Season 1, Episode 1: “Save Your Race, Join The Base”

Summary

White Hot Hate: Agent Pale Horse – Season 1, Episode 1: “Save Your Race, Join The Base”

Podcast: White Hot Hate
Host/Author: CBC, Michelle Shephard
Release Date: October 26, 2021

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Introduction

In the riveting first episode of "White Hot Hate," CBC delves into the insidious world of modern extremist groups through the lens of investigative journalist Ryan Thorpe. This episode, titled “Save Your Race, Join The Base,” unpacks Thorpe’s clandestine efforts to infiltrate one of the most dangerous neo-Nazi organizations, known as The Base. Through meticulous storytelling and firsthand accounts, the episode sheds light on the alarming rise of violent white supremacist ideologies and the lengths to which individuals and institutions must go to counteract them.

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Setting the Scene: Rise of Accelerationism

Michelle Shephard opens the episode by introducing the concept of accelerationism—a strategy embraced by certain white supremacist factions aiming to expedite societal collapse through acts of chaos and violence. She explains, “Neo Nazi accelerationists believe the white race is at risk of extinction and the government is largely corrupt and will not stand up for their rights, so they can’t win through ballot boxes” (04:23). Instead, they advocate for violence to provoke political discord, forcing conservatives and fence-sitters into a survivalist frenzy reminiscent of Lord of the Flies.

Shephard contextualizes this ideology by referencing tragic real-world attacks, including the Christchurch mosque shootings, the El Paso Walmart massacre, and the Charleston church shooting, underscoring the lethal reality of these extremist beliefs.

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Meet Ryan Thorpe: The Journalist Turned Undercover Operator

Ryan Thorpe, a seasoned reporter for the Winnipeg Free Press, becomes the central figure as he responds to a concerning trend—posters emblazoned with the slogan “Save Your Race, Join The Base” appearing around Winnipeg. Assigned by his editor to investigate these signs, Thorpe embarks on a mission that would lead him dangerously close to extremist plots.

Thorpe recounts, “I was worried, am I going to be convincing enough? You know, it’s one thing to convince them over text messages and emails and even a phone call, right? Where if something had gone wrong, I’m still physically separated from these people” (17:55). This fear underscores the high stakes of his undercover work.

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The Infiltration: Creating an Alias

To penetrate The Base, Thorpe adopts the alias “Mark,” a 26-year-old university student hinting at flirtations with white nationalist ideology. He initiates contact by responding to the recruitment posters, filling out a detailed questionnaire without inflating his credentials:

“I didn't want to inflate my credentials or like lie about my background...I gave them my real age” (11:58).

The Base requires comprehensive personal information, reflecting a disturbing level of organizational bureaucracy akin to that of ISIS, as Shephard notes (11:58). This early interaction establishes the methodical nature of extremist recruitment processes.

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Building Trust: Communication with Roman Wolf

Thorpe’s persistence pays off when he communicates with a key member using the handle “Roman Wolf.” Initially, Roman engages Thorpe in conversations about the group's destructive intentions, emphasizing the need for “action” and a “white revolution” (04:32). Their exchanges reveal Roman’s commitment to inciting a race war, encapsulating the extremist mindset.

A pivotal moment occurs during a phone call at 13:38:

Roman Wolf: “We are hoping for a collapse of the current system.”

Mark (Thorpe): “No, I would agree with that...I also hold the view that we've already entered into something approximating a kind of very low intensity civil war.”

This dialogue illustrates the depth of Roman’s radicalization and the group's strategic planning for societal upheaval.

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The Critical Meeting: A Step Too Far

As communication intensifies, Roman Wolf requests an in-person meeting, escalating Thorpe’s involvement. The rendezvous is set at Whittier Park in Winnipeg, a location chosen for its accessibility and low risk. Thorpe meticulously prepares, altering his appearance by shaving his mustache and covering his tattoos to avoid detection by acquaintances (19:36).

During the meeting, Thorpe encounters Patrick, a leader within The Base, who exhibits both charisma and menacing intent. They proceed to a secluded area where Patrick unveils genuine militaristic gear and extremist paraphernalia, including:

• Military camouflage jackets
• Skull-printed face masks
• Neo-Nazi symbols

As Patrick demands a photo as proof of their meeting, Thorpe complies under duress:

“We both stand there with our arms crossed, and the photo gets taken” (24:10).

The interaction becomes increasingly tense when Patrick divulges deeply racist sentiments, revealing his personal biases and extremist ideology:

“The only problem is the child only would have been half human...having a mulatto child would have been a fucking nightmare” (28:33).

Thorpe maintains his composure, despite the shocking nature of Patrick’s revelations, showcasing his journalistic resilience.

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Escalation and Publication: The Scoop of a Lifetime

Following the successful meeting, Thorpe is swiftly pulled deeper into The Base’s operations. Despite his growing apprehensions, he decides to publish his findings, culminating in the impactful article “Homegrown Hate” on August 16, 2019 (34:02). The publication marks a significant breakthrough in exposing local extremist networks.

However, the aftermath is fraught with tension. The day after the article’s release, Thorpe receives a chilling anonymous message hinting at imminent danger:

“I think I know who Patrick is.” (34:46).

This message foreshadows the impending threat posed by The Base, highlighting the perilous balance between investigative journalism and personal safety.

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Climax: The Unfolding Threat

As The Base’s activities intensify, signs of potential violence escalate. An abandoned truck discovered near Highway 12, close to the American border, bears ominous symbols, including a swastika (35:26). This discovery underscores the imminent threat of coordinated terrorist actions harking back to infamous attacks orchestrated by extremists like Timothy McVeigh.

Thorpe reflects on the gravity of the situation:

“The danger that is posed by extreme hate...to potentially happen to other people too” (36:09).

This realization cements the importance of his investigative work, emphasizing the tangible risks posed by such extremist groups.

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Conclusion: The Broader Implications

The episode concludes by emphasizing the ongoing cultural war between nationalism and internationalism. Michelle Shephard articulates the critical nature of exposing these extremist cells, asserting:

“We are in the very beginning of a very bloody cultural war...” (05:26).

Ryan Thorpe’s undercover journey not only unveils the operational intricacies of neo-Nazi groups but also serves as a stark reminder of the persistent and evolving threats posed by extremist ideologies in modern society.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Ryan Thorpe (04:32): “Action is what is needed most in these trying times, and that action must be driven towards our white revolution.”

• Michelle Shephard (04:23): “Neo Nazi accelerationists believe the white race is at risk of extinction and the government is largely corrupt and will not stand up for their rights…”

• Ryan Thorpe (11:58): “I didn’t want to inflate my credentials or like lie about my background… So I gave them my real age.”

• Ryan Thorpe (13:38): “We are hoping for a collapse of the current system.”

• Patrick (26:08): “He was saying things like, ‘Oh, they’re responsible for surveying, like, the field of battle…’”

• Ryan Thorpe (29:36): “Yeah, it was a pretty shocking comment. And I think I tried to just like not address it throughout the entirety of the reporting process…”

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Key Takeaways

• Infiltration Risks: The episode highlights the immense personal and professional risks journalists like Ryan Thorpe undertake to expose extremist groups.

• Organizational Structure: The Base’s methodical recruitment and operational strategies mirror those of international terrorist organizations, emphasizing the sophistication of modern extremist movements.

• Psychological Toll: Thorpe’s experiences underscore the psychological challenges faced by undercover operatives, navigating dangerous ideologies while maintaining their cover.

• Urgency of Investigation: The tangible threats posed by groups like The Base necessitate urgent and relentless investigative efforts to prevent potential acts of domestic terrorism.

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Conclusion

“Save Your Race, Join The Base” serves as a powerful introductory episode to "White Hot Hate," setting the stage for an in-depth exploration of extremist violence and the brave individuals striving to combat it from within. Through meticulous reporting and compelling narrative, CBC underscores the critical importance of vigilance and proactive measures in the face of rising hate-fueled violence.

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Note: This summary excludes advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections as per the guidelines, focusing solely on the substantive discussions and narratives presented in the episode.

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Timestamps Reference

For ease of navigation, key timestamps referenced in this summary correspond to specific moments in the transcript provided.

• 04:23
• 04:32
• 11:58
• 13:38
• 17:55
• 19:36
• 24:10
• 26:33
• 28:33
• 29:36
• 34:02
• 34:46
• 35:26
• 36:09

Transcript

[Michelle Shepherd]

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[Ryan Thorpe]

Voice memo. I'm gonna try and get out everything I can remember off the top of my head because the meeting just ended and I didn't record it.

[Michelle Shepherd]

It's the summer of 2019, and this is Ryan Thorpe, a reporter for the Winnipeg Free Press. He's just had what could be the biggest interview of his career, but he couldn't take notes. So he's jogging home fast, recording on his phone everything he can remember.

[Ryan Thorpe]

He's about 5, 10, lives in Bossier, has for a couple of years, grew up in the country, used to live in Winnipeg. We spoke for like an hour and a half. There's so much. He ranted with homophobic and racist language. He's anti Semitic. He likes to talk. He talked about fermenting a race war. He talked about derailing a train that we were nearby, sabotaging train tracks. He is a violent excuse.

[Michelle Shepherd]

The man Ryan just met, basically, he described himself as a neo Nazi. He talked about derailing a train and fomenting a race war. Ryan didn't know the man's identity. And the man did not know that Ryan was a journalist.

[Ryan Thorpe]

He talked about the importance of keeping information siloed and that there is no discussion in the main chat room of any upcoming training camps until after they happen. But there's no discussion of them prior to the events themselves because they're worried that there might be a journalist infiltrating the group. I could have recorded the whole fucking conversation. He wouldn't even know.

[Michelle Shepherd]

I'm Michelle shepherd, and this is White hot Hate. Episode 1 Save youe Race. Join the Base. Have you heard of the term accelerationism? It's not widely known, but in recent years, the ideology has taken root among white supremacists. Basically, an accelerationist is someone who revels in chaos. They want governments and society to collapse. And one way they believe they will is if they accelerate it. Through acts of violence. Here's their thinking. Neo Nazi accelerationists believe the white race is at risk of extinction and the government is largely corrupt and will not stand up for their rights, so they can't win through ballot boxes. But they think violence can set off a series of reactions that will sow political discord. Those in the political center, who they call fence sitters, will be forced to pick sides, sparking a kind of Lord of the Flies survival of the fittest frenzy.

[Ryan Thorpe]

Action is what is needed most in these trying times, and that action must be driven towards our white revolution.

[Michelle Shepherd]

A race war will begin and the whites will triumph.

[Ryan Thorpe]

Embrace the chaos and from its ashes.

[Michelle Shepherd]

A new world shall arise.

[Ryan Thorpe]

Beautiful and pure.

[Michelle Shepherd]

To victory.

[Ryan Thorpe]

White man.

[Michelle Shepherd]

If you haven't been following this, their mission sounds a bit far fetched, I know. But this violent faction of the far right has been busy spewing hate and organizing on social media and in private chat groups. And those who share the ideology have been carrying out deadly attacks. At least 49 people have been killed in two mosques in Christchurch. In El Paso, Texas, 20 people were gunned down inside a Walmart. In Charleston, South Carolina, nine people were killed in a shooting at a historic African American church.

[Ryan Thorpe]

We are following a developing story out of Quebec City. Police confirm multiple deaths inside a mosque.

[Michelle Shepherd]

Dozens of others are wounded. Many are developing. Police are now searching for a white male suspect thought to be in his early 20s. I've been tracking terrorism since the September 11th attacks. But the vast majority of the violence I covered was outside of North America and perpetrated by Al Qaeda and its affiliates and then by isis. But there was one devastating terrorist attack by a right wing extremist that I covered in my travels. Today, the usually peaceful nation of Norway is coming to terms with horrific acts of violence. A large bomb went off outside Norwegian government offices in the capital Oslo this afternoon, killing at least seven people and injuring many more. When I got on a plane in Toronto to fly to Norway, all I knew was that a bomb had gone off in Oslo and there were early reports of children being killed on the nearby island of Utoya. In the end, there were 77 victims, most of them teenagers. The survivors were heartbreakingly composed. I can still picture Caroline bank telling me how her arm was cramping as she pressed a shredded T shirt into her friend's bullet wounds. And that she was trying to camouflage her friend's purple hoodie with sticks and dirt because the murderer, Anders Bering Breivik, was still out there. I read Breivik's terrace manifesto all 15, 18 pages of it. He didn't use the term accelerationist back then, but that's what he was. This is what he. We are in the very beginning of a very bloody cultural war, a war between nationalism and internationalism, and we intend to win it. He wanted to start a race war. Others are still trying today, and that's what we're investigating in this podcast. This overt and covert accelerationist movement, this push by a small but determined and violent faction of the far right. And that's the story. Journalist Ryan Thorpe foundation in the city of Winnipeg, smack dab in the middle of North America. Ryan was working as a general assignment reporter at the Winnipeg Free Press, affectionately known as the Freep. It's the paper of record in this city on the Canadian prairies.

[Ryan Thorpe]

So anytime that there was violent crime or homicide or something like that in Winnipeg, I was usually the person asked to cover it. And then when I wasn't working on stuff like that, just anything that might need to be covered in a day, they would kick over to me. So it was pretty varied.

[Michelle Shepherd]

One day in the summer of 2019, Ryan's editor asked him to follow up on a tip. Someone had been putting up posters around Winnipeg with the words, Learn, train, fight. There was a sketch of a jacked up grim reaper in a skull mask cradling an assault style rifle. And the call to arms, Save your race. Join the base. So what's your next move then? Now that you have this poster, what do you do to try and figure out what's going on?

[Ryan Thorpe]

My first step is just to begin doing kind of an Internet dive into this organization called the Base. I had never heard of them before. I didn't know anything about them. And I come across this 2018 expose done by Vice, which in late 2018.

[Michelle Shepherd]

Vice journalists Ben Maku and Mac Lamoureux wrote the first big piece on the base under the headline, Neo Nazis are organizing Secretive Paramilitary Training across America.

[Ryan Thorpe]

And aside from this kind of single news article, I couldn't find anything about this organization, which probably explained by virtue of the fact that this group was fairly new, that according to Vice, they had been formed in 2018. And I knew that they had been formed in the United States. And now all of a sudden, we got recruitment posters turning up here in Winnipeg.

[Michelle Shepherd]

So Ryan considered his options.

[Ryan Thorpe]

I walk down the newsroom and go back to my editor and essentially say, look, this is what I found out so far. There are two different ways you could approach the story. One is that I could write something for tomorrow's Paper, I would just get some interviews with al academics. I would contact the Winnipeg Police Service, ask if they're aware of these posters and tracking them at all. Maybe I would go to one of the kind of anti fascist organizers that I know and get a quote from them. It'd be pretty straightforward, it'd be quick to turn around. The other approach, I said, would be to create a fake name and just reach out to them and ask for more information about them. Pretend to be a white nationalist that's potentially interested in joining up.

[Michelle Shepherd]

So that's what Ryan does. He goes by the alias of Mark, a 26 year old university student who has been flirting with white nationalist ideology. And he emails the contact on the poster asking for more information.

[Ryan Thorpe]

I got a response the next day. The first thing they wanted to know was where I had seen their posters. And so I described the area of St. James where I knew one of these posters had come up. And after that they sent me a questionnaire that they asked me to fill out which wanted to know, you know, my name, my age, my physical fitness level, my ethnicity, my sex. They wanted to know if I had firearms training, if I had military experience at all, if I had background in chemistry or engineering. They wanted me to describe my political worldview. And so I filled out that questionnaire and sent it back to them.

[Michelle Shepherd]

This fact strikes me as so funny and familiar too. The bureaucracy of extremist groups is just surreal. I remember in 2016 getting my hands on a database of 4,000 ISIS recruits. It contained all the answers those applicants had to supply. Date of birth and nationality, education, employment, and would you like to be a fighter, security guard and administrator, or martyr? Ryan answered the basis questionnaire carefully.

[Ryan Thorpe]

I didn't want to inflate my credentials or like lie about my background to make myself seem like a more attractive recruit to them. So when it came to like questions of military training or a background in chemistry and engineering in real life, I have neither. And so I didn't pretend to have those things. So I gave them my real age. You know, when it came to, do you have any firearms trainings? I just said that like, I grew up in a rural area of the Canadian prairies and like all of my family were hunters and my dad taught me to shoot guns from a young age, which was all accurate.

[Michelle Shepherd]

The form worked. For the next few days, there were emails back and forth.

[Ryan Thorpe]

Eventually the person I was communicating with told me to download an app.

[Michelle Shepherd]

Ryan signed up as Mark and he started communicating with someone with the handle Romanwolf. The Texting continued, and then Roman said it was time to talk on the phone.

[Ryan Thorpe]

I can remember, you know, being in the newsroom all day and kind of going about, you know, my regular GA duties. And then it was eight or nine at night when I had set up this phone call. I had printed out all my correspondence with these people and then kind of wrote a list of all the key details that I'd been telling them about myself just to make sure that I didn't screw up or say something that contradicted a piece of information I had previously given them. If I couldn't think of a way to answer a question off the top of my head, I could just look down at the page and then very quickly, riff.

[Michelle Shepherd]

Ryan spread the cheat sheets out in front of him. But from the get go, there was something he hadn't expected.

[Ryan Thorpe]

About 10 to 15 minutes prior to when this call is scheduled for, I get a message from the guy that I've been talking to, and he says, actually, there's going to be about like five to six other members of the base listening in which I found unnerving because one, it just caught me off guard, and two, here I was thinking I only had to convince one person, and now I had to be convincing to six or seven. Again.

[Michelle Shepherd]

This is the man calling himself Roman Wolf. And while there were supposedly others joining in, it's only Roman talking. It sounds like he's in charge.

[Ryan Thorpe]

We're assuming that some degree of power vacuum will emerge, and we want to be able to fill that power vacuum. So our preparation, our training is geared towards that.

[Michelle Shepherd]

He tells Ryan, AKA Mark, the university student, that the base is a survivalist self defense network and its members do not believe there is a political solution to the oppression of the white race.

[Ryan Thorpe]

So we're hoping for a collapse of the current system.

[Michelle Shepherd]

He says we're hoping for a collapse of the current system. And Ryan is playing right along.

[Ryan Thorpe]

No, I would agree with that. I think I've just reached a point where it's like I no longer want my political views to just be some private personal thing that doesn't translate into how I operate or act in the world, which is how, admittedly how it's been for me the past couple of years, but that's something that I want to change. Not only do I think that a collapse is coming and is inevitable, I also hold the view that we've already entered into something approximating a kind of very low intensity civil war. You're gonna be stepping into, you know, probably the most like, extreme Group of, you know, pro white people that you can probably come across. You know, they're close to it.

[Michelle Shepherd]

The most extreme group of pro white people you'll probably come across. Ryan kept his cool, didn't flinch. It seemed like he had built some kind of rapport with this Roman Wolf. But as the call was winding down, a totally new voice pops up.

[Ryan Thorpe]

I'm sorry for being late. So far, it sounds like you're interested, and the person that may or may not have been putting those posters may or may not have been me. So that person who's active, so to speak, in your area may or may not be me on this. Okay, sounds good.

[Michelle Shepherd]

Basically, now Ryan knows, okay, he's got the guy who's been putting up the posters in Winnipeg. The call ends with Roman Wolf saying he and the others would discuss Ryan's application and get back to him in 24 hours.

[Ryan Thorpe]

The next day, I'm in the newsroom working on a different story, and I see a notification pop up on my work cell phone. And it was Roman Wolf. And he said, you did good last night. The next step is to meet our local guy in person.

[Michelle Shepherd]

At 24, I lost my narrative, or rather, it was stolen from me. And the Monica Lewinsky that my friends and family knew was usurped by false narratives, callous jokes, and politics. I would define reclaiming as to take back what was yours. Something you possess is lost or stolen, and ultimately you triumph in finding it again. Follow reclaiming with Monica Lewinsky on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to reclaiming early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Ryan's investigation was moving surprisingly fast. It had only been about two weeks since he'd first reached out.

[Ryan Thorpe]

And now all of a sudden, I'm going to be meeting up with the person who is responsible for putting these posters up, right? And so that felt good. From a journalistic standpoint, it's like, oh, I actually got to the bottom of this one. At the same time, by this point, I had learned a lot about this organization. I had learned that this wasn't the type of far right groups that I had done coverage on in the past, that this was something far more serious, far more militarized, and potentially violent. And so, you know, I was worried, am I going to be convincing enough? You know, it's one thing to kind of convince them over text messages and emails and even a phone call, right? Where if something had went wrong, I'm still physically separated from these people. So the consequences aren't that bad this time around. If I screw up and blow my cover, I'm gonna be face to face with this guy and what might he do at that point? A face to face meeting. I'm essentially acting. You know, I don't have any chops as an actor or background to drama, so it was. I was being put to the test in a way that I hadn't been before.

[Michelle Shepherd]

Ryan didn't have much time to prep for the meeting.

[Ryan Thorpe]

We set up this meeting for 8pm at Whittier park in Winnipeg, which was a park that I had chosen due to its location. I wanted to keep things, and I didn't want to meet him out of town or in some very secluded area. So I go into work that day and I can't remember what I was covering. I had a daily deadline, and so I didn't really think about the meeting a lot. Honestly, I didn't have the time to.

[Michelle Shepherd]

But when he gets home, kind of.

[Ryan Thorpe]

As I'm walking through the door, it's like three hours out, and it hits me, you know, what I'm about to do. So that's when the nerves really start getting to me. You know, I'm thinking through various things that could happen at that meeting that might blow my cover. I can't have my audio recorder in my pocket. What if he pats me down, right? Like that's. That's obviously a red flag, you know, I thought, well, maybe I can just run an audio recorder on my cell phone. But, you know, I was just worried that if for whatever reason he saw the screen, maybe I checked the time at some point, and he sees that little recording bar at the top of the screen that I just figured it wasn't worth the risk. Then I get worried that he might ask to see my driver's license or my id. And then all it takes is one Google search of my name and he would see that I'm a reporter at the Winnipeg Free Press.

[Michelle Shepherd]

But then Ryan thinks, okay, but it's also weird not to carry your wallet.

[Ryan Thorpe]

Is that going to be a red flag in and of itself? So I essentially come up with this story where I message him a couple hours before our meeting, and I say, look, I usually go jogging a few times a week, and normally on Wednesdays, which was the day of the week it was, I go jogging, but I was so busy today that I couldn't. So I'm going to jog from my place to the park. You know, I'm six feet tall, I'm thin, I'm going to be wearing jogging clothes and I have a shaved head. He says, yeah, that's fine, that's good.

[Michelle Shepherd]

As a young white dude with a shaved head, Ryan's about as central casting as you can get for neo Nazis. But Winnipeg's not a huge city and the Free Press is the main paper and Ryan had covered a couple far right stories. So ostensibly, if you were into this stuff, you may have read him. And his headshot accompanies his articles.

[Ryan Thorpe]

And so I have a mustache in that photo and I had a mustache at the time. So I go into my bathroom and I shave off all my facial hair. And then the final thing was that, you know, I was wearing a T shirt and shorts, but some of my tattoos were visible. And so I put on kind of like a long sleeve exercise shirt and kind of athletic, like long John type things underneath the shorts and T shirt, just so that my entire body was covered and so he wouldn't see any of my tattoos. I have one tattoo, which is the M30 tattoo, which is associated with journalism that reporters would put at the end of their copy to signal the end of the story for a long time. But that's kind.

[Michelle Shepherd]

There's only one other person I know who has that inside baseball journalism tattoo. Me. I got it 18 years ago on my 30th birthday as a joke. Dash 30 dash the end. Mine's on my lower back. I thought it was pretty original. Ryan's is on his arm. It's not his only tattoo.

[Ryan Thorpe]

And essentially on the insides of my arms I have these two circles with these little flowers. One's a black rose, one's like a sunflower, but that's.

[Michelle Shepherd]

Ryan's a vegan. Apparently the sunflower is a symbol of veganism.

[Ryan Thorpe]

Yeah, I just think that's probably not the type of tattoo that like, you know, some hardcore macho neo Nazi would probably have. So I figured it best to cover those up.

[Michelle Shepherd]

So the cleanly shorn long sleeved jogger runs off to Whittier park and goes to the baseball diamond where there's a game underway and waits. Pretty soon another man arrives and makes a beeline for Ryan. He has blond hair, longish on top with short sides. His build is stocky and he looks like he's in pretty good shape. It's him.

[Ryan Thorpe]

And pretty quickly he says, well, you know, we're going to be working with each other a lot moving forward and so if you'd like, we can just drop the pseudonyms and I think about it for a split second, and I'm like, yes. And so he says, my name's Patrick. And I say, my name's Ryan.

[Michelle Shepherd]

The meeting spot is loud and crowded, so Patrick tells Ryan he wants to go further into the park. And they walk into a wooded area.

[Ryan Thorpe]

And so he takes off this big backpack that he had on, and he unzips it. He starts pulling stuff out. And he also pulls out some of the posters he had been putting up. And then he pulls out two jackets that are, like, military camouflage style. He pulls out two masks, face masks that have a skull printed on the front of them, which are popular in certain neo Nazi circles. And then he pulls out two hats, and he says, you know, we have to take a picture together and then send it back to Roman to prove that we've met and that this meeting actually happened.

[Michelle Shepherd]

And Ryan thinks, uh, oh, yeah, I.

[Ryan Thorpe]

Was uncomfortable with it. Like, I don't want to help create propaganda for this, like, horrific group, but it was something that I had to do. So there was actually this. This funny moment where we're in this, like, secluded area, and it's, like, all woods. It's down by the river. And we start putting on the military jacket and. And the face masks. And as we're pretty much, like, done getting dressed up, all of a sudden a guy rips down on a bicycle on, like, this little path in the woods, and, like, looks at us and then just, like, keeps going. And I'm like, oh, shit. Like, that's not. That's not good.

[Michelle Shepherd]

The cyclist spooks Patrick, so they try a new location.

[Ryan Thorpe]

So we cross the field and we go to the opposite end of the park, where, again, there's more woods. And I can remember walking up this kind of, like, steep embankment, and at the top, there was a rail line that ran all along the park. As soon as he sees the rail line, he thinks, this is where I want to take this photo. And then he keeps trying to set up his phone so that it can, like, take a photo. And. Because obviously there's no one there to take the picture of us. And so he has to, like, put a timer on his phone and set it up in such a place. And in the end, he's struggling with it for so long. And in the end, he, like, takes out a roll of tape that he had been using for, like, to put up these posters. And he, like, tapes his phone to, like, a. I think it was, like, a pole that had, like, a sign from the rail company on it or something. And Anyway, so he tapes up his phone, he hits the timer, and then we kind of run down onto the middle of the train tracks, and we both stand there with our arms crossed, and the photo gets taken. And then as we are leaving that area, we know we take off the clothes and we're leaving, kind of going back out into a different area of the park. And that's where he makes this comment to me, where he's, you know, he's talking more about being a combat engineer and his military experience.

[Michelle Shepherd]

The first time Ryan spoke to Patrick during that vetting call, he got the impression Patrick did have military training.

[Ryan Thorpe]

I have one question, and being that, do you have any, by chance, military experience or. No. No, I don't. Okay, all right. That. Okay, whatever. I mean, if you did, that would save me a little bit of trouble, but that's okay. Whatever. No. Yeah, yeah.

[Michelle Shepherd]

So Ryan knew now was the time he had to drill down what is a combat engineer and what do they do?

[Ryan Thorpe]

He's saying things like, oh, they're responsible for surveying, like, the field of battle and trying to find different things that could be used to the military's advantage. And then he says, as an example, like that rail line there. He's like, even if you didn't want to make that go boom, you could do X, Y, and Z. And he starts talking about how you could go about pulling up one of the sides of the rail line to derail a train.

[Michelle Shepherd]

So it sounds like this man who is actively recruiting for the base, a neo Nazi accelerationist group, actually has the know how to carry out a terrorist attack on a train. Ryan tried to wrap up the meeting at this point.

[Ryan Thorpe]

We've been talking for quite a while, and we've kind of been walking around these various areas of the park. The light's fading from the sky a little bit. It's getting darker. Temperature's dropping a little bit. And so we kind of walk back towards where we first met. And so now the baseball game is done, there's less people around, and we're kind of standing at the edge of the ball diamond talking. And at this point, he starts telling me about his past relationship, and he reveals to me that his ex was a person of color, was a black woman. And the sense I get when he's opening up to me about this is like he's confessing something or he's, like, unburdening himself a little bit. And then he tells me this horrific anecdote where he says. He says, yeah, like, towards the end of the relationship, there was a pregnancy scare. And he might have even said that she had lied about being pregnant or something. So for a while, Patrick thought he was going to have a child with this woman. And then he tells me, he says, the only problem is the child only would have been half human, which was, you know, just a disgusting comment. And then I remember he added, yet having a mulatto child would have been a fucking nightmare. And so again, it's just like, okay, this is the level of racism that this guy has fallen into. These are kind of the depths of his bigotry where he was in a relationship with this person, but if he had had a child with them, he thinks that only, you know, only half of it would have been human. So he looks at his ex as subhuman in some sense.

[Michelle Shepherd]

I'm so amazed that you were able to keep your composure because, I mean, even you telling me that now, you should see my face. And it's not, you know, it's not that often. Obviously you've read lots of hateful comments. We see this sort of stuff on tv, but it's pretty rare that you have someone telling you that to your face, thinking that, you know, you're this comrade in arms, you're going to understand it. How did you. I mean, were you biting your cheek or. I mean, how did you maintain your composure as he's saying this to you?

[Ryan Thorpe]

Yeah, it was a pretty shocking comment. And I think I tried to just like not address it throughout the entirety of the reporting process as I was undercover in this group. Like, I didn't use any sort of, like, racial epithets or anything like that. That wasn't something I was comfortable doing. And I didn't engage in the overt racism that everyone else was. That was something where it's like, if I had had to actually directly respond to that comment, I don't know what I would have said.

[Michelle Shepherd]

But he just moved on at that point.

[Ryan Thorpe]

Yes. Yeah.

[Michelle Shepherd]

Patrick didn't label himself an accelerationist during the meeting, but he seemed to be quoting from the playbook.

[Ryan Thorpe]

He was certainly presenting a political worldview that was consistent with accelerationism. He's kind of going on about the local anti fascist presence in Winnipeg and he says, you know, in a well ordered society, these people would be dragged out of their homes and strung up. At one point, he's going on and on about, like, the political situation in America, the political situation in Canada, and he goes on this little rant where he says, I want the Liberal Party of Canada to get five terms in office. I want Them to push multiculturalism down people's throats. I want Black Lives Matter in every white neighborhood. You know, I want things so bad that white people start picking up guns. And he also makes clear to me what I'll be expected, what we'll be up to together as the kind of two people in this Manitoba cell of.

[Michelle Shepherd]

The base, a tight cell. And they wouldn't be just keyboard warriors. They'd be out in the real world carrying out their mission. Ryan's face to face with Patrick had taken far longer than he'd expected.

[Ryan Thorpe]

At the end of our meeting, we're standing at the park kind of closer towards the entrance. The parking lot is within view. And so I was trying to get out of there, and he's just kind of going on and on.

[Michelle Shepherd]

Ryan was thinking his editor would be freaking out at the lack of a safety update.

[Ryan Thorpe]

And then eventually, a cruiser car for the Winnipeg Police Service pulls into the parking lot. And they are kind of just like slowly driving through the parking lot. I think they're just kind of pulling in to check out the park, keep an eye on things. I didn't get the sense that anyone had called them there, but that spooked Patrick, and I also jumped on that as an excuse for us to wrap this up and leave. And he went back into the parking lot and he got into this red pickup truck, this large red pickup truck. And I didn't get a license plate, but I saw that the front driver side door had a big dent in it. I made a mental note of and thought might be important down the line.

[Michelle Shepherd]

Ryan ran home, making that recording on his phone, trying to regurgitate every single detail he could remember.

[Ryan Thorpe]

Voice member M leaving the meeting with the police.

[Michelle Shepherd]

When he stepped through the door, he emailed his editor and a friend to assure them he was fine. And then he also messaged Patrick to assure him he was fine. Ryan says he can't exactly remember what he did next, but he thinks he may have cracked a beer.

[Ryan Thorpe]

The next day, I was in the newsroom and I get a message from Roman Wolf saying, you did well last night. If you still want in, you're welcome to join. And I say yes. And then they add me to this kind of centralized group chat with all the other members, where everyone keeps in communication with each other. And so now I'm behind the scenes and I have greater access to what this group is discussing than I've ever had. I wanted to stay in the organization so I could keep documenting their internal communications for as long as possible.

[Michelle Shepherd]

But then Patrick insisted he and Ryan.

[Ryan Thorpe]

Meet again for our second in person meeting. Patrick wanted to commence paramilitary training. And at that point, I pushed things as far as I'm willing to go. Right. Like, meeting this guy in a park is one thing, but I'm not running off into the bush with guns.

[Michelle Shepherd]

Ryan stalled as long as he could. He couldn't yet confirm the identity of the man in the park, but he knew he had enough for a story. On Friday, August 16, 2019 at 7:00pm, the Winnipeg Free Press published Ryan's story online under the headline Homegrown Hate. It was a huge scoop, and I.

[Ryan Thorpe]

Went to a bar with a couple of friends and I remember one of my colleagues being like, oh, this was such good work. We have to celebrate. And I was like, I want to go to my apartment and, like, close the blinds and lock the door.

[Michelle Shepherd]

That was Friday. The next day, Ryan was checking Twitter and saw a surprising reply from an anonymous account.

[Ryan Thorpe]

It read, I think I know who Patrick is.

[Michelle Shepherd]

Coming up on White Hot Hate. We are not a place for sick hobbyists to practice their vile ideology and we won't stand for it.

[Ryan Thorpe]

We will react.

[Michelle Shepherd]

The abandoned truck was found on a rural property in the RM of Piney off Highway 12. Now, that's right near the American border.

[Ryan Thorpe]

You know, you can think of them.

[Michelle Shepherd]

As like, Tim McVeigh's children or Tim McVeigh's little cousins.

[Ryan Thorpe]

The time for words has ended. The time for podcasts has ended. Derail some fucking trains, kill some people, and poison some water supplies.

[Michelle Shepherd]

I think it was a Nazi flag.

[Ryan Thorpe]

I think it was a swastika.

[Michelle Shepherd]

I think.

[Ryan Thorpe]

Just figured he was going through a little phase. It wouldn't be right for my son to have been a victim of such a.

[Michelle Shepherd]

A terrible crime and to allow this.

[Ryan Thorpe]

To potentially happen to other people too. The danger that is posed by extreme hate.

[Michelle Shepherd]

White Hot Hate was written and produced by Ashley Mack and me, Michelle Shepherd. Our associate producer is Kim Kasher, with production support from Sarah Melton. Additional reporting by Ryan Thorpe. Mixing and sound design by Denel Cloutier, Evan Kelly and Julia Whitman, with technical assistance from Laura Antonelli. Emily Canell is our digital producer. Fact checking by Emily Matthew and legal advice from Sean Moorman. Original music by Quiet Type. And a special thanks to the Winnipeg Free Press for CBC Podcasts. Our senior producer is Chris Oak and our executive producer is Arif Noorani. For more CBC Podcasts, go to CBC CA Podcasts.