Podcast Summary: "Is It Our ADHD, OCD, and PTSD? Or Is It Us?"

Podcast: Where Should We Begin? with Esther Perel
Host: Esther Perel
Date: October 6, 2025

Episode Overview

In this raw and illuminating session, Esther Perel counsels a couple navigating the stressors of new parenthood, differing mental health diagnoses (ADHD, possible CPTSD, Autism), evolving professional identities, and financial stress. Throughout, Esther challenges the pair’s reliance on psychological jargon and diagnosis labels, guiding them to move beyond therapy-speak and focus on the emotional realities and patterns that underpin their relationship struggles. Together, they examine trust, support, communication, the dynamics of “enmeshment,” and the critical role of playfulness in reconnecting.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Strain of Parenthood, Identity, and Finances

• New Baby Stress: The couple discuss how becoming first-time parents to an 18-month-old triggered depression and anxiety, especially for the male partner.
  • Partner 1 (Male): "In response to [the pregnancy], my anxiety and depression just shot through the roof." (01:57)
• Career and Money Concerns: The female partner’s pursuit of illustration/art has introduced financial uncertainty, leading to friction over roles and expectations.
  • Partner 2 (Female): "We're running out of money and he can't support us on his income only...then I will get mired in self doubt." (02:52)
  • Partner 1 (Male): "A lot of that comes down to money as well..." (02:35)

2. Neurodivergence & Therapy-Speak Saturation

• Both partners navigate neurodivergence: she identifies with ADHD and he suspects he falls on the autism spectrum or has CPTSD.
  • Partner 2 (Female): "I have ADHD, he believes he has autism...we have very different ways of relating to the world." (03:33)
• Esther’s Caution: Esther points out how therapy buzzwords and diagnosis acronyms dominate their dialogue, often obscuring deeper understanding.
  • Esther Perel: "You label every behavior, you label yourself. It's like you're not unhappy, you're depressed. You're not worried, you're anxious, you're not rebellious, you're ADD...In effect, you never say what you feel." (24:42)
• Potential Pitfall: Over-reliance on labels risks reducing each other to a diagnosis, collapsing curiosity and real connection.
  • Esther Perel: "Many people live with health and mental health conditions that doesn't define their entire being...the last thing I would want to do in my work is curb the curiosity for knowing more because we think we know, because we have the refuge of the labels." (08:56)

3. The Loop: Support, Trust, and Power Struggles

• Both partners articulate feeling unloved, unsupported, and trapped in self-protective cycles—each tending to their own survival and treating the other's coping mechanisms as problematic.
  • Partner 1 (Male): "We've been so focused on our own survival that we've treated the other person's coping mechanisms as a problem...I responded to her with judgment, annoyance..." (10:10)
  • Partner 2 (Female): "We both care about each other deeply but we don't trust each other to really care about the other person as much as we want them to say that." (11:31)
• Communication Breakdown: Requests become power struggles, and good intentions are interpreted as control or criticism.
  • Esther Perel: "We are very kind, compassionate people who get into power struggles, but we don't name them as power struggles." (14:22)
• Reciprocal Undermining: Each person feels diminished by the other, despite claiming the other holds more 'power' or influence.
  • Esther Perel (on Partner 1): "He can shrink her into a tiny shrimp. He can make her doubt herself...But in his mind he's doing that because he feels small himself and as a result he tries to bring her down." (15:13)

4. Everyday Conflicts as Patterns

• Personalization of Issues: Everyday logistical conflicts (child’s food, plans, schedule) become loaded indictments of character or concern, cycling into frustration and withdrawal.
  • Partner 2 (Female): "Everything that I say to him, he's taking it as I'm judging him...he can never do something right for me." (21:03)
  • Esther Perel: "They talk about trust, vulnerability, anxiety, depression...but...the relationship is permeated by aggression, covert and overt. They are symmetric...both doing the same thing to each other." (24:42)
• Symmetry in Criticism: Both partners indicate a tendency to reframe observations as personal attacks, often missing the practical point.

5. Revisiting Family & Childhood Roots

• Partner 1's Background: Shares his childhood fear, feeling materially cared for but emotionally unsafe and misunderstood.
  • Partner 1 (Male): "I was provided for materially, but it was like there's no emotion to it. And so me being an emotional, sensitive, scared child...I was just met with this constant questioning of who I was and what I was about..." (42:01)

6. The Role of Humor and Playfulness

• Esther’s Prescription: Diffuse recurring, escalating interactions with playful interventions: music, ritual, humorous naming of anxieties (e.g., "Oh Mary, come on, what are you doing?").
  • Esther Perel: "You can regain a lot of power and a lot of control with humor, because humor brings perspective...and playfulness actually introduces a boundary...to create a more healthy space." (24:42, 56:00)
• Practical Rituals: Suggests establishing simple couple rituals (a kiss in the morning, music, candle ceremonies) to reset emotional tone, provide connection, and break negative cycles.
  • Partner 2 (Female): "We used to have moments where we would light a candle, turn off all the lights, play music..." (52:37)
  • Esther Perel: "Rituals are routines that are imbued with creativity and intention...but you don't have enough rituals that create an enshrinement around the two of you." (53:32)

7. Autonomy vs. Togetherness & Enmeshment

• Enmeshment Realization: The couple recognize the consequences of years spent constantly together, often in small spaces, leading to blurred individuality (“enmeshment”).
  • Partner 2 (Female): "We, like, never were apart for years. We lived together in a really small space, often in tents...I think at a certain point...we realized this is actually really unhealthy." (50:06)
• Task for Growth: Esther highlights the developmental necessity of learning to balance separateness and connection—applicable with the self, a partner, and their child.
  • Esther Perel: "One of the most important tasks in every relationship is how we straddle autonomy and togetherness...you're new and gradually learning to create separateness, independence, individuality, freedom, air space differentiation..." (50:54)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Jargonization:
  Esther Perel (24:42):
  "You label every behavior, you label yourself. It's like you're not unhappy, you're depressed. You're not worried, you're anxious, you're not rebellious, you're ADD… In effect, you never say what you feel."

• On Defensive Power Dynamics:
  Esther Perel (15:13):
  "He can shrink her into a tiny shrimp. He can make her doubt herself...But in his mind he's doing that because he feels small himself and as a result he tries to bring her down to the same level."

• On Changing Emotional Rituals:
  Esther Perel (52:14):
  "If you shift the mood, then you can shift the dynamic. And whoever initiates the disentanglement needs to be met by the other… No talking, because in those moments, talking is not helpful."

• On Humor as Boundary:
  Esther Perel (56:00):
  "The essential word is playful…I have a feeling that some of the trust that you're talking about is more likely to come back with playfulness than with rules."

• On Joint Life Navigating (the Boat Metaphor):
  Partner 1 (Male) (19:23):
  "I'm running around plugging holes on a boat left and right...And I can imagine you saying, where is she on this boat? And I'm like, oh, she's up at the top deck pointing at all the beautiful islands that she wants to go to...while I’m down here by myself being like, there's this massive hole..."

• On the Desire for Ritual & Slowdown:
  Partner 1 (Male) (54:06):
  "The alternative is this feeling of, like, things are always falling forward for me. And it's like, can we pull back? And, like, in the morning, kiss the morning before we say anything else?"

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |---------------|------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:38-03:56 | Initial context: Child, new parenthood, career, neurodivergence | | 05:10-06:13 | Current emotional “pulse check”; experiencing relief and joy | | 07:27-08:56 | The “life is pointless” narrative and the power of self-statement| | 10:10-15:12 | Power struggles, accountability, and cycles of self-protection | | 19:23-20:22 | “Plugging the boat” metaphor and teamwork discussion | | 21:00-24:42 | Everyday requests morph into criticism and trust issues | | 24:42-29:13 | Therapy jargon, labeling, and confusion over intent | | 42:01-45:15 | Delving into Partner 1’s childhood and the roots of anxiety | | 47:10-53:10 | Play, ritual, humor as relationship repair strategies | | 53:32-56:00 | Reintroducing ritual, playfulness, and concrete interaction shifts|

Episode Takeaways & Tone

• Language & Labels: Esther consistently redirects the couple from the comfort of psychological labels to candid self-expression.
• Patterns, Not Pathologies: The recurring struggles are not merely the sum of ADHD, OCD, or PTSD but reflect relationship patterns, emotional histories, and unresolved needs.
• Trust Rebuilt Through Play: Playfulness and new shared rituals, not further dialogue or diagnosis, are the first steps toward breaking destructive cycles and rekindling trust.
• Authentic, Empathic, and Practical: The tone is warm, gently challenging, and replete with pragmatic suggestions.

For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

• This episode strips back the comforting veil of therapy-speak to reveal how relational patterns—especially those around control, trust, and unspoken family histories—drive many couple’s core struggles. Esther’s guidance is to foster connection through everyday ritual, humor, and honest emotional presence, rather than getting stuck in the quicksand of diagnosis. The session is filled with relatable moments, exemplifying how even the most self-aware partners can benefit from stepping outside their narrative loops.