rene Redzepi
No. He lives in Australia, but we worked eight years together, and we've done a TV show together called Omnivore.
- [06:53]
Ted Danson
I know. I love that.
- [06:55]
Rene Redzepi
And we run that department together.
- [06:58]
Ted Danson
Yeah, Well, I would love to talk about that in a second, but the other person. I mean, Ben helped us get this together, which we're all very excited about. And my wife, Mary Steenburgen son, Charlie McDowell, who's married to Lily Collins, and they live in Copenhagen. But they were also responsible because they met Ben and they were. We were. Because it's very hard to get into the restaurant because everybody from all over the world flies in, and it sometimes takes a year to get in to get a reservation. We were lucky enough. Mary and I have had dinner there three times. And so I just want to give a shout out to all those people who made this possible. Also, my friend Phil Rosenthal. I love the conversation you had with him. That was fun to watch.
- [07:54]
Rene Redzepi
Yeah, yeah. He's amazing. He's also a true enthusiast, and there's not many of them, but when you meet a true enthusiast, you have to keep them close.
- [08:06]
Ted Danson
Yes. He brings joy. He brings joy to the subject of food. He's, you know, he's infectious. I love. He's like a. He'll be willing to be as silly as need be to bring people in to listen to, you know, the story of Noma or whatever.
- [08:27]
Rene Redzepi
To me, it's more than that. He brings optimism to the world. He is a fix of positivity, you know, in a sometimes otherwise dimly lit world. You know, he just, hey, let me turn on the light a little bit for you guys, and that's amazing.
- [08:49]
Ted Danson
Can we talk about Noma? From my experience's point of view, which is. First off, the anticipation is huge because it's very hard to get in. And you've heard how amazing. But you can't really picture it. And then you're greeted at the driveway at the end of the road. And then you walk by these buildings that you realize are where you do the testing and the test kitchen and the labs and everything. And there are fields of flowers, which you somehow realize you're probably going to have some of them for dinner. So this builds and builds until you come to the front doors, which are huge. And the first time we were there, we walked under this kind of canopy of branches, so it felt like you were walking into the woods or something. And then you open the doors, and all of a sudden there are, I don't know how many, 20, 30 people who are, I guess, sous chefs, staff, you know, waiters, everybody who are saying hello and greeting you and welcoming you. And it's not an affectation. It's not a great ploy. It is genuinely people and you feel it, who are so excited that you're about to come in and experience something that they have worked joyfully but very hard on, you know, very hard to make this meal you're about to have. So the sense. And are they applauding, too? I can't remember if there's an applause or just the verbal. It's verbal greeting of you. So immediately you have this huge smile on your face, and the anticipation is growing. Tell me about that. Tell me how. When was that a purposeful thing?
- [10:45]
Rene Redzepi
Yeah, I mean, it was. And I have not really shared this story many times, but. So when I was young, you know, my family, they are Albanians, Albanians from the former Yugoslavia, from a small community there where, you know, all these people lived together in this sort of Communist nation that fell apart in the beginning of the 90s and before it truly fell apart and the terrible war happened. We. One night, I remember me and my brother, we got woken up in the middle of the night and the whole family was up. We were young boys, and we got taken to the car, and then we drove. And I remember turning back in the car in the backseat, and I was looking in my entire family, aunties, cousins, you name it. And they were all crying, and they were all waving. And that is the reason why I wanted a greet and a meet and a goodbye. That is kind of like the most impactful memory I have of somebody saying goodbye to you or this human connection as you're leaving or as you're entering, you know. And so it came from that, of course, when you then open it into a restaurant or do it in a restaurant. It. It started with also Us just wanting the cooks to step into the dining room a little bit more. And instead of being so hidden away, why aren't you seeing. Why aren't we seeing the guests and the ones we're cooking for? We should notice them. And then those two things together just ended up being sort of the normal greeting where. Which is very impactful to a lot of people, no doubt about it. And ever so often, we change it slightly so it doesn't become mechanic or staged so that it feels like, hey, no, now I'm standing in a new place. And I always tell people, don't greet people like you're their waiter. You have to relax around them. Almost as if friends are coming to your house. How would you greet them? And for a few hours, that's what happens in a restaurant. You know, it's more than a transaction. When you go to a place like Noma or other restaurants, you have to commit to, hey, we're having a night together, and either we're going to enjoy it and it's going to be, you know, concentrate and focus and we're going to give it our own, or else it's just not worth working at Noma or even operating Noma. I mean, I just wouldn't do it. I need to be in that place where it's everything. And it starts by looking people in the eye when they come through the door and saying, hello, welcome, now, you know your guest.
- [13:50]
Ted Danson
I have never felt. I mean, I'm an actor. I know how to turn it on or be charming or, you know, and sometimes, hopefully it's real. God, I sound horrible, don't I? But I can sense when something is manufactured to try to create an impression. This was not. I mean, everyone in our group had, like, our cheeks ached from how much we were smiling because it was so genuine. You know, you walked through the doors and boom, something. You are now in a different experience than you've ever had in your life. And it starts with that greeting, then let me move to the next kind of thing. I noticed as I walked in, my wife Mary, loves design, you know, so we always are looking at how things are built and everything. That is one of the most beautiful spaces I've ever been in. It is so conscious and gorgeous and reflects, you know, the quality. Not the quality, but the experience you're about to have starts with the architecture as well. Will you talk a little bit about that and who designed that and what the thought was?
- [15:05]
Rene Redzepi
Yeah. So if we go back to the first Noma, we are 21 years old. Now. And we've only been at this location for about seven years. And we were going to hold a party, a big party, and we're looking for a space. And then Peter Kreiner, my partner at noma, he was looking at this derelict building in a very old part of town, but complete derelict part of town. And he said, well, guess what I found a place for. I didn't find a place for a party, but I found where we're going to put the new normal. Because I'd asked around and said it's time for us to do something. We have a lot of success, but it's also very repetitive. We need to change something. And we thought moving would be a good thing to do. And I backed out there immediately when he called me, because it's rare to get such a phone call. And I fell in love with this space. It's a hectare of land which is. I think it's 2 acres, more or less. It's in Copenhagen. There's a lake in front that can never be built around it because it's national heritage land. It's just unique. You really have a small oasis in a city. And then we got to work, and then we finally figured out who we could sort of rent the land from. And then we contacted which today, you know, today he's a megastar. Bjarke Ingels is his name. He's got big architects who's done buildings all throughout the world. And we contacted him and we told him that we'd like to have a series of buildings that represented the surrounding neighborhood, which is the free town of Christiania. And in the free town of Christiania, the buildings are not. Everything is a little different. It's sort of quirky. And so we wanted that. And we also wanted to be inspired by tradition, which is in the Scandinavian old tradition of building a farm. Say you'd have separate building for all the different uses of a farm. So of course, animals in one place, a living space in one place, but also bathroom in another space, and so on and so forth. Different buildings. And then the third thing we told him is that everything needs to be handmade. But it can't feel like wood shop. It still needs to feel like it's modern. And then we spent two years on putting things together and literally sitting hours and hours and hours and discussing everything. Every corner, every nook and cranny, every detail, every piece of fabric, again and again and again and again until we're ready. And then we pull. We sort of pulled the trigger on it. And Then, you know, we in one of the buildings, there's 200,000 screws in, for instance, and it's a tiny building that's 80 square meters in, you know, there was 80 stonemasons that did one of the other buildings because it's done in an old technique that very few know how to do it. It needed to be crafted but modern at the same time. And it needed to be something that could last forever. So it was actually interesting because the first thing he did looked like a modern museum. I hope. Bjarke, if you listen to this, I'm sorry, but it, you know, and I told him, I said, do you know that I will be spending 12 to 16 hours a day in this place. This is going to be our home. We're going to have our main meal of our lives here. I need to step into this and feel like I am in an oasis, you know.
- [19:03]
Ted Danson
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- [22:40]
Rene Redzepi
No, that we added as interior design.
- [22:42]
Ted Danson
Yeah.
- [22:42]
Rene Redzepi
So the big strokes Bjarke did, and then interior design was a interior design architect called David Tolstrup. But besides that, we also have, well, I guess you would call her a stylist, but it's a person that's worked with us for 21 years and she has all the details, you know, finding that piece of moss that goes on the wall for the forest season. And Christine and I, we know each other very well. We have meetings constantly where we're planning the next season ahead. What are we going to do this year? How are we going to set it up? Actually, she's here right now in Kyoto with a team of three, and they have been in the forest for the last three days finding a specific type of bark that's going to be put on the ceiling here. And they actually, right behind me here, they found this at the flea markets in Kyoto. This is old fabric that's used for the production of miso.
- [23:47]
Ted Danson
Oh, wow.
- [23:48]
Rene Redzepi
And we used it on our walls.
- [23:50]
Ted Danson
It's the most beautiful color.
- [23:53]
Rene Redzepi
Yeah, it is.
- [23:53]
Ted Danson
Yeah, it's gorgeous. Three times we've been there. We were lucky enough to have one of the tables right by the outdoor windows that can sometimes open. And I was facing across the lake, and there's this big building with this huge smokestack, which I think was designed by the same architect. But I sat there, my first reaction was, oh, my God, we're in this heavenly, magical place. And there's a factory right across the way belching smoke into the air. And then somebody pointed out what this building was and how magical it is because it takes garbage from part of Copenhagen and does something to it. The process that just steam is coming out. And it provides electricity for 30,000 families in Copenhagen. On the backside, there's a ski slope that you can ski down. The slant of the far side of the building, there's a climbing wall. It's just, you know, here you are. This is what I think Denmark does so well. Your design is so beautiful, but it's always functional. It's not, you know, purpose. It always has a purpose. And that just blew me away that. That was across the way from you and designed by the same man who. The same architect.
- [25:23]
Rene Redzepi
Yeah, no, definitely. It's a magical place. I actually. My main passion, besides my family and my work, is hiking. So I actually train on that hill. It's called Copen Hill. And I train for when I need to go on my long, strenuous hikes. I will go 10 times up and down. It's like it's 500 meters from the beginning of the slope and all the way up, and it's 90 meters up in the air, and people hike it daily and people ski on it. It's some sort of modern technology in the incinerator that does all the electricity so that it actually captures all the smog and only the steam that goes into the sky and then these pellets of smog are captured. It's a special thing. I think if you haven't been up there, next time you should definitely walk it, because you can see all of Copenhagen. And I think about this thing about Denmark. I mean, we are a small place. We are like 6 million people, and we have space around us. And it's also a society where almost everything you make have to be made for people. And you have to figure out almost always, how can everyone get a use and a joy from whatever is being made, which is a very great thing to do, actually.
- [26:50]
Ted Danson
I don't want to dwell on this part, but we've gone twice to the Museum of Design, which in Copenhagen. I could spend days in There. It's amazing.
- [27:03]
Rene Redzepi
It's so amazing.
- [27:04]
Ted Danson
Let me go to the next thing that strikes you or me. When we sat down and observed the room and we were greeted. But then the service began. The people who serve you come up and they describe what's going to be going on for you. And there are wine pairings or if you don't drink wine, there's different kinds of juices that are paired with each course and you get all the information. But then the actual service of somebody coming to fill your water glass and naturally somebody at the table will ask them a question because you're so fascinated by what's going on. And instead of, oh, I have a job, I can't really talk to you, or I'll make it brief and cursory, they stop and tell you exactly or talk to you genuinely in that moment. And without really noticing it, somebody comes up behind that person and takes the water pitcher without you really even kind of noticing. And the water service continues as this other person who's serving you continues the conversation. It's like your tag team with this most elegant but homey, real kind of service. It just knocked me out and everyone was so full of, I'm assuming these are my words, happiness and pride of being there and being part of this. All the people working there have this sense of joy and pride. I'm sure that there's lots of other stuff going on in their life, but that's what we as customers get in your, in your restaurant. How did you work on that? How did you. Was that a big part of the training?
- [28:56]
Rene Redzepi
Yeah, I think to build like a culture where people, they go to work and they every day they are like, I'm going to give everything I have and be, you know, 0.0001% better than the day before. That is something very special. You need a very unique culture and that doesn't just happen overnight. I think it's something that we built up over many years and then I'm still there daily. We have a strong team of managers. My right hand man in the kitchen. It's 16 years we've been working together. Peter Kreiner is 18. The two head of the test kitchens is 12 years each and so on and so forth. And all this combined makes for people that go to work and you know, there's an energy that you fuel, that you get fuel from, from one another and, and then so that's the most important. It's to build the right culture for any organization, I'd say. And that's hard. But then if you are, I guess, looking at this sort of the genuine service style, what is that? And how do you get to not have it feel staged or like paid actors just handing you food and replicating what the chef told you? But it feels so. So staged, and there's no emotion in it that is more hard to actually to get through. One of the first times when I really started realizing that we needed to work on this was when I read the book down and under in Paris by George Orwell. In it, he has a. He. He's like, lives as a tramp in Paris, and he finds himself working in. In a restaurant in Paris, and he's a plunger. A plunger or a dishwasher. And he ends up hating the wait staff because, you know, he'd watch the wait staff and they'd come to work in their, you know, in their regular workman outfit, and then they dress up in butterflies and be all. And then they'd act as if they sort of belonged with the people. And he hated this act that happened, as opposed to them just coming to work and say, I am who I am, but I'm still going to be professional, but I'm not going to change myself or how I talk to people. And that was the first time where I'm like, okay, we need to really work on that for service. Because that is something that. That makes it not genuine. I had. I was already feeling it when I was young, 25, 26, going to restaurants, being. I feel this is static. I feel I'm not comfortable, you know, and it turns out that the more comfortable that the staff is, like, if 20 years ago, if you had piercings in a restaurant, it was complete, no go, or tattoos or green hair. You know, it was a few years in where we're like, if people want to have a nose piercing, let's just let them have a nose piercing in the restaurant. You know, somebody asked me, hey, if there's a man that wants to wear a dress to work, can he do it? I said, yes, sure, as long as it's part of what we're wearing, you know. But if that really is truly what makes that person confident, and he will step into work and say, I'm here. I'm ready to do the work. We should do it. And that made a big difference. And then over time, you built up something that's really, really, really strong.
- [32:57]
Ted Danson
Everybody feels like they're stakeholders in the restaurant, that they're not just being paid by you, that you. That to some level, or not. They're part of this whole operation. And I heard you talk to somebody on I think a podcast or somewhere where you had. I don't know if it was a Sunday or whatever, where each people got to experience creating something for the group that was new, something they came up with. I don't know if that is part of the waitstaff kind of thing, but there was an attempt by you not only to discover new stuff and benefit from it, but that people found themselves. All of a sudden I am. I'm an important ingredient in this, this restaurant because I'm getting to create and show you what I can do.
- [33:52]
Rene Redzepi
We call that Saturday night projects. It happened for many, many years. It was very tough to do because it was at the end of the week on a Saturday, like 1am and at that point, each member or one member of each of the sections had to have prepared. It didn't need to be a dish, but it needed to be something from the past week that they've been working on or that they is a part that was a part of the section that they were curious about. Why are we doing it like that? Is there a better way or. I am working with this, but I am from Colombia, so I've actually took this sorrel leaf and I did this because that's how we would do it in Colombia. And then they would present it to everyone. And that moment of presentation, young cook stepping up 40 other cooks looking at you is nerve wracking. It's like center stage for the first time. People would be shaking. They would discover that I had this idea or sure it was going to work. And then when I tested it, it was terrible. I'm like, well, you know, that's how it is. And it was such an intimate moment to do this. And I think a lot of people, over time, they also help. It helped them figure out, what do I actually want to do with my cooking career. Like for instance, Rocio Sanchez, which was a. She was a sous chef. She was a part of the test kitchen. A woman from Chicago of Mexican descent, you know, she had the resume that was glowing. She'd been to all the best restaurants in the world. She worked with us nearly a decade. And through these Saturday night projects, she found out, I'm going to open a taqueria in Copenhagen. This is actually what I want and what I love. And, you know, week by week, we'd watch people hone in on the true cooking of themselves, you know, as opposed to trying to perhaps impress people with technique and trying to Do a sort of a fine dining dish. And it was. You had moments of pure magic. Actually, someday. There was an example. We have Meta. She's here now. She's with us for 12 years. She's here with her family and her son. And she just came to us 12 years ago and her first Saturday night projects, she steps up and she says, well, I've done something a little strange. I hope you're gonna like it. And she was nervous, shaking, nervous, visibly nervous. And she made a cabbage dessert, you know, and I'm there in front of her. I'm saying, listen, Meta, of all the things you could have chosen, you're setting yourself up. It's going to be hard. You know, people are going to be eating cabbage for dessert. But the thing is, it was incredible and the quality of the idea was incredible. I wrote it down. I can't remember it today. But the quality of the idea and the reason for it was not just, hey, let me put something weird on dessert so I can shock people. There was a true quality behind the idea. And for that reason, it was like, wow, Meta, you nailed it. I mean, we've never had a cabbage dessert on the menu, but it showed like a fearlessness and a depth of thinking and somebody that had true leadership in her, you know, because to step up like that, that was something else. And today she's the head of the test kitchen and she's a creative mind unlike most. She has a creative mind unlike most people.
- [37:50]
Ted Danson
Yeah, you don't want to compromise on your vacation. In fact, you deserve more on vacation experience more. Who with Norwegian Cruise Line, find more amazing places to explore, more unique and longer itineraries, more time in port, and more entertainment and restaurant options on board NCL ships. Enjoy perks like unlimited open bar, specialty dining, free airfare for second guest, and excursion credits too. There's more to a vacation with Norwegian. More to see, more to do, more to enjoy. Visit ncl.com, call your travel advisor or 1-888-NCL. Cruise restrictions apply. Okay, I'm starting to take a look at who I need to buy gifts for for the family. So this is kind of perfect. Quince. They have winter stuff coming up now and I have experienced how good they are because I got a Mongolian cashmere zip up sweater that is actually stunning and ridiculously inexpensive. I mean, almost hard to believe. Quince. It lets you treat your loved ones and yourself to everyday luxury at an affordable price. That's true. They're super soft fleece sweatpants. I have not tried them But I'm going to, after reading this, are a major upgrade to whatever you're lounging in right now. And they're packable puffer jackets. Live in la, you're going to New York and you don't have that much room in your suitcase. It's a packable winter jacket, perfect for anyone who's traveling for the holidays. Gift luxury this holiday season without the luxury price tag. Go to quints.com Ted and Woody for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com Ted and Woody to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com Ted and Woody so then comes the food. And I think I have this, my memory right, that the first, it didn't happen all three times we went there, but the first time we were there, we had a soup that came, I think in a large, by the way, everything you serve on is like to die for. Beautifully designed, amazing pottery or wood or whatever. It is just beautiful. But I can't remember how the soup came in what kind of container, but it was gorgeous. And then there were flowers and you thought, oh, am I supposed to take these flowers out and then drink the soup? Because literally, it was hard to get your mouth, your lips, your nose down to the rim to get, which is what you were supposed encouraged to do. So it was like sticking your face into, bending down, walking through this field and deciding to have some soup directly from the ground. And then the liquid that came into your mouth, it was kind of like how, for me, it was like when you taste a really good caviar, it's like, oh, I'm tasting the ocean. That soup to me was, oh, I don't know how, but I just tasted the most delicious, most fertile piece of earth that I've ever, you know. Well, who's ever had drunk earth? But it was like that it was somehow captured that essence. Just tell me about that one and then I'll move on.
- [41:41]
Rene Redzepi
Well, it's actually a sort of a creative concept that we have done quite a few times. We were doing it also on this menu in a different way. And that was something that was inspired by one of my masters that I worked with. His name is Ferran Adria. He had a legendary restaurant called El Bull. He's probably the most influential chef of the past half decade or half century, I would say. And he used to complain that people would, you know, the, the food would come in front of people and they'd Just eat. They wouldn't smell the food. He said, smell the food. And he would do all these things and try to go into the restaurant, say, smell it first, please. And, you know, he was right, but he was really so animated about it, actually. And at one point, he made a little fork in which there was like. Like a sort of a clip on. On the fork and where he would clip on a little herb. And then as you would put your fork to your mouth, there would be this little clip on with a little herb. And then, you know, you'd smell like a sprig of thyme. And. Yeah, so I guess we. We furthered that and thought, well, as you're drinking soup, why aren't we taking advantage of that void between the bowl and your face and have people just dunk their head into the very thing that they're drinking? And so when you come to vegetarian season, which this was when you came, you know, we want. You're forced to do it. You cannot not put your head into the. In. Into the. All the plants.
- [43:29]
Ted Danson
Right.
- [43:30]
Rene Redzepi
And of course, we add all sorts of scents and things in there so that when you really drink, you need to breathe, and then you take in this aroma. And when you finally, for once, every few times in a year or in a month, use all your senses at the same time, smelling and tasting, hearing and seeing, then it's very powerful. When all senses are in use. It's incredible.
- [43:57]
Ted Danson
I come. I'm going to jump around for a second because I want to go back to one more dish, but what you just described is what I. What I left with. When I think about Noma, it's like going to the most beautiful ballet and. Or the most beautiful gallery art or, you know, opera or music or something that is just supremely creative and beautiful. You walk away just in touch with your own creativity and wanting to excel and wanting. I couldn't wait to go act again. I couldn't wait to do something that was my creative expression. Nothing to do with cooking, but you're just. Noma, it feels like. And what you're doing just is oozing creativity and excellence. And it's inspiring because it makes you want to go off and do the same thing. Yes. You're getting incredible food and incredible tastes and flavors that you've never experienced before. There are times where literally I went. I have never tasted that, but it feels so familiar and Right. Which is amazing. That was me, I think. Yeah, go.
- [45:15]
Rene Redzepi
Can I comment on this? Because I think there's something very important about all of this, which is this human connection and the culture and the energy and the creativity and the spacing. The setting is so hugely important. Most people don't have the best meal experiences in the best restaurants. It's at a beach and they're eating a sandwich, perhaps, or just a grilled octopus, but they're with people they really love and they have a drink, and it's a magical moment. And suddenly the stars are out, or they're in a forest, or it's a special party. And I genuinely think if you are able to have this energy that I can't describe what it is, but there is a certain energy when a group of people come together and they all go for the same thing. And the setting is also enhances that. I mean, you could almost serve goulash, you know, and people still leave with something.
- [46:17]
Ted Danson
Yeah, the best. The best. I do a lot of ocean activism on the board of directors of Oceania, which is about, you know, in essence, it's about making sure that our. The world's fisheries remain sustainable. So that. Because if you do that correctly, you could feed a billion fish meals a day to the world. And it's a nutrition that so many people desperately need. So anyway, that's what I do. But people ask me, what's your favorite piece of fish? Favorite piece of fish I ever had was a sardine boat that came in. It was in Basque country. I don't know if it was on Arabia or San Sebastian or someplace. And. And the fish came. We watched it get offloaded. And then, you know, a bucket full came up to where we were being hosted by this union of fishermen. And they threw it on a grill, and there was bread and olive oil, and boom, that was your fish sandwich. And it was truly the most beautiful tasting fish I've ever had because of that whole. The freshness. The freshness and the whole experience. But it was amazing. Let me do one last dish, and then I'd like to move to other things. So you're just having this magical meal of tasting things you never tasted and some you knew, and it was just the most delicious version of that you'd ever tasted. And then came, I think the second to last course. I thought it was the last was somewhat sweet. So I thought, oh, this is dessert and this will be the end. And how amazing. And then, oh, look, they're coming out with this candle. How sweet. They have a little candle they're probably going to light for us to say goodbye. But no, the candle was dessert. It was entirely edible. The wick was some sort of, I don't know, crushed nut or something.
- [48:11]
Rene Redzepi
Walnut.
- [48:12]
Ted Danson
Yeah. And it was like. So there's something. It sounds like, oh, is this tricky or. No, you're fascinated. You're absorbed by the beauty and the creativity of what you've done. And then it tastes unbelievable. I'll never forget that. That moment.
- [48:31]
Rene Redzepi
Yeah. Well, it's also the last moment of that meal. And, you know, usually by dessert time, people like, okay, I'm done, I'm full. And.
- [48:42]
Ted Danson
Yeah.
- [48:42]
Rene Redzepi
And. And if you can just have that final goodbye. Yeah, but that. At the same time, that specific serving, it's actually a sort of a fudge, I guess, or caramel.
- [48:54]
Ted Danson
Yeah.
- [48:54]
Rene Redzepi
It's delicious. And the thing is, when you have put the wick in, which is just a thinly sliced walnut, the natural oils in the walnut can actually will act like a wick. So you just can put a walnut on fire in your home later today and test it. There's so much oil in it. It just stays on.
- [49:18]
Ted Danson
You adults can. Not you kids, but go on. Yes.
- [49:20]
Rene Redzepi
Yeah. And so because of that heat that it gets on the way to the table, and as people blow it out, it tempers the caramel perfectly.
- [49:36]
Ted Danson
Oh, my God. See?
- [49:37]
Rene Redzepi
So that when you eat it, it's just. How can this be such. You know, there's a slight chew, but then it just melts and it doesn't stick to my teeth. How's that happen? And that's a lot to do with the correct temperature.
- [49:50]
Ted Danson
Unbelievable. This is a podcast, so I'm supposed to be letting you do most of the talking, but I had to express all of this to you. Mary and I and everyone we were sitting with felt this. And to be able to have the opportunity to describe what it meant to me, what it felt like. I so appreciate. I will now ask other questions, but I truly. One of the most. Three of the most memorable evenings I've ever had, and it is the creativity. Can you describe why did you not find a restaurant where you served the most amazing. This. This is silly. But the most amazing steaks and most amazing vegetables and potatoes, you know, because that's honorable. Or whatever. Or the most. Or Italian food or whatever. What is it that is your philosophical guide to creating a restaurant like Noma? Are you. Yes.
- [50:48]
Rene Redzepi
Sorry, yeah.
- [50:49]
Ted Danson
Why?
- [50:49]
Rene Redzepi
I mean, so it's been evolving quite a lot over 21 years. The first original seed was. Here we are in Scandinavia. What actually exists around us at that time? It's so hard to imagine Copenhagen 20 years ago. It's nothing. It's only 20 years ago. But it was such a different scene. Most of Europe was predominantly French food. There was a tiny bit of Italian food around, of course, but mostly there were sort of the trattorias, the affordable places if you wanted something, the so called fine dining. It was all French food and most foods were imported. I had worked in a French restaurant. I had traveled the world. I worked in France myself. I also worked in America, actually, at the French Laundry. In 2001, I worked in Spain. And when I came back, the question was very simple, what else is around us? And so we open with that promise to look into that, but never expecting it to turn into what it did, obviously. And there was a very specific moment when I realized this was going to be something that I could live my life in. And when we opened in 2003, it was November 24, it was cold. And we had by that time promised the world that we'd focus on our local terroir, as it's called. It's a French term that expresses your local seasonality. And, you know, you realize, wow, what we have around us are cabbages and beets and so on and so forth. And I would very quickly find myself in search of ingredients. I would be reading books that I'd never read before. Usually I would read books about three Michelin star restaurants in France, and suddenly I was reading army survival manuals for the Nordics. I would be reading foraging books or, you know, books that tells us what we have of foodstuff in the ocean. And then the first spring, I would simply just go and start looking for all these ingredients. And in 2004, I think it's April or May. I'm on a beach north of Copenhagen full of rocks, rotten seaweed everywhere, and a patch of green comes through. I walk towards it instinctively, not knowing what it is. I did a lot of stupid things back then, just tasting stuff. And I snap these plants and they crackle like. It has a sound like when you cut into a watermelon, you know, that sound like. And then I bite into it and it's the taste of coriander. And it was a moment. I couldn't believe it. I thought I was tasting something wrong. It turns out that we have this plant growing indigenously in the Nordics. It looks like seagrass and it's thick and juicy and it has the same flavor compound as coriander or cilantro, I guess some people call it. And so it was like a moment, a moment of discovery. Can you imagine as a person that lives A life in flavor. And you discover that right next to you. And that was truly the moment when I said, if we have coriander growing right there, what else do we have? And it fueled this frantic discovery search of discovery throughout our region. That simply fueled our innovation, fueled our creativity, and very, very importantly, it grounded us. And it grounded me. You know, I was, and I guess I still am, but back then I felt very much like, you know, I'm raised in Denmark, but I didn't feel that Danish because of my family background. They were actually Muslims. I'm not a Muslim myself today, but my family are. And it just grounded me. I'm like, wow, this is where I am. This is where I'll cook. And these are my ingredients. And I will now try to put it together in a way that challenges me, my team, and surprises our guests. And that's when we also discovered the term, which has become our philosophical guideline, which is time and place. Another very simple phrase, but incredibly difficult to actually get to experience daily. Where in the world are you? What time of the year is it? And for you to take in that moment as a guest is something we have to help through what we eat, through what we serve and how we serve you. And the thing is, when you eat food, every day is a little different. No, no day tastes the same. Most people will know this. When I give an example of strawberries, you are at the market and you buy the strawberries, they're so good. And you go the following Sunday, and they're a little bit different. And okay, that's just how it is that week. They're different. But when you're actually a cook, that changes your cooking. You know that every day is a little different. And so every day, it's a new time and place, and you have to make your guest take it in. And it's hard having guests be ready to use their senses and just tap out. That's actually why we have this 100 long meter pathway that you described early in the podcast, because I want people to. It's like a portal. Forget about your phone for a little bit. Can we just tap out and can you just be here right now and take in this moment? We, We've been working. And we've been working for 20 years for you to be here, you know, so just do us that one favor. Just be here now and. But it's hard. It's really, really, really hard for people. I mean, it's actually crazy what's been. What's how quickly that whole technology side have changed how people dine out and how they experience food. And, I mean, I can remember the first time a guest pulled up a camera phone and started recording me. And back then, it was unheard of. It was actually deeply rude at that time. Yes. Are you filming me? And today, that's just. You gotta accept it. You know, it happens all the time, but it takes away something. And it's harder for everyone to kind of make people take in the moment of a soup, you know, because they need first the seven photos. And I take photos, too, don't get me wrong. But, yeah, there's just something that we're losing, I think, unfortunately.
- [58:11]
Ted Danson
I agree, I agree. You know, it's very much in a. Well, there's a similarity between the difference between theater and film. Theater. Every night's different. Every night it can go in any direction. An audience member coughs, and all of a sudden the focus of everything on stage changes, you know, but it's. You're capturing something in that moment that will never be the same again. It's that moment, which is kind of the exciting thing about theater. I'd love to move on, because I don't want to keep you. I know you've got a huge day ahead of you, but Omnivore. Yeah, I'd love to talk about that. And one of the things, what we've been describing, I think what you've been describing, and maybe you say it in Omnivore, is, and I'm going to butcher this, but I loved it. But how we choose to eat, what and how we, you know, choose to eat, will define how we will be able to live on this earth. Am I close to what you said or something?
- [59:20]
Rene Redzepi
Yeah, no, it's. It's. The sentiment is definitely there. But I think what we're trying to convey in a very positive and respectful and not in a judgmental way, with a sort of a pointed finger to people, is that food is the most important thing that we have. And if we learn to value it better, eat better, and make better choices, when we buy stuff, we will be healthier and the earth will be healthier. It's as simple as that. And also very difficult, of course. So that is at the core of Omnivore. It's to fuel and ignite a curiosity about the stuff that we eat. And to go home and look at your cup of coffee and think, huh, I wonder where this coffee is from. Who's behind my coffee? Actually, what family made this happen for me? There are a lot of hands that.
- [60:18]
Ted Danson
Are Touching your coffee, literally watching a hand or many hands pick those beans and realize and think about how many beans you put in your bean grinder, you know, to make your cup of coffee. That's a lot of hand picked beans. It really hit home watching that how.
- [60:39]
Rene Redzepi
And then it's so affordable as well.
- [60:41]
Ted Danson
Yeah.
- [60:42]
Rene Redzepi
You know, it's like there's something within the way we eat and the way we produce our food that is going to change and frankly needs to change, but it also will change. And some things that we take for granted today will be much more expensive and will probably be considered more of a treat. Let's say fantastic chocolate could be one of them. Or even a great cup of coffee could be something that's going to come at a more expense. But even, you know, food might be, if we're going to change things, it might be more expensive to just eat, but it might also make us healthier and the planet can breathe better and live better.
- [61:39]
Ted Danson
And there'll be something ethical about what it is you're eating because those people who, who made that possible for you will be getting paid perhaps a living wage as opposed to, you know, the people who are picking the coffee. A lot of times don't, you know, so many middlemen make money that I think they're. I, you did this also gently. You never wagged your finger.
- [62:06]
Rene Redzepi
Because I don't think it works.
- [62:07]
Ted Danson
No, it does.
- [62:08]
Rene Redzepi
I don't think it works and I'm frankly also very tired of it.
- [62:12]
Ted Danson
And we're all guilty of it. We all. I, you know, I'm, I'm sure I'm eating things a lot of times that are of course, Monsanto, you know, yeah, run, but I've eaten them, you know, so. Shaking your finger, you know, anyway, go on.
- [62:30]
Rene Redzepi
Yeah, no, of course you can't. I mean, you can't. Everyone has a, there's a paradox to everything and everyone is a hypocrite. But you still have to try the best you can. And I don't think shaming people or telling someone, hey, what you've been doing up until now in your life, you're just an idiot or something like that. As opposed to inspiring people to say, hey, there's also this way. It's actually really something and it might really make you feel better and if you are open to it, it might even make you a more curious person. And curiosity is a very good thing to have, you know, because if you're curious about the world, you're more, you're an optimist at heart. I Think. And. And the end result of many of these choices will be that, hey, in order for my cup of coffee to be cheap or my Snickers bar to be at the price point, no, no lakes or no trees were harmed or no people were harmed in this. In this transaction, you know, and I mean, yeah, so we're trying to inspire people and not shame people or make people fearful because I think they just zoom out because I do it. You know, if I'm seeing something online and is yet another kind of call for the end of something. And there is a lot to be fearful of, but we have to be hopeful, very optimistic, because that energy is what we need.
- [64:16]
Ted Danson
Yes. And the only way you.
- [64:18]
Rene Redzepi
The other one. The other energy is just a spiral that draws you into not doing anything and, you know, you're sort of frozen.
- [64:31]
Ted Danson
Yeah, I agree. I mean, the way I love my. I'm sure Jane Fonda did not make this up, this phrase, but if, you know, you need to live with hope, you need to. But the way you get hope is by taking action, you know, and then you. You know, then you'll do your best to make these things happen, and you'll have hope in your heart while you're doing it. And it's a hell of a lot better way to live than in fear and inactivity or being overwhelmed because you're right. Then you get depressed and you quit.
- [65:07]
Rene Redzepi
Yeah. But don't get me wrong. I have fears too often. And when you raise three young daughters and you want, you know, you want them to grow up healthy and strong and in a world that's like, you know, ready for them to just take the most out of it. So, yeah, I get fearful, too, but I've been in those moments of heavy dread and where everything seemed like, okay, you know, it's a spiral of negativity, but coming out of it and actually focusing on the. On the positive, on the hopefulness, on the energy, on change and doing what you can and inspiring people, I found that to be incredibly powerful.
- [65:58]
Ted Danson
This isn't none of my business kind of question, but you work so hard. How do your daughters and your wife, how are they? How are they?
- [66:14]
Rene Redzepi
Well, you know, me and Nadine, we work together. She's here daily, and the kids and the restaurant is kind of, you know, almost a home as well.
- [66:26]
Ted Danson
Right.
- [66:26]
Rene Redzepi
My oldest daughter, she definitely grew up at Noma. She used to serve quite a bit. Even when she was 8, 9, 10 years old, she would serve food, and she'd spend every Saturday with me at the restaurant. My middle daughter as well, my youngest daughter, not so much. But also because we have a different schedule today. Today we're only open four days a week. It was a little different back in the opening days. So I have much more free time actually to sort of be the best version of a father and a husband. But I can tell you that tomorrow, me and Nadine, we have a 19 year anniversary.
- [67:08]
Ted Danson
So well done.
- [67:09]
Rene Redzepi
And I, I still very deeply love her. I really do. And my kids are 10, 13 and almost 17.
- [67:19]
Ted Danson
So, yeah, that's not a bad place to end. But I do want to encourage people to go to, what is it, Apple TV and look at Omnivore. It is so beautifully shot and so sensitive and things I didn't even think about, you know, are there. And it's just really beautiful. It's a lovely thing. Are you going to do more of that? Are you going to do more production?
- [67:45]
Rene Redzepi
We would love to. At the end of the day, it depends. I think there's like a three, four months period and then they see if the numbers add up, if enough people watched it and if that's the case, then it's going to happen again. But we already have the ideas for not just the next season, but the following season as well, ready to go.
- [68:06]
Ted Danson
Well, if you need an older character actor to walk by in the background, please, I'm available. Or if you need Woody Harrelson, walk into wherever you are and do something wildly inappropriate and funny.
- [68:19]
Rene Redzepi
Yeah, it might take you up on both things.
- [68:21]
Ted Danson
Just so you know, I cannot tell you how happy I am that I got to. Selfishly that I got to thank you and describe what it meant to me and to my wife to be in the midst of all that creativity and love. So thank you, Renee. Really appreciate it.
- [68:40]
Rene Redzepi
No, thank you so much. It means a lot. Thank you.
- [68:51]
Ted Danson
Thank you so much for joining me for this bonus episode with Rene Redzepi. His Apple TV plus series is called Omnivore and it is truly great. I highly recommend that you watch it. Hello to Woody. I miss you, buddy. And special thanks to our friends at Team Coco. If you enjoyed this bonus episode, please send it to someone you love. If you haven't already, please subscribe on your favorite podcast app and give us a great rating and review on Apple Podcasts. We'll have more for you next week. Everybody knows your name. You've been listening to where everybody knows your name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson sometimes.
- [69:34]
Rene Redzepi
The show is produced by me, Nick Leal.
- [69:37]
Ted Danson
Executive producers are Adam Sachs Colin Anderson, Jeff Ross and myself.
- [69:41]
Rene Redzepi
Sarah Fedorovich is our supervising producer.
- [69:44]
Ted Danson
Our senior producer is Matt Apodaca. Engineering and mixing by Joanna C. Samuel with support from Eduardo Perez. Research by Alyssa Grohl. Talent booking by Paula Davis and Gina Batista.
- [69:54]
Rene Redzepi
Our theme music is by Woody Harrelson.
- [69:56]
Ted Danson
Anthony Genn, Mary Steenbergen and John Osborne. Special thanks to Willie Navarre. We'll have more for you next time where everybody knows your name.
- [70:10]
Rene Redzepi
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