Where Should We Begin? with Esther Perel

Episode: Esther Calling – "A Secret I Can't Even Tell My Therapist"

Date: September 8, 2025

Overview

In this emotionally raw and insightful session, renowned psychotherapist Esther Perel engages in a one-time phone intervention with a woman (“B”) grappling with a deeply personal and complex secret: her ongoing emotional connection to an ex-husband from a tumultuous, at times abusive, marriage. Despite separation and years of therapeutic work, B confesses to Esther her plan for a clandestine weekend reunion—one she hasn’t shared with anyone else, not even her therapist.

Through probing questions and compassionate reflections, Esther helps her explore the interplay of hope, shame, autonomy, and longing, guiding B towards a more integrated self-understanding. The episode navigates themes of self-deception, relational patterns, accountability, and the difficulties of making decisions that feel at odds with the expectations of loved ones and helping professionals.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Split Self: Logic vs. Longing

• B introduces herself as being torn between her logical self (informed by friends, family, and therapists, who see the relationship as unhealthy) and her emotional self (which experienced unmatched passion, desire, and a sense of being seen in her ex’s presence).

  • "I kind of feel like I have two opposing parts that I have not been able to reconcile for years." (00:25)

• Despite physical and relational distance, her ex’s intermittent contact keeps the hope for rekindled love alive.

• Esther identifies the secret not just as the clandestine weekend, but the secret she keeps from herself—how these two sides “hold secrets from each other.” (07:21)

2. Revisiting the Breakup: Patterns, Accountability, and Growth

• B recounts writing and recently reading a “breakup letter” to her ex, confronting him with their relationship’s "worst moments." She describes his reaction as sincere and accountable (apology, ownership).

• Esther inquires about specific patterns in the relationship:

  • B shares stories of emotional neglect, control, and combative interactions, referencing an early incident that symbolized her ex’s discomfort with her independence:

    • "Rather than kind of send me off in love, he said, oh, will you go buy me a cup of coffee before you go? And I was so stunned and confused." (08:31)

  • Esther interprets the behavior:

    Esther: "It's about your professional, autonomous pursuit. It symbolizes you being able to do things without me. It highlights my dependence on you. It highlights your independence from me. And I don't like the fact that you are completely involved in something that's important to you when what should be most important to you is me." (09:55)

• Both partners contributed to the cycle of resentment and codependency.

  • B acknowledges her own role: "I stopped working on myself, stopped investing in my own social life, my own career, and became very resentful of him..." (12:14)

• Esther reframes the therapist and social circle’s perception:

  "The secret isn’t necessarily that you’re going to see him. The secret is how either you’ve come to represent yourself or how the story was told back then..." (16:06)

3. The Role of Family, Enmeshment, and Seeking Autonomy

• B discloses a history of emotional enmeshment with her mother and control from her father, factors that drove her not only toward physical separation but also influenced her attachment style:

  • "My mother... shared so much about why my dad was not a good husband. They eventually got divorced... I moved halfway across the country to get some breathing room... And this relationship was the first big decision I made, not because I should or anybody else wanted me to, but because it’s what I wanted." (27:37)

• Esther points out the repetition of attachment patterns:

  "And then you went and recreated the same emotional enmeshment... You went with the attachment model that you knew?" (29:19)

• B admits to living with shame for both her role in the relationship’s dysfunction and for still longing for her ex.

4. Deciding for the Self: Grandiosity, Secrets, and Real Autonomy

• Esther explores the “grandiosity” of feeling uniquely qualified to judge the relationship:

  "I know something that no one else knows... the inside track you’re talking about. And what is hardest sometimes for people to disconnect with is less the person that they are leaving than the conviction that led them to that person." (32:47)

• The conversation turns to the meaning of secrecy. Is B hiding the weekend reunion for fear of her loved ones’ reactions, or is it a way of maintaining denial and avoiding internal reconciliation?

  "Esther: 'It’s not, I won’t tell anyone because they will [react]; it’s I won’t tell anyone because it will activate the other part of me...and I find myself either in a state of denial...or in a state of ambivalence...'" (44:11)

5. A New Kind of Leaving and Real Closure

• Esther suggests that whether B rekindles the relationship or not, the goal is for her to leave (if she chooses to) "for herself" this time – not just to fulfill others’ expectations.

  • "Can there be a different kind of leaving? ...that may all be true. But you may say, despite all of that, I feel like I need to go. And now that I know more about what I want, I want to go and decide this on my own and make that decision myself." (35:39)

• Real accountability, not just apology or behavior change, is what predicts new potential in reconnection:

  "When people come back and all they say is, I’m sorry, the first question to ask is, For what? How much do they actually see and have taken stock and taken responsibility for their contribution to what happened? ... That’s where it starts." (36:25)

6. Reconciling with Her Therapist and Support Network

• Esther urges B to bring this conversation to her therapist, seeing non-disclosure as a “pseudo-autonomy”:

  "It will be very different if you do it behind their back, because that’s pseudo autonomy. The point is, can you listen to them and listen to you... Sometimes [the audience] does see something that you don’t see..." (41:20)

• B resonates with the invitation to stand in her own authority, while also acknowledging and considering the wisdom of those around her.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• B, on the secret:
  "No one else knows. No family, no friends. He is the only person who knows." (07:13)

• Esther, on the couple’s dynamic:
  "He became your project, and you needed him to justify all the sacrifices you made. And so now he had to perform on your behalf so that you would not be as resentful for what you had given up." (13:29)

• On autonomy and accountability:

  Esther: "If you're just gonna shut them out and say, you know, I know better, it's, I know something, I need to go check it, and I need you to stay close by me because I don't always have a good sense of when bad is bad, when dangerous is dangerous, when unprotected is unprotected, when abusive is abusive, when violent is violent..." (41:20)

• On what’s empowering for B:
  "What is new and feels empowering is to recognize the way I have continued the pattern...and kind of reclaiming some of my autonomy, that I don’t have to justify myself to [others] or explain myself to them. And I certainly don’t have to make life choices based on what? Take a poll and ask the audience...trusting myself, trusting my own decisions..." (40:11)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:25 – B describes the “split self” and the secret
• 04:18 – Breakup letter and early relationship patterns
• 07:21 – Discussion of secrecy and the emotional/logical split
• 08:31-09:55 – Key incident symbolizing deeper relational wounds; Esther’s interpretation
• 12:14-15:14 – Resentment, codependency, and honesty about mutual responsibility
• 16:06-16:37 – How B’s story is framed by others/therapist
• 27:37-29:30 – Family dynamics, emotional enmeshment, and repetition of attachment patterns
• 32:47-33:45 – “Grandiosity” of believing in the unique knowledge of the relationship; attachment to conviction
• 35:39-36:25 – Advice on real closure, new kinds of leaving, and weighing accountability
• 40:11-41:20 – Empowerment, autonomy, and the role of community feedback
• 44:11-45:19 – The purpose of the meeting: reconciling internal voices
• 46:06-47:28 – Next steps: integrating the session with therapy and support

Takeaways

• Growth and Accountability: True healing and autonomy require both an acknowledgment of past patterns (in self and partner) and the courage to act from one's own convictions, not just in reaction to others.
• Healthy Secrets: The most important “secrets” are about the parts of ourselves that remain split or unintegrated. The real work lies in aligning those voices and bringing openness, not just to others, but within.
• Closure & New Beginnings: Returning to a former partner can be a step forward or back—but only if it’s done with clear-eyed self-awareness and mutual accountability. The decision must be owned, not hidden.

Final Note:
Esther champions B’s desire for personal truth, encouraging her to bring her full self—secrets and all—into the therapy room and her life. The session offers a powerful template for anyone torn between longing and logic, and for those seeking not just new love, but new kinds of self-trust and relational closure.