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Hello delicious friends, and welcome to who did what Now, The History podcast. That's not your history class with me, your host, Katy Charlwood, history harlot and reader of books. So people are trying to source something called Throat Coat for me. Apparently it's a thing that actors use to protect their voice and their vocal cords and shit. Because all of this scream whispering I have been doing for this concentration camp series, which, if you haven't seen it on social media, I am teaching about concentration camps and the concentration camp network currently. Specifically, you know, Nazi Germany and the Holocaust. But that will expand because nothing exists in a vacuum. Like, one of the things I found really challenging is because I've studied this like I studied this for seven years, right? And even I like forgot how absolutely gargantuan this topic is. And I'm trying to explain the just the whole lifespan of the concentration camp system. But again, that doesn't exist, again, in a vacuum because this is also part of. It's also part of like the Holocaust, Nazi Germany and all the different parts that spread to it. And so one thing led to the other. And why this system happened and why these camps were here and then they weren't. And you know how they each had a different purpose, and sometimes those overlapped, and sometimes it's like a whole. It's a whole thing, right? And so a lot of misinformation has come out about the Holocaust. Not only Holocaust deniers, but even, like, basic, like, ground facts of. Of the whole thing have. Have been misrepresented. Some intentionally. Some. I think it's like a game of telephone where you hear one thing and you hear one thing, and then it just kind of changes as the story grows and. And lives. Because we're not taught, I think, in the Western world specifically about oral history. We're not trained in it, and we're so focused on it having been written down in a book. But books have editors. And again, again, it's just a whole big mess. So I've been doing this, and it's. It's so big, and then I have questions people will ask, and then I'm trying to, like, fill out, you know, these. These facts. And a lot of the time I'm starting a video and I'm repeating myself with certain facts because even if I explain that it is a series, some people are not getting that. And they're like, well, what about this? And it's like, that. That was three videos ago, mate. I don't. It's a series. So it's all gonna go in a collection on my Patreon anyway for free and paid members. Because if I'm putting it free on social media, it's gonna be free on the Patreon. But you're gonna have to be a member to see it, because why not? And so, like, why else would you be. Why else would you be that intent in watching it? You know what I mean? So I'm gonna try and get the whole series on there, which I'm sort of working as I'm going along. Like, I've half a mind. Like, I know my old history teacher, like, retired. I'd have a mind to be like, jerry, Jerry, you got spidergram I can use. It's like. And a pointer, because I've got my lab coat. I've still got my lab coat. So, like, I could. I could use that. That's a long story, by the way, that one. But, yeah, it's been. It's been a whole stressful situation, so I've had to take time off from recording because I messed my voice up. So Much. And added to that, like, I've. It's. It's not great subject matter. And when you have anxiety and depressive states, it can be quite difficult for my ADHD brain. And so I've ended up cleaning my house, which is something I needed to do anyway. But I think it's slowly making me less overwhelmed, which has actually been inspired by a video I saw of a friend, mutual acquaintance, one of the above. And they were seeing how, with their anxiety, they had just let everything pile up, you know, unopened mail, the whole shebang, dishes in the sink. And I was like, oh, man, I should clean things. And so that's what I did. And I have a problem that a lot of other avid readers have, which is I. I know a lot of words. I just don't necessarily know how to pronounce those words because, in fairness, the English language itself is for languages and a trench coat. So the language rules don't always apply. But also, I don't speak Polish or German or. Or Hungarian or Czech. And so. Or Aust. Well, no, Austrians speak German anyway. But I don't speak any of those languages. Right? I don't. I don't know them. Right. And so I. I struggle with saying certain words because I don't know the language rules. And so I was mispronouncing words all over the shop, and, like, somebody would correct me and I'd do it right for the next time. I was talking about it in a video, but then I get a message from someone, and she's like, hey, Polish is my first language, so you want a hand? And I was like, yes, absolutely, I do. That way if I get it wrong, I can blame you. And she was like, super. And so she was teaching me how to pronounce, like, ma Danek, because it's. The inflection is in the middle of the word maidanik. And I was calling it majdanek, so Madonnik, Hermano, Belzec, P. Like, those. Those names that I just. I was not getting because they're Polish. And again, I don't speak. I don't speak any of the Baltic languages, I think. And so, yeah, that was. That was. That. That was. That was difficult. And my mouth. I found it really hard to get my mouth around a lot of those words. So, like, I'm trying really hard to make sure I am, like, pronouncing things correctly. And I'm like, I'm not even halfway through this whole series. And I don't know. Huh. It may end up being like, the never ending fucking story at this point. Just take me through the swamp marshes at this point. But it's one of those things where it's like. It's really, really important. It's really, really important. And there's a lot of information that people don't know. A lot of basics. And I feel like a lot of the time I'm just covering the basics and I'm thinking I might have to just do a few like, bittisodes even. It is part of it just because, like, at this point, I don't know how else I'm gonna cover everything, you know. But we are. Oh, we are quite a bit. And I've been talking a good while, so you're probably ready to hear about some history. So I know what you're thinking. You're thinking, katie, quit your jibber jabber and fact me. In fact you. I will. But first we've got to get our source on. Our sources are Murder at the Sleepy Lagoon Zoot Suits, Race and Riot in Guatamelli by Eduardo Obregion Pegian. Remember how I said about pronunciation being hard? I also do not speak Spanish. Okay, we have the Zoot Suit as both costume and symbol by Sarah Elizabeth Howard. The Legacy of the Sleepy Lagoon Murder Case. The Role of the Mexican American Community in the Making of Modern Los Angeles by G. Gonzalez. A History of Chicanos by R. Acuna. The Mexican American Struggle for Civil Rights in Los Angeles. The Sleepy Lagoon Case Revisited by CE Noriega. Threads of the Zoot Suit Riots by Antonio Franco. We also have articles from the LA Times, the New York Times, the LA Sentinel, and also our old favourites, history.com and biography.com I use it in comfortably. Good. Then let's begin. This is one of the stories I wanted to talk about for such a long time because there's so much to unpack, right? There's. There's all these different pieces to it and it is so often misrepresented because it's called the Zoot Suit Riots. Right? But it wasn't a riot. Like, that's a misnomer. It wasn't a riot. Like, it's just the facts being pushed a certain way through bias. And you see that with a lot of the news headlines that come out about this at the time. I can. Propaganda in the media. What? Anyway, as I said before, like, history does not exist in a vacuum. So we have to, as we have done before, slip into some context. Because there are three parts to this. You've got the buildup, you've got the Catalyst. And you've got the violence. And we have talked before about England colonizing half the world, but all the European powers were at it. So like France, Spain, the Dutch, like all over the place. And fun fact, I looked this up. Today, 7.5% of the world speak Spanish, which is interesting when you consider that there are, as of the time of recording, 196 recognized countries. So logically they should all have their own language. I mean, even as well, when you think that. I think I've said it before, like the concept of a country is actually a fairly, A fairly new one because we had like different states and principalities and we went from. You followed your like feudal lord, like your leader, your king. And then it wasn't so much geographical as it was political, which you could argue is still the way today, but it's, it's again, a lot, there's a lot to deal with there. And so. Oh, and if you're asking, about 20% of the world speaks English because hahahaha, population and colonizing. But that also includes people who speak it as a second, third, fourth, fifth language. Unlike most of us native English speakers who can only speak one, I speak one. Two. Well, it depends if you include all the halves of languages I speak where I'm like, I'm good to a point, and then afterwards I'm absolute rubbish. So Spain started colonizing what we know as California in the late 17th century. And it was still under Spanish rule until the end of the Mexican War of independence in 1821. And then it was under their power until the end of the Mexican American War in 1848, when Mexico ceded huge tracts of land and the southwest to the usa, areas that would become Nevada, Utah, California, most of Arizona and some of Colorado, Wyoming and New Mexico. New Mexico was part of Mexico. You say Shocked? I'm simply shocked. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sure the Texans came up with the name Albuquerque all by themselves. Yeah. Anywho, on the 9th of September 1850, California became the 31st state. And up until like the 1910s, the border between the USA and Mexico was fairly soft. And over the years there would be sort of like waves of immigration from Mexico into the U.S. and so by the 1940s, the Mexican community in the Southwest U.S. comprised of immigrants, but also people of Mexican heritage whose family had lived there since before California was even a state. That's just a fact that I felt was worth mentioning for absolutely no reason in this specific episode about American history, which I decided we were going to do this July. For absolutely no reason whatsoever. These groups faced racial segregation, economic exploitation, barriers to education and barriers to employment. Poverty was perpetuated with urban planning policies like redlining. So redlining was like a way of classifying neighborhoods for loans and the like. So it was set up by financial institutions to be like, oh, this area would be red if it had a medium to large population of minority residents and as such, was deemed too risky to loan to those in those addresses. This is, like, from the 1930s, which. This reminds me of, like, sociology class. Like, we have this whole thing about implicit bias. Because the first thing they teach you when you go to any, like, social science whatsoever is they teach you about bias. How we all have implicit bias. It's, like, native to us. And we just, as a result of, like, primary and secondary socialization at that point. And we have to, like, effectively, like, it's kind of like decolonizing the mind. Like, you have to remove yourself and become very aware of why you have that mindset. Like, why is this your belief system? Why is this, you know, why would you see this area as being a bad area? And I remember my sociology lecture. I remember. I mean, apart from him absolutely despising Joss Whedon before, it was cool. Like, he would argue with me about Buffy, and all the points he made were actually really valid. But I didn't like him insulting my comfort show. So I had issues. But, yes, I still love Buffy as a concept. And I love Sarah Michelle Gellar and Alison Hannigan and Rupert. But no, but not. Not Xander. Xander. Xander can go jump. But anyway, Joss Whedon self insert character. So my sociology lecturer, he was telling us, I remember for a long time, like, when it comes to, you know, your cv, don't put your age, don't put your address on it. Because those two things can lead to bias. Because they might think either you're too old, you're too young, or your address could show that you would be in a, like, not good neighborhood. And therefore the assumption would be that you would not be a decent candidate because you came from that area. And so that was something that was brought up, like, still, still in the. In the 2000 and tens. So this whole redlining situation, this forced stagnation in those communities, contributing to wealth inequality, segregation, etc. Because redlining is financial discrimination based on the perception of your address. Needless to say, these policies systematically segregated these neighbourhoods called barrios, which I think is just, like, Spanish for, like, neighborhood or, like, town or something. I am fairly certain it is One of those. So they were neglected by city authorities with inadequate infrastructure, lack of services and shockingly substandard housing. And then we have the schools. The schools that Mexican Americans went to were segregated and they were often overcrowded and underfunded, which just feeds back into that poverty cycle. And the housing wasn't much better. Between discriminatory housing policies and dodgy landlords, real estate agents, they made it difficult, if not impossible, for Mexican Americans to buy or rent homes in more attractive areas. And so like, areas like the Chavez Ravine were predominantly Mexican since the 1800s. And because of the area it was, it's a ravine, you know what I mean? So it was actually a lot of the places, a lot of it was still quite rural actually. Like it was, it wasn't like as built up as that area would be, like where Elysian park is now. So you're going to be shocked at this. Surprise, surprise. Police brutality, racial profiling and legal discrimination. What I know, thanks to institutionalized racism, they face significantly higher arrest rates, the aforementioned police brutality and incarceration than, you know, the Anglos would. Basically, they were more likely to get harsher punishments for doing less. And because the police were targeting Mexican American neighborhoods aggressively, I might add, this led to higher rates of harassment of the community and higher arrest rates. If you are focusing on arresting in a minority area, the amount of arrests you are going to have are going to be of minorities like this. Why is the, why is the arrest rate so high? Where are all your cops? Are they in this area? Are they? Oh, great. Oh, why do I keep catching freshwater salmon? I don't know. Because you're in the fucking river, mate. That's why. If you want to catch a sea bass, go to the fucking sea. Like, oh, because there's more of this here. That's why you're more likely to come across it. Like. So this was instrumental in shaping the perception of young Mexican people as delinquents and not just young Mexican people. Right. You also had like the whole Hispanic and Latino communities or the Latinx communities. And I know they are not the same thing. They are sometimes the same. And by that I mean they are in both communities. Like you can be Hispanic and Latinx because you can be a Spanish speaker from Latin America because, haha, colonization and intermarriage and all of this stuff. So like, yeah, you can be, you can be both. And so employment opportunities weren't much better with. You've got hard labour, you've got low wages and you've got limited job options and Moving your way up wasn't necessarily always the case. And you would typically earn less than your Anglo counterpart. Right. And there's a whole, there's a whole story about a coal mining village which I will tell you about sometime, which I haven't talked about because it makes me cry. And so you've got all of these factors contributing to tensions, you know, building up like steam building up in a boiling pot, right? And it comes to a point where the pressure builds up and it's gonna need to be released, like it's gonna explode because it's just building up. And you've got all of these, like, you've got bias, you've got inherent bias, like, and you've got this whole in group out group situation where the social, cultural, ethnic group that you belong to. The technical term which I hate is called tribalism. And we haven't got a word to replace that yet. But I think we need to figure it the fck out because group isn't good enough. Somebody was like group and it's like eh, that's just, that's just a thing. We need a specific word to replace it that isn't so fckin colonial. Um, so basically in your own group that you exist, your social group again, ethnic culture, nationality, however you want to put it, each of those subcultures that you're in, you want to look good in that. And that also means putting others down. Like that's, that's something that happens. It's not great, but that is like part of it. And you see this a lot when it comes to racial tensions, especially, especially by colonizing nations. And so when you have this cognitive bias from racial tension and this resentment, it is easy for rumours to spread. Enter zoot suits. These were a style that emerged in like the 1930s when swing dancing exploded onto the scene and the suits lent themselves to like movement and dancehalls were the place to be, like all dressed up, handbags and glad rags and oh, like they were doing, I want to say, jive dancing. I don't know any of the dancers, like I'll watch like Strictly Come Dancing. I'd be like, what a lovely fox drop. Don't know what any of it means other than don't have spaghetti arms, right? And, and I have no physical capabilities. I do not have rhythm or skill. Kinesthetic intelligence was the one that missed me. And also with my like back and everything. But I love, I'm obsessed with the Charleston. I love the Charleston. I've seen so many variations of it and in My little fantasy land where if I ever got married, which seriously I need to get married before my legs stop working. That's all I'm saying. Like that's, that's the aim because I, I may not have a lot of like skills, um, but I can aggressively like train myself to learn how to do the routine. Like I don't need to be good at it, right. I just need to not fall when I'm doing it. And you need a partner because it's a two person dance. Right. I would love to learn the Charleston. And my goal in my little magic fantasy land is if I ever got married, which if anyone does want to marry me, it's probably going to be for a green card. I'm closer now technically like to becoming a nun than I am to becoming married. Like that's not in a religious way, but like just as a life situation. And it's like I'd love to learn the Charleston and then that would be the wedding dance. Because I'm like, what the fck? She's doing the Charleston. I'd be like, yeah, look at me go, look at me crazy. I got them jazz hands and so the whole thing, yeah, I have access because I'm a dual citizen of the UK and Ireland to both Europe and the uk so I'm quite attractive as a green card bride. Anyone wanting to escape. So yeah, there's, there's that. So back, back to this. In Harlem, the zoot suit really took flight. So like you've got the Harlem Renaissance and you've just got, oh, just this expression of style and it's inspired by African American comedy shows from the 1920s. Oversized suits were all the rage amongst the fashion conscious. Baggy trousers with tapered cuffs to prevent tripping. Because again, how are you supposed to bust a move if you're gonna trip over your trousers, taper your cuffs. So the jackets had wide lapels and pronounced shoulder pads. So they were just like big. Right. Which is also why I think one of the things that inspired me to do this right now was watching Hamilton. So the, the 10 year anniversary of the Hamilton performance at the Tonys. It was the Tonys and, and Aaron Barr, Sir. I can't help it. I just think Aaron Barr should always be done in like a Scottish accent. Like hehe. So Aaron Bar, he is, he's wearing, I'm convinced is a zoot suit but just in black because like you've got Divi Diggs who's dressed like a black panther. Because I was watching on a phone screen so the first thing I noticed is that beret. And then I noticed the glove. And I have so many opinions about everything that happened on that was very, very importantly set up. Like, they were very specific. They did not fuck around, right? So Aaron Barr, he's wearing the zitsu, like, what I believe to be is a zitsu. I am thoroughly convinced. And so I'm just obsessed with, like, I'm obsessed with all the staging of it. And whenever I'm sad, actually, or when I'm feeling low, I will just watch the Hamilton performance because it's just so good. It's so good. And so I'll watch it and it'll bring me joy. And I've actually started watching, like, clips of Divi Diggs where He's doing, like, 75 words in a minute. And because he. He's very specific about dektion and enunciation. What I've noticed is ever since the issue with my mouth, when I was really, really sick, like a year and a half ago, when I had to go, like, the whole story, it's long and boring. But if you follow me for a while, you know, I was really unwell for. For a long time. And so I was. I was dealing with that. And I've noticed that my enunciation and the way that I use my mouth isn't quite the same. And I thought, oh, I want to try and get back on this. So that's a sidebar for you. So Hamilton brings me joy and Daveed Diggs, who I love so much. So zoot suits, they are made with lots of fabric. They've got wide lapels. You had, like, the gold watches, the pocket watches hanging from them. And these were often paired with fedoras or pork pie hats. I. I actually was very confused because I. What I thought was a pork pie hat in my brain is like a lady's little, just round hat. But that's not what a pork pie hat is. It's different here. And so. And so that was an interesting one for me. Like, that was a cultural difference. So that's the thing about hats as well. It used to be a social norm for men to wear hats, and I don't know why hats went out of style. But, like, it's a shame that we can't just have less clothes, says me, with my ever expanding wardrobe. But it's a shame we can't have, like, less clothes and more hats. You know, bring back hats. So for me, like, the whole zoot suit vibe, it's very much like Dandy. ASM was in the 18th century, too. Well, actually, Black dandyism today, like, which is a very vibrant, very. It's so beautiful, right? I love that, like, joy and aesthetic, because it's not just a style, it's a vibe. But it is actually a vibe, though. Like, it's. It is. It is a vibe. It's. It's these events they would host and they would just be unapologetically themselves. And it's wonderful to see because it's kind of like a response to what is seen as traditional masculinity, which isn't even that traditional. Like, in the grand scheme of things. It's not. It's a manufactured concept of masculinity in order to perpetuate the patriarchy and the misogyny that we are forced to live in because everyone is a victim of the patriarchy, but because men and women and everyone in between or out with even are affected by it. And if you don't fall within this masculine norm, which is like, what, Johnny Bravo. Johnny Bravo obsessively combed his hair like he was into grooming. He was very clean, but he was also a big, chunky himbo man, you know, but he would be seen as quite masculine. Johnny Bravo. And, sorry, in. It's like this. It's this fucking. Oh, Andrew Tate, who just looks like if somebody skinned a mole rat and then gave it a podcast. Like, I just cannot. I cannot. It's like, that is just an oxygen thief of a human. But anyway, like, the Congo subculture and things like that, it's just very. A beautiful celebration of what I would call masculinity. You know, zoot suits were a form of expression, and they were worn by, like, the big jazz players, like Cab Calloway. I love Cab Calloway. The zoot suits were, like, a response to the bleakness of the Great depression in the 1930s. And so African Americans, they start the zoot suit trend, and this, like, swells over into other marginalized communities and ethnic groups. So you have, like, Italian, Filipino, Japanese, and of course, Mexican Americans. Okay. And it was the youths who really leaned into this style. Many from the barrios had grown up children of two worlds. So you had, like, the Mexican tradition of their parents and the America that they were living in, you know, it was surrounding them. And so they were kind of balancing between and they were finding who they were. And I keep saying youths, because it wasn't really until the 1950s that we like properly labeled teenagers and we saw them as their own group, because you basically Went from child to adult. There was no midway. And now we've realized that adolescence, that sort of teenage years is like an important step, like, right in the middle, because that's when the hormones come in. Okay? That's when sht changes. And with these youths, like, most things that young people wear, they were put down by older generations and white people, the Anglos. But, yeah, like, older people especially seem to have an issue when any trend becomes a thing. Like, any subculture that exists, like, you know, punk, goth, emo, rockabilly, twee, cottagecore, grunge, dandyism, flapples, the bright young things, and any style which bucks the cultural norm is seen as less than. Like, do you remember there were hoodies? So when I was in college, one of the times, there was this whole thing about hoodies and how if someone wore a hoodie, they were more likely to be a criminal. It was associating criminality with an item of clothing. And a lot of young people wore hoodies. Like, but specifically, a lot of black and ethnic minorities wore hoodies. So, like, especially in, like, Ireland and the uk, the people that were wearing hoodies were people who were ethnic minorities. It wasn't worn by, like, it's now a normal thing, and everybody wears them because it's like sports gear. But, like, for a long time, it was seen as, like, the uniform of. Of, like, young thugs, you know, and zoot suits were linked to rebellion and cultural identity. Um, so it was like, as well. So what you've got is you've got a minority group. Yeah. Which is like Mexican Americans. And then within that, you have another minority group. So it's like a turtle on the back of another turtle. It's like a subculture within this minority group. But that's not what people complained about out loud. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. The very real issue was using too much fabric. Sure. Jan. The War Production Board tried to restrict the selling of zoot suits because they were worried about rationing silk and wool. I'm sorry, they were worried about wool? Did they think they were going to run out of sheep? Here's the thing about rationing during wartime. Like, it was a thing, but not everything needed to be rationed. Like, some of it was legit, but this is the propaganda for you. Some of it was legit, but some of it wasn't actually needed. But the government rationed it anyway to present the need to ration in order to support the war effort. So it was basically trying to force everybody to conform in order to prove that they Supported, you know, the war effort and the troops and all this stuff. And so the oversized zoot suits were perceived by affluent Anglos as the attire of gang members, thugs and juvenile delinquents. Oh no. The young people and their style. What are we gonna do? What are we gonna do? They're snapping their fingers at me. So things are already tense. But there's a war going on and most of the able bodied men are enlisting. To be fair, not just enlisting, many were drafted. And because so many men were being pulled into the military, able bodied men were being pulled into the military sectors of the population ended up in employment that they would not have had access to before. For example, women, even though they had obviously opportunities in the First World War, they were sort of pushed back into like the homemaker role. And then when World War II came out, they got thrust back into industry again. So they were working and like, in areas that they would not necessarily have had the opportunity to work in previously. And so naturally there was a lack of workers, there was a lack of workers needed in many, many sectors. And so the US government initiated programs to recruit workers. The government initiated programs to recruit workers because one of the places that was really suffering was agriculture. The US government made a deal with Mexico to bring workers into the US because they didn't have enough workers. They did not have enough men to work in agriculture, to work in the fields, to, you know, to shear the damn sheep that you need the wool for. You know what I mean? To grow, to harvest, to do all this backbreaking work, to make hay and silage and feed for cattle and, you know, all this jazz, right? Unsurprisingly, white people weren't happy with this influx of Mexican workers. And of course this did nothing to ease the racial tension and animosity to combat this. Like, because they were so mad that these people were coming over to help. There was a massive push to get white teenagers to work in the fields. And there's this huge recruitment drive to show them Hispanics whose busts, like, they literally bussed in white teenagers from like all over. But here's the fun fact. Not one of these boys lasted more than a day and a half because of just how hard the labor was. They, they thought they were going to have an easy ride, they were going to go out, they were going to work in a field. You know, Bob's your uncle, Fanny's your aunt. But no, no, no, no, no. They could not handle it. And so, like, there was no choice but to have all of these Agricultural workers brought in. And so you've got this country which is basically at war, like within and out with itself. And it's like you've got these non white communities who are already wrestling with inequality, segregation, racial prejudice and a perceived competition for jobs. Like that's already there. It's a fucking powder keg. And on top of this, there was the belief that zoot suiters were draft dodgers, which is wild when you think of just how many Mexican Americans enlisted in the military. Like a disproportionate amount. Lest we forget, one of the biggest like reasons of, of recruitment, like why people join the army is because of the benefits you get. Because of what you get paid, you get dental. Like you. Poverty feeds the military, okay? That's, that's what it does. So there were quite a lot of like Hispanic men in the army, right? They're there, they're fighting with you, you know. And most zoot suitors were not eligible to join because they were too young. They were not old enough to enlist, they were not old enough to be drafted. They're just young, okay? They couldn't join if they tried. You can't dodge the draft if you are legally too young to be drafted.