Who Did What Now with Katie Charlwood

Episode 157: The Battle of Castle Itter
Release Date: August 25, 2025
Host: Katie Charlwood

Episode Overview

In this episode, Katie Charlwood dives into the extraordinary and little-known story of the Battle of Castle Itter, a bizarre World War II event where American and German soldiers fought together against the SS to save high-profile French prisoners. Billed as perhaps "the most positive concentration camp story in the entire Holocaust" ([13:30]), Katie breathes life into this historical incident, sharing context, key figures, and quirky moments with her signature irreverence and enthusiasm.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Setting and Context (10:47–22:00)

• Austria During WWII: Katie outlines the annexation of Austria (Anschluss, 1938) and paints a picture of the tension in the region: "Not everybody is cool with that. Some people didn't agree that joining Germany was a great idea..." ([13:36]).
• The Austrian Resistance: Often overlooked in mainstream history, the Austrian resistance included armed sabotage groups, double/triple agents, and even resistance within the Wehrmacht.
• Castle Itter’s Role: Situated in North Tyrol, Castle Itter (Schloss Itter) was leased by the Nazis in 1940, then seized and turned into a subcamp of Dachau in 1943 to house prominent French prisoners and other individuals valuable to the Reich.

The Prisoners of Castle Itter (22:30–26:00)

• A Motley Crew: Key prisoners included politicians (Édouard Daladier, Paul Reynaud), generals (Maxime Weygand, Maurice Gamelin), resistance members (Marie-Agnès de Gaulle), unionists, diplomats, and even a star tennis player (Jean Borotra).
• Cultural Oddities: Katie remarks on the surreal situation: "You've got a motley crew in there—like you have the right wing leader and closet French resistance fighter François de la Rocque, trade union leader Léon Jouhaux, tennis player Jean Borotra..." ([22:03]).
• VIP Privileges: Unlike standard concentration camp inmates, these prisoners received better treatment: "These VIPs, they got meals, they got to stretch their legs and talk to the guards..." ([25:16]), highlighting both hierarchy and the peculiar day-to-day of the camp.

Shifting Fortunes & The Collapse of the Reich (23:00–29:00)

• Increasing Chaos: As the Allies close in and the SS grows desperate, chaos escalates outside the castle, while inside, prisoners and staff sense impending change.
• Edward Weiter’s Mysterious Death: The commandant of Dachau dies under suspicious circumstances while seeking refuge at Itter: "He ends up staying much longer than he expected because he ends up dying—mysteriously—as he fell onto a bullet..." ([29:01]). Katie's tone here is especially sardonic regarding Nazi euphemisms for suicide and accountability.

The Unlikely Alliance Forms (29:01–39:00)

• Prisoner Ingenuity: Learning the Allies are approaching (thanks to a smuggled radio), the inmates send resistance member Zvonimir Cuckovic on his bike to seek help—opting for a 40-mile trek to American-occupied Innsbruck to avoid the German-occupied nearer town.
• SS Escape: The local SS commandant, Sebastian Wiemer, panics and flees, leaving prisoners to improvise: "He says, fuck this for gamer soldiers, and just runs off, followed by the remaining SS guards..." ([31:25]).
• Raising the Flag: The prisoners create a makeshift French flag to stake their claim and arm themselves with leftover weapons.

The Battle (37:00–51:00)

• Rescue Efforts Converge: The Austrian resistance, led by Major Josef Gangl, teams up with Lieutenant Jack Lee and his exhausted 14-man American contingent after a tense meeting, overcoming obstacles like bridges wired for explosives.

• Bizarre Combatants: Katie marvels at the mix: "Americans working with ex-Nazis from Austria with the Austrian resistance to lead Germans and Americans through the Alps to rescue a host of French prisoners, like, from the SS. That's insane." ([50:50]).

• Defenses and Siege: Only one tank ("Besotten Jenny") is left by the castle gate; American soldiers, Wehrmacht defectors, ex-labour camp inmates, and even SS officer Kurt Siegfried Schrader (nursed by prisoners) defend against 150–200 furious SS troops.

  • Katie’s comic reenactment:
    "Is that… is that an American tank? Is it an SS Sojai? That is his uniform. What is he doing? Oh, he's shooting at us. He's meant to be one of us. What is this?" ([50:12])

• Heroic Escape: Jean Borotra, the famed tennis player, vaults the castle wall, dodges fire to deliver critical info to approaching American reinforcements, then returns to fight:

  • "He vaults over the castle wall, runs the gauntlet of SS strong points and ambushes past SS officers with machine guns... 'Give me a gun and a uniform,' and then he heads back to the castle with them." ([48:45])

• Aftermath: The battle ends after only one Allied defender dies (Major Gangl, shot while saving Paul Reynaud), and 100 SS are captured—days after Hitler’s suicide and just before Germany’s surrender.

Reflections and Tone

• Black Comedy: Throughout, Katie’s tone is irreverent and darkly humorous:

  • "I love how ridiculous it is... the SS showing up and just being like, are they ours, mein Commander? Are those our men? They're not our men. They are. Whose tank is that? Is that it's not our tank?" ([51:03])
  • "That is the story of the Battle of Castle Itter. Still one of the silliest and fun, like, as it could be. It's the tennis player vaulting over the wall of a castle and. And just bolting it." ([52:05])

• A Rare Bit of Good News:

  • "Apart from that one death, it had a positive outcome, you know, and you don't get that in a lot of these stories..." ([52:47])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On historical enthusiasm:
  "If you have enthusiasm and knowledge, people are gonna engage, there's gonna be better interaction with that and people are gonna learn better." ([02:00])

• On chattel slavery deniers:
  "Somebody says, slavery wasn’t that bad. What? ...Chattel slavery, in which not only you were enslaved but the generations after you would be enslaved, where you had less rights than animals. Are you serious?" ([10:40])

• On prisoners raising the French flag:
  "Like any decent contestant on Project Runway, they managed to fashion together a few items. And they make a French flag." ([31:45])

• Summing up the oddity:
  "On paper, it's wild. Americans working with ex Nazis from Austria with the Austrian resistance to lead Germans and Americans through the Alps to rescue a host of French prisoners, like, from the SS. That's—that's insane." ([50:50])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Main topic begins / Introduction to Castle Itter: 10:40–13:20
• Historical context: Austria & the Resistance: 13:20–20:00
• The prisoners and castle background: 22:00–26:00
• Rising chaos & collapse of Nazi administration: 27:00–31:00
• Escape attempts & seeking Allied help: 31:00–34:45
• First rescue efforts / Meeting of the Alliance: 37:00–41:00
• The battle unfolds—borrowing a tank, Borotra’s daring run: 45:00–50:00
• Climax and conclusion of battle: 50:00–53:00
• Host reflections and wrap-up: 52:00–54:00

Summary Table: Who Was Involved?

| Group | Role/Action | Notable Members | |---------------------|-------------------------------------|---------------------------------------------| | French Prisoners | Defended castle, sought rescue | Daladier, Reynaud, Borotra, de Gaulle's sis | | American Soldiers | Main fighting force, led rescue | Lt. Jack Lee | | Wehrmacht Defectors | Fought alongside Allies | Major Josef Gangl | | Austrian resistance | Facilitated rescue, local support | Alois Mayr, Hans Walz (teenager) | | Ex-labour inmates | Maintained castle, helped prisoners | Zvonimir Cuckovic, Andreas Krobot | | SS Troops | Besieged the castle | Led by 17th SS Panzergrenadier Division | | SS Officer (converted) | Defended prisoners | Kurt Siegfried Schrader |

Final Thoughts & Recommendations

• Katie Reflects on the Episode:
  "That is the final Concentration Camp series episode we're gonna have for a while... I'm done." ([53:00])

• Recommendations (Entertainment & Reading):

  • Watching: Hunters – "Because everyone hates Nazis."
  • Listening: Threesus podcast – "It's just a fun time with some nerds."
  • Reading: Penguin ‘red and white’ classics, specifically Hell by Dante.

Closing

Katie's engaging, often irreverent, approach brings a wild, complex episode of WWII to life. The Battle of Castle Itter is a story of improbable alliances, heroism, absurdity, and a rare glimmer of humanity in a bleak period.

“It's the tennis player vaulting over the wall of a castle and… just bolting it… I just love the idea of just that Million Dollar Man jumping over the wall and then just zigzagging through the damn forest…” ([52:08])

Useful for listeners seeking a concise but vivid retelling of one of WWII's strangest encounters—with just enough wit, context, and human detail to stick in the mind.