Episode Summary: "Drew Carey & Marc Vahanian"

Podcast: Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson (sometimes)
Date: March 4, 2026
Guests: Drew Carey, Marc Vahanian
Host(s): Ted Danson (Woody not present; referenced jokingly at the end)
Focus: Friendship, redemption, and reimagining justice with personal stories from Drew, Mark, and formerly incarcerated people.

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the power of forgiveness, redemption, and second chances—both in the criminal justice system and personal life journeys. Ted Danson hosts Drew Carey (comedian and TV host) and Marc Vahanian (founder of Pathway to Kinship), alongside several formerly incarcerated individuals via recorded testimonials, to talk about rehabilitation, recovery, and how society might rethink punitive approaches to crime. The conversation is peppered with humor, frank storytelling, and heartfelt moments, as the guests explore alternative models to incarceration, personal change, and the ripple effects of offering genuine pathways to redemption.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Creation and Work of Pathway to Kinship

(01:29, 02:17–03:00)

• Pathway to Kinship helps formerly and currently incarcerated men and women reintegrate into society by providing access to homes, jobs, essential services, and personal support.
• Drew Carey and Marc Vahanian's friendship: Drew credits Mark, his former trainer, for helping him after a heart attack and later staying connected through the journey of Pathway to Kinship.
• "You tried to get me to drink a protein shake," Drew jokes (23:19), reflecting on how Mark influenced his health habits and life choices.

"They actually know how to use a cell phone, unfortunately."
— Mark Vahanian, on the realities of incarcerated people's adaptation (02:50)

2. Personal Journeys: Health, Acting, and Reinvention

(03:10–16:18)

• Drew’s Heart Attack Story: Heart attack on the set of The Drew Carey Show, ignoring the symptoms, eating chili spaghetti afterwards.
  • "I had all these heart attack, like, symptoms... And then we went to Bob’s Big Boy." (06:21 – Drew Carey)
• Mark's Career Evolution: From Broadway child actor, to fitness trainer, to justice reform leader.
  • "Hollywood...was not really interested in what I had to offer. Broke my heart." (15:41 – Mark Vahanian)
  • Ties with notable figures: Trained Johnny Cochran for 15 years, including during the O.J. trial (17:04)

3. Lessons from Acting to Life – Judgment, Self-Acceptance, and Fear

(10:33–13:52)

• Both discuss acting workshops focused on "self-expression and playing full out"—the core lesson being self-acceptance and facing fear of judgment.
  • "The biggest thing you have to get over as an actor is the fear of judgment, right?" (12:26 – Drew Carey)
  • These are the same challenges faced by those reentering society after incarceration.
  • Notable joke:
    "I was in Romeo and Juliet, end of the play I was still alive." (11:23 – Drew Carey)

4. On Forgiveness, Shame, and the Criminal Justice System

(13:10–35:08; especially 23:19–30:50)

• Drew discusses his interest in criminal justice and his evolving views on forgiveness:

  • "There's a concept of forgiveness that a lot of us don't practice. Or if it’s a forgiveness, it’s a conditional forgiveness." (01:10, revisited at 25:17)
  • Emphasizes how hard it is to forgive oneself—which mirrors the struggles of those with a criminal record.
  • "Treat people like children... there’s a lot of people, you come across a new thing, you don’t know how to react so you throw a tantrum... You don’t do that to a kid, so why do it to a person?" (27:26 – Drew Carey)
  • Critique of three strikes laws: "Three strikes comes from baseball. Has no business being in a criminal justice system." (28:24)

• Marc on Survivors Speaking in Prison:

  • Pathway to Kinship programs bring survivors of crime to speak inside, fostering empathy and possibilities for redemption.
  • "To a person, [they] say... you too are redeemable, you too are lovable. And it blows their minds." (30:50 – Mark Vahanian)

5. Redefining Public Safety, Recidivism, and Practical Approaches

(34:27–47:21)

• Economics of Incarceration:

  • "It costs somewhere around $100,000 a year to keep one person inside." (34:27 – Mark Vahanian)
  • About 90% will return to society. Better to help returnees succeed—cheaper and safer for all.
  • High recidivism among young offenders, but those who serve long terms (15+ years) rarely reoffend—1.5% recidivism rate for that group.

• Resistance to Change:

  • Many—understandably—feel deep anger or fear at the idea of rehabilitation for serious offenders.

• Model of Rehabilitation: Norway

  • "Norway is really up... [They take] a more humane approach, more holistic approach. The officers don’t carry guns..." (47:21–47:57)
  • "Cheaper, better, makes your street safer" is the real appeal, not just 'softness'.
  • Prison staff in Norway act more as mentors; inmates are treated as humans, not enemies—this leads to much lower recidivism.

6. Childhood, Socialization, and Early Intervention

(43:07–46:49)

• Importance of starting mental health and empathy education young.
• Ted references Angels at Risk, a program fostering parent-child communication and empathy in schools.
• Drew: "I'd rather spend $100,000 on a therapist's salary to talk to 20 kids and teach them life lessons... and then you save $2 million a year having them in prison." (46:09–46:49)
• Need for social investments vs. vengeance: "You’re going to have to give up righteousness, vengeance..." (46:49 – Ted Danson)

Memorable Moments and Quotes

• On Self-Acceptance and Recovery After Prison:

  • "I was called everything except a human from the day I was born until the day I decided to make that change in my life... I got free, you know. I’m staying free." (57:12 – Formerly Incarcerated Participant)

• Power of Empathy and Survivors’ Voice:

  • "I have found out a way to use my compassion and empathy to reach kids like my son and like the person responsible for my son’s death." (55:38 – Empathy Curriculum Speaker)

• On Being Allowed Into Prisons to Help:

  • "Brant Choate...was the first person to open the door for me personally...There’s people trying to do good work." (62:11 – Mark Vahanian)

• On Self-Improvement and Forgiveness:

  • "You can be kind, loving person and be selfish about it... I just want to chill. And forgiveness and love is the way to do it." (51:16 – Drew Carey)

• On Failure, Shame, and Growth:

  • "I was, like, famous on the Drew Carey Show... putting up newspapers on all the mirrors in my house so I didn't have to look at myself in the mirror, because I hated myself so much." (64:51 – Drew Carey)

• On Redemption and Making Amends:

  • "If you take a life, you can't undo that. But we can start giving back and we can make living amends and we can make some direct amends." (39:16 – Mark Vahanian)

• On The Need for Community Support:

  • "Second chances truly don't start at the gate for all of us, they truly start from inside." (58:37 – Formerly Incarcerated Woman)

Testimonies from Formerly Incarcerated and Impacted People

(55:12–60:58)

• Stories of coming home after decades in prison, becoming mentors for those still inside.
• Empathy curriculum born from tragedy, helping break the cycle of violence.
• The fragility of reentry when support and resources are lacking; the value of preparation and peer mentorship.
• The necessity of rehabilitation programming and the commitment to giving back.

Final Reflections & Action Steps

Personal and Societal Calls

• Mark: "We can help more people with more funds... pathwaytokinship.org."

  • "I've been met with violence, I've been robbed, I've been beaten... I got lucky. I got help. None of the people I meet had the good fortune of a two-parent family... but these folks are worth it." (68:59 – Mark Vahanian)
  • "One of the gifts of this work is bringing people together who can have shared experience, both people who are 'offenders' and survivors." (69:00)

• Ted: Expresses gratitude for Mark and Drew’s honesty and vulnerability; underscores the value of supporting redemption and not just punishment.

• Drew: Shares his ongoing journey—once unable to look at himself in the mirror, still learning, but now striving to be a decent person.

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Intro to Episode Theme: 01:29
• What Pathway to Kinship Does: 02:17–03:00
• Drew's Heart Attack Story: 03:10–09:07
• Lifelong Battles with Shame & Forgiveness: 25:17–33:19
• Societal Cost of Incarceration: 34:27–35:56
• Norway Model of Prison Reform: 47:21–49:39
• Testimonies from Kinship Participants: 55:12–60:58
• Final Appeals & How to Get Involved: 67:54–70:13

Notable Quotes by Timestamp

• [01:10] Drew Carey: "There's a concept of forgiveness that a lot of us don't practice. Or if it's a forgiveness, it's a conditional forgiveness."
• [23:19] Drew Carey: "I barely touched a vegetable when I met him, honestly... And even to this day... I'm like, man, 20 years ago I wouldn't have touched this."
• [28:24] Drew Carey: "Three strikes comes from baseball. Has no business being in a criminal justice system."
• [30:50] Mark Vahanian: "These folks come in and they share the story, but they're not coming in with hate... They say... you too are redeemable. You too are lovable."
• [34:27] Mark Vahanian: "It costs somewhere around $100,000 a year to keep one person inside..."
• [47:57] Mark Vahanian: "Cheaper, better, make your streets safer is beautiful."
• [58:37] Formerly Incarcerated Woman: "Second chances truly don't start at the gate for all of us, they truly start from inside."
• [62:57] Ted Danson: "You are so fucking cool. I love sitting here listening to you talk..."
• [64:51] Drew Carey: "I was like, famous on the Drew Carey Show...putting up newspapers on all the mirrors in my house so I didn't have to look at myself in the mirror, because I hated myself so much."

Tone and Style

The conversation is honest, empathetic, humorous, and hopeful, with moments of vulnerability and camaraderie. Drew Carey brings his characteristic wit and self-effacing humor, while Ted Danson's warmth creates a safe space for the tough conversations. Mark Vahanian’s humility and passion for helping create a strong emotional core.

HOW TO HELP

• Pathway to Kinship: Support, donate, and learn more at pathwaytokinship.org

Closing Note

This episode is both a call to personal growth and an invitation to reimagine how society responds to those who fall. In the spirit of Cheers: everyone is worthy of grace, everyone longs to be known.