Who Did What Now – Episode 160: Josephine Baker - Part I

Host: Katie Charlwood
Release Date: September 15, 2025

Episode Overview

In this first part of a two (possibly three)-part series, host Katie Charlwood dives deep into the early life, formative challenges, and skyrocketing rise of the iconic Josephine Baker. With her trademark lively, irreverent style, Katie traces Baker’s journey from her traumatic childhood in St. Louis to her transformative success and freedom in Paris. This episode tackles issues of race, exploitation, resilience, sexuality, and the glittering excess of 1920s Paris, all while celebrating Baker’s trailblazing impact on music, dance, and popular culture.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Early Life and Family Dynamics (05:27–18:00)

• Birth and Uncertain Paternity (05:27)

  • Josephine Baker born as Frieda Josephine MacDonald on June 3, 1906, to Carrie MacDonald.
  • Paternity unclear: Carrie claims vaudeville drummer Eddie Carson as father, but his name is not on the birth certificate and he’s largely absent from Baker’s life.

• Carrie MacDonald’s Struggles

  • Carrie, a Black woman in 1900s Missouri, gives birth in an “exclusively white hospital” (dubbed the Social Evil Hospital), an unusual situation hinting at possible relationships with her white employers.
  • Segregation and anti-miscegenation laws are central to the context of Baker’s birth and early life.
  • Carrie’s forced abandonment of her dancing career after Josephine’s birth fosters resentment, directed particularly at Josephine.

• Poverty and Abuse (12:41)

  • Katie details Josephine’s difficult upbringing: “Josephine probably just had, like, puppy fat… but it was Josephine who gets the brunt of it… her mother would straight up tell her that she hated her and wished she was dead” (14:51).
  • After Carrie’s remarriage to Arthur Martin (perpetually unemployed), the family experiences severe poverty and domestic instability, with young Josephine sleeping on the floor to escape her stepfather’s rank feet.

• Early Exploitation and Abuse (16:42)

  • At eight, Josephine is forced to work as a domestic servant for white families, where she suffers extreme cruelty, including physical abuse and emotional deprivation.
  • Vivid anecdotes: sleeping in a box in the basement with the family dog, getting burned and scalded as punishment, and being forced to kill a pet chicken.

“Mrs. Kaiser… not only racist but a purveyor of cruelty. She burns Josephine's hands for using too much soap in the laundry… forces her hands into the boiling water as punishment.” (19:31)

Trauma and Survival – East St. Louis Massacre (25:11–29:16)

• Racial Violence of 1917
  • Baker, at 11, survives the East St. Louis massacre, a violent eruption of racist brutality resulting from labor tensions and strikebreaking.
  • Katie stresses this pivotal event: “She saw what was happening and she fucking ran. She go-go-gadget legged out of there… her home is gone, it's ashes. She’s so scared… sleeps in a cardboard box scavenging for food” (26:11).

Teenage Years: Early Marriages and Stage Beginnings (29:17–34:23)

• Forced Work and Child Marriage

  • Leaves school at 12; marries Willy Wells at 13 to escape her family—a marriage marked by further poverty and violence.
  • Begins performing, initially by luck, eventually gaining entry into circle of traveling blues singer Clara Smith.

• Blossoming Stage Career

  • Gains experience as a dresser and chorus girl, earning $10 a week—“her way out of St. Louis… she leaves without saying goodbye to her family” (31:11).
  • At 15, marries a second husband, Willy Baker, whose name she keeps the rest of her life.
  • Encounters colorism: in St. Louis, seen as too light-skinned; on Broadway, considered too dark.

The Birth of a Legend – New York to Paris (34:24–44:37)

• Breakthrough in New York

  • Auditions for “Shuffle Along” and succeeds, standing out in the chorus with her playful, comedic dancing.
  • “She acts like she doesn’t know the routine… she’s acting really goofy… pulls faces… then slowly but surely, as the dance progresses, she gets better until she’s perfect.” (36:11)

• Move to Paris – A New World

  • Recruited for “La Revue Nègre” in 1925, Josephine and her all-Black troupe arrive in France, stunned there’s no segregation on the train: “they are shocked when they are informed that they can just sit wherever they want because there’s no segregation in France” (40:33).
  • Discusses colonialist obsessions and “primitivism”—the Parisian fascination with Black culture and bodies: “Primitivism is eugenics in a different font” (41:11).

• Using Stereotypes to Her Advantage

  • Baker consciously leans into “primitivism,” turning others’ prejudices into career catapults.
  • Becomes iconic for her “danse sauvage” in the banana skirt, an act that “was the talk of twentieth-century Paris” (44:38).

Notable quote:
“She would be comedic, goofy, clown about, then she would be wild, right? Her dance sauvage was the epitome of this. She is shaking her bum, moving her stomach, and writhing her hips in a way that no one had seen before.” (44:46)

Paris Stardom, Extravagance, and Sexuality (44:46–59:39)

• Cultural Trendsetter

  • “White women are rubbing almond oil onto their skin… putting egg whites into their hair to try and style it like hers” (46:08).
  • Marketing endorsements, banana-skirted dolls, and high fashion become part of her allure.

• Extravagant Lifestyle

  • Amasses a menagerie of animals (cheetah Chiquita, snake Kiki, pig Albert, parakeet, goat, and more), all adorned in luxury—“Chiquita the Cheetah had a diamond collar,” rides in a Rolls Royce, and buys Marie Antoinette’s bed (50:21, 51:01).
  • Diva stories: famously late for her own shows, found “naked in her dressing room eating lobster with her fingers” (52:33).

Katie on Baker’s freedom:
“Anything I’ve ever read, from the horse’s mouth, from Josephine Baker herself… there’s always been a love of her body. She didn’t feel forced; she felt free.” (53:44)

• Sexual Liberation and Personal Life

  • Openly bisexual, Baker relishes her freedom and fluidity (“she is out there living her best life. She’s shagging who she wants to shag”) (57:45).
  • Entanglements with men and women, including director Max Reinhardt and Colette; even caught having sex backstage during a performance.

• Businesswoman in Paris

  • Opens Chez Josephine restaurant with her lover-manager “Count” Giuseppe Pepita Albertina.

“She’s 21 years old and writing her first memoirs… she's loved a life. Performing, dancing, singing, cocaine-fueled orgies, liaisons with Colette… how much energy do you have, Josephine?” (58:19)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Josephine’s resilience in poverty:
  “She wore dirty clothes and was often hungry… she would wear these second hand heels but they just sawed the heels off to make them flat.” (14:12)

• On the East St. Louis massacre:
  “What Josephine witnessed stayed with her all her life. She saw what was happening and she fucking ran… her home is gone, it’s ashes.” (26:12)

• On Paris and race:
  “Their flabbers are gasted… when they are informed that they can just sit wherever they want… because there’s no segregation in France.” (40:33)

• On dancing and performance persona:
  “She stands out in the chorus line like an exclamation mark.” (36:51)

• On Josephine’s legacy and image:
  “She curates this image of herself, this eccentric, chic fashion icon… and, I mean, eccentric, right? She starts collecting animals.” (47:08)

• On sexual freedom:
  “She just says that she’s not immoral, only natural. Right? Good for her. This is who she is. It’s normal. She loves who she loves.” (57:50)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Sources & Intent of Series – 03:11–05:26
• Early Life, Birth, and Family – 05:27–14:12
• Abuse and Child Labor – 14:13–21:00
• East St. Louis Massacre – 25:11–29:16
• First Marriage, Stage Entry – 29:17–34:23
• Broadway & Colorism – 34:24–37:41
• Move to Paris, Primitivism – 38:55–41:50
• Banana Skirt: The Danse Sauvage – 44:38–46:03
• Cultural Impact, Paris Life – 46:04–51:49
• Ownership of Sexual Expression – 52:58–54:33
• Queerness & Polyamory – 57:42–58:53
• Conclusion & What’s Next – 59:40–61:00

Final Thoughts

Katie Charlwood crafts an engaging, deeply human portrait of Josephine Baker, highlighting her wit, survival instincts, audacious creativity, and astute use of performance as self-liberation and social critique. The episode closes with a teaser: Baker’s work is only just beginning (“Next stop, Nazis”), setting the stage for her legendary role in the French Resistance.

Further Recommendations

• Book: Queen of the Skies: The Inspiring Story of Bessie Coleman – for more on pioneering women.
• Podcast: Scam Goddess
• TV: Abbott Elementary and a viral clip of a French man’s sandwich stolen by a pug named Albert (for laughs).

If you enjoyed this episode, stay tuned for part two—which promises espionage, wartime intrigue, and even more extraordinary Baker adventures!