Introducing White Hot Hate Season 2: Agent Pale Horse - White Hot Hate: Agent Pale Horse

Summary5 min read

Podcast Summary: White Hot Hate Season 2 – Agent Pale Horse

Episode: Introducing White Hot Hate Season 2: Agent Pale Horse
Release Date: March 18, 2025
Host: Michelle Shephard
Featured Guest: Special Agent Scott Payne (Alias: Agent Pale Horse)
Production: CBC Podcast Series

Introduction to Season 2

In the much-anticipated second season of White Hot Hate, host Michelle Shephard delves deeper into the harrowing world of undercover operations with Special Agent Scott Payne, also known by his codename Agent Pale Horse. This season promises an unfiltered exploration of Agent Payne's 28-year-long undercover career, during which he infiltrated some of the most dangerous and clandestine groups, including outlaw biker gangs, drug cartels, and international neo-Nazi networks intent on sparking a race war.

A Life Undercover

Michelle Shephard opens the episode by setting the stage for Agent Payne's intense and often perilous work environment:

Agent Pale Horse (00:08): "Don't move. Get on the car. Be cool, be cool. They came surrounded. Boom. They just jumped out. And they arrested me, too. Slammed my head off the side of the car. Stand behind your back. And I was like, dad, gum, man. Don't y'all know I'm undercover?"

Agent Payne recounts a vivid memory of an unexpected arrest, highlighting the constant dangers faced while operating undercover. He describes moments where his true identity as an FBI agent was nearly exposed, emphasizing the fragile line he walked between his real self and his undercover persona.

Michelle Shephard (00:35): "It was his name. That part is true."

The verification of his alias underscores the meticulous care required in maintaining his cover identity.

Infiltrating Extremist Groups

The episode delves into the complexities of Agent Payne’s missions with extremist organizations. He shares insights into his interactions with gang members and neo-Nazis, revealing the strategies employed to gain their trust and extract critical information.

Agent Pale Horse (01:17): "He's like, man, I've got heart. I've got the heart. And he wanted to do something in the style of Dylann Roof, but on a grander scale."

This quote illustrates the alarming ambitions of the individuals Agent Payne encountered and the depth of violence he was combating from within these groups.

Psychological Toll of Undercover Work

A significant portion of the episode focuses on the psychological impact of living a double life. Agent Payne discusses the constant vigilance required and the personal sacrifices made to protect his identity and mission.

Agent Pale Horse (02:00): "Everything you see is like clicks, like, click, click, time dilation. You can feel your heart beating. You get a little sweaty, your hamstrings get weak trying to figure out, hey, is this it? Am I gonna die right now?"

This candid reflection reveals the intense stress and fear inherent in undercover operations, shedding light on the mental resilience needed to sustain such a career.

Maintaining Personal Relationships

Maintaining personal relationships while undercover poses another layer of challenge. Agent Payne touches upon how his professional obligations strained his family life and the emotional barriers he had to erect to safeguard his mission.

Agent Pale Horse (02:22): "Here's what I tell people when they ask me, like, how did you cope living with an undercover? And I said, well, I did get some training through the movie of Donnie Brasco. That was my training."

Referencing the film "Donnie Brasco," Agent Payne humorously yet poignantly underscores the blurred lines between reality and performance in his undercover role, emphasizing the isolation and identity fragmentation that comes with such work.

Insights into the Growth of Extremist Movements

Agent Payne offers a sobering perspective on the rise of extremist movements in recent years. He discusses the increasing capacity for violence within these groups and the broader implications for societal safety.

Agent Pale Horse (02:47): "Am I going to say that this is the worst threat in the world and Nazis are going to be on your doorstep tomorrow? No. But are these people capable of being violent? And is it a movement that has been growing? Yes."

This statement serves as a critical warning about the potential for escalating violence and the sustained growth of extremist ideologies, highlighting the ongoing relevance and urgency of law enforcement efforts in this domain.

Conclusion and Upcoming Content

Michelle Shephard concludes the episode by reaffirming the significance of Agent Payne’s contributions and the vital narratives that White Hot Hate Season 2 aims to bring to the forefront. The season promises to offer listeners an unprecedented look into the clandestine operations that thwart domestic terrorism and hate-fueled violence.

Michelle Shephard (03:00): "Yes, it has, Agent Palehorse. The second season of White Hot Hate, available now everywhere you get your podcasts."

White Hot Hate Season 2 not only serves as an exposé of extremist networks but also honors the relentless dedication of agents like Scott Payne, whose undercover work is instrumental in maintaining national security.

Additional Information

Related Book: The season is produced alongside the book Code Name: Pale Horse: How I Went Undercover to Expose America's Nazis, co-authored by Scott Payne and Michelle Shephard, offering an expanded narrative of Agent Payne's undercover experiences.
Availability: The second season of White Hot Hate is available on all major podcast platforms as of March 18, 2025. For more CBC podcasts, visit CBC Podcasts.

Notable Quotes:

Agent Pale Horse (00:08): "Don't move. Get on the car. Be cool, be cool..."
Michelle Shephard (00:35): "It was his name. That part is true."
Agent Pale Horse (02:00): "Everything you see is like clicks, like, click, click..."
Agent Pale Horse (02:47): "Am I going to say that this is the worst threat in the world... Yes."

This episode sets the tone for a gripping and insightful exploration of undercover operations against hate-driven extremism, offering listeners a rare glimpse into the shadows where Agent Pale Horse operated to safeguard society from some of its most dangerous threats.

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Transcript19 lines

[00:02]
Michelle Shepherd
This is a CBC podcast.
[00:09]
Agent Palehorse
Don't move. Get on the car. Be cool, be cool. They came surrounded. Boom. They just jumped out. And they arrested me, too. Slammed my head off the side of the car. Stand behind your back. And I was like, dad, gum, man. Don't y'all know I'm undercover? I'll call him Scott. Cause that's what he said his name was. But I'm sure that's not his name.
[00:36]
Michelle Shepherd
It was his name. That part is true.
[00:40]
Agent Palehorse
I asked him, I said, scott, you FBI? He said, no. No, man. He denied it.
[00:48]
Michelle Shepherd
Mm. Yeah, he was FBI. FBI. Special Agent Scott Payne, UC 3415.
[00:56]
Agent Palehorse
It is 4:21, 2017. It's approximately 4:30 p Central Time. I will be heading to the United Clans of America rally.
[01:08]
Michelle Shepherd
What's it like to work undercover for years to infiltrate the KKK or deal with wannabe mass murderers?
[01:18]
Agent Palehorse
He's like, man, I've got heart. I've got the heart. And he wanted to do something in the style of Dylann Roof, but on a grander scale.
[01:27]
Michelle Shepherd
Or to spend your days and nights with violent bikers.
[01:31]
Agent Palehorse
I can't just walk over there into a sea of testosterone and leather and say, hey, you guys ride?
[01:37]
Michelle Shepherd
And eventually some of them become your friends.
[01:42]
Agent Palehorse
I was worried about him. I was worried about his emotional state. He's married, he had kids. He's with gang members. Then after a while, you see his personality. It changes.
[01:55]
Michelle Shepherd
What does it do to you as a person to always be scanning for threats?
[02:01]
Agent Palehorse
Everything you see is like clicks, like, click, click, time dilation. You can feel your heart beating. You get a little sweaty, your hamstrings get weak trying to figure out, hey, is this it? Am I gonna die right now?
[02:17]
Michelle Shepherd
What's it like to have to keep parts of your life a secret?
[02:22]
Agent Palehorse
Here's what I tell people when they ask me, like, how did you cope living with an undercover? And I said, well, I did get some training through the movie of Donnie Brasco. That was my training.
[02:35]
Michelle Shepherd
I'm Michelle shepherd on Agent Palehorse. We're going to bring you a perspective you rarely hear. An unflinching view from the inside of some of today's most dangerous movements.
[02:48]
Agent Palehorse
Am I going to say that this is the worst threat in the world and Nazis are going to be on your doorstep tomorrow? No. But are these people capable of being violent? And is it a movement that has been growing? Yes.
[03:00]
Michelle Shepherd
Yes, it has, Agent Palehorse. The second season of White Hot Hate, available now everywhere you get your podcasts. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc CA podcasts.