MtoM #250: Emergency Physician Wipes Out $500,000 of Student Loans in 3 Years and Finance 101: Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF)

Summary

White Coat Investor Podcast: Milestones to Millionaire #250 Emergency Physician Wipes Out $500,000 of Student Loans in 3 Years & Finance 101: Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF)
Date: November 24, 2025
Host: Dr. Jim Dahle
Guests: Andrew (Emergency Physician) & Colleen (Physical Therapist)

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Episode Overview

This milestone episode celebrates the extraordinary achievement of Andrew, an emergency physician, who paid off over half a million dollars in student loans in just three years. Dr. Jim Dahle interviews Andrew and his partner Colleen, a physical therapist, to uncover their financial strategy, sacrifices, and the mindset behind their rapid debt repayment. The episode also delves into the mechanics and latest updates on Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF), offering a dual perspective through Colleen, who is on track for PSLF herself.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Meet Andrew & Colleen: Their Backgrounds & Debt Burden

• Andrew: Emergency physician, eight years out of training, based in Louisville, Kentucky.
• Colleen: Physical therapist, over three years out of training, also with student debt.
• Both first-generation postgraduates from lower-middle-class families.
• No financial help from family for undergraduate or graduate education.
• Andrew paid off $509,000 in student loans (undergrad + med school).
• Colleen still has $185,000 in student loans and is two years away from PSLF forgiveness.
  • [01:58] Andrew: “I paid off around $509,000 in student loans.”
  • [03:31] Andrew: On why he didn't pursue PSLF—“When I was graduating, there was such a small percentage of people successfully getting PSLF and it just seemed somewhat subjective. I guess I just wanted a very definitive plan.”

The Path to Paying Off $500,000 in 3 Years

Income & Repayment Strategy

• Combined household income: about $600,000/year—higher than average (Andrew worked above full-time hours as a new attending).
  • [04:52] Andrew: “Combined... it’s right around like 600 or so.”
• Aggressively attacked Andrew’s student loans post-residency after refinancing privately at half the federal rate, sending $15,000–$20,000/month to the lender.
  • [05:58] Andrew: “Basically, yes [sent lender $15,000+ a month].”
• Lived exclusively on Colleen's PT salary (modest), using Andrew’s salary almost entirely for loans and taxes.
  • [06:25] Colleen: “We basically just lived off of my salary essentially, and then his salary was pretty much loans and taxes.”
• Maintained their frugal “residency” lifestyle even after buying a house, except for the new mortgage.

Working More Than Full Time

• Andrew consistently worked 15–16 ten-hour emergency department shifts/month (more than standard full-time).
  • [08:15] Andrew: “Probably around 15 to 16 [shifts per month]… they’re around tens.”
• This higher workload explains the unusually high earnings and was more due to opportunity and energy, not a preset master plan.
  • [08:53] Andrew: “I felt like most of my peers around my age group were working that average, so I kind of didn’t really question it.”

Frugality, Focus & Sacrifice

• Major sacrifices: postponing lifestyle upgrades except for buying a modest home; sticking to their old spending habits from their training years.
• Still allowed themselves one or two vacations a year for sanity.
  • [15:42] Colleen: “Even through this saving and paying off loans, we’ve always set aside money to still… go on one or two vacations a year.”

Notable Quote

[07:06] Dr. Dahle: “So what you’re telling me is live like a resident works, that you can wipe out even half a million dollars in student loans in three years?”
[07:12] Andrew: “Absolutely.”

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Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF): Colleen’s Experience

• Colleen learned about PSLF after PT school (about 2017), was unsure of its reliability at that time due to widespread denials in the news.
  • [10:34] Colleen: “I felt like I was kind of gambling going into it, because I started it in 2017 and that's when the first group of people was applying for forgiveness. So it was still… scary.”
• Currently has two years left until forgiveness; expects to have her full $185,000 balance forgiven.
• Her career path would have been the same even without PSLF, but knowing about the program influenced her job search criteria.
  • [11:30] Colleen: “I’m still where, like, in the realm of PT, that I would have chosen regardless of PSLF… But when I was looking for jobs, it did change what I was looking for.”

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Balancing Debt Payoff & Investing

• Despite their aggressive debt payoff, continued to invest:
  • Maxed out 2 HSAs, 2 backdoor Roth IRAs, and both 403(b)s (at least to the employer match).
  • They have acquired about ($500,000) in net worth, including home equity and investments.
  • [13:38] Andrew: “Taking into account home equity, our 403(b) accounts, HSAs and Roths… I think it’s around 500, probably give or take with market changes.”

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Emotional Journey, Mindset, and Advice

• It was daunting to “bet on themselves” with high debt and no financial training from their families.
• Andrew immersed himself in learning financial literacy during his senior year of med school, even reading more finance than medicine at that point.
  • [14:31] Andrew: “I kind of stopped reading medical information like that last half of fourth year and just started reading financial information. So I was listening to a lot of your podcasts and I read your book at that time.”
• Proved skeptics wrong—called a doubting friend after loan repayment:
  • [15:09] Dr. Dahle, laughing: “You showed him. I hope he listens to this podcast.”
  • [15:12] Andrew: “Yeah, so a couple months ago I actually called him and I was like, hey man, I paid it off. And he’s like, no, you didn’t.”

Andrew’s Key Advice

[09:35] “If your student loan debt to potential gross income ratio is more than 2-to-1, you should really become financially literate and have a definitive plan. ...The debt amount was a huge nitis [focus] for becoming literate...and having a definitive student loan plan pay off.”

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Next Financial Goals & Work-Life Balance

• Immediate plans: Home renovations, more travel, and ultimately aiming for millionaire status and mortgage payoff in 5–10 years.
  • [16:21] Colleen: “Hitting millionaire status would be pretty amazing. I think just trying to get a good work-life balance and spend more time with family, do more vacations, things like that.”

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Segment Timestamps

• Introduction & Guest Background – [00:13] to [04:00]
• Deciding Loan Repayment Path vs. PSLF – [02:57] to [03:40]
• Income, Repayment, and Live Like a Resident – [04:48] to [08:24]
• Mindset, Sacrifice, and Peer Comparisons – [07:06] to [09:09]
• Advice to Others – [09:35] to [10:31]
• Colleen’s PSLF Journey – [10:31] to [12:23]
• Balancing Investing with Debt Repayment – [12:33] to [14:03]
• Mindset Shift, Proving Doubters Wrong – [14:31] to [15:24]
• Next Goals & Money Philosophy – [15:42] to [16:35]

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Finance 101: Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) Explained

(Dr. Dahle’s summary, [17:12] onward)

• PSLF requires 10 years of payments while working full-time (30+ hours/week) for a government or nonprofit employer.
• After 10 years, the remaining loan balance is forgiven tax-free. This is far superior to the 25–30 year income-driven repayment (IDR) options, which often feature tax bomb forgiveness.
• The government has streamlined PSLF since the initial rocky roll-out; now over a million people have received forgiveness.
• Recent legislation has not changed PSLF, though some alterations have been made to IDR programs.
• Federal lending caps are changing, meaning future students may need private loans to supplement federal borrowing.
  • “It really does work...if you qualify for it, go for it.”
• Key takeaways:
  • Learn the rules, follow them strictly.
  • Financial literacy + discipline (“the superpower”) puts medical professionals in a strong, rare position.
  • Community is available—don’t face finances alone.

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Memorable Quotes

• [07:06] Dr. Dahle: “So what you’re telling me is live like a resident works, that you can wipe out even half a million dollars in student loans in three years?”
• [07:12] Andrew: “Absolutely.”
• [14:31] Andrew: “I kind of stopped reading medical information like that last half of fourth year and just started reading financial information.”
• [16:21] Colleen: “Hitting millionaire status would be pretty amazing. I think just trying to get a good work-life balance and spend more time with family, do more vacations, things like that.”
• [18:55] Dr. Dahle: “Having the combination of financial literacy and financial discipline is so rare in our society that if you have both of them, it’s like having a superpower.”

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Final Thoughts

This episode highlights the transformative power of focused, intentional financial decisions for medical professionals. Andrew and Colleen's story shows that massive student loan burdens can be eliminated shockingly quickly with the right discipline, support, and work ethic, and that PSLF remains a viable path for many. The actionable lessons, honest discussion of sacrifice, and the positive future outlook will resonate with any healthcare professional facing big debts and big dreams.

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Transcript

[A]

This is the White Coat Investor podcast, Milestones to Millionaire. Celebrating stories of success along the journey to financial freedom.

[B]

This is Milestones to Millionaire podcast number 250. Emergency physician wipes out $500,000 in student loans in three years. This podcast is sponsored by Bob Bayani at Protuity. He's an independent provider of disability insurance planning solutions to the medical community in every state and a longtime White Coat Investor sponsor. He specializes in working with residents and fellows early in their careers to set up sound financial and insurance strategies. If you need to review your disability insurance coverage or just need to get this critical insurance in place, contact Bob. You can do [e-mail] Protuity. You can email infoorotuity.com or you can call 973-771-9100. All right, don't forget about our financial boot camp. This is a free email course. It's your fast track to being debt free within five years of residency and can help you become a millionaire, just like those that we interview on this show. You can sign up for [e-mail] Bootcamp. All right, we're gonna talk for a few minutes about public service loan forgiveness after this episode, so stick around. Our guests on the Milestones to Millionaire podcast today are Andrew and Colleen. Guys, welcome to the podcast.

[A]

Thank you.

[C]

Yeah, thanks for having us.

[B]

Okay, tell us a little bit about yourselves. Andrew, you're the doc, is that right?

[C]

Yes. Yes, correct.

[B]

And Colleen, what do you do for a living?

[A]

I'm a physical therapist.

[B]

Okay, so doc and a physical therapist, tell us what part of the country you're in and how far you are out of school and training.

[C]

You can go first.

[A]

Uh, sure. Yeah. We're in the Midwest. We're in Louisville, Kentucky, and I am eight years out of training.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I'm a little bit more than three years out of training.

[B]

And tell us what you have accomplished.

[C]

So I paid off around $509,000 in student loans.

[B]

How much?

[C]

509.

[B]

509. Were those just yours?

[C]

Yeah, undergrad and med school.

[B]

Wow. Okay, so how much did undergraduate tuition cost?

[C]

So I initially moved from, like, out of state. It was out of state tuition, and it was for a sports scholarship, which ended up kind of changing throughout the undergrad years. But it was an expensive out of state school, as you can see.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. All right. How much of this was PT school debt?

[A]

No, I have my own debt from PT school.

[B]

You have your own debt too? Did you guys have you both paid off? All Your debt. If we just paid off Andrew's debt.

[A]

Just Andrew's. I have two more years of pslf.

[B]

Okay, you're going for PSLF with yours. Okay, very cool. So, Andrew, do you not have a PSLF qualifying job?

[C]

Well, I did, so I guess like right before COVID Actually, right before entering residency, I got like, own occupation disability insurance and then refinanced out of the federal program for like half the interest rate. I guess like, when I was graduating, there was like such a small percentage of people successfully getting pslf and it just seemed somewhat subjective. And I guess I just wanted a, like a very definitive plan. And I knew that I would kind of attack the student loans for the first three years. Just kind of how you'd always recommend it in all your education.

[B]

You just went and dropped an anvil on it in the corner because you still wouldn't qualify for PSLF for. For four more years or so, right?

[C]

Correct. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Very cool. Okay. How long have you guys been together?

[A]

Since like our senior year of college. So long time.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. So a long time. This whole, this whole journey, this whole pathway, you've been together. So when you were talking about going to med school and PT school and the debt from that, what kind of discussions did you have about borrowing that much money?

[C]

I felt like there wasn't a lot of conversation about it. It was just kind of like this is the reality. We, we both kind of come from, I would say, probably like lower middle class income families. And we were both, I guess, like the first in our family to kind of go to like, I guess, postgraduate kind of training program. So we, we knew we were both kind of like treading like unchartered territory to a certain extent. And I guess it was just kind of like the nature of the beast.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. There weren't any parents writing big checks for you to go to grad school, correct?

[A]

No.

[B]

Yeah. Okay, so tell us how you did this. I mean, obviously you got the decent income. Emergency physician, plus a physical therapist. You're both working full time? Yep.

[C]

Correct.

[B]

What kind of income are we looking. Talking about over the last three years or so combined?

[C]

Combined. I was looking at like the W2s from last year, and I think it's like a. Right around like 600 or so.

[B]

You guys are working hard.

[C]

Trying to.

[B]

When I add up the average PT salary and the average emergency physician salary, it doesn't add up to 600. You guys are doing a lot of hard work, so good on you for that. And how much of that do you Think you sent to your student loans every year?

[C]

I don't know. I should have calculated the percentage wise. I know that we would get paid every two weeks and I know that the initial base pay for the refinance loan was around 5 or 7,000. And I know that the subsequent two week paycheck would be around a take home of like 12 to 14. I know like around like 10 of that would go right to the bank too. So it was around 15 to 20 per month, which was kind of rough when it was happening, but I'm so glad it's done.

[B]

Yeah. So you sent your lender $15,000 plus a month?

[C]

Basically, yes.

[B]

It's amazing how quickly half a million dollars in loans goes away when you do that. Okay, so this required, I don't know if sacrifice is the right word, but a lifestyle choice. You made a lifestyle choice that Instead of spending $15,000 a month, you were going to send it to the lender. Tell us what that required, what maybe some of the, some of the things you felt the most, the biggest sacrifices, maybe from doing that.

[A]

I think we basically just, we continued to just live off of my salary essentially. And then his salary was pretty much loans and taxes.

[B]

I suppose your tax bill went up dramatically, right?

[A]

Yes, for sure. But I think we kind of continued living like we were like when he was in residency, we didn't really change our lifestyle. We did buy a house. So that changed like house payment at some point in the three years of him paying it off. But it was other than that, we pretty much just lived very frugally and.

[C]

And we, we bought a house after residency. It was enduring.

[B]

So what you're telling me is live like a resident works, that you can wipe out even half a million dollars in student loans in three years?

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

You know how much pushback I get on that recommendation? It's a lot of pushback. People like, you shouldn't do that. You can't do that. It won't work. And I'm like, actually, I meet people every week for whom it worked.

[C]

Yeah. Whenever you started these, these podcasts here, like the MTM shows, I would always kind of just like look at like the prior guests and just kind of look at like their student loan burden and their take home pay and leave, like leaving medical school, I knew that I was completely on like the, the far end of the curve as far as like student loan debt. And it was definitely nerve wracking. And it felt like you're kind of betting on yourself to a certain degree. But I think if you go in with a plan, I mean it's doable. I think you just have to stay focused and have great spousal support throughout all of it.

[B]

You know, one of the things that sometimes is not talked about as much live like a resident sometimes doesn't just refer to how you're spending, it actually refers to how you're working too. How many shifts a month have you been working the last three years?

[C]

Probably around 15 to 16.

[B]

Eights, tens, twelves, what are they?

[C]

They're around tens. Like ten on average probably.

[B]

Okay, so this is more than full time emergency medicine. People gotta realize this, right? Full time emergency medicine is 15 8s or 12 12s. That's really what full time is. So you are working more than that. Cause you're working 15 or 16, 10. So. So that's why your income was higher than the average emergency physician. Was that intentional? Did you deliberately work more in order to wipe out these loans faster or was that just what they happen to need and you're like, I can do that.

[C]

Probably the second I would say, like, I was just, you know, I'm fresh out of training, I feel like I have energy to work and I, I felt like most of my peers around my age group were working that average. So I kind of didn't really question it. So it wasn't intentional, but it worked out well.

[B]

Yes, because it allowed you to write these $15,000 $20,000 checks every month to your lender and get rid of those student loans. Okay. There's lots of people out there like you, maybe like me, that didn't necessarily come from, you know, upper middle class background, no help for school at all. It's on you, you know, whether you figure out some public service loan forgiveness path, whether you refinance them and pay them off yourself, it's on you. What advice do you have for those people?

[C]

I think I was, I was thinking about the question. I think if you know, you, you obviously choose a medical specialty because you love it and you feel like you can do it for a long time. And you know, I know that some medical specialties pay, you know, tremendous amounts. Some pay I would say like pretty low amounts, just the nature of the beast. But I would say like if your student loan like debt to potential gross income ratios, you know, approaching that more than two to one ratio, you should really become financially illiterate and have like a definitive plan. I think if it was around a one to one ratio, I think you don't, you could probably just kind of get by and it would be okay without too much. But I, I know that was the. The debt amount was a huge nitus for kind of just becoming literate and trying to absorb as much information and trying to have a definitive student loan plan pay off.

[B]

Colleen, when did you learn about public service loan forgiveness?

[A]

I think after PT school, maybe like at the very end of school or like a few months into. Oh, I have all these loans. What do we do with them? But it was. I felt like I was kind of gambling going into it because I started it in 2017 and that's when the first group of people was applying for forgiveness. So it was still.

[B]

And getting denied, mostly getting denied was what all the news in 2017 was, because nobody had actually made 10 years of payments yet.

[A]

Yes. So that was kind of scary. I was like, well, I hope this works. And I guess in two years, I guess I'll still be saying, I hope it's still working, but.

[B]

Well, I mean, now, now a million people plus have received public service loan forgiveness. We're pretty darn sure it works at this point, right? Yeah. So did that affect your job decision? Was this the job you would have taken either way, do you think, or did you actually choose a job deliberately to. To make sure you got pslf?

[A]

No, I think I'm still aware, like, in the realm of pt, that I would have chosen regardless of pslf, though I do, like, when I, when I was looking for jobs, it did change what I was looking for, I guess, but. But overall, no, I'm where I would choose to be.

[B]

How much did you owe when you came out of PT school, and how much do you expect to receive in forgiveness?

[A]

185,000. And that's what I.

[B]

About that amount is what you expect to get forgiveness? Yes. Yeah. Well, that's not surprising given the pathway that federal student loan management has taken over the last few years. I mean, for three and a half years, you didn't have to make payments, right?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So this has worked out pretty well for your time period.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. There's definitely a point where my debt just kept climbing, but I think during that three year period, it kind of steadied, so that's been good.

[B]

Okay. All right. Have you guys been working on any other financial goals in the last three years, or is pretty much everything you could squeeze out of your budget been going to these loans?

[C]

No, I mean, kind of just with like the live, like a resident mentality. I mean, throughout the first three years out of training, we were able to max out 2 HSAs 2 backdoor Roth IRAs, and close to max out, like our 403 BS at least to get their match. And close. I think you max it out every year, so we've been able to do that. I think the retirement and long term savings has not been the largest goal, obviously, but I know that you'll frequently refer to it as paying down debt as a negative bond. So that was kind of something that was in the back of my mind.

[B]

So what you're telling me is you could have paid off these student loans even faster if that was all you're doing.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Very cool. Very cool. A typical moderate, balanced approach is what most people do. So there's certainly nothing wrong with that at all. So how much have you acquired in investments? What's your investment portfolio look like at this point?

[C]

So I guess this taking into account, I guess like home equity, our 403B accounts, HSAs and Roths, I think it's around 500, probably give or take with market changes and things or. And I guess we also have a, like a high yield savings account that we have for like a emergency fund. So it's around 500 as we speak.

[B]

That's a heck of a swing from minus 500 to 500 in three years.

[C]

Yeah, it's pretty crazy.

[B]

You should be pretty proud of that. The amazing thing too is that that's the slow one, right? That million is the slowest. The next million goes a lot faster. So it's pretty awesome. Well, you guys have done fantastic. You should be very proud of yourselves. Do you have any final advice for those out there who are where you were three or four or five years ago and want to accomplish what you've accomplished?

[C]

So actually when we were sitting through like our exit counseling, like, student loan counseling appointment in like our fourth year of med school, I remember I was sitting like right next to like, my good friend and remember I was like, kind of sounds kind of bad, but I kind of stopped reading medical information like that last half of fourth year and just started reading financial information. So I was listening to a lot of your podcasts and I read your book at that time and remember sitting next to him and I was like, I'm gonna pay it off in three years. Here's my student loan debt. And he's like, no, you're not awesome.

[B]

You showed him. I hope he listens to this podcast.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. So a couple months ago I actually called him and I was like, hey, man, I paid it off. And he's like, no, you didn't. So I Bet that felt bad to prove him wrong.

[B]

Yeah, I bet that felt pretty good. Awesome that you still had his number to call him. That's pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Very cool. Well, congratulations to both of you. You've done very well. You've obviously smashed it out of the park on student loan management. What's next for you? What, what goal is your next financial goal to work on?

[A]

I think we're doing some like, renovations to the house and we, we've definitely, like, even through this, saving and paying off loans, like, we've always set aside money to still like, go on like one or two, like, vacations a year. So we, we did try to a lot for fun in the midst of it, because I think we would have gone crazy otherwise. But I think we want to just continue traveling and from a financial perspective, I think continuing to build our portfolios, but also eventually pay off the house in the next five to 10 years, I think would be our next goal too.

[C]

I think it would be. Hitting millionaire status would be pretty amazing. I think just trying to get a good work life balance and spend more time with family, do more vacations, things like that.

[B]

Yeah. I'm guessing you hit millionaire status about the time you receive pslf, Colleen. I'll bet that's about when you guys are millionaires, which would be pretty awesome. So awesome. You guys are crushing it. You should be proud of yourselves. I gotta go on to another interview. Unfortunately, we're recording like six of these today. But I'm gonna let you go and just tell you to keep going, man. You're doing awesome. And this is gonna give you so much flexibility in your careers and in your personal lives that you're gonna be super happy that you concentrated at the beginning of your careers on your finances and have really given yourself so many options.

[C]

Well, thank you very much.

[A]

Yeah, thank you.

[B]

Okay. I hope you enjoyed that. You know, it's pretty amazing how well live like a resident actually works when people actually do it. Right. Half a million dollars in student loans gone in a year, plus another half million dollars in, you know, in net worth in addition to that. Right. It's a million dollar swing in net worth in three years. Okay. Live like a resident works. Do you have to do it? No, it's optional. Right. It's your life. You get to choose what you want to do. But most docs probably ought to do at least a brief live like a resident period to really jumpstart their finances. It gives you so many more options by mid career in what you do with your career, what you do with your life, and you'll be surprised how many of those you want. The burnout rate right now is like 50%, right? So you got to assume you're going to deal with at least some burnout during your career. And having the financial wherewithal to make changes in your job, to make changes in your financial life is very worthwhile. All right, I promised you I was going to mention PSLF at the end of this podcast. PSLF Public Service Loan Forgiveness program that essentially started in 2007 requires you to make 10 years of payments while being employed full time, 30 plus hours a week for a nonprofit or government employer, or if you're in Texas or California contracting with a nonprofit that doesn't work in any other state, unfortunately, but in those two states it does. And if you will make Your payments for 10 years in a qualifying program, programs seem to change all the time. But in a qualifying program, 10 years of payments, whatever you still owe after 10 years is forgiven tax free. That's way better than the forgiveness available through some of the income driven repayment programs that require you now to make payments for 25 or 30 years. And when it is forgiven, that forgiveness is taxable. So if you get $600,000 in student loans forgiven after 25 years, you now owe taxes on that $600,000, which might be about the same amount you borrowed to start with. So it's not necessarily a great pathway, but if you qualify for it, PSLF usually is a great pathway. If you're in a PSLF qualifying job, this is almost surely the way you ought to manage your federal student. Okay, the program works. Yes, it started in 2007. So the first people that could have gotten it were in 2017 after 10 years of payments. But a lot of people, like, they couldn't figure it out. It was complicated. Right. So they're applying for forgiveness or the government's not counting it. Right. And they're reporting that nobody's getting it in 2017. Well, it wasn't actually true. The people who qualified for it were getting it in 2017. There just weren't very many people that qualified for it. They hadn't made 10 years of payments, or they weren't in the right program, or the government couldn't figure out how to count to 120 or whatever the. But as the years have gone by, the government's figured out how to do this right. They're a lot better at processing the applications, and people understand the rules a little bit better. So when people are applying now, after having made 10 years of qualifying payments, they are indeed receiving public service loan forgiveness. Over a million people, okay, we've had tons and tons and tons of white coat investors who have received this. They've been on this podcast, a few of them, but most of them have not been on the podcast. This happens all the times. Doctors get 200, 300, 400, $600,000 forgiven tax free. It really does work. So if you qualify it for it, go for it. A lot of people worried about public service loan forgiveness this summer when the One Big Beautiful Bill act was being debated back and forth in Congress. They feared there were going to be some changes. There were basically no changes made to public service loan forgiveness. Now there were changes made to the income Driven repayment programs, which are the payment programs that most doctors are in while going for public service loan forgiveness. And the truth is that they're not quite as awesome as the last version under the Biden administration was, which got stalled in court anyway. But, you know, so you may not get quite as much forgiveness as you would have if you were under that plan. But it's still a very nice way to take care of federal student loans. Now, future medical students aren't going to have nearly as much of their education paid for with federal loans. So it's only going to take care of part of their student loans because most of them are going to need some private loans as well, because they're only going to be able to borrow up to $50,000 per year in federal student loans. And that just doesn't cover the cost of attendance at most medical schools. But for those who are currently in school or who are residents or fellows or attendings, now, most of their educational debt, pretty much all of it for most of them, can be forgiven via public service loan forgiveness. So don't discount it, don't overlook it. Maybe this would have worked out even better for Andrew than taking his student loans into a corner and dropping an anvil on them. But that's also a very effective technique, right? You send them $15,000 a month. Even huge student loans go away pretty quickly. So don't be afraid of that method either, especially if you don't like the uncertainty of worrying about legislative change or executive change to some of those federal student loan programs. But that's the way PSLF works. Be aware of it. It's a great way to help you to pay for medical, dental, et cetera, school. But you got to become financially literate, right? Having the combination of financial literacy and financial discipline is so rare in our society that if you have both of them, it's like having a superpower. And after a while you start looking around going nobody else knows this stuff. Nobody else is doing this stuff. Why aren't they? And you realize that you're getting ahead. Not that it's a competition against other people, but you're getting ahead in moving toward your financial goals and how you want to live your life. This podcast was sponsored by Bob Baiani at Protuity. A listener sent us this review. Bob has been absolutely terrific to work with. He's always quickly and clearly communicated with me by both email and or telephone, with responses to my inquiries usually coming the same day. I have somewhat of a unique situation and Bob has been able to help explain the implications and underwriting process in a clear and professional manner. Contact [e-mail] fortuity or by emailing infoortuity.com or calling 973-771-9100 to get your disability insurance in place today. Thanks for listening to this podcast. You can come on it just apply whitecoatinvestor.com milestones use the white Coat Investor community. We have these great online communities. We have a subreddit, mostly younger people there. We have a forum, mostly older people there. We have a Facebook group, mostly Facebooky people there. We even have a financially empowered women's group. But there is a community that can help you answer your questions and provide support as you move down this road. As you tick off milestone after milestone after milestone toward becoming a millionaire and beyond. You are not doing this alone. There are people walking alongside you. Don't let the financial services industry put you in a silo where you think you're all alone and can't talk about money to anybody else. You can. It's not a taboo subject. You can talk to your colleagues. You can talk to your peers. Please talk to your trainees and students about it. I'm sick of seeing docs and other high income professionals being taken advantage of and have financial stress that affects the way they do their daily work. It's not right. We're trying to stamp it out here at the White Coat Investor. Help us to do so by spreading the word. See you next time on the Milestones to Millionaire podcast.

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The hosts of the White Coat Investor are not licensed accountants, attorneys or financial advisors. This podcast is for your entertainment and information only. It should not be considered professional or personalized financial advice. You should consult the appropriate professional for specific advice relating to your situation.