← Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood
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- [00:10]
Katy Charlewood
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- [00:40]
Howie Mandel
There's the part of me that everyone sees. I'm Howie Mandel, the comedian. Apparently I know what funny is. Funny bought me a house. But I also know what isn't funny. Ocd. I've lived with OCD my entire life and people throw the term around like it's no big deal. But OCD is severe, often debilitating. It's a mental, mental health condition that involves unrelented unwanted thoughts that can make you question your character, your beliefs, even your safety. General therapy can help with some things, but for ocd, it can actually make things worse. That's why I want to tell you about NOCD. NOCD is the world's largest treatment provider for OCD and is covered by insurance for over 155 million Americans. Their licensed therapists specialize in ERP, the most effective treatment for OCD. If you think you might be struggling with OCD, go to nocd.com to book a free 15 minute call. They are here to help only.
- [01:39]
Katy Charlewood
Boost Mobile.
- [01:39]
Boost Mobile Hype Man
Boost Mobile.
- [01:40]
Katy Charlewood
We'll give you a free year of service. Free year when you buy a new 5G phone.
- [01:44]
Boost Mobile Hype Man
New 5G phone.
- [01:45]
Katy Charlewood
Enough.
- [01:45]
Boost Mobile Hype Man
But I'm your hype man. When you purchase an eligible device, you get $25 off every month for 12 months with credits totaling one year of free service. Taxes extra for the device and service plan. Online only.
- [01:56]
Katy Charlewood
Hello delicious friends, and welcome to who did what Now? The history podcast. That's not your history class with me, your host, Katy Charlewood, history harlot and reader of books. As a history harlot, A harlot of history. A harlot for history. A harlot on behalf of history. These are questions, these are queries. Which one is it? Is it all? Is it none? It's at least one of them, if not all three. But as the history harlot and reader of books. I love museums like I love. I love a regional museum because that's where the fun stuff is. That's where the interesting thing is. Give me your weird you're wacky, you're silly, you're specific, you're intense, you're folklore based. You're. Oh, God. There's so many parts of, like, human history and society that ends up in museums, and I want to go visit them. Like, I have this joke, which isn't really a joke because I 100% want to do it and that I want to have my own TV show where I go visit museums. And I am very honest and funny about them because, like, obviously everything in the British Museum is basically stolen. Like, anyway. And it's just me being like, yep, they nicked this. They stole this too. Anyway, so on and so forth and. And I want to go, like, visit all these regional museums. Like, take me to your regional museum. Take me on your walking tours. Talk nerdy to me. I fucking love it. Right? So in order for me to visit museums, though, they have to exist. Which brings me to my next point. And you're thinking, jeez, you've taken this long to get to this one and. Yes, I have. It's my podcast. I'll do what I want to. If you do not like the jibber jabber, you can leave. Anyway, so I'm putting a link down below in the podcast notes section for donations for the Burlesque hall of Fame. So it's basically a museum to the burlesque stars of old, effectively, and the history of burlesque. And the items and artifacts that are there need to be put into storage until they can find a new premises. Because it is a registered charity, it is a museum. And between funding cuts from the husk of a man in charge and the lack of tourism due to the husk of a man in charge, they are just down. They are losing money and they cannot afford the running cost. So I am here begging everyone, like, a dollar, $2, $20, $50, 7. Like 3 pounds, 50. Whatever you have, like, whatever you have to spare that you can feasibly spare. Like, I just think that, you know, it's so easy for certain aspects of history to be dismissed and ignored, and especially when it centers around women, POC and lgbtq. And as such, I think it is our duty to try and protect this. And so I'm donating what I can, so I'll be seeing what is available this month. I've. I've been sponsoring, like, girls sports teams over here because I'm just like, no more girls in sports. Let's do it. I've been trying to help things locally here as well. Some Palestine donations have been going out and now, now I have sort of. This is now my goal for. For a little while because I. I just think it's important. And I would really appreciate if any of you could, you know, give what you can. And if you've been listening to, like, this whole series and you've seen me, you know, yap online, that you'll know that this is actually one of the reasons why I decided to actually go into the whole burlesque series. There's going to be, like, extra episodes coming out as well. There's going to be more on the Patreon because I was writing them this morning with the amount of books that are currently sitting on my kitchen table. Like, I've been wearing a back support every day because I cannot feasibly bend anymore because it's causing me too much pain. And. And I have a package. I have a pack that is sitting from the US Postal Services, and I am. I am excited to open it, but I'm not allowing myself to open it until I finish all of my recording today, because it is my treat. I don't know what it is, but it is a treat. And I'm so excited. I think there's a book in there. Okay. But I know what you're thinking. You're thinking, katie, quit your dibble dabber. In fact, me. In fact you. I will. But first we've got to get our source on. Our sources are the Lily St. Cyr papers from America History Museum. Burlesque Queen Lily St. Cyr by Larry Gallon. Who the hell is Lily St. Cyr? By Michael Adams. Goddess of Love Incarnate by Leslie Zemeckis, who I'm fairly certain her previous name is Goldwyn and she's married to Zemeckis. I think that's what's happened. Maybe. Behind the Barley Queue by Leslie Zemeckis. Ma Vie Destrep? Tejus by Lily Sincere. We also have her old friends biography.com and thesmithsonian.com. are you sitting comfortably? Good. Then let's begin. According to her birth certificate, Lily St. Cyr was born Marie Frances Clarkiste on the 3rd of June, 1917 in. In Minneapolis, Minnesota. Minnesota. I can't help myself. One day I will learn that accent. One day. So she's born to Ben Clarkeast, a carpenter, and Mariah Marie Curry Clarkeast, also known as Maud, who was a seamstress. Very solid 1900s professions. She was the youngest of three siblings. She had an older brother, William, and an older sister, Edela. And there's like quite a large age gap between her and the older two. And unfortunately, it's not a bountiful time in the Clarkeast household. As Ben, he gets injured on a work site, you know, because health and safety in the early 20th century, was it the most thorough or existent? So, yeah, this injury meant that his employment opportunities were limited. And little Marie, as she was then, grew up living hand to mouth. So they traveled around a lot searching for work, going from Minneapolis, Minnesota, to Webster, Wisconsin, to Seattle, Washington, before eventually settling down in pasadena, California, in 1930. She's, like, 13 at this point. She's been to 17 different schools over the course of her life, and she's finally, like, in a relatively settled location. And so why Pasadena, California? Well, I'm glad you asked, because I'll tell you, big sister Edela was living in Pasadena with her husband and their young children. And so the band are back together. Okay. The family are back together. You know, strength in numbers. They're there to help and support each other. And Lily, she's moved around most of her life. She's never really settling down. And now she has, like, her chance for something solid. She's, like, really excited to put down some roots and spend some, like, quality time with her sister and her little nieces. And so, yeah, she'd moved around a lot, but she still had, like, hobbies and interests. As if moving around wouldn't make you have hobbies and interests, you know, but she had, you know, a solid school life. She had interests. Well, she loved fashion, right? She adored, fashioned. And luckily for young Marie, her mother is a seamstress. And so she gets her to teach her how to sew. And so she starts making these fancy wee gunas for herself, and she's swanning about in beautiful dresses that she made. So here's a sidebar already, Katie. Yes, all clothes are handmade. I need everyone to understand this. All. All clothes, every garment you wear is handmade. It's not magically put together by a machine. It's not wished upon a star. No, a person sews that. Whether they use a machine, whether they hand stitch, it's irrelevant. It's still a person making that garment. Every item is handmade. So it's really weird to me when they're like, this shirt is handmade or all shirts are handmade, sir. All of them. There is a person working that it's not right. So next time you complain about the price of something, think about why your T shirt is costing three bucks. Like, if you're paying that amount for a T shirt like that's not even worth the fabric. Imagine what the person who's making that as earning. And that's just something that we need to consider in this very modern world. And I say that as someone who owns a lot of second hand clothing because yeah, learn. Learning to sew. Like I'd be a great 1950s housewife. I'd be perfect apart from the fact I yap too much. But they'd give me drugs to sort that out. So it's fine, but. Or a lobotomy. And so like I can sew, I can knit, I can weave, I can embroider, I can darn. And you're thinking, aren't sewing, darning and embroidering the same thing? No, I'm going to go with no. I'm going to go with no. I'm not great at machine sewing, but I, I can just about put a costume together. Not that I've done it in years, but I will have to do it this Halloween anyway. Every item of clothing you wear is made by a person. Okay, so back to Baby Marie. Baby Marie, Teenage Marie. So she's in beautiful dresses, she's into fashion, and she's finally, you know, feeling comfortable and secure. She's 14 years old and she is being swept off her feet by Jimmy Nicholls, a mechanical apprentice. And she adores being courted and romanced. Like, she's such a huge fan of like the motion pictures and of like the gossip magazines and their fashion and all that that like she feels like she's Greta Garbo and she's the big love interest on the silver screen. And she sees herself as the love interest because like she's 14, she has fantasies as a 14 year old girl. And she even uses Greta Garbo as her style inspro. Like she emulates her. She kind of looks like her and she tries to like emulate her looks and imitates her. Like me in my Keira Knightley phase. Listen, we all want to be the pirate king and pendant like Beck. I'm okay. Shut up. Okay. Keira Knightley could still get it though. Anyway, so she is living her best life. She's settled, she's with her family, she's got a boyfriend and she's feeling really, really good about her place in life. And then when things are just like coming up mel house, she gets the rug pulled out from under her feet. And it's, it's not, I mean, it's a turning point in her life because her mother and sister nudge, they sit her down and they completely Flip her world upside down. Because as it turns out, Maud isn't her biological mother, Etsy Della, the woman she thought was her sister. This makes Maud her grandmother. And her nieces, Rosemary and Edela, they are her half sisters or sisters. Right? I, I don't like the half thing. My kids have a big sister from a previous relationship with her from their dad, and she's their sister. I don't care. I don't, I don't care about your halves. I don't care about it. It means nothing to me, sister or not. Like if you have a sibling who has a different parent, you live your life, you make your own choices about that. But as far as I'm concerned, they're all siblings. And I don't like that half that's put in front because I feel like it's creates a, a barrier. Like it sort of makes an othering out of it. And I don't like that because like that girl, she's my family, right? I don't care. And I will fight for her. Like, she loves her little brother and sister. She's amazing and honestly somehow managed to be one of the most well adjusted teenagers I have ever met. And she's also really good at poo. Like she will beat your ass. But Anyway, love her 10 out of 10. So I don't, I don't like that half thing. But. So she's got two sisters, so Rosemary, she ends up becoming Dardy, she changes her name to Dardy. And Edela, Ruth, she changes her name to Barbara. And they go on to have sort of semi careers. I'm gonna say they go into burlesque and film and I'll probably chat about them more another day. But it's just interesting. They all kind of ended up there. So there are two stories about this, about her birth and the situation which ended her having a falsified birth certificate. So which one of these stories is true? I do not know. They have similar bones though. And these are that her biological father was a Dutchman from South Dakota. I'm sure that makes sense to somebody called Edvard Van Shack, a traveling salesman. None of, none of that is surprising to me. And the other part is that Maud claimed to have given birth to Marie. So the variations, either Edward Van Schaak and Idella were married and he skipped out after the birth, or they weren't married and he left as soon as it was clear that Idella was pregnant. Like he just got the heck out of Dodge. Either way, Maude wanting to protect her daughter's reputation, she ends up staging at least part of the pregnancy. You hide Zidella away and says, oh, look, I had a baby, because, yeah, her reputation would be ruined. Not the men's, though. That doesn't happen. Men are trash. Not all men. Some of my best friends are men. Okay, you know, we're good. So this wasn't really that uncommon to do at the time. Babies were born at home most of the time, not always in hospitals. And, yeah, like, it's fairly common practice that this would still be happening. And so it wasn't that hard to turn around and be like, oh, look, I've already had other children. Here is another one. And so it was pretty easy to cover up at the time. Plus, it was one of the few ways to safely protect a young woman's reputation, because otherwise a girl would be ruined, tarnished, sullied by having children out of wedlock. Because, of course, she created life all by herself. I mean, she did just date the fetus on her own, but still, this. I mean, all. All too uncommon. But, like, I mean, lucky it was this period because, like, in the States, because if this had happened in Ireland in this period, chances are she would have been shucked off to a mother and baby home and then in the laundries. So if you haven't listened to the Magdalen Laundry episode, I'm gonna suggest you do that, because that's harrowing, but it's a good one. So by the time that Marie finds out, like, finds all this out when she sat down and told Idella had actually remarried for maybe the second time. So Marie, she's born in 1917. Edela married Louis Sherman Cornet in 1919. They moved to Texas and had two children, Betty Lee and Lewis, who everyone called Jack for some reason. Now, Betty Lee ends up in a car accident, which permanently scars her face, and so ends up being, like, hidden away. Lewis, Jack, I don't know about him. Anyway, so this marriage with Lewis Sherman Cornett doesn't really pan out, and they divorce in 1922. Then on May 5, 1923, which is like, less than a year later, Adella marries John Alfred Blackadder. Yes, Blackadder. And they have two daughters, Idella, Ruth and Rosemary, who would go on to, you know, semi fame. After this shock to her system, Marie changed her name to Marie Van Shack. And it's like, was she embracing her lineage? Was it an act of rebellion? Or was this her trying to find a sense of self? Because everything she knew about her life was wrong? So was it sort of Embracing. Was it rebellion? Whoms to say? But as she gets older, she gets more secretive about her past. In fact, her future husbands, all six of them, I believe they would be told that her family abandoned her or that they were all dead. Even though like her sisters are out there performing and like marrying off like toy manufacturers and stuff. Right. So her teens, they're still full of dreams and garble. She was not the only starlet she idolized. So like in her autobiography she says that she had the desire to be on the best dress list or this is my favourite part, being a gold digger like Jean Harlow and dinner at 8. That's a film that is one of those moving pictures, by the way, Gene Harlow. There are so many blonde bombshells that are out there and throughout history, throughout movies, and they are everywhere. But people tend to focus on like Marla Monroe quite a lot. And I love Marla Monroe and she will be a topic of conversation at some point, but not just now. So. Oh, she just, she just loves this whole vibe. And also good for her. Right, right. Life. Women in the 30s, I feel like we can give them a break, right? Considering the world was not built for them. They are just trying to survive within it. And oh, I just, I love these films. So my favorite actually, no sidebar. My favorite ever thing about Jean Harlow is like, she's at dinner with Margot Asquith. Now, Margot is spelled M A R G O T, right? And so they're at dinner and she goes, hey, are you the Margaret Asquith? Margaret. She calls her Margaret, right? And. And so Margot responds, no, the tea is silent like the one in Harlow. Basically she was calling her a harlot. And that to me is funny. I was like, oh, Margot, you saucy minx. In fairness, Margo Answorth was a bit of a dick. And again, we will talk about her someday. So Marie super into her magazines, she's into fashion, and she loves going to the motion pictures. And inspired by Jean Harlow, she does a home bleach job by mixing luxe soap flakes with peroxide, ammonia and Clorox. If you have access to all of these items at home, please don't do this. Don't do this to yourself. I would like for you to keep your scalps. So this is what gives her this iconic white blonde look. And when she's 17, Marie Van Schaack. Ta da. You're gonna be shocked at this. She's pregnant. She and Jimmy the mechanic had been making whoopee, knocking boots, doing the horizontal tango or The Lindy Hop. I don't know, I was trying to make it more American. So this teenage girl decides to make the right choice for her, which is to have an abortion. And this is a period of time where abortion is illegal, meaning that this was an off the books procedure. And here's the thing. You cannot ban abortion. You can only ban safe abortions. This means no regulation. This means no safety measures. Abortion is health care. If you don't believe that, you can fuck off. Unsurprisingly, after this unregulated and dangerous procedure, she develops an infection which risked her life because there were no legal means in order for her to get the procedure that she needed. So she is in so much pain. Like, it gets to the point where it's excruciating. And so she ends up telling Maud Nadella that she terminated her pregnancy because she needs help. And so she goes to the women in her life, her mother and her grandmother, for help and guidance and hopefully some pain relief. Did they console her? Did they hell? Instead they insulted her, degraded her, and told her that she was spoiled merchandise and that finding a husband would be nigh impossible. Now, first of all, what in the Slut shaming? Secondly, Edela, glass houses. And thirdly, it's fucking barbaric to accuse a woman or girl of sullying her reputation because she's no longer a virgin because virginity is a social construct. Otherwise we would have a socially accepted, typically universally agreed test for proving male virginity. And while we're on the subject. And while we're on the subject, isn't it funny that within a patriarchal, misogynistic system, the very thing that devalues women is a man? Just saying. So this whole experience leads Marie to say, fuck this, we're a game of soldiers. And she breaks things off with Jimmy, she quits school, and she decides to live her life her way. Only Boost Mobile. Boost Mobile will give you a free year of service. Free year when you buy a new 5G phone.
- [26:55]
Boost Mobile Hype Man
New 5G phone.
- [26:56]
Katy Charlewood
Enough.
- [26:57]
Boost Mobile Hype Man
But I'm your hype man. When you purchase an eligible device, you get $25 off every month for 12 months with credits totaling one year of free service, taxes extra for the device and service plan. Online only.
- [27:05]
Howie Mandel
There's the part of me that everyone sees. I'm Howie Mandel, the comedian. Apparently, I know what funny is. Funny. He bought me a house. But I also know what isn't funny. Ocd. I've lived with OCD my entire life, and people throw the term around like it's no Big deal. But OCD is severe, often debilitating. It's a mental health condition that involves unrelented unwanted thoughts that can make you question your character, your beliefs, even your safety. General therapy can help with some things, but for ocd, it can actually make things worse. That's why I want to tell you about no CD. No CD is, is the world's largest treatment provider for OCD and is covered by insurance for over 155 million Americans. Their licensed therapists specialize in ERP, the most effective treatment for OCD. If you think you might be struggling with OCD, go to nocd.com to book a free 15 minute call. They are here to help.
- [28:07]
Katy Charlewood
As Marie Van Schaack, she heads to Hollywood to work as a chorus girl. Like, she had ballet training when she was younger, so she had like a little bit of a dance background. So she moves to Hollywood where she meets and marries racer Cordy Milne in 1937. He's like a bike racer who was from Pasadena, right? So, yeah, he, he was like a messenger, like a bike messenger. And then he souped up his bike so he could race it like a vroom vroom bike, not like a cycling bike. And so he does this and he gets like some notoriety and they get married. Now they, they do divorce. Like, I'm gonna warn you now, every single one of her marriages ends in divorce. So anyway, Lily Sincere, she's a chorus girl, like, just loving her life performing. And when she's 23, her younger sisters, Rosemary and Adela Ruth, they have an audition at the Florentine Gardens. And so she's to accompany them. So she brings them in. And for whatever reason, it's actually Marie who gets hired instead of the girls. When she's working at the Florentine Gardens, she meets husband number two, Richard Hubert, and they get married in 1941. And so she's at the Florentine Gardens for two years before moving to San Francisco, where she dances at the Music Box Theatre as a chorus girl for $27.50 a week. And in today's money, that is $604.34, because I looked it up. But she cottoned on fairly quickly that the featured dancers made the big bucks. And at the Music Box Theatre, they were earning up to $500 per week. That is $10,988.03 in today's money. Again, I looked it up. The only catch was that the featured dancers in burlesque theatres were required to perform topless or even nude. And she's like what? Show some nips for 10 grand a week, Huzzah and tally ho. Like, she had posed topless before. So, like, a few years earlier, like, she modeled for a friend and she was like, oh, yeah, boobs. I love boobs. Everybody loves boobs. And, like, this is round about the time she starts using the stage name Lele Saint Cyr. Now, I have heard three theories as to why she chose this name specifically. The first, which is my, like, least favourite, is that there was a patron, a man who was, like, adoring of her, and his surname was Saint Cyr. And she went, I like that I'm gonna use it. Which I'm like, okay, that's fine. The other number two is that it's like a play on words. Like, it's meant to sound, like, sincere. Like, I'm so sincere. And behind Mystery door number three, my. My favourite is that it's a shortened version of Saint Sirius, the child saint, who was martyred because there's a lot to unpack there. And it feels like this would be the kind of thing she would do because it. It's. It's that funny to me where she's like, well, you want to know where my name came from? Ha. You got this. Maybe she just thought it sounded cool. I don't know. So Lily, she begs for a solo performance at the Music Box. And the producer, Ivan Fanova, like, he is, like, he just thinks she's gorgeous and stunning, and he's just wowed by her, like, charm and beauty, and he decides to give her a go. Like, he's like, you're stunning. Absolutely. And Lily sincere. Right? She's. She is absolutely gorgeous. She's 5 foot 9. She's got legs for days. She's got white blonde hair, those fluttery bedroom eyes. And if you're thinking, you know, this sounds vaguely familiar, like, she has all the curves in all the right places. Right. As some might say. And here's the thing, the legend goes that Norma Jean based her Marlon Monroe look on her. Like, she even had that sort of breathy voice. Happy birthday to you. So, like, it's supposed to be, like, emulating Lily Sincere. That is the legend. So anyway, like, the first time you do anything, it wasn't great. Her first performance was, I believe the term is unmitigated disaster. Like, the audience was unimpressed would be a gentle way to put it. They hated it. It did not go well. It was just like, sure, I can get naked on stage. Yeah, you got to do it with some panache. You've got to have like a thing, you know, it's not just. This is where I think is really interesting, where people don't understand that stripping, like, even if you take out the burlesque aspect, the art of taking off your clothes and not looking like an idiot doing it is an actual skill. Also, pole dancers, I do not have that level of core muscle in my body. I think one time I was able to flip myself upside down on a pole. Other than that, I. I don't have that level of strength in me. I wish I did. But I also have no rhythm. So if I was doing burlesque, I would be focusing on the comedy side of it while also hilariously getting into my birthday zone. Anyway, could you imagine? Could you imagine? Could you imagine if I did? Could you? Could I? Could I? Anyway, so the audience just. It was bad. It was a bad show. It was a bad, terrible thing. And so for Nova, he's like, I gotta give you a second chance, you know, which is wild because they don't do that. But he's like so besotted with her and he just sees something there. And so he helps her like create an act. She starts off with this biblical number because of course it is. It's always a biblical number. And she's got two other dancers because safety in numbers because you know, one of them buggers up, there's always another one there to help. So she's there. It's like Adam, Eve and the serpent. She's Eve in this scenario. So she's wearing this knee length white blonde wig and a G string. Because she has to have something, you know, and at the end of the act, right, so the, the G string she's wearing again, she's wearing this knee length wig. So it's covering her boobs, it's covering all the bits. It's like, hehe, sneaky, sneaky. Because they had weird. I'm gonna go with public decency laws. So like you couldn't get like in the full nip at this point. Like it wasn't something you could technically do. And so, and so she's got the G string on and it is attached to a fishing line and like on a like fishing rod. And there's a stage hand at the side of the stage. So what would happen is as the lights would turn out right at the end of her act, the G string would fly off her body and into the balcony, like, and this would be just as the stage lights go down. So technically not showing anything. But people want to see It. And so it's tantalizing and teasing and it's just a very, very smart move altogether. And so this, like, becomes her signature. It's like a gimmick. And like, today, today, this is still used because it's like a world famous striptease gimmick. It's called the Flying G. And, yeah, people still do it today, which is. I love that. I love that. Like, I saw. I saw an amazing. This is gonna sound so pretentious. I saw an amazing burlesque performer when I was in Prague, and they were doing, like, a Josephine, Josephine Baker set. And I actually follow her on Instagram because I thought she was so amazing. And she has that same, like, joy and, like, just comedy and the whole routine. And I. I love her so much. Anyway, so. Yes. Where was I now? My mum bought me tickets. Actually, I want to say my mum took me to a burlesque show in Prague because we were over there to celebrate my birthday. So anyway. Oh, and that's like 10 years ago, I think. Oh, my goodness. About no less. Eight. Eight years ago, because my daughter's nine. That's how I know. I. I count time now in the last, like, decade. I'm like, how old is. Was my child when the thing happened? And then I work backwards from there. I completely missed my point. My point was that classic routines are still being performed to this day. And I think it's wonderful that we still get to see art and performance and that it's not lost to the sands of time. You know, send me to museums. Sorry. To everyone listening on headphones. I did try and pull myself back so that you didn't get my little Miss Piggy, like, shriek there. I know, I know. I do have a fairly decent Miss Piggy impression. I think at this point, I just need my Kermit. Honestly, though, Kermit could still get it for a puppet me sideways. I gotta stop doing this. So Lily Sincere is a quick learner, and she becomes a sensation, a hit, a somewhat notorious celebrity touring all over America and the world. So shocker, she got married again, this time to actor, dancer, vaudeville performer Paul Valentin, also known as Van Valentoff. I don't know. There's so many names. So they were together from 1946 to 1949, and he had previously been in a relationship with Sally Rand, the fan dancer. Right. So occasionally he had actually performed with Lily on stage, like, opposite her, because, you know, he's a vaudeville man. And I'm going to take a moment to just remind everyone that Donald o' Connor is the reason I love comedians. It's why I'm attracted to comedians, God damn it. Funny men. I blame Donald o', Connor, but he could also bust a move, so love him anyway. Lily's career is booming. She has a seven year headlining gig at the Gaiety Theatre in Monterey hall and. And in the Sunset Strip in Vegas, like, which is like sterling its infancy. She has shows there and fun fact. Lily St. Cyr is often credited as being the person Persona who popularized striptease in Las Vegas. Now she's credited with it. Now as we go through this series, we will find out if that is the case. Sorry, I couldn't think of any other sound to make at that point. I feel like I've been more unhinged on this episode than I have been in a while. I'd like to apologize, but I don't want to. So, like, she's making bank back then. And unsurprisingly, men were clambering for her attention and they wanted to sit with her in between shows. And Hearst's assistant told them that if they wanted to do so, that Ms. St. Clair was only available if champagne was purchased. So like in these clubs, in these, like when they're little tables, man after man would have a bottle of champagne at their table. And so Lily would saunter through the audience and sometimes, whoops, knock over a champagne bottle, after which each gushing fellow would be more than happy to replace, because if there was no champagne, Lily Sincere would not be sitting with you. And so this is where Ms. Sincere would earn an extra buck or two because she would split the profits with the venue, you know, over like the champagne that was sold. So she would get a cut of that. So every time she knocked a bottle, the bottle would have to be replaced. So that's still more money going to the bar. Right? And I just love that she's like, champagne profits. I love it. It's just like girl has her champagne profits and I love that for her. And like, my favourite thing is that she charged men for dates, which honestly, go, Lily, make it worth your time. So like she would charge for like dates, for like lunchtime dates, dinner dates and even breakfast dates. But a breakfast date was the most expensive because Lily was not a fan of mornings. Like not super into them at all. Like, yeah, she was not. She was not an early riser by choice. So she does end up marrying again, this time to restaurateur armando orsini in 1950. But it didn't last because she Was too self sufficient. And this is like such a little irony is like she always dreamed of being a gold digger like Jean Harlow in dinner at 8, but in reality she was the breadwinner and she financially supported her spouses most of the time. Like, I mean, granted, she did have a whole host of affairs. Like was it like, was it Jimmy? Jimmy Orlando, like in Montreal was like one of her like big lovers. There was a rumor that she even shagged Ronald Reagan. When, which before he was president, obviously, but he was still, you know, Ronald Reagan and therefore a bit of a dick. But again, women in the past doing what they can. So she like lived her life as she pleased. She enjoyed performing, she enjoyed the attention and the adoration and the money because good for her. And over the years she created acts like the ballet dancer, the wolf woman, jungle goddess, which involved simulated sex scene with the parrot, so I'm told. So she had like an array of props, elaborate set pieces and costumes. Now I would be doing a disservice if I didn't mention that many of her acts they had imperialist, colonialist themes. So she had like a Cleopatra act. She had other arcs. I can't even remember them all now. Okay, I have it. I have it written down here. I knew I had a list. I've got in a Persian harem, I've got the Chinese virgin, okay? And I've got Cleopatra. Now Cleopatra is the only one where I think you kind of have a little bit of leeway with there because she's Greek, you know, which is spicy white, I guess, like, you know, white with olive oil maybe and herbs. Cleopatra is like Macedonian Greek. So that's sort of on the whiteness scale, which makes her like the only option where you can kind of go maybe, maybe. I say with great terror gripping my white heart. Right? So here's the thing, like appropriation comes from. It just stems from colonialism and imperialism because there's this belief that you should have open access to other people's cultures and you have the right to take it when we fcking don't. And I say that as somebody who is the human equivalent of a mayonnaise sandwich. I'm so white. I mean, there's some other ingredients in the recipe there, but we don't get to do that. We've stolen enough of their sht. Like empires have destroyed countries, nations, like societies, and we took the pretty things that we liked and then we claimed them as our own and then acted like we were, you know, celebrating it when like you nicked it. And now you're wearing it like, no, told you that. But I am going off on a rant. But, like, here's the thing. We need to understand and accept that the past is going to have some dark parts in it, even in the people that we admire and respect. And again, just because you're critiquing something doesn't mean you don't love it. And you can appreciate the beauty and the art, but you have to see the full picture and not just the part that you want to see. You know, like, I never want to see a white person doing Josephine Baker's Sauvage dance. Like, no, I will find rotten fruit to pelt at you. I will find you and I will hunt you down. Because you know better. At this point, that's not for you only. Boost Mobile.
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Howie Mandel
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- [48:28]
Katy Charlewood
Lily St. Cyr becomes known as Montreal's femme fatale. And her act had Quebec's clergy foaming at the mouth. They condemned her performance, stating that whenever she danced, the Tir Da is made to stink with the foul odor of sexual frenzy. This sentiment was echoed by the Public Morality Committee. Public Morality Committee says no. That's how you know it's good. She gets arrested and charged with behaviour that was immoral, obscure, and indecent. Now, she was acquitted because they didn't actually have that much evidence on her. However, the authorities did eventually close down the Gaiety Theatre. So this wasn't her only time, like being arrested or having a run in or having to go to court, because in 1947, Lily Sincere was performing her bathtub routine at Ciro's Cheeros Kiros. I don't know. I'm gonna go with Ciro's nightclub in Hollywood. And she was belled as the anatomic bomb. And of course, because. Mwah. Like, we love a pun here. And she gets arrested because a customer thought her act was lud. A lewd act. So when she goes to court with one of her husbands by her side, I am one of them, you know. She insists that her act is elegant and refined and not lewd or egregious. She explains the act, and then she performs it for the jury, like, fully dressed, of course, for the sake of decency, after all. So the act goes like this. She's on stage, and she has a maid. She slips off her dress and she has undergarments on. She tries on a hat, and she removes the hat. She removes one of her brassieres because she's wearing two. She has a sort of pink mesh one on underneath. And so she removes one brassiere and slips into a black negligee. She then moves behind her maid, sort of hiding behind her, and discreetly gets undressed. And then she steps into a bubble bath. And so she's sort of playing around in bubbles and splashing about, and then emerges from the tub basically fully dressed for a night on the town. And, like, that's the act. So she kind of goes from being dressed to undressed to being dressed again. And so after a mere 80 minutes of deliberation, the jury acquits. Lily St. Cyr. Skip Forward now to 1955, and Lily marries actor Ted Jordan. This marriage lasts, like, four years before they called it quits. And the year they divorced is also the same year that she marries special effects man Joseph Albert Zumar. And this marriage ends in 1964. So, like, each of her marriages, they sort of last, like, a little bit longer each time. But, yeah. So let's talk about her filmography for a wee second. So she ends up being in those motion pictures. So she's in Striporama Varieties and Tease O Rama, all made by Irving Claw in the early 50s. But like her first appearance in a feature film which was officially condemned by the Catholic Legion, of decency. Right. Her first appearance, her acting debut, is in Son of Sinbad in 1953. And this was thanks to entrepreneur, tycoon and weirdo Howard Hughes. Listen, if you keep jars of pee under your bed, I'm allowed to call you a weirdo. That's just how it is. So anyway, Hollywood was not a calling for Lily Sincere. And, like, even the funny thing about her being in this, because of Howard Hughes, like, she didn't actually meet him. Like, there is no record of them ever meeting, but she met with a man on his behalf, and his name was, like, Howard Kane. And so everything was done through them, and they sort of kind of started having a relationship, and then he left her, or he just kind of disappeared one day more than anything else. And, yeah, this left her fairly distraught. So I'm gonna get you to, like. Okay, trigger warning, content warning. I'm gonna suggest you Skip forward about 15 seconds if you have any issues regarding ending of life and suicide attempts. Okay. So Lily Sincere was a big taker of sleeping pills. Like, everybody in Hollywood, I'm fairly certain, was on sleeping pills at that point because they're just prescribed, like, jib jibs, you know? And so she was on them. And after Cain disappears, she ends up swallowing a bunch and tries to end her own life. And she woke up, like, a couple days later. She was just out for several days, but she did manage to survive. But this would happen a few times throughout her life where when someone would leave her or relationship would end or things just felt hard, she would have attempts, but she didn't succeed in any of them. So Hollywood wasn't really calling for Lily Sincere. Like, she preferred having control over her acts herself and in nightclubs, in theaters, like, she was the boss. She could choose, you know, what costumes to wear, what props to use, what music she was going to use in her act, how she was going to do it, what length it was going to be. Like, she had control and power over that. And she didn't have to answer to studio execs or even get up early in the morning because she fucking hated getting up early in the morning. Again, not a fan of a breakfast date. And she built this career on being beautiful and aloof. I mean, of course, she was more than that, because women are people, too. I don't know if you knew that, but that's a thing. But, yes, she built this, like, image of who she was. And she gave the tabloids a field day. Like, gossip columns were awash with rumors of love affairs with everyone. Again, Like Ronald Reagan, Mafia men, actors, actresses, and even Marilyn Monroe herself. Like, what I love, especially about Lily Sincere, is how open she was about not wanting children. Like, she often told the press that she had no desire to procreate. And, like, honestly, good for her, right? And, and here's the thing. After that back alley abortion anyway, there is no guarantee that she could, you know, get pregnant again. Like, there's no information regarding any more pregnancies in her life. So maybe. But either way, it was not something she wanted or desired. And, yeah, good for her. By the 1960s, burlesque is sort of petering away, and Lily is aging as we all do. Like, the only thing that stops the aging process is death. So good luck with that. Going old was difficult for her because she had constructed this image of herself, this stunning, untouchable sex symbol, and the world couldn't see that as beautiful at that time. The idea of beauty is so twisted. Like, I'm. I'm fucking sick of seeing all these women with the same face. Like, no, like, it's the wonderful thing about watching a movie from, I don't know, even the 90s or the mid-2000s. Like, that's not that long ago, but even that far where you can see people have different face shapes and different lips. And not Everybody has extra 500 eyelashes stuck on and the same eyebrows. And I just like, listen, if you want to look how you look like, I get Botox because my natural default state is frowning. But if you feel like you want to change something about yourself, I believe in you and have faith in you, but I think a lot of people are more stunning and gorgeous and beautiful than they think they are. And this goes for everybody. Men, women, non binary, gender fluid, gender non conformist. They them intersex. I almost forgot what intersex was there and almost said intermission. Oh, no. But yes, like, everyone, like, people don't see the beauty in themselves. And I think it's a shame. Like, I have friends who are all over the spectrums. And yeah, they're all hot. I'm sorry, all my friends are hot. That's just how it is. So the aging process was not kind to people in the past. And even now, we're sort of struggling to understand that beauty is. Isn't just like, frozen in time at 16 years old, because that's a child. But we grow, we evolve, and, you know, you're still hot. Do I need to point out Helen Merryn and for everyone to understand what I mean? Like, Helen Merrin is still smoking hot. I don't care what anybody says. Smoking hot. And if I may add, because I will always reference Murder She Wrote whenever I can in the pilot episode of Murder, she wrote, she is 59 years old. The character is 59 years old. And she has all of these men who are hot for her. Like, it's amazing throughout the first season how many men are just fucking head over heels for Jessica FLETCHER. And she's 59. And she looks 59, you know. And again, good for her. Back to Lily. In the mid-60s, she meets a man 17 years her junior who had served as a paratrooper near the end of the Korean War. Donald Andrew Markick. He wanted to be a magician, so Lily decides to help him. He changes his name to Lorenzo Holmes. Like, that is what's his name, the magical Lorenzo. And his family disown him and kick him out the house. And so he ends up moving in with Lily Sincere. And they never marry, but she would often introduce herself as Mrs. Holmes and they would be together for the final, like, 30 years of her life. At the age of 53, she retires from the stage and starts a new venture, a very successful venture, a lingerie store on Hollywood Boulevard called the Undie World of Lily Sincere. And so I have some fun facts about this because of course I do. If I have a fact about lingerie, you're all going to hear it. So the Rocky Horror Picture show, the whole, like, end sequence, the Don't Dream It, Don't Be It, Rose Tint, My World and Wild and Untamed thing, right? That whole sequence, they are all wearing garments from the underworld of Lily Sincere. And like, even the final line of the song goes like, Susan Sarandon is Janet Weisz. And she's like, God bless Lily St. Cyr. Like, and there's more. I have more. So this is 1975, so skip forward. Like, less than a decade later, 1981, Elvira, she gets her, like, look because she is wearing a Lily Sincere plunge bra. And that's where the big, like, push up boobs come from. And so, like, she has continued to influence, like, pop culture. Like, that's the like, Lily Sincere has managed to transcend into, like, modern movies and television with, like, her whole lingerie store. So it continues. And so, like, in her later years, she becomes a recluse. And, like, she's still with Lorenzo, who I think is going back to being called Donald at this point. And according to her sister, I think it's Barbara, Donald was a drug dealer. Like, literally, she's already on her sleeping pills, like, again, like half of Hollywood. And in the final 30 years of her life, like, she becomes a shut in. And like he's, he's got her hooked on heroin, allegedly. And so she's like, in this cramped, dingy apartment, she's hooked on heroin and she's got magazine papers taped to the windows to keep out the light. And up until the end, Lily St. Cyr was always proud of her life. She was never ashamed of her career. She was never ashamed of being a purveyor of pleasure. Like she was proud of burlesque, as she should be. And on the 29th of January, 1999, Lily St. Cyr passed away from heart failure at the age of 81. I like, she came from nothing and became a star. And she was her own woman and showed that burlesque is art and lily sincere, she was an icon. Like, at the end of the day, she was. And I think she deserves to be remembered. And so ends our story on the life of Lily St. Cyr. If you like this, my retelling of the story, including my rants, feel free to rate and review five stars. If you didn't like it, you don't have to do anything. Shut up. I am not interested in your criticism at this time. So that is that. Donate, if you can, to the Burlesque hall of Fame. I would greatly appreciate that you can find me on all of the socials. I am everywhere. Apparently most places. I am most places. Am I active in most places, maybe, but I'm there. So you can always, like, contact me through that if there's anything you want to tell me that's like bigger information. There is a contact form on my website and yeah, thank you so much. And I think it's time for recommendation. Recommendation time for. For listening, watching and reading. You know what I was watching? I've started watching. I watched the entirety of Wednesday. I watched it all. And I've decided that the second half of the second season was much better than the first half. But it still needed a lot of work, to be honest. So obviously that is not going to be my recommendation for watching. I think you should all watch the Rocky Horror Picture Show. I don't care if it's the original version. I don't care if you watch the slime tutorial on YouTube or the anniversary editions. It's amazing. Go watch it and feel free to sing along in the comfort of your own home. I can't stop you. Right? For reading, I'm gonna recommend Goddess of Love Incarnate. By Leslie Zemeckis. Like, read that book. It is an amazing book. And for lessening Sabrina Carpenter, just listen to Sabrina Carpenter of Decided because her VMA performance was amazing. So I think everybody should enjoy that. And with that, I will bid you adieu. Adios. Au revoir. Au re my friends. Bye bye.
- [65:14]
Howie Mandel
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Katy Charlewood
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Howie Mandel
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Katy Charlewood
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Howie Mandel
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Boost Mobile Hype Man
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Howie Mandel
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Katy Charlewood
Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.