← Where the River Took Us
Where the River Took Us
Faith After the Flood
00:39:07
A conversation about faith with Dallas attorney R.J. Harber, who lost most of his family in the July 4 flood. We connected as survivors and during our conversation, I learned that even though we believe very different things and engage spiritually in...
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- [00:00]
A
Before we get started, a warning that this show contains descriptions of subjects including child loss, drowning and grief. Texas monthly. Around 6pm on the Wednesday night after the flood, I arrived at a church in West Austin where I come each week to meet with a group of sober men. These guys are an important part of my journey in sobriety. We support each other and hold each other accountable. We talk about things like faith and what we believe in and how to live according to certain principles. The goal is to handle what happens in life and what life brings you in a way that is healthy and effective and to do so without alcohol. And these guys help me with that. I've grown very close with these guys over the years. Most of them have been out to the River House with me and we were planning another trip out there a couple weeks after July 4th. I didn't want to miss the meeting. These guys knew what my family went through and I knew they'd be eager to hear from me, to check in, to offer support, to look me in the eye and let me know what they see. When I walked in, I hugged everyone, wiped some tears from my face, and we all sat down in a circle to start the meeting. Then, like I do here every week, I I shared. Sharing is a cornerstone of what we do in recovery. But that day I understood that it was even more fundamental. Telling my story was an act of survival. When I finished my share, I said the customary three words open to feedback. The response I got was simple, keep talking about it. I quit drinking seven years ago and continued to do the work to make the most of long term sobriety. That process began with putting my faith in in something, finding a higher power, something greater than myself. Before the flood, I think I had a sense that even if I didn't understand it at the time, things tend to work out in the end. I don't think that anymore. I experienced something that has changed what I believe. It changed me because it's the closest look I've ever had at the forces of the universe. While I was in the tree in the middle of a flooded river, it was like being stuck in an elevator with my higher power. I was totally powerless and it was not comforting. So how do I sort through that and how do I reconcile the beliefs that I've relied on for seven years? What do I believe now? From Texas Monthly, I'm Aaron Parsley and this is where the river took us. Episode 5 Faith after the Flood. After the flood, I saw how religious people showed up in so many ways. They are doing a lot of good by comforting people through loss and helping them with rebuilding homes and also rebuilding their faith at the same time. We've experienced some people who've been, in the name of their religion, rather intrusive. People have asked my sister to pray with them. Someone sent her a Bible with Clay's name on it that she didn't ask for. Even in the hospital that day, there were chaplains and ministers around handing us literature or telling us that God has a plan. I know they were trying to be helpful, but it wasn't helpful, and it can sometimes be hurtful. For me, spirituality is so intensely personal. I certainly don't feel like I need to convince others to believe what I believe or use it as a reason to do good. I found my faith in this journey in sobriety. The key for me is to remember that there is so much that's beyond my control. Things I don't want will happen in life, and I have to accept them. And that's where I think I still have faith. I have faith that the universe is going to shape me, and I have a say in how it shapes me, how I respond. That's what I still believe in. I practice gratitude. I strive for acceptance. I try to be a good person and be of service to others. But I do think that going through the flood has shown me that maybe my place in this universe is not exactly what I thought it was. Because I've been talking about faith with people in my life. It was on my mind. And my friend Michael McCown, who lost his daughter, Lenny McCown at Camp mystic, told me about RJ harbor, who he had gone to high school with and who he was reunited with after the flood. RJ was along the Guadalupe river on July 4th with his wife Annie and their daughters, Brooke and Blair, and his parents, Mike and Charlene Harbor. And RJ and his wife Annie were the only two that survived. They lost both their daughters, and RJ Lost his parents. Michael suggested I might want to talk to RJ and he gave him my contact information. In November, I got an email from RJ he said he wasn't really sure why he was reaching out, but that he wanted to talk and that he was hoping I could help him keep his daughter's memory alive. I called him back right away, and we just connected sort of survivor to survivor. And he told me on that initial call that he didn't think that he and his wife Annie would have made it without their faith.
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B
Hey, R.J. nice to finally meet you.
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A
Can I give you a hug?
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B
Absolutely.
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A
How you feeling?
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B
I'm feeling all right.
- [05:55]
A
Okay. Yeah, me too. Yeah. It's good to see you in person. We walked into the studio. RJ told me more about himself. He said he's a seventh generation Texan. He's lived in Dallas his whole life. He's an attorney there, and his wife Annie teaches at the Catholic school where their daughters had gone. RJ had driven down from Dallas for this interview, and once we sat down in the studio, the first thing I asked him was why he'd agreed to do it, what he hoped to get from being a part of this.
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B
Around November, I was really thinking about the other victims of the flood besides the mystic families. And I felt like the support network wasn't there for those people the same way it was there for the mystic families.
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A
So I appreciate that instinct of yours. Something I. I wanted to do too, is make those connections, right?
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B
There were tons of beautiful souls who were lost in this flood, and I don't want their memories to disappear.
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A
RJ's daughters, Brooke and Blair, were 11 and 13 last summer. I want to just let you tell us about your daughters. We've talked about this a little bit on the phone. Just tell us who they were.
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B
They. They were very different, which is so funny because, you know, you raised them the same way. They really looked out for each other and loved each other. Brooke, my youngest, was just a ball of energy. She was the funniest girl I've ever known. She made friends everywhere she went. She was just her own spirit, and she was just constantly, constantly looking for fun. Blair was a little different than Brooke. She was more reserved, kind of how I am. She wanted to be with her close knit group of friends, but with those girls, she was extremely funny and witty and just smart. She was my sous chef. But more importantly, she was the best baker I've ever known. I'd come home and she'd be making a double layered cake with homemade frosting. And just 13 years old and just the sweetest girl you've ever. You could ever imagine. She was also just saintly. Blair took her faith very seriously. She prayed the rosary every single night. She was just my comfort and my security and my joy.
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A
Like me, RJ has long memories of the Guadalupe, and he wanted to share that place with his daughters. He and his family used to stay at the River Inn, just like I had as a kid.
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It was a beautiful little resort. It's something right out of the 60s or 70s. It hasn't changed at all.
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My dad was in here and I asked him about it. And he reminded me that I went down the water slide so many times and I wore a hole in my shorts.
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That every single kid that happened to.
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When he got a little older, RJ would come back for summer camp. He went to Camp La Junta.
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And that just started a love affair with the area down there.
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Did your girls feel the same way about it?
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They hated the drive, but other than that, they loved it down there.
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RJ's family bought a cabin in Casa Bonita. It's a small community of about 20 cabins. There's a pool and. And a lot of room for kids to play while families vacation there.
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And that was the beauty of being down there. You felt so safe. The girls were not on their iPads or video games or watching tv. I used to take the girls and put them at the end of the kayak and we would catch turtles on the banks of the river, and they would do that for hours on end. That was my favorite place on Earth until July 4, 2025. My. My mom loved to entertain. It was her favorite thing in the world. So she went around to all the cabins at the Casa Bonita community and invited everyone to dinner, and everyone accepted. So there was a communal pavilion, and there was a fire pit down there, and I put some charcoals in there and made chicken for everyone. Blair made chocolate chip cookies for everyone and helped set the table. My dad brought bottles of wine down there for everyone to share, and Brooke helped drive the golf cart up and down from the house to help set the table. And it was exactly what my mom loved. It was the communal aspect of it and just socializing with everyone and everyone laughing and having a good time. And my whole family was involved in making that happen. It was an idyllic place. It was a wonderful place.
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The day after that, they all spent that Thursday together, riding horses, playing cornhole and mah jong and basketball, and running into old friends. Annie's birthday was a couple weeks earlier,
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and so we celebrated Annie's birthday. The girls had a wonderful dinner at this restaurant, and we went home.
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RJ and Annie's cabin was too small for everyone, so the girls stayed with RJ's parents in another cabin closer to the river, which some friends had lent them for the weekend. A few days earlier, Blair told her dad that her rosary beads had broken, so RJ had given her his to pray with before she went to bed.
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B
And my parents slept downstairs in the master bedroom. Annie walked the girls down to the house and took them up into the loft of the house where they were sleeping and kissed them both like she always does and told them one last time, I love you always and forever. And then came back.
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A little after midnight, RJ woke up to the sound of the storm. He checked his phone and saw there were flood warnings for Bandera, a town on another river about 30 miles away, but not for hunt along the Guadalupe. So he went back to bed, and
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around 3:20am, Annie and I were both awake because the thunder was just booming. You've never heard anything like it. And the rain on the tin roofs sounded like constant drumming. And so we were just sitting there in bed talking, and I said, I bet they're really scared with all this lightning and thunder.
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RJ remembered he'd left some fishing gear and a kayak down by the river, too, and he worried they'd float away. About 10 minutes after he woke up, he went to check on everything.
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I put my foot down out of bed and I said, annie, the cabin's flooding. And then I walked to the front room of the house and there was about 2ft of water in the front room. And I said, annie, we need to get out of here right now.
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The door wouldn't open, so they tried the ground floor window.
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It took us about two minutes to put shoes on and grab our cell phones. And by the time we were out the window, the water was even with the window.
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The cabins were arranged into horseshoe with RJ and Annie's cabin about six buildings up from the river. The girls and RJ's parents were staying in the cabin closest to the river, about 45ft from its bank on a normal day.
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So once Annie and I swam out the window, we ran about 100ft and woke up neighbors. I believe we saved their lives.
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RJ needed a way to reach his girls and his parents. Eventually, he found a kayak and then a paddle.
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And I kayaked about a football field all the way down to the end of the third house closest to the river, when I was pushed by a swell into the house's stilt and pinned there with the rushing water against the stilt. And at that point in time, that's when I was able to take the flashlight out. And I could see the river was just white water.
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RJ could see the upper level of the cabin was still above water.
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The girls still had about 5ft clearance, so I knew they would be scared, but I also knew they were still alive at that moment. And a tree came at my kayak heading down river. Then a car almost capsized me, and I had to make A decision I knew it was. I've kayaked for thousands of miles. I know how to kayak. I knew it was physically impossible for me to get to them.
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So RJ Turned around, and I know
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two things to be true at the same time. I know I did everything I possibly could in that moment, and I had to get back to my wife. And I also know that if I had known they would die, I would have gone and tried to rescue them in the kayak and I would have died in the river as well. I woke up on that kayak every time I woke up for three months straight. It was the hardest, worst decision of my life. But it was also the only logical one, because I did know my wife was still alive. And I knew if the structure held, they would be shaken, but okay.
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By the time RJ Made it back to Annie and the other survivors, all of the cabins were filling up with water.
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I don't remember how I got back. I blacked out. And someone told me this later. I don't remember telling Annie this when I got back, that if the structure holds and the girls live and we don't leave, they're going to be without parents.
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The group walked across the road to take shelter at another house. Once they were inside, RJ Checked his phone.
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Brooke had sent me a text message at exactly 3:30am the second I put my foot down that said, I love you. And I don't get cell service down there. I never received text messages down there, so it was a miracle. I sent all of them back a text message that said, I love you. Go to the roof. Blair and Brooke both sent Annie a text message saying, I love you to her. And I go back to this constantly. Just how beautiful of a message that was. They didn't send a text saying, I'm scared or help. They sent one text to each of us saying, I love you. And I just think that's a message of hope. And it also kind of gives me a feeling that there was a calm in that horrible moment, that God was protecting them in that moment.
- [18:24]
A
The Fourth of July turned into a day of waiting for RJ And Annie, a terrible day of waiting and holding out hope for news of their daughters. They spent most of the day sheltering in a house with other survivors and periodically checking in for news about Brooke and Blair at a Methodist church in Hunt. That evening, RJ Went to Ingram Elementary School, the reunification center where my family and I had been and where he ran into Michael McCown. On the night of the 4th, local officials asked the parents of still missing children to gather at a Baptist church away from the media that had descended upon the school.
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B
They had us at a secret location at a Baptist church and they just kind of gave us the run around. I knew what the deal was. I pretty much knew if you weren't filmed by noon on the 4th, it was just very bad news.
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A
Instead of waiting there for news, RJ spent the night in a hotel. Early the next morning, he returned to the Baptist church, but then decided to go visit a nearby Catholic church to pray the rosary. This was about 9am on July 5th.
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And we go in, we pray the rosary and by the time we came out, that's when they called us and said we needed to go back to the reunification center. And we knew what that meant. So we go there. They tell us first that Blair passed away. And they said, actually both of your girls have been found.
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A Texas Ranger told Annie the girls had been found together miles away, holding hands.
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I don't see how that's possible with the way the flood was, but she was told that. But even just being found together is a miracle in this.
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There was still no news about RJ's parents, but RJ and Annie were directed to Grimes Funeral Chapels to identify the girls.
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They had a makeshift tent. We walked into the tent, Annie and I did, and were just shocked. We didn't know what to think. Here's their beautiful lifeless bodies with river washed hair. And we just leave the tint utterly defeated.
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At the church earlier, RJ had asked to meet with a priest, Father Rafael Duda. RJ didn't know him well, but they'd heard him give mass whenever they were in town over the years. But Father Rafael wasn't there. He'd actually just been transferred to San Antonio. Now though, as they stood inside the funeral home feeling completely lost, RJ and Annie saw Father Raphael walking towards them. He'd come back to help and he
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grabbed us by the shoulders and he took us back into the tent and he prayed the same prayers we prayed every single night with the girls. And I think he changed that moment for us. I think if Annie and I had just seen their bodies and left without going back in there and praying with the priests, it would have been a totally different experience.
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Eventually, RJ got word that his parents bodies had been found too. I think when we first spoke you were like, I haven't even been able to process that. I mean, your loss is so unfathomable and it happened in so many ways.
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B
I was just last week really missing My dad being able to just sit down and laugh with them. But there's something about just the natural order of things. A parent is never supposed to lose their child. And it's just so heartbreaking and devastating. And I think the reason I haven't been able to grieve my parents yet is just because of how much we loved and love Blair and Brooke.
- [22:43]
A
That makes sense. And I see that. You know, I see that with my sister and how excruciating and how difficult and how constant it is to be missing your child. I mean, it's just. It's an impossible situation to be in.
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B
The way I put it is every day is the worst day of your life. And the only way forward, or for us at least, is through faith. I don't believe we would be here if we didn't have faith. And Annie and I have really leaned into each other. I feel like we're grieving in different ways, but we are together in it. And if she's down, I pick her up. If I'm down, she picks me up. We really are getting through this together.
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For rj, the question of how to navigate life in his faith began immediately after the flood.
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On the way home, I told Annie I wanted to go to Mass in the morning, 9am Mass, which we always went to. She was like, I can't do that. I can't do that. And I was like, no, I want to go to 9am Mass tomorrow.
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A
As much as it hurt, RJ said this was something he just had to do because of his daughters. Like, is it that you were thinking of them and you thought they would want you to go?
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I feel like the Holy Spirit was working through them. And part of going to Mass is obeying the ten Commandments, which is obey the Sabbath is one of them. And I didn't want to sin. I wanted to do everything I possibly could and still want to to see them again. So I told Annie, part of our obligation is to go to Mass, obey the Sabbath. For some reason, I wasn't angry with God. I didn't have hurt because of God. I just submitted myself totally to him.
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And they've continued going even when it hurts.
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Going to Mass is a double edged sword. It's where I feel the closest to them, but at the same time, it's just so hard to be there. I feel closest to them when I take the Eucharist because the veil of heaven and earth is just right there. And I go and pray afterwards and I can see them sometimes and talk to them sometimes. But it's also just so painful to be there because we've been going there for 11 years and sitting in the same pew, and they're not there with us. Sometimes at Mass, I can still feel Blair putting her head on my shoulder and still hear Brooke saying, can we leave early?
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RJ Told me he didn't always have such devotion to his faith. He was raised Episcopalian.
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And then I would say about 10 years ago, I became very interested in the question of, is God real? And I spent about two years just studying that. And once I came to the realization that God was real, I said, okay, well, then what's the true faith?
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The answer he settled on was the Catholic Church. Can you just talk about. Like, have you questioned anything? Like, how does that work for you?
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I really haven't.
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RJ told me what happened on July 4th taught him that he isn't in control. I was a little surprised by how much we were aligned. I could relate to this. Having faith is practical, especially now.
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I kind of realized that, in a way, I was trying to act as a God here on Earth. I'm like, I was trying to project the future and what kind of outcomes were going to happen. And then this happened, and I realized I don't have any control over that. I have zero control over that. And really none of us do. Now, what I do ask God all the time, and what my wife asks God all the time as well, is, why is this our cross to bear? I don't know if we're strong enough to bear this, losing both our daughters. So we constantly question God, why is this our cross to bear? But he can handle that question.
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Are you seeking an answer to that?
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I don't think we're in a state yet where we can get an answer to that.
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About a week and a half after the flood, they held a funeral for both girls at their church, St. Rita's
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and they've never had a funeral the size of this funeral. Literally, there was probably over 2,000 people there, if not more. There was no room in the church. There was no parking. It was just packed. And it's a testament to how many lives that they've touched. Like I said, Blair was holy, so people saw her altar serving. People knew her relationship with God, knew how important God and faith was to her. I'll receive messages all the time. I'm going back to Mass because of your girls. I'm praying the rosary every day because of your girls. We've had close friends of ours who hadn't taken communion in 15 years. Because they hadn't been to confession, going to confession and taking communion for the first time. And that's part of why I'm speaking with you, because I really do think that they're changing lives and they're bringing people closer to God.
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RJ had seen the same kind of impact in the sports world. Brooke played lacrosse.
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The lacrosse community is a close knit community. She was friends with all the girls on all these teams. Several high school girls changed their number their senior year to number eight in honor of Brooke.
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I can tell when you talk about them what they're passionate about, athletics and their faith and how proud, you know, you seem of them. And you still are so proud of them and what they're still doing in those spheres, right?
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B
Oh, absolutely. They're not gone. But my relationship with them is growing and evolving in that I can actually continue communicating with them through prayer. And it's a beautiful thing. And their legacy is going to change people's lives. I tell Annie all the time that Brooke and Blair in 13 and 11 years have done more and changed more lives than most people do in a lifetime. And I truly believe that, and my parents as well. They're causing people to come closer together and to create a community and to be there for each other and not take this life for granted. Yeah.
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RJ says their daughters are still helping him and Annie find things to look forward to.
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There's certain things we're looking for and that we're asking God for. We're trying to have another child because we love being parents. That's our favorite thing in the entire world is being parents. We love our girls, so we're specifically asking for that. But why we have to live with this pain, I don't think we'll ever know until we. We pass away.
- [31:25]
A
You've talked about your faith that you will see your girls again and how it's sort of inspired you to live a religious life and to be devoted to your. What you believe. Can you just talk about that a little bit? Like, that belief and how it motivates you.
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B
I think it's a combination of things. We want to live a righteous life, so we're reunited with them again one day. But we also taught our girls to try their best, always. I think from this you become more empathetic. I think you become more charitable. I think you see how other people are hurting and you feel for them more deeply and you want to be there for them.
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A
You know, it's really hard for me to imagine, but I keep thinking about my sister too. And she's had to deal with that moment when you're not in control, she's not in control. This flood is in control. And as badly as you want to save someone, go somewhere, it's just not possible. And that is. It's hard to accept. What I learned is that even though we believe very different things and engage spiritually in very different ways, the result is kind of the same. You know, he believes that he will be with his girls again one day. And for now, he's just. He wants to live in a way that continues to set a good example for them and for others. He wants to go to church, be of service, practice forgiveness, just be a good person, because that's the thing that he believes will get him the chance to be with his girls again in spirit or however that works. And I just thought it was interesting that, you know, I'm not a part of a religion. I don't read Scripture, and I think RJ does. And yet the result in what we want to do after something like this and how we want to live is actually pretty similar. And, you know, a key aspect of my faith is the support I get from the group of sober guys I meet with on Wednesday nights. We don't worship or sing hymns, but I get something out of it that's similar to what RJ Finds in his church community. For him, that community has been so important. And one man in particular, the priest who'd come back to Kerrville to be with him and Annie at the funeral
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home, Father Raphael, he had no obligation to drive in from San Antonio to meet us in Kerrville. He came into Dallas for three days for the funeral. He's met us in Austin. He's driven to Dallas and stayed with us in our home.
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Father Raphael has helped them navigate their
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grief because he said the river didn't kill them, the weather did. And him saying that allowed me to separate my memories and experiences with them at the River House from that event. And it's true, the weather killed them. I have not been back there and honestly probably can't for a long time. So I'm trying just to hold on to those good memories I have with my family there and try to separate it from what happened.
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A
Father Raphael knew how hard the holidays would be for RJ And Annie, so he invited them to join him for Christmas in his home country of Poland.
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We couldn't tell you where in Poland we were, and we just stayed at his friend's house. And they treated us just with such kindness and open heartedness. And you could tell it was really touching to them for us to be there. Father Raphael said it was like Mary and Joseph escaping to Egypt, like
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having
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to get out of there.
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Later on in the trip, RJ and Annie explored Italy on their own. In Sorrento, they went out to dinner on New Year's Eve.
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And we sit down and we're halfway through our dinner and we look up and there is the spitting image of Blair sitting down across from us. The same hair, the same eyes. She's wearing exactly the same outfits Blair would be wearing. Her mannerisms are the exact same. She literally sat like Blair did, with her hands folded across the table, one on top of each other, the napkin perfectly placed in her lap. We couldn't believe it. Throughout the entire year, Annie had been looking for signs from Blair because. Because she believed that Blair was angry at her, even though it's theologically impossible for someone to be angry at someone in heaven. And Annie had been looking for a sign all year. And the last day of the year, there's literally Blair sitting down right in front of us.
- [37:01]
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That's incredible. Was that difficult? Was it wonderful?
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It was probably more difficult on her because we were staring at her. But no, we couldn't believe. Was just such a beautiful, beautiful moment. And we know that they were sending us a message from heaven.
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Before we go, I want to say thanks to RJ for sharing his family story with me. And with all of you listening, RJ also told me about a fund they've started to honor Blair and Brooke by raising money to support flood relief efforts, Catholic school education and sports and the Notre Dame Catholic Church in Kerrville. You can visit Blairandbrook.org that's B L A I R and B R O-O-K-E.org to learn more on the next episode of where the River Took Us.
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C
One thing, I'd like to get it kind of cleaned up before the summer because I think about people going down the river and then the campers across the way. I don't want our place to be the reminder of hard times and danger, because it is a beautiful place.
- [38:32]
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Where the River Took Us is a Texas monthly production written and hosted by me. Erin Parsley. Executive producer is Melissa Reese. Produced and edited by Patrick Michaels and Sarah Kinney. Produced, engineered and scored by Brian Standifer story editing by J.K. nichol fact checking by Doyen Oyeni Art by Emily Kimbrough and Victoria Milner. Studio musicians are Jeff Queen and Peter Schultz.