← Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson (sometimes)
Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson (sometimes)
Glen and Les Charles
00:57:57
Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson are paying homage to the co-creators of Cheers, Glen and Les Charles! The Charles brothers talk with Ted and Woody about how they went from working on shows like The Mary Tyler Moore Show and Taxi to creating Cheers, how they cast the series regulars, and what Shelley Long’s departure meant for the show. Bonus: Ted asks the brothers to confirm that he in fact vouched for Woody. To help those affected by the Southern California wildfires, make a donation to World Central Kitchen today. Like watching your podcasts? Visit http://youtube.com/teamcoco to see full episodes.
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- [00:00]
Ted Danson
Where everybody knows your name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson sometimes is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.
- [00:33]
Woody Harrelson
As close to a flawless cast as I've seen.
- [00:35]
Les Charles
All right, name names. Why did you say close to? Who are you thinking of when you said close? Welcome back to where everybody knows your name with. With me, Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson. Sometimes. Today, Woody and I are talking with two guys who, if they had never been born, you wouldn't know either of our names. You certainly wouldn't be listening to this podcast. I'm talking about Glenn and Les Charles, the screenwriters and producers who co created Cheers along with Jimmy Burrows. Beyond Cheers, the Charles brothers wrote for so many shows that taught America how to laugh together. Think Taxi, the Mary Tyler Moore show, and the Bob Newhart Show. I'm so glad Woody was able to join us from London via Zoom for this special conversation. These two mean so much to us. Here they are, our friends, Glenn and Les Charles. So the whole reason why we did this was to be able to reminisce about those amazing 11 years. So this opportunity to come and sit down with you guys 30 years later and say thank you is, you know, thank you.
- [02:00]
Glenn Charles
Yeah, well, thank you. You guys are. Without the two of you, it wouldn't have been a Cheers. Without Woody, we'd have gone five years now. Well, three years. Three years and done. Yeah, he saved our asses.
- [02:15]
Les Charles
Well, let's jump.
- [02:17]
Kelsey Grammer
That's kind to you, but you'd have kept going regardless. That show's just too good. It's too genius. The writing, extraordinary.
- [02:26]
Les Charles
Tell me about the casting of Woody, how you first met Woody, what your impressions were, and all of the above.
- [02:32]
Woody Harrelson
Well, the interesting thing is we had cast. We had actually named the character Woody Woody. But before we even read an actor, we named him Woody before we'd ever heard of the character of Woody.
- [02:45]
Glenn Charles
In fact, nobody had ever heard of Woody at that point.
- [02:48]
Woody Harrelson
Anyway, we said, we want kind of a country bumpkin kind of guy, somebody from Iowa, Ohio, farm boy. And here's the big city of Boston. So he's a little naive. He needs to learn things. So we read a guy that was right on the money, and I can't remember even remember his name, so his name was John.
- [03:11]
Kelsey Grammer
It's like John. John Piltz. John something.
- [03:17]
Glenn Charles
I haven't Start with a P. And.
- [03:19]
Woody Harrelson
He was, you know, elated. And. And then our casting director, Steve Kozak, said, I know you think you've got your man, but I just saw something. I think there's somebody you might want to look at, if not for this, for something else. So he said, sure, we'll do that, Tony.
- [03:38]
Glenn Charles
Meantime, this John had gone out and bought a car and.
- [03:41]
Woody Harrelson
Yeah, rented a new. Got married.
- [03:43]
Les Charles
And he's now listening. He's listening 40 years later going.
- [03:49]
Glenn Charles
He'S in AA now.
- [03:54]
Woody Harrelson
And so we looked, we read Woody, and we said we should. We were very interested. And we had.
- [04:03]
Les Charles
Had you come in for the second read, or was that.
- [04:07]
Woody Harrelson
No, it was the first.
- [04:08]
Les Charles
Right.
- [04:08]
Woody Harrelson
Right after we done read Woody ourselves, we said, have Ted come in.
- [04:15]
Glenn Charles
We always wanted to do that whenever we could on Cheers as, you know, read actors together, audition actors together to see the chemistry, not just how good they are by themselves, but how they interrupt.
- [04:26]
Les Charles
And I think it's good for Woody to hear that. I was all in favor of him, if you could say that, so he could hear it.
- [04:32]
Glenn Charles
You were. You were what?
- [04:33]
Les Charles
Oh, crying out loud.
- [04:36]
Glenn Charles
Fought like hell.
- [04:37]
Woody Harrelson
We had no effing way.
- [04:40]
Les Charles
No, he's too young. He's too cool. Get him out of my sight.
- [04:44]
Woody Harrelson
I. I remember very well. You said, I know you think you've got your guy, but this guy's more interesting and. Okay, okay.
- [04:53]
Glenn Charles
So we brought a little something more to the. To the part. Yeah, a lot more.
- [04:58]
Woody Harrelson
And the guy. The other guy, as I said, was kind of right on the money, but Woody was not exactly. He was the part. Everything we wanted in the part, but a little more and just.
- [05:11]
Les Charles
He's a dangerous motherfucker.
- [05:13]
Woody Harrelson
There was this element of danger.
- [05:15]
Glenn Charles
There is element.
- [05:16]
Woody Harrelson
Crazy as hell.
- [05:17]
Glenn Charles
You know, it's interesting, the lines.
- [05:20]
Woody Harrelson
We lost three major characters on Cheers. Three major characters. We lost Nick Colisano, coach. We replaced him with Woody. Step in the right direction. We lost Shelley and got Kirsty.
- [05:33]
Les Charles
Yeah.
- [05:34]
Woody Harrelson
And who is the other one? I don't know.
- [05:38]
Glenn Charles
You're out.
- [05:38]
Les Charles
I was thinking, too, but.
- [05:40]
Kelsey Grammer
But hold it. So tell me about. Because that seemed to me almost insurmountable when Shelley was leaving after.
- [05:48]
Woody Harrelson
Oh, a lot of.
- [05:49]
Kelsey Grammer
I'd been there two years. It was the fifth year.
- [05:51]
Woody Harrelson
Right.
- [05:52]
Kelsey Grammer
She. She did the fifth year, and then she was leaving. And tell me what your mindset was.
- [05:57]
Glenn Charles
Like, pure panic?
- [06:00]
Woody Harrelson
No, there were some critics that said when Shelly walks out the door, that's the End of Cheers. And we had to sort of live with that because that was this element of the show. A main element of the show was the Sam Diane courtship and battle. But we only just signed on for five years. Anyway, her contract was up. It didn't like she said, I'm out of here. She did say, I'm out of here. But she was allowed to do that. She was having a certain amount of success in film and thought she had a career in film. So we can't fight that with one thing we decided to do. Let's not just try and fill in Sam's life with another lady. Let's make it maybe if there was a way to get a woman that they had a. He was at odds with, like a superior, like somebody who works for the company that owns chairs. So Sam has to kind of report to her, and she needs to be attractive and everything. And so we read a couple of later, but Kirsty was right. We went and saw Cameron Hot Tin Roof at the Amundsen Theater. And Kirsty was in that. Wow, interesting as hell. But I don't know how funny she can be. But that's. Then we decided, well, she doesn't have to be that funny because all the other characters around her are funny. So she can. And she's an actress. She's a very good actress. She's obviously very sexy and interesting to watch. But it came around that she could be funny, too. She was. I forget. She was a really good drunk and.
- [07:48]
Les Charles
Also a woman who could play desperation.
- [07:53]
Woody Harrelson
Oh, yeah.
- [07:53]
Les Charles
You know, on the verge of a nervous breakdown and be moving and still be funny.
- [08:00]
Glenn Charles
In fact, a nervous breakdown, not the verge. She would go all the way. Yes.
- [08:06]
Woody Harrelson
He was a great find.
- [08:08]
Kelsey Grammer
You know, I watched the other day, Lorne Michael sent me this clip from. You know, there was that one Cheers, where we all are. Not Cheers. Snl, where we all showed up and surprised her. Or maybe she already knew. I forget. But then there was another one that I hadn't seen, and it was where all these guys from the cast were pretending to be our characters coming and. And. But anyway, when she was talking about Cheers and missing everybody, the emotional depth and range. This is an SNL monologue. I was. I was so astounded by her ability, you know, I mean, I. I'm not astounded. It just. I hadn't seen her in a while, and it just was like, oh, my God, I forgot how well she can go there, you know? Well, how deep she can go.
- [09:02]
Glenn Charles
God, I would love to see that. That snl, it's.
- [09:05]
Kelsey Grammer
It is so good.
- [09:07]
Les Charles
I'm glad we're talking about Kirsty because it's just. I mean, it's been a while since she passed away, but it was so out of the blue and so startling and to lose somebody who you spent so much time laughing and giggling and admiring and hanging. So, you know, three cheers to Kirsty Alley.
- [09:33]
Glenn Charles
One of the things she brought to the show, too, above and beyond her performance was just. She was a great person to have around. She was just. She was a great broad. She was hung with the guys and got drunk and carried on. It was a. I can't. Yeah, I can't remember jolt of energy.
- [09:52]
Les Charles
Who said that? She was like a biker chick from hell. Remember, she would have all of us over, the entire crew and cast and writer everybody, then everybody to her house for either Easter or something. And there'd be animals all over her property, and kids loved going out and hanging with her.
- [10:17]
Glenn Charles
Some of those animals, I still don't.
- [10:18]
Les Charles
Know what those were illegal.
- [10:23]
Glenn Charles
And for good reason. I still got a rash from one of them.
- [10:29]
Les Charles
Can we back up? Because while we're on the subject of ladies and we'll get to Ria in a minute, but Kirsty Shelley Long. I've said it, you all. I, I know I've said it in print, but Shelley really gave the first year or two or three the boost that Shears needed because she, she landed into her part feet first on the pilot and was astounding and unlike any other character we've seen since. Maybe, you know, I Love Lucy or something.
- [11:04]
Glenn Charles
Yeah, we said often that we're not sure that Church would have survived without Shelley in that first season because she was so strong and so confident, knew exactly who the character was and who she was. And I think all of the rest of you were finding your way a little bit.
- [11:20]
Les Charles
Kiss my ass, you know, that's so rude.
- [11:26]
Woody Harrelson
Well, you had to learn.
- [11:28]
Glenn Charles
You had to learn how to throw a baseball, Ted.
- [11:30]
Les Charles
I had to learn so much. But this is pre Woody. Woody came in full fledged, too. But, yeah, I was, I was.
- [11:38]
Glenn Charles
Yeah, Woody came. Yeah, it was pretty honest Fe.
- [11:41]
Woody Harrelson
Right from the beginning.
- [11:41]
Glenn Charles
Yeah.
- [11:42]
Les Charles
I can't remember, did you leap over the bar in the first episode? Was that.
- [11:49]
Kelsey Grammer
Remember Jimmy asked, you think you could jump over? And I said, yeah, I think so. But I was gonna. I, I wanted to. I just feel like we've gotten a little ahead of the game here because I wanted to get back to when you guys were working on Taxi together, right? And. And obviously Jimmy was there and just how things came about, you know, like how it all. How the first idea came and everything for Cheers.
- [12:16]
Les Charles
Yeah, and how you and Jimmy Burroughs hooked up together.
- [12:21]
Glenn Charles
We were working with Jimmy going back to the MTM days. So by the time we got to Cheers, we'd had six or seven years together. We were not a partnership at mtm, but we did happen to work on a lot of shows together. He was doing a lot of shows at mtm, hopping around a little bit, and we were on Phyllis and then the Bob Newhart show. And yeah, we just hooked up and we hit it off right away. We were. We. We came into the business about the same time, so we kind of were the new kids in the organization and. And kind of grew up together, the three of us.
- [12:58]
Les Charles
And then somebody gave you a deal to develop something and that.
- [13:02]
Glenn Charles
And that became. Became Cheers. You know, we went to Taxi. They brought us over from MTM to do. To do Taxi. And we were producing and he was directing. We did all the. All of those shows for four years together. So, yeah, we had it worked out. Worked out. The partnership.
- [13:18]
Woody Harrelson
We got along and we were. We were united. We had a executive producer that was. Was very talented, but not all that easy to deal with. And so we kind of. That kind of bonded us.
- [13:36]
Kelsey Grammer
Was his name Ed or Jim?
- [13:39]
Woody Harrelson
Yes. So we were united, and we had the same agent, and we were got. We got. We won Emmys for writing and the Shun Emmys. And so we. Our agent said, why don't you form partnership? And we said, okay. And we formed a partnership and announced that we were leaving and to do our own show. And of course, they tried to talk us out of it, but they understood. They understood that we would never be the runners, the ultimate voices on Taxi. We. We wanted our own show, right? And so we learned a lot from Taxi besides learning how to deal with people, all sorts of people. People. So we thought we. We didn't want to be in a. Nothing like a garage because the garage was dirty and smoky, and you don't want to be there. You don't want to be in a garage. So where do you want to be?
- [14:47]
Glenn Charles
Where do we want.
- [14:48]
Woody Harrelson
We want to be in a. In a bar. And so we got bar. New York had been used as a location city by everybody. God, San Francisco. Eastern's better. So somebody brought up Boston. I, at that point, hadn't even been to Boston. And when I first went and saw it, I thought, oh, God, yes, this is the bell. This is the place so actually, we.
- [15:10]
Glenn Charles
Wrote the first script before we'd been to Boston with this presumptuous.
- [15:16]
Les Charles
Yes.
- [15:18]
Glenn Charles
And before we'd ever been in a bar, too. So we just. Using our.
- [15:22]
Woody Harrelson
So we took care of that one strip. Right. So we. And we were. We had a very good casting director, and we looked through a lot of people and we. And we had time. We had time. There was no rush put on us. It was our show.
- [15:42]
Glenn Charles
Interestingly, the reason we had so much time is there was a writers strike just as we were ready to go on the show. The writers went out so we could do nothing. The business was at a halt. So all we had to do was sit around and cast day after day after day. And all the actors were available because all of their stuff was closed and nobody had work. We read everybody for all these parts and some of them two or three times, and it was. Steve Kozak would just not let up on us. He says, I've got three more people. So I think that's one of the secrets of cheer success, is that we had that luxury.
- [16:19]
Les Charles
You also, though, knew Rhea Perlman from both Taxi and I think, a play that she was in or something. So she was one of the first people.
- [16:30]
Woody Harrelson
Mainly Taxi. She was married to Danny.
- [16:33]
Les Charles
Yeah.
- [16:34]
Glenn Charles
And we knew them socially and knew they were friends.
- [16:37]
Les Charles
So you always knew she would be.
- [16:39]
Glenn Charles
Well, we wrote it for her. Yeah. That's the only part that we wrote for it for an actor. And we still read people. We just. Stevie just said, you know, just to make sure you got the. You got the right choice, read a black actress. I remember that was an interesting way to go with Carla. Would have been. But, yeah, that's the. Everybody else. We wrote the part without any specific person in mind.
- [17:06]
Woody Harrelson
Everybody kept saying, shelley Long. You gotta go see Shelley Long. And she wouldn't read, so.
- [17:12]
Kelsey Grammer
Oh, she wouldn't at first.
- [17:13]
Woody Harrelson
At first.
- [17:14]
Glenn Charles
Forever. She wouldn't.
- [17:17]
Woody Harrelson
I don't know why she wouldn't read.
- [17:19]
Glenn Charles
Well, she didn't want to do a TV series. I think she wanted to go right into movies.
- [17:24]
Kelsey Grammer
But at that point, what had she done?
- [17:27]
Glenn Charles
It's a good question.
- [17:29]
Woody Harrelson
That's a really good question. And I. I don't think anything major.
- [17:33]
Les Charles
She gets rebuttal time, man. So just.
- [17:36]
Glenn Charles
No, I don't care. I don't. I don't think so. But I don't think we. No, we didn't. When she walked in, she was a new entity to us. She finally agreed to come in. She wouldn't even come in and say hi.
- [17:51]
Woody Harrelson
But as soon as she read. Oh, God, yes.
- [17:56]
Les Charles
Did even her reading come out full blown?
- [17:58]
Woody Harrelson
Yeah, it was there. She got the character.
- [18:02]
Kelsey Grammer
So you knew right away?
- [18:04]
Glenn Charles
Right away, yeah. We were still doing due diligence. I mean, we were still looking at other actresses and. And did an audition, as you know.
- [18:11]
Woody Harrelson
With three different couples.
- [18:14]
Glenn Charles
Three different couples, yeah. Actually, as it turned out, it was Ted and Shelley, but I don't think we manipulated that in any way.
- [18:22]
Les Charles
Maybe Steve Kozak, our casting, I think he was pushing for that. I think he may have manipulated that.
- [18:30]
Glenn Charles
Yeah, but we weren't actually sure ourselves until after we did that with the three couples. We all went back to the office and we said, what do you think? And we all said, well, there's no question.
- [18:40]
Les Charles
Well, I have Joel Thurm's account of that, which we'll get to. Woody, we interrupted you. What were you going to say?
- [18:46]
Kelsey Grammer
Oh, well, I was just going to say, I mean, like, you didn't talk much about how you ended up casting Mr. Danson. So I want to hear how that all came about.
- [18:58]
Les Charles
Let me go on record first, then you can rebuttal here. I was doing Taxi just out of the blue, somebody fell through, and I got to play this hairdresser on Taxi. And then Jimmy, who I'd met for an audition of True West. Was that the. No, not True west, the Best of the west, and didn't get the part, but he remembered me. So you guys were the beginning stages of casting, and you invited me to come during a lunch hour of shooting the episode of Taxi. And that was the first meeting. And within a couple days, another meeting. And at the end of the second meeting, you said, well, don't. Don't take any other work before you check with us. And I went, so does that mean I've got the part? And you went, no, no, but just check with us.
- [19:52]
Glenn Charles
Not at all first.
- [19:53]
Les Charles
And then literally, there was a back door to where, your office. And there was a front door. I went out the back door and up the stairs was a line of every actor you know, never lived, ever lived, walking up the door. Okay, all right, your turn.
- [20:12]
Glenn Charles
Well, there's two things I remember. The first. The first time your name was ever mentioned to us was Bob Broder, our agent.
- [20:18]
Les Charles
Oh, really? Thank you, Bob.
- [20:20]
Glenn Charles
Yeah, he came in one day and said he had just seen Body. Body Heat. And he said, you should look at the. That guy that was dancing. Or you said, that guy dancing also. One thing I remember from that period is we had one of the executive producers on Taxi. You played a gay character. One of our executive producers was convinced you were gay, positive you were gay. And we said, well, no, he's acting, playing a part. He said, no, I just thought it was funny that somebody who's been in the business that long. Yeah. Couldn't believe that someone could act.
- [20:57]
Les Charles
I hadn't made up my mind.
- [21:01]
Woody Harrelson
Have you now.
- [21:08]
Ted Danson
Say you've always wanted to take a spontaneous trip to the Caribbean. Here's the thing. If you get smart with your money, you can do things like that. With Empower, you can start making the most out of your money so you.
- [21:20]
Les Charles
Can go out and live a little.
- [21:21]
Ted Danson
I mean, isn't that why we work so hard to have some fun with our money, like treating yourself to something special or spontaneously doing something extra for a loved one? So use Empower and get good at money so you can be a little bad. Join their 19 million customers today@empower.com not an Empower client, paid or sponsor.
- [21:45]
Les Charles
San Diego is a place that inspires optimism and positivity like no other place. I was born in San Diego at Mercy Hospital. I love optimism and positivity, so it makes perfect sense that I came from San Diego with friendly and down to earth people year round, sunny weather and dynamic city experiences with a small beach town vibe. It's the quintessential beach city. Whether you're soaking up San Diego's rich cultural experiences like the La Jolla Playhouse or catching live music or a Padres game, there's plenty to keep you enriched when you're not enjoying the beach.
- [22:30]
Ted Danson
I love San Diego.
- [22:31]
Les Charles
I love going down to the docks and watching seaplanes come in and take off. I love the San Diego Zoo. I could go on and on. Happiness is calling. Plan your trip@sandiego.org funded in part with City of San Diego Tourism Marketing District assessment funds.
- [22:52]
Ted Danson
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- [24:15]
Les Charles
Anyhow, when you went back after the we did come down, there were three. Two other actors and actresses, sets and on the stage. And we did audition for the network and the producers and writers and everybody. And then you said you went back to talk about the casting choice. I heard that. Oh, hell, here goes my brain. Mary Tyler Moore's husband, Grant Tinker. Grant, who was the head of NBC at that point.
- [24:45]
Glenn Charles
He was. Yeah, he wasn't there.
- [24:47]
Les Charles
He wasn't in favor of me. According to Joel Thurm, who was the head of NBC casting at the time. In his book, he writes his tell all book that, oh, this is one of those stories that is really complimentary of me, but I'll keep going. Grant said, no, no, no. This other actor I won't mention is one of the best actors in America. How can you not take him?
- [25:13]
Glenn Charles
William Devane.
- [25:15]
Les Charles
Devane, who was one of the best actors. And we have to go with William Devane. And Joel Thurm said, no, no, no, you have to go, Ted, because he's more fuckable, was his quote. Thank you, Woody. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. These guys are sitting here looking at me like, whoa, first off, how misguided. And I can't believe you said that so that I don't remember.
- [25:44]
Glenn Charles
I just. Joether never used that phrase when he was talking casting with us in it for anybody I know.
- [25:49]
Les Charles
Oh, God.
- [25:50]
Glenn Charles
How is he?
- [25:51]
Woody Harrelson
Grant? Grant Tinker said that?
- [25:53]
Les Charles
No, Joel said it to Grant and Grant was so shocked that I think he just decided to give up.
- [26:01]
Glenn Charles
Well, that's a real surprise because Grant never said anything to us.
- [26:04]
Les Charles
Well, I can edit this stupid story out. Trust me.
- [26:08]
Glenn Charles
No, I'm not saying that it's not true.
- [26:10]
Kelsey Grammer
Keep it in.
- [26:12]
Les Charles
Thank you.
- [26:13]
Glenn Charles
No, the great thing about Grant was he never interfered with us.
- [26:17]
Les Charles
Yeah.
- [26:17]
Glenn Charles
As a studio. Even when our ratings were in the dumper. I remember, I think it was the week that we came in dead last in the ratings. We went over to NBC and Grant wrong down the hall and Grant came out of his office and said, don't change anything.
- [26:33]
Les Charles
Yeah.
- [26:34]
Glenn Charles
Just. We were stunned.
- [26:35]
Woody Harrelson
How I remember that.
- [26:36]
Glenn Charles
Wow, he was the best.
- [26:38]
Les Charles
We as a cast Were spoiled because you did never put that pressure, because you must have felt pressure from the ratings, but you never put it on us.
- [26:49]
Woody Harrelson
We felt pressure, but we were sort of bolstered by the reviews and the audience reception to the show. Before we were even on the air, we had to go down to shopping malls and pass out tickets to a show, come see a show filmed, blah, blah, blah.
- [27:08]
Glenn Charles
We didn't get it personally, or did we get one? I think one week.
- [27:13]
Woody Harrelson
We were a week away from doing that. But anyway, remember, our first audience were the Seabees, the group of Seabees from the naval station. And we never had an audience except people that were friends of ours and friends of the actors. And the Seabees absolutely loved it. They didn't even know these characters. That was a big lift. And so we knew we weren't just sort of masturbating. There were people that liked what we were doing and they understood the character. They understood the essence of the character. We showed them the first show. I mean, we shot the first show, I think, in front of the scene. We shot the first show with three different audiences, wasn't it? Two different audiences, and got a great response. And the first, I think, audience was CBs. And then we had an industry audience, people that were agents. And the response was pretty universal, and we felt a lot better. So when the ratings came out and we said, good God, wait, we're not.
- [28:26]
Glenn Charles
On the first page. Second page. How can you get a negative rating? Some people who didn't watch said. And they wouldn't watch, watch. So they didn't subtract for that.
- [28:37]
Les Charles
Yeah.
- [28:39]
Kelsey Grammer
So can I ask a question? You. You're saying you had already shot the show and then you showed the finished product to these two audiences?
- [28:49]
Woody Harrelson
They have been on the air. So we would show. When the. When a new audience came in, we would show them the original episode so that they would understand the story behind.
- [29:00]
Kelsey Grammer
I see. Wow.
- [29:02]
Woody Harrelson
And then when we got on the air, we didn't need to do that, obviously, but. Well, I guess we did for a while because nobody was watching at home.
- [29:09]
Glenn Charles
But.
- [29:10]
Kelsey Grammer
But then. So it was when. I mean, it was at the point where it went into reruns that it started picking up steam because a show.
- [29:20]
Woody Harrelson
Called, I don't know if you've heard of it, Simon and Simon was a detective story on cbs. Huge ratings. And those were the days where pretty much every show took the summer off. So when the summer came around and everybody had watched TV on Thursday night, seeing Simon and Simon, What's This Cheers. And then it also helped that we won an Emmy for best series, best comedy.
- [29:46]
Les Charles
And Shelley won.
- [29:47]
Woody Harrelson
And Shelley won.
- [29:49]
Glenn Charles
And we won. And yeah, we won.
- [29:53]
Les Charles
Oh, the writing. The writing won something.
- [29:56]
Glenn Charles
Believe it or not, slow year. Yeah, and Jimmy won. And yeah, we took a bunch. And that helped a lot. And we got great reviews or reviews. So those things carried us a little bit.
- [30:08]
Kelsey Grammer
But I wanted to ask you guys, because Cheers, famously was the first sitcom to have everything be sequential, like in time, like one connected to the next, to the next. What do you call that? Chronological or whatever.
- [30:22]
Glenn Charles
Up until that time, everybody thought you have to have a show that every week they can tune in and it's starting from ground zero. You can't assume that they've seen shows.
- [30:33]
Les Charles
Before that that's a standalone.
- [30:35]
Glenn Charles
And we sort of said, well, why not? Let's. Let's try it out. And it worked out. And now, of course, with streaming and stuff, they're all like that. You can't really tune into Breaking Bad in the third season and know what the hell's going on.
- [30:48]
Les Charles
Here's what I was going to say.
- [30:49]
Glenn Charles
We were the pioneers.
- [30:50]
Les Charles
Let me go back and say you reshot, if I remember correctly, the last scene of the pilot. You reshot a couple of times. You came back to it once. We were already shooting other episodes and you tweaked the ending just a little bit.
- [31:06]
Glenn Charles
Really?
- [31:07]
Woody Harrelson
I don't recall that.
- [31:08]
Les Charles
Okay, I'm wrong.
- [31:10]
Woody Harrelson
No, no. The ending was. The very end, right before the credits is Shelly is working as a waitress. She came in the first scene with her fiance, Sumner Sloan. And the last scene, she's a waitress in a place she'd put down disparagingly and the people she thought were oafs. So we might have shot that scene more than one time.
- [31:39]
Les Charles
I know we did shoot scenes over again. We had that luxury of being able to come back and shoot an extra scene after we shot a episode.
- [31:48]
Woody Harrelson
Well, we did that. Yeah. Throughout the series, we'd shoot the pickups, as they call them.
- [31:54]
Glenn Charles
When we had a turkey, we'd have to go back and try to. Or when you guys screwed up so badly.
- [32:00]
Les Charles
Speaking of turkey, one of our favorite episodes, the Thanksgiving.
- [32:05]
Glenn Charles
Oh, God. Yeah. There was no going back on that, no reshoot. And by then, about a film, Jimmy.
- [32:14]
Les Charles
And by then we had certain people had opinions of other people and had, you know, slight, not full on grudges, but yeah, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna wing this person.
- [32:25]
Glenn Charles
Oh, really? Was there a little bit of every.
- [32:28]
Les Charles
Once in a While every once in.
- [32:29]
Glenn Charles
The throwing of the peas and oh.
- [32:31]
Woody Harrelson
Definitely no, no, I'd have to go.
- [32:35]
Glenn Charles
Back and watch that again.
- [32:36]
Les Charles
Everyone was aiming at Woody.
- [32:37]
Woody Harrelson
I, I, I, I get more compliments about the Thanksgiving show. I know the cast loved it.
- [32:47]
Les Charles
Yeah, it was a good vent.
- [32:49]
Woody Harrelson
But I think that there's some truth in that because most Thanksgiving dinners go take too long and you get edgy.
- [32:59]
Glenn Charles
And you get hungry and you get.
- [33:00]
Woody Harrelson
Very hungry and yeah, that kind of.
- [33:03]
Kelsey Grammer
Violent.
- [33:06]
Glenn Charles
If given the opportunity. Yes.
- [33:09]
Woody Harrelson
But we were going to be on a story behind that is we were going to be on. We were on Thursdays, as you know, and they used to do for the first few years, we would run a rerun on Thursday night because it's Thanksgiving, you know, so the network that year said, why don't you do a Thanksgiving show? Thanksgiving show, you know, it's not like a Christmas show. I mean, there's things you can do at Christmas, but Thanksgiving, what do you do? People just eat and. Wait a minute.
- [33:43]
Les Charles
That's right.
- [33:45]
Woody Harrelson
We ran out of ideas.
- [33:47]
Glenn Charles
You know, another show that was on Thanksgiving because the network said, oh, no, you can, you can go on Thanksgiving. It's just another night. Nobody cares. We said, oh, wait a minute, nobody watches tv. I don't think so. We bowed it to their, their greater wisdom and Coach's daughter. Remember that from the first season, we had to show that on Thanksgiving. One of, I think, one of the best Cheers episodes ever. Nobody saw it. It had a negative rating, like I say, and it was really a shame we felt so bad about that. But then in repeats, enough people saw it to realize what a gem that was.
- [34:26]
Les Charles
Nikki's Nikki Colasante, who was Woody's predecessor, played the coach. It was kind of a defining moment for his character. You know, you saw he wasn't just the silly man who'd been beamed in the head by baseballs too often. He had such love for his daughter who was thinking that she was plain and not beautiful. It was amazing scene, great performance. And, you know, that kind of points to how Nikki was really kind of the heart and soul of the show, you know, and when he passed away, I think a lot of us also felt in that moment, what do we do now that we've lost this center to the show as far as the heart goes and once again singing your praises, Woody, you came in, you know, just blasting with both barrels and became beloved within, you know, an episode or two. People just immediately embraced your character because of the writing and because of you. But that was pretty amazing to Replace Nicky.
- [35:33]
Glenn Charles
I thought it was a great touch and not to sing the praises of the writing too much. This wasn't my idea, or maybe it was, but I think it helped a great deal that Woody came in having been in contact with the coach. They had exchanged letters, and he was really anxious to meet Coach. And then when he heard he had passed away, Woody was really broken down about it, which the audience went right to Woody at that moment and cemented him taking over the coach's spot.
- [36:10]
Les Charles
And then once he leapt over the bar effortlessly, and I couldn't and had to crawl over it. They really loved him.
- [36:20]
Glenn Charles
That's what we need.
- [36:21]
Les Charles
Well, we need to keep talking trash about people. Georgie. George went tell. Tell us about how, you know, his casting and all of that.
- [36:30]
Woody Harrelson
We worked with George on Taxi. He'd done an appearance on Taxi. We really liked him and thought he. He looked like. He looked like a barfly. He looked like somebody would hang out in the bar.
- [36:41]
Glenn Charles
So actually, he went. Remember he. He did the very first script we ever wrote, that MASH he was in that.
- [36:48]
Woody Harrelson
I don't remember.
- [36:49]
Glenn Charles
Yeah, he played the. The guy who comes to pick up the bodies. He was. Oh, really? Yeah.
- [36:54]
Woody Harrelson
Interesting.
- [36:56]
Glenn Charles
I'm sorry I interrupted, but yeah, so we. We go back away.
- [37:00]
Kelsey Grammer
I. I didn't know you guys wrote on mash.
- [37:02]
Glenn Charles
Just a. Just a couple episodes. A couple of episodes, yeah.
- [37:05]
Kelsey Grammer
Wow.
- [37:06]
Glenn Charles
Before we went on to mtm, that.
- [37:08]
Woody Harrelson
Was our first job. We got a MASH assignment and.
- [37:10]
Glenn Charles
Yeah, we're old Woody. We're.
- [37:14]
Les Charles
That was the Korean War, wasn't it, fellas?
- [37:17]
Glenn Charles
It was Curtia.
- [37:22]
Les Charles
Okay, so you thought of him and wrote towards him, or.
- [37:26]
Glenn Charles
No, no, I interrupted. Glenn. We. We didn't write with him in mine.
- [37:30]
Woody Harrelson
No, we didn't, but somebody brought him up. But he. Remember, he was committed to another series.
- [37:36]
Les Charles
Oh, that's right. We had him on condition after the.
- [37:38]
Woody Harrelson
Pilot, and so we had read other people for. For that role, and we were so heartened when the show he was. He'd been on was not picked up. So we.
- [37:55]
Glenn Charles
But if it had been. Yeah, if that show had been picked up by the network, we'd have lost George. I don't know.
- [38:01]
Les Charles
Hey, do the whole. Norm. The whole bar, people shouting out, norm. What was the origin of that? How did that come about?
- [38:08]
Woody Harrelson
Well, we did that on the first episode, and people started to expect it, and that became. Speaking as a writer, one of the hardest things about writing a cheer script is coming up with what's new, Norm. How you doing, Norm? I was live cheating, you Like, I just ran over its dog, you know?
- [38:30]
Les Charles
Do you have favorites? Can you remember?
- [38:33]
Glenn Charles
They sound so casual and like you could come right out of the top of your head. But every time we came to a normism, everybody would put down the script and, okay, it's going to be happening.
- [38:45]
Les Charles
I remember it's a doggy dog world and I'm wearing. What was it I'm wearing?
- [38:50]
Glenn Charles
Milk bone underwear.
- [38:51]
Kelsey Grammer
Wearing milk bone underwear.
- [38:55]
Glenn Charles
That's. That might be the most quoted joke.
- [38:57]
Les Charles
Yeah.
- [38:58]
Glenn Charles
In Cheers, we had him on.
- [39:00]
Les Charles
He's. He's still Georgie.
- [39:03]
Glenn Charles
Full fledged George is George.
- [39:05]
Ted Danson
And George had that ability.
- [39:07]
Les Charles
Has that ability to go light or sad and dark, and he has all this ability to go anywhere you want it. Sorry, I'm now rambling, but that was. I think one of the great things about the casting, I will say, was you all, as writers, could go anywhere, which is not with your story, because that's not always true. But everyone in our cast, because of the way the character was written and because of the acting, you could go to them for a full story. You didn't have to avoid people.
- [39:42]
Woody Harrelson
Our casting director deserves so much credit. Directors. We had one. But, yeah, we were really fortunate. The cast we had. I think it's as close to a flawless cast as I've seen.
- [39:56]
Les Charles
All right, name names. Why did you say close to. Who are you thinking of when you said close?
- [40:04]
Woody Harrelson
I hate to use the word perfect. Okay, it was perfect.
- [40:09]
Glenn Charles
But we always. We were always intent on casting not just for. For the funny, but for the actor. Somebody who can re. Really act and.
- [40:17]
Les Charles
Right.
- [40:17]
Glenn Charles
A lot of. I think a lot of comedies make the mistake of just. Can they do a joke?
- [40:21]
Les Charles
Yeah.
- [40:22]
Glenn Charles
And we'll just keep throwing jokes at them and. No, we purposely wanted the chops. Actors with the chops, and they're so blessed.
- [40:33]
Les Charles
Do you remember Georgie stopping? George went stopping shooting because I can't remember what the setup was. Woody. But they were nervous or something. And he was sweating so much and he took his shirt off. I mean, his sports sport coat off. And you. You guys had rigged huge pits. Huge pits that were like visibly dripping. But we. We had to stop shooting for the. The only time ever the laugh was.
- [41:03]
Woody Harrelson
They wouldn't stop laughing.
- [41:04]
Les Charles
Yeah.
- [41:04]
Woody Harrelson
Stop laughing.
- [41:06]
Glenn Charles
We were a classy show.
- [41:07]
Les Charles
Classy show.
- [41:09]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah. I love the story when Johnny came in and you guys, you know, he kind of bombed. He. He was on with us and we talked to him, but he kind of bombed the audition. And then he turns back and says, you guys have a bar, know it all do you remember that?
- [41:29]
Glenn Charles
That's right.
- [41:29]
Woody Harrelson
I remember very well. He. He actually came in and read for Norm and. And. And that wouldn't have worked. And this is when we didn't know whether or not we were going to get George. So we were reading left people. But he said, do you guys have a know it all in the bar? What do you mean? And he said, this guy that comes in start of the evening, very prim, proper. By the end of the evening, he's doing this and poking everybody in the chest and screaming and yelling and like that. So we played with that. Played with that a little.
- [42:05]
Glenn Charles
And his fly's open. You agree with that? Yeah, we played with a little touch.
- [42:10]
Woody Harrelson
They don't remember that anyway.
- [42:13]
Les Charles
You played with that in the audition, you mean, or.
- [42:15]
Woody Harrelson
No, no, we played with. When we were writing the character we played with. That's kind of a, you know, a know it all. Who would be a know it all. And it would be somebody that knows a little bit about a lot of things, but not a lot about it. Little things. Anyway, he. How about. How about a mailman? Because, you know, they read magazines, they read the covers and headlines, right?
- [42:38]
Glenn Charles
Oh, that's right.
- [42:40]
Woody Harrelson
And so cover of every man, minimum, minimum knowled. But he thought he was an expert on everything because he'd heard about it. So that was Cliff. Cliff Clavin.
- [42:50]
Glenn Charles
And we thought we'd just use him for a few episodes here and there, like some of the other bar characters. But he was so funny that we eventually.
- [42:58]
Les Charles
Oh, when I watch old episodes, Johnny can make me laugh harder than so in Maine. So, you know, out of left field.
- [43:07]
Glenn Charles
One of my favorite John Jon Vitz was when he was selling shoes. Do you remember that?
- [43:11]
Les Charles
He was directing that too, I think. Right?
- [43:15]
Kelsey Grammer
He directed that.
- [43:16]
Woody Harrelson
Yeah, that was a very funny show.
- [43:17]
Glenn Charles
He was selling shoes and he. He managed mail order shoes and he managed to sell to every guy in the bar just in case somebody hasn't seen the episode. And the shoes came in and they were all excited and put them on. And then they noticed that they squeaked. The shoes squeak. All of the shoes squeaked. And so they turn into an ugly mob to try to chase Cliff. And they're squeaking, though.
- [43:41]
Les Charles
And we had little handheld squeakers.
- [43:43]
Glenn Charles
Oh, really?
- [43:44]
Les Charles
So we could all control our squeaks.
- [43:49]
Woody Harrelson
I didn't know that.
- [43:50]
Les Charles
Woody, were you there when the whole bar full of guys, I think to the theme of either Bonanza or the Magnificent Seven, we all sang that and galloped out because we were on some manly chase. Does this Ring a bell at all?
- [44:10]
Kelsey Grammer
Yeah, I remember that we were going after the guy from the other bar, Gary or whatever.
- [44:16]
Les Charles
Gary.
- [44:17]
Kelsey Grammer
Something to do with that?
- [44:18]
Les Charles
Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I think Kelsey was part of it by then. Anyway. Let's speak of. Let's talk trash about Kelsey. He was brought in another.
- [44:29]
Kelsey Grammer
Another. Another time. You were only going to use him for a few episodes, right?
- [44:33]
Glenn Charles
Correct.
- [44:33]
Kelsey Grammer
He was so good, right?
- [44:35]
Glenn Charles
Exactly, exactly. We didn't, didn't realize what we had at that moment.
- [44:39]
Les Charles
So you were looking for a device for the Sam, in a way, the Sam and Diane relationship.
- [44:46]
Glenn Charles
Yeah. Interrupt that.
- [44:49]
Woody Harrelson
An opposite from Sam, you know, pseudo intellectual, SOB and God, he was funny for himself. Yeah, very funny.
- [45:00]
Les Charles
Is funny. Sorry.
- [45:01]
Glenn Charles
Yeah.
- [45:01]
Les Charles
Still doing Fraser. What year will this be of him doing that character?
- [45:06]
Woody Harrelson
Well, he was. How. What year did he come on Cheers? I mean, this is the second. The third.
- [45:13]
Les Charles
Third.
- [45:14]
Woody Harrelson
So he's eight years on Cheers, 11 on Frazier, and. And now we got a new one going.
- [45:19]
Les Charles
That's, that's up there with guns.
- [45:21]
Glenn Charles
He is chasing down James Arness for sure. Yeah, I think we see. I think we really realized that we needed to bring Kelsey on was when we started to see the vulnerability in the character because at first he was just this pompous, successful psychologist and he had Diane and everything was going great. But then when you started to see him breaking down, we realized there were levels to this guy and he, and he could really play them all out.
- [45:53]
Les Charles
Kelsey Grammer is one of our most talented. I think he could also write music, play music, play the piano, sing. He was always startlingly, he would also show up right up to the last second with the script, and he literally, truly did not know his lines. He was reading from the script and it'd be like, oh, God, how's this going to work out? He's carrying the show. He has tons of lines and he would kind of barely have it and then turn around, audience comes, he'd step out and he was like, word perfect.
- [46:30]
Glenn Charles
I'll tell you, one of the, one of the moments that really impressed me, it was a series of moments, was Kelsey. We were doing a rehearsal and he had a line and I said to him, you know, I think that's going to work best if you hit this word. And he nodded and said, okay, so in the next rehearsal, next time through, he hit that line. The next time through, he hit another word the next time he hit another word and then he hit another word the next time. And every time it was funny.
- [46:58]
Woody Harrelson
How long is it?
- [46:59]
Glenn Charles
Oh, so I just shut Up. Left him alone. That was phenomenal. Shut my mouth.
- [47:08]
Les Charles
And then. When did you bring on BB Neuwirth to play his.
- [47:15]
Woody Harrelson
We had. Remember the year we had seen. We were in New York, my LA wife and I, and we had. We'd been to a play and we'd heard about this review called upstairs at O'Neal's. You know, the bar. What's the actor? I can't remember his first name. Anyway, he had a bar and they had a stage upstairs, and they had late night reviews. And we saw Baby Newworth that night for the first time. We couldn't take our eyes off of her. I mean, she just has that deadpan look, and there's something about her that's captivating. So when we came to a point in Cheers where we needed perhaps a love interest for Frazier, we thought, oh, we got to get her because. And she was very funny.
- [48:09]
Ted Danson
Oh, my God.
- [48:10]
Les Charles
And came in full blown. She was, you know. What was her name? Sorry, character name?
- [48:17]
Woody Harrelson
Lilith the Witch.
- [48:21]
Glenn Charles
Perfect name.
- [48:24]
Woody Harrelson
But no, we've been so fortunate that, as I say, every. Every person we've lost has been replaced by someone equally good, if not better. I mean, we've just been very, very fortunate. I think I count our casting directors and give them so much credit.
- [48:45]
Glenn Charles
Every time we needed somebody, the actor walked through the door. Might not have been the first person. But we've been on other shows where the person never comes in, you never find. But we always had Woody walk in. And Woody walked in the door and sneezed, I think. Didn't you, Woody? Is that the. The first time we ever saw Woody?
- [49:05]
Kelsey Grammer
That's right.
- [49:06]
Glenn Charles
Opened the door, walked.
- [49:07]
Kelsey Grammer
Oh, no, no, I. I was blowing my nose.
- [49:10]
Glenn Charles
Walked in the door and blew his nose.
- [49:12]
Kelsey Grammer
I didn't know. I didn't know. I was walking through the door and you guys were on the other side of it because we'd already walked through another door and, you know, I.
- [49:21]
Glenn Charles
Well, it was unaware. It was perfect.
- [49:24]
Kelsey Grammer
You guys laughed.
- [49:26]
Glenn Charles
It was the perfect entrance.
- [49:35]
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- [51:25]
Les Charles
I don't know if you knew what was going on behind the scenes with Woody. When Woody arrived, he was 25, I.
- [51:32]
Kelsey Grammer
Think Woody, I just turned 24.
- [51:34]
Les Charles
24. And we were all 37. George, John, me and Kelsey. I don't know how. Anyway, we if. And 37's right around the time you realize you're no longer 25 and you don't have that. Those physical capabilities. But we were determined to show this whipper snapper a thing or two. So we all love basketball. So we took them out to the basketball court and he tore us apart, just whooped us. So we switched gears and we did. John, who has, you know, sizably muscular legs, decided to do that leg wrestling thing where you lie on the ground each time he cleaned John's clock, just whooped him. I then arm wrestled him and I literally still have some bad tendonitis in my right arm because I didn't want to lose. So I held out longer than I should have because he cleaned my clock. So we took him to the chessboard, cleaned our clock. It was like from that moment on, it was like any kind of vengeful trick or anything we could play. It was wasted on anybody if it wasn't played on Woody.
- [52:46]
Woody Harrelson
Wow.
- [52:47]
Les Charles
Yeah. Did you know that was going on?
- [52:50]
Woody Harrelson
I definitely. Well, we didn't at the time, but we've heard about. About the stories. Definitely heard about it. And the basketball was the first time we heard about praise prowess.
- [53:01]
Glenn Charles
Now while you were doing all of that, we were up working.
- [53:04]
Les Charles
Oh, right, yeah, right.
- [53:05]
Glenn Charles
Might have heard of that.
- [53:07]
Kelsey Grammer
And you guys did actually work. So. Yeah, I remember. Remember Gary David Goldberg? He used to play basketball back there.
- [53:16]
Glenn Charles
Oh, yeah.
- [53:16]
Kelsey Grammer
I think he was the one who put up that basketball court.
- [53:19]
Les Charles
Yeah, I'd love to know how you got from. Was it Henderson?
- [53:24]
Glenn Charles
Henderson, Nevada?
- [53:25]
Les Charles
Nevada. Raised Mormon who left Henderson first. But what was that like growing up as a young teenager kind of thing?
- [53:34]
Woody Harrelson
Henderson is a. Is a well known town now. A lot of Californians move there in fact retire there. So in those days though it was a very small town. It was built essentially during the second World War as an industrial town. So it was a cheaper place to live than Las Vegas, it's nearest neighbor. But I, I really liked growing up in Las Vegas. That was very good. We in those days they didn't have photo ID so we could get somebody. There was a guy in our high school that would. Could fake IDs and you could present and go get in the lounges late at night. And that's where I first saw. I saw Shecky Green and Don Rickles and people like that doing comedy and I really like turned me on a lot. I was the first to go because I'm the oldest. I went to school in Southern California and. But yes, we were raised in the Mormon Church. I don't think our mother was devout and insisted on us going to at least three meetings every Sunday. And our father was more if there had been any. Yeah, there have been an issue.
- [54:41]
Glenn Charles
There have been 12.
- [54:42]
Woody Harrelson
Our father was also a Mormon, but he was not a good one. He smoked a little, drank a little.
- [54:47]
Les Charles
And so you had some wiggle room.
- [54:51]
Woody Harrelson
Well, we have. We had yin yang. We seem life from both sides now.
- [54:57]
Glenn Charles
And they were not totally unlike Sam and Diane. Our parents mother was a reader and constantly going to school and getting educated and dad was down having. Having beers with the guys. Yeah.
- [55:12]
Les Charles
And love sports and did your parents live long enough to see the success of Cheers?
- [55:18]
Woody Harrelson
They did. Fortunately now my. Yeah, my mother lived to 77 and.
- [55:22]
Les Charles
It was thumbs up from your mother.
- [55:24]
Woody Harrelson
Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah, I'll know She still I mean up to her passing talked about tonight she met you in my office or less is ob. I don't know if you remember coming up and this is one. She was on the air a while and she was introduced to you and oh, she still talked about that for.
- [55:42]
Glenn Charles
She's so much better looking on screen.
- [55:45]
Woody Harrelson
Yeah.
- [55:46]
Les Charles
Oh that was her, right? That was her. Oh good. So I met your mom. So my question about did she live long enough?
- [55:54]
Woody Harrelson
Yeah, she did. She did. Thank.
- [55:57]
Kelsey Grammer
It was Daddy. Yeah, that. That's. This is an embarrassing awkward moment now. Oh.
- [56:08]
Les Charles
Do you remember their mom?
- [56:12]
Kelsey Grammer
Not at all. I don't remember anything in my defense.
- [56:19]
Les Charles
Okay, so so how. Who made that first move of. I'm going to. I'm going to write. I'm going to be a writer. I'm going to be funny.
- [56:26]
Woody Harrelson
I majored in literature in college and I. I don't. I didn't specifically have an idea of being a writer, but I took a course in drama and I got in a couple of plays and I thought, wow, this is. This is such a different style of writing than if you're writing a novel. And Lesson. I had the. He's five years younger than me. He had the.
- [56:50]
Glenn Charles
Still am.
- [56:52]
Woody Harrelson
Still doesn't show at all. Kids, we have the same tastes. And I. My first job. Job. Job was a. I was an advertiser. Excuse me, I was a copywriter, an advertising agency in. In Los Angeles and Les was going to school still and we. It was. I think the movie was Chinatown. Not that this is important, but we went to see Chinatown Lesson, his wife and me, and we came back from the. From Chinatown, which was a very. It's a great movie, we think. Anyway, we talked about great writing. Great. And we. We both agreed that we'd seen some really good television shows like Mary Tyler Moore, mash, Bob Newhart, all of those shows were on the air about the same time. And we said kind of. I don't know who said it first, but let's write for tv. How hard can it be? Famous last words. It was very hard. It was very hard to get in to get an agent. It took a long, long time. But we did eventually get an agent and we both were respecting a.
- [58:11]
Kelsey Grammer
A spec script or something.
- [58:12]
Woody Harrelson
Exactly. Spec script for which show?
- [58:15]
Les Charles
Do you know?
- [58:16]
Woody Harrelson
We wrote a spec. Mash. A spec Mary. And did we. And we wrote A New Heart.
- [58:21]
Glenn Charles
Yeah. But it was the Mary Tyler more so that got. That really got our foot in the door.
- [58:25]
Woody Harrelson
But the first sale was mash, Right? That was our first. Actually got paid to do a show that was.
- [58:31]
Glenn Charles
And then MTM called to put us on staff.
- [58:33]
Woody Harrelson
Right. We made him interested in being on staff, which was.
- [58:37]
Glenn Charles
We'll think about it.
- [58:38]
Woody Harrelson
Because MTM was the place for TV comedy in those days.
- [58:43]
Glenn Charles
And they said it was like going to Harvard Law School, going to mtm, working at mtm.
- [58:49]
Les Charles
Boy, that's true. Working at Paramount had that same feeling of there were so many shows on at this half hour, comedies. And I think I remember, or at least this is what I've always said, but sometimes friends of yours who were writing on other shows, if any one of the shows had a real problem or issue, sometimes people from other shows would writers would drop by and sit in the room for a while and work. It is that.
- [59:17]
Glenn Charles
That was true at mtm, too.
- [59:18]
Les Charles
Yeah.
- [59:18]
Glenn Charles
People who were trying to break in the business wanted to go to Paramount and they wanted to go to MTM before that. And in fact, we got two producers you know very well, Casey and Lee. Yeah, we're working on another show entirely. They were working on Jefferson's, I think, and they wrote a spec script for Cheers, sent us a spec script, and we couldn't believe it. These guys are our producers on another show, and it was, I think, the best spec script we ever got.
- [59:47]
Woody Harrelson
As well it should be.
- [59:48]
Glenn Charles
Yeah, it was brilliant.
- [59:51]
Les Charles
Amazing writers over the years. Ken Levine, wasn't he there in the beginning? David Isaacs.
- [59:57]
Woody Harrelson
Yeah, Ken and David were first year. They were producers. A lot of late nights with those guys. Yeah.
- [60:04]
Les Charles
Yeah, you were. Our upbringing in this business, and it was such a luxury privilege to be raised by your writing, your relationship to actors, your respect for actors, your respect for how important casts can be. And. And just the whole process was such a gift to us. I mean, we're sitting here, we're allowed to keep working because of Cheers and can't thank you enough.
- [60:38]
Kelsey Grammer
It was, to this day, the greatest experience of my life. I really so appreciate you guys creating this show and letting me be in it. Thank you so much.
- [60:49]
Woody Harrelson
Thank you, guys. I mean, good Lord, thanks. That means a lot coming from you guys, very much.
- [60:56]
Glenn Charles
And it's such an incredible blessing for a writer to have a cast that you can, you know, they'll get it. And, you know, if they don't, if they can't bring it off, then there's something wrong with the writing because they're. You guys were just the ultimate, ultimate cast.
- [61:13]
Les Charles
Well, thank you.
- [61:14]
Glenn Charles
I love you and miss you guys.
- [61:15]
Kelsey Grammer
Thank you.
- [61:15]
Les Charles
Miss you, too. And it's kind of miraculous.
- [61:18]
Glenn Charles
Cheers, too.
- [61:21]
Les Charles
Horse walks into a bar. What? I said a horse.
- [61:24]
Woody Harrelson
What?
- [61:27]
Les Charles
Anyway, love you, Woody. Thank you for taking time to do this.
- [61:30]
Kelsey Grammer
Love you, too. Great seeing you guys. Let's be in touch.
- [61:35]
Glenn Charles
For sure.
- [61:36]
Kelsey Grammer
Big Island. And, Glenn, I'd love to see you sometime, too.
- [61:40]
Woody Harrelson
Anytime.
- [61:41]
Kelsey Grammer
Seeing you guys.
- [61:41]
Woody Harrelson
I live in pebble beach, and you're more than welcome anytime.
- [61:44]
Kelsey Grammer
Oh, Pebble Beach. Okay.
- [61:54]
Les Charles
Glenn and Les Charles. It was truly special to spend this time reminiscing with them. And thank you, Woody, for calling in from London. That's it for our show this week. Special thanks to our friends at Team Coco. If you enjoyed this episode, why not send it to someone? You have a crush on. Thank me later. You can always Watch us on YouTube by visiting YouTube.com teamcoco as always, subscribe on your favorite podcast app and give us a great rating and review on Apple Podcasts. If this episode made you feel happy or even happy ish, More for you next time Where Everybody Knows your.
- [62:40]
Kelsey Grammer
You'Ve.
- [62:40]
Nick Leow
Been listening to Where Everybody Knows your Name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson Sometimes. The show is produced by me, Nick Leow. Executive producers are Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross and myself. Sarah Fedorovich is our supervising producer. Our senior producer is Matt Apodaca. Engineering and mixing by Joanna Samuel with support from Eduardo Perez research by Alyssa Grohl Talent booking by Paula Davis and Gina Batista. Our theme music is by Woody Harrelson, Antony Genn, Mary Steenburgen and John Osborne. We'll have more for you next time where everybody knows your name.
- [63:20]
Cindy Lauper
Want the same expert advice from the pros at a discount tire store while shopping for tires online? Meet Treadwell, your personal tire guide. Treadwell is an online tire buying guide that that gives you personalized recommendations. Shop for tires with Treadwell@discounttire.com I'm Cindy Lauper.
- [63:38]
Les Charles
My psoriasis was all over, even on my scalp, which may mean four times the risk for psoriatic arthritis. But Cosentyx works on both.
- [63:50]
Cindy Lauper
Cosentix Secukinumab is prescribed for adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis 300 milligram dose and adults with active psoriatic arthritis 150 milligrams dose. Don't use if you're allergic to Cosentyx before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. An increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur. Like tuberculosis or other serious bacterial, fungal or viral infections, some are fatal. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms like fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough, had a vaccine or planned to, or if inflammation, inflammatory bowel disease symptoms develop or worsen serious allergic reactions and severe eczema like skin reactions may occur. Learn more at cosentix.com or 1844-COSENTIX Ask your doctor about Cosentyx.