Podcast Summary: Who Did What Now (Ep. 162)

Josephine Baker – Death of a Showgirl, Part III
Host: Katie Charlwood
Date: October 2, 2025

Overview of the Episode

In this final installment of Katie Charlwood’s three-part series on Josephine Baker, Katie explores Baker’s postwar life, her civil rights battles in the US, the creation and challenges of her “Rainbow Tribe” family, her financial collapses, and her dramatic final years. The episode balances Baker’s idealism, activism, artistic brilliance, and the complex and sometimes controversial legacy she left behind. Katie weaves in her trademark humor, wry asides, and candid reflections on history’s complexities.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Recap and Setting the Stage

[03:00–06:00]

• Quick-fire catch-up on Josephine Baker’s earlier life: from poverty in St. Louis to Parisian fame, spy work, and international celebrity.
• Baker's drive to use her stardom for fighting racism, seeking belonging, and building a diverse family.

Notable Quote:
“I talk about the stuff that gets overlooked and hidden and there are so many facets and parts of history which are so often misrepresented and dismissed. And so I try and tell a full story. I try and give full context, and I'll always work hard at doing that.”
—Katie Charlwood [03:40]

2. Postwar Honors and Challenges

[06:00–10:00]

• Baker is celebrated in France after WWII for her work in the Resistance, receiving top military honors (“Croix de Guerre,” “Rosette de la Resistance,” “Chevalier of the Legion d’Honneur”).
• Personal life: Marriages, love affairs, and new beginnings.
• Baker’s vision for a multicultural, multi-religious family (“the brotherhood”) and the purchase of Château des Milandes.

3. Racism and Celebrity in the USA

[12:00–24:00]

• Success in Europe contrasts with persistent discrimination in the US.
• Baker refuses to perform for segregated audiences, leading to financial and professional sacrifice.
• Activism: fighting for integrated venues, public speaking against racial inequality, speaking at Fisk University about her experiences in France vs. America.
• Famous stand at Miami’s Copa City Club, leading to the first integrated audience there.

Notable Quote:
“She has a moral compass, right? She has a code of ethics. She has what some people call a fucking backbone, okay?”
—Katie Charlwood [17:10]

4. Incidents and Activism

[24:00–34:00]

• Josephine Baker's advocacy extends into worker rights, directly confronting discrimination (e.g., challenging San Francisco’s transit authority on hiring).
• [30:00]: Named NAACP’s Woman of the Year; May 20, 1951, is Josephine Baker Day, celebrated with a Harlem parade with 100,000 in attendance and feted as Best Dressed Woman in America.

Notable Moment:
“She performs a citizen’s arrest against some dude, he’s like, hurling these, like, racial slurs at her. And she’s like, ‘not today, sir, not today.’”
—Katie Charlwood [30:15]

5. Clashes with American Media and Fallout

[34:00–44:00]

• Stork Club incident: denied service in NYC, Baker publicly accuses the club of racism.
• Fallout with journalist Walter Winchell: he mocks her war record and accuses her of communism and fascism during the Red Scare, leading to blacklisting, show cancellations, and visa revocation.
• She is forced out of the US for over a decade, facing further discrimination abroad (Cuba).

Notable Quote:
“This is a poor show on his part… he deliberately tries to destroy a woman's career, a black woman's career, no less.”
—Katie Charlwood [40:20]

6. International Optimism and Political Missteps

[44:00–49:00]

• Unwitting involvement with Argentina’s dictator Juan Perón (husband of Eva Perón), misunderstanding the political realities and facing criticism from the NAACP for the association.
• Realization and quick distancing after seeing Argentina’s social realities.

7. The Rainbow Tribe – Idealism and Reality

[49:00–62:00]

• Baker’s grand social experiment: adopting children of diverse backgrounds and religions, aiming to show the world that brotherhood is possible.
• Practical challenges: adoptions from around the globe, raising children in view of the public at Château des Milandes, and the cost of running the estate.
• The children’s experiences: Josephine as the “fun parent,” instability, and at times neglect.
• The symbolic and problematic aspects: assigning religions, putting children on display for tourists (“They must be made visible so that people can see…” —Josephine Baker [66:30]).

Memorable Story:
“At One point, a monkey steals a baby. That was a thing that happened. A monkey came in and stole a baby out of a crib. I feel like I shouldn't have to explain to anyone that that is not a safe environment.”
—Katie Charlwood [64:10]

8. Civil Rights March, Financial Ruin, and Betrayal

[62:00–70:00]

• March on Washington 1963: first and only female speaker, immediately preceding MLK Jr.

• Quote from speech:

  “I have walked in the palaces of kings and queens and into the houses of presidents and much more, but I could not walk into a hotel in America and buy a cup of coffee.” —Josephine Baker [67:45]

• Crippling debts threaten the estate; costly decisions despite well-meaning donations (from stars like Grace Kelly, Pope Paul VI).

• Personal failings: sending her gay son Yari away out of fear, despite being bisexual herself (“That's a shitty thing to do.” —Katie Charlwood [70:25]).

9. Last Stand, Public Humiliation, and Rescue

[71:00–75:00]

• Eviction and public spectacle: Josephine barricades herself inside Château des Milandes, is forcibly removed by eight men in her nightdress, holding a kitten, leading to another heart attack.
• “If I die tonight, I want to be buried in the pink nightgown of my agony.”
  —Josephine Baker [73:25]
• Global outpouring of support, including from Princess Grace of Monaco, who gifts Baker a villa.

10. Final Years and Death

[75:00–79:00]

• A final resurgence: gala performance in Monaco, “Josephine” show, cheered by the world’s elite.
• Health and financial woes continue; strenuous tours at age 67.
• Suffering a stroke surrounded by rave reviews of her final show; death at 68.
• Honored with France’s first-ever full military funeral for an American-born woman; over 20,000 in attendance.

Notable Reflection:
“She risked her life in so many occasions trying to do the right thing. And yeah, she was a diva and dramatic and just very much, all of the muchness. And I fucking love her for it.”
—Katie Charlwood [79:00]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Recognition:
  “When a person of a particular group that you have discussed that's not your group, tells you that you're doing something right, it matters and it means something to me.”
  —Katie Charlwood [02:45]
• On Activism:
  “She could have easily turned around and gone, ‘no, I will perform to this black crowd and perform to this white crowd and then you will give me the money...’ But no...because she has a moral compass, right? She has a code of ethics. She has what some people call a fucking backbone, okay?”
  —Katie Charlwood [17:10]
• On the Rainbow Tribe:
  “She put them on display because she said…and I quote, ‘There was no point in adopting children of every colour to be kept away from everyone else. They must be made visible so that people can see that it is in fact possible…’”
  —Josephine Baker (quoted by Katie) [66:30]
• On Her Downfall:
  “You have eight grown ass men dragging an elderly black woman outside of her home in the rain. Like, and she's in her negligee, right? ... That's not a good look for anybody.”
  —Katie Charlwood [73:05]
• Josephine at the March on Washington:
  "I have walked in the palaces of kings and queens and into the houses of presidents and much more, but I could not walk into a hotel in America and buy a cup of coffee."
  —Josephine Baker (March on Washington, quoted by Katie) [67:45]
• Katie’s Final Reflection:
  “All your faves are problematic and some people do the wrong thing for what they believe are the right reasons…But she was such an inspiration and crossed borders when others wouldn't or couldn't and stood up when it was time to stand.”
  —Katie Charlwood [79:05]

Important Segment Timestamps

• [03:00] Baker’s major life recap and context-setting
• [12:00] US career struggles, civil rights fight
• [17:00] Refusing segregated venues and losing income
• [24:00] Bus driver incident and activism stories
• [30:00] NAACP Josephine Baker Day parade
• [34:00] Stork Club incident, Walter Winchell accusations
• [44:00] Encounter with Juan Perón in Argentina
• [49:00] Rainbow Tribe origin and adoptions begin
• [66:30] Rationale for “displaying” her children publicly
• [67:45] March on Washington, Baker’s speech
• [70:25] Sending Yari away for being gay
• [73:25] Chateau eviction and dramatic protest
• [79:00] Final performance, death, and legacy

Conclusion

Katie Charlwood crafts an empathetic, nuanced, and at times unvarnished portrait of Josephine Baker, celebrating her fierce commitment to justice, while acknowledging the contradictions and ethical puzzles she left behind. Listeners receive a panoramic, intimate, and often humorous look at a woman who reshaped celebrity, civil rights, and the possibilities of chosen family—while never abandoning her gleefully diva spirit.

For further exploration: Katie briefly plugs other history podcasts and mystery book recs at the end, and invites listeners to see her live shows.

If you enjoyed the Josephine Baker series, please rate and review the podcast. If not, “shut your mouth, you don’t have to say anything, don’t worry about it.”
—Katie Charlwood [79:15]