Season 2, Episode 5: Klan Kologne

Summary

White Hot Hate: Agent Pale Horse — Season 2, Episode 5: Klan Kologne

In Season 2, Episode 5 of CBC’s gripping podcast series White Hot Hate, titled "Klan Kologne," host Michelle Shepherd delves deep into the perilous undercover operations of FBI agent Scott Payne. This episode offers a raw and unfiltered glimpse into Payne’s infiltration of the United Klans of America (uka), shedding light on the inner workings of one of America’s most notorious hate groups and the complexities of combating domestic terrorism.

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Introduction: The Undercover Battlefield

The episode opens with a vivid recounting by Scott Payne as he navigates a Klan rally in Alabama in 2017. Disguised as a biker, Payne’s mission is to embed himself within the jutahe core of the United Klans of America, a faction replete with extremists intent on fostering racial strife.

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The Alabama Klan Rally and Naturalization Ceremony

Payne describes his initial entry into a secluded Klan rally with palpable tension:

"Damn it. All right, I'm turning. Oh, here they are. And I finally find the road to turn off on..." (00:47)

Upon arrival, Payne encounters the Nighthawks—KKK members donned in black robes and hoods, exuding an intimidating presence. The atmosphere is thick with unease as he interacts with Jack, an enthusiastic Klansman who introduces him to various aspects of the rally.

A pivotal moment unfolds when Payne observes a 30-foot metal cross:

"I said, oh, so we gonna have a cross burning? And he's like, now, Scott, it's not a cross burning. That'd be sacrilegious..." (03:03)

This "cross lighting" ceremony is explained as a symbolic act of "the light of Jesus Christ coming into the world and driving the darkness out," though Payne skeptically notes the practical implications of the ritual.

The climax of the rally is the Naturalization Ceremony, a façade for pledging allegiance to the Klan. Payne describes the tension-filled process:

"And I'm like, all right, cool. And then I wait till a couple people walk off and I'm like, hey, what is a naturalization?" (04:34)

Blindfolded and physically tethered to the person in front of them, members partake in a ritualistic pledge:

"This signifies the bond of brotherhood. Do not break the chain." (04:52)

Payne’s inner conflict surfaces as he grapples with the symbolic significance versus his covert role:

"I am not breaking the chain." (05:08)

The ceremony culminates in Payne being officially "knighted" into the Klan, leaving him to reflect on his inadvertent deepening involvement:

"I just joined the clan." (07:05)

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Transition to Knoxville Division and Operation Roadkill

Post-Alabama, Payne transitions to the FBI's Knoxville Division, seeking roles that align closer with his Southeastern roots after experiencing burnout. His shift includes involvement in Operation Roadkill, targeting corruption within local law enforcement amidst the opioid epidemic.

Reflecting on the effectiveness of these operations, Payne emphasizes the tangible impact of his work despite the challenges:

"Are we cleaning up stuff and making this community better?" (10:55)

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Operation Smoking Robes: Targeting the United Klans of America

Payne’s primary focus shifts to Operation Smoking Robes, an initiative aimed at dismantling the Klan’s illicit activities, particularly the manufacturing and distribution of ghost guns—untraceable firearms without serial numbers.

He underscores the legal challenges in prosecuting hate groups under existing U.S. statutes:

"There’s no domestic terrorism statute. You just try to find out if they're committing any kind of crime..." (17:09)

Joining the FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force (JTTF) in 2016, Payne is assigned to the domestic terrorism team, a sector historically under-resourced compared to its international counterpart.

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Undercover Interaction with Benji McDowell

A significant breakthrough in Operation Smoking Robes occurs through Payne’s infiltration of the Klan’s communication channels. Establishing contact with Benji McDowell, a recently released felon with deep ties to white supremacy, Payne navigates complex interactions aimed at uncovering McDowell’s plans for violence.

During a clandestine meeting, McDowell reveals his intentions:

"I have the heart. I'm just not smart enough. I need somebody to give me some guidance." (27:17)

Payne astutely probes McDowell’s motivations, drawing parallels to infamous hate crimes:

"I want to do something in the style of Dylann Roof, but on a grander scale." (28:39)

The conversation highlights McDowell's radicalization and his perilous trajectory toward orchestrating mass violence, positioning Payne at the precipice of preventing potential tragedy.

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The Arrest of Benji McDowell and Payne’s Capture

As tensions escalate, McDowell seeks explicit authorization to acquire a .40 caliber handgun—a transaction that becomes the linchpin for federal prosecution. Payne orchestrates a meeting under the guise of facilitating the weapon transfer:

"I am going to Conway South Carolina to pick up Benji McDowell. I will be delivering a .40 caliber handgun to him that he has requested." (32:39)

The operation culminates in a meticulously planned arrest at Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. Payne reflects on the adrenaline-fueled confrontation:

"They just jumped out. Slammed my head off the side of the car... I was like, dad gum, man. Don't y'all know I'm undercover?" (33:15)

Simultaneously capturing both McDowell and himself, the arrest leads to McDowell’s confession and subsequent sentencing for felony firearm possession. This successful takedown underscores the critical importance of undercover operations in thwarting domestic terrorism threats.

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Reflections on Undercover Work and the Klan

Throughout the episode, Payne shares candid insights into the psychological toll and ethical dilemmas inherent in undercover work. Confronted with individuals like McDowell, whose potential for violence is palpable despite incongruent outward appearances, Payne grapples with the profound realities of extremist infiltration.

He muses on the deceptive facades of perpetrators:

"Most people are gonna look and go, oh, what a, you know, nerd, idiot, whatever, dweeb. They can't. But look, they all killed people." (30:43)

These reflections underscore the nuanced challenges agents face in distinguishing benign appearances from latent threats, emphasizing the indispensable nature of vigilance and empathy in such roles.

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Conclusion: The Silent Frontline Against Hatred

In "Klan Kologne," Michelle Shepherd masterfully encapsulates the harrowing yet crucial endeavors of Agent Scott Payne in combating domestic terrorism. Through Payne’s harrowing experiences—from inadvertently joining a Klan rally to orchestrating the arrest of a potential mass shooter—the episode illuminates the relentless pursuit of justice amid deep-seated hatred and prejudice.

As the series progresses, Payne’s narrative serves as a testament to the sacrifices and complexities faced by those on the frontline against extremism, offering listeners a profound understanding of the invisible wars waged to safeguard communities from the brink of violence.

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Notable Quotes

• Scott Payne (05:08): "I am not breaking the chain."

• Scott Payne (10:55): "Are we cleaning up stuff and making this community better?"

• Scott Payne (17:09): "There’s no domestic terrorism statute. You just try to find out if they're committing any kind of crime..."

• Scott Payne (28:39): "I want to do something in the style of Dylann Roof, but on a grander scale."

• Scott Payne (30:43): "Most people are gonna look and go, oh, what a, you know, nerd, idiot, whatever, dweeb. They can't. But look, they all killed people."

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Behind the Scenes

White Hot Hate: Agent Pale Horse is co-written by Michelle Shepherd and Scott Payne, expanding on the harrowing tales of undercover operations. Produced with meticulous attention to detail, the series is crafted alongside their book, Code Name: Pale Horse: How I Went Undercover to Expose America's Nazis. The collaborative efforts of senior producer Ashley Mack, producer Eunice Kim, and the dedicated production team ensure a compelling and authentic narrative experience.

For listeners eager to delve deeper into the clandestine world of undercover agents combating white supremacist threats, Season 2 of White Hot Hate continues to deliver insightful and emotionally charged storytelling, available on all major podcast platforms.

Transcript

[Rosemary Barton]

Whose take do you trust during this election cycle? I'm Rosemary Barton, CBC's chief political correspondent. At Issue is also where I listen and learn from the very best, Chantaly Bear, Andrew Coyne and Althea Raj. They are political heavyweights. They write and talk about politics for Canada's biggest publications and broadcasters, and they help shape the national conversation. So if you're looking for people who can connect the dots, cut through the spin, check out the At Issue podcast every week, wherever you listen.

[Michelle Shepherd]

This is a CBC podcast. The following episode contains strong language and descriptions of violence and substance use. Please take care when listening.

[Scott]

QC3415. It is 4:21, 2017. It's approximately 4:30pm Central Time. I'm in Alabama. Will be heading to the United Clans of America rally.

[Michelle Shepherd]

In 1,000ft. Turn right.

[Scott]

Okay, let's figure this out. There are no markings, no balloons, no nothing that Jack said would be there. I got lost. I'd drive. And then all of a sudden, you lose cell. I don't see no guards. I don't see cars. I don't see flags. 868. So I passed it. Damn it. All right, I'm turning. Oh, here they are. And I finally find the road to turn off on. And I roll up and right there at the gate is the Nighthawks. Wear black robes and hoods, and they are more the security. And immediately I'm like, I recognize that person. I recognize that person. And they're holding guns. And I'm like, I know that person's a felon. That person's a felon. And it's. I'm not gonna lie, it's awkward. Like, I walk into a bar and I don't know anybody that's different. I pull into a gate, into a fenced in field in the middle of nowhere in the middle of Alabama. Yeah, I mean, what. Hey, guys, how's it going?

[Michelle Shepherd]

I've listened to a lot of Scott's stories in the past couple years. Like a lot, to try to capture his voice. While writing the book, I would walk my dog playing hours of my interviews with him, a sort of literary version of method acting. But this case in Alabama in 2017, it gets me every time. These heavily armed guys he's referring to in their black robes are members of the United Clans of America, a division of the kkk. And Scott has been invited to their spring rally by an enthusiastic Klansman named Jack.

[Scott]

So I'm talking to Jack and, you know, I'm just learning. I'm trying to learn, you know, teach Me kind of thing because most guys like to talk a lot.

[Michelle Shepherd]

Jack's showing Scott around and introducing him to new people. There's vendor booth selling merch and snacks, a stage. Then his eyes land on a 30 foot metal cross.

[Scott]

I said, oh, so we gonna have a cross burning? And he's like, now, Scott, it's not a cross burning. That'd be sacrilegious. It's a cross lighting. And I went, ah, well, I don't get it. And he's like, it signifies the light of Jesus Christ coming into the world and driving the darkness out. What they do is they at least this clan group, you wrap burlap all the way around every part of that cross and it's propped up on like logs or something. And then you take metal wire and you put it around that burlap so it'll stay on there. Then you soak that burlap in diesel fuel. I learned that diesel fuel is called clan cologne. And then I found out personally why there's no way for you to stand that cross up and not get diesel. Will feel all over you.

[Michelle Shepherd]

Scott is trying to stay in character as a potential new recruit while taking as many mental notes as he can. Then Jack pulls him aside, he goes.

[Scott]

Look, we're having a naturalization tonight. It ain't no big deal to me. If you want to go ahead and get naturalized, that's fine. And I'm like, all right, cool. And then I wait till a couple people walk off and I'm like, hey, what is a naturalization? I mean, what am I agreeing to do here? Am I going to end up tarred and feathered out here? Am I going to end up naked?

[Michelle Shepherd]

You know, the ceremony begins with a 10 minute speech by the imperial wizard.

[Scott]

And then we get to the naturalization part. They get us in a line, all the people being naturalized, men and women, and they blindfold you. They'll walk you up blindfolded and you put your right hand on the right shoulder of the person in front of you. They're like, do not remove your right hand from the shoulder. This signifies the bond of brotherhood. Do not break the chain. Do not break the chain. So I'm listening and they're walking us around. And the guy in front of me is an older guy with a bad leg and we're on a hill. So I pretty much had to hold him up the whole time. And, you know, they start reading. Some of it sounded biblical or historical, some of it gets a little comical because they lose their place or mispronounce a word. And I hear the guy walking closer, but he's saying, hey, raise your right hand. Raise your right hand. Raise your right hand. And I'm not raising my right hand. Because I don't know if you guys ever played the game. Simon says, growing up. But I'm like, simon didn't say, raise your hand. So I'm thinking, I'm not breaking the chain. I am not breaking the chain. And the voice gets loud and gets right next to my ear, and he says, raise your right hand. And I said. I said out the side of my mouth, I said. He said, don't break the chain. And the guy's like, oh, you can raise your right hand. So I raise my right hand. We say some quotes, and it's a lot like being sworn in, getting naturalized as an American citizen, but it's all for the Klan and for the white race.

[Michelle Shepherd]

And the new recruits are told to kneel. One by one, their blindfolds are removed.

[Scott]

And I see Jack standing there with a green robe on, and he's got a sword, and he basically knights you. He says something, and I'm still like. I'm like, what is going. What is this? You know? He knights me, basically. And then they're like, welcome. You know, love you, brother. And this, that, and the other. And I'm like, okay. And now I'm walking across the.

[Michelle Shepherd]

By now the Alabama sky is pitch black. Scott fumbles his way back to his truck.

[Scott]

And I'm walking and I'm thinking, and I'm rehashing everything in my head that had just taken place. And I'm going, naturalization. They said this. I raised my right hand. I said, this ignited me. They hug you. And as I'm walking, I go, I think I just joined the damn clan. And then I thought. And I went, I did. I just joined the clan.

[Michelle Shepherd]

I'm Michelle shepherd, and from CBC, this is Agent Palehorse. Episode 5 Klan Cologne. All right, let me explain how Scott went from posing as a biker in the Northeast to becoming a Klansman in the South. It all started when he was Transferred to the FBI's Knoxville Division A few years after the Outlaws case. Operation Roadkill. During one of my visits to see him, he gave me a tour around rural Tennessee. We were in Union county, about 40 minutes outside of Knoxville, in the town of Maynardville.

[Scott]

Maynardville, Tennessee, also the birthplace of Quentin Tarantino. And if you watch all of Quentin Tarantino's movies and every one of them, he has a reference to something in Tennessee. And here's your focal Point, the Rocky Top gas station. You can rent your movies, buy your beer. You know, I hear myself getting more country as I'm driving up here talking, because I'm remembering my conversations. I can hear myself getting more. More backwoods.

[Michelle Shepherd]

The move to Knoxville was one that he and his wife Kara, had been hoping to make for a while. Scott loved McAllen, Texas, but he'd grown sick of the heat, and it was time to return closer to his roots in the Southeast. He had done a lot of self reflection and counseling after his experience with burnout. So by the time he arrived in Tennessee, with Operation Roadkill behind him, he said he felt ready to go back undercover.

[Scott]

I had been in the division for roughly six months, and I switched over to the white collar Public corruption squad, which really wasn't my forte, I guess. But probably like the first week on the squad, I went with a task force officer for the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation to go meet this source that they had developed.

[Michelle Shepherd]

It was the height of the opioid epidemic, and the Knoxville FBI office had opened a case on dirty cops stealing drugs in this part of the Appalachian Mountains. They called it Operation Poetic Justice. Scott was sent in to try to root out the corruption. His cover was to pose as a shady furniture dealer who was able to get illegal cigarettes for cheap.

[Scott]

This county is rural, and a lot of times my cover team, they wouldn't be in here driving around because people would say, hey, the feds are here kind of thing.

[Michelle Shepherd]

The case lasted almost two years and ended with 51 arrests on drug related charges and other offenses, including illegal gaming and dealing in stolen property. It wasn't the corruption investigation they were hoping for. Even though there was no shortage of dirty cops, in the end, just two law enforcement targets were arrested and convicted. The rest were low level neighborhood dealers and users. I know how the case started with public corruption and then kind of turned into a bit of a window into the pill mill, but these characters kind of sound just sad in a way. I mean, I know they're doing illegal stuff, but it's like you wonder, like, that's a lot of resources to a case.

[Scott]

I mean, listen, a lot of the 51 we locked up were wreaking havoc on the community. So when you saying some of these characters sound sad, it's still, I come from local law enforcement. It may not be the biggest drug case in the state, but am I making an impact at least in this community? Are we cleaning up stuff and making this community better? And if the answer is yes, then yeah, we're doing our Job, you know.

[Michelle Shepherd]

We're back in Knoxville now, sitting in Scott's barn, the barndominium. It's hot, so the air conditioner in the house has kicked on. The barn has a tin roof, and it's starting to rain. The more Scott talked about his career, I started to imagine him as a kind of forced gump of the undercover world, moving from investigation to investigation, finding himself at the crossroads of the most urgent issues of our times. Crack cocaine, the biker wars, the opioid epidemic. In between, he would take shorter undercover roles. Cameos, as they're known. He had at least three murder for hire cases where the targets believed he was a hitman. And after they hired him, they were sent to prison for years. Scott has never killed anyone, but he looks like he could have. Scott was never an outlaw biker, but he rides a motorcycle. And Scott's not a drug dealer, but. Well, who hasn't indulged in a pot gummy or two? The point being, to be a good undercover, as he says, you have to walk that line, but you also have to draw on what you know. Your skill set. You're a tatted biker from the South?

[Scott]

Pretty much, yeah. I mean, I could be a truck driver. I could be. I'm not a Wall street person. I tried. They're like, nope. I'm like, all right, fine. I guess I'll go get hired to kill somebody.

[Michelle Shepherd]

This is. Let me ask this in a sensitive way. You also have infiltrated all the white supremacy cases.

[Scott]

Not all of them. No. No, no, no.

[Michelle Shepherd]

But you know what I mean. Like, you. This is. This is a place you can go to.

[Scott]

I'm white.

[Michelle Shepherd]

But I couldn't. I mean, I grew up in Canada. You know, I'm a.

[Scott]

You could be a convert, though.

[Michelle Shepherd]

Maybe, but it's foreign to me. It's so foreign to me in a way that it's. If I may, it's not foreign to you. You've said this to me before because you grew up in an area where what I'm trying to get at is, like, why is that a skill set for you?

[Scott]

Well, that does not paint me in a good light, does it?

[Michelle Shepherd]

No, that's because I'm asking it. Super awkward. I'm trying not to be offensive. I'm basically saying you grew up with some.

[Scott]

Yes, I did grow up in the Southeast. I did see racism. I was kind of blind to a lot of it growing up, because it's just the way I grew up. I didn't even realize. My first seven years, I went to a private school. And it wasn't that. It was whites only. That's definitely not it. It was a Christian school, but it wasn't public, and there was no black kids there. And when I, like, eighth grade, when I went to my first public school, I didn't understand what people were saying because I'd never been exposed to it. Now, that's not me knocking anybody. It's just different dialects. I mean, you can go from one city group in this state and go to another state, and they're using different words and everything. There might be a saying that you say for, I don't know, 20 something years, and then you're talking to a good buddy who happens to be a black man, and you say the saying, and he's like, what'd you just say? And I went, oh, well, it's something I grew up. And I go, I never even listened to the words. You're like, oh, I'm so sorry.

[Michelle Shepherd]

The south carries a legacy of racism and injustice that Americans still grapple with today. Like many Southern states, South Carolina, where Scott grew up, took a long time to fully desegregate its public school system. And it was in Tennessee, where he lives now, that a group of ex Confederate soldiers gathered to form a secret society, one that would become one of the oldest and most notorious hate groups in American history. The Ku Klux Klan.

[Unknown]

In the fall of 2001, while Americans were still grappling with the horror of September 11, envelopes started showing up at media outlets and government buildings filled with a white lethal powder, anthrax. But what's strange is if you ask people now what happened with that story, almost no one knows. It's like the whole thing just disappeared. Who mailed those letters, do you know? From Wolf Entertainment, USG Audio, and CBC Podcasts, this is the hunt for the anthrax killer available now.

[Michelle Shepherd]

The kkk, of course, has a long and violent history in the U.S. membership may have dwindled over the years, but they're still out there.

[Scott]

They're always infighting. They never stay together. It's like, you know, hey, let's just say we're the Klan of Tennessee. Well, then at a rally, we get in an argument, well, you know what? I'm gonna be the Klan of East Tennessee. And then two months later, we get in an argument, well, I'm gonna be the Klan of East Tennessee. Knox County.

[Michelle Shepherd]

The United Klans of America, or the uka, were once the largest KKK faction in the country. They were responsible for a Baptist church bombing that killed four black girls during the civil rights movement. And as Scott would discover, they were still active.

[Scott]

The group that I went in was being looked at because there was reporting that some people were making ghost guns and they were felons and they were selling weapons illegally.

[Michelle Shepherd]

Ghost guns are unregistered weapons without serial numbers, which means they can't be traced. This would be Scott's next big case.

[Scott]

We are not opening a case on the Klan simply because they're in the Klan. You can't do that. That is first amendment protected. That's one of the big issues working domestic terrorism. In the United States, there's no domestic terrorism statute. You just try to find out if they're committing any kind of crime, and if they are, if we can get evidence of it and get them off the street.

[Michelle Shepherd]

Scott had joined the FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force, or JTTF, in the summer of 2016. The JTTF had been around since 1980, but after the September 11 attacks, the task force reached new heights, both in numbers and power. The FBI's top priority became combating international terrorism, pretty much Al Qaeda and its proxies. But Scott joined the JTTF's domestic team, which didn't get nearly enough attention.

[Scott]

And, you know, they treated domestic terrorism like it wasn't. Like it wasn't important. It was not. It did not get the resources and the funding. And, you know, I even had a. A supervisor, an executive management member come to me one day, and he said, why are you working that domestic terrorism stuff? He goes, don't you want to be with the big dogs? And I'm thinking to myself, boy, you have no idea. Just by you saying that makes me want to work domestic terrorism even more. You know.

[Michelle Shepherd]

For this case to be considered domestic terrorism, they had to show that the UKA was using profits gained from their crimes to promote their extremism. They called the operation, wait for it, smoking robes. Scott's undercover assignment was to find a way in. So where do you start?

[Scott]

There was actually a Klan hotline to call. It was kind of a shock to me. I'm like, they've got a hotline. Who's manning this? I mean, is this like. Is this like a telethon? I mean, they got, like, you know, phone bank set up.

[Michelle Shepherd]

Where do they advertise, right?

[Scott]

50 people waiting, hey, the Klan. How can I help you? You know, but what it ended up being is one guy answering the phone. I'm like, hey, man, I ran into some guys at a gas station, Whatever. However I said it, and that's how I got your number. I mean, there's plenty of things you can say that could be completely legit, right?

[Michelle Shepherd]

Scott ends up talking to the one guy, Jack, for almost an hour. Jack tells him about their upcoming spring rally. There would be vendors and food. They even planned on having live music, except they'd run into a bit of a problem.

[Scott]

And he goes, scott, I ain't gonna lie to you. He said, I had a band set up, but the singer just got locked up. Now I don't know what I'm gonna do for music now. And that was my opportunity. I said, oh, did I happen to tell you that I'm a musician and a singer? And he said, no. And I go, well, I am.

[Michelle Shepherd]

And that is how Scott found himself in the middle of that fenced in field in Alabama and unwittingly ended up joining the Klan.

[Scott]

I thought about not doing it, but let's just say there were 30 people or more in that field on that property. I would have been the only person that wasn't a member of the clan, not getting naturalized if I'd have said no. So I'm like, well, if I'm trying to ingratiate myself and he's already offered it to me, I might as well do it. But I really wasn't sure. I mean, I don't know why I wasn't sure. If you look at the word itself, I'm being naturalized. But it just wasn't clicking for whatever reason. Probably because I was thinking about a bunch of other stuff, like making sure I didn't have any songs in my set list that were anybody of color. You know, I don't want to flip the page and sing Otis Redding or Ray Charles. And they'll be like, what? And I'm like, what? I mean, I'm sorry.

[Michelle Shepherd]

After the spring rally, Scott continued working undercover, attending Klan classes and learning from Klan elders about their Constitution.

[Scott]

They were saying they weren't white supremacists, they were white separatists. Because it doesn't sound as bad as white supremacy. A separatist is like, look, it's not that we hate people of color. We just want our own thing. You can be on the other side of that tree line and you can have that field, but this is our field. We want to be separated. No race mixing.

[Michelle Shepherd]

But this arbitrary line between supremacist and separatist would soon be blurred. Because only four months after Scott's naturalization, deep in the woods, this happened out in the open in front of the TV news cameras. 10:00 Friday. Night. Hundreds of white nationalists storming the University of Virginia protesting plans to remove a statue of Confederate General Robert E. Lee. Blood and soil, torches in hand. Chants echoing across the historic campus.

[Scott]

You will not replace us.

[Michelle Shepherd]

Images showing the far right groups from across the country, including the kkk, banded together to unite the right. In Charlottesville, Virginia, demonstrations quickly turned violent, resulting in the death of counter protester Heather Heyer and injuries to dozens of others. Homegrown hatred was on full display for America to see. And there wasn't a single hood in sight. After Charlottesville, the FBI started devoting more resources to domestic terrorism.

[Scott]

Yeah, the pendulum started swinging even from headquarters. We started getting more bodies. They started letting us, you know, instead of five agents working international terrorism and only one working dt, well then they're like, okay, we're going to give you three bodies working domestic terrorism.

[Michelle Shepherd]

And soon they were opening more cases involving white supremacy groups. But Operation Smoking Robes, the Klan case that Scott was still in the middle of, ended without any arrests. This isn't rare or unusual. Not every investigation works out. Cases can fall apart at any stage or morph into something else. But Smoking Robes wasn't a total washout because the intel they collected on local KKK chapters would be crucial for another case.

[Scott]

So reporting had come in about this guy Benji, who had showed up and gotten naturalized at a Klan rally and becoming a member. Basically, he was saying such radical stuff that it was, you know, setting them off. They're like, hey, this. Y'all need. Some people need to look at this guy. He's not right in the head. He's planning on doing some pretty bad stuff.

[Michelle Shepherd]

The KKK called the FBI about this guy named Benji McDowell. Take that in for a second. Imagine how radical you have to be for the KKK to report you to the cops. Benji had recently been released from a South Carolina prison where he'd been in and out for years on burglary and assault charges. Once out, the 29 year old was active on social media and the bureau was closely monitoring him after he posted several white supremacist rants on Facebook. Eventually, Benjy would go searching online for a gun.

[Scott]

So the idea is that Benji has been reportedly saying some dangerous things, like he's like showing pictures of synagogues and saying we need to protect the white race and, and kill and stuff. But again, that's not illegal here, right? That's freedom of speech. But are you planning on doing that? Are you? There are things you can get for, like, harassment stuff if the verbiage is bad enough. But I am being introduced as somebody who has been around the white supremacy movement for a long time, possibly Aryan Nation, something like that. And I can get stuff, whether that be explosives, guns or whatever. That's kind of what was painted.

[Michelle Shepherd]

Scott's job was to figure out if Benji was actually planning to do something violent. So he picks him up from his home to take him to a hotel to talk in private.

[Scott]

He comes out and gets in the car. Well, I see he's got some prison tats, I see he's got some white supremacy tattoos. He gets in the car and he starts rolling the joint in the back of my car. And I'm looking in the rearview mirror and I'm like, I just ad libbed. Benji. Yes, sir. Let me ask you something about South Carolina, all right? Is weed legal here? No, sir. Because he was getting ready fired up in the car. Well, I know weed's not that big of a deal now, but it was still illegal in South Carolina at that time. And. And plus, I. I don't want him messed up. I want him kind of clear headed, you know? I don't want you to be all jacked up when you're telling me, I want to know what you want. What are you. Are you planning on doing something bad? What are you doing? I'm passing a shitload of cops, so I don't know where you carrying that shit, but I can't be caught with it. And I go, man, you don't even know who I am. You have no idea what I've done. You don't even know what's in the trunk of my car. And I said, but I've made it this far by not being stupid. That's fine. I swallowed my okay, all right. It ain't nothing about a good blunt, sir. I can't be messing with none of that shit. I got too much at stake. You know what I'm saying? Yes, sir. All right. I said, so if I get pulled over and I get hemmed up because you want to smoke a joint in my car, it's not gonna be a good day, man. And I think he ate it. I can't remember. I mean, I think he. Yeah, I think he ate it.

[Michelle Shepherd]

They get to the hotel In Myrtle Beach, S.C. scott Parks the car. Benji exits the vehicle and promptly pukes.

[Scott]

And I'm like, is he puking cause he's nervous? Is he puking cause he's car sick? Is he puking because he ate the weed and it's not sitting right? I don't know but we go into the hotel room and this is where the. I want to say here, the sausage. This is how the sausage is made. That sounds stupid, but this is where you're trying to use your skill set and your craft and say, look, what is this guy planning on doing? His big thing was he's like, man, I've got the heart. I'm just not smart enough. I need somebody to give me some guidance. And he wanted to do. This is. His words were he wanted to do something in the style of Dylann Roof, but on a grander scale.

[Michelle Shepherd]

Dylann roof, who in 2015 shot and killed nine black parishioners at a church in Charleston, South Carolina. 22 year old Dylann Roof is the first person to get the death penalty for federal hate crimes. Roof did not plead for his life. Instead he told the jury he feels he had to commit the massacre. Before the shooting, Roof had also posted hateful rhetoric online. And in the years since the attack, he's become a cult hero, a quote unquote saint to many white supremacists, which included Benji. When he says something like, I have the heart, but I need advice, what do you take that to mean?

[Scott]

The way he explained it is that he had basically hate in his heart for anybody that's not white. He said that he was a felon, that he had gotten off of parole, but on his license it shows that he's a convicted felon. And he said he couldn't get a job anywhere. Then it kind of makes you say, okay, you couldn't get a job at the store, so now you're gonna go shoot up a synagogue. That's a stretch. I mean, maybe we shouldn't find you another job. I mean, I'm sure there's a landscaping crew somewhere that could use somebody.

[Michelle Shepherd]

What do you make of that? Like, obviously that is a ridiculous jump. Like, what was the connection he was making between having hard luck and taking it out on synagogue?

[Scott]

You know, from the best I could tell getting to know him in those conversations, he was kind of brought into the white supremacy movement in prison, which is common, especially state prisons. And I guess when he went to that rally with the KKK and he got naturalized, man, he was just all in. He's like, yeah, but he's, he's carrying it to the next level. He's like, we need to, we need to kill non whites, you know, and it's tough in that situation as an undercover because I can't put words in his mouth that would be entrapment, you know, so I'M like, hey, it kind of got uncomfortable because it was going on. So at least I remember feeling uncomfortable because I'm like, dude, this is. This is a long meeting. I'm like, at what point, you know, what do you want to do? Ah, I got the heart. I mean, I want. I want to do something.

[Michelle Shepherd]

But when you're sitting there looking at him, I know you're probably not supposed to have judgments, but what are you thinking? Are you thinking like, this guy's not capable of this, or this guy's like some lost guy? Or are you thinking this is a dangerous.

[Scott]

If I showed you a picture of the Columbine kids before Columbine happened, what would you say if you just saw those two skinny kids with a trench coat on and dressed all goth? What if I showed you a picture of the Aurora shooter? Orange and yellow hair. What if I showed you a picture of Dylann Roof with a bowl haircut, probably about 140lbs soaking wet, but he's got on a gold gym tank top holding a rebel flag and a pistol. Most people are probably gonna look and go, oh, what a, you know, nerd, idiot, whatever, dweeb. They can't. But look, they all killed people. Some of them killed a lot of people.

[Michelle Shepherd]

Benji says he wants to do something in his home county soon. And he had been researching a local synagogue. In order to buy some time. Scott suggests he consider a different location.

[Scott]

Well, he had already said he was a felon. He'd already said that he had done prison time and he was out on parole, and it was in that county that he was planning on killing somebody or multiple people. And I kind of made the comment something to the effect of, hey, wouldn't you be kind of worried because you're known here?

[Michelle Shepherd]

Benji doesn't say much, and they wrap up their meeting. Scott then drives him home. Back at the hotel, Scott's sitting at the bar having a drink, when his undercover phone goes off. It's a message from Benji. He calls him right back.

[Scott]

He basically told me, hey, I was thinking about what you said. I like that. You're right. I am too known here. I'm gonna look at some places farther out, which means now we got some time. And he said, but between now and then, you think you could give me a 40?

[Michelle Shepherd]

It was almost too easy. Now they had something to charge him with. Because convicted felons are banned from owning a weapon under federal law.

[Scott]

CC 3415. It is approximately 11:14am February 15, 2017. I am going to Conway South Carolina to pick up Benji McDowell. I will be delivering a.40 caliber handgun to him that he has requested.

[Michelle Shepherd]

About a month after their first meeting, Scott picks Benji up from his mother's home and heads to the same hotel. Scott hands him a.40 caliber Glock and some bullets in exchange for $109.

[Scott]

As we're walking out to the SUV, which was strategically placed to be, you know, tactical advantages for the arrest team. Don't move.

[Unknown]

Get on the car.

[Scott]

Be cool, be cool.

[Michelle Shepherd]

Your friends in New York want you.

[Scott]

They came surrounded. Boom. Like, they just jumped out. And they. They arrested me, too. Slammed my head off the side of the car. This is a bump. Stand behind your back. It sounded bad. It didn't. It didn't feel that bad, but it sounded bad. It was like, bam. And I was like, dad gum, man. Don't y'all know I'm undercover?

[Michelle Shepherd]

As soon as Scott gets released, he starts driving back home to Tennessee. When he gets a call from the case team, they say Benji confessed to everything.

[Scott]

And he told them he was glad that the FBI got him because he was seriously getting ready to do something bad. So if there was any doubt whether or not he was capable or really thinking about it, they said, he said, no, I was getting ready to do something, like, legit. I was getting ready to go do it.

[Michelle Shepherd]

Court documents suggest that Benji McDowell had trouble fitting in as a child, and he struggled with mental illness as an adult. But he ended up pleading guilty after waiving the right to a competency hearing. And in the summer of 2018, he was sentenced to 33 months for being a felon in possession of a firearm and ammunition. He wanted to be the next Dylann Roof, and he could have very well been had he not been stopped in time. How many more Benjies are out there ready to take their grievances offline in the name of white supremacy? For most of his career, Scott had worked on cases that showed the extreme lengths people will go to for money, drugs, or revenge. But his investigations into the Klan and Benji would thrust him into a whole new world.

[Scott]

One of us said, well, what if there's kids there? And Helter Skelter. I remember it plain as day. He says, I don't have a problem killing commie kids. I'm like, all right, keep talking. I mean, the recording's rolling, right?

[Michelle Shepherd]

That's coming up on the final episode of Agent Palehorse. This series was written and produced by me, Michelle shepherd, senior producer Ashley Mack, and producer Eunice Kim. Mixing and sound design by Evan Kelly. Emily Connell is our digital producer. Our intern was Rachel De Gasparis. Special thanks to Andrew Friesen, the CBC Reference Library and Oralation Studios, Chris Oak and Cecil Fernandez are our executive producers, Tanya Springer is the senior manager and Arif Noorani is the Director of CBC Podcasts. This series was produced alongside a book I wrote with Scott, codename Pale How I Went Undercover to Expose America's Nazis. You can catch up with season one of White Hot Hate wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're enjoying this series and want to help new listeners discover the show, please take some time to give us a rating and review on whichever is your chosen app. It really helps.

[Unknown]

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