Ranking 50 of the Best and Worst Theologians in Church History

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Ranking 50 of the Best and Worst Theologians in Church History

Podcast: White Horse Inn
Host(s): Michael Horton, Justin Holcomb, Bob Hiller, Walter R. Strickland II
Episode Date: November 30, 2025

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Episode Overview

This playful yet insightful episode of White Horse Inn features a roundtable game among hosts Michael Horton, Justin Holcomb, Bob Hiller, and Walter R. Strickland II. Their challenge: to collectively rank 50 of the most influential (and notorious) theologians in church history from “Superior” (S-tier) to “Fail” (F-tier). The hosts debate, banter, and at times disagree as they assess each theologian’s doctrinal content, impact, orthodoxy, and even preaching prowess, all driven by the underlying question—what makes a theologian great or problematic for the church? The episode captures both the serious stakes of Christian theology and the camaraderie of theological sparring.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “Tier List” Format and Criteria

• Structure: Theologians are ranked in categories: S (Superior), A, B, C, D, F (Fail), based on a mixture of doctrinal fidelity, historical impact, and personal quirks.
• Criteria: Gospel clarity, orthodoxy (especially adherence to creeds), personal influence, and overall contribution are frequently invoked. Hosts sometimes distinguish between theological agreement and historical impact.
  • Mike Horton: “I’m going through content, gospel, anthropology, and sin.” [30:47]
  • Bob Hiller: “If you don’t cross your fingers with the Nicene Creed, you start as a C.” [34:05]

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2. The Tier Game in Action: Lively Debates

Noteworthy Theologians & How They Were Judged

S-tier (Superior):

• Athanasius, Augustine, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Thomas Aquinas, Cranmer, Maximus the Confessor, Chrysostom, Martin Chemnitz, Irenaeus, Rod Rosenblatt (host’s tribute pick):
  • Bob Hiller: “There are few people this significant in the history of Christianity, especially Western Christianity. He [Calvin] should be a superior theologian. He just is.” [25:58]
  • Walter Strickland: “That guy [Rod Rosenblatt] is why I preach Christ crucified.” [40:46]

A-tier:

• Ambrose, John Owen, B.B. Warfield, William Perkins, Carl F.H. Henry, Turretin, Carl Barth, Spurgeon, Herman Bavinck, Beza, Melanchthon, Charles Octavius Booth, Francis Pieper, Charels Hodge, etc.
  • Justin Holcomb on Warfield: “He even slapped down his student, Jay Gresham Machen, over the color line.” [12:59]

Mixed/Lower Tiers:

• Controversial Figures:
  • Friedrich Schleiermacher: Unanimous F, “If you can call him a theologian.” [04:32]
  • Pelagius, Arius, Finney, Harnack: All rank at the bottom for various forms of heresy or undermining core Christian doctrines.
  • John Wycliffe: B tier, “He liked the Bible, but…” [04:44]
  • Kierkegaard: B tier, lauded as a “theological philosopher,” but not without critique. [02:57]
  • Kuyper, Lombard, Barth, Balthasar: Each debated for their contributions and the problematic aspects of their legacy.
  • Ministers like Menno Simons and Bo Geertz: Lower ranks despite important influence, their ideas “not confessional” or “were not Calvinistic”.

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3. Memorable Moments and Banter

• Sharp One-Liners:

  • Walter Strickland: “This is like calling one piece of trash, calling another piece of trash more trashy.” [08:16] (on Schleiermacher vs. Finney debate)
  • Justin Holcomb (on Bohme): “Cobbler who should have stayed a cobbler. He would have enriched the world more.” [21:42]
  • Bob Hiller (on C.I. Scofield): “Who needs a Bible when you have the notes?” [37:03]

• Passionate Defense and Critique:

  • Justin Holcomb: “Calvin said he got all of his sacramental theology from Vermigli.” [03:40]
  • Mike Horton (on Chrysostom): “Clear, but a little synergistic.” [24:20]
  • Justin Holcomb (on Melanchthon): “He and Calvin were best friends, so for both those reasons…” [34:44]

• Fun Personal Touches:

  • Bob Hiller: “You know, Bo Geertz, he was like the Swedish CS Lewis.” [23:31]
  • Bob Hiller: “Menno Simons would be a great name for a fish, Walter.” [29:41]

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4. How to Rank A Theologian? Agreement vs. Importance

• The hosts frequently wrestle with whether a theologian should be highly ranked for their doctrinal soundness or for their historical/theological impact, even if their views are problematic.

  • Justin Holcomb: “Can we say his importance in orthodoxy, not necessarily that we agree…” [05:58]
  • Mike Horton: “No, I’m going based on content, not influence.” [33:58]

• Sometimes, the hosts favor orthodoxy over impact, other times, historical significance wins out (e.g., Calvin, Melanchthon, Cranmer).

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5. Reflections on Orthodoxy, Heresy, and Influence

• Various heresies and theological trends are critiqued, especially pantheism, Pelagianism, and doctrinal innovations not rooted in creedal Christianity.

  • Mike Horton: “Pelagius is at least within the scope of a Christian heresy. Pantheism is a different, complete religion.” [08:21]
  • Justin Holcomb (on Origen): “The Fs of all Fs.” [31:26]

• The episode underscores the ongoing significance of doctrinal clarity for the life and teaching of the church and its contemporary relevance.

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Timestamps of Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |------------|--------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:39–03:47 | Debate on Vermigli, Kierkegaard’s role, introduction to ranking method | | 07:00 | Discussion of Ambrose, reasons for ranking | | 08:01–09:49 | Schleiermacher vs. Finney—“Piece of trash more trashy” debate | | 09:49–10:10 | Abraham Kuyper—his framework, theological legacy, and controversies | | 12:45 | B.B. Warfield and the American fundamentalist tradition | | 15:13–15:50| Cornelius Van Til’s apologetics and Christology, historic importance | | 17:13–17:20| Story of Macrina catechizing Gregory of Nyssa (notable mini-bio) | | 20:12–20:25| Segment on Kant and his role in modern theology | | 23:38 | Bo Geertz’s story and significance (Swedish C.S. Lewis) | | 24:47–25:15| Chrysostom—preaching on justification, “Golden Mouth” | | 25:47–26:02| John Calvin’s significance and the ripple effect of Calvinism| | 27:44–28:40| Jonathan Edwards’ legacy debated | | 33:58–34:05| John Henry Newman and influence/content criteria | | 39:51–40:14| Martin Chemnitz’s place in the Lutheran Reformation | | 40:43–40:46| Rod Rosenblatt, the hosts’ tribute pick—“Superior plus” |

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Notable Quotes

• On Orthodoxy and Heresy:

  • Mike Horton: “Pelagius is at least within the scope of a Christian heresy. Pantheism is a different, complete religion.” [08:21]

• On Ranking Criteria:

  • Bob Hiller: “If you don’t cross your fingers with the Nicene Creed, you start as a C. And if you say some other things that are, like, decent, it bumps you up.” [34:05]

• On Preaching:

  • Justin Holcomb (on Chrysostom): “He said he was his [Calvin’s] favorite preacher of the early fathers.” [24:45]

• On Historical Impact:

  • Justin Holcomb: “Calvin said he got all of his sacramental theology from Vermigli.” [03:40]

• On Theologian Disagreements:

  • Walter Strickland: “This is like calling one piece of trash, calling another piece of trash more trashy.” [08:16]

• On Humility and Influence:

  • Walter Strickland: “That guy [Rod Rosenblatt] is why I preach Christ crucified.” [40:46]

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Episode Tone & Takeaway

The episode is energetic and congenial, marked by laughter, teasing, and moments of sharp theological insight. The hosts’ approach is honest about the difficulty of ranking flawed but influential thinkers, clearly passionate about gospel clarity and creedal orthodoxy, yet open to complexity and nuance.

If you missed it:
This episode is a fun yet substantial tour through Christian history’s towering and troubling thinkers, offering both church history education and lively entertainment. Whether you’re a theology nerd or new to these debates, you’ll leave with a sense of why theology matters—and how every theological innovation, for better or worse, shapes the faith of generations.

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Transcript

[Host]

The five SOLAs of the Reformation brought essential truths of salvation and purpose into clear focus. These truths are just as critical to Christian life today as they were 500 years ago. Rediscover their meaning and relevance in our newest booklet, the five Essential Truths for a Modern Reformation. Inside you'll explore each of the five Grace alone, faith alone, Christ alone, scripture alone, and in God's glory alone, and why they still matter today. Support our work with a gift of any amount and we'll send you a copy. Visit solamidia.org offers to get yours today.

[Bob Hiller]

I won't say his name right. Vermigli.

[Justin Holcomb]

Oh, A. I would.

[Mike Horton]

Oh, Superior. I was like a's not high enough, right? He's Ver.

[Bob Hiller]

Due to his views on the sacraments. I'm sorry, he's not allowed to be in the S category.

[Justin Holcomb]

Oh my goodness, no. It's precisely because of his view on of the sound.

[Walter Strickland]

Single handedly batted him down.

[Mike Horton]

Have you, have you read Vermigli? Vermigli? Is Calvin a pretty like awesome?

[Justin Holcomb]

Calvin said he got all of his. His sacramental theology from Vermili.

[Bob Hiller]

Oh, really?

[Justin Holcomb]

Yeah.

[Bob Hiller]

Okay, See?

[Mike Horton]

All right, next.

[Host]

Applying the riches of the Reformation to the modern Church. This is White Horse Zinn, a weekly roundtable discussion about theology and culture.

[Bob Hiller]

What are the 50 best and worst theologians in church history? Today we are going to play a fun tier list game on White Horse in and we're going to rank 50 different theologians. Good, bad, ugly. It's going to be a great time. None of the other guys knew we were going to do this, so this is going to be great. None of you made the list for what it's worth, so just feel good about that. Here's how the game works. We got a list, a tiered list starting with the letter S. That means like superior. They're like the greatest. Then you got an A, B, a C, a D, and then A world. I'm too familiar with the F world. So what we're going to do here now, F is the worst of all theologians, by the way. What we're going to do here is I'm going to give you a theologian and you are going to rank them. Does this game make sense to you? Host by the way, I'm here with Justin Holcomb, Mike Horton, Walter Strickland, I'm Bob Hiller. We'll get started here with our first theologian, if we want to call him that, by the name of Soren Kierkegaard. Soren Kierkegaard. Where would you all rank Soren Kierkegaard?

[Justin Holcomb]

B.

[Bob Hiller]

B. Why? B.

[Justin Holcomb]

Because he was a very theological philosopher, and he was driven away from pietism that he grew up in and away from Hegel towards a more evangelical understanding, including law and gospel, which he interpreted as moving from the inauthentic to the authentic, the aesthetic to the moral to the evangelical. And it's fascinating how that corresponds to just a basic going by your instincts of beauty and culture, which his era placed at the highest, to moral actually being ethical, making moral distinctions law, and then finally, authentic existence is to be found in the gospel.

[Bob Hiller]

All right, well, I'll keep him there.

[Mike Horton]

Because he said true things about Jesus, and that's pretty good. That's a good start.

[Bob Hiller]

He's also got some pretty great digs at bad preaching, so I enjoy him. Walter, you good at the B?

[Walter Strickland]

I'm. I'm good with the B. Some of his stuff on phenomenology is really helpful as well.

[Bob Hiller]

Oh, okay. Look at that, by the way. No explanations. We got to move quick. Number two.

[Mike Horton]

Okay, don't ask why then.

[Bob Hiller]

I. No, no, I meant no further explanations. And this one. Sorry. Friedrich Schleiermacher.

[Mike Horton]

I heard it already. F. If you haven't heard our thoughts.

[Bob Hiller]

On Friedrich Schleiermacher, check out the previous episodes. Yes, Nuff said.

[Mike Horton]

I heard the Free.

[Bob Hiller]

Free.

[Mike Horton]

I was ready.

[Bob Hiller]

Freddy.

[Mike Horton]

Are we good with that one, guys?

[Justin Holcomb]

Yeah, we're totally good.

[Walter Strickland]

If you can call him a theologian.

[Justin Holcomb]

Yeah, I thought you said a theologian. That's what kind of threw me off about that.

[Bob Hiller]

Yeah, John Wycliffe.

[Walter Strickland]

B. Yeah, yeah, I. I appreciate the B. I mean, he. He liked the Bible, but I'm.

[Mike Horton]

I'm happy to give him a B plus. I. I just.

[Bob Hiller]

Unfortunately, you can't put him halfway through, so we'll stick with B. I think he had some strange issues, but look. Yeah, B is pretty good. All right, here. Here goes why you guys are doing most of the answers. I won't say his name. Right. Vermigli.

[Justin Holcomb]

Oh, A. I would.

[Mike Horton]

Oh, superior. I was like, he's not high enough. Right Ber.

[Bob Hiller]

Due to his views on the sacraments. I'm sorry, he's not allowed to be in the S category.

[Justin Holcomb]

Oh, my goodness. No, it's precisely because of his view of.

[Walter Strickland]

Of the single handedly batted him down.

[Mike Horton]

Have you, have you read Vermigli? Are you just assuming what you. What you think he said? Because of what? Because he's like, you know, he and Calvin are pretty, like, awesome.

[Justin Holcomb]

Calvin said he got all of his sacramental theology from Vermilion.

[Bob Hiller]

Oh, really?

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah.

[Bob Hiller]

Okay. C. All right, next.

[Mike Horton]

Well, how do we do this when it's so clearly an S but someone brings down the ab?

[Bob Hiller]

No, no, it's fair. It's fair. Here's what I'll say.

[Justin Holcomb]

Can we say his importance in orthodoxy? Not necessarily that we agree, like Kierkegaard. We'd have more disagreements with Kierkegaard than is reflected in his being a bee up there.

[Bob Hiller]

M. But his impact on reformed theology is obviously pretty important and pretty good. So he's going to be a superior theologian.

[Mike Horton]

I put Wycliffe above Kierkegaard. But anyway, I'm just trying to get my B plus in there. Go ahead.

[Walter Strickland]

I think.

[Justin Holcomb]

Yeah, you're alone on that one, Justin.

[Bob Hiller]

Here we go. Ambrose. What do you think? I'm going superior on Ambrose for what it's like.

[Justin Holcomb]

Oh, really?

[Bob Hiller]

Yeah, he's a great preacher. Influenced Augustine. Pretty big guy.

[Justin Holcomb]

His view of grace and.

[Mike Horton]

Marriage. I was putting him at a B plus, but I suppose.

[Walter Strickland]

Well, I was.

[Justin Holcomb]

I don't know.

[Walter Strickland]

I appreciate the run up to. Well, anyway, so I guess.

[Bob Hiller]

Wasn't it his preaching. Am I wrong? Isn't his preaching really impacted? It was Augustine.

[Justin Holcomb]

Yeah, but it didn't. Yeah, but it was.

[Mike Horton]

I'd be fine with A.

[Justin Holcomb]

It was early Augusta.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah, I was thinking.

[Justin Holcomb]

I'm okay.

[Walter Strickland]

I was thinking A before Christ.

[Mike Horton]

Center him down. Gospel Rich. I mean, so Mike, Mike, why. Just real quick, one sentence. Why? Why? You had Bob saying superior.

[Justin Holcomb]

Typical patristic source. That is rich. Until it's not. It's, you know. Yeah, great on the gospel. And then you turn the next page and we're back to merit. And it's like it's all the fathers.

[Bob Hiller]

Yeah, that's right. Okay, A is good. A B, that's great. Yeah, Good. Next. Charles.

[Walter Strickland]

Oh, yeah, he's at a B now.

[Justin Holcomb]

Anything below F. Anything below.

[Bob Hiller]

We call it below F. Is Schleiermacher.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah, Schleiermacher. Yeah, Schleiermacher and Finney are down there in the bottom.

[Justin Holcomb]

The other S. Oh, no, don't do that to Schleiermacher. I think Schleiermacher was better than Finney.

[Mike Horton]

Wow.

[Bob Hiller]

Okay.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah.

[Mike Horton]

Really? Wait, wait. Schleimacher is. I gotta think about that real quick.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah.

[Justin Holcomb]

Schleimacher was not a Pelagian.

[Mike Horton]

Yeah, but he was a pain theist.

[Justin Holcomb]

That's not as bad as being a Pelagian.

[Walter Strickland]

I mean, this is like calling like the one piece of trash, calling another piece of trash more trashy.

[Mike Horton]

Wow. I love the fact that Mike's dividing line of Pelagianism. It's like Pelagius is at least within the scope of a Christian heresy. Pantheism is a different complete religion. I know. Different philosophical structure of reality. And Mike so hates Pelagianism. He's like.

[Walter Strickland]

That'S hilarious.

[Bob Hiller]

All right, next one. Abraham Kuiper.

[Walter Strickland]

I'm actually curious what Mike says.

[Mike Horton]

This is going to be fun. This is Walter. I want Walter. I want Walter to go first and then Walter and Mike to go for it.

[Justin Holcomb]

I would say he's an A.

[Walter Strickland]

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would say he's an A. I mean, so I'll grant that to you because of his personal convictions about, I don't know, people who are from Africa and people who are of a different class and things like that. So there's. There's definitely some things that his. That his sort of theological framework gave way to. Even, like, things like apartheid. Not. Not that I'm just assessing him on the basis of race and things like that, but.

[Mike Horton]

Are you jumping in, Bob, or.

[Bob Hiller]

No, I don't have enough. I don't have enough knowledge of Kuiper.

[Justin Holcomb]

To speak to this. I'm okay with a B.

[Mike Horton]

Walter, can you say. Can you say what? Yeah, Walter, can you say more on why B?

[Walter Strickland]

Who? I didn't say B. I said A. Oh.

[Mike Horton]

What?

[Walter Strickland]

Mike said B. Oh, yeah.

[Justin Holcomb]

I'm ready for him to go to a B.

[Walter Strickland]

Can we split him? This is another B plus. If I can B plus. Be diplomatic. So we'll just leave my A because he's a B plus.

[Mike Horton]

I'm good with the A. I mean, I think he blurs sanctification and gospel mandate stuff. So I just talked myself into a bee.

[Bob Hiller]

I think we're comfortable.

[Justin Holcomb]

Yeah, Bee's not horrible. He's good. It's above average.

[Mike Horton]

He's with Kierke.

[Justin Holcomb]

I would say Bovink, his successor, was superior.

[Bob Hiller]

Okay, let's hold off. You can't just name theologians we haven't named yet. Oh, okay.

[Walter Strickland]

All right.

[Bob Hiller]

We'll come back. All right. All right. Adolf von Harnack.

[Justin Holcomb]

Below.

[Bob Hiller]

F. Boy, I hate him. His dad.

[Mike Horton]

Bob, you haven't chimed in very much.

[Walter Strickland]

Go for it.

[Bob Hiller]

I always get the name of. Is it the essence of Christianity? Is that the book?

[Mike Horton]

Yeah.

[Bob Hiller]

And his dad was a Luther scholar. I think he's got some great stuff on preaching. His dad was really fascinating to me, and I believe he told his son that he was a great disappointment because. Very similar to the whole Schleiermacher thing.

[Walter Strickland]

He just.

[Bob Hiller]

He abandoned Christianity, and he did it in a pretty aggressive way.

[Justin Holcomb]

It was because of him that German universities removed the requirement of all professors to the Apostles Creed.

[Walter Strickland]

Oh, wow.

[Mike Horton]

I have a proposal for you guys. Got a proposal, and I'm not because I like them. I'm just thinking, what would be a D? Because, I mean, is he.

[Bob Hiller]

That's a good question.

[Mike Horton]

Is he the same as Finney and Schleiermacher? Is he worse or is he like.

[Bob Hiller]

All these guys are eroding away? Yeah, like, a D to me would be like a sloppy theologian.

[Walter Strickland]

Well, he definitely reduced Christianity.

[Mike Horton]

And, yeah, he's wrapped on everything. Gospel, clarity, sin.

[Justin Holcomb]

Harnack's no better than Schleiermacher. He's actually worse. Well, Schleutermacher required a subscription of the Apostles Creed, the Nicene Creed, and the quote unquote, evangelical symbols, Augsburg Confession and Heidelberg Catechism.

[Bob Hiller]

All right, well, I never realized that Mike was this pro Schleiermacher until this episode. Next.

[Justin Holcomb]

Oh, yeah, you bring up Karnak, and maybe I do sound a little.

[Mike Horton]

Are we gonna push Sly Mocker as a D, or we keep.

[Bob Hiller]

No, we gotta keep moving. So it's over. All right, here we go. Arius.

[Walter Strickland]

Oh, man, that's an easy F. Yeah.

[Bob Hiller]

Easy F. We can move on quickly. He's the arch heart, heretic of everything. Maximus the Confessor.

[Justin Holcomb]

Oh, a.

[Bob Hiller]

All right.

[Justin Holcomb]

I would even say superior, but I.

[Mike Horton]

Don'T know if I was gonna say that feels like a. Yeah, I. I would.

[Walter Strickland]

I'm. I'm way up there, so either superior A for me, Bob.

[Bob Hiller]

I'm good with superior. Yeah, that's great. Great. Next one. St. Basil and. Or Basil, depending on who's definitely. Absolutely. Absolutely.

[Mike Horton]

Agreed.

[Bob Hiller]

Yep.

[Mike Horton]

Keep going.

[Bob Hiller]

B.B. warf.

[Justin Holcomb]

Oh, yeah.

[Walter Strickland]

I mean, yeah.

[Justin Holcomb]

My man, the beard.

[Mike Horton]

Walter, you were like. I mean, I thought you were gonna go like.

[Walter Strickland]

No, no.

[Mike Horton]

Mike and I thought we're gonna have a little fight here.

[Justin Holcomb]

What is it, Walter?

[Walter Strickland]

There's definitely no fight.

[Justin Holcomb]

He even slapped down his student, Jay Gresham Machen, over. Over the color line.

[Bob Hiller]

Yeah, yeah. Great American.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah.

[Bob Hiller]

Best of the best of fundamentalism. Okay.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah, that's good.

[Bob Hiller]

Next.

[Walter Strickland]

I would say, I mean, superior or a. What are we doing?

[Justin Holcomb]

Oh, I say superior.

[Mike Horton]

Right.

[Bob Hiller]

So, like, if we're thinking superior, I'm thinking people who change the world with their theology of significance. And Warfield is an A. Yeah, but I'm not.

[Mike Horton]

See some fruit. Yeah. He wants to examine their life and see if they're Worth.

[Bob Hiller]

I'm not trying to get him to join my Baptist church.

[Mike Horton]

All right.

[Bob Hiller]

William Perkins, A.

[Justin Holcomb]

For me, the greatest father of Elizabethan Anglican Puritanism. Oh, yeah.

[Bob Hiller]

All right, all right. That's fine.

[Mike Horton]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bob Hiller]

Because of Puritanism.

[Mike Horton]

This is the kind of.

[Justin Holcomb]

This is the kind of Puritanism that.

[Mike Horton]

But he. He was Augustinian, too, though. You like Augustine, don't you, Bob?

[Bob Hiller]

I liked him, and he was Lutheran.

[Justin Holcomb]

William Perkins was like, all really good Reformed theologians.

[Mike Horton]

He's like, wait a second. I'm gonna change my grade.

[Bob Hiller]

All right.

[Mike Horton]

Do we put him at an A?

[Bob Hiller]

Yeah, yeah. Clement of Alexandria.

[Justin Holcomb]

Oh, gosh. Gotta consider his time and place. But I would give him a C. Okay.

[Bob Hiller]

Okay. Any arguments there?

[Mike Horton]

I gotta. Yeah, that's our first C. This is hell. Yeah, this is the first C. His doctrine of sin. Iffy. I say iffy, and he's like, awful.

[Walter Strickland]

This is where you get Mike on his doctrine.

[Mike Horton]

No, this is. I know, but sanctification, like, all the. Yeah.

[Bob Hiller]

All right, we're good. We got to keep. We got to keep cooking.

[Mike Horton]

How many of these we doing? We can't have fun.

[Bob Hiller]

Cornelius Van Till.

[Mike Horton]

Oh, this is gonna be fun. As a theologian. As a theologian, right.

[Bob Hiller]

Yeah.

[Justin Holcomb]

Well, he's an apologist.

[Walter Strickland]

An apologist.

[Mike Horton]

He was a bad. So, like the way he read Barth, and he was sloppy on his historical theology.

[Bob Hiller]

Is he the presuppositionalist?

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah, I would say, because of his presuppositionalism. Oh, you say C, huh?

[Justin Holcomb]

He was a transformative figure.

[Bob Hiller]

Okay.

[Walter Strickland]

The transcendentalist argument, I think, is worth something to consider.

[Mike Horton]

Yeah, I love that argument. Any.

[Justin Holcomb]

Any trinitarian.

[Mike Horton]

Any.

[Justin Holcomb]

You know, presuppositions do play a role in how we. How we think. True neutrality and so forth.

[Mike Horton]

If you go through his theology, if you go through his doctrine of God, trinitarian, Christology. I mean, that he's. He's saying spectacular. He's. His apologetics is hit and miss.

[Bob Hiller]

But it's helpful for me to point out I haven't read any of these guys. All right, next. Gregory of Nazianzus.

[Justin Holcomb]

Yes.

[Walter Strickland]

A.

[Justin Holcomb]

A superior.

[Bob Hiller]

Excuse me? Yeah. And his homie, Gregory of Nyssa.

[Justin Holcomb]

I'd put him at an A. Yep.

[Bob Hiller]

I would, too. Those guys on what, Cappadocians, Fathers.

[Walter Strickland]

This is. This is the run up to the Niceno concept to Napoleon Creed.

[Justin Holcomb]

Yeah. It's just a slight thing here, but of. Of the. So Basil and Nyssa were brothers, and Nazianzus was their friend. Basil and Nazianzus were more willing to revise Origen than Nyssa was his sister Macrina actually catechized him and Basil. And when her brother Gregory of Nyssa was aspiring to be a philosopher and was kind of walking away from Christianity because he wanted to be a Neoplatonist philosopher, she catechized him. And we have his biographical statements of how he came back to the faith through her catechesis and mainly talking him into the rationale for the Resurrection. And it's abs. She should be in the superior category up there. But we don't have. We don't have a Karina on the list.

[Mike Horton]

We have him in A, right?

[Bob Hiller]

Yep.

[Mike Horton]

Not B. Yes. And if you guys want the book in my series. No series. Know the theologians. Jennifer McNutt and David McNutt did a bunch of theologians, but they actually did it on the Cappadocians and Macrina, and they did a lot of the work on Macrina and the story that Mike was telling. So that's some fascinating stuff.

[Bob Hiller]

All right, next one. Hagel.

[Mike Horton]

I'm trying to. Okay. I just want to have some. Look at his picture.

[Bob Hiller]

You want to give him a hug, don't you?

[Justin Holcomb]

We got to look at the criteria here. If we really dislike the person's philosophy, but we give him high marks on being a really brilliant, formative thinker, does that change things, or.

[Bob Hiller]

So I think we're. I think we're going on theologians.

[Mike Horton]

So as you said, you're saved by grace. And I don't really mean what we mean by it actually, like the right formula. Because of everything else, I'm like. I think to me, I'm good with the D. Yeah, but that's like saying.

[Bob Hiller]

Joseph Smith said, Jesus is God's son, like the reality.

[Walter Strickland]

So we have to.

[Justin Holcomb]

That's true.

[Walter Strickland]

He was pointing towards different stuff.

[Mike Horton]

So I just think he's not as bad as Schleiermacher.

[Justin Holcomb]

Yeah, well, he can't.

[Bob Hiller]

All right, we'll go with DF all right. Henri de Luba.

[Justin Holcomb]

Oh, yeah. Definitely put him up there with a B.

[Mike Horton]

Who?

[Bob Hiller]

Henri de Lubac.

[Justin Holcomb]

Henry de Lubac.

[Walter Strickland]

Oh, yeah.

[Justin Holcomb]

The nouvelle theologies, 20th century. So for people who don't know, Dalubach was really influential in reviving interest. Everyone's talking about Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, and had different views of Thomas Aquinas, but he actually revived interest in the early Latin theologians, like the ones like Ambrose there in the top in the A column.

[Bob Hiller]

Next one. Herman Bovink. See, there you go.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah. I would say he's definitely the systematizer of what Kuyper began. And not necessarily. Yeah, so I say what? He began on purpose. Because he didn't just systematize Kuiper, he improved Kuiper.

[Justin Holcomb]

He did.

[Walter Strickland]

He did.

[Mike Horton]

He's.

[Justin Holcomb]

He's. He's my homeboy.

[Bob Hiller]

Wow. It's Michael's homeboy. All right, here we go. This might be Justin's homeboy. Hans Urs Von. Balthazar.

[Justin Holcomb]

Yeah, Balthazar. Same with Dalubach. They were buddies.

[Mike Horton]

Yeah, they were.

[Bob Hiller]

Yeah. I'm.

[Mike Horton]

I'm fine with that.

[Walter Strickland]

Same work.

[Mike Horton]

Why would he be my buddy?

[Bob Hiller]

I don't know. He's just trying to move things.

[Mike Horton]

Okay.

[Bob Hiller]

Here's my homie. Athanasius. Superior.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah.

[Justin Holcomb]

Oh, no question.

[Mike Horton]

Yeah.

[Bob Hiller]

There's not even, like, a conversation.

[Walter Strickland]

All right, so out of fishing. Antinations.

[Justin Holcomb]

By the way.

[Mike Horton]

What did you say?

[Walter Strickland]

How to fish. Named Athanasius. I just wanted to.

[Mike Horton]

I just wanted to contribute. I heard you say fish, and I thought I didn't hear him correctly.

[Bob Hiller]

You know what? That was a superior pet. Next one.

[Justin Holcomb]

Athanasius. Athanasius. Athanasius. Okay.

[Bob Hiller]

Emmanuel Kant.

[Justin Holcomb]

Oh, my gosh. I mean, theologian folks.

[Bob Hiller]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Walter Strickland]

I mean, I don't know if we can do. I don't know how we can do anything else.

[Justin Holcomb]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Bob Hiller]

I think he's responsible for a lot of problems.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah.

[Host]

In a world drowning in confusion and false teaching, faithful voices have never been more critical. For 35 years, Sola Media has stood as that voice, helping Christians to know what you believe and why you believe. It's. But we're not just looking back. We're looking ahead to the millions who still need to hear the gospel proclaimed clearly and defended boldly. Will you join us in this critical work? Your generous support will help us expand our apologetics content to reach seekers and strengthen believers, enhance our digital platforms to engage younger generations where they are, and strengthen partnerships that multiply our gospel impact to fuel another 35 years of reformation and hearts, homes and churches, visit solarmedia.org Reformation and Give. Today.

[Bob Hiller]

I'm gonna say his name wrong, so forgive me. Jacob. Bomi Bohma. Yep.

[Justin Holcomb]

But I like your pronunciation better. Bomi Jacob Bohme. Absolute crazy.

[Bob Hiller]

Yeah. Weird.

[Mike Horton]

Really weird.

[Justin Holcomb]

Cobbler who turned. Who should have stayed a cobbler. He would have enriched the world more.

[Mike Horton]

He's a Lutheran, so you know that.

[Justin Holcomb]

But like. But like, a Lutheran who hated.

[Bob Hiller]

I'm going C or D. Like, he's bizarre.

[Justin Holcomb]

Psychopath. Yeah, he's actually really interesting, but in a weird way. By the way, you know, Hegel called him the first German philosopher.

[Bob Hiller]

Did he smile when he said it because Hegel doesn't look like a smiley guy.

[Justin Holcomb]

No, but Hagel. Hagel wrote so much on Jacob Bohma drawing on him. Bohma really is responsible for a lot of Hegel's thought.

[Bob Hiller]

Wow. So, yeah. D. All right.

[Mike Horton]

Are we putting D or C?

[Bob Hiller]

D or C? I mean, I'd go D. I'd go D also, because he's not.

[Mike Horton]

Okay.

[Justin Holcomb]

He's not confessional. Yeah.

[Bob Hiller]

He's Arminius.

[Justin Holcomb]

Well, yeah, never mind Arminius. I would put Dude.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah.

[Bob Hiller]

Yeah.

[Justin Holcomb]

D or F. But I don't know. You're a Lutheran, Bob. You might put him in a C. I don't know.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah, I wouldn't.

[Justin Holcomb]

Kidding. I can't believe you didn't jump right in.

[Mike Horton]

I'm good with C. I mean, really.

[Walter Strickland]

Why, Justin? Why C?

[Mike Horton]

I'm just trying because he actually said orthodox things about, you know, Nicene Creed. Chalcedon did not deviate. That's. That's worth something.

[Justin Holcomb]

All of his followers did.

[Bob Hiller]

Yeah, he's.

[Mike Horton]

I'm going.

[Bob Hiller]

He's not F, because those guys aren't hardly Christian. But Arminus is. Dear C. Definitely not.

[Mike Horton]

I said dear C. I was just saying.

[Walter Strickland]

I thought you said C. Let's go.

[Mike Horton]

D. I did say C. All right, next. You know, you can do whatever you want.

[Bob Hiller]

I don't know if you guys. If you guys don't know who this is, this is great. Bo Geertz. Guys know Bo Geertz?

[Justin Holcomb]

Yeah.

[Mike Horton]

No, he's the Lutheran Hammer of God guy.

[Bob Hiller]

Hammer of God. Yeah.

[Justin Holcomb]

But he's like. He was seminal.

[Bob Hiller]

Yeah, But I'd put him a. I would personally put him A. Because he's been significant for me. But he was like the Swedish CS Lewis, atheist guy who converts to Christianity. He's got a book called Thus Fell the Lord's Fire, which are the greatest seminary, like, we're sending you out to be pastors kind of sermons that he was preaching to two people. I mean, they're just phenomenal. This guy's wonderful. I. I give him an A.

[Justin Holcomb]

Well, then we're going.

[Bob Hiller]

Is necessary reading.

[Justin Holcomb]

Oh, it is really good.

[Bob Hiller]

Chrisostom, or however he's pronounced.

[Justin Holcomb]

Oh, yeah. Gotta make him superior.

[Bob Hiller]

Yeah.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah.

[Justin Holcomb]

Notice a theme here. Kind of they're. They're all in duds.

[Bob Hiller]

Yeah, it's great. It's nice.

[Justin Holcomb]

That's. To make Justin happy.

[Mike Horton]

Wait, hold on. I just want. I just want to take a. A moment here. I like the fact. I appreciate that his anthropology and sin. Clear, but a little synergistic. And Mike, that Was a very gracious one. I thought you'd be going for a. To put him in superior. And I'm not challenging it. There are things in there. The fact that Calvin quoted him a ton. I respect it because Calvin quoted him a lot.

[Justin Holcomb]

He said he was his favorite preacher of the early fathers, which is kind of Calvin.

[Mike Horton]

Calvin loved him all the time, but disagreed with him on some stuff, which I just like seeing that synergism.

[Justin Holcomb]

Well, what you get with Chrysostom is actually more than any church father, clear teaching on justification and yet synergism. So he's like Philip Melanchthon kind of.

[Bob Hiller]

Yep.

[Walter Strickland]

Great preacher too.

[Bob Hiller]

All right, here we go.

[Walter Strickland]

Cold mouthed. Yeah.

[Bob Hiller]

Speaking of Goldenmouth, the next one. John Calvin.

[Justin Holcomb]

Well, you know what I'm gonna say.

[Walter Strickland]

I'll let you guys.

[Bob Hiller]

So how many problems started with Calvinism, though? That's kind of an interesting question.

[Justin Holcomb]

Well, we'll talk about that in a future show Calvin.

[Bob Hiller]

I'm sure we're going extra.

[Justin Holcomb]

Calvin cleaned everything up. You guys made a mess.

[Bob Hiller]

I know that's what he said.

[Mike Horton]

If we're doing all of us, I mean, the superiors are obvious. And I'm comfortable with an A. I think he's a superior, but I'm comfortable with A. I don't know how this works out with four.

[Bob Hiller]

So here's the deal again with. With Calvin, I would say the same thing. There are few people this significant in the history of Christianity, especially Western Christianity. He should be a superior theologian. He just is.

[Mike Horton]

I'm with you.

[Justin Holcomb]

That came from Bob.

[Bob Hiller]

I'm not saying.

[Justin Holcomb]

Justin, you should be ashamed of yourself.

[Mike Horton]

I was making him say it.

[Justin Holcomb]

Yeah.

[Bob Hiller]

All right, all right.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah.

[Justin Holcomb]

If.

[Mike Horton]

If I accepted I was playing inception.

[Bob Hiller]

Here's what I got in mind. Rod used to say you got Calvin and Luther and Wesley and Rome. And so that's what's in my head. So I'll do that. All right, Next. John Milton. John. John Milton.

[Justin Holcomb]

Oh, my gosh.

[Bob Hiller]

Delightful writer.

[Justin Holcomb]

D.

[Walter Strickland]

I love that compliment, Bob. A great writer.

[Justin Holcomb]

Yeah. He was a great poet, but had a horrible Christology. Was a radical puritan nut bowl. But what a writer, man.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah, Paradise Moss is fantastic.

[Bob Hiller]

C. All right. John Owen.

[Justin Holcomb]

Oh, wow.

[Mike Horton]

Yeah, man.

[Justin Holcomb]

He's definitely in the A league.

[Bob Hiller]

When I was in college, I had to do. Rod used to have us do outlines. Rod Rosenblatt used to have us do outlines. And I had to outline the introduction to the death of death and the death of Christ. And my outline was longer than the introduction, so I didn't get a good Grade.

[Mike Horton]

We put him in A, right? Yeah.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah, I think that's good.

[Bob Hiller]

This becomes interesting based off of our reasoning. John Wesley. I would say B. Yeah, let's go.

[Walter Strickland]

B. Yeah, I like B.

[Bob Hiller]

Significant, problematic, but significant.

[Walter Strickland]

Yes. Kind of like Finney.

[Bob Hiller]

I'm just playing Jonathan Edwards.

[Mike Horton]

This is going to be interesting because I'm having a hard time because if I'm. If I'm given. We're given Schleiermacher an F for some of his pantheism, and Edwards, the implications of some of his stuff is problematic.

[Bob Hiller]

And I'm going C or B. Yeah.

[Justin Holcomb]

Yeah, let's go C. Okay.

[Mike Horton]

Ooh, bold move.

[Bob Hiller]

Edwards is the father, like the great American theologian, which isn't a compliment. All right, next. Carl F.H. henry.

[Walter Strickland]

I mean, I need to show up for the Baptist in the room. So I would give him an.

[Bob Hiller]

I'm going A, because for a while, what he was doing with Christianity today was very important. He did some good stuff. I would. I'd go A. I was definitely.

[Justin Holcomb]

I would, too. I would.

[Mike Horton]

We're doing accomplishments as part of Gordon Conwell.

[Bob Hiller]

I don't know.

[Mike Horton]

Yeah, okay. I mean, I'm good. Hey, I don't really. Like. Maybe I'm ignorant. I don't. He doesn't feel like an A lister to me.

[Bob Hiller]

All right, fair enough.

[Mike Horton]

But I also don't do that. I don't know if he's a Kierkegaard. I think he's better than Kierkegaard.

[Bob Hiller]

I'm with. I'm with Justin on this, actually. He doesn't have the A feel. He's more of a B.

[Walter Strickland]

That's very existential of you, Bob.

[Bob Hiller]

Yeah. Speaking of that, Carl Barth or Bart.

[Walter Strickland]

I think B. Yeah.

[Mike Horton]

Very comfortable with B. Yeah, me too.

[Bob Hiller]

Meister Eckhart.

[Justin Holcomb]

F. Best.

[Bob Hiller]

I'll say this, all these old paintings, he's the best looking guy. Very nicely.

[Justin Holcomb]

It's not hard to. Yeah.

[Bob Hiller]

Yeah, I'm down D or F. I'm not a nice fan.

[Mike Horton]

Okay. But with. With. With nicene. Chalcedonian stuff. He even. He was a little wonky with it, but he wasn't like aggressively heretically with it, was he?

[Bob Hiller]

Yeah, I'll go, too.

[Justin Holcomb]

Pretty much. No, Hard to be a pantheist and chalced at the same time, but.

[Bob Hiller]

So.

[Mike Horton]

I'm just trying to find D categories. I. For some reason, I'm drawn to putting people in D. You feel.

[Bob Hiller]

You feel bad for some of these guys?

[Mike Horton]

I do.

[Bob Hiller]

Here's one. Justin Menno Simons, who I think would be A great name for a fish, Walter.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah. Yeah. That's it, actually is.

[Mike Horton]

I think he would.

[Justin Holcomb]

He would drown. You mean drown.

[Mike Horton]

As a theologian, I'm good with C. I think it's.

[Walter Strickland]

I was.

[Mike Horton]

I was.

[Walter Strickland]

I feel like I should put it as a B, just because of, you know, my affiliation. But I think C is good.

[Bob Hiller]

I. I wait, you're. He's a Mennonite. He's like the Mennonite. He's meno of the men.

[Walter Strickland]

Well.

[Justin Holcomb]

And he hated. He hated the doctrines of grace.

[Bob Hiller]

So I'm. I'm not a fan. I'm going D.

[Justin Holcomb]

Yeah. He was not a Calvinistic Baptist.

[Walter Strickland]

No, he was not. He was definitely a General Baptist, but.

[Bob Hiller]

All right, next. Boethius.

[Justin Holcomb]

Yeah, I'd say a very important, but not. But more important for philosophy, I think philosophical theology, then, you know, dogmatics.

[Bob Hiller]

But he does look like he should be in the. Like a hobbit book or something like.

[Mike Horton]

Yeah.

[Justin Holcomb]

Or. Or a circus.

[Mike Horton]

Yeah. And I. I'd be. I'd be okay with lower. What do we put him at?

[Bob Hiller]

A. Yeah, he's got him at A. Yeah. I say let's go B.

[Mike Horton]

There's a. There's a few of. You know, I'm thinking gospel. I don't know what categories you guys use. I'm going. I'm going through content, gospel, anthropology, and sin.

[Justin Holcomb]

Well, there's no gospel really in Boethius.

[Mike Horton]

Yes. That's why I didn't think there's that influence. A. But theology for ranking him as a theologian.

[Justin Holcomb]

Well. And we lost tons of his stuff, so we don't know. Maybe he did talk about the gospel.

[Bob Hiller]

I will say this just by. Because we lost some of his stuff. So we don't know. Is the same thing my confirmation students say to me when they didn't do the work. So I give him a C now.

[Mike Horton]

All right, I'm going for B. What do you guys think?

[Walter Strickland]

I would say. I would say B. If he be. If there was gospel, it should be more prevalent.

[Bob Hiller]

Origin.

[Justin Holcomb]

Oh, my. The Fs of all Fs.

[Walter Strickland]

Mike has spoken. And I agree.

[Bob Hiller]

I'm not a. I'm not a. Not an origin guy.

[Mike Horton]

I could give. I could give him higher. I. I'm just happy he had better days than.

[Bob Hiller]

He had better days than Kant, maybe we call him.

[Mike Horton]

Yeah, he. Okay.

[Bob Hiller]

All right. This next one will be also kind of tricky. Maybe not Tillich. Paul Tillich. I go low on him. Yeah.

[Walter Strickland]

The courage to be.

[Mike Horton]

I'm happy to give him a D. But if he hasn't Put him in F. That's fine.

[Justin Holcomb]

I mean, I think I was putting the Pantheon. I think pantheism is kind of your line in the sand for Fs. He's a pantheist, so.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah.

[Justin Holcomb]

Peter Lombard, wouldn't you say? He's A.

[Bob Hiller]

He's a B. I'd give him a C, I think. I think.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah.

[Bob Hiller]

His impact on theology is negative, but he did a lot of work. I. I'm just not. Yeah, it does look like he's wearing high heels in that picture.

[Justin Holcomb]

If you can. Every medieval theologian. Every medieval theologian had to write a commentary on his systematic theology called the Sentences in order to get a master's degree.

[Walter Strickland]

That's unbelievable.

[Bob Hiller]

John Henry Newman.

[Justin Holcomb]

C or D?

[Mike Horton]

I'm good.

[Bob Hiller]

I'm good with that. Francis Pieper. Oh, Francis Pieper, the theologian of confessional American Lutheranism.

[Justin Holcomb]

So we're A. Grady's C. He is.

[Bob Hiller]

An A, if not superior. I'll go A. Charles Hodge.

[Justin Holcomb]

Yeah.

[Walter Strickland]

A. I'm comfortable with A.

[Justin Holcomb]

Any objection? He's the peeper.

[Bob Hiller]

He's the P. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mike Horton]

I want to go back to Newman. I mean, see, that just doesn't feel right. I mean, if you go through all.

[Bob Hiller]

Again, didn't he abandon your fellowship for the Catholic Church?

[Justin Holcomb]

Okay, Newman, are you a closet papist?

[Walter Strickland]

Justin, you know, it's. No, it's a slippery slope is what I hear.

[Mike Horton]

I don't have a miter with me right here.

[Justin Holcomb]

I don't think that, you know, I'll just say that I don't think Newman was an important theologian. I think he was an important convert and apologist for Rome. And I think he was an important developer of a totally erroneous view of the development of doctrine. And those are accomplishments, but I don't know that. Would you say, Justin, that he was a formative theologian?

[Mike Horton]

No, I'm going based on content, not influence. I'm going based on. Okay, we've got.

[Justin Holcomb]

Yeah, okay.

[Mike Horton]

Trinity. Christology means.

[Justin Holcomb]

Nice scene.

[Mike Horton]

Just the basics. That, to me, if you can. If you don't cross your fingers with a Nicene Creed, you start as a C. And if you say some other things that are, like, decent, it bumps you up.

[Bob Hiller]

That's the most Anglican defense I've ever heard in my.

[Mike Horton]

What's happening here is I'm an Anglican, and so I'm Is showing by these perspectives.

[Bob Hiller]

We've got to. We've got to move, guys. We got 17 in, like, five minutes. All right, here we go. Philip Melanchthon. It's an S. Or an A. You guys just get to decide which.

[Mike Horton]

Are you sure?

[Justin Holcomb]

Really?

[Bob Hiller]

Yeah, I put him at an A because he wrote, like, the foundational confessional document of the Reformation.

[Justin Holcomb]

He and Calvin were best friends, so I, I. For both of those reasons.

[Bob Hiller]

Yeah. Turreton.

[Justin Holcomb]

Oh, gosh, I don't know how you don't give him an A. Those other guys.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah, I would say. Yeah, I'd say A as well, actually.

[Justin Holcomb]

Turreton was superior as the kind of a summarizer of reformed orthodoxy.

[Mike Horton]

Where'd we put Bob Inck. We put Bob Inc.

[Justin Holcomb]

In an A. Yeah, we put him in an A. If you have Vermili up there in Superior. I think Turretin's one of those watershed guys. Kind of like Chemnitz is for you guys. Bob.

[Bob Hiller]

So that would be superior than.

[Justin Holcomb]

Yeah, I think so.

[Bob Hiller]

Richard Baxter. D. I'm happy with that.

[Mike Horton]

Yeah. My default was, again, this. Because the gospel clarity is problematic. You gave him D. Because I was.

[Justin Holcomb]

Thinking C. He really messed up. Justification. It's sort of like, you know, other than that. Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? So.

[Bob Hiller]

All right. Elias Camp Morris.

[Walter Strickland]

He was the founding president of National Baptist Convention, so he was. I think it's fantastic. I would say anthropology is great. Gospel is on point. He wasn't really much of a theologian. He was a dominational leader. And so he didn't write a ton of theological works, but in his letters and things like that, I put him as an A.

[Bob Hiller]

Okay.

[Justin Holcomb]

Formative. Formative influence to preach Christ.

[Walter Strickland]

Formative influence. Yeah.

[Bob Hiller]

Augustine.

[Justin Holcomb]

S. Oh, I think you got to make him S. Yeah.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah.

[Bob Hiller]

I don't.

[Walter Strickland]

Probably don't.

[Justin Holcomb]

Yeah.

[Mike Horton]

Cowering. Yep.

[Bob Hiller]

Irenaeus.

[Justin Holcomb]

Yes. Plus S. Plus Wow.

[Bob Hiller]

S plus Jerome. I go A. Because of. Yeah, Yeah.

[Justin Holcomb]

I go definitely A. Definitely A. Yeah.

[Bob Hiller]

He just mistranslates some things that are.

[Justin Holcomb]

Significant, you know, the whole justification issue.

[Bob Hiller]

But Justin Martyr.

[Mike Horton]

Yeah.

[Justin Holcomb]

A, A or superior. What do you think?

[Bob Hiller]

Yeah, I'd go A. Or. Yeah, he's really good. Yeah.

[Mike Horton]

He's at least A. Yeah. Yeah.

[Walter Strickland]

I would say A. I'm comfortable with that.

[Bob Hiller]

Or better C.I. schofield.

[Walter Strickland]

D. The good old reference Bible.

[Bob Hiller]

Who needs. Who needs a Bible when you have the notes? All right.

[Walter Strickland]

D. Yeah, I would say I'm no dispensationalist, but.

[Mike Horton]

Yeah, dispensationalism doesn't.

[Walter Strickland]

But. But I would say, though, that he did push people towards the Scripture and. And away from a lot of really bad interpretive practice.

[Justin Holcomb]

Oh, but he pushed people toward his notes.

[Mike Horton]

He did. But I mean. D Sounds. That sounds intense for Someone who's completely orthodox, it sounds like.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah. I would say intentionally.

[Bob Hiller]

I would definitely say C. So D. C is good.

[Mike Horton]

Okay.

[Justin Holcomb]

Okay.

[Mike Horton]

I could even go higher, but that's Martin Luther.

[Justin Holcomb]

Superior.

[Walter Strickland]

He's all right.

[Mike Horton]

Of course.

[Bob Hiller]

I just want to point out that when Caleb put this list together.

[Justin Holcomb]

Yeah.

[Bob Hiller]

Luther wasn't there, and I had to, like, remind him.

[Justin Holcomb]

All right. It's like we take him for granted.

[Bob Hiller]

He's superior. Yeah.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah, he's definitely superior. I was. I was gonna respond to him being an A.

[Bob Hiller]

There's actually another category up called Luther Next. Aquinas. I. I think you have to put Aquinas as an A or an S. Oh, yeah.

[Justin Holcomb]

I. I'd say an S. There's nobody.

[Bob Hiller]

More formative in Catholic theology than Augustine, I suppose, Than. Than him. So.

[Justin Holcomb]

Yeah.

[Bob Hiller]

Beza.

[Walter Strickland]

Good old Theodore.

[Justin Holcomb]

A.

[Mike Horton]

A. Yeah.

[Bob Hiller]

Cranmer.

[Justin Holcomb]

Definitely. Cranmer.

[Bob Hiller]

Cranmer.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah.

[Mike Horton]

Where'd you guys put him?

[Bob Hiller]

S. No, I don't know. Where did they put him?

[Justin Holcomb]

Well, you know, if our. Also. If our. If our categories are not only, you know, great theologians, which he certainly was, but great preachers and great prayers, he should be superior in his book.

[Bob Hiller]

Yeah, yeah. The Book of Common Prayer matters like.

[Mike Horton]

It's Luther and Calvin and superior. Then he has to be there.

[Bob Hiller]

All right. William of Occam.

[Walter Strickland]

You gotta spit on the floor at least. I mean, apologetically. No.

[Bob Hiller]

I don't know. You know, there's some things in Occam. All right, I'll go. I'll go. Seer.

[Justin Holcomb]

Occam's the father of the nominalist philosophy. Luther hated stuff about.

[Bob Hiller]

Well, yeah, but there's also.

[Mike Horton]

He's not average.

[Bob Hiller]

Yeah.

[Mike Horton]

He is below average.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah.

[Bob Hiller]

All right.

[Mike Horton]

If Wesley's there, Occam's below Wesley for me.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah. So, yeah.

[Bob Hiller]

Are we at D?

[Walter Strickland]

Is where we landed.

[Mike Horton]

Yeah, I'm fine.

[Walter Strickland]

I'm okay with that.

[Bob Hiller]

Charles Octavius Booth.

[Walter Strickland]

Oh, this is one of my contributions, I would say, because of where he stood in history. A, maybe because of his contribution. B, just because it was. I wish he had more, but at the same time, I would probably lean A just because I think. I hope he's gonna end up having his say in the grander story because of things getting republished.

[Mike Horton]

Good.

[Bob Hiller]

All right, my next one down I have, after Booth is Martin Chemnitz.

[Justin Holcomb]

Definitely. Definitely. Don't you think Superior?

[Bob Hiller]

Could I put superior for the Lutheran Reformation? Luther is the father. Chemnitz is the theologian of the Lutheran Reformation. The other Luther, he's.

[Justin Holcomb]

I mean, the other Martin.

[Bob Hiller]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Horton]

Superior. Okay.

[Bob Hiller]

If we put Vermele up there at Superior, then put Chemnitz next to him and have him hug.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah.

[Justin Holcomb]

Which they. They almost certainly would have done.

[Bob Hiller]

Spurgeon.

[Walter Strickland]

The urge to spurge.

[Justin Holcomb]

I would say.

[Walter Strickland]

I would say a. I mean, I need to get reformed badges in there. Okay.

[Bob Hiller]

Moonster. Moonster.

[Justin Holcomb]

Thomas Muenster.

[Mike Horton]

Thomas F. Is he a pantheist?

[Justin Holcomb]

Yes, he was a pantheist.

[Mike Horton]

Okay. I'm just making sure.

[Justin Holcomb]

Yes.

[Bob Hiller]

All right, last one. This one's fun one, dad. Rod. Ron Rosenblatt.

[Justin Holcomb]

Superior plus.

[Bob Hiller]

Superior plus.

[Mike Horton]

Yeah.

[Bob Hiller]

That guy is why we. Why I preach Christ crucified. Yep.

[Walter Strickland]

Yeah, that's. That's a great way to end.

[Bob Hiller]

Yep. Pretty good, gentlemen. I hope that was fun. What happens now is we put this online, and then everyone criticizes us for the way we did. They. They criticize the order. We have the science behind it. It's. This is. The fun has just begun, gentlemen.

[Host]

So.

[Mike Horton]

I can't wait.

[Justin Holcomb]

I can't wait.

[Bob Hiller]

I hope that was as fun for you as it was for us. See you next time at Whitehorse Inn.

[Host]

Thanks for listening to this production of Sola Media. If you enjoyed this episode, would you share it with someone you think would benefit from it? Your support helps us spread the riches of the Reformation and apply historic Christian theology to every area of life.