White Hot Hate: Agent Pale Horse

Season 2, Episode 2: "You Got Anything for Rednecks?"
Release Date: April 1, 2025
Host/Author: CBC
Produced Alongside Book: Code Name: Pale Horse: How I Went Undercover to Expose America's Nazis by Scott Payne and Michelle Shephard

Introduction

In the second episode of the second season of White Hot Hate, titled "You Got Anything for Rednecks?", CBC delves deeper into the extraordinary life of FBI undercover agent Scott Payne. This episode, hosted by David Cochran, sheds light on Payne's journey from his early years in Greenville, South Carolina, to becoming one of the FBI's most effective infiltrators of violent gangs, including outlaw bikers and neo-Nazi networks.

Early Life and High School Experiences

Scott Payne's story begins in Greenville, South Carolina, where he was raised in a devout Christian family. Payne's upbringing was marked by hard work and resilience, traits instilled by his father, who built a successful landscaping business despite dropping out in the 10th grade.

Scott Payne [04:17]: "I grew up in a Christian family, Christian home. I had to work for what I got."

Payne was an only child, which he believes shaped his strong work ethic and ability to blend into various social circles. During his high school years in the 1980s, Payne was a multifaceted individual—playing football, weightlifting, and excelling academically in the Beta Club.

Payne [06:10]: "I was a jock. Weightlifting, playing ball. And I was a musician and a singer. So kind of jack of all trades, master of none."

His involvement in a high school talent show, where his band performed Van Halen's "Hot for Teacher," became a pivotal moment. The inappropriate gestures during the performance led to a confrontation with Vice Principal Mr. Walker, which marked Payne's first experience in an undercover role—attempting to identify the vandals who targeted Mr. Walker's property.

Payne [09:07]: "I started working the circles of people. And I think it was in the gym one day, you know, just nonchalant. Hey, man, man, did you hear what happened to Mr. Walker?"

This early encounter ignited Payne's passion for law enforcement and undercover work.

Personal Struggles and Turning Point

Following his parents' divorce, Payne faced personal challenges, including battling depression and dabbling in dark pursuits like witchcraft and Satanism. These struggles culminated in a terrifying encounter he described as seeing a "demon" at a party, which led him back to his Christian faith.

Payne [12:50]: "I screamed because it scared the living crap out of me... I was scared the Jesus back into me."

This profound experience redirected Payne's life trajectory towards faith, education, and eventually, a career in law enforcement.

College and Early Law Enforcement Career

Payne pursued a degree in psychology, motivated by a desire to understand his father's depression. His academic journey introduced him to criminal justice, sparking his interest in law enforcement.

Simultaneously, Payne worked as a bouncer at Desperado's, a country bar, where he honed essential skills for his future career. Here, he developed what he calls "verbal judo"—the ability to de-escalate conflicts through conversation rather than confrontation.

Payne [16:35]: "I started learning how to talk. You got to start learning how to be a people person."

His proficiency in handling tense situations earned him recognition and laid the groundwork for his aspirations to join the FBI.

Joining the FBI

After graduating, Payne joined the Greenville County Sheriff's Office in 1993, working his way up from a beat cop to vice and narcotics divisions amid the escalating war on drugs.

Payne [18:14]: "So Scott finished up his psychology degree as he began exploring options in law enforcement."

Inspired by a respected sergeant, Terry Rankhorn, Payne applied to the FBI and successfully gained admission to the prestigious FBI Academy in Quantico, Virginia, accompanied by his loyal basset hound.

During training, Payne faced the intense and competitive nature of becoming an undercover agent. Rankhorn, a seasoned FBI instructor, praised Payne's composure and strategic thinking.

Rankhorn [24:13]: "We get this feeling. It's like, wow, I'm really in the top cut here. It's like, I made the NFL draft or the NBA draft."

The rigorous training at the FBI's undercover school tested Payne's limits, where only a fraction of applicants succeeded. The program emphasized the importance of a solid "legend" or backstory, critical for effective undercover operations.

Payne [25:15]: "Legend. That's FBI speak for your backstory, your undercover persona."

Initial Undercover Attempts and Persistence

Despite completing his training, Payne faced challenges in securing an undercover assignment. His persistence paid off when he was finally selected to infiltrate the Outlaws, one of America's most notorious and insular biker gangs.

Payne [19:42]: "I was so scared, I was freaking out, man. I was like, you know? But... that's how you start. You start learning."

Payne's breakthrough came through networking and mentorship within the FBI, demonstrating the importance of relationships and reputation in high-stakes environments.

First Major Undercover Assignment

Payne's first major assignment involved infiltrating the Outlaws in Atlanta. This role was his dream come true, allowing him to apply his skills in a real-world scenario against a formidable adversary.

Payne [31:10]: "No. Compared to what happened? No."

This assignment marked the beginning of Payne's extensive career in undercover operations, where he would later expose and dismantle various hate groups and criminal organizations from within.

Conclusion and Teaser for Next Episode

As the episode concludes, listeners are left anticipating the challenges Payne would face during his infiltration of the Outlaws biker gang. The episode effectively sets the stage for the subsequent installment, promising deeper insights into Payne's undercover experiences and the complexities of combating domestic terrorism.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Scott Payne [04:17]: "I grew up in a Christian family, Christian home. I had to work for what I got."
• Payne [06:10]: "I was a jock. Weightlifting, playing ball. And I was a musician and a singer. So kind of jack of all trades, master of none."
• Payne [09:07]: "I started working the circles of people. And I think it was in the gym one day, you know, just nonchalant. Hey, man, man, did you hear what happened to Mr. Walker?"
• Payne [12:50]: "I screamed because it scared the living crap out of me... I was scared the Jesus back into me."
• Payne [16:35]: "I started learning how to talk. You got to start learning how to be a people person."
• Terry Rankhorn [24:13]: "We get this feeling. It's like, wow, I'm really in the top cut here. It's like, I made the NFL draft or the NBA draft."

Credits and Acknowledgments

This episode was crafted by a dedicated team, including writer and producer Michelle Shephard, senior producer Ashley Mack, producer Eunice Kim, mixing and sound design by Evan Kelly, digital producer Emily Cannell, and intern Rachel Degasperas. Special thanks to Andrew Friesen, Graham McDonald, the CBC Reference Library, and Auralation Studios. Executive producers Chris Oak and Cecil Fernandez, Senior Manager Tanya Springer, and Director Arif Noorani of CBC Podcasts also contributed significantly to the production.

Additional Information

For more episodes of White Hot Hate, including Season One, listeners can access the podcast on various platforms such as YouTube and their preferred podcast apps. Ratings and reviews are encouraged to help new listeners discover the series.

Visit CBC Podcasts for more information and additional content.