White Horse Inn — Equipped: Defending Religion from Scientific Skepticism

Date: March 9, 2025
Panel: Michael Horton, Justin Holcomb, Bob Hiller, Walter R. Strickland II

Episode Overview

This episode of White Horse Inn explores the widely debated relationship between science and theology. The hosts confront the misconception that faith and science are inherently in conflict, instead offering a nuanced, historical, and biblical perspective on how they complement each other. The discussion equips Christians to defend their faith amidst scientific skepticism, drawing on philosophy, church history, and contemporary challenges.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. No Fundamental Conflict Between Science and Theology

• Science and Faith as Distinct Domains

  • Science investigates the how of nature (secondary causes, mechanisms).
  • Theology addresses the why and provides meaning (ultimate purpose, spiritual truth).
  • “It isn't the purpose of science. It's beyond its province to be able to adjudicate questions of theology, just as it is beyond theology to adjudicate questions about how that science answers. So they're not in conflict unless we put them in conflict.” — Michael Horton [01:02 & 25:05]

• Two “Books” of Revelation

  • Book of Scripture: Directs us to salvation and spiritual truth.
  • Book of Nature/Creation: Displays God’s creative handiwork, accessible through science.
  • “As you read through that psalm, David's observation of the creation's order drove him to exalt the word of God. We have been given two books to read…” — Bob Hiller [01:57]

2. Historical Context and Philosophical Foundations

• Christian Roots of Modern Science

  • Early scientists (e.g., Robert Boyle, Copernicus, Kepler, Pascal, Florence Nightingale) were theists; their faith fueled scientific inquiry.
  • “Historically, too, almost all of the major scientists throughout history were priests or theologians.” — Michael Horton [13:59]

• Misuse and Dogmatization of Science

  • Science has, in some circles, assumed an unquestionable authority akin to religious dogma.
  • “Do you guys think that there's a sense in which science has become a new dogmatism? So it's almost as if scientists have become the new priests and we're kind of just supposed to listen to them blindly...” — Bob Hiller [21:22]

• Philosophy of Science

  • All scientific inquiry presupposes certain metaphysical realities: logic, ethical standards, the uniformity of nature, intelligibility through reason.
  • “Science requires Christian theology and a theistic worldview for science to even work… every scientific theory expresses a worldview. And philosophical preconceptions determine where facts are sought…” — Justin Holcomb [09:59 & 12:09]

3. Science and Worldview Assumptions

• Borrowed Capital Argument

  • Science assumes principles (e.g., uniformity, logic) that naturalistic worldviews cannot justify on their own.
  • “To sit in the lap of a worldview that you're slapping is not really the most...” — Justin Holcomb [13:59]

• Limits of Science

  • Science deals with regularities; theology deals with unique, miraculous events (e.g., virgin birth, resurrection).
  • “You can't weigh the incarnation, you can't measure it. So if you reduce everything to scientific questions, you're going to miss a lot that's really important.” — Michael Horton [39:58]

4. Critiques of Scientific Naturalism

• Evolutionary Argument Against Naturalism

  • Pure naturalistic evolution would not produce self-reflective, moral, or rational beings.
  • “If evolution were simply by natural selection, nature would not select for thought and ethics and logic and reason.” — Michael Horton [32:26]

• Miracles and Categorization Mistakes

  • Dismissing miracles because they don’t fit normal patterns is a philosophical error, not a scientific one.
  • “Well, miracles, they just can't happen. We can't observe them. And Lewis says, well, that's why they're, they're called miracles...” — Bob Hiller [41:17]

• Notable Illustration

  • CS Lewis’s analogy: “Looking for God or heaven by exploring space is like reading or seeing all Shakespeare's plays in the hope that you will find Shakespeare as one of the characters.” — [28:26]

5. Faith, Reason, and Engagement with Science

• Reasoned Faith (Not Blind Faith)

  • Faith is not opposed to reason; both are essential. Faith is not mere fideism (groundless belief).
  • “It's faith that makes sense and it has a relationship with reason. There's reasons for believing it.” — Justin Holcomb [23:16]

• Universal Need for Faith

  • Everyone, including scientists, holds certain beliefs on faith (e.g., the intelligibility of nature).
  • “Faith is not something that is unique to Christians. Everybody has faith in something or someone, and that includes scientists.” — Michael Horton [24:21]

• Humility and Accommodation

  • The Church errs when making Scripture answer scientific questions it was not meant to address.
  • Calvin’s “accommodation”: God “speaks baby talk” in Scripture to accommodate human understanding.
  • “It's that God speaks baby talk to us. He loves us so much that if he just revealed himself in all of his majesty, he would incinerate us.” — Michael Horton [35:56]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind. In truth, a legitimate conflict between religion and science cannot exist."
  — Quoting Albert Einstein, Justin Holcomb [06:31]

• “Faith is founded on verifiable fact… we're not just kind of… this blind leap where you cover your eyes and just leap into nothing.”
  — Bob Hiller recalling Dr. Rod Rosenblatt [08:30]

• “Looking for God or heaven by exploring space is like reading or seeing all Shakespeare's plays in the hope that you will find Shakespeare as one of the characters.”
  — CS Lewis, quoted by Justin Holcomb [28:26]

• “You can't just look at this thing and say, oh yeah, blind chance that just happened. Like, there's got to be somebody designing this thing.”
  — Bob Hiller on recognizing design in creation [08:30]

• “To sit in the lap of a worldview that you're slapping is not really the most...”
  — Justin Holcomb, on scientists borrowing from theism [13:59]

• "Science is like a cousin. History is a sister."
  — Michael Horton, on the relationship between science, theology, and history [39:58]

• "God is the Author of creation. Therefore, science is simply the study of God's Book of Nature and delighting in that story."
  — Bob Hiller [42:22]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:57] – Introduction to the main theme: relationship between faith and science
• [04:07] – Cheesy hymns, “Earth and All Stars,” and how all life can glorify God
• [05:03] – Historical roots of the perceived conflict (Enlightenment, warfare thesis)
• [06:31] – The Einstein quote and complementary relationship between faith & science
• [07:12] – Parallel between general/special revelation and science/theology
• [08:30] – Apologetics and the value of scientific training for faith leaders
• [09:59] – Philosophical underpinnings: preconditions of reason, logic, ethics
• [13:59] – “Borrowed capital” argument and historical case studies
• [18:32] – Shift in scientific community and intersection with Christian thought
• [21:22] – Science as new social orthodoxy; “scientists as new priests” discussion
• [22:53] – Misreading of Hebrews 11:1 and errors of fideism
• [24:21] – Universality of faith, even in science
• [26:45] – Category mistakes: Dawkins, car-maker analogy
• [28:26] – CS Lewis and the limits of empirical search for God
• [31:06] – Laws of logic as a challenge for naturalists
• [32:26] – Evolutionary argument against naturalism (Haldane, C.S. Lewis)
• [35:56] – Proper limits of theology and science; Calvin’s accommodation
• [39:26] – Scripture’s primary concern: the “what for” more than the “how”
• [40:42] – Miraculous events and the rightful limits of scientific inquiry
• [41:17] – CS Lewis on the nature of miracles
• [42:22] – Theology of vocation: scientific discovery as praise to God

Conclusion

The episode concludes by urging humility and discernment in both scientific and theological pursuits. Faith and science, when properly understood, enrich each other rather than compete. Christians are called to love and investigate God’s creation, delighting in both the Book of Scripture and the Book of Nature. The rejection of simplistic dichotomies and the embrace of a robust, historically faithful worldview prepares believers to give thoughtful answers in a skeptical age.