Ep.6: A Person of Interest - Who Took Misty Copsey?

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Who Took Misty Copsey?

Episode 6: "A Person of Interest"

Host: Sarah Kaelin
Date: August 20, 2025

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Overview

This episode intensifies the focus on the reinvestigation into the 1992 disappearance of 14-year-old Misty Copsey. Host Sarah Kaelin explores the complicated history of the police investigation, the lingering suspicions around Reuben Schmidt—a young man Misty tried to call for a ride home the night she vanished—and scrutinizes the failings and frustrating gaps in the casework by local law enforcement. Through interviews with investigators, family, and journalist Sean Robinson, the episode probes whether Misty was the victim of an opportunistic serial predator, or someone she knew, raising fresh questions about Schmidt and his tangled family connections.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Re-examining Persons of Interest: The Case Against and Around Reuben Schmidt

(Timestamps: throughout, especially 02:06-21:13, 23:20-41:10)

• Original Suspicions & Alibis:

  • Misty’s friend Trina confirms that calling Reuben for a ride home was always the girls’ plan; Reuben said he didn't have gas to help (02:06).
  • After Misty disappeared, her mother Diana immediately suspected Reuben:

    “Diana... was like Ruben, Ruben, Ruben, you need to look at Reuben.” – Sean Robinson (30:46)

• Red Flags:

  • Reuben made strange comments after Misty’s disappearance, e.g., telling a coworker,

    “Yeah, I know about it. I know exactly where she is buried... They found the clothes, but she is buried six miles from there. They’re off by six or six and a half miles.” – Reported by Reuben’s boss (34:07)

  • He sometimes claimed blackouts and admitted to driving out toward his grandmother’s farm (near where Misty's jeans were found) the day after she disappeared (34:49, 37:24).

• Unreliability & Missing Evidence:

  • The original police investigation failed to interview key witnesses until months later and did not thoroughly search Reuben’s car, which was eventually scrapped, losing possible physical evidence (11:12, 47:57).
  • Reuben’s polygraph results were inconclusive, with evidence he may have manipulated the outcome (38:55), yet police appeared to accept these results over his suspicious actions and inconsistent stories.

2. Police Errors & Cold Case Frustrations

(06:41-13:17, 15:56-20:38)

• Case Mishandling:

  • Police initially treated Misty as a runaway, prejudiced by perceptions of her home life (09:39).
  • Major witnesses, including Misty’s best friend, were not interviewed until months after her disappearance—a “biggest concern” in the original investigation (11:12).

• Retrospective Clean-Up:

  • In response to bad publicity in 2009, Puyallup PD gave Detective Jason Visnaw exclusive focus on the case ("unheard of in law enforcement") and organized a war room to reconstruct the messy, incomplete case files (08:05, 08:47).
  • Detective Visnaw:

    "We spoke with every single person who might have had anything to do with the case... it's just frustrating to come back and try to do things that you wish had been done in the first place because memories have faded..." (11:35)

• Forensic Ambivalence:

  • Forensic testing has not been able to confirm if the jeans found were Misty’s; DNA on the jeans is a partial sample, useless for national databases and usable only for direct comparison (13:17, 19:01).
  • Unnamed car fibers were found on the garments, and hairs from an unidentified third party, but were not linked to Misty, Diana, or known offenders (13:43).

3. Schmidt Family Dynamics and Strange Behaviors

(25:11-30:53, 56:41-59:36)

• Family Complications:

  • Schmidt family is large and troubled, with multiple half-brothers and uncles, some with histories of serious crimes (25:11-27:00).
  • Rumors circulated about Reuben’s “uncle” (possibly a half-brother or actual uncle) being involved in transporting him or Misty the night she vanished.

• Personal Accounts:

  • Diana Copsey recalls seeing Reuben flee a convenience store, then talking to an older man in an orange pickup truck, who drove away with him (29:38).
  • Later, online forum posts by a claimed relative suggest family members “know more than they'd like to tell the police,” referencing covering for Reuben after Misty’s disappearance (58:24-59:36).

4. Current Status: Leads, Suspects, and Lingering Doubt

(17:08-20:53, 41:10-52:46, 53:42-59:36)

• No One Ruled Out:

  • Detective Visnaw states:

    “There’s nothing out of the realm of possibilities... there’s no one who... we could absolutely rule out.” (17:08)

  • Even Reuben Schmidt is not "absolutely not" a suspect (18:18).

• Alternative Suspects:

  • Other predators are considered:
    • The man in the yellow Chrysler Cordoba (a convicted sex offender, identity withheld).
    • Robert Leslie Hickey, a known kidnapper/rapist active months after Misty vanished.
    • The possibility of the Green River Killer, who dumped bodies in the area.
  • Sean Robinson:

    “I believe she would not have gotten into a car with a stranger... I think she saw someone she knew...” (51:57)

• Farm Search & Follow-up:

  • In 2010-2011, Schmidt's grandmother's farm (near site where evidence was found) was thoroughly searched, including with cadaver dogs, but nothing surfaced (53:45).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Law Enforcement’s Failings:

  “The police work on this case was truly abysmal.”
  — Sarah Kaelin (07:47)

• On Mistaken Early Theories:

  "By all accounts, she was kind of a latchkey kid... I think the investigators...just decided that her home life must have sucked and she just took off. They didn’t do a lot of legwork to say one way or the other."
  — Jason Visnaw (09:39)

• On Investigative Frustration:

  "We can do a lot to try to make up for past mistakes, but we can't ever really erase the big ones."
  — Sarah Kaelin (12:02)

• On Evidence Lost:

  "By the time they got onto this, the car had been sold and scrapped and there was no way to search it for DNA. So they never got the chance. They can’t prove she was in the car."
  — Sean Robinson (47:57)

• On Persistent Suspicions:

  “Somebody out there knows something that they’re not telling us and hopefully at some point somebody tells us something that we need to know.”
  — Jason Visnaw (20:43)

• On Misty’s Likely Fate:

  “I believe she would not have gotten into a car with a Stranger... I think she saw someone she knew. And that's... my best guess.”
  — Sean Robinson (51:57)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Recap of prior investigations & context: 01:20–06:41
• Reuben Schmidt as person of interest: 02:06–21:13, 23:20–41:10
• Police reinvestigation and failures: 06:41–13:17, 15:56–20:53
• Family background & rumors: 25:11–30:53, 56:41–59:36
• Strange statements and timeline gaps: 33:36–40:32
• Grandeur’s farm search & investigation dead ends: 53:42–55:35
• Online witness/relative post revelations: 58:23–59:36

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Conclusion & Takeaways

Episode 6 lays bare a host of errors by the original investigators, leading to vital lost evidence and a case that remains directionless decades later. The focus circles back to Reuben Schmidt, whose connection to the crime is muddled by contradictory statements, family secrecy, and missed opportunities—yet he remains neither cleared nor indicted. The episode also reflects broader truths about cold cases: the irrevocable loss caused by initial missteps, the enduring pain of families left behind, and the uneasy coexistence of hope and frustration for those pursuing justice. The host foreshadows further deep dives into the Schmidt family as the search for answers continues.

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Transcript

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[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

Previously on who took Misty Copsey?

[Diana Copsey (Misty's Mother)]

She got along with everybody. Super friendly, kind, gentle soul. Western Washington was a veritable killing field for young women.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

Like, I don't think people can even wrap their brains around how many serial.

[Diana Copsey (Misty's Mother)]

Rapists and predators were out running around. It's insane. She changed in the car from her school clothes to play clothes, and then her mom dropped us off. The day was a great day. We were together. We were having fun.

[Jason Visnaw (Puyallup Police Detective/Captain)]

You know, for years, my mom felt like people thought she was crazy. I mean, every time she would even.

[Sean Robinson (Investigative Journalist)]

Talk to the Puyallup police department, it.

[Jason Visnaw (Puyallup Police Detective/Captain)]

Was like, you guys think I'm crazy, and I'm not crazy.

[Diana Copsey (Misty's Mother)]

The original plan was our friend would pick us up that drove, and that.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

Was Ruben from I D and arc Media. I'm Sarah Kaelin, and this is who took Misty Copsey. After meeting with Misty's best friend Trina, I feel fairly confident that she's not holding anything back. And while I rule him out completely, I also feel pretty confident that Michael Reiner did not play a role in Misty's disappearance. Based on the way Trena described their time together that night. Still, there's a sea of sharks circling around Misty, including the man in the yellow Chrysler Cordoba. In March 1993, an anonymous caller reached out to the News Tribune saying that during the fair he had seen a girl he thought was Misty getting into a yellow Chrysler Cordoba with a man who the caller recognized a man who turns out to be a convicted sex offender. The man's name has never been released publicly, so that's one possibility. Then there's Robert Leslie Hickey, who abducted and raped a 15 year old girl off the main street near the fairgrounds just a few months after Misty disappeared. There's the infamous Green River Killer, who who was at large in western Washington in the early 90s and was known to dump bodies near where Misty's jeans, socks and underwear were found. There are too many others to even name. At that time, the Pacific Northwest really was a cesspool of unnamed serial predators. But talking to Trina certainly raised some serious red flags for me about one person in particular, Reuben schmidt. Reuben's the 18 year old who Misty called repeatedly for a ride home the night of the fair. Trina told me unequivocally that she and Misty had always planned to call Reuben for a ride home. The girls followed the plan and according to Trina, Reuben bailed on them, said he didn't have gas or money to get gas. Trina says that she left Misty waiting for a bus home to Spanaway. We also know that around 9:20pm a bus driver spoke to a girl matching Misty's description and told her, sorry kid, you're out of luck. There are no more buses going in that direction tonight. So what if Misty, now alone and truly stranded in downtown Puyallup late at night, called Reuben again, desperate this time? What if he finally caved and went to pick her up? There's a reason I haven't dug too deep into Rubin as a suspect until now, namely the fact that he's such an obvious suspect. The original Puyallup detectives did look at Rubin as a person of interest and they seemingly ruled him out, or at least never pursued charges or anything close. I'm not just talking about the original investigators. In 1992, there was also a more recent investigation of Misty's case led by a Puyallup police detective named Jason Visnaw. I reach out to him when I first arrive in Washington after a busy week. He responds that he's happy to meet. A few days later, I head to the Puyallup police station we sit down in a conference room. Jason isn't the lead detective on the case anymore. He's been promoted to captain, and he brings along the detective who is now leading the case. This is the first time in years I've been working on a case completely from the outside. I've gotten spoiled in a lot of my consultation work where I'm there at the request of the police in charge of the case. In Mobile County, Alabama, I'm a sworn special deputy, and even Cherokee county in Kansas City welcomed me with open arms to assist in a case there. I have, I think, a nice collegial relationship with Captain Visnaw, But I am under no illusions that here in Washington I am anything other than a civilian, maybe even a bit of an interloper. This has been a nagging concern for me. And it gets worse as Jason starts telling me the story of why he got involved in Misty's case and in the first place.

[Jason Visnaw (Puyallup Police Detective/Captain)]

Probably around 2006 or 2007, the Tacoma News Tribune had been submitting public disclosure requests for the case file. And the initial response was, no, this is an active investigation. And then TNT is saying, you sure? Because we don't see anything being done.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

That TNT reporter asking for the case file is, of course, Sean Robinson, the fishing vest wearing investigative journalist. We met a few episodes back, and as we heard from Sean, the city of Puyallup ultimately sided with Shawn, giving him exactly eight hours to review and make copies of anything he wanted from the entire case file.

[Jason Visnaw (Puyallup Police Detective/Captain)]

Which was a terrible decision, really detrimental to the case in one way, but a positive thing in another way, because the article that was written by Sean Rob, it really highlighted some poor police work and drug the city and the police department through the mud.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

True, but fairly so. The police work on this case was truly abysmal. So when Sean's article dropped like a bomb in 2009, department leadership decided, whoa.

[Jason Visnaw (Puyallup Police Detective/Captain)]

We need to do something about this.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

What they did was to assign Jason to the case exclusively, which is really.

[Jason Visnaw (Puyallup Police Detective/Captain)]

Unheard of in law enforcement because our detectives have so many cases that they're working.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

Puyallupd isn't exactly the NYPD with thousands of officers and a huge dedicated cold case unit. So this case is a big deal. By 2009, Jason had a good decade of experience as an officer, but not much in the way of homicide investigation experience. So Puyallup also calls up a retired longtime homicide investigator to work as a consultant. Their first step is to clean up the original case file.

[Jason Visnaw (Puyallup Police Detective/Captain)]

I took pictures of the actual case file When I first began, because it was a mess. It was just a few binders and a whole bunch of loose papers just thrown in some boxes. Everything was paper.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

To have any hope of organizing this mess, PPD gets Jason his own war room of sorts. A giant conference room in City hall.

[Jason Visnaw (Puyallup Police Detective/Captain)]

And we had rows of long tables in this conference room. We took every piece of paper out of this case file and every single piece of paper was laid out.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

It's a massive effort. But finally he has the entire case file laid out, a step by step record of the original investigation. And once he does, the issues are unignorable.

[Jason Visnaw (Puyallup Police Detective/Captain)]

Understanding that law enforcement has come a very, very long way and is a far cry from where we were in 92. That said, the overwhelming opinion of the investigators at the time that she disappeared was that she was a runaway. By all accounts, she was kind of a latchkey kid because her mother worked graveyard shift and Misty was left to fend for herself. I think the investigators took that information and the information that her mother was reported to be an alcoholic and just decided that her home life must have sucked and she just took off. They didn't do a lot of legwork to say one way or the other. They did get a tip from another student who claimed to have received a phone call from Misty like a week later. And so I think they just took that and said, oh, there you go. There's the evidence we needed to say she's runaway. She's out there somewhere. The mind blowing thing to me is that she was with a friend the night she disappeared on September 17, 1992. Nobody talked to that friend until February of 1993. That is the biggest, biggest concern with the original investigation, in my opinion.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

I appreciate that Jason acknowledges the issues with the original investigation. That isn't always the case. Some departments will twist themselves into pretzels to defend the indefensible. In Cold Case Review. With all this information gathered and organized, he realizes he can't take anything for granted. He needs to start from square one.

[Jason Visnaw (Puyallup Police Detective/Captain)]

We spoke with every single person who might have had anything to do with the case. We spoke with people who weren't spoken to in 1993. The whole thing is just frustrating to come back and try to do things that you wish had been done in the first place because memories have faded, brains have been fried on drugs, and people just don't remember things that they would have known initially.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

This is pretty much always the way it goes in cold cases. It's the hardest thing about working them all the best intentions or new advancements in the world can't turn back time. And we can do a lot to try to make up for past mistakes, but we can't ever really erase the big ones. So they get some hazy recollections that don't carry as much weight as their original statements. Did all of Jason's efforts turn up anything new? Anything to help point the investigation in one direction or another?

[Jason Visnaw (Puyallup Police Detective/Captain)]

We definitely learned some things that were new. We learned some things that. That we debunked. Some things that were documented in 1993 that were just not true, did not happen the way they were said to have happened.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

Intriguing, but vague. He won't say more. I try a different topic, Forensic testing of the genes. Jason acknowledges PPD's uncertainty about whether they really were the ones Misty was wearing that night.

[Jason Visnaw (Puyallup Police Detective/Captain)]

We did a lot of forensic work, a lot of lab work, to try to confirm that they were hers or not hers. And we still haven't been able to confirm one way or the other.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

But when I ask about the actual results of all that forensic testing, that's.

[Jason Visnaw (Puyallup Police Detective/Captain)]

Probably going a little too far. Probably can't really talk about that evidence any further.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

According to both Sean Robinson's reporting and my own examination of the handful of forensic testing documents Colton was able to share, there were a few interesting findings on the clothes recovered from the side of 410. I want to be careful not to divulge anything that may jeopardize future investigation tactics, but I can say that there were human hairs found on the clothes that were tested. And results showed these hairs did not come from Diana or Misti, nor did they match any profiles in codis, the national DNA database. Over the years, some have used that to discount the genes as being Misti's. I have no such inclination. As all my favorite criminalists repeatedly point out, hair is so transient, it could be anyone's from anywhere. It's meaningless. As evidence for elimination. There were also numerous fibers found on the jeans, the socks and the underwear. And state labs identified these as coming from the interior carpet of a particular make and model of vehicle. That information has not been made public. I know the make and model, but for investigative purposes, I am not going to share it. There were also paint flecks found on the clothing, which were identified as nail polish. The hair fibers and paint flecks were tested in 2006 to see if there were any links to the Green River Killer. They were also tested in 2009 in the wake of Sean Robinson's report to look for DNA profiles I was hoping Jason would help me suss out if any testing has been done since, most importantly, M Vac testing. Taking one last shot, I ask if there's anything that really sticks in his head. A potential witness he didn't get to talk to or some nagging detail that keeps him up at night.

[Jason Visnaw (Puyallup Police Detective/Captain)]

Sure, there are things like that that I'm not going to mention what they are.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

Yeah, we're all kind of laughing because at this point, it feels like we're playing a game, lobbing questions at Jason to see which ones he'll swing at and which he won't. He is a worthy adversary. I get it. I'm not working this case for them. And while I wish it were different, I completely understand and respect the way he's handling the questions. All the same, the vagueness coming out of PPD is deeply unsatisfying. It's the same reason Sean Robinson pestered the department for the case file back in the mid 2000s. They can swear up and down that they're working on the case and it's an active investigation and they know critical information. But what good is that if the case is still just sitting cold 30 years later? @ what point do you decide the possible benefits outweigh the risks of trying something completely different? The result is that, at least as far as Jason's willing to say on the record, anything is possible. Nothing and no one has officially been ruled out.

[Jason Visnaw (Puyallup Police Detective/Captain)]

There's nothing out of the realm of possibilities in my mind. To me, there's no one who was floated as a suspect that we could absolutely rule out. Every person that's brought up like, oh, look, this bad person was in your area at the time. And Hickey, perfect example.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

Robert Leslie Hickey is the man who abducted and raped a teenager from Puyallup, then threw her over an embankment. Just a few months after Misty disappeared, he went to prison. But after he got out, he did almost the exact same thing again. When Jason says this, I feel the slightest shred of hope that he might start sharing more.

[Jason Visnaw (Puyallup Police Detective/Captain)]

Could he have abducted and killed her? Absolutely.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

But he's quick to clarify that in his mind. The list of suspects doesn't end here.

[Jason Visnaw (Puyallup Police Detective/Captain)]

There's a number of people that were at work in this area during that time frame that could have done this. And the biggest challenge is that we don't have misty. Even Reuben Schmidt? I wouldn't say absolutely not. He's not a suspect.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

Even Reuben Schmidt. I do have a tendency to overanalyze language, but something about the word even makes it sound like Ruben is some way out of left field possibility.

[Jason Visnaw (Puyallup Police Detective/Captain)]

We don't have any solid information to link him as a suspect either.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

Jason says they did talk to Reuben as part of the reinvestigation. They even got a DNA sample, but there's no word on if it was ever tested against the genes.

[Jason Visnaw (Puyallup Police Detective/Captain)]

So there's DNA evidence on the genes. We can only do a direct comparison. There's no we can't enter that into codis.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

If I understand what he's saying, however vaguely, the DNA on the genes is only a partial sample, meaning it can be used for comparing to a known sample, but it's not a big enough sample to enter into a national database. Again though, Jason won't go further. In other words, he won't answer my question as to whether they checked Rubin's DNA profile against the DNA found on the genesis. Presumably if they did, it was not a match because surely they would have acted on that information. But I am still wondering if they've done MVAC testing. Jason won't answer that one on the record. Frustrating as this interview is, I don't think Jason is trying to be antagonistic. I think he's just worried about jeopardizing sensitive information. Jason put a lot of time and effort on this case and I think he truly wants to get answers.

[Jason Visnaw (Puyallup Police Detective/Captain)]

Being assigned to this case in 2009 and spending so much time on it and hoping for a positive outcome. The idea is that someday you'll have resolution. And now being so invested in it and looking at retirement and not just leaving with something undone, but having Misty's mom pass away before any kind of resolution, it's heartbreaking.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

We agree on that for sure. And on something else.

[Jason Visnaw (Puyallup Police Detective/Captain)]

Somebody out there knows something that they're not telling us and hopefully at some point somebody tells us something that we need to know.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

Indeed, Jason hasn't given me anything specific, but after speaking with him I'm even more convinced I need to get a lot more answers on Ruben Schmidt.

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[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

Luckily, there's someone who is happy to talk about all things Rubin.

[Sean Robinson (Investigative Journalist)]

Nobody knows for sure whether Rubin comes and picks her up.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

Sean Robinson, the journalist who first reviewed the case file, and Sean is an open book. I ask Shaun to take me through Rubin's movements, actions. There are so many rumors swirling around this case. I want to really break down what we know and what we don't about Reuben Schmidt. Shaun starts. From the moment Misty discovers there are no more buses home to Spanaway that night, the question is, what happens next? Does Misty call Ruben again and beg him to pick her up once more?

[Sean Robinson (Investigative Journalist)]

Does he go to pick her up? It's just not clear. We just don't know.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

What we do know is that the next morning Diana gets home and Misty is nowhere to be found. Her first move is to call 91 1. Her second is to call Trina. Diana's third move is to call Reuben Schmidt.

[Sean Robinson (Investigative Journalist)]

She wants to know, where's my kid? Where's my kid? Where's my kid? Reuben Hedges doesn't know.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

He admits that Misty called him, but says he didn't have the gas to go pick her up. That's it. Later that day, Diana calls Reuben's house again and someone else picks up.

[Sean Robinson (Investigative Journalist)]

Diana talks to Reuben's roommate, James Tinsley.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

Just to clarify, because the word roommate is a little misleading, James was a 14 year old friend whose family was letting Reuben and several of his siblings stay with them at the time because they had been kicked out of their apartment. In any case, James picks up and.

[Sean Robinson (Investigative Journalist)]

He says, I don't know him. And his uncle went to pick up.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

Misty, the mysterious uncle. Since first hearing rumors of an uncle, I've wanted to know more about who this is. So I started digging into Ruben's family history, trying to basically build out a family tree through public records and old newspaper articles. It's not an easy task. Turns out Reuben has a big family. I've pieced together that his mom had at least 13 children. One died in childbirth. I found an article in a local newspaper archive from 1984 about Reuben's mom being discovered living in a station wagon with six of her kids while expecting another baby any day. 10 year old Reuben was one of those six children. Reuben has lots of uncles, as well as a handful of significantly older half brothers. One of his half brothers is a guy by the name of Clint Garrison, who I find out is serving 106 years in prison for a series of brutal home invasion rapes in the Puyallup and spanaway areas in 1994. Clint is nine years older than Reuben, a half brother from another father. I wonder if in a family this size, Reuben might loosely call Clint an uncle because of the age difference. With a record like that, I wonder if Clint could be the quote unquote uncle who Reuben went with on the night of the fair. I bring up these older half brothers with Shawn. As I understand it, they're actually half brothers.

[Sean Robinson (Investigative Journalist)]

There's three of them.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

Yeah. And one of them I'm very interested in.

[Sean Robinson (Investigative Journalist)]

One of them is a home invasion rapist.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

Yeah.

[Sean Robinson (Investigative Journalist)]

Who could not have done it. He was incarcerated.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

He was incarcerated.

[Sean Robinson (Investigative Journalist)]

He is not the one.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

Turns out Shawn's already determined that Clint Garrison was in prison at the time of Misty's disappearance. So that means we can rule out whether Clint was with Reuben the night Misty disappeared. There are two others, Mark and Eric Garrison. I've learned from a source I cannot name, but who is close to the family that Mark exhibited a pattern of some seriously problematic behaviors. The source shared personal stories of interactions with him that are concerning. He also has six convictions on his record, including felonies before and after Misty disappeared. He has twice been convicted of violating domestic violence court orders. These raise red flags for me in terms of criminal psychology and behavioral analysis. But no one has explicitly given me tips about him being involved in her disappearance or about anyone other than an uncle. So for now, I can rule him out. As for eric, I found 12 convictions on his record. A combination of felony and misdemeanor charges for rape, robbery, burglary, theft, and criminal trespass going back to 1989. While not great, these are not nearly as concerning as violations of domestic violence court orders. My source did not say a single word about Eric, his behavior, or any potential involvement, so I am failing to connect him to the case. Plus, it could also be that this uncle was Reuben's actual uncle. I turn back to the Schmidt family tree. Reuben has at least two uncles on his dad's side and at least two more on his mom's side. His mom's brothers have not been in trouble with the law as far as I can tell, so I rule them out. All this reminds me of something Misty's brother Colton told me. He said that not long after Misty disappeared, Diana had a chance encounter with Rubin at a convenience store. When Diana tried to speak with him, he turned and ran out of the store. Diana saw him hop into an orange pickup truck and speak rather animatedly with an older man in the driver's seat, who then sped off. Diana never knew what to make of it, but she felt sure that whatever was said, whatever sent the pair of them tearing out of the parking lot, had something to do with Misty. She didn't know who was driving the pickup truck. I've heard through sources who I cannot name for safety reasons, that one of Reuben's uncles drove an orange pickup truck. His dad's brother, Uncle Don Schmidt. And this makes me wonder, is uncle don't the person who Reuben got in the truck with after running into Diana? Is Uncle Don, the person who Reuben left the Tinsley house with on the night Misty disappeared? If so, were Reuben and Uncle Don in an orange pickup that night, it certainly seems possible. And to me, the clear next step is to further investigate Reuben Schmidt and his uncles. Colton tells me that back in 1992, when Misty first disappeared, Diana felt the same way for months. She said the cops needed to look at Reuben.

[Sean Robinson (Investigative Journalist)]

Sean confirmed this Diana who's like Ruben Rubin, Ruben, you need to look at Reuben.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

Then in February 1993, the search party finds the jeans and the police start taking the case more seriously. As they dig into the case, they investigate Reuben. And I'm sorry to say, as I learned more about their investigation, I simply could not believe how it went.

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[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

In March 1993, Puyallup PD Sergeant Herm Carver talks to Rubin's boss. They work at a barbecue spot. According to Sgt. Carver's notes, Ruby Ruben's boss, quote, feels Reuben knows something. Talked a lot about Misty. End quote.

[Sean Robinson (Investigative Journalist)]

Reuben, who is young and immature, brags about things that he might know. It's all this hearsay stuff. Oh yeah, I know where she's buried. They're wrong.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

The boss tells police that Reuben had made some suspicious comments about Misty and the genes that had been found. Specifically, the boss described a lengthy conversation that he had with Reuben about Misty and shared the following quotes from yeah, I know about it. I know exactly where she is buried. They found the clothes, but she is buried six miles from there. They're off by six or six and a half miles.

[Sean Robinson (Investigative Journalist)]

Is this stupid bravado by a teenager? Can't discount it.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

Or does Reuben know something about where Misty's body is? Reuben's former boss has since died. I cannot speak to him myself, but he confirmed this account to the News Tribune in advance of the publication of Shawn's 2009 investigative series the Stolen Child. And Sean reported on what happened next. After speaking with Reuben's boss, detectives head to the barbecue joint to talk to Reuben. When he arrives and sees the cops, Reuben runs. Eventually, they're able to talk to him. Reuben tells them about the calls from Misty, the fact that he didn't have the gas to go get her. It's all pretty consistent with what he'd told Diana as far as those suspicious things he said to his boss. He tells police he was just trying to get his boss off his back. But then he says more and now it gets interesting. According to Puyallup PD officer's notes, Reuben says he sometimes has blackouts and thinks he had one that night. He can't remember anything that happened after Misty's last call. He does remember driving out to his grandmother's farm the next day. A farm that just so happens to be way down Highway 410. A farm that just so happens to be around 10 miles from where the jeans were discovered. From an investigator's perspective, it's not just fishy when a potential suspect in a case pulls out the blackout card. It's almost always regarded as completely complete and total bullshit. It's just that much worse when that person also admits that he drove out to his grandmother's Farm, which just so happens to be in the exact same direction where critical physical evidence was discovered. When I drove out 410 to see the spot where Misty's jeans, socks and underwear were found retracing the route from downtown Puyallup, I kept asking myself, who would have a reason to go all the way out to this specific area so far from Puyallup? Well, now I have one answer to that question. But Sean Robinson tells me that in 1993, Reuben Schmidt initially told police that the day after Misty disappeared, he made this drive, but can't remember why.

[Sean Robinson (Investigative Journalist)]

He does say, yes, I drove up to my grandmother's place in Buckley, which is just dense woodland forest land. And I don't know how I got there or what I did and I don't remember. Sometimes I have blackouts like, okay, he's saying he drove out there at the same time we're hearing repeatedly that he was telling Misty, I don't have enough gas, I don't have enough money. Money for gas. How does I don't have enough gas and I don't have enough money translate to I can drive 30 miles or whatever it is to Buckley, to grandma's farm in my gas guzzling Chevy Nova. He got money and gas somehow, somewhere.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

This is a really good point. If Reuben managed to drive the 30 miles out to the farm, either he was lying or he found a way to get gas or he got a ride from someone else, maybe an uncle in an orange truck. Either way, for Sean, this still leaves one big open question.

[Sean Robinson (Investigative Journalist)]

Did he give her a ride? We do not know. Did he tell the cops, I drove up to an area that is not that far from where these genes were discovered? Yes, he did. Did they polygraph him about his statements about, oh, they've got it wrong. She's buried six and a half miles away. Yes, they did.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

Right. The polygraph. According to Sean. After telling the police his story, Rubin asks the cops, can a polygraph or a hypnotist help me find out if I did anything that night? They oblige. Sergeant Carver writes in his notes, Rubin proves to be an unusual polygraph subject nearly fell asleep on numerous occasions. Very little galvanic skin response. Another detective writes, quote, the results were inconclusive, but leaned towards being truthful. However, Schmidt was putting himself to sleep during the actual test, which may have altered the results. Schmidt was awake and alert prior to and just after the examination. It was apparent that he was trying to manipulate the results.

[Sean Robinson (Investigative Journalist)]

Hypnotize himself is too strong a word. But if he just understands it's based on your heartbeat and your tension, and you just have to stay calm and breathe deep.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

Well, it's also been months and months that he has thought about it since then. So just the natural anxiety or response you would get thinking about something like that would have begun to have diminished.

[Sean Robinson (Investigative Journalist)]

But we don't know.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

Polygraphs are not the most reliable tool in a detective's kit. They're not admissible in court. But back in 1993, there were plenty of people, including detectives, who put a lot more stock in them. The Puyallup detectives seem to have followed the thinking of the time. Instead of pressing on Rubin's absolutely bizarre story, the detectives turn their attention to someone else.

[Sean Robinson (Investigative Journalist)]

They discover this business with Trina and Michael Reiner, and then they're like, oh, my God, that's the guy. That's got to be the guy. That's got to be the guy. Understandable. Understandable that they would look at him. He's hanging out with a young girl. He was in the scene in the moment. And you can see from the records that the Puyallup cops were elated at that time. They thought they had it. Even when Diana was still talking about Reuben, they were like, no, you know the one Detective Herm Carver's like, ruben did not do this and pounds his fist.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

I have tried to verify Shawn's account of Herm Carver's behavior. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to reach Herm. And no one at the PPD is able to verify that this is exactly how it went. But we can say with certainty that for the next several months, the cops are laser focused on Michael Reiner. They talk to Trina about him, ask if she thinks he might have gone back to the fairgrounds and found Misty. She says she doesn't know for sure, but doesn't think so. They speak with his friends. They have an undercover cop buy his car off him, and they search his car. In April 1993, they send samples to the crime lab. According to Sean, they decide to hold off on speaking to him until they get the results. But the results take a while. In July 1993, they interview Michael Reiner. The next month, in August, they polygraph him. According to investigators notes, as Michael Reiner passed the polygraph, he is eliminated at this point of being involved. The lab results from his car soon come back, and they showed nothing of evidentiary value to Misty's case. With no other leads, the police then turned back to Rubin. In September 1993, nearly a year after Misty disappeared. Puyallup PD officers finally speak with Reuben's so called roommate, James Tinsley. Sean reviewed James's statement to the police and it's fascinating. James tells police that Misty called Reuben looking for a ride that night. But Reuben, who was 18 years old, had a girlfriend with him, a girl who Tinsley allegedly reported to the police was only 13 years old. James reportedly adds that the girl was jealous of Misty. She didn't want Reuben to go, so he said no. But then eventually the girlfriend left and according to James, Reuben did the same. Five or ten minutes after the girlfriend left, Reuben also left the house again. I reached out to Reuben to verify this. He did not respond. Shawn published pieces of James statement. The officer asks, did Reuben say where he was going? James, who was 15 years old at the time, responds, quote, no, he just left. Just weird because he usually either tells me or he takes me and he just left, got in his car and left. The officer asks if James remembers when Reuben came back. James responds, quote, no, I can't give you an exact time. It was sometime. It was sometime kind of late, late, kind of late on that night. He estimates that it was sometime between 11pm and 1am the officer then asks if Reuben ever said where he'd gone. James says no and then adds, quote, I didn't ask him. Especially after we found out she was missing. It was embarrassing. According to Sean's reporting, James said that Reuben didn't see seem concerned about Misty's disappearance. He said he thought Reuben could be capable of kidnapping and killing somebody. He added that Reuben had, quote, a really, really short temper. There's so much to unpack here. The 13 year old girlfriend, the really, really short temper. Why didn't James share all of this with Diana the day after Misty disappeared? Why didn't he tell the police what he did tell Diana? That Reuben left with his uncle to go pick up Misty. Why didn't Reuben tell police what he told Diana? That he went to a party. And the timeline. James says Reuben came back sometime between 11pm and 1am according to the PuyallUPD officer's notes of their father first conversation with Reuben months earlier. He had told them that he drove out to the farm the next day. Fine. But in another set of those same officers notes, they write that Reuben had, quote, had a blackout and woke up at his grandmother's property near Enumclaw. And in yet another set of notes, the officers say the same thing that Reuben quote, told us that he woke up at the farm the next morning. So which is it did he drive to his grandmother's house the next day or did he wake up there the next morning? If he woke up there the next morning, how does that line up with James saying Reuben came home sometime between 11pm and 1am I'm not sure what to make of any of it. I attempted to find James Tinsley to see if he would speak with me. As I searched, I came across several drug related arrests and two convictions. Sean Robinson reports that when police attempted to speak with James during their reinvestigation of the case, James's mind was drug addled. This combined with the cases I found on his record tell me that a conversation would likely add little value at this point. So all we have is James's original statement made in September 1993. At that time he was a 15 year old kid and I don't know of any accusations made by anyone then that he was using any substances. His memories are relatively fresh, the details at least reasonably reliable. So I think they're worth taking as seriously as we would any other witness statement. While James statement raises questions, there's one thing of which I'm sure Reuben left the house the night Misty disappeared. Now one might think that the obvious next step would be to search Reuben's car for evidence. Unfortunately, the police can't do so. Because on June 24, 1993, according to state records reviewed by Sean Robinson, Rubin's 1974 Chevy Nova was quote, crushed at a wrecking yard.

[Sean Robinson (Investigative Journalist)]

Was she in the car? We don't know. Because by the time they got onto this, the car had been sold and scrapped and there was no way to search it for DNA. So they never got the chance. They can't prove she was in the car.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

It's possible that Rubin's Chevy Nova had nothing to do with the case. Even if Rubin was involved regardless, it's still odd that he decided to have it destroyed after police turned their attention to Michael Reiner. And not searching it sooner is a failure on the part of the police at the time. If the car did hold any answers, they were lost forever in a junkyard somewhere in western Washington. The detectives at least get one thing right. They drive out to the farm with Reuben and while there they start to understand why Reuben keeps saying the search parties are looking in the wrong spot. Sean published pieces of the police officer's notes. They wrote that Reuben thought the clothes were found near a bridge about six and a half miles from the farm. In reality, they were found slightly farther from the farm, about 8 miles. As the crow flies or about 11 miles driving. They wrote, quote, this was interesting, as he had told his employer, Rodriguez, that Misty's body was actually buried from six to six and a half miles from the clothes, which would put it in the area of his grandmother's farm. End quote. Rather than searching the farm, though, the detectives decide to simply give Rubin another polygraph test. He passes. The detective writes, it appears that Reuben Schmidt was not involved in the disappearance of Misty Copsey. He, however, has no alibi as to his movements during the evening of her disappearance, as well as no memory. He claimed that he had a blackout. He acknowledges that he left the residence of James Tinsley, but does not remember what he did. Investigation to continue. Investigation to continue. Except it doesn't. This effectively marked the end of Puyallup's investigation of Misty's case. This is so frustrating. Over the years that follow, according to his criminal records, Rubin has been charged with multiple offenses demonstrating concerning behav, including domestic violence and restraining order violations. Behavioral patterns matter, and they should have carried a lot more weight than a passing result on a polygraph, particularly when potential manipulation was noted from the first test. Still, it would be a mistake to focus entirely on Rubin. There are too many variables, and there were too many active predators working in the immediate area targeting girls just like Misty. None of them can be written off just because there's one dangerous young man in her life.

[Sean Robinson (Investigative Journalist)]

When you think about Misty, the eternal problem is no body. So you're stuck with maybes. You're stuck with could have beens. Could it have been Gary Ridgeway? Yes, it could have been. If this ever gets solved in some way and we ever find Misty's remains and it turns out that he did it after all, I will not be surprised, because it's absolutely possible. I wrote about how this area was sort of a shark tank for predators, and he's the shark. He is the big one. But there are others.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

Is it possible Misty got snatched by one of these random predators? Yes. But at least for his part, Shawn doesn't think that's what happened, because I.

[Sean Robinson (Investigative Journalist)]

Still live in that area. I will drive past the fairgrounds and that 711 that's still there, and I go and pick up my mail right at the spot where the phone booth was where she made the phone call. And I'm like, God, I just wish I had a time machine and I could just see what happened and whether she was picked up in a green Nova or a Cordoba or something. I mean, I believe she would not have gotten into a car with a Stranger. I'm not saying it's impossible that somebody like the Green River Killer could have just snatched her, but I don't think it happened that way. I think she saw someone she knew. And that's. That's my best guess.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

It's clear that Sean Robinson sees this as so much more than a story, that he truly cares about Misty, about Diana, and about what the injustice of it all means to his community. I agree with Shawn. It's possible Misty was nabbed by a total rando, a monster who stumbled upon her that night. But it is far more likely she was picked up by someone she knew. Everything we know about violent crime aligns with this. And after everything I've just heard, I think there's a damn good chance that the person who picked her up was Reuben Schmidt. I ask Sean for one more small favor. Where exactly is this grandmother's farm? The one that Reuben admitted going to the night Misty disappeared? Like, if we're gonna go out there and poke around, I want to see the land.

[Sean Robinson (Investigative Journalist)]

You know, they went out there.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

By they, he means Jason Visna and Puyallup Police during the reinvestigation, as I understand it. Again, mostly because Sean Robinson reported it. In September 2010 and May 2011, Jason organized a search of the Schmidt farm, about 45 acres of land combed by volunteers and cadaver dogs. I asked him about this search, and he said they didn't find anything of substance. Sean pulls up a map on my computer and starts zooming in on an area down Highway 410.

[Sean Robinson (Investigative Journalist)]

You go that way, and you're going up toward the jeans. You go this way, and it's like this weird little turn, and it's, like, right in here.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

Okay, now that I finally have the location, I've got to go see this place for myself. My producer Tessa and I are sitting in the car pulled over on the side of the road. As I start searching land records, I'm trying to figure out who owns this Schmidt family farm today. I'm no stranger to knocking on random doors on an announced, but I'd like to know whether I'm about to meet Reuben Schmidt's grandmother or someone else entirely. Tarceline sales search. Hang on, let me try again. I admit that doing this on my hotspot, crammed behind the wheel of a Jeep isn't exactly ideal. Eventually, I figure out that Rubin's grandparents, Fred and Vera Schmidt, owned the property until vera died in 2012. Fred had been died years earlier. It looks like the property sat mostly unoccupied. For a few years. A couple named Aaron and Lindsay bought it in 2016. This is all the information I need. I think we just go.

[Diana Copsey (Misty's Mother)]

Okay.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

I plug in the address we got from Sean Robinson. I can't help feeling a bit of deja vu up until the very last few turns. It is the exact same route we took to the spot where Misty's jeans were found. We follow the same route, turn for turn, eventually finding ourselves on Highway 410. After passing through the small downtown of Buckley, we make a turn and find ourselves in more open farmland, eventually turning onto the road the following farm is supposed to be on. Is this private? No, it's a real road. Okay. This is remote. It's very remote. The road is paved, but very narrow. A wall of rocks and sky touching evergreens on our left and a steep drop off into a ravine on our right, also thick with trees. A farmhouse comes into sight just ahead of us. Us.

[Diana Copsey (Misty's Mother)]

Oh, boy. Is it that?

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

I think it's that.

[Diana Copsey (Misty's Mother)]

I think it's that.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

Oh, my God. Whoa. Yeah, that's it. We can see a white farmhouse, an old barn to one side of it, and a collection of small outbuildings peppered around the property. Down a steep hill, there's a loud rushing creek, and, of course, lots more trees. It's. It's really quite beautiful. Quite peaceful, but it is eerie. It's also very isolated. It's so private, they could do whatever they wanted. They can take all the time they need to effectively dispose of remains in any number of ways. The farmhouse seems to be new, or at least a major renovation of. Of what would have been here for all the years the Schmidts owned it. The barn and most of the other little buildings look quite old. Definitely at least as old as this case. Is there anything of evidentiary value hidden in them? What about that creek below the property? Where does it lead? And how much of this rugged terrain has been properly searched? I drive down the steep driveway. No one seems to be home. So I park, walk up to the door, and tuck my business card under the door frame. As we're driving home, Tessa starts searching posts in a Facebook group dedicated to Misty's case, looking for any information about the Schmidt family and this farm. Suddenly, she gasps. We switch on the recorder. This is. This was posted in 2014. Someone named Helene Khan.

[Diana Copsey (Misty's Mother)]

Posted.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

Does anybody know how I can get in contact with Misty's family? I am the nephew of the man.

[Diana Copsey (Misty's Mother)]

Believed to be the suspect behind her disappearance.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

I've done a pretty deep dive into Ruben's family tree and it's a complex one, no doubt, but I've never seen a nephew named Halim Khan. This guy claims that he's been told many times to keep his mouth shut, but clearly he's not doing so. He goes on to say that his, quote, mother and uncle know more than they'd like to tell the police. Tessa keeps reading. Okay, so then the. The administrator of that Facebook group says.

[Diana Copsey (Misty's Mother)]

What are your mother and uncle's names?

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

And he says, julian Ruben, Reuben's nephew. The son of his sister Julie. I've seen the name Julie within Reuben's giant family tree. This supposed nephew goes on saying that his mother had some involvement.

[Diana Copsey (Misty's Mother)]

She knew where and how Reuben ended up at my grandmother's house the night of the disappearance. She helped Reuben hide out at my grandmother's house. And then when people questioned him, she coached him to pass the lie detector test.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

Clearly, that means there are family details that are are not part of the same story that's been told over and over and over again through 10,000 games of telephone. Clearly, there's more than Ruben has ever told the police, and I'm determined to figure out what he's keeping so close to his chest. Coming up on who took Misty Copsey? She mentioned it to me about, you know, Ruben was the one who had something to do with that girl that was missing. And I was like, what girl that was missing?

[Jason Visnaw (Puyallup Police Detective/Captain)]

There was a red shed that was broken into the door panel was broken inside that. The only thing that was kind of rummaged through was an old toolbox, like wooden truck bed toolbox.

[Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator)]

If you profile that this was someone that knew her. Otherwise, if it was just a serial killer picked up, they would have just dumped the body. What's the sense of going to such detail to hide it? I mean, I think that's what's important about this, is that normally it would have been just discarded. That's what I would say, that it's a known relationship. If anything I say can help bring them closure somehow, then let's rock it, because they deserve it. It's not fair. Who Took Misty Copsey is produced by ARC Media for id. You can follow our show wherever you get your podcasts. We'd love it if you could take a second to leave us a five star review on Apple. Podcast.

[Jason Visnaw (Puyallup Police Detective/Captain)]

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[Diana Copsey (Misty's Mother)]

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[Diana Copsey (Misty's Mother)]

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