Stephen Merchant

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson (sometimes)" Featuring Stephen Merchant

Release Date: June 4, 2025

In this engaging episode of "Where Everybody Knows Your Name," hosts Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson reconnect with multi-talented comedian, actor, writer, and director Stephen Merchant. The conversation delves deep into Merchant's experiences in the entertainment industry, his work on both the British and American versions of "The Office," and his perspectives on comedy, acting, and fame.

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Introduction to Stephen Merchant

The episode begins with Ted Danson warmly welcoming Stephen Merchant, highlighting his versatility and recent work, notably in the series "Outlaws."

[01:21] Ted Danson: "Today I'm with a multi-talented comedian, actor, writer, director. His name is Stephen Merchant..."

The Office: British vs. American Versions

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on "The Office," comparing the British and American adaptations. Merchant provides insightful commentary on the core differences between British and American comedy, emphasizing the inherent bleakness in British humor versus the optimism often found in American sitcoms.

[03:03] Stephen Merchant: "...in British comedy, traditionally, there's often been a sort of built-in bleakness that we're kind of willing as a British audience to accept..."

Merchant elaborates on how "Cheers" influenced "The Office," noting the deeper layers of sadness within characters that add complexity to the humor.

[04:00] Stephen Merchant: "If you pull back, you know, a couple of the layers of the characters in Cheers, they are sad people..."

Impact of Laugh Tracks and Audience Interaction

The conversation shifts to the role of laugh tracks and live audiences in sitcoms. Merchant contrasts the British version of "The Office," which lacks an audience laugh track, leading to more awkward silences and heightened pathos, with the American version that incorporates these elements to enhance comedic timing.

[07:00] Stephen Merchant: "If you didn't have the audience laughing along, there were some very cutting lines that the characters in that bar would share."

Personal Anecdotes and Experiences

Merchant shares a humorous and slightly harrowing story about being pulled over while he and Woody Harrelson were driving under the influence in their post-"Cheers" days.

[10:31] Stephen Merchant: "...we put him in the British version of the Office... we walked past his local butcher shop, and he'll just suddenly grab me and throw me in the door..."

He also recounts an encounter with Christopher Walken at Stonehenge, highlighting Walken's enigmatic nature and passion for acting.

[17:58] Stephen Merchant: "We were wandering around Stonehenge and... he just... the amazing philosophical stone conversation."

Fame and Its Effects

Both hosts reflect on the nature of fame, sharing personal experiences of sudden recognition and the challenges that come with it. Merchant describes fame as a "slow burn," contrasting it with Danson's more immediate experiences in the spotlight.

[35:35] Ted Danson: "So it's a strange experience, you know, fame, celebrity."

The Craft of Comedy and Acting

The duo delves into the intricacies of comedy versus drama. Merchant discusses his foray into stand-up comedy, the risks involved, and the stark difference between performing alone on stage versus ensemble acting.

[48:34] Ted Danson: "You just thought there was a step there and you just fell two stories."

They explore the emotional demands of acting, especially in dramatic roles, and the fine balance required to maintain authenticity without veering into caricature.

[54:43] Stephen Merchant: "...the fear of, you know, because people know you for comedy, making sure you don't sort of unbalance the piece because it's inadvertently perceived as comic..."

Work-Life Balance and Personal Insights

Merchant touches upon his personal life, including his relationship with his family, the influence of his parents on his career, and his current pursuits outside of mainstream media, such as rebuilding his stand-up act.

[61:02] Stephen Merchant: "I'm very good sort of in isolation. Like, I'm very quite happy on my own."

Final Thoughts and Mutual Admiration

The episode concludes with mutual admiration between Merchant and Danson. Merchant praises Danson's effortless comedic timing, while Danson expresses his anticipation to watch Merchant's latest projects.

[67:19] Ted Danson: "I cannot wait to go home and see the rest of Outlaws. That's incredible. I just love it."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Stephen Merchant on the Difficulty of Comedy:

  [01:13] Stephen Merchant: "It's very, very hard to do anything well and to do something well where you also need to have laughs every 10 seconds. That's really tough."

• On the Evolution of "The Office":

  [05:12] Stephen Merchant: "And also, I guess that idea of the surrogate family... But they don't. They have nothing else in common."

• Merchant Reflecting on His Stand-Up Bombing:

  [48:34] Stephen Merchant: "I ended up letting other directors do stuff because it was just too ambitious to try and do everything..."

• Danson on Humility and Performance:

  [10:10] Stephen Merchant: "That's false humility, by the way."

• Merchant on Balancing Writing and Acting:

  [51:35] Stephen Merchant: "I probably am a writer first and a performer second... It just feels right if it's working."

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Conclusion

This episode offers a profound look into Stephen Merchant's journey in the entertainment industry, his creative processes, and the nuanced differences between comedic and dramatic storytelling. With heartfelt anecdotes and sharp insights, Merchant, along with hosts Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson, provides listeners with a rich narrative that is both entertaining and intellectually stimulating.

For those interested in exploring the dynamics between British and American sitcoms, understanding the challenges of comedic acting, or simply enjoying a candid conversation with industry veterans, this episode is a must-listen.

Transcript

[Ted Danson]

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[Stephen Merchant]

It's very, very hard to do anything well and to do something well where you also need to have laughs every 10 seconds. That's really tough.

[Ted Danson]

Really hard. Welcome back to Where Everybody Knows yous Name with me, Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson. Sometimes. Today I'm with a multi talented comedian, actor, writer, director. His name is Stephen Merchant and you know him from his work on the Office Extras. Hello, ladies. And he's done dramatic work, stage work. Last night I devoured what was new to me was Outlaws and it's just delightful. It's funny and scary and just very engaging. So can't wait for you to check that out. He is a super smart, delightful human being. Here's Stephen Murchison. I had the best time with you on the Good Place.

[Stephen Merchant]

So much fun.

[Ted Danson]

So much fun. How did they get you? Did you know about the show?

[Stephen Merchant]

I knew about the show. And also you're just an admirer of Mike Sher as well from his work on the Office. And of course you knew each other then. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ted Danson]

I'm sorry.

[Stephen Merchant]

I think there was probably a begging email from Mike.

[Ted Danson]

Yeah, for sure.

[Stephen Merchant]

I can't remember, but it was. No, I loved the show and it was a pleasure to be asked. And to work with you as well was definitely one of the impulses.

[Ted Danson]

That's why I asked the question. Okay, I can relax now.

[Stephen Merchant]

Well, we can talk, I mean, we can talk at length if you want, about what an impact Cheers had on the Office in terms of the conception, the writing, you know, but we don't have to.

[Ted Danson]

Dear English, the English version and in.

[Stephen Merchant]

A sense, the DNA of the English version was in the American one. And they. It definitely. I remember when I was working with Ricky on the British version, it became a conversation because. And I. People often say to me, like, what's the difference between American comedy and British comedy? And in British comedy, traditionally, there's often been a sort of built in bleakness that we're kind of willing as a British audience to accept and to sort of indulge. Whereas American comedy, traditionally American sitcom, was seen as being brighter and kind of bit more optimistic. And yet, if you pull back, you know, a couple of the layers of the characters in Cheers, they are sad people. Right. You know, Norm, with that kind of sort of hates his job and has this kind of this loveless marriage, it seems, and, and you know, and your characters, obviously a recovering alcoholic and they're.

[Ted Danson]

All who will never be.

[Stephen Merchant]

Yeah.

[Ted Danson]

With any.

[Stephen Merchant]

Will never be with a woman and be happy. And so. And you can do that with all, you know, Carla, all of them have that. There's a sadness to it. And if you took it or if you took the audience laughter and the jokes out, it would be a sort of bleak existential play about, you know, kind of sad lives. Yeah. And so Norm, for instance, was a big influence on the character of Tim, played by Martin Freeman in the British version that Jim John Krasinski in the American one. That idea of a guy who found himself in a job that wasn't his dream and is kind of doing things to get through the day, you know what I mean? Rather than sort of change anything in his life. And the idea of the sort of sardonic put downs as a way of sort of dealing with, you know, what feels really like a kind of bleak existential existence of like, what is my purpose in life? And so I know that sounds very heavy, but it's sort of, I suppose what we, you know, we took some of those elements and because we didn't have an audience laugh track. And we sort of let the awkward silences sit. A lot of that pathos and sort of sadness that was inherent in a show like Cheers came to the fore, at least in the British version of the show, you know.

[Ted Danson]

Right.

[Stephen Merchant]

And also, I guess that idea of the sort of surrogate family. Right. The idea of people in an environment who have become almost like a family, in your case because of the bar, in our case because of an office, but they don't. They have nothing else in common. Right. Except their proximity to each other in that space.

[Ted Danson]

How long did America get to See your version before the American version of the Office came out, I would imagine.

[Stephen Merchant]

There were like, 14 people that saw it.

[Ted Danson]

No, you'd seen it. I was one of. Yeah.

[Stephen Merchant]

And I think probably within a couple of years of our version, it was on American screens.

[Ted Danson]

Yeah. I know. You were executive producing. Did you guys write the pilot or not?

[Stephen Merchant]

No, they based the first season of the American version loosely on our seasons, and we did write an episode later. But no, they were pretty much, you know, the American team was sort of.

[Ted Danson]

Off actual storylines kind of loosely.

[Stephen Merchant]

But I think the more, in a way, the more they got away from our version from season two onwards. I think the more it found its own groove and the more its appeal went, partly because I think they dialed back some of that bleakness.

[Ted Danson]

I remember seeing the pilot of the American version, Steve Carell, and he was not Ricky acerbic. He. But close adjacent. And then I don't know if it was when they came back or there was a break, as happened sometimes after a pilot, but it was a different version of his character. I mean, he was definitely the wonderful pompous idiot.

[Stephen Merchant]

But they'd softened the edges, I think, hadn't they?

[Ted Danson]

Yeah, he did. Not many people can do Ricky Gervais and survived.

[Stephen Merchant]

That's right. Yeah. Well, I think that's the thing about Steve is I think Carell has such an innate warmth.

[Ted Danson]

Yeah.

[Stephen Merchant]

That the. The more they leaned into that. That warmth that he naturally has, the more they. He can kind of be the outrageous buffoon.

[Ted Danson]

Yeah.

[Stephen Merchant]

And Steve's sort of DNA will. Will keep you on side.

[Ted Danson]

Yeah.

[Stephen Merchant]

You know, again, to go back to Cheers, like, I think, you know, you talk about the acerbic lines, but again, I think if you didn't have the audience laughing along, there were some very cutting lines that the characters in that bar would share. You know, again, if you didn't have the audience to kind of say, hey, it's okay. Some of Carla's put downs and, you know, there was a spikiness to it that felt very real.

[Ted Danson]

Cliff Clavin, the mailman, was the recipient.

[Stephen Merchant]

Of so much of a beating. You know, again, another great example of lives with his mother. You know, it's just, again, you could imagine a. He would've been like a shooter in another version of that show. Yeah.

[Ted Danson]

That's funny. Have you done. I'm trying to think of what comedies you've done that did have a laugh track that either laugh track or an audience.

[Stephen Merchant]

Well, I've done some guest spots. I did a guest spot on the Big Bang Theory chiefly for that reason.

[Ted Danson]

No, I'm sorry, I meant. Go on. Sorry, finish.

[Stephen Merchant]

Well, certainly in the uk, no we haven't. Not in terms of stuff I've myself written. We've never done stuff with a live audience.

[Ted Danson]

Is that common or uncommon to have a live audience?

[Stephen Merchant]

I think it used to be.

[Ted Danson]

Used to be just like it used to be here.

[Stephen Merchant]

I think it's sort of fading away now. But I did a guest spot on the Big Bang 3 chiefly because I wanted to experience that doing a sitcom with a live audience and sort of feeling the way it impacts the performance and the. And the way the writers are throwing in new ideas or adapting based on the crowd, which is a completely different thing for me.

[Ted Danson]

The audience, I think just takes you someplace that you have not gone during the week. And it can be very funny during rehearsals. And sometimes we would have to shoot. We'd let the audience go after shooting it and then stick cameras someplace or something really didn't work and they'd tinker with it and the audience wasn't there. They almost never use that reshoot because the energy level and the excitement and not just from their laughter, but the energy is just so vibrant when they are.

[Stephen Merchant]

But it's interesting you say that because for me the temptation is to really lean into the crowd and to kind of amplify your performance. And the thing I was always struck by, particularly in your performance, is that there was a sort of relaxed kind of effortlessness to it. It never felt like you were playing up to the crown. Is that something that you just.

[Ted Danson]

No lack of talent. I just couldn't. I tried, but my job was different. My job was to behold all of the wonderful buffoons and far out characters and be the audience's way into loving them.

[Stephen Merchant]

Yeah, but I think you're doing. Yeah, but you're doing. You're being modest.

[Ted Danson]

It's false humility, by the way.

[Stephen Merchant]

No, but I'm interested because one of the things that struck me is the sort of. There's a kind of ease to your performance that's so. That's so relaxed. And is that from stage experience? Is that.

[Ted Danson]

No, you know, I don't know.

[Stephen Merchant]

Were you stoned the whole time afterwards, after the show?

[Ted Danson]

My mind has. I won't tell you the whole story because I've told it before, but it's like Woody and I, after the show, really stoned. We hadn't been drinking, but just really stoned. Driving home on Sunset Boulevard and car phones had just come in, you know, and we were talking and Just had the most amazing philosophical stone conversation. And two cops pulled both of our cars over simultaneously.

[Stephen Merchant]

Wow.

[Ted Danson]

I could hear on the guy's radio, oh, wait till you see who I got. And he said, wait till you see who I got. We got pulled over for going 12 miles an hour on Sunset. Just so, so ripped.

[Stephen Merchant]

Wow.

[Ted Danson]

And having the most delicious casual drive. Anyway, my pro. I always. I don't know where I got this. Whether it could have been Jimmy Burroughs, who directed all of them and was really my show business daddy. He was my, you know, this is how you do it.

[Stephen Merchant]

Yep.

[Ted Danson]

Teacher. I always look at jokes as kind of, how homeopathic can it be? How close to not touching the actual joke and still have it be funny?

[Stephen Merchant]

That's a great summary of the way you do it. Cause that's what's. I mean, I still watch it now whenever it comes on. And that's exactly what it is. It never feels like you're selling the joke. You're never leaning into it. You just. It's a really. It's a kind of. You make it look way easier than it is. As someone who's from.

[Ted Danson]

That's really kind. Because I admire you so much. The other thing I think that you do, and I know, I'm sure you do this, too, is when you have a joke, you don't know if it's going to fly in front of the audience or not or to what degree. Another. So always have a back door. Always be doing something more interesting, physically doing something more interesting than the joke. So you can continue cutting that lemon as if it was. I knew it wasn't funny. I don't give a shit. You know.

[Stephen Merchant]

Is that why you're often topping up your coffee?

[Ted Danson]

Yes.

[Stephen Merchant]

Yeah.

[Ted Danson]

Hey, I am jumping around. But you made it really hard to do research on you because I would go, oh, here's a clip. And then I'd get sucked into the clip. Mary and I sat there and watched four episodes of not the. But Outlaws.

[Stephen Merchant]

Oh, yeah, right. Oh, great. Thank you.

[Ted Danson]

Oh, Stephen, it's brilliant.

[Stephen Merchant]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Ted Danson]

It really is. It's my favorite kind of comedy. There are funny things in it, obviously. The characters are so well drawn out and acted, you know, and you care about. And they're believably. Not scummy, but, you know, believably damaged, you know, low rent, you know, criminals. They have broke, indeed, broken the law, and you grow to love them. And the villain is scarier than shit. You know, we just left when we thought her parents were going to.

[Stephen Merchant]

Yeah.

[Ted Danson]

You know, that moment. I won't go into it for those, but it's really, really worth watching. It is so good for those people who haven't seen it, it's just brilliant.

[Stephen Merchant]

Oh, that's very kind of you. Thank you.

[Ted Danson]

Really lovely.

[Stephen Merchant]

Thank you. Well, that was a show that originated because for those that haven't seen it, it's about people doing, as we call it in the uk, community service or community payback. Like you say, you get the small crime, the dui, whatever, and you. You, instead of sending you to prison, they make you pick up trash or whatever. And that came about because my mother used to was involved in that world. She was not a criminal. She supervised criminals. And through much of my kind of late teens and early twenties, that was what she did. And so in the uk, yeah, Bristol. And so she would come back and she would tell stories of the sort of people that she would be supervising. And of course, it was a real mixed bag because you'd have the kind of. The people on the sort of criminal fraternity, but you'd have the businessman who, you know, the white collar criminal, you know, or whatever it is, or the.

[Ted Danson]

Dui, particularly dumb one. I love that story you tell.

[Stephen Merchant]

Well, there was a. So there was a kid that was. That I went to school with who would constantly come through her doors and. Because he was Bristol's most useless criminal. And I've always. It's always annoyed me that if you're going to go into crime, at least be good at it. You know what I mean? You're not. You don't have to study, you know what I mean? You're just thieving and you can't even do that well. And like, one time he ended up. And she said, why are you here? He said, well, I got caught stealing someone's tv. And the homeowners came back and they went, mark, what are you doing? And I said, I'm not Mark. And they went, yes, you are. You live next door. And he was stealing from his own neighbors, like, at least go two streets over. And anyway, I just thought it was him. And there was other people that she talked about. And I just thought, what an interesting way, as we were talking about with the office or with Cheers. How do you find groups of people that wouldn't interact otherwise and throw them together and watch those sparks fly? And the community service world was perfect for that. Cause these people would never have met otherwise. And it felt like an excuse to sort of explore people from very different backgrounds and then make them rub up against each Other and see how involved.

[Ted Danson]

I believe Cheers alone. But it's that when you have a set, a location that allows people from everywhere to come in, you can write stories forever.

[Stephen Merchant]

That's right.

[Ted Danson]

And you did that. Tell me about the casting. Cause everybody is so, so good in it.

[Stephen Merchant]

Well, I mean, obviously the kind of headline. Cast member was Christopher Walken, who. Yeah, you heard me. Christopher Walken. I know who we wanted the idea of this kind of older American, kind of con man thief who had sort of come to England probably in the early 70s to avoid the draft or the Vietnam War, and had sort of hooked up with some local girl and had never really left and was sort of bumming around. And, you know, he was just sort of such a perfect fit for that. That way that he can do kind of charm, but also be sort of sinister, but be funny. You know, he's just. And.

[Ted Danson]

And the most unique, extraordinary performance ever.

[Stephen Merchant]

A phenomenal man. Extraordinary, eccentric, but just perfect. And to take him to my hometown of Bristol where we shot the show, and for him to be there was so extraordinary. But also, unfortunately, it was during COVID We ended up shooting during COVID so I couldn't even. Yeah, yeah. So we couldn't even. I couldn't even show him around the city. He sort of had to go from set to the. To the hotel and back again.

[Ted Danson]

And it was a very sad time because social is. Yeah. Actors you get to play.

[Stephen Merchant]

Well, that's so much of when you, you know, the actors, particularly when it's sort of. Again, the idea of the surrogate family, people getting to know each other. The fact you can't really do that off set. Cause you couldn't hang out and stuff. It was. It was tough. But anyway.

[Ted Danson]

Oh, I would never have ever, ever thought that.

[Stephen Merchant]

Oh, well, that's great. That's great.

[Ted Danson]

And I read that you went to Stonehenge at one point.

[Stephen Merchant]

Christopher Walken and I went to Stonehenge. And, you know, he's a sort of enigmatic man, Chris. And he doesn't. He's not. He's sort of a man of few words. And we were kind of wandering around Stonehenge and there was a tour guide showing us around. And he hadn't really spoken. He was just taking it in, taking in the vibe. It was kind of sunset. It was a. Again, it's a very kind of spiritual place for many people. At one point, he just. The only thing he said was. He said, apparently the Bluestones have healing properties. I was like, wow, Chris, Rudy knows what he's talking About. And he said to the British tour guide, can I touch it? And she went, no such a British thing. Can you? No. Like, this is Christopher Walken. He's come to Stonehenge for the first time in his life. Can you touch this? No, we don't let anyone touch them. Like what, what do you take them in at night? I mean, people are going to touch the stones, but yeah, these are those things where as someone who was a fan of film and TV and comedy and movies and all that growing up, the idea that one day I would be at Stonehenge with Chris Walker just seems so, so wild to me, even now.

[Ted Danson]

That kind of person, his talent and who he is and how much I admire him, but also his demeanor, because I'm the guy who vomits my life out on anybody and everybody, you know, and I'm hey. Kind of guy. And I'm sure that would be met with silence and I'd be totally dumbfounded at what to do next.

[Stephen Merchant]

Yeah, and that's the thing. He'll just. Very occasionally he'll. He'll offer something up and you know, wow, you know, just a fascinating little tidbit. And other times he'll just be quiet. But he's a real. What I was excited by was he was still passionate about acting, you know, even in his later years, he just still cared. And he was. And he was invested and he was considered and thoughtful and he had take some things. It was just. I just. That was so exciting to me that someone of his status still gave a shit.

[Ted Danson]

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[Woody Harrelson]

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[Ted Danson]

Tell me about directing while being in it. Do you have somebody watch through the camera or watch the scene for you and go, maybe you could try such and such.

[Stephen Merchant]

I was directing so I always directed all of the British version of the Office alongside Ricky. And then when we started doing stuff where I was also a performer, we carried on directing and so I got used to that idea of sort of being in both, both in front of and behind the camera. What I found tough with the Outlaws was firstly I was trying to make it a little bit more cinematic. It was a bit more ambitious, but also being one of an ensemble, there's seven or eight main characters. When you're as tall as I am, six foot seven, you inevitably have to put yourself at the back of the group. Can't really block other smaller actors, so I could never see what anyone was doing in the group scenes cause they were up front talking and I'd be at the back and I just never had time to go and check the take. And so it just there was a great deal of faith you put in the actors to just deliver the goods.

[Ted Danson]

I know some sound People, you know, who go. And I can tell if it's good just by listening through my headphones in my little dark closet. I bet you there's some of that too.

[Stephen Merchant]

Yes, I think there's that. And I think also, particularly if you're in a scene with someone, you just. It just feels right if it's working. You know what I mean? You know it yourself as a performer, you just, you can just sense when the scene is firing and also when something's not working and trying to find ways to remedy it. But ultimately it just. I ended up letting other directors do stuff because it was just too ambitious to try and do everything because it was a big show and there was a lot of music.

[Ted Danson]

We can't, literally can't wait. We're gonna start watching again tonight.

[Stephen Merchant]

Oh, great.

[Ted Danson]

Thank you so much. Really lovely. Is it new to the United States or has it been here for a while?

[Stephen Merchant]

There's three seasons and they're all on Amazon, so you can watch them all on Amazon.

[Ted Danson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Stephen Merchant]

Wow.

[Ted Danson]

Well, thank you. Are people watching it?

[Stephen Merchant]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ted Danson]

Fantastic. Okay, so I'm just late to the party. It's not a news flash. Can we back up? So, I don't know, six, seven year old you, what were you doing? Were you aiming towards this kind of creative career or what were you doing?

[Stephen Merchant]

I don't know If I, at 6 or 7, knew about this, but certainly by my early teens I was very single minded about being in comedy and in film and tv. I was a fan just as a viewer. My dad and I would watch a lot of particularly older American movies. Bob Hope and the Marx Brothers. And then I sort of discovered Woody Allen and, and then great American sitcoms, mash and other shows that were very important to me. And alongside that, John Cleese from Monty Python had grew up in the west country of England, as did I. And he was very tall, like I am. And I think part of me at a young age was like, well, if you need tall, funny guys from the west country, sure, I'll throw my hat in the ring. Like, I just was, if that's what you need. And so there was a part of me that was just like at 12 or 13 going, I guess I'll be John Cleese. Yeah. And sort of people would look at me like, no, that's not an ambition you need to do. You want to work in a bank or something. Like, you can't be John Cleese. That's not what people do. But for some reason, and I don't know where this came from. I was not from a performing family. I just had this single mindedness like, eh, no, I'll do it, I'll give it a go. And I'm not to compare myself with John Cleese, but in terms of getting into the profession and becoming a writer and a performer, that worked out. And so even now, I look back now, I just. Where did that arrogance come from? How dare you think that you could do this for a living? And I don't know where that comes from because I'm not a man who's sort of arrogant, I don't think, or crazy confident in all aspects of my life. But for some reason I just was very single minded about that and sort of manifested it's happening.

[Ted Danson]

You do exude a lot of self confidence. That doesn't mean arrogant.

[Stephen Merchant]

Right. I think maybe that's it. I always worry that, you know, that they, that they can blur into each other. Yeah, yeah.

[Ted Danson]

But your dad, was that the same?

[Stephen Merchant]

My dad's a very funny man and. But, but was not in the profession but was always very funny and shared my love of comedy and stuff. And I think my mother was a lot more kind of, oh, you're gonna go into comedy? Well, you know, you have something to fall back on, get an education, you know, those sensible things. Which I did. But I luckily with the British version of the Office, it happened when I was still quite young, in my early 20s, and so I was sort of off to the races. And so that confidence or that self belief was sort of borne out quite quickly. I was like, okay. But what was weird was I remember going to the BBC to, to pitch the British version of the Office and.

[Ted Danson]

I said, being known by nobody, nobody.

[Stephen Merchant]

Knew who we were, we were complete strangers. And we went, this guy Ricky's gonna be in it, we're gonna write it, we're gonna direct it. And they said to me, why would we let you do all those things? And I remember saying, we might be the next Orson Welles. But I didn't mean it arrogantly. I meant it in that way that nobody knew that he was gonna be Orson Welles. Right. He just was. But in my mind it was like, take a chance. We don't know. But it sounds like the most arrogant thing in the world.

[Ted Danson]

And Ricky was in the same position.

[Stephen Merchant]

He was a little older than me, so he was a little more. He had, I think that he was in his 30s, so I just think he.

[Ted Danson]

Was he performing?

[Stephen Merchant]

No, no, this is what I mean. He had. None of us had any we just were people off the street. I mean, it was mad.

[Ted Danson]

Yeah.

[Stephen Merchant]

And they. The show. So they just left us alone because it was super low budget. It was just in one room, essentially. No star actors, no one came to visit, no one came to check on us. It went out, no one watched it. They did a test audience screening and it got the lowest test audience score, except for women's lawn bowls, which is like where they sort of roll little balls along a lawn. Didn't even know that was on tv. But women's women, specifically women's men's lawn balls, is crazy popular. But apparently women's lawn balls, very low scoring office, was second. And no one watched it. And we were like, oh, well, we tried. And then it just started to pick up some steam, you know, and they started to win some awards and then it got rerun and people started to watch it.

[Ted Danson]

Did press love you?

[Stephen Merchant]

The press were on top of it and they loved it. And then it just started to gather.

[Ted Danson]

It's very similar to Cheers.

[Stephen Merchant]

Was it Right.

[Ted Danson]

Oh, we were dead last one, really, week, that first year. Yeah. I mean, 70. Jimmy likes to say we were 70. Fifth out of 70 shows. It was just dead last.

[Stephen Merchant]

But isn't it interesting how many shows have that reputation and that people stuck with them and they became phenomenon. Seinfeld, obviously, being another example. And I just don't know nowadays whether things get that breathing space right, or that Runway, you know. But, yeah, it's interesting. I think, like you said, the audience starts to engage with it. They start. Once they tune in to the world and they start to find the characters, affection for them, even the, you know, the mean characters, they. Then they're in. And once you get them in, they're in. And it's like they. It's like a soap opera. They just want to spend time in that universe. And it's kind of unique to sitcom, I think. You know, you watch things like the Sopranos and that, and yes, you're intrigued, but there's an edginess to the viewing. Whereas with comedy, there's a sort of. There's just a. There's something, I don't know, enveloping, warm, inviting about being in.

[Ted Danson]

And you're going to feel better on the other end and you can go to bed feeling a little better about life.

[Stephen Merchant]

Absolutely.

[Ted Danson]

Did you ever get to meet John Cleese?

[Stephen Merchant]

I've never met him. No, I've never met him, but my.

[Ted Danson]

Shame on him. Shame. Exactly.

[Stephen Merchant]

Well, so my parents were on a cruise once and they found out that Cleese was on the same cruise. He was going to give a talk and sign copies of a book that he'd written.

[Ted Danson]

Free Cruise John.

[Stephen Merchant]

A free cruise for John. And my parents were like, this is so exciting. We're going to get a book signed for Stephen. But being my parents, they got the wrong day. And they showed up and the talk had already happened. They'd missed it. And so through the kind of. You know, through the ship's people, they said, could we try and get this book signed? Anyway, I came back to visit them one time and they were showing me this kind of shaky camcorder footage of them in their. In their room on the ship. And you could see my mother going, I don't know how it works, Ron. It's a camera running. And they. Where they press play on the kind of. The kind of answering machine in the cabin. And it's John Cleese. And he's saying, hey, someone asked me to sign this book for you. Of course, I'm happy to do it. Can I just ask, is it the same Stephen Merchant who did the Office? Because I'm a big fan of the show and I want to send my regards. And it's like, I'm done. I don't need to meet him. You know, I mean, we came full circle.

[Ted Danson]

He was on Cheers, and it was.

[Stephen Merchant]

Like, yeah, of course he was. Of course.

[Ted Danson]

We all grew up with Monty Python. I was over by the time you came along. But for us, it was like the Holy Grail. It literally was a comedy. It was. Yeah, we shrink.

[Stephen Merchant]

Right. That's one of the great episodes, I think.

[Ted Danson]

And he was so smart in giving, too, because there was this. And the writers, everybody. He's visiting royalty. We all felt the same. And I think the writers were trying to make sure he had something wonderful. And it was the last scene, and it just. The scene wasn't working. And John finally said, I think you need to stop worrying about me. I'm very happy. And just write what the scene needs. And it just.

[Stephen Merchant]

That's great.

[Ted Danson]

They ended up writing this terrific scene, but he was so generous. Then I had a root canal or something like the weekend after we shot, and he came to visit me at the house, unsolicited, just to say, how are you feeling? So anyway.

[Stephen Merchant]

Oh, that's lovely. That's nice to have.

[Ted Danson]

We have a good hero in common.

[Stephen Merchant]

Absolutely, yeah. Who were your other kind of comedy heroes when you.

[Ted Danson]

Dick Van Dyke.

[Stephen Merchant]

Dick Van Dyke, yeah. Hands down. Yeah. Because again, he has that very relaxed, almost effortless style.

[Ted Danson]

And Physical comedy. I mean, both John Cleese and Dick Van Dyke are just incredible with their.

[Stephen Merchant]

Well, that's something I've tried to incorporate where I can.

[Ted Danson]

No, you're magnificent.

[Stephen Merchant]

Physical stuff. Yeah.

[Ted Danson]

Seriously love watching you act.

[Stephen Merchant]

Thank you. Thank you. I think it's also when you're very tall, like I am, someone said to me once in an interview, do you think you went into comedy to control when people laugh at you? And I thought, that's a hell of an opening question. But it has stuck with me because I think there's probably some truth to that. When you're 6 foot 7, people naturally look at you anyway. And so there's something about. If you're going to stare at me, let it be on my terms.

[Ted Danson]

I agree. I didn't have that. But I was, at age 13, 6 foot and £120. I was scary. Scary. And I went to a prep school and they had their share of bullies, but the bullies did not know what to do with me. It was like if I hit him, he could shatter and I'd spend the rest of my life in jail, so they just would leave me alone. And then I also figured early on, I don't know, I'm not. I'm not like, saying this is the way to go in life. I think being confrontive is a good thing sometimes. But I would find the biggest bully on the playground and make him laugh.

[Stephen Merchant]

Yeah, right.

[Ted Danson]

And then he was mine. He became human to me and I was the kid who made him laugh.

[Stephen Merchant]

Yeah. Yeah. I think I never remember being bullied, but I think I got in there preemptively by trying to be funny. And so therefore, I, like you say, I was kind of insulated from the bullying, but at the same time, I think I used humor at school as a bit of a barrier. And therefore I think I don't. I never felt like I was part of any gang, really. You know, I was always slightly on the periphery, kind of observing and, you know, got on fun and was not. And it was not a. It was not an unpleasant experience, school. But just never quite. Because I was using humor to keep people at arm's length for fear of that bullying attack. I wasn't ever really quite part of any circle.

[Ted Danson]

Do you remember when it went from one person once a week. Oh, I saw you in such and such. To when it became a torrent of people recognizing you. How does fame sit on you?

[Stephen Merchant]

Well, I think it was a slow burn. The old analogy of the frog in the pan of water and you slowly turn up the heat and it doesn't realize it's being boiled alive. And I think because I started as a writer and then I would start popping up here and there on talk shows or. And then started to perform and. And was on screen and it just. So it was a much more slow burn experience for me. And I think there was probably an occasion where I remember, like, you know, there'd be like a kind of gossip column and they'd say they'd have seen me, you know, Like, I remember they said they'd seen me in a Blockbuster video arguing with my girlfriend, presumably squabbling over what movie we were gonna. Although I don't remember ever arguing in the Blockbuster anyway. But I remember then you get slightly kind of complacent. Like, I don't know if you might have heard me tell this story before, but much like in Times Square at New Year, in sort of central London, in Trafalgar Square at New Year, there's a big congregation of people for the big countdown and the whole thing. And I was there. And, you know, and I'm 6 foot 7, so I'm taller than most of the people in the crowd. So I'm like checking out the scene. And I was young and I was single, and I'm like, looking for, you know, so maybe a New Year paramore. And this girl comes up through the crowd and she walks up to me and she says, hey, are you gonna be here for a while? And I thought, here we go. She's probably seen me on tv. Yeah. Wants a little piece of Steve, of course. And she went. She said. I said, yeah, I'm gonna be here for a while. She said, great, because my friends and I have arranged to meet back at you. I mean, so she said, yeah, yeah, yeah. We just. We need like a meeting point. We're all gonna get and we're gonna off to a party. So we just thought we'd use you, if that's all right. Cause we can see you wherever you go. I was like, huh? She says, yeah, move around. Don't worry, we can see you. I was like, okay. So I would move around. Then finally I just started fight. People, like, just started gathering and I would move and they would move with me. I'm like, oh. And then eventually she showed up. She'd say, thanks so much. And I'm thinking, well, she'll invite me to the party. They went off to the party. I didn't get invited. I went home alone. I'm like, yeah, I was getting a little Too big for my boots there on the old celebrity front. Yeah, yeah. So it's a, it's a strange experience, you know, fame, celebrity. Again, though I think because I was tall, people always looked at me.

[Ted Danson]

I was about to say, it's hard to tell the difference.

[Stephen Merchant]

I always got stared at, you know, and even now, if people don't know who I am, I'll still get people comment, you know, because I think people think being very tall is like an accomplishment. It's not an insult, you know, so I get a lot of, do you play basketball? And, you know, I'll order a drink in a bar and someone will be like, that's a tall order. And everyone will laugh and high five. And I'm like, is that allowed? You just. But yeah, so I think that I've always, yeah, I've always had people gawping.

[Ted Danson]

Yeah.

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[Ted Danson]

Your parents, how are they with your fame? Do you have siblings?

[Stephen Merchant]

I have one sister, Alex, who's involved sort of behind the scenes in TV and film. So she's worked on a number of the projects, including the Outlaws. But my dad, I think, is quite enamored of my celebrity, partly because we put him in the British version of the Office.

[Ted Danson]

Right.

[Stephen Merchant]

So very occasionally he'll get recognized. Yeah, which is a huge thrill for him. He didn't have any speaking lines, but he was a sort of janitor who will occasionally appear, like holding some toilet rolls and just stare at the camera. Transfix. And occasionally people will recognize him. But if I'M walking with him. Like, I'll go for a little walk with him in when I go visit, and we'll walk past his local butcher shop, and he'll just suddenly grab me and throw me in the door and be like, look who it is. And they'll be like, hey, I'm sort of like a piece of meat, like a prized cow to be admired by the butcher. But no, he's. Yeah, but it's. I think there's like a big picture of me on the wall when you walk into the family.

[Ted Danson]

That's great. I grew up without a tv and my parents didn't want television. And. And then Cheers came along and they. They were, oh, well, we guess we have to buy a tv. They put a kind of a religious tapestry over the front of it. So, you know, it was only when they took the, you know, opened up the devil and turned it on, and.

[Stephen Merchant]

They would just watch Cheers and then throw it back.

[Ted Danson]

Yeah. And I mean, now, then they grew into news and other things like that. But that's. I think what they loved about it is people reached out to them who they hadn't. Friends, who they hadn't spoken to or had lost track. So it was like a good thing to them because they got to hang around and meet other. Their friends that they hadn't seen. Yeah.

[Stephen Merchant]

Do you remember, though, it's interesting you said that about. Cause I remember when I was growing up with certain households, there was almost like a shame about having a tv. Like, I remember, I don't know if you had this in the US but they would have, like, video cassette cases for the vcr, but the cases would look like books.

[Ted Danson]

Books, yes.

[Stephen Merchant]

And you would put the VCR tape in the. And then he would put them on the shelf so they looked like books.

[Ted Danson]

No, that's like. You know what I mean?

[Stephen Merchant]

Like, the idea that people come around and go, hey, can I borrow that book? No, no, no, you can't read that book. No, that's a family. That's a family book. You can't keep. Just the idea of like, hiding your videotapes.

[Ted Danson]

No, that's War and Peace. That's the book.

[Stephen Merchant]

Exactly. Yeah. But were they. So were they religious? Is that why.

[Ted Danson]

No, I think it was a combination of things. We lived out in the country, and so in Arizona, so it was early. This is in the 50s, so satellite was not in, you know, play, so they had to take. Lay a cable to your house, in essence. And that was very expensive. If you lived out in the country, you would have to foot that bill. So it became out of the question. And then they just loved to read. They were readers. My father was a museum director, archaeologist, anthropologist. And my mother was, I like to say she became spiritual, but she was very religious. But not, not like anti.

[Stephen Merchant]

Right.

[Ted Danson]

But just. I'd rather you read and you go play.

[Stephen Merchant]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ted Danson]

You know, and of course, now I'm the guy who will turn on a cooking show and watch it for 12 hours straight, you know.

[Stephen Merchant]

Yes, yes. Yeah. I think that my dad. My dad was like a plumber and a builder. And I think he would come home and be exhausted. And so TV was just a great kind of salve for him. And so we would watch it together. And like I say, we'd watch a lot of old black and white movies and things. And so it was always a kind of bonding thing. And particularly comedy. Watching comedy was a big bonding thing for he and I. So there was never any. In fact, I remember once we. I said, dad, maybe I should go and like, play some sport or something. And he's like, okay. So he took me around to the park with a cricket bat and a ball. And I had the cricket bat and he had the ball and he bowled me the ball and I thwacked it. And he said, we're not, I'm not going to go and run for that. So we went home, watched tv. It was the last time I played sport with my father. He was having none of it. And so I was never encouraged to go out and play. I was always encouraged to sit in and watch movies and tv.

[Ted Danson]

Are you non stop work mode? Basically. I mean, you love what you do, but what do you do when you don't do this? Or do you not have those?

[Stephen Merchant]

No, I don't do a lot of non. This. Cause it was a hobby before it was a profession.

[Ted Danson]

My hobby is acting. I love it, love it. Love going to a studio. I love this.

[Stephen Merchant]

The whole process of it. The draw. I used to draw comic strips and I used to write little sketches and things. I just, it was fun to me. It was creatively stimulating. It was nutritious. And so. And people would often say, oh, you're a workaholic. And it's like, well, that sounds very pejorative. And it's like, but what am I supposed to do? Like, go and play golf even though I don't play golf? Like, I, I, you know, I mean, so aside from playing a bit of online chess, I don't do a lot. Yeah.

[Ted Danson]

Are you good?

[Stephen Merchant]

No, no. But I'm enthusiastic But what I like about online chess is you can play anonymously and you have like a little avatar image that you can choose for some reason. Mine is Prince on roller Skates. But anyway, you'll often, you'll also get. People will, can write to you when you're playing a game and they don't know who you are and they'll just insult you, you know, be like, you suck, you know, whatever. And it's quite a few occasions now where they've had a little avatar of like Dwight Schrute from the Office or one of the shows I've done, they don't know it's me. So they're like insulting me. But they're also a fan at the same time, which I, I find quite delicious.

[Ted Danson]

Thank you, Kaching. Thank you again. Nice one, Kaching. Have you written a book?

[Stephen Merchant]

Forgive my ignorance, I have not written a book. Besides publishing some scripts of shows we've done. But no, I've not. I'd quite like to write a book.

[Ted Danson]

You would?

[Stephen Merchant]

I would, yeah. I would. Have you like an autobiography?

[Ted Danson]

No, no, no, no. There are too many people still alive who go, you put, why did you put that? You know. No, I think I'd quite like to.

[Stephen Merchant]

Do that at some point. But I've just started rebuilding. I started doing a stand up act. I haven't done it for about 12 or 13 years.

[Ted Danson]

That's ballsy.

[Stephen Merchant]

Yeah.

[Ted Danson]

And I stand up is a whole different, different deal.

[Stephen Merchant]

Well, that was one of the things that I started. I started doing stand up and then I got sidetracked with TV and kind of didn't go back to it for a long time and eventually did and then again put it on hold because it's like you say, it's, it's, it's ballsy. It's also tiring. It's hard, you know, you have to go out of the house and try out the material in bars and clubs. It's very antisocial and, and, but anyway. But I've been enjoying it and I've.

[Ted Danson]

Been touring or one of.

[Stephen Merchant]

At the moment I'm just building an act very slowly and eventually I will tour it. But I suppose it's a form of autobiography. Right, because you're.

[Ted Danson]

Have you been doing it in la? Have you been doing it?

[Stephen Merchant]

I've been mainly doing it in the uk but I will, while I'm here, I'll try some little spots here and there.

[Ted Danson]

What is it like taking. Building an act in either LA or in England? Does it translate?

[Stephen Merchant]

Well, the problem is some of the reference points. It's very hard when you're in a particular city or culture. You inevitably draw on some of those reference points. And so that's the thing which is harder to translate. But I think that kind of. Hopefully the DNA of it will still. Will still translate across. So I will ultimately, I will try and make sure it can work on both sides of the Atlantic. But at the moment it's just sort of. It's just. Yeah, it's just throwing a lot of shit at the wall to see what. What sticks.

[Ted Danson]

And do people know that you're doing that, by the way? I always hear that people show up to the Laugh Factory or whatever here in L. A to try out material.

[Stephen Merchant]

That's what I try and do. Yeah, just sharpen it.

[Ted Danson]

Is that kind of an unspoken thing with your audience? Or know that this is you trying out stuff?

[Stephen Merchant]

You. I think you declare, look, I'm trying this stuff out. It's new and you'll have maybe a notebook. But I think what's exciting is not being announced so that there are people in the audience who don't know who you are.

[Ted Danson]

Right.

[Stephen Merchant]

So they have no. They have no built in affection.

[Ted Danson]

He's funny, so I will laugh because he's known to be funny.

[Stephen Merchant]

Exactly. So that. Therefore it's sort of like a stronger test of the material in some way. Cause they're not your audience and they're just judging you on if you're funny or not. So I find that quite effective. But it's also very. It's a slow process.

[Ted Danson]

Do you have a go to for if it bombs? If a joke bombs. I always loved the cheers. All week some joke was just killing us. We thought it was hysterical. The writers thought it was hysterical. We couldn't wait to perform it. And on show night it would bop. It's crickets. And you could not help. But we would all burst into hysterics because it was so physically funny to your body.

[Stephen Merchant]

Yeah, right, right.

[Ted Danson]

You just thought there was a step there and you just fell two stories.

[Stephen Merchant]

I think the difference with standup is there's no one to share the pain, you know, so it's just you on the stage and you've left this gap for a laugh and it didn't come and there's sort of no hiding place. And that's. I remember when I first started out, before I was known at all, I. I sort of. My early act was a bit postmodern and it was. The idea was me, I was sort of playing a character of this arrogant Stand up that no one had ever heard of that thought he deserved more credit and applause than he was getting. And that was sort of. So I would come out and I would be, like, annoyed that they weren't giving me enough applause. And I would, like. I would read reviews, my reviews, but I'd written them in such a way that they were clearly negative, but they could be interpreted as positive. You know what I mean? And if the audience got the joke, they went for it. They loved it because they could sort of. They could laugh along at my arrogance, my fake arrogance. But if they didn't get it and they just thought I was an arrogant comedian, I was done for because I had no act. Because the whole act was like pretending there was gonna be an act if you started showing me some respect. And one time I was performing it, and it just. Nothing. I mean, brutal. And someone shouted taxi for the comedian, you know, the sort of classic kind of slam. And I had nowhere to go. And I remember coming off, and the only person who liked it was the waitress who had. Who had seen a lot of comedy, and she could see what I was doing. And I remember leaving, and I called my agent. I was like, you've got to get me out of all future gigs. I'm done. It's over for you.

[Ted Danson]

This is before you were Steven, before I was known.

[Stephen Merchant]

Yeah. And he said, well, I can't, because you're contracted to go to this next gig. And I showed up at this next gig, and I'm like, it's all over. But they went for it, and I was back on the horse. But I remember at that moment, thinking, looking back on it, it's like, oh, I bombed so terribly and I didn't die. And I did get through it, and they were. And I. And I sort of carried on. And so once you've experienced that sheer terror, you're sort of slightly insulated. You definitely don't invite it, and you don't want it, but you're sort of prepared for the.

[Ted Danson]

The physical experience of it I cannot identify at all. It's just too ballsy for me. And I've always loved the ensembleness of acting, but that is just terrifying to me.

[Stephen Merchant]

Yeah, It's a strange perversion.

[Ted Danson]

Not everyone who does stand up when you put them into a scripted show is generous. It's like, I got the ball. Let me run. Get out of my way. Cause they're used to controlling the situation completely on their own. And it's a rare stand. Not rare maybe anymore, but rare standup. That Passes the ball back and forth, as it were, with the other actors. And I always admire it when people do and can, and you certainly do.

[Stephen Merchant]

Well, I appreciate that, but I think it's because I think in my DNA, I probably am a writer first and a performer second. And as a writer, you're always looking at the bigger picture. And as a director, you want the whole ensemble to gel to work. You understand that this sort of give and take, that sometimes the emphasis needs to be on other characters. And so I think, and I think the more I've done it, the more I've become experienced as an actor, the more I've. It's both fed back into the writing. It's also given me a lot of faith that actors will help me solve problems, script problems, if scene's not working. And I always think, the thing I've realized is that as an actor, I think you're seeing the script from the inside out somehow. And as a writer, a director, you're on the outside looking in. And I think sometimes if something's not right, I'm like, I can't figure out why as a writer, this is not working. I'll ask the actor and they'll be able to. There's something that's not right for their character in that scene. And so I do try to think of them as almost different disciplines. You do the writing, then you move to the acting and thinking them as very separate things. And as time's gone on, I've started to do some drama acting as well. And that's become a whole other sort of skill set, you know, as you start to get into drama.

[Ted Danson]

Jojo Rabbit, you were just absolutely brilliant. Thank you so much. Amazing film.

[Stephen Merchant]

Thank you. That was a very good film. Yeah. But I did a thing in the uk, Four Lives, where I played a real life serial killer. And that was fascinating because you don't know, how do you get into the mind of a serial killer? And that became almost like a writer, a writerly exercise, like almost writing in your head, what are they thinking when they're in court? Do they know they're lying? Have they convinced themselves they didn't commit these crimes? And that itself becomes a really interesting thing to explore.

[Ted Danson]

I did play it a part early on, beautifully written. It was about somebody who incested their child, who they loved. And I did a lot of research and talk to people who treated those kind of people and you could understand, you could sit there in your process, go, oh, I see, I see. Until the act and then there's a line that that person crossed, which is unknowable, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And taboos in society, this sounds like. And this is actor talk, so. Wow, I hope this comes across all right. But taboos are set up in society because it's not unheard of. What? This crime or this act. It's not unheard of, so you make it a taboo. So, anyway, I don't know how you felt. I mean, the person was killing lots of people.

[Stephen Merchant]

He killed at least four men that we're aware of, maybe more.

[Ted Danson]

And not in acts of passion, Acts of.

[Stephen Merchant]

No, there was a premeditated aspect to it. Yeah.

[Ted Danson]

So how did you. You know, you can get close to that, I would assume, as an actor, writer, preparing, thinking.

[Stephen Merchant]

Right.

[Ted Danson]

But then there's that line.

[Stephen Merchant]

There's that line where it's baffling and you just can't. You can't understand it. And there's a little bit of footage of him being interviewed by the police. It's quite a recent crime, so he's in prison now in the uk. But the little bit of footage I saw there was something almost childlike about him, and that was something I used almost just as a way in of kind of like imagining a child who sort of doesn't quite fully understand their actions or the blurring between right and wrong. You know, maybe that was just a way of trying to compute it, which you'd.

[Ted Danson]

You'll have to say, a sociopath or psychopath. That there is that lack of understanding, that lack. If you don't have compassion or empathy and you can't teach it. I mean, you could probably give it a good shot, but you can't teach it. And so, yeah.

[Stephen Merchant]

Yeah. So I'm always very admiring of actors that really go into that territory, because, again, it's not until I started to explore that as an actor that I started to really understand those that do it incredibly well, sort of how challenging it is.

[Ted Danson]

You know, I'm not sure I'm that guy or want to be. I mean, you never know whether you don't have the chops to do it or whether you just don't have the emotional desire to do it. I remember when I was playing this thing, it was called Something About Amelia playing that character. I knew that my job was to be as truthful in every moment as possible so that people couldn't dismiss me. Oh, you know, yes. Oh, well, that's not me. You know, once you lose them and they start. They go, oh, well, yeah, Stephen kind of blew that moment up. Or, oh, Stephen, lost me there. Then you're doing a disservice to the piece because really, what you're trying to say is there but for the grace of God go I. You know, not that. Oh, that's something foreign.

[Stephen Merchant]

That's right.

[Ted Danson]

Inhuman. No, it is human.

[Stephen Merchant]

Yeah.

[Ted Danson]

It's horrible.

[Stephen Merchant]

And that's what's all the more chilling. Yeah, exactly. But I think also it's that fear of, you know, because people know you for comedy, making sure you don't sort of unbalance the piece because it's inadvertently perceived as comic, even if you yourself are not trying to be comic. And that was my fear. But from certainly the reports I got back, it wasn't seen that way. But it's interesting because to me, comedy was always very instinctive and very easy, and I sort of understood how to do it as a performer. I understood timing. It was never intimidating to me, whereas this was very different because it felt like this was new territory. I didn't have any kind of guardrails to help me. And that was both challenging but exciting.

[Ted Danson]

I don't see it as a stretch for you. I mean, I'm sure it was. But your comedy, I'll give you the compliment back, your comedy is believable. You're taking people and maybe tilting one little quarter inch past what would be perhaps drama or sad and making it funny. But you never lose people into, oh, well, this is so broad, you know, that you're not laughing at something that I would ever be. You always make sure that you're human and relatable to. And you can't be dismissed.

[Stephen Merchant]

I hope so, because I think it goes back to what we said at the very beginning, which is that, you know, certainly the comedy. I've always loved both sides of the Atlantic. There is sort of a. Not necessarily a tragedy, but there's a realism, there's a sadness or a desperation or a. Or just a humanity at the core of it. And, yes, you're dialing things up for laughs, but. But what's relatable, what you're tuning into, is something very human. And so, you know, like, even in something like Outlaws, where I'll have a scene that's played for laughs and the next moment it'll be very dark or dramatic, because to me, that is what life is. You know, it can shade between those two areas in an instant, right? Something can be hysterical and. And then you get a phone call, and it's the saddest thing you've ever heard. So that is, to me, what life Is. And I always think sometimes, you know, people will get criticized things, they'll be like, oh, well, you know, it's tonally all over the place and it's like.

[Ted Danson]

Well, kind of like life.

[Stephen Merchant]

Because life is. It's tonally very wild. Yeah. Yeah. And it can change on a dime.

[Ted Danson]

Where do you have sadness in you? This. Me being Barbara Walters. But what do you do? You. I mean, you write. You have a familiarity within your work.

[Stephen Merchant]

Yeah. I often kind of flippantly say that I kind of am annoyed. I don't have more sadness just from a creative point of fuel. A creative fuel. You know, more depression or darkness in my past or whatever. I just that. But it's not really there. And of course, ultimately I'm thankful for that. But you know, I read about these very tortured comedians or artists or writers who have just got so much pain to draw on and I'm like, I'd love a piece of that. I'd love a little bit of that. You know, but what I. My dad wouldn't play cricket with me. Like, that's not enough. That's not enough fuel.

[Ted Danson]

He's used it for like 30 years. It's really. It must have been big, big day for him.

[Stephen Merchant]

Yeah. Yeah. But, but I am just interested in people, I guess. And I think, I think increasingly one of the things I love about like the podcast world is just, just how you get to hear those long form conversations with people that really help you dial into what makes people tick.

[Ted Danson]

That's literally why I want to do this.

[Stephen Merchant]

Yeah.

[Ted Danson]

It is a privilege to. And it's something that I'm not. I, I do the self deprecating, who am I to. Way too much.

[Stephen Merchant]

Right.

[Ted Danson]

And it, but it, for whatever reason, I do it and it keeps me in a party or picking up the phone and going, you're fascinating. Can we just hang out for a minute or have a beer or talk or. I don't do it. But now they're these guard. They're not guardrails. But this is what we're supposed to do. We have a microphone in front of us and we get to spend an hour talking. And I would never do this with you.

[Stephen Merchant]

Right. Yeah. Oh, I would definitely never do this with you, Ted.

[Ted Danson]

Hey.

[Stephen Merchant]

Well, if you called me, I would never answer. Jesus, this guy again.

[Ted Danson]

But you know, I, I love I. My relationships. I never wanted to go have a. Hang out and have a beer. I'm not that guy. I'm really not. I want to go hang out with my wife.

[Stephen Merchant]

Yeah.

[Ted Danson]

But not go Have a beer, even though I like you. And it'd be nice and it'll be nice and relaxing because we're guys. Ho, ho, ho.

[Stephen Merchant]

Yeah.

[Ted Danson]

But it's. I wouldn't do it. But working.

[Stephen Merchant]

Yes.

[Ted Danson]

Having a project together.

[Stephen Merchant]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Ted Danson]

Is my favorite thing to do.

[Stephen Merchant]

Yeah. Well, I'm very good sort of in isolation. Like, I'm very. Quite happy on my own. You know, I like. I like having. I say, I like having conversations. I'm not completely loathing the idea of a beer with you or anyone else, but I could also spend two weeks, you know, at home never seeing anybody. And I would. And I would be quite fine. And even if my partner Marcel was not around, like, you know, I love spending time with her, but again, I'm quite good sort of on my own. Just.

[Ted Danson]

Is she good on her own?

[Stephen Merchant]

I think she would prefer that I was in the house and that we were hanging out. Yeah. And she's just, I think, naturally more adept at sort of social interaction. I think I always have had to work at it slightly more sort of trying. Yeah, I. It took me a long time, I think, to think that it wasn't. It wasn't through. It wasn't through. Sort of. This sounds like. Like I'm being really kind of down on myself, but I just used to think, I don't know, people would be fine if I wasn't around. And I don't mean that I was. I don't mean that in a really bleak way. I just feel like I'm. Yeah, I'm fine. I'm all right, you know, if I'm at the party. Yeah, but if I wasn't there, you're all gonna be fine. And as I got older, I'm like, oh, that's true of everybody. Like, we can all cope without other people. You know, there'll be a substitute and there'll be someone else. But so. But it sounds like I'm like, this guy hates himself, but it was just.

[Ted Danson]

No, I thought I was getting close to something sad, but shoot, shoot. I guess not. Darn it. I love going to, like, award shows and worried about. And being self conscious and worried what people might. Or da, da, da, da, da. And then realize there's this blinding flash of no one is paying attention to anyone else in that room. They're all going through this the same thing. Self doubt, same thing. I was nominated nine times before I won an Emmy, and I think I've won two out of 18 or 19 nominations, but people in those rooms will go, oh, well, You've won so many times, no one has any idea about. You're just in your own little world of self consciousness.

[Stephen Merchant]

What did you win for ultimately?

[Ted Danson]

Thanks a lot.

[Stephen Merchant]

Did you win for Cheers?

[Ted Danson]

Hold on, hold on. Yes, two cheers.

[Stephen Merchant]

But Kenshi, I think that comes down to the fact you made it look easy. I think people, it's not showy. It's not a showy performance. And I think people underrate. That could be, you know, I think some, often the people that win awards, they're doing a lot of tricks. And even when we as.

[Ted Danson]

Let's go with that. I like that.

[Stephen Merchant]

Or maybe you were just terrible in those first eight seasons or how come.

[Ted Danson]

We don't have more Academy Award winning either comedic performances or comedies?

[Stephen Merchant]

Well, that is an issue because I.

[Ted Danson]

Do wonder to pull a comedy off as a filmmaker, as a writer, let alone as an actor. Yeah, it's hard. That's really hard.

[Stephen Merchant]

It's very, very hard to do anything well and to do something well where you also need to have laughs every 10 seconds. That's really tough.

[Ted Danson]

Really hard.

[Stephen Merchant]

And I don't, like you say, I've never quite understood why it's not more valued. Like you say, at this point, as.

[Ted Danson]

An actor, comedy is like an athletic sport. You need to be in training, you need to be in good shape. You need to have all your brain cells firing. Drama. You can show up divorced, depressed and drunk and the camera goes, oh, wow, there's so much bad.

[Stephen Merchant]

Interesting. Yeah. But I think it's like you were saying about being at the award show. I think one of the great reliefs as you get older is realizing no one has it figured out. Everyone's guessing, everyone's insecure, everyone's, what did that guy think of me? Did I say something dumb at the dinner party? And that's. And when you realize that, a great weight is lifted. I think when you're certainly when I was younger, I just was like, I just felt like other people had figured it out and what was I missing? No, no one knows. And even as you get older, you realize that, but you don't have anything figured out more. You still feel like that. What the hell did I say that for?

[Ted Danson]

You just don't care as much. I have this prayer when I go into a situation like that. I said, please do not tilt too far forward. Just relax. Let people come to you. You don't have to, you know. And the last thing, and it never works. The last thing I went to was a Screen Actors Guild award. And we were kind of late because we were late to the crowd. So they were just starting. As we walked through the crowd to get to our table, it was all roundtables and this sweet lady was leading us and Mary was behind her and I was behind Mary. And I took my eyes off this little line of the sweet lady and Mary and they went left to get to our table. And I went right thinking that it was this table I was approaching and man, I was glad, handing all these actors going, hey, how are you? Good to see you again last time. And I went around the table and somebody finally grabbed me gently by the shoulder. And your table's over here, Mr. Danson. And everyone's looking at you like such a prat.

[Stephen Merchant]

Yeah.

[Ted Danson]

The saving grace is I find my stupidity funny.

[Stephen Merchant]

Right, right.

[Ted Danson]

It kind of delights me.

[Stephen Merchant]

Yes.

[Ted Danson]

That I'm such an idiot.

[Stephen Merchant]

Well, I think when, particularly when something happens, even in the moment that I'm humiliating myself, like the story with the, the Trafalgar Square at New Year.

[Ted Danson]

Yeah.

[Stephen Merchant]

Even at, at the moment it happened, I'm like, this is gold dust. Like, I can't believe my luck. Because you're in a profession that allows you to turn that into something, whether it's stand up or talk show anecdote or whatever. And there's such a relief to that, being able to. And I think I'm all. The thing that I always judge people on is can they laugh at themselves? When I meet people that can, that are never the center of the joke, that never the butt of the joke, that's, that have to sort of win in every conversation, in every anecdote. I know I'm, they're never going be my people. I just can't tune into that.

[Ted Danson]

I like the sauce thing to be around.

[Stephen Merchant]

Yeah. I like the people that are willing to share the time that they fell on their face.

[Ted Danson]

I, I, I, I'm interested in alpha males, but ultimately they're boring.

[Stephen Merchant]

Yes, yes.

[Ted Danson]

You know?

[Stephen Merchant]

Yeah.

[Ted Danson]

They soak up too much oxygen.

[Stephen Merchant]

They're just soaking up all the air in the room, aren't they? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I find that, you know, you, sometimes I, I, you realize what someone's like and you're like, okay, I just, I'll just let them talk and then go find someone else. I'm not going to compete with this, the one upmanship thing. I've never got into that. It's just, hey, let the work do the talking. Yeah.

[Ted Danson]

I'm so grateful you came in and talked with me. I so admire your work as an actor. I love watching you act, but I cannot wait to go home and see the rest of Outlaws. That's incredible. I just love it.

[Stephen Merchant]

Well, it's a huge thrill for you to have invited me. I'm such a fan of you as you know. And so yeah, I'm sending all that praise back at you and thank you so much for having me.

[Ted Danson]

That was Stephen Merchant, really. He's kind of John Cleese like to me. And check out Outlaws. I think it's on Prime Video and it's really brilliant. That's it for our show this week. Special thanks to our friends at Team Coco. If you enjoyed this episode, please send it to someone you love. Be sure and check us out on YouTube where you can watch full length episodes. As always, subscribe on your favorite podcast app and give us a great rating and review if you're in the mood on Apple Podcasts. Thank you. We'll have more for you next week. Where everybody knows.

[Woody Harrelson]

You'Ve been listening to where everybody knows your name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson sometimes. The show is produced by me, Nick Leow. Our executive producers are Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross and myself. Sarah Fedorovich is our supervising producer. Engineering and mixing by Joanna Samuel with support from Eduardo Perez, research by Alyssa Grohl, talent booking by Paula Davis and Gina Batista. Our theme music is by Woody Harrelson.

[Ted Danson]

Antony Genn, Mary Steenbergen and John Osborne.

[Woody Harrelson]

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[Ted Danson]

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[Stephen Merchant]

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[Ted Danson]

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[Stephen Merchant]

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[Ted Danson]

To a lot of good the Oregon Lottery Together, we do good things. Lottery games are based on chance and.

[Stephen Merchant]

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