← Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood
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Katie Charlwood
I finally committed to getting back in shape. Hit the gym, ate clean, did everything right. But after two days I felt drained. My body just couldn't keep up. That's when I found Stem Regen. It supports the release of my own stem cells to repair, recover, and actually rebuild from the inside out. Now I'm not just working out, I'm bouncing back. I feel stronger, more energized, and more like myself every single day. Stem Regen didn't just change my routine, it changed my recovery. Empower your body to recover from within. Whether you are focused on recovery, longevity or just overall wellness, Stem Regen helps your body feel the best it can release the best version of you. Try Stem Regen today at STEMREGEN CO. Use code POD25 for 25% off your first order. Again, that's STEMREGEN code POD25 Acast helps.
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Unknown
Creators launch, grow and mine monetize their.
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Katie Charlwood
Podcasts everywhere acast.com.
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Unknown
Hey, do you want to hear the next big new tech podcast hit before anyone else? Check out the daily tech news show Experiment Week. We're swapping out our normal shows to try out some new ideas. We've done this before and launched big hits like behind the Data, the Tech John and more. This year we have exclusive Android faithful reactions to the Pixel 9 event. It's all on the DTNS feed, so starting August 11th, don't miss it.
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Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize.
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Katie Charlwood
Their podcasts everywhere acast.com.
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Unknown
Hello delicious friends, and welcome to who did what Now, The History podcast. That's not your history class with me, your host, Katy Charlwood, history harlot and reader of books. So people are trying to source something called Throat Coat for me. Apparently it's a thing that actors use to protect their voice and their vocal cords and shit. Because all of this scream whispering I have been doing for this concentration camp series, which, if you haven't seen it on social media, I am teaching about concentration camps and the concentration camp network currently. Specifically, you know, Nazi Germany and the Holocaust. But that will expand because nothing exists in a vacuum. Like, one of the things I found really challenging is because I've studied this like I studied this for seven years, right? And even I like forgot how absolutely gargantuan this topic is. And I'm trying to explain the just the whole lifespan of the concentration camp system. But again, that doesn't exist, again, in a vacuum because this is also part of. It's also part of like the Holocaust, Nazi Germany and all the different parts that spread to it. And so one thing led to the other. And why this system happened and why these camps were here and then they weren't. And you know how they each had a different purpose, and sometimes those overlapped, and sometimes it's like a whole. It's a whole thing, right? And so a lot of misinformation has come out about the Holocaust. Not only Holocaust deniers, but even, like, basic, like, ground facts of. Of the whole thing have. Have been misrepresented. Some intentionally. Some. I think it's like a game of telephone where you hear one thing and you hear one thing, and then it just kind of changes as the story grows and. And lives. Because we're not taught, I think, in the Western world specifically about oral history. We're not trained in it, and we're so focused on it having been written down in a book. But books have editors. And again, again, it's just a whole big mess. So I've been doing this, and it's. It's so big, and then I have questions people will ask, and then I'm trying to, like, fill out, you know, these. These facts. And a lot of the time I'm starting a video and I'm repeating myself with certain facts because even if I explain that it is a series, some people are not getting that. And they're like, well, what about this? And it's like, that. That was three videos ago, mate. I don't. It's a series. So it's all gonna go in a collection on my Patreon anyway for free and paid members. Because if I'm putting it free on social media, it's gonna be free on the Patreon. But you're gonna have to be a member to see it, because why not? And so, like, why else would you be. Why else would you be that intent in watching it? You know what I mean? So I'm gonna try and get the whole series on there, which I'm sort of working as I'm going along. Like, I've half a mind. Like, I know my old history teacher, like, retired. I'd have a mind to be like, jerry, Jerry, you got spidergram I can use. It's like. And a pointer, because I've got my lab coat. I've still got my lab coat. So, like, I could. I could use that. That's a long story, by the way, that one. But, yeah, it's been. It's been a whole stressful situation, so I've had to take time off from recording because I messed my voice up. So Much. And added to that, like, I've. It's. It's not great subject matter. And when you have anxiety and depressive states, it can be quite difficult for my ADHD brain. And so I've ended up cleaning my house, which is something I needed to do anyway. But I think it's slowly making me less overwhelmed, which has actually been inspired by a video I saw of a friend, mutual acquaintance, one of the above. And they were seeing how, with their anxiety, they had just let everything pile up, you know, unopened mail, the whole shebang, dishes in the sink. And I was like, oh, man, I should clean things. And so that's what I did. And I have a problem that a lot of other avid readers have, which is I. I know a lot of words. I just don't necessarily know how to pronounce those words because, in fairness, the English language itself is for languages and a trench coat. So the language rules don't always apply. But also, I don't speak Polish or German or. Or Hungarian or Czech. And so. Or Aust. Well, no, Austrians speak German anyway. But I don't speak any of those languages. Right? I don't. I don't know them. Right. And so I. I struggle with saying certain words because I don't know the language rules. And so I was mispronouncing words all over the shop, and, like, somebody would correct me and I'd do it right for the next time. I was talking about it in a video, but then I get a message from someone, and she's like, hey, Polish is my first language, so you want a hand? And I was like, yes, absolutely, I do. That way if I get it wrong, I can blame you. And she was like, super. And so she was teaching me how to pronounce, like, ma Danek, because it's. The inflection is in the middle of the word maidanik. And I was calling it majdanek, so Madonnik, Hermano, Belzec, P. Like, those. Those names that I just. I was not getting because they're Polish. And again, I don't speak. I don't speak any of the Baltic languages, I think. And so, yeah, that was. That was. That. That was. That was difficult. And my mouth. I found it really hard to get my mouth around a lot of those words. So, like, I'm trying really hard to make sure I am, like, pronouncing things correctly. And I'm like, I'm not even halfway through this whole series. And I don't know. Huh. It may end up being like, the never ending fucking story at this point. Just take me through the swamp marshes at this point. But it's one of those things where it's like. It's really, really important. It's really, really important. And there's a lot of information that people don't know. A lot of basics. And I feel like a lot of the time I'm just covering the basics and I'm thinking I might have to just do a few like, bittisodes even. It is part of it just because, like, at this point, I don't know how else I'm gonna cover everything, you know. But we are. Oh, we are quite a bit. And I've been talking a good while, so you're probably ready to hear about some history. So I know what you're thinking. You're thinking, katie, quit your jibber jabber and fact me. In fact you. I will. But first we've got to get our source on. Our sources are Murder at the Sleepy Lagoon Zoot Suits, Race and Riot in Guatamelli by Eduardo Obregion Pegian. Remember how I said about pronunciation being hard? I also do not speak Spanish. Okay, we have the Zoot Suit as both costume and symbol by Sarah Elizabeth Howard. The Legacy of the Sleepy Lagoon Murder Case. The Role of the Mexican American Community in the Making of Modern Los Angeles by G. Gonzalez. A History of Chicanos by R. Acuna. The Mexican American Struggle for Civil Rights in Los Angeles. The Sleepy Lagoon Case Revisited by CE Noriega. Threads of the Zoot Suit Riots by Antonio Franco. We also have articles from the LA Times, the New York Times, the LA Sentinel, and also our old favourites, history.com and biography.com I use it in comfortably. Good. Then let's begin. This is one of the stories I wanted to talk about for such a long time because there's so much to unpack, right? There's. There's all these different pieces to it and it is so often misrepresented because it's called the Zoot Suit Riots. Right? But it wasn't a riot. Like, that's a misnomer. It wasn't a riot. Like, it's just the facts being pushed a certain way through bias. And you see that with a lot of the news headlines that come out about this at the time. I can. Propaganda in the media. What? Anyway, as I said before, like, history does not exist in a vacuum. So we have to, as we have done before, slip into some context. Because there are three parts to this. You've got the buildup, you've got the Catalyst. And you've got the violence. And we have talked before about England colonizing half the world, but all the European powers were at it. So like France, Spain, the Dutch, like all over the place. And fun fact, I looked this up. Today, 7.5% of the world speak Spanish, which is interesting when you consider that there are, as of the time of recording, 196 recognized countries. So logically they should all have their own language. I mean, even as well, when you think that. I think I've said it before, like the concept of a country is actually a fairly, A fairly new one because we had like different states and principalities and we went from. You followed your like feudal lord, like your leader, your king. And then it wasn't so much geographical as it was political, which you could argue is still the way today, but it's, it's again, a lot, there's a lot to deal with there. And so. Oh, and if you're asking, about 20% of the world speaks English because hahahaha, population and colonizing. But that also includes people who speak it as a second, third, fourth, fifth language. Unlike most of us native English speakers who can only speak one, I speak one. Two. Well, it depends if you include all the halves of languages I speak where I'm like, I'm good to a point, and then afterwards I'm absolute rubbish. So Spain started colonizing what we know as California in the late 17th century. And it was still under Spanish rule until the end of the Mexican War of independence in 1821. And then it was under their power until the end of the Mexican American War in 1848, when Mexico ceded huge tracts of land and the southwest to the usa, areas that would become Nevada, Utah, California, most of Arizona and some of Colorado, Wyoming and New Mexico. New Mexico was part of Mexico. You say Shocked? I'm simply shocked. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sure the Texans came up with the name Albuquerque all by themselves. Yeah. Anywho, on the 9th of September 1850, California became the 31st state. And up until like the 1910s, the border between the USA and Mexico was fairly soft. And over the years there would be sort of like waves of immigration from Mexico into the U.S. and so by the 1940s, the Mexican community in the Southwest U.S. comprised of immigrants, but also people of Mexican heritage whose family had lived there since before California was even a state. That's just a fact that I felt was worth mentioning for absolutely no reason in this specific episode about American history, which I decided we were going to do this July. For absolutely no reason whatsoever. These groups faced racial segregation, economic exploitation, barriers to education and barriers to employment. Poverty was perpetuated with urban planning policies like redlining. So redlining was like a way of classifying neighborhoods for loans and the like. So it was set up by financial institutions to be like, oh, this area would be red if it had a medium to large population of minority residents and as such, was deemed too risky to loan to those in those addresses. This is, like, from the 1930s, which. This reminds me of, like, sociology class. Like, we have this whole thing about implicit bias. Because the first thing they teach you when you go to any, like, social science whatsoever is they teach you about bias. How we all have implicit bias. It's, like, native to us. And we just, as a result of, like, primary and secondary socialization at that point. And we have to, like, effectively, like, it's kind of like decolonizing the mind. Like, you have to remove yourself and become very aware of why you have that mindset. Like, why is this your belief system? Why is this, you know, why would you see this area as being a bad area? And I remember my sociology lecture. I remember. I mean, apart from him absolutely despising Joss Whedon before, it was cool. Like, he would argue with me about Buffy, and all the points he made were actually really valid. But I didn't like him insulting my comfort show. So I had issues. But, yes, I still love Buffy as a concept. And I love Sarah Michelle Gellar and Alison Hannigan and Rupert. But no, but not. Not Xander. Xander. Xander can go jump. But anyway, Joss Whedon self insert character. So my sociology lecturer, he was telling us, I remember for a long time, like, when it comes to, you know, your cv, don't put your age, don't put your address on it. Because those two things can lead to bias. Because they might think either you're too old, you're too young, or your address could show that you would be in a, like, not good neighborhood. And therefore the assumption would be that you would not be a decent candidate because you came from that area. And so that was something that was brought up, like, still, still in the. In the 2000 and tens. So this whole redlining situation, this forced stagnation in those communities, contributing to wealth inequality, segregation, etc. Because redlining is financial discrimination based on the perception of your address. Needless to say, these policies systematically segregated these neighbourhoods called barrios, which I think is just, like, Spanish for, like, neighborhood or, like, town or something. I am fairly certain it is One of those. So they were neglected by city authorities with inadequate infrastructure, lack of services and shockingly substandard housing. And then we have the schools. The schools that Mexican Americans went to were segregated and they were often overcrowded and underfunded, which just feeds back into that poverty cycle. And the housing wasn't much better. Between discriminatory housing policies and dodgy landlords, real estate agents, they made it difficult, if not impossible, for Mexican Americans to buy or rent homes in more attractive areas. And so like, areas like the Chavez Ravine were predominantly Mexican since the 1800s. And because of the area it was, it's a ravine, you know what I mean? So it was actually a lot of the places, a lot of it was still quite rural actually. Like it was, it wasn't like as built up as that area would be, like where Elysian park is now. So you're going to be shocked at this. Surprise, surprise. Police brutality, racial profiling and legal discrimination. What I know, thanks to institutionalized racism, they face significantly higher arrest rates, the aforementioned police brutality and incarceration than, you know, the Anglos would. Basically, they were more likely to get harsher punishments for doing less. And because the police were targeting Mexican American neighborhoods aggressively, I might add, this led to higher rates of harassment of the community and higher arrest rates. If you are focusing on arresting in a minority area, the amount of arrests you are going to have are going to be of minorities like this. Why is the, why is the arrest rate so high? Where are all your cops? Are they in this area? Are they? Oh, great. Oh, why do I keep catching freshwater salmon? I don't know. Because you're in the fucking river, mate. That's why. If you want to catch a sea bass, go to the fucking sea. Like, oh, because there's more of this here. That's why you're more likely to come across it. Like. So this was instrumental in shaping the perception of young Mexican people as delinquents and not just young Mexican people. Right. You also had like the whole Hispanic and Latino communities or the Latinx communities. And I know they are not the same thing. They are sometimes the same. And by that I mean they are in both communities. Like you can be Hispanic and Latinx because you can be a Spanish speaker from Latin America because, haha, colonization and intermarriage and all of this stuff. So like, yeah, you can be, you can be both. And so employment opportunities weren't much better with. You've got hard labour, you've got low wages and you've got limited job options and Moving your way up wasn't necessarily always the case. And you would typically earn less than your Anglo counterpart. Right. And there's a whole, there's a whole story about a coal mining village which I will tell you about sometime, which I haven't talked about because it makes me cry. And so you've got all of these factors contributing to tensions, you know, building up like steam building up in a boiling pot, right? And it comes to a point where the pressure builds up and it's gonna need to be released, like it's gonna explode because it's just building up. And you've got all of these, like, you've got bias, you've got inherent bias, like, and you've got this whole in group out group situation where the social, cultural, ethnic group that you belong to. The technical term which I hate is called tribalism. And we haven't got a word to replace that yet. But I think we need to figure it the fck out because group isn't good enough. Somebody was like group and it's like eh, that's just, that's just a thing. We need a specific word to replace it that isn't so fckin colonial. Um, so basically in your own group that you exist, your social group again, ethnic culture, nationality, however you want to put it, each of those subcultures that you're in, you want to look good in that. And that also means putting others down. Like that's, that's something that happens. It's not great, but that is like part of it. And you see this a lot when it comes to racial tensions, especially, especially by colonizing nations. And so when you have this cognitive bias from racial tension and this resentment, it is easy for rumours to spread. Enter zoot suits. These were a style that emerged in like the 1930s when swing dancing exploded onto the scene and the suits lent themselves to like movement and dancehalls were the place to be, like all dressed up, handbags and glad rags and oh, like they were doing, I want to say, jive dancing. I don't know any of the dancers, like I'll watch like Strictly Come Dancing. I'd be like, what a lovely fox drop. Don't know what any of it means other than don't have spaghetti arms, right? And, and I have no physical capabilities. I do not have rhythm or skill. Kinesthetic intelligence was the one that missed me. And also with my like back and everything. But I love, I'm obsessed with the Charleston. I love the Charleston. I've seen so many variations of it and in My little fantasy land where if I ever got married, which seriously I need to get married before my legs stop working. That's all I'm saying. Like that's, that's the aim because I, I may not have a lot of like skills, um, but I can aggressively like train myself to learn how to do the routine. Like I don't need to be good at it, right. I just need to not fall when I'm doing it. And you need a partner because it's a two person dance. Right. I would love to learn the Charleston. And my goal in my little magic fantasy land is if I ever got married, which if anyone does want to marry me, it's probably going to be for a green card. I'm closer now technically like to becoming a nun than I am to becoming married. Like that's not in a religious way, but like just as a life situation. And it's like I'd love to learn the Charleston and then that would be the wedding dance. Because I'm like, what the fck? She's doing the Charleston. I'd be like, yeah, look at me go, look at me crazy. I got them jazz hands and so the whole thing, yeah, I have access because I'm a dual citizen of the UK and Ireland to both Europe and the uk so I'm quite attractive as a green card bride. Anyone wanting to escape. So yeah, there's, there's that. So back, back to this. In Harlem, the zoot suit really took flight. So like you've got the Harlem Renaissance and you've just got, oh, just this expression of style and it's inspired by African American comedy shows from the 1920s. Oversized suits were all the rage amongst the fashion conscious. Baggy trousers with tapered cuffs to prevent tripping. Because again, how are you supposed to bust a move if you're gonna trip over your trousers, taper your cuffs. So the jackets had wide lapels and pronounced shoulder pads. So they were just like big. Right. Which is also why I think one of the things that inspired me to do this right now was watching Hamilton. So the, the 10 year anniversary of the Hamilton performance at the Tonys. It was the Tonys and, and Aaron Barr, Sir. I can't help it. I just think Aaron Barr should always be done in like a Scottish accent. Like hehe. So Aaron Bar, he is, he's wearing, I'm convinced is a zoot suit but just in black because like you've got Divi Diggs who's dressed like a black panther. Because I was watching on a phone screen so the first thing I noticed is that beret. And then I noticed the glove. And I have so many opinions about everything that happened on that was very, very importantly set up. Like, they were very specific. They did not fuck around, right? So Aaron Barr, he's wearing the zitsu, like, what I believe to be is a zitsu. I am thoroughly convinced. And so I'm just obsessed with, like, I'm obsessed with all the staging of it. And whenever I'm sad, actually, or when I'm feeling low, I will just watch the Hamilton performance because it's just so good. It's so good. And so I'll watch it and it'll bring me joy. And I've actually started watching, like, clips of Divi Diggs where He's doing, like, 75 words in a minute. And because he. He's very specific about dektion and enunciation. What I've noticed is ever since the issue with my mouth, when I was really, really sick, like a year and a half ago, when I had to go, like, the whole story, it's long and boring. But if you follow me for a while, you know, I was really unwell for. For a long time. And so I was. I was dealing with that. And I've noticed that my enunciation and the way that I use my mouth isn't quite the same. And I thought, oh, I want to try and get back on this. So that's a sidebar for you. So Hamilton brings me joy and Daveed Diggs, who I love so much. So zoot suits, they are made with lots of fabric. They've got wide lapels. You had, like, the gold watches, the pocket watches hanging from them. And these were often paired with fedoras or pork pie hats. I. I actually was very confused because I. What I thought was a pork pie hat in my brain is like a lady's little, just round hat. But that's not what a pork pie hat is. It's different here. And so. And so that was an interesting one for me. Like, that was a cultural difference. So that's the thing about hats as well. It used to be a social norm for men to wear hats, and I don't know why hats went out of style. But, like, it's a shame that we can't just have less clothes, says me, with my ever expanding wardrobe. But it's a shame we can't have, like, less clothes and more hats. You know, bring back hats. So for me, like, the whole zoot suit vibe, it's very much like Dandy. ASM was in the 18th century, too. Well, actually, Black dandyism today, like, which is a very vibrant, very. It's so beautiful, right? I love that, like, joy and aesthetic, because it's not just a style, it's a vibe. But it is actually a vibe, though. Like, it's. It is. It is a vibe. It's. It's these events they would host and they would just be unapologetically themselves. And it's wonderful to see because it's kind of like a response to what is seen as traditional masculinity, which isn't even that traditional. Like, in the grand scheme of things. It's not. It's a manufactured concept of masculinity in order to perpetuate the patriarchy and the misogyny that we are forced to live in because everyone is a victim of the patriarchy, but because men and women and everyone in between or out with even are affected by it. And if you don't fall within this masculine norm, which is like, what, Johnny Bravo. Johnny Bravo obsessively combed his hair like he was into grooming. He was very clean, but he was also a big, chunky himbo man, you know, but he would be seen as quite masculine. Johnny Bravo. And, sorry, in. It's like this. It's this fucking. Oh, Andrew Tate, who just looks like if somebody skinned a mole rat and then gave it a podcast. Like, I just cannot. I cannot. It's like, that is just an oxygen thief of a human. But anyway, like, the Congo subculture and things like that, it's just very. A beautiful celebration of what I would call masculinity. You know, zoot suits were a form of expression, and they were worn by, like, the big jazz players, like Cab Calloway. I love Cab Calloway. The zoot suits were, like, a response to the bleakness of the Great depression in the 1930s. And so African Americans, they start the zoot suit trend, and this, like, swells over into other marginalized communities and ethnic groups. So you have, like, Italian, Filipino, Japanese, and of course, Mexican Americans. Okay. And it was the youths who really leaned into this style. Many from the barrios had grown up children of two worlds. So you had, like, the Mexican tradition of their parents and the America that they were living in, you know, it was surrounding them. And so they were kind of balancing between and they were finding who they were. And I keep saying youths, because it wasn't really until the 1950s that we like properly labeled teenagers and we saw them as their own group, because you basically Went from child to adult. There was no midway. And now we've realized that adolescence, that sort of teenage years is like an important step, like, right in the middle, because that's when the hormones come in. Okay? That's when sht changes. And with these youths, like, most things that young people wear, they were put down by older generations and white people, the Anglos. But, yeah, like, older people especially seem to have an issue when any trend becomes a thing. Like, any subculture that exists, like, you know, punk, goth, emo, rockabilly, twee, cottagecore, grunge, dandyism, flapples, the bright young things, and any style which bucks the cultural norm is seen as less than. Like, do you remember there were hoodies? So when I was in college, one of the times, there was this whole thing about hoodies and how if someone wore a hoodie, they were more likely to be a criminal. It was associating criminality with an item of clothing. And a lot of young people wore hoodies. Like, but specifically, a lot of black and ethnic minorities wore hoodies. So, like, especially in, like, Ireland and the uk, the people that were wearing hoodies were people who were ethnic minorities. It wasn't worn by, like, it's now a normal thing, and everybody wears them because it's like sports gear. But, like, for a long time, it was seen as, like, the uniform of. Of, like, young thugs, you know, and zoot suits were linked to rebellion and cultural identity. Um, so it was like, as well. So what you've got is you've got a minority group. Yeah. Which is like Mexican Americans. And then within that, you have another minority group. So it's like a turtle on the back of another turtle. It's like a subculture within this minority group. But that's not what people complained about out loud. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. The very real issue was using too much fabric. Sure. Jan. The War Production Board tried to restrict the selling of zoot suits because they were worried about rationing silk and wool. I'm sorry, they were worried about wool? Did they think they were going to run out of sheep? Here's the thing about rationing during wartime. Like, it was a thing, but not everything needed to be rationed. Like, some of it was legit, but this is the propaganda for you. Some of it was legit, but some of it wasn't actually needed. But the government rationed it anyway to present the need to ration in order to support the war effort. So it was basically trying to force everybody to conform in order to prove that they Supported, you know, the war effort and the troops and all this stuff. And so the oversized zoot suits were perceived by affluent Anglos as the attire of gang members, thugs and juvenile delinquents. Oh no. The young people and their style. What are we gonna do? What are we gonna do? They're snapping their fingers at me. So things are already tense. But there's a war going on and most of the able bodied men are enlisting. To be fair, not just enlisting, many were drafted. And because so many men were being pulled into the military, able bodied men were being pulled into the military sectors of the population ended up in employment that they would not have had access to before. For example, women, even though they had obviously opportunities in the First World War, they were sort of pushed back into like the homemaker role. And then when World War II came out, they got thrust back into industry again. So they were working and like, in areas that they would not necessarily have had the opportunity to work in previously. And so naturally there was a lack of workers, there was a lack of workers needed in many, many sectors. And so the US government initiated programs to recruit workers. The government initiated programs to recruit workers because one of the places that was really suffering was agriculture. The US government made a deal with Mexico to bring workers into the US because they didn't have enough workers. They did not have enough men to work in agriculture, to work in the fields, to, you know, to shear the damn sheep that you need the wool for. You know what I mean? To grow, to harvest, to do all this backbreaking work, to make hay and silage and feed for cattle and, you know, all this jazz, right? Unsurprisingly, white people weren't happy with this influx of Mexican workers. And of course this did nothing to ease the racial tension and animosity to combat this. Like, because they were so mad that these people were coming over to help. There was a massive push to get white teenagers to work in the fields. And there's this huge recruitment drive to show them Hispanics whose busts, like, they literally bussed in white teenagers from like all over. But here's the fun fact. Not one of these boys lasted more than a day and a half because of just how hard the labor was. They, they thought they were going to have an easy ride, they were going to go out, they were going to work in a field. You know, Bob's your uncle, Fanny's your aunt. But no, no, no, no, no. They could not handle it. And so, like, there was no choice but to have all of these Agricultural workers brought in. And so you've got this country which is basically at war, like within and out with itself. And it's like you've got these non white communities who are already wrestling with inequality, segregation, racial prejudice and a perceived competition for jobs. Like that's already there. It's a fucking powder keg. And on top of this, there was the belief that zoot suiters were draft dodgers, which is wild when you think of just how many Mexican Americans enlisted in the military. Like a disproportionate amount. Lest we forget, one of the biggest like reasons of, of recruitment, like why people join the army is because of the benefits you get. Because of what you get paid, you get dental. Like you. Poverty feeds the military, okay? That's, that's what it does. So there were quite a lot of like Hispanic men in the army, right? They're there, they're fighting with you, you know. And most zoot suitors were not eligible to join because they were too young. They were not old enough to enlist, they were not old enough to be drafted. They're just young, okay? They couldn't join if they tried. You can't dodge the draft if you are legally too young to be drafted.
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Katie Charlwood
Say hello to Mia.
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Unknown
Hey there.
- [39:06]
Katie Charlwood
Mia runs a pet grooming service in Chicago. But getting new clients was rough until.
- [39:10]
Unknown
I started using acast. I recorded my ad, targeted pet owners in the area and let ACAST do the rest. Now people all over the city know about my grooming services.
- [39:19]
Katie Charlwood
Mia's business is looking sharp. What's your secret for happy pets and happy clients?
- [39:23]
Unknown
A fresh cut, a friendly vibe and a well placed podcast ad.
- [39:27]
Katie Charlwood
Get the word out about your business through Acast. Visit go.acast.com advertise to get started.
- [39:42]
Unknown
And this brings us to our catalyst, the Sleepy lagoon murder. On 2nd August 1942, there's this reservoir in Maywood by the Ely river. And it was called Sleepy Lagoon. And it was where all the youngins would hang out. And so there was a party followed by an altercation. And in the morning, Jose Giado Diaz was found crumpled on the ground, unconscious, bruised and bloody. He was taken to the hospital but succumbed to his injuries. His autopsy showed that he had alcohol in his system and enough alcohol to be drunk, like he was intoxicated. And they could not determine a cause of death because he had blunt head trauma and multiple stab wounds. And they came up with two theories. One, that it was just a violent attack, it was a fight that went wrong and he got stabbed and he Got beaten. And the other theory is that again, another altercation where he was stabbed, but that he was also thrown out of an automobile, which would have resulted in the head trauma. Like they had two ideas, but they didn't have anything definitely. So the cops be copping and they arrest Henley Levaz and 20something members of what they called the 38th Street Gang for the alleged murder of Jose Giado Diaz. And so there was this like, concern that these were like pachuco rival gangs. Pachuco is like just a word for these like young Hispanic like groups. And the media pushes for action against Zutsuros. And eight days later, thanks to Governor Colbert Olson, he sanctions a crackdown. And the LA Police round up 600 Latino and Hispanic people, men and women, charges them with a variety of offenses from suspicion of armed robbery, assault, and to other violent crimes. Like, because they're rounding like so many members of these communities, like families just start putting out curfews or like, don't go out past this time, get back home because they're genuinely worried about, you know, this racial prejudice and how it is affecting their families. So the trial itself is presided over by George Charles William Frickey, known as San Quentin Frickey because of just how often he sentenced people there. So 22 youths were arrested, 17 were indicted, and they were all between the ages of 14 and, and 22. And the whole trial, the whole trial spoilers is a miscarriage of justice. I know you're shocked. You're shocked at this trial in the 1940s against these Hispanic youths. What? Yes, the DEA demanded that the defense wear zoot suits so that, you know, they would be recognizable. And so Frickett refused to let them groom themselves. So they weren't allowed to get a haircut, they weren't allowed to have clean clothes. And so they were presented to their jury. Right. And they basically wore the same clothes for the entirety of the time that they were presented. So they're getting more dirty and dishevelled as the trial continues in order for them to be perceived in a way that was, well, less than optimum. And remember as well, this was a subculture that took pride in their appearance. So this was a double pronged attack. So not only are they looking sort of more disgruntled or more dishevelled. Sorry for, for the jury, but it's also like a way of kicking them when they're down because they really took pride in how they looked because that was very much part of their cultural identity or their subcultural identity, if you Will. And the courtroom is small. There are 17 defendants. So anytime the defendants tried to confer with their clients, the judge ruled that it was disruptive. And so they're trying to like, like he's trying to talk to his clients, but they're teenagers. And they're being teenagers because, like, one of the dudes or a few of them actually had never met the victim. And so they're like, I didn't do it. There's no way I'm gonna get, like, done for this. Whatever. So here's the thing. The judge allows and I'm going to use the term loosely, an expert witness to come in and speak. Iduran Aires, the chief foreign relations. The chief of foreign relations, Bureau of Los Angeles Sheriff's Office. He testified that Mexicans had a blood thirst and a biological predisposition to criminal violence. Phrenology. Are we back to phrenology? What the prosecution. So they tried to get these gals from the 38th street area to testify against the boys, but they said, whatever the 1940s Spanish slang is for oink, oink, motherfuckers. Effectively, they said, fuck this, we're a game of soldiers. And by that I mean they politely declined to acquiesce with their request. So because they refused to cooperate afterwards, what happened is they were forcibly removed from their parents custody and detained in reform schools. Like, so they were actually taken to the Ventura School for Girls, and they did not leave until they were adults. Like, they were not allowed to leave because they refused to testify against these boys. So the guys on trial, they're facing an all white jury. These young men, again, some of whom who had never even met the victim, were just like, sometimes like, rolling their eyes. Like, I mean, I roll my eyes too. If somebody was like, you have a genetic predisposition, like, for murder. Like, what the fuck, dude? Oh, you're an expert, are you? Of foreign relations? No. Simply, no, sir. The trial lasted until January of 1943. Five of the fellas are acquitted. And because they're, like, deemed as, like, guilty of assault. But Esmael Pera, Henry Inostrova, Gus Zamora, Jack Melendez, Victor Thompson, Manuel Reyes, Angel Padilla, Robert Telles, Manuel Delgado, John Matus and Jose Ruiz. Ruiz were convicted. I'm sorry if I've buggered up those names, but I wanted to make sure I said them like, I wanted to say their names, because I think that's important. And I. I did my best. I don't speak Spanish. I tried a panic tone as I was like, what sound does the Z make? I've forgotten the sound of the Z. So the trial and the media circus surrounding it just stoked these racial tensions as it basically scapegoated these teens as the cause of social ills and crimes. The convictions were overturned two years later thanks to the Sleepy Lagoon Defence Committee, but the charges were never fully dropped, like never formally cleared. So the murder is still unsolved to this day. And also in addition, furthermore, most of the men involved in the trial were still in prison when the Zuzu riots happened. And so remember, those 600 Mexican Americans rounded up, mainly Mexican Americans. They also had trials in January and there were like so many convictions were handed down in what many called sham proceedings. I mean, if you're gonna arrest and try and convict like 600 people, like, yeah, there's no way you can do that in a reasonable and ethical manner. Like, that's just not possible. Like, that's not a thing. And so because they were convicted of this crime, like, it just added another layer onto it along with all of these people. So you've got all of these members of a minority community and they're being convicted and on these trumped up charges along with this group of young men who are also part of that community who are being convicted of something they did not do. And it just focuses like news outlets and reports and media like, on them and showing them as delinquents, the bad guys, the root cause of the problem, as opposed to many other factors, you know, so I'm gonna like circle back to zoot suits for a second. So with the rationing, I'd mentioned this before, with the rationing and the Wartime Productions Board, they limited the use of wool in March 1942. And it also banned like, extra design elements that required extra fabrics, including pocket flaps, pleats, cuffs and vests. And so the oversized swimsuits with their extra fabric, large lapels, well, they were sort of. They were not really optimum because of how much extra fabric they used. So it was a bit of an issue. And so tailors worked around this by making the suits from other fabrics. They were like, it's okay, use something else. In October 1942, the wartime productions board banned those fabrics as well. And so it became illegal to make a zoot suit, but not to wear one. But the LA tailors, and probably other tailors too, did it anyway. And now the city of la, it did consider banning Zertzzit altogether, but ultimately it did not. Which brings me to, like, President Franklin D. Roosevelt and his good neighbor policy which its whole purpose was to improve US Relations with Latin America. And so news outlets and media stopped using the word Mexican crime reporting, choosing instead to use terms like zoot suited thugs. Remember what I said earlier about the hoodies? It's like, oh, a hoodie did this and a hoodie did that. It's like, okay, so, yeah, it would use terms like that. And that would mean, like, zoot suited thug was just a way of going Mexican delinquent. Like, that's what that was. And so every time that they, like, used the term like suited thugs, they may as well have just written Mexican in all caps and underlined like this. Furthered the stereotype that Mexican American youths were criminals, gangsters, and zoot suits. And reinforcing that connection between clothing and. And creme. Like the hoodie. Okay, like the hoodie.
- [53:03]
Katie Charlwood
Hello, listeners, meet Lisa.
- [53:05]
Unknown
Hey there.
- [53:06]
Katie Charlwood
Lisa runs an online boutique specializing in sustainable fashion. With acast, she found a whole new way to reach eco conscious shoppers.
- [53:14]
Unknown
Yep, I recorded a quick ad, targeted listeners interested in fashion and sustainability using acast's audience attributes targeting feature and set my budget. Before I knew it, people all over were hearing about my shop.
- [53:26]
Katie Charlwood
Now that's a smart way to grow your business. Hey, Lisa, what's trending right now?
- [53:30]
Unknown
Shopping sustainably. And my sales, of course.
- [53:32]
Katie Charlwood
Start reaching your ideal audience through podcast ads with Acast. Visit go.acast.com advertise to get started.
- [53:49]
Unknown
Because of the connection between, like, clothing and criminality. So these zoot suits were sort of like, oh, a mobster in a pinstripe suit, you know what I mean? Or like a zoot suit and a gangsta. And the LA Times referred to the zoot suits as the uniform of delinquency. However, speaking of uniforms, there was a fuck ton of service members of the U.S. military in LA at any one time. Some would be on shore leave, others preparing to deploy, others were passing through, or they were training at the Naval Marine Corps Reserve center in Chavez Ravine, which was, lest we forget, any predominantly Mexican part of LA at the time. And so at weekends, the numbers of, like, the numbers of servicemen could swell to around 50,000 military personnel in the city. And a lot of these fellas, they saw zoot suiters as unpatriotic. Like, you know, because all that fabric meant you weren't getting it for the war effort. And also the wearing of the zoot suit became like a political act. And like, wearing a zoot suit could be seen as an act of rebellion. So this layered with the belief that these, you know, Mexican, Hispanic, Latino youths were draft orchards. And these fellas, they were personally offended by their very presence. Like the fact that they existed was annoying them. And because of this, skirmishes between Mexican civilian youth and service members was a common occurrence by late 1942. And it was like a tit for tat, right? So one fight would lead to the next one, and, like, I'd have to get back to this person. They would get back at you and yada, yada, yada. And it goes from like one fake per week recorded, right? And here's the thing. Anytime one thing is reported, you have to assume that if it happens once, right, it'll happen another time. And so this goes from like one a week to two to three fights per day. Which brings us to May 31, 1943. Eleven or so uniformed servicemen and a group of underage Mexican Americans clashed, resulting in one sailor having his jaw broken. And so the Anglo servicemen were not too happy with that. And in retaliation on 3 June, about 50ish sailors from the Naval Marine Corps Reserve center in Chaves Ravine, they marched through downtown L. A carrying clubs and a bunch of other makeshift weapons. Like, they MacGyvered some weapons and they were looking for a fight. And they attacked anyone wearing a zoot suit or anything deemed as, and I quote, racially identifiable clothing. The following day, a Friday, June 4, sailors hired cabs to take them to the barrios specifically. So these military personnel. Let's just get this right. Like, let's get this straight. These military personnel deliberately entered civilian neighborhoods seeking out minority youths to attack during an act of war. So there's a war going on and they're doing this. I just. Okay, they attacked anyone vaguely Hispanic. Five victims were hospitalized. And by the time the police and shore patrol arrived, most of the sailors had returned to base. So who did they arrest? That's right, victims. Victims of the crime. The next evening, on the 5th of June, it's the same, but bigger, and it spreads further into East Los Angeles. And mainly these attacks, they targeted men, especially pachucos or anyone they believed to be a pachuco. They even attacked a group of musicians like, as they were leaving Aztec Recording Company. Like they were leaving and they got attacked. By the 7th of June, there's this unsubstantiated rumour that zoot suiters were planning a coordinated attempt to attack the police. I'm going to be gentle when I say this. There is no evidence anywhere, in any way, in any consideration, any whisper of a possibility that the zoot suiting youth were going to coordinate an attack on police. That wasn't going to happen. That was not part of it. So the media, they are just, they are lapping this up and they're going hell for leather. Some fanned the flames, stating that zoot suits were attacking servicemen on sight. Others reported that a mob of military personnel were creating carnage in the streets, which is nice. It's nice that somebody was actually reporting the correct thing. And so because of this rumour, from the 7th of June, servicemen traveled to, to downtown LA, from all over, as far as far as San Diego, right? And some taxis ferried them in for free. And they weren't just attacking the barrios, which are mainly the Mexican American population, but also predominantly black neighborhoods. US servicemen attacked youths and zutzuds beat them, sometimes they strip them naked and then set fire to their suits in front of them. They destroyed their clothes, they cut their hair and, and like they're just, they're just causing chaos, right? They are. They even attacked a black defense worker. So someone who is military personnel, someone who was on their sight, part of their team, right? I know there's racial prejudice in the army, especially at this time, but this guy on their team and what do they do? They gouge out one of his eyes with a knife. Anglo sailors, right? Attack a brother in arms, a member of their same military force, they are pulling people out of movie theaters to attack them in the streets. Black people, Mexican, Filipino, like all, I'd say indiscriminately attacked, but this is very much discriminately attacked. And the police, what did they do? What did they do? Right? When it came to the servicemen, they were carted either back to base or dropped off a few blocks away. They didn't like suffer any consequences of this, right? And the youths like the puchacos or pucachos, like they were like begging police to arrest them as it was safer to be in jail than on the streets. And then otherwise, like the Mexican American youths that were being arrested generally were victims of this. And again, media was praising the servicemen while vilifying the victims. One such paper said or had the headline Zodsora's Learn Lesson from fight with servicemen. 8 June. The violence mainly stopped because the servicemen were barred from leaving base and downtown LA was a no go zone. All the while the Navy claimed that all the actions of the sailors was in self defence. No, no, that is just factually incorrect because, because you're starting a fight. Like if you craft a weapon, right? You craft a weapon, you then Travel to a location with the weapon, pull people out of like the cinema they're at, the pictures they're watching or something. You pull them out, you beat them, you strip them, you cut their hair. Like, how is that self defense? You can't claim self defense when you like attack a mass group of people first. You cannot claim self defense when you attack a mass group of people first. I feel like this, as a general rule is something we should be able to comprehend. If you invade somewhere else, you're not being defensive. That is attack, that is offense. Okay? These are basic, basic terms that we should understand. So by the 9th of June, the Los Angeles City Council banned the public wearing of zoot suits and the penalty was 50 days in jail. After this, two committees were formed to investigate the cause of the riots. An anti American activities investigation presided over by State Senator Jack B. Tenney, the purpose of which was to search for evidence of fascist or Nazi instigators. They found no evidence of fascist or Nazi instigators. Not a drop, not a whisper, not a drip. The other committee was a citizens committee ordered by California Governor Errol Warren, which the long and short of it said that racism was the cause of the outbreaks in violence. That's your Cliff Notes version. Too long. Didn't read, you know, so that's what they said. And the LA mayor, Fletcher Bourne, he was adamant that race was not a factor in the riots and the cause of the riots. The blame, he said, was solely on zoot suitors and juvenile delinquents. Here's the thing, though, here's the thing. This citizens committee report, it showed that juvenile delinquency had increased across the board in all ethnic groups, but less so in the Mexican American population. Right. It basically said that there are factors that lead to crime. So inadequate infrastructure, sanitation, substandard housing, lack of recreational facilities, places for young people to go and do things from like playgrounds to like swimming pools. Yeah. So like, when you don't have a lot of options or services for young people, they're just going to do whatever they can. Right. That's why so many Irish teenagers used to go ditch drinking. And it is exactly what it sounds. You'd go drink in a field, Right. You'd probably end up in a ditch. Right. What if you end up in a ditch? We did. Right. Because you have literally nothing else to do. Like there's, there was nothing. Right. You have fields, sometimes you'd go cow tapping. Right. Not a lot happening. Right. So yeah, they had ideas. The, the ideas to like Combat, like, all these issues, like better police training, especially those going into minority areas, increase in facilities, ending segregation and discrimination. They were like, if you want to reduce crime, you don't overfund the police. You invest in community infrastructure. I feel like that's something we can still learn from today, nearly a hundred years later. Like, we're getting close. We're like 80 years out. That's the thing. Like, you need infrastructure, you need services, you need third spaces, right? You need third spaces. People need to be able to go and do things right, and. And without them, like, you don't grow. If you want to combat crime, you have to prevent crime. In order to prevent crime, you have to invest in areas and you have to rebuild community. This committee, by the way, did not, for the record, investigate the actions of the military personnel who were involved in these riots. Like, maybe. Maybe investigate them. Maybe investigate the people who instigated the violence, perhaps? No. Okay, then. So the Sleepy Lagoon murder and the zoot suit riots, they were actually like a precursor to what's called the Chicano movement, which is a civil rights movement and has created solidarity amongst marginalized communities across the country and led to a broader and deeper discussion of race, racism. Like the Chicano as well. Like, it still exists. It's still a civil rights movement that exists today. And they still wear zoot suits. Like it's part of that political expression. I actually think we should bring back zoot suits in general. I love zoot suits, although with my body shape, I look a bit weird in a zoot suit now. I actually didn't mention the women who wear zoot suits because there were. There were. There were, you know, girls and women who wore zoot suits, and sometimes they would wear them with trousers. And so they were very, like, masculine and which, again, you know, the Anglos weren't happy with because they saw it as like, the opposite of, like, femininity. But then you would have, like, a zoot suit that had a skirt, and then it was seen as, like, whorish. Like, it was such. It was such, like, such a disdain for it. No matter what they did, it was such a thing. And I have one more not so fun fact for you. The Dodger Stadium is situated in the Chaves Ravine on an area that was supposed to be public housing project with the people evicted from the area, the Mexican American people, by the way, evicted from the area. They were supposed to have, like, first dibs of getting. Of getting a place there once it had been rebuilt. And the reason the project fell through was because The Elysian Parks heights project, with 2413 storey buildings, 162 story townhouses, a college, a school and a playground, was deemed too socialist because having a place where everyone can live and thrive is socialist, allegedly, because people were given the opportunity to live there instead of selling it to the highest bidder. Like, okay, what's interesting as well is that the Zoot Suit riots and the Sleepy Lagoon murder, which is what everything traces back to, like, that is the catalyst for this event, is that there isn't a lot out there on it. Like, typically, even when there's, you know, a miscarriage of justice or a big event happens, especially when the people that are involved in it, even regarding, like, ethnic minorities, it. It's usually more spoken about and discussed over time and even within, like, historical and true crime communities, it's not really, and it's interesting and not in a good way that that's the case. And that's why, like, one of the reasons why I definitely wanted to talk about it, because I wanted to, you know, discuss something that doesn't get discussed that often because it bothers me. But next week I do have An American Woman again going back to form because y' all are asking me to talk about more women. And I will do my best, but I thought this was just an important, important one, especially for right now in the land we live in and the world we live in specifically. But if you liked my telling of this story, feel free to rate and review five stars. If you don't want to see anything nice, you can just not see anything at all. But Apple Podcast, like, helps. You got the charts. If you're reviewing, like, it'd be great. It would just be good for me. It would be nice. I would enjoy it and I would enjoy the positivity, to be honest. And so with that, it is. Oh, yeah, follow me on the socials. But on top of that, it's recommendation time, I think, for recommendations for reading Ramping Up Rights by Rachel Charlton Daily. It is a book about disability rights by a disabled journalist and author. Rachel is amazing. Go get her book. Okay? Go buy her book. Buy it now for watching. Like, I feel like I should say Superman, because I've heard many, many things in that. It is not subtle. It's. I haven't seen it yet, so I feel like I shouldn't actually be recommending it to you. Let me see now. Okay, so I just googled, like, Hispanic movies or, like, Hispanic leads in movies also, like, basically, nah, just watch anything with Pedro Pascal. But also I was like, oh, they remade Father of the Bride. And I didn't know, like, Andy Garcia is in Father of the Braid. Like, I. I haven't seen. How did I miss this came out. It came out in 2022. I'm gonna watch this. I have to see this. Now. I love Father of the Bride because I love the originals movies, which is probably. I don't know if they've aged well, but I'm gonna find out. And I'm also gonna watch this. So that's something we can do as a team. Okay. That and for listening. Actually, let me see now. For listening. Listening. Oh, my goodness. This is not a recommendation. This is actually an anti recommendation. So I was, I was having a little nose here. You know, even the royals, because sometimes, you know, there'll be something that I'll want to hear about or someone. And as I was scrolling, because I haven't listened to them in like for Yonks, and they had a two part on Grace o', Malley, not Gronjo o', Malley, the Irish pirate Queen. Apparently, apparently they couldn't get her name right. Apparently they can give everybody else the right name, but they can't give it to Grogna for some reason. And I've done ads for them before. Like, I've had a host red ad on this, like, for even the Royals, and now that's not happening again. So if, if you ever hear my voice talking about even the Royals, please know that that's old and not new because I will not be involved in that. Like, I. I mean, I simply cannot, to be honest. Like, I can't. I just can't be in it because I. I know it's such a weird line in the sand for some people, but it's her fcking name. Like, call her by her name. It's not that hard. It's not hard, right? If someone, again, like earlier on was struggling to pronounce things, you give it a go, right? If you still bugger it up in the end, you did your best. Which I think is kind of like the important part. Like, if you can say yawn, you can say gron. Like, it's not. It's not. God damn it. So let me, Let me give you someone who does know what she's doing. You're going to listen to the lovely, amazing, fabulous TK from for the Love of History podcast. Because she pronounces names correctly or she gives it a good college try. Okay? She does her best. You know what? So that's, that's my recommendations. And with that, I better go before I get too stressed. So with that, I shall bid you good day. Adios. Au revoir. Au vui deser, my friends. Bye. Bye.
- [76:47]
Katie Charlwood
Beth, you're in charge of ordering the tacos for the meeting today.
- [76:50]
Unknown
Yeah, I'm not going to order the tacos. Uh, what? I'm going to easy cater the tacos with Easycater. You can order from a huge variety of restaurants, track expenses and save time.
- [77:01]
Katie Charlwood
Nice.
- [77:02]
Unknown
Oh, by the way, you're emailing the meeting notes, right?
- [77:05]
Katie Charlwood
No, I'm going to easy mail them. Where's my music?
- [77:09]
Unknown
Sorry, Ben, there's no Easycater for that.
- [77:12]
Katie Charlwood
Ezcator the easy way to order Food for work. Order now@easycator.com Acast helps creators launch, grow.
- [77:21]
Unknown
And monetize their podcasts everywhere acast.com hey.
- [77:28]
Do you want to hear the next big new tech podcast hit before anyone else? Check out the daily tech news show Experiment Week. We're swapping out our normal shows to try out some new ideas. We've done this before and launched big hits like behind the Data, the Tech John and more. This year we have exclusive Android faithful reactions to the Pixel 9 event. It's all on the DTNS feed starting August 11th. Don't miss it.
- [77:59]
Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize.
- [78:03]
Katie Charlwood
Their podcasts everywhere acest.
- [78:05]
Unknown
Com.