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- [00:00]
A
We are back, the Whiskey Hue, bringing you the latest in tech business and startups mixed with whiskey and a ton of sarcasm. Cue the music. We're back, everybody. This is part of the Prof. Peace series released through the Whiskey Hue stream. We talk about tech, business and culture from sports to media. You know this and how you can invest in this space and win. Today.
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B
You.
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A
You're in for a treat. My guy, Abron Maldonado. I screwed it up. Abron Maldonado is back with us. Actually, you've been to a lot of our events and we've been to. We showcased you as a phenomenal speaker, founder, creator. It's first time on the pod, I think, right, man?
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B
Yes, sir. First time.
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A
Okay. This is great. You're in for a treat audience because he's great. He's real. So real he's gonna mention a drink. So we started to record and he's like, hold up, let me go pour up. And then he runs to the grocery store. Three hours later, he comes back with a beautiful drink. I'm just kidding. I'm like, where you at, man? You don't. I'm just kidding. We'll fake it till we make it. I'm kidding. But he's got a beautiful drink in front of him. We'll get into that. But let me, let me. What is your drink of the day now that I announced it, man?
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B
It's a homemade special recipe espresso martini by my wife.
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A
Okay.
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B
She's working right now, but I pulled her out of her office to make me an espresso martini for this show just. Just in time.
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A
That is hilarious. How did you arrive at that drink? I'm curious.
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B
I think I might have tried it. Oh, I tried it in Hollywood. Not to try and like stunt or anything, but I was in la. I was having meeting with, with another tech guy, you know, that we were, you know, taking my opportunity to like, just do all the meetings while in, while in la. So ended up in West Hollywood at this really dope spot. And, and I had like three that night and I've been hooked ever since. And then my wife and I, you know, traveled out to Italy for a couple talks that I was giving out there. And every stop we, we went to out there, we had like four or five different versions of espresso martinis while out there. So now there's versions to it. There's versions to it? Oh, yeah.
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A
What does that mean?
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B
Yeah, man, they, they, they're getting, you know, nice with it, so you could out the gate. Most spots Will ask you with or without Bailey's if you want it to be a creamy espresso martini or if you want it, you know, black with the contrast with the foam. The foam is the most important part.
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A
Okay.
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B
But now I've seen like, you know, crusted or topped with like toffee.
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A
Interesting.
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B
And I'm Puerto Rican, so if any Puerto Ricans listening, you know, our holiday drink is coquito. So I've had an espresso martini with coquito in it as well.
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A
What is that?
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B
Coquito. You know, I don't want to y' all to massacre it by just calling it Puerto Rican eggnog. But it's our holiday style drink where it's coconut, 150 rum, a whole, you know, a bunch of family recipe ingredients thrown in there. Cinnamon. And it's. It's how you get warm for the holidays. So I've had an espresso martini this holiday season where the wifey just threw in the coquito in the espresso martini.
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A
It sounds sexy, man. All right. Or you could just cuddle up with somebody you love or just drink yourself till you don't. Can't wait.
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B
While drinking the coquito.
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A
Yeah, Coquito. I like it. My wife had something. Oh man, I'm gonna butch. I can't remember the names to butcher it, but if I had remembered it, it's butcher. But it's a beautiful. She loves it. It's like a. But it's not a liquor drink. It's a. Some sort of coffee. But we get at this Argentinian place.
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B
Okay.
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A
Which is very Italian infused fueled. Right.
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B
Their.
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A
Their whole diet is obviously because. Because the history. But man, what is it? But they also had the best cannolis and dolce de leche at this joint. It's Upper west side. Damn. Camera the drink. I'll ask her. I'll ping her in a minute. But thank you for coming on, man. So. Okay. Okay. His name's LeBron.
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B
Alright.
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A
This is my corny ass joke. You know, you know my history. Everyone on this pod, you see me do this 180 sometimes. So first time I met LeBron. LeBron. We met through a dear friend, I think James. I was trying to remember where we remember. So James Barood, great guy. He's actually coming on next week, I think.
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B
Oh, nice.
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A
You actually came on before him. He's been on once before. I've been on his pod. But I think he's coming back on next week, I think just because he's. He's Big into this space too, but you're actually down there as a creator. But like, the funny thing is, when you and when you and I met for the first time, it might have been in person, might have been zoomed. And I've had you speak everywhere because you're just great. He goes, I said, I said, how do you say your name? Abroad? He goes, abroad without the L. All right, here's my corny ass mind. You know how it goes. I said, so I said, abroad without six. I said, LeBron without six L's is like Michael Jordan in the finals, biatches. I'm kidding. It wasn't a knock on LeBron, but on LeBron. But LeBron's a beast. LeBron. I even said it everywhere I go, LeBron's a beast. He's just. Ain't this guy behind me, you know, my picture got my. Jordan.
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B
Jordan. Jordan's number one. As much as I hated him as a Knicks fan, you know.
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A
Yeah, I get it.
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B
I'm getting past Jordan.
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A
Dude, Knicks look hot, man. Like third or fourth in the, you know, on the, in the East. What am I doing? I'm. I'm putting my NFL terminology. But on the east, dude, for them,
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B
for them, it doesn't matter where they're seated, as long as they get in and then they do their work once they get in the postseason.
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A
So this trade might have been. I didn't know if it was going to work because I thought you had hot chemistry last year. I mean, and then Randall wasn't playing for a lot of it, and then you trade home your way and looks like he's getting traded out of there now. That spot, it looks like. Yeah, it's the rumblings, man. So I, you know, I'm talking to some NBA cats and they're telling me some things, so I don't know, but, like, this seems to be working out for you. That was a heavy contract to take on.
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B
Get him back, you know what I mean?
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A
Oh, that's fair point. You think he would fit in the rotation?
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B
I mean, don't give away the key pieces that you got now that are working like magic, you know, I mean, have them as a six, man. He might not like that, but, you know, everything that's working right now is working. So if you want to be a part of it, jump back on, you know, I mean, we can give away a draft pick or a couple other pieces.
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A
I think the NBA needs the Knicks to be hot. MSG is the hottest. You're talking to Chicago guy right here.
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B
Right.
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A
So like, and I've been msg. I was at the United Center. We went, we went back for Christmas. We watched. My boys are less Bulls fans. They're more. They were playing the Bucks. They wanted to see Giannis and Lillard. Dame time, right. Both of them sat out that night. So I felt bad for the kids, right? But we got our statue with Jordan. But United center is great. I love it. It's home. It's just not msg. I'll even say that.
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B
But every sport, right? And this is a sports show, right? We can talk sports on here.
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A
So like all day.
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B
So every sport has their teams, their franchises. They're like. It just, it's just different when they're good, you know, And I, I'm primarily a college football fan and I'm a Canes fan. So it's the. You all day in this house. You know, I'm a season ticket holder. And every pundit will tell you on ESPN on down to Fox Sports that like college football is just different. When Miami is hot and USC is hot, right. It just changes the whole culture of the sport. More people pay attention. And the same with, with basketball. More people pay attention when the Bulls and the Knicks are running it. Bulls, Knicks and Lakers. If they're running it, then, then it changes the sport.
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A
Yeah. The man, the Bulls. And it hurts to see this man, as I love this because as a Bulls fan growing up, so that's, you know, and I always thought like, you know, the Ewings of the world, the Barclays of the world, they should have gotten a ring because those guys were that good, right? And, and then there's a lot of people that just couldn't get through Jordan at the time. And that's why. Yeah, and that's that, that's the thing I put out there. Sounds like I'm knocking on LeBron again. But there's a lot of people that should have gotten a ring during Jordan's time that didn't get it because of Jordan, right? A lot of people during LeBron's time that should have gotten a ring and they went right through his ass and
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B
got it, you know, but, but this same. But Steph, you know, I mean, like Steph is stopping a lot of people from getting there.
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A
Well, he's the one that stopped him and he got it right. Steph changed the game more than LeBron did. LeBron is a beast. You can't knock anything about that dude. Maybe mentally he's just not like Jordan, Kobe ish. And he's got a Freakishly badass big body. He's. But he doesn't have that, like that gut wrenching, I'm going to assassinate your ass.
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B
So LeBron and I don't know how people are going to feel about this take, but like LeBron is like, like Kareem and like Wilt Chamberlain. Like, those guys were like, they didn't necessarily change the game. They were just physical specimens that you can't stop them because of how they're uniquely built. But as soon as they leave, it's back to all the normal body types. You know what I mean?
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A
Sure, sure, sure, sure.
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B
Where Steph changed, like with his small stature.
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A
Yeah.
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B
He changed how other people with his body type and physical abilities play the game. And now everyone is changing how they play the game by like shooting from
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A
the logo, you know, so might come into, like now a big man might come in who can shoot, might come in and change it up, say, hey, look, let me get these easy points in the paint until they start changing the game. Because now that zone defense is difficult if you to play against that. Right. So I'm, I'm curious to see how it plays. It's going to continue to evolve. Right. But I, like, this is where it's at right now. It's all about points.
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B
You know, I think if anything, LeBron changed, like, we need a big man at the one, which is like just weird. You know what I mean?
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A
That's fair, that's fair. Big ass dude to play that role. Yeah, I get it. Yeah. And. And he's done well in it. And dude, all credit to him. Last year, I think, was it in the playoffs, wasn't the finals, clearly, but in the playoffs, wasn't he. He was shooting threes, he was playing great D. I had never seen that from him. Like the year prior. He wasn't doing any. He's never really been a great defensive guy. Right. And I'm not knocking on him. That's not his thing. He's focused on offense and he plays like the two or three on the other side where Jordan Kobe will take the ones out on defense too and be the one on offense. Right. That's why that I just. They catapult them into like a different sphere, but he was. LeBron was hitting threes from everywhere.
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B
I know.
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A
In the playoffs.
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B
But you know what I appreciate though, from LeBron and me and a couple fellas were just talking about this. The, that like passing now is just amazing. Like, I couldn't stand that like mid-2000s, like 2010 era, like to be honest, the mellow era of just like ISO ball fair, just like give it to the one score on the team. Everyone just like sit down on the floor and just like get out the way and see if they score or not. You know what I mean? Like it was no passing in that era.
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A
So that's where it's gotten pretty intricate and that, that opens up because there's less hand checking, there's more open zoning defense. So you got more space a little bit and then you create more space with this great passing. I completely agree with you. And you can see all those guys who play focused on ISO didn't really win chips for the most part. Right. So it's great. I love it.
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B
All right.
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A
We're here for a reason. We got to let the world. You're doing some amazing things, man. So I've had Braun speak everywhere, man. He's so I'll be honest. You're the first people that turned me on to one of the first people that turned me on to OpenAI. Right. Because you, you. He is an ambassador. He's been for several. Seven, eight years something like that now
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B
for since well they started the the 60s. They restarted the release of GPT in 20. Well let me correct. ChatGPT came out two years ago. We just passed the two year anniversary in November of 22. I was using it at least two, three years before that. So but I was on even pre chatbots I was screaming it to the world right from the, from the mountaintop. So I was dying on that hill. Like guys, you got to get ready. This is coming. So a lot of people heard me talk about ChatGPT in like 2021, 22. Yeah. Had no idea what I was talking about. And then now look at where we are now.
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A
Let me tell you this. So like no one knew about it. 2022 November is when it hit the world as you just said, right? Yeah. 2022, October. You pitched. I used to hold these hosties baller ass startup showcases. You got. I'm going to go into how you got kind of your. Your group that year got. Because it was the first one after the pandemic. Kind of is the first one that was in live in person after the pandemic. And we had it later in the day after lunch. So everyone bounced. But ours was always rated the previous six years, hundreds of people. We would fill that stadium like 3, 400 people and then stadium the room and it's all these executives and decision makers and investors that I would have and it was all because of. We'd have baller and judges. Right. We had Monty Toomer, super bowl champ. Had a bunch of executives, you know, big time radio hosts, big time investors from private equity groups and all that. So we had some superstars on the stage as judges. Your year was the first year where we had. It was right after that people, I guess people weren't attending conferences that first five, six months back. Ish. And they bounced. Right.
- [12:06]
B
I was out there though. I went to CES that year too. It was. It was quiet. It was amazing because it was so quiet.
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A
Exactly. She probably got better relationships. So Abron, he's like, you put on this thing and it fascinated everybody. We had some good companies presenting that day, but you won it and there. And nothing against the other ones. You just had something that was game changer and now we know why. So he had Spider man reacting to any live question you put in. I'm just going to leave it there. And so this. You could ask it any question and then. And then Spider man would respond to it. And then a month later we understood how and why. But we are baffled by it. Right then you opened up to me and then I actually hired an intern who taught me more than I've ever taught any intern in my life. Most interns, when you bring them on, it's a lot of work for the employer. Right. This is the first time I got like a. And I love doing it because it helps these young, young cats. People help me along the way and they're still helping me, so. But this guy last year really got me well groomed. I'm creating case studies, dick decks, all kinds of shit through CHAT GPT. And I focus on chatgpt more than I know. Gemini is coming up again and people are loving that as well some of the other platforms. But I'm here, so I love it, man. But you've. You've been ingrained with them for a long time. Create Labs. Create Innovation Labs. Or you're gonna get into it?
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B
Yeah, yeah. It's just Create Labs.
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A
Create Labs is your baby. You came and spoke about you. So when we first met several years ago, you were talking about doing a lot in sports. I mean this, every. This industry. Agnostic. Technically. You could go any way you want. So you're doing Claire AI Ri. So Clara. But you spell it CL A I dot R dot A. I'm just jack that whole thing up. They expect that from me. But. So it's this beautiful woman and can I call. Is it an avatar? Is that what you Kind of call it.
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B
Yeah. Digital human or AI influencer. Avatar people, just in different ways.
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A
Not like the Megan Fox movie, but not live yet, because that would be fine. That. Damn. But CES, they had some kind of examples of that happening.
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B
Well, three, she technically is 3D. Like, she can't turn around. She can move around in different environments, but she's not a robot, if that's what you mean. Yes. Physical. Yeah, thanks.
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A
Thanks for clarifying that. So, like, and we're getting there. And you. And I'm going to have you bring up, did you go to cs, CS this year?
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B
I didn't. I didn't have a need to, to be honest.
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A
Okay, gotcha.
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B
But, you know, I paid attention to the, to the new announcements and the things that got unveiled there, but it was stuff that I knew that was already coming out. Fair point. You know, it's a little different for me because I'm plugged in, you know, I mean, I'm a little locked in than most folks, but.
- [14:28]
A
Dude, clean up, man. Sure, why don't you clean up? I threw like a bunch of things at the, at the fans and the fans, the, you know, the consumers of this pod. And we have some brilliant people here. Clean up all the gaps that I left out there. Like what you. What you're doing with Create Labs. And man, we want to know next year, 2, 5, 10, what you. How are you going to impact this space?
- [14:46]
B
Sure. I mean, well, if we go back to that event, you know, we can dive into like the history and everything, but if we just go back to that event where we, where I was able to present and pitch. So what I developed specifically for that event was Miles Morales, which. And he was rocking those kicks right behind you too, the Jordans. And I wanted to show everyone what was capable with an AI powered Miles Morales for whether it's a video game or just the amusement experience, you know, at Disney World or like the Marvel experience for in person or just fan engagement in general with your favorite characters. But AI powered, meaning, like you can have a conversation with your favorite characters. So that's why Showdown stays there. And Jensen Wang from Nvidia just had a similar demonstration of that type of technology, like last week. Right. So we're talking three years ago, I'm showing that on your stage, and now the industry is catching up with those kind of capabilities, you know, from a gaming perspective.
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A
And, and then you've taken it so far. And, you know, the reason I wanted you on stage, because it was such a game changer when I saw Your demo. We spoke several times before that. I saw your demo, like, oh my God, he's going to knock it out of the park. And the reason I wanted you there is because, man, they have Spike Lee at that event before. A year prior, two years prior, they had Michael Bivens. When they did the BET series on New Edition, he came to promote it. Our showcase, our startup showcase was always rated as high or higher than those. And I would rather see them than me, I'll be honest, because I love those two dudes. But we rated. That's why you deserve that stage. That's why when, when it was the first one after the pandemic, we didn't have the audience that we usually had. I wanted to find other opportunities for you because you deserve that from me. So we have, we found some more opportunities for you. So, man, you've been crushing it in this space. So how has it evolved? So you got clear that of the things that we discussed back in the day, which ones are you kind. Are you doing the whole sports thing? Let's work with like a Michael Strahan type and have him be in Dubai and New York City and several other cities at the same time. Hologram at Ask.
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B
So we actually are. We. We went city government first, actually, you know, because, you know, in this space. And this is what happens just in general when you are so cutting edge. And I don't claim to be a futurist, but everyone calls me a futurist because my predictions are accurate, you know, or we build the things that we say are going to come in the future. We're like, well, it's not prediction, we're actually building it already. So the things that I demonstrated, there were actually real life things that we were building. And we get a lot of interest across different industries, entertainment, education. We do demos for everyone to show them what's possible. One of the first that really took the chance to execute this for live production was city government. So we're building and we have built an avatar of a mayor in Portugal who wanted to create a digital representation of himself so that all the constituents of that city can have access to him and the information of that city. And think about what that means of like, you know, how often do you get access to your mayor, right? Maybe town halls or maybe some social media questions that you submit or emails to like your local council member. But like, no, like we train a complete model on, on the city services, his data, tourism. And now everyone with just a click of a link can interact with his avatar. And ask any questions native to their language in Portuguese. And it's him 100% in every way. So, you know, our digital human work has not stopped. We're doing a lot of interesting stuff there because we do believe it's the future and it will be. Soon every one of us is going to have a digital human that we either work with or is a representation of us that we send out into the world on our behalf. And then beside from that, you know, the, the brain architecture of how we build those digital humans show up in a lot of our work. So whether it's a chatbot. So one of our biggest clients right now is MasterCard. We built their small business, we built their AI product, their first AI product that is a small business mentor chatbot. So the small business AI product for MasterCard is to be simply that, to just be a mentor and a coach to guide you through the whole process of starting your small business. And it's trained on small business Expertise along with MasterCard products and their partners. And it's been a great project and we have projects all over the world. Like before this, I was just on the phone with Qatar and the Middle east region, the Gulf coast region, to bring more of this technology out there. I just got back from there on Monday. I was doing a whole bunch of talks out in Qatar as well.
- [19:17]
A
Yeah. So I remember I spoke at a university, Northwestern, has a sister college there and my buddy used to be a professor there. So I came in, but I did, I have to do, I had to do it through zoom because it was pandemic time and I couldn't fly me out, I'd be hot. So give me, give us a case study. So let's go back to the one, the mayor of Portugal. Some city in Portugal. Which city?
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B
Yes. Braga. Yeah. Okay. B R A G. A beautiful country by the way.
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A
I just went last year, so only Lisbon and then we hit up Spain for the rest of it, but it was so dead, you could put a face to it. It's the mayor of that city. So then you can feed a lot of content into him and then basically they can ask and query all the things they want from him, his background, and he can answer that. So that's a case, that's a use case that you've seen and it's probably going bananas out there.
- [19:59]
B
Yeah. And the. So you'll get a conversational answer, but you'll also get a pop up window with more like informational text to follow up, you know, because you don't Want. What you get from like a chatgpt is, excuse me, a lot of data that you don't really need in a conversation, right? You'll get bullets, you'll get like a list of things. And that's part of the experience of ChatGPT that we don't like, is that we don't want to just read a list of things. So the conversation is more organic, it's natural, as if you were talking to him in real life. And then, yeah, there is like a pop up window that gives you that additional information that you can click through for tourism or for additional resources. But the capability of these things is just untapped. Like we could build in, we'll get to it. We can build an agent capabilities into our digital humans. And we were like, what's agents? Is like agents. Now is the next evolution, The V, the 2.0 of chatbots of like, they can now perform tasks on your behalf independently. Like you can assign them things to do autonomously without you, you know, asking them, you know, or interacting with them.
- [21:07]
A
I want to do a whole section, we'll double click on that in a moment. I want to do a whole section on that because I think that's phenomenal. So you want to roll these. The best ways to roll out kind of new T tech is kind of high population density, areas of varied economic backgrounds. You know, with a consumption mindset, they probably want to try new things. So mostly urban centers. Depending on what product category, it could be rural as well. Clearly, if you want to do something farming or something like that, right? Or something with people have no teeth, I'm playing. That was bad. I do that. But no. So like, so this city that you rolled out in Portugal is pretty highly dense, densely populated.
- [21:40]
B
Yeah, it's a densely populated area, but it's led. So Mayor Rio, you have to understand like different mayors take different approaches when it comes to cutting edge innovation. Some kind of wait to see someone else do it first. Other ones want to be at the front lines doing it. And when you're a mayor in a term, it's more of a risk to do it at the beginning of your term, right? To be so risky with new ideas and innovation, you kind of want to just like right the ship, you want to get things going, you want to address the most pressing needs by your community. But then when, if you're later in your term and you're kind of like in the twilight of your term as an elected official, you start thinking about what's called legacy projects, right? Like how Can I leave a lasting impact past my term to leave a mark here that's going to outlive my term and my time here? And Mayor Rio, who's the head of now, has been appointed the president of the global Parliament of Mayors. So look, all of the mayors from around the world, wow. Now he's the leader of that organization. So for him to demonstrate this, like, look, I'm doing this as my legacy project. I'm going to leave a lasting mark with my avatar and then all you other cities and countries can do the same. It's big for us from a, from a business development standpoint because just like he's laying down the groundwork and showing everyone what's possible and that collection lead to so many other countries taking on and doing the same thing.
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A
So let's go there for a second, man, because. Okay, because this is going to come up. I had no idea there was a mayor. An organization from all the mayors to communicate. Is it like, is there a central portal where they can communicate? There's obviously, yep.
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B
Gpm, Global Parliament of Mayors.
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A
So that's hot. So then I was, okay, let's get back to this broader question. If we're looking at high level, you want to know, hey, the tam of this market, then you want to get down to your som eventually your service obtainable market market. Now you just exponentially increase that. I was thinking, oh, you had a case by case. You got it. Look, you got to do it with the mayor for Portugal, educate him and or her on how to use it. Then you take it to the next lady or male mayor of any other town. But now you can plug in here, Boom, use case. Let's say 10% of the global mayors adopted take 2%. That's hot. That's huge. That's massive. Okay. Are you one of the first groups into this?
- [23:56]
B
Absolutely. And we have been from the get and the way that we also specialize because so you know, your audience who's listening via audio, they might not be able to tell. But you know, we are a black and brown founded company. You know, I'm 100%, you know, Boricua Nyorican from New York City and we were social impact specialists and like diversity and DEI specialists prior to even our work within AI. So people also come to us to suspect, to definitely address bias in AI. Right. They're like, if I try and do this on my own, then bias might show up in the AI. They don't know how to control for the outputs. And so when different countries come to us, it's because they know that we are experts in making it culturally representative, culturally authentic and accurate to their region to represent them, because they don't feel represented in the Geminis and the ChatGpts and the Clauds of the world. So they need to come to us to do something custom, whether it's a digital human or just a chatbot, to just represent them in the right way through AI.
- [25:07]
A
And let's, let's go back. So that's a very customized solution, obviously, for that particular mayor. Do you want to jump back to Claire Day Clarity AI to do this, or do you want to go here? So you tell me, what are your internal metrics? Because you want to say, hey, how we know that we're succeeding at what we're setting out to do. You get a month, one month, six month, one year check in, two year check in with our. So see what metrics A. There's going to be some scalability as far as revenues coming in and operational costs and operational behavior and strategic motives that you got going on. How are you measuring those things internally? Because that's what I think a lot. Because in these innovative spaces, you got to peg your own kind of metrics. How are you doing that?
- [25:44]
B
Sure. I mean, for us, it's, you know, partly, if we're talking business, partly it's. It's the margins. Right. Like, is this, you know, when we take on a big client, like a MasterCard, right? Like, is the time and the demand for the amount of work that we're doing for them making sense? Right. For, like, how much they demand of us, are we losing other clients because we're giving so much of our time to MasterCard, but you know, when and every. They're all doing. All the big ones are doing it. So like, AI companies right now, like for instance, Runway ML, who are the leaders in, like, creative AI so AI generated video, AI generated images using AI for film. They partnered with Lionsgate very much in a way that we partnered with MasterCard. Right. Like, you're always going to get a big enterprise that wants to be the first to take on your technology for their industry. And you got to say, all right, does that make sense for us to, like, give them the amount of time and attention that they need? Does it make sense for our margins? What's going to be the impact? What's going to even be, like, the brand impact of that partnership? And to be honest, yeah, like, that deal with MasterCard has opened up other doors for us regardless of what the financial numbers are just saying that we have MasterCard as a client has opened up more opportunities for us. And even the same with Mayor Rio saying that we've actually contracted because people know how hard it is to get a contract with the city government. So knowing that we landed an AI contract regardless of what we're doing with the AI, with the city government, and, and we understand how to do that process in other cities. We understand how to work through government pipelines as a vendor and as a technology partner. So that's all worked out. But yeah, I mean, a lot of what we talk about when, when it's a big partner, you have to do a lot of custom work. We can't do that for everyone. When we release like a B2C product. Sure. So when we release B2C products that do the same thing for the general public, then we can get to look at like usage metrics and how do we price that to everyone and scale it out and make it make sense for us. But these other projects, when we partner with big partners and enterprise or cities, it's more about just showing like, hey, look what we can do. We're the first to do it in this region, we're the first to do it in this country, we're the first to do it in this industry. The rest is downhill. The rest, you know, the dominoes will fall away where they may after that.
- [28:05]
A
It's so there's pros and cons to you being in this space. A, every industry knows that they need this. B, they don't know what they need. Right. So they don't know what they, what the capabilities are. So you have to go in and educate and then you have to inform and then it's hand holding throughout the entire process. As a developer, back in my day, it's difficult. Right, I get it. Because you have to tell them, hey, this is what you need. This is how you can do it. This is what you, you know, this is what you can do. This is how we're gonna do it. They're like, okay, but you gotta keep edging. And then they'll ask you those things that you can't do yet. Right. But maybe it'll be available now. These things are available within two weeks, months, you know, so yeah, go, go for it.
- [28:44]
B
You're about to get. So, so the good, the good part for us in strategically, you do waste. Now, I don't want to say waste a lot of time. You do spend a lot of time doing that, the education part. But we don't do outbound So I don't go out and do all these cold calls to try and educate a bunch of folks to try and convince them that they need AI, Right? I'm a. I'm a, you know, I'm a keynote speaker that's represented by, you know, global agencies to go and travel the world to give these talks, and the business comes to us. So, like, they'll see me on stage, they'll see me demonstrate something like a Miles Morales or a Mayor Rio, and then they'll catch me on stage and be like, you know, we want that now. Like, now that we've seen you show it on stage, you know, now convince us. Not even convince us, but, like, show us how we can leverage this for our company. So my inbox, my LinkedIn, my inbox. And, you know, the attention that I get off stage is all from people coming to us rather than us trying to waste our time barking up a tree and convincing someone that doesn't even care about AI and moving in that direction. So we have no marketing spend whatsoever. I get paid to go travel, to go on these stages, and we get tons of business coming off the stage. So it's been a great model for us in that respect. But we have a lot of agency partners out there in the world that represent big clients, that when the conversation comes up around AI, my name comes up. Or Create Labs comes up and says, hey, we have a partner that can execute on that and we'll set it up.
- [30:14]
A
I've said to you, like, people ask me, hey, who's. Who can I get as an authority to speak on the subject? I always forward your information to them. So, yeah, it's easy. Just easy, easy lift for me. What are. Who are some of these brands? So, like, MasterCard. Okay, cool. They're in. What are some brands that we'd be surprised by that are in this space doing something really beyond what you would be thinking of, like, something incredibly innovative.
- [30:36]
B
So I'll give you one. So an agency came to us on a Rocket Mortgage pitch that I was like, okay, what. What we talking about? They're like, oh, can you make us an avatar? A Latina avatar for Rocket Mortgage? Because they've seen Clara. So now let me step back a little bit and kind of, like, talk on Clara. So Clara, you know, I'm a Marvel geek. I'm a, you know, Star wars geek. Tony Stark has his Jarvis, you know, Luke Skywalker has, you know, C3PO and up to D2. So I needed my bot, right? I needed my AI. And in the Hood, they call me Body Starks, you know, Boriqua, you know, Starks. So I needed my own bot. So I made a Create Labs AI Rendered assistant. So that's the acronym for Clara. And she's an Afro Latina AI, you know, that is, you know, she works at Create Labs just like everybody else, but she's a digital human. She's, you know, a bot. And so they've seen her on stage, they've seen what's possible. And, you know, I think what Rocky Mortgage wanted, what I learned is that the. The Latina market of. Of Hispanic women is one of the fastest growing markets of home buyers and homeownership.
- [31:44]
A
Okay.
- [31:45]
B
So they wanted an avatar that spoke to that population.
- [31:48]
A
Interesting.
- [31:49]
B
And then in addition to that one, which was going to serve as their, like, marketing ambassador, Raquel, they called her for Rocket. So I was like, okay, I see that. So I made that for them. Yeah, so I made that. I made that avatar for them. And then on top of that, they were like, for every listing, like, home listing, they wanted like a QR code on each listing that would pull up an avatar twin of each of their mortgage brokers and each of their. Their real estate brokers. So they wanted this to scale. They wanted, you know, if they have thousands of people as real estate agents selling their homes, they wanted an avatar for each to that people can interact with to learn about that property that can take them to through virtual tours. I could tell them all the specs about the house and everything. Any conversation that you would have in real life with that agent. Now you can have 247 without having to physically bother or text, you know, a real estate agent off hours. You know, if. If you. Let's say you were driving home and you drive by a house with a listing, you just talk to the avatar, you know, that whole time and close that deal. Amazing.
- [32:51]
A
So you can close the deal and everything.
- [32:53]
B
Close the deal completely. So, like, there's. There's so many opportunities, untapped ways to leverage these, you know, these agents, avatars, you know, in a way that we haven't even really thought about.
- [33:03]
A
And I'm gonna just be, you know, just be me for a second. So you created it. I remember seeing the demo. And she's beautiful to the scent, and she can relate to many different demos. Demographics. Right. And. And so it's. People say, oh, that she could be representative of us. Now, your wife didn't say, at some point, can't you just get an Anthony Hopkins looking, you know, like, avatar? You got to get this beautiful woman I was playing.
- [33:23]
B
She auditioned. She. I mean, she was the first I tried. I was like, do you want me to make it a view? And she was like, no thanks. She auditioned to be the voice and she was like, yeah, this is weird. So she was like, go, okay, go. Do you.
- [33:33]
A
I love it, I love it. And then. So like this is the. So from the venture perspective, investing the space you met, you know, a term that you wanted to pull back from. I'm going to use that term from the investment side, there will be a lot of waste. We're chasing this market that is ever evolving. We don't know how to peg that TAM or the total addressable market to the sense that it's changing. Like it's just changing that whole 30 seconds I said that statement, right? So there's so many different use cases that are just coming to fruition because the technology is moving so incredibly fast, right. Usually the idea is there, then the tech catches up. It's happening pretty efficiently right now. So from an investor's habit, we're chasing these things. And then it could be kind of like even a hyper hype cycle of what sun, you know, sunroofs and all that used to be sunroofs, solar power panels. Because that technology would change every two years essentially and get experimentally better. So you would invest and then two years later, not obsolete, but just a very inefficient factor. So this is on hyperspeed of that.
- [34:34]
B
So here's what I want to say to like, I guess your investor audience that's, that's listening and you know, this happens to us when, when we talk to investors. The traditional mindset as an investor is like, what? All right, with everything that you're doing, like what's, what's the products like? You know, and people will tell me like, you know, just pick one, pick one and I'll invest in like the product.
- [34:54]
A
You can't.
- [34:55]
B
When you're an AI company like myself or like an anthropic or like an open AI, like we're building so many different things for so many different use cases. Like you can. Sure, if you want to invest into our avatar products, go right ahead or you want to just go along for the ride, for the company as a whole. Because we're going to be tapping into so many different things and we do have to stay nimble because we are competing with, you know, the Googles and the OpenAI's of the world. We're like, they could come out with a product that's in the similar name as one of our products. And then, okay, we make the hard decision of like, cool, we'll dissolve our R and D on, in our product design on that particular product. Because Google's got that. Let's move on to the other things that we're working on.
- [35:37]
A
Okay.
- [35:38]
B
If you put all your eggs in one basket, you don't know when OpenAI's next announcement is going to be to just kill that startup.
- [35:45]
A
You know, you might know because you're an ambassador. You might. But I'm paying attention.
- [35:48]
B
Yes, exactly. So as an investor, if you invested into just like one particular lane, right. Let's say a health care AI chatbot that all doctors, you would sell to all doctors with this health care chatbot on like how to diagnose. And you're like, yeah, this sounds like a great space. You invest in it. A week later, I'm not even kidding, a week later Google could say, hey, we have Google AI health. Well, boom, there goes your investment. The whole startup needs to dissolve now because they picked one super specific niche vertical that Google just killed. You know, instead of going back to the team, like, well, I invested in the team. So now you guys just pivot to a different vertical, pivot to a different product.
- [36:28]
A
Yeah.
- [36:28]
B
You know what I mean? And my investment safe because it wasn't into the product, it was in the team.
- [36:32]
A
Right, right. And that's why from an investor standpoint. So outside of that, because you have a, you have a very unique situation where you can invest in, in the portfolio. In sections of the portfolio.
- [36:40]
B
Yes.
- [36:41]
A
Generally that's not the case. Right. So a lot of people, unless you're Andreessen Horowitz or some of the big shops, it's very difficult for the smaller shops, you know, sub 100 mil type to invest in this space and know what not. It's not difficult, but, but you have to just be very, you know, you have to understand the climate very, very well. And even that's a fraction what you're gonna know a month out, two months out. Right. Cause it changes so quickly. I'm fascinated by the space. And you're, you're one of the first, again, like first five people that probably brought this space to my attention. And I've been going in deep dive. And then I really got into it last year. I'm like, okay, this is going nuts. Who so of the big behemoths, these big tech companies? I know you might have to have lineage towards a certain, a certain side, but who's doing the Most incredible work that we should be looking out for.
- [37:26]
B
I mean, all the big ones and there's some other ones that maybe aren't like household names yet that, that are doing interesting work. But I would definitely say, you know, OpenAI Anthropic Google Perplexity. Okay. Perplexity is really coming for Google's lunch. Perplexity is going to, they're going to keep raising to really scrape away from like the whole idea of like Google searching stuff is going to be a market that's going to be split between Google and Perplexity. I think they're really going to hone in on like Internet research and being the alternative to Googling with perplexity.
- [38:01]
A
And it's deep dive. Right. Is that what they're going to stamp is.
- [38:05]
B
Well, think so. Google's main business model still to this day is selling ads against search results. Right. In pages and pages of search results. Just means more real estate for them to sell. Right. So what happens when like your search result is one result, you know what I mean? Like, it's not the same. And that's the thing. Perplexity is we're going to do the searching for you, we're going to read the links for you, and then we're going to write summaries against what we've surfaced in your search and then citate, you know, write citations to let you know what answer came from what link and then continue to support, support you as like your research assistant. And especially now with like agents, it's gonna, you can set that to just continue to research those topics for you. Google came out then with like deep research because then now like Google's competing with what Perplexity is doing from an innovation side.
- [38:54]
A
Right.
- [38:55]
B
And they're like, all right, well, someone else beat us to the punch on like an innovative feature around search, web search. And then now we have to come out with our, our alternative on that as well. And then. So everyone's kind of copying each other.
- [39:08]
A
Yeah.
- [39:09]
B
To just follow what the, what the
- [39:11]
A
people want, which is how the game works. Right. That's always the case. Right. You know, it's a mimicking industry, essentially. So, okay, so Google and you, you agree or refute with the. I want to get a good sense as to how you feel about this so you understand the space better than I. So Google was one of the, they should have been running with this thing, right. Because they kind of put this whole stuff in the map. They hired. Was it DeepMind? They acquired them back in the day. Right. So they had this all in house. They didn't act upon it. Microsoft jumped the gun, got behind OpenAI and really crush it because they had to catch up. So they had to spend. That was a phenomenal investment. That and probably Elon Musk into Trump is probably one of the best returns in the last Right. Couple years. And I'm not saying a political stance. I'm just saying, hey, you put 150 million to some dude and all of a sudden you got 150bill more to your, your name. That's, that's a pretty good investment, right? Yeah, that's venture like retail returns at the billion dollar clip. But what was what I, I always had this theory. Maybe Google is trying to be responsible and not put it out or they didn't want to, you know, their cash cow is search as you just, you know, mentioned. They didn't want to eat that own lunch or. But these companies are smart enough to know that they got to play with what's coming and, and have a defensive moat of sorts. But search, they thought maybe, maybe they thought they had another 15 years. 10. 10 years, let's call it, it's been truncated probably a couple of years now. Right. Because of Peruxley's offering and other groups are coming. What do you think the main reason it was like Google didn't jump in was it they wanted to be safe because this thing can quickly get out of hand like Terminator esque. That's probably 10 years away, potentially.
- [40:39]
B
No, I mean Google was always doing AI research. I think what changed was OpenAI was the first to introduce AI as a product. As a, as a consumer product. Exactly. AI was the first to release A, B2C. And their method of how they released it too was like, this isn't a complete product like something so sophisticated as AI. And they're like, hey, it's not perfect. It's not even finished being built, but we're going to release it to the public anyway and see how you guys respond and give us some feedback. And that was not a concept people were used to in tech. It was always such an exclusive, closed in gated technology. And when it comes to AI, that was like back, back room research that was being done. They're like, yes, we have AI, but you're not going to even see it on the front end. That's like on the back end of how we process our search algorithms. So AI OpenAI releases ChatGPT and then it opened up like, oh wow. Like no one was allocating product design resources, product development resources for facing the consumer around AI. And then Google called back all of their AI folks, their product folks around AI said, hey, we need to prioritize this now. So no one prioritized it until 23. And then come 23 is when the AI product market from a consumer standpoint just blew up and everyone was coming out with their own version. But I remember pre, you know, in the early days when it was just us messing around with AI, I learned that the intelligence community, the economy of intelligence and academics and scientists was not in the AI space yet. They were doing other stuff. And then once all of the attention came to AI, now you have the world's greatest minds all jumping into AI. And then that increases the pace of innovation in this space. Because now everyone is in the space. Before it was a bunch of nerds and geeks like us just messing around trying the first levels of prompt engineering. And it was our initial prompt engineering techniques that like informed how to use this stuff that now everyone follows and best practices. Like my mentor Andrew Main was like the first prompt engineer in history. I could probably claim that I'm like the first like one of the handful of the first like prompt engineers in history and the first like of color, you know, in the space. And now everyone is following those best practices and building upon it. And now scientists are coming in with different prompt engineering approaches. And. And if people don't know what prompt engineering is, it's basically how you talk to the machine, right, and create the instructions for what it performs. And they're all text language based. It's not coding based. It's just how you communicate with the machine.
- [43:27]
A
You know, it's so funny. I'm gonna double click on what you just said. There's a guy, I think he's a Scottish guy, David Burst or something like that. He's on LinkedIn. He had this LinkedIn course before him. I get access to these LinkedIn learning courses I took him. He goes, chatgpt means chat. You're communicating with the, the AI to give it, to get to what you want. So tell it who it should be. This is initially, it may have changed now. Tell it who you want it to be, tell the tone what you want it to return. All of these things. You have to, you know, tee it up, you know, got to get that layup in there. So you get that dunk from the GPT to get the information you really need. I want to double. You brought up an incredibly important point. I look, which I love look. This is a product that is unfinished. It was released the world. But think, just see how productive it made, the consumption. All of us humans on planet, and it's not even anywhere. It's probably like not even a tenth, not, not even a percent of what it's going to be five, ten years from now because it's evolving so quickly. And just don't think how productive it is as a first iteration, which was complete bullshit compared to what it is now.
- [44:25]
B
But think of this model, right? So if people don't understand why this was so different and why I appreciated it as a minority in this space, right? All we ask for, we don't ask for money, we ask for access and we ask for a seat at the table. When you're an underserved community, when you are the underrepresented in a new space, we're like, yo, just give me access. Let me show you what I can do with this thing. Is this. The fact that you gatekeep so much and keep us out is the frustrating part. And nor do you take our feedback as consideration because we don't even have a seat at the table. OpenAI gave me all that. OpenAI was like, yo, we want you to have a seat at the table. We want your feedback and any ideas that you have directly impact the product engineers and the developers. And we take everything in consideration. Who does that? So now if you take that and apply that to like Tesla's robots, right? Like, Elon is, you know, and I say dk, you know, supposedly building robots, because it's not really him building robots. So his team is building robots. Tesla is building robots. Do they have a prototype of a robot or Boston Dynamics, even that? They're just going to like, pilot to the community and say, hey, we're going to ship out a thousand robots to anyone that wants one and then give us feedback on what else you think we should do with it and test it out and let us know how this works. They're not releasing robots in beta. They're not doing that with EVs and saying, hey, here, I'm going to give you a free ev, drive it around the neighborhood for six months and let me know what you think and give us some feedback and then we'll take that back and improve it. People don't do that with technology. So the most powerful technology in the world, AI, it was 75% done. And they said, here you go, here, go play with it. Let us know what you think and whatever feedback you give us, we're just gonna, you know, quickly update and get that going. It was, it was a revolutionary approach to technology.
- [46:23]
A
I love it, man. I want to peg into certain industries you and I have. We share love. We've actually been in the music industry before. So I had someone on here a couple weeks back, you know, one was threatened by Dr. Dre. I'm not Dr. Dre. Suge Knight from Death Row, like, got a call, said, hey, do this or else. And it was like, oh, we're on our way, type of Alex, he's actually coming to speak my class in a couple weeks, but. And then another guy, you know, we were talking about, hey, the AI is going to change it. Taylor Swift, let's go with the most ubiquitous name that everyone's going to know. Whoever's listening. Kendrick Lamar. People may not know in certain parts of the world, but Taylor Swift, you
- [46:59]
B
know, probably Taylor Swift and Drake. And right now, you know, Bad Bunny's having his moment. Yeah, yeah, I got a. I got to wave that flag.
- [47:05]
A
Yeah, absolutely. Go for that. And then so like, if you put that out there. So let's say they were saying there's going to be a version of music that, hey, it's going to be Taylor Swift originals. Then there's going to be AI generated of her in the likes of her. And then people are going to be monetizing that. So they're going to have to figure all these fee structures. I'm thinking from an investor standpoint. Okay. And that's very. That's the way I have to look at things. Right. How do you. How do you figure out how to monetize that space? Because it's, you know, because it's. It's going to be really tricky. And the blockchain is going to have to help solve some of that.
- [47:33]
B
Right.
- [47:33]
A
To track. Because it's. Tracking. It's gonna be incredibly difficult. But that gives. It gives the rise to a bunch of new artists, you know, whether it's a. Whether producers and DJs become creators as well. Like, that's what that's happened the last two decades, let's call it. But what do you see? How do you else. Do you see it impacting that particular space? Would love you.
- [47:52]
B
Oh, yeah, it's very. It's very clear to me. And I've had these conversations with record labels and I had this meeting with Sony and explained the same to them. And they. The head of innovation at Spotify. I'm like, one of y' all are going to sign a nine figure, ten figure deal, right? Hundreds of Millions of dollars, even like a billion dollar deal with Drake. Or Taylor Swift, for example. Yeah. To do a complete AI scan of their likeness, their voice, their. Their catalog, their discography. You're going to train a model on them for your platform and. And then you're going to offer to all of your subscribers your, Your. Your. Like, take Spotify, for instance, on your streaming platform, there's going to be. Generate your own Drake song feature on the platform.
- [48:33]
A
Right?
- [48:34]
B
And it's going to become normalized at that point. The idea of, like, deep fakes is only a deep fake because the contract hasn't been signed with that artist. It's a legal issue, not an AI issue. Right. So once Drake signs that contract, it's not a deep fake anymore. And then he's going to give his likeness and his permission to. To generate this music. And then we're just going to get used to being able to just generate and prompt our own Drake songs or on Taylor Swift songs. But the premium of his work that he puts out himself will go up. The premium of seeing him live will go up, and it's just going to make more money for him. We're like, now you can charge double for access to songs that he made. Now you could charge double for seeing him live and in person. Because you've commoditized, you've almost made a new. Almost like what H M and Old Navy and Target do for clothes, they call it. They actually call that disposable clothing, to be honest.
- [49:30]
A
Well, 30 of it ends up in a dump being burned.
- [49:32]
B
Exactly.
- [49:32]
A
To be honest with you.
- [49:34]
B
So it's like, you're gonna have that for music. So, like, I could just make my own songs of the artists that I want, because this generation is going to become the on demand generation. And my partners in AI made the same product already for television called Showrunner AI, where you can generate your own TV show.
- [49:50]
A
Okay?
- [49:51]
B
And think about that. Like, if I want to see a TV show, if I want to see more a whole Marvel universe of superheroes from the Bronx and a bunch of, like, black and Puerto Rican kids who are superheroes in New York City, what's my choice right now? I got to wait for Marvel to decide that that's a priority for them.
- [50:11]
A
Right?
- [50:11]
B
Or I could just go and generate it myself and make the whole show myself or make that movie myself. Or if there's a collab that I want to see, like Eminem and Wu Tang, I got to wait for these cats to, like, get their legal together and team up and actually do that and have social media demand it. Or I just Go make it. Just generate it myself. So, like, think of the opportunity for people to just make the things that they want to see rather than waiting passively, as a passive consumer for these folks to get their stuff together.
- [50:39]
A
I can't wait till a lot of this stuff and a lot of it is hitting the thing, so. Which I love. How far are we from, like, this Megan Fox type robot? I'm, you know, asking for a friend. Don't tell my wife. I'm just kidding. So, like, I know they're. They're releasing some of these at ces.
- [50:51]
B
Yes.
- [50:52]
A
And they're talking about it and they, they're cool. They got the vibe down. I don't know how they are in human practice. I've just seen YouTube's, but, like, how are they over, like a year long period? They go nuts on you.
- [51:01]
B
So I'm represented by the same agency that, that represents Sophia, the AI robot. So she's one of the first AI robots out there. And we've hit the stage together with Clara. We've had Clara speak to Sophia, have AI to AI conversation. So I think the uncanny valley, what they call it, of like, how realistic can you feel your experience is with a robot? We're still maybe five to ten years away from like, the physical, physical experience. I think with robots, they still look like, you know, they still look like wax figures where, like, the eye contact and the facial expression is where you lose the most. Okay. I think now the brain, the conversational element, because of ChatGPT and the APIs to Gen AI are like, I can program that right now. Like, if you give me the brain of one of these, like, sex dolls or just like companion dolls, I could program a. A personality that would not be any different from a human personality. Like today, right now, if I got one of those contracts. And they did have someone from the adult industry approach me after a talk at with CAA saying, hey, we work in this industry. Do you want to partner? I haven't taken it, but I've been approached.
- [52:13]
A
Well, they're the, I mean, it sounds, sounds ironic, but they're one of the most innovative industries. Tech Internet, releases of content. You know, that was them. They, they've spearheaded a lot of the industry moves. They'll probably do a lot because they're the freakiest. They think most innovative because they got the freakiest consumers. Right?
- [52:29]
B
Listen, to be honest, like, I have designers that have helped me with products. They're like the whole idea of like what we call now, like the Infinity scroll, right? Like, we have Like a bunch of thumbnails that you just keep scrolling and it just doesn't stop. You don't have to change pages. First time we've all seen that is really like the adult industry with like porn websites of like, they don't want you to leave, they don't want you to feel like you have to like change to another page. This is page one of like 100 pages. Like the whole idea of just keep scrolling, keep scrolling and it's just not going to stop with content. You know, that's a design approach that we've seen first, like the adult industry. But I think, yeah, the person, the combination between a chatgpt and a sex style, you will see first in the adult industry as they innovate and you'll likely see it first at ces. And the one that we saw this past year, I think was a good example. But again, as someone who represents, you know, different cultures, what they showed was not representative from a diversity standpoint. Right. Like the hair, the hair textures. Like we worked really hard on even Clara's hair texture and like the different types of personalities, the skin tones. Again, the first thing you see at the CS unveilings is like a blonde, blue eyed, you know, Barbie doll, like Esque Bot. And I think the variety to address different cultures. Before you get like the Megan Fox one, I guess. Still got to see that movie.
- [53:46]
A
It's cool.
- [53:47]
B
It's gonna get crazy.
- [53:48]
A
I want to bring up something. You're the best person asking. Obviously you get, you come from that industry. I'm not you. I'm saying that this, a lot of it will stem from that industry because they want to, they want to just every all eight senses. They want to, you know, touch their consumer and then issue and then it rolls out to, hey, the guy clean my dishes or take out the garbage or vacuum the floor, like, you know, or communicate with me, be my therapist, whatever it is that people are looking for. You're the best person to ask for this. When. Okay, right now we're manipulating AI to get what we want.
- [54:18]
B
Yes.
- [54:19]
A
When does it get to the point where it speaks this old language and A can come after us, B can mitigate us? See Terminator type shit. I know that. I don't want you to be in that space to scare you because this is your space, but how, how far are we from that? Where it can create its own language that humans don't understand. So we don't know what the hell is coming.
- [54:38]
B
It still relies on our instructions and we still have to Control what they call, like, the guardrails. And so when I write instructions and one of my team writes instructions for what cleric can do or one of these bots can do, the amount of instructions of what we tell it to do, the amount of instructions to tell it what not to do should be just as important. Important, right. So If I'm writing 10 pages of instructions, five of those pages should be telling it what I want it to do. The other five is like, don't do this, don't do that.
- [55:07]
A
30 on that. 30 pages on that.
- [55:09]
B
Right, exactly right. And then to keep it a hundred, like, we build additional bots that are just security and safety bots to check and quality control the safety of the first one to make sure that it follows instructions as like a supervisor to the first one.
- [55:26]
A
We know there's hacks, right. So like, someone could hack in. Yeah. Allow it to then.
- [55:30]
B
Hey.
- [55:31]
A
Override certain decisions.
- [55:33]
B
So that's an evolving list of like, it's called prompt injection. Of like, how do you jailbreak a chatbot? That list by researchers is constantly growing of like, here's a new approach to jailbreak it. And the list of how to address it needs to grow just as much to adapt and address those areas. So, yes, that's always going to be there. And that's why, like, the role of, you know, if you want to pursue a new career, like I just saw Forbes maybe say, like the fastest growing jobs at either AI developer, AI consultant. If you're like an AI safety specialist dog. That's a. That's a bag. There's no, there's no college degrees in it yet. So you got to go out there and let. Just go do it.
- [56:11]
A
Yeah.
- [56:11]
B
But that's definitely going to be a growing field as a safety specialist, because if the bot is programmed to say, hey, just adapt and evolve as you see fit, then it will do that. But if you tell it to follow these instructions and don't deviate from the instructions that I gave you, then you'll be fine. And making sure that you still are the human in the loop that can always pull the plug. But if you do program a thing and say, hey, I want to program you to just evolve as you see fit, regardless of my instructions is where you get to T2 type stuff.
- [56:47]
A
Give me. So, okay, I know we're gonna wrap soon here because we get what is the most extravagant use of this that you've seen right now? And what's in you? What are you dreaming of in your imagination 10 years from now? We're gonna have.
- [57:00]
B
So I pray for all the real life use cases that impact terminal diseases and terminal disabilities. And there's a lot of great work happening in that space. Space. My brother has one prosthetic eye and I'm paying very close attention to what's happening in Australia, I believe around the studies of restoring vision with AI to you know, the optical system and you know, whether it's paralysis like Elon, as crazy as he is, he is on, on, on the right track with the neural link with bcis.
- [57:39]
A
Yes.
- [57:39]
B
Because if you program those the right way and if they can address, you know, dementia, Parkinson's, paralysis even being enhanced by AI, that's, that's a game changer. That's, that's a complete game changer. And now with agents and having it autonomously work on these things. Right. You could program a cancer research agent that just works like how much time does a research team actually have to spend on this? Right. Like I'm sure 40 to 60, 60 hours a week off of like research grants.
- [58:12]
A
Right.
- [58:13]
B
Could you imagine a thing that's just 247 just like churning and calculating formulas and experimentation and simulations to, to solve for diseases. I mean, why wouldn't you?
- [58:24]
A
Yep. And then put it out there into market where people can access it and let's, you know, maybe we don't have to crazy monetize everything. Let's get it out, keep up a healthier to make it more productive. Then we don't have to worry about other stuff. Right? Oh, that's cool. I love it. So that's your dream thing. But then we're not, it doesn't seem. Well, we're probably far from a lot of these things, but some of these things seem very obtainable. Right.
- [58:45]
B
Because you know what's great is that a lot of this stuff is obtainable because a lot of this is open source. And because you're not, man, you're not just relying on four or five academics to research this in an Ivy League institution. The whole world has access to these tools. You're going to have like an 18, 18 year old in India, solve for cancer. You're gonna have like a 20 year old in like Kenya come up with this solution because they're just building in their house with open source technology.
- [59:12]
A
I love that. And that's so. That's phenomenal. I love it. Any parting thoughts? Man? We hit a lot. I know you gotta. I would love to keep going with you man, all day, but any party thoughts we should have on this?
- [59:22]
B
Good. I'm good. On time. Yeah, I would, I would just say for folks to pay attention to. I always tell everyone I have, like, parting words when I give my keynotes and I'll try and see if I can remember them. So one, like, don't let your fear get in the way of your future readiness. Right. The longer you stay on the sidelines because you're afraid of it, the more you're putting yourself behind the eight ball. Continue to adopt and adapt and don't make a decision on something that you haven't tried yet. A lot of you folks maybe listening to this are, like, in leadership positions that are either restricting your team's use of AI or deciding whether to purchase AI and like, you can't make a decision on something that you haven't researched. Or R and D yourself and let your team R and D. Don't leave that to just like, one guy in it. Like, have the whole organization try something out and come to a decision. And really your only way to really adapt to these spaces. You know, if you're worried about your job is just staying creative with these tools, yet your resume will. Will have that section where it's like, oh, I know Word and I know PowerPoint. That whole section is going to be replaced with like, I know these AI tools.
- [60:27]
A
Yeah.
- [60:27]
B
And how do you become more productive, you know, being fluent in these tools?
- [60:31]
A
What's. Okay, I lied. All right. Because you're like, the source of, you know, depth of knowledge here. So what's one thing. So if I'm going to give this, let's say I'm going to give this to some students as well. To listen to.
- [60:40]
B
Yes. Yep.
- [60:41]
A
What are some things in the academic space that they could really just ramp up their knowledge base, what they can. Can extract from an efficiency standpoint? Because I want them to get out there and party. So I want them to learn faster so they can get out there and party. In the last couple of semesters.
- [60:53]
B
Yeah. I mean, to be honest, I mean, this is a conversation between faculty and students where this is the calculator moment for text and language. So the same way that you use a calculator in math classes, just find the appropriate moments. Like, look, there are certain things that I want you to develop the muscle memory for, so I need you to do this by hand. So let's put the. Put away the ChatGPT and put away the calculators. But there are going to be certain problems that you're going to try and address, like climate change, like cancer research. They were like, use every AI in the book to help you come up with a solution to these bigger global problems. And don't restrict the tools that they use to address something that's bigger than a grade, you know, or an assignment in class. And forget about, you know, we. A lot of it is a paradigm shift. You have to get away from like, oh, I assigned a written report and it was written to ChatGPT. Well, forget about written reports. Just like have them retain the knowledge whatever way possible.
- [61:50]
A
I did that. I did that. I used to have a midterm or they used to write something. I noticed someone. She didn't have a. Or she or he. I'm not gonna tell who was didn't have the greatest grasp of English students. She was an international student. Damn. I said it again. He or she. But I could tell it was chatgpt. So like, oh, you know what? Next semester I'm gonna. So I didn't call her on it. I said, hey, let's just have a meeting. I see this and then. And then she made it up some other way. Now as far as answering some other questions around it so she to know that I just to demonstrate she could grasp materials. Now I mitigated that. I've gotten rid of that midterm report. We're doing a quiz in house and we test it another way where I know they have to have a knowledge base to answer the questions. And it's not that. So you just gotta work around it. But I want them, I have full on use chat. Use AI in classes.
- [62:32]
B
Let's walk you just checking if they retain the knowledge. Like look, do the report. Right? Even if they use ChatGPT to do the report.
- [62:37]
A
Yeah.
- [62:38]
B
Did you do the report? Great. Now put the report down. I'm going to interview you on your report to see how much you retained from that report.
- [62:45]
A
And these kids, these students are smart, man. So like I'm telling hey, you're going to do it. You're going to do a pitch to the, to the class at the end. That's your final. And all of you are going to do that. Create it in tattoo man. I'm using that as an example. Create. I tell them how to put information in. Extract what you want. And here's. Here's the market gap. Here's the what your problem is. So and I and all the answers right there. I'm teaching how to go slide by slide. Then you pop that into canva. Make it pretty. Whatever you want to do, whatever your source of choice, right. Your platform choice to make it pretty. Because you can't do all that in at least chatgpt. You can't make it a beautiful slide.
- [63:18]
B
You got listen. And I think the other way too. And I speak to K12 too, at the, at the lower level too, not just at the university level. We're like, there's one syllabus for all the students. There's one curriculum that the state gives in August for them to run all year for like a thousand students. That's an archaic way to approach this. Especially now with every student should have their own personalized curriculum right to their needs. Because so many students now are neurodivergent. And the same with the, with the syllabus. If you have 50 kids in your class, there should be 50 versions of that syllabus all run through and differentiated by ChatGPT for that particular student because of the best way that they learn into their learning styles or if they're neurodivergent, if they need accommodations because they have 504s and IEPs, then you are personalizing that learning curriculum in that syllabus that you planned just for that n of one. For that one student.
- [64:09]
A
I love, man, you're a rock star in this space, man. Any one last thing. All right, where can they go where there's a website that has all of these things listed so they could find. Hey, this one addresses this type of perplexity. You brought that up. Okay, this is great for a long term where it shares all the information. It's not linked, not straight out like link and Google's that you can. The counters. Can they. Where can they go measure all these things and see what's best for their solution.
- [64:30]
B
So I every. I tell everyone to just open up four tabs right now, at least four of like, you have ChatGPT open, you have Gemini open, you have Claude open, and you have Perplexity open.
- [64:41]
A
Okay.
- [64:41]
B
Anytime you have a question, you ask it across all four and then come to your assessment of like, how you feel the response. Response was how they were addressed in all four platforms. You don't just rely on one, because you'll find when you put it in Claude separate from chatgpt, Claude's gonna come out with a varying much drastically different answer. Because they're programmed to outdo each other because they're all competitors to each other. So all the. They're all going to give you a bit more value and you need to be the recipient from the consensus of all four, not just relying on one versus the other.
- [65:14]
A
There's no interface right now where you could go to one website and it hits up all four of those platforms and returns it.
- [65:20]
B
And you can see that there are some interesting ones out there. I don't know them off the top of my head. Pie maybe is one where there's a few out there that individual independent developers are creating, where there's just like a drop down where you can switch between the models as you ask your questions.
- [65:40]
A
Brother, man, you would like. There's like a. I could ask you 15,000 more questions because you're just like, you're stuck in this space, so we gotta run. We gotta do that. No, but you're great.
- [65:50]
B
I finished my drink, so that's all that matters, right?
- [65:52]
A
You. An espresso. What did you call it when you. I won't say what you said. I don't. I don't want to be on PC when you said you. Espresso martini. I'll be on PC, but I don't want you.
- [66:01]
B
No, no. Yeah. I'm just saying I'm not meeting the cliche, you know, demographic for this drink,
- [66:07]
A
but, you know, that's a great way to say it. Okay. No, but I appreciate you, man. Love your work. Love. I just love following your. Just what? Your work and just seeing what you're going to be. To keep. Continue to do. I want you to come. Maybe it's too small, but I would love for you to pop into class one day and just speak. We're in Columbus Circle. Is that something you do?
- [66:23]
B
Yeah. Let me know, man. I'm local.
- [66:24]
A
I got an event next week. Where's a bunch of NFL athletes, NBA athletes. Pop his family office and a bunch of athletes. Investors. If you want to pop in, say the word. Come on stage with me, man. It's Saturday, though. You ain't, you know, I don't know.
- [66:35]
B
We'll figure it out.
- [66:36]
A
Okay. I'll hit you up, man. Thank you, man. God bless you and great work, man. Phenomenal.
- [66:41]
B
All right, brother. Thank you so much.
- [66:57]
A
Sa.