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Ep.6: A Person of Interest - Who Took Misty Copsey? | Wave AI Podcast Notes

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Ep.6: A Person of Interest

Who Took Misty Copsey?

Wed Aug 20 2025

Summary

Podcast Summary: Who Took Misty Copsey?

Episode 6: "A Person of Interest"

Host: Sarah Kaelin
Date: August 20, 2025

Overview

This episode intensifies the focus on the reinvestigation into the 1992 disappearance of 14-year-old Misty Copsey. Host Sarah Kaelin explores the complicated history of the police investigation, the lingering suspicions around Reuben Schmidt—a young man Misty tried to call for a ride home the night she vanished—and scrutinizes the failings and frustrating gaps in the casework by local law enforcement. Through interviews with investigators, family, and journalist Sean Robinson, the episode probes whether Misty was the victim of an opportunistic serial predator, or someone she knew, raising fresh questions about Schmidt and his tangled family connections.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Re-examining Persons of Interest: The Case Against and Around Reuben Schmidt

(Timestamps: throughout, especially 02:06-21:13, 23:20-41:10)

Original Suspicions & Alibis:
- Misty’s friend Trina confirms that calling Reuben for a ride home was always the girls’ plan; Reuben said he didn't have gas to help (02:06).
- After Misty disappeared, her mother Diana immediately suspected Reuben:
  
  “Diana... was like Ruben, Ruben, Ruben, you need to look at Reuben.” – Sean Robinson (30:46)
Red Flags:
- Reuben made strange comments after Misty’s disappearance, e.g., telling a coworker,
  
  “Yeah, I know about it. I know exactly where she is buried... They found the clothes, but she is buried six miles from there. They’re off by six or six and a half miles.” – Reported by Reuben’s boss (34:07)
- He sometimes claimed blackouts and admitted to driving out toward his grandmother’s farm (near where Misty's jeans were found) the day after she disappeared (34:49, 37:24).
Unreliability & Missing Evidence:
- The original police investigation failed to interview key witnesses until months later and did not thoroughly search Reuben’s car, which was eventually scrapped, losing possible physical evidence (11:12, 47:57).
- Reuben’s polygraph results were inconclusive, with evidence he may have manipulated the outcome (38:55), yet police appeared to accept these results over his suspicious actions and inconsistent stories.

2. Police Errors & Cold Case Frustrations

(06:41-13:17, 15:56-20:38)

Case Mishandling:
- Police initially treated Misty as a runaway, prejudiced by perceptions of her home life (09:39).
- Major witnesses, including Misty’s best friend, were not interviewed until months after her disappearance—a “biggest concern” in the original investigation (11:12).
Retrospective Clean-Up:
- In response to bad publicity in 2009, Puyallup PD gave Detective Jason Visnaw exclusive focus on the case ("unheard of in law enforcement") and organized a war room to reconstruct the messy, incomplete case files (08:05, 08:47).
- Detective Visnaw:
  
  "We spoke with every single person who might have had anything to do with the case... it's just frustrating to come back and try to do things that you wish had been done in the first place because memories have faded..." (11:35)
Forensic Ambivalence:
- Forensic testing has not been able to confirm if the jeans found were Misty’s; DNA on the jeans is a partial sample, useless for national databases and usable only for direct comparison (13:17, 19:01).
- Unnamed car fibers were found on the garments, and hairs from an unidentified third party, but were not linked to Misty, Diana, or known offenders (13:43).

3. Schmidt Family Dynamics and Strange Behaviors

(25:11-30:53, 56:41-59:36)

Family Complications:
- Schmidt family is large and troubled, with multiple half-brothers and uncles, some with histories of serious crimes (25:11-27:00).
- Rumors circulated about Reuben’s “uncle” (possibly a half-brother or actual uncle) being involved in transporting him or Misty the night she vanished.
Personal Accounts:
- Diana Copsey recalls seeing Reuben flee a convenience store, then talking to an older man in an orange pickup truck, who drove away with him (29:38).
- Later, online forum posts by a claimed relative suggest family members “know more than they'd like to tell the police,” referencing covering for Reuben after Misty’s disappearance (58:24-59:36).

4. Current Status: Leads, Suspects, and Lingering Doubt

(17:08-20:53, 41:10-52:46, 53:42-59:36)

No One Ruled Out:
- Detective Visnaw states:
  
  “There’s nothing out of the realm of possibilities... there’s no one who... we could absolutely rule out.” (17:08)
- Even Reuben Schmidt is not "absolutely not" a suspect (18:18).
Alternative Suspects:
- Other predators are considered:
  - The man in the yellow Chrysler Cordoba (a convicted sex offender, identity withheld).
  - Robert Leslie Hickey, a known kidnapper/rapist active months after Misty vanished.
  - The possibility of the Green River Killer, who dumped bodies in the area.
- Sean Robinson:
  
  “I believe she would not have gotten into a car with a stranger... I think she saw someone she knew...” (51:57)
Farm Search & Follow-up:
- In 2010-2011, Schmidt's grandmother's farm (near site where evidence was found) was thoroughly searched, including with cadaver dogs, but nothing surfaced (53:45).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Law Enforcement’s Failings:

“The police work on this case was truly abysmal.”
— Sarah Kaelin (07:47)
On Mistaken Early Theories:

"By all accounts, she was kind of a latchkey kid... I think the investigators...just decided that her home life must have sucked and she just took off. They didn’t do a lot of legwork to say one way or the other."
— Jason Visnaw (09:39)
On Investigative Frustration:

"We can do a lot to try to make up for past mistakes, but we can't ever really erase the big ones."
— Sarah Kaelin (12:02)
On Evidence Lost:

"By the time they got onto this, the car had been sold and scrapped and there was no way to search it for DNA. So they never got the chance. They can’t prove she was in the car."
— Sean Robinson (47:57)
On Persistent Suspicions:

“Somebody out there knows something that they’re not telling us and hopefully at some point somebody tells us something that we need to know.”
— Jason Visnaw (20:43)
On Misty’s Likely Fate:

“I believe she would not have gotten into a car with a Stranger... I think she saw someone she knew. And that's... my best guess.”
— Sean Robinson (51:57)

Timestamps for Important Segments

Recap of prior investigations & context: 01:20–06:41
Reuben Schmidt as person of interest: 02:06–21:13, 23:20–41:10
Police reinvestigation and failures: 06:41–13:17, 15:56–20:53
Family background & rumors: 25:11–30:53, 56:41–59:36
Strange statements and timeline gaps: 33:36–40:32
Grandeur’s farm search & investigation dead ends: 53:42–55:35
Online witness/relative post revelations: 58:23–59:36

Conclusion & Takeaways

Episode 6 lays bare a host of errors by the original investigators, leading to vital lost evidence and a case that remains directionless decades later. The focus circles back to Reuben Schmidt, whose connection to the crime is muddled by contradictory statements, family secrecy, and missed opportunities—yet he remains neither cleared nor indicted. The episode also reflects broader truths about cold cases: the irrevocable loss caused by initial missteps, the enduring pain of families left behind, and the uneasy coexistence of hope and frustration for those pursuing justice. The host foreshadows further deep dives into the Schmidt family as the search for answers continues.

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Transcript

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Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator) (1:20)

Previously on who took Misty Copsey?

Diana Copsey (Misty's Mother) (1:24)

She got along with everybody. Super friendly, kind, gentle soul. Western Washington was a veritable killing field for young women.

Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator) (1:32)

Like, I don't think people can even wrap their brains around how many serial.

Diana Copsey (Misty's Mother) (1:38)

Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator) (2:06)

Was Ruben from I D and arc Media. I'm Sarah Kaelin, and this is who took Misty Copsey. After meeting with Misty's best friend Trina, I feel fairly confident that she's not holding anything back. And while I rule him out completely, I also feel pretty confident that Michael Reiner did not play a role in Misty's disappearance. Based on the way Trena described their time together that night. Still, there's a sea of sharks circling around Misty, including the man in the yellow Chrysler Cordoba. In March 1993, an anonymous caller reached out to the News Tribune saying that during the fair he had seen a girl he thought was Misty getting into a yellow Chrysler Cordoba with a man who the caller recognized a man who turns out to be a convicted sex offender. The man's name has never been released publicly, so that's one possibility. Then there's Robert Leslie Hickey, who abducted and raped a 15 year old girl off the main street near the fairgrounds just a few months after Misty disappeared. There's the infamous Green River Killer, who who was at large in western Washington in the early 90s and was known to dump bodies near where Misty's jeans, socks and underwear were found. There are too many others to even name. At that time, the Pacific Northwest really was a cesspool of unnamed serial predators. But talking to Trina certainly raised some serious red flags for me about one person in particular, Reuben schmidt. Reuben's the 18 year old who Misty called repeatedly for a ride home the night of the fair. Trina told me unequivocally that she and Misty had always planned to call Reuben for a ride home. The girls followed the plan and according to Trina, Reuben bailed on them, said he didn't have gas or money to get gas. Trina says that she left Misty waiting for a bus home to Spanaway. We also know that around 9:20pm a bus driver spoke to a girl matching Misty's description and told her, sorry kid, you're out of luck. There are no more buses going in that direction tonight. So what if Misty, now alone and truly stranded in downtown Puyallup late at night, called Reuben again, desperate this time? What if he finally caved and went to pick her up? There's a reason I haven't dug too deep into Rubin as a suspect until now, namely the fact that he's such an obvious suspect. The original Puyallup detectives did look at Rubin as a person of interest and they seemingly ruled him out, or at least never pursued charges or anything close. I'm not just talking about the original investigators. In 1992, there was also a more recent investigation of Misty's case led by a Puyallup police detective named Jason Visnaw. I reach out to him when I first arrive in Washington after a busy week. He responds that he's happy to meet. A few days later, I head to the Puyallup police station we sit down in a conference room. Jason isn't the lead detective on the case anymore. He's been promoted to captain, and he brings along the detective who is now leading the case. This is the first time in years I've been working on a case completely from the outside. I've gotten spoiled in a lot of my consultation work where I'm there at the request of the police in charge of the case. In Mobile County, Alabama, I'm a sworn special deputy, and even Cherokee county in Kansas City welcomed me with open arms to assist in a case there. I have, I think, a nice collegial relationship with Captain Visnaw, But I am under no illusions that here in Washington I am anything other than a civilian, maybe even a bit of an interloper. This has been a nagging concern for me. And it gets worse as Jason starts telling me the story of why he got involved in Misty's case and in the first place.

Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator) (27:09)

Turns out Shawn's already determined that Clint Garrison was in prison at the time of Misty's disappearance. So that means we can rule out whether Clint was with Reuben the night Misty disappeared. There are two others, Mark and Eric Garrison. I've learned from a source I cannot name, but who is close to the family that Mark exhibited a pattern of some seriously problematic behaviors. The source shared personal stories of interactions with him that are concerning. He also has six convictions on his record, including felonies before and after Misty disappeared. He has twice been convicted of violating domestic violence court orders. These raise red flags for me in terms of criminal psychology and behavioral analysis. But no one has explicitly given me tips about him being involved in her disappearance or about anyone other than an uncle. So for now, I can rule him out. As for eric, I found 12 convictions on his record. A combination of felony and misdemeanor charges for rape, robbery, burglary, theft, and criminal trespass going back to 1989. While not great, these are not nearly as concerning as violations of domestic violence court orders. My source did not say a single word about Eric, his behavior, or any potential involvement, so I am failing to connect him to the case. Plus, it could also be that this uncle was Reuben's actual uncle. I turn back to the Schmidt family tree. Reuben has at least two uncles on his dad's side and at least two more on his mom's side. His mom's brothers have not been in trouble with the law as far as I can tell, so I rule them out. All this reminds me of something Misty's brother Colton told me. He said that not long after Misty disappeared, Diana had a chance encounter with Rubin at a convenience store. When Diana tried to speak with him, he turned and ran out of the store. Diana saw him hop into an orange pickup truck and speak rather animatedly with an older man in the driver's seat, who then sped off. Diana never knew what to make of it, but she felt sure that whatever was said, whatever sent the pair of them tearing out of the parking lot, had something to do with Misty. She didn't know who was driving the pickup truck. I've heard through sources who I cannot name for safety reasons, that one of Reuben's uncles drove an orange pickup truck. His dad's brother, Uncle Don Schmidt. And this makes me wonder, is uncle don't the person who Reuben got in the truck with after running into Diana? Is Uncle Don, the person who Reuben left the Tinsley house with on the night Misty disappeared? If so, were Reuben and Uncle Don in an orange pickup that night, it certainly seems possible. And to me, the clear next step is to further investigate Reuben Schmidt and his uncles. Colton tells me that back in 1992, when Misty first disappeared, Diana felt the same way for months. She said the cops needed to look at Reuben.

Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator) (34:49)

Or does Reuben know something about where Misty's body is? Reuben's former boss has since died. I cannot speak to him myself, but he confirmed this account to the News Tribune in advance of the publication of Shawn's 2009 investigative series the Stolen Child. And Sean reported on what happened next. After speaking with Reuben's boss, detectives head to the barbecue joint to talk to Reuben. When he arrives and sees the cops, Reuben runs. Eventually, they're able to talk to him. Reuben tells them about the calls from Misty, the fact that he didn't have the gas to go get her. It's all pretty consistent with what he'd told Diana as far as those suspicious things he said to his boss. He tells police he was just trying to get his boss off his back. But then he says more and now it gets interesting. According to Puyallup PD officer's notes, Reuben says he sometimes has blackouts and thinks he had one that night. He can't remember anything that happened after Misty's last call. He does remember driving out to his grandmother's farm the next day. A farm that just so happens to be way down Highway 410. A farm that just so happens to be around 10 miles from where the jeans were discovered. From an investigator's perspective, it's not just fishy when a potential suspect in a case pulls out the blackout card. It's almost always regarded as completely complete and total bullshit. It's just that much worse when that person also admits that he drove out to his grandmother's Farm, which just so happens to be in the exact same direction where critical physical evidence was discovered. When I drove out 410 to see the spot where Misty's jeans, socks and underwear were found retracing the route from downtown Puyallup, I kept asking myself, who would have a reason to go all the way out to this specific area so far from Puyallup? Well, now I have one answer to that question. But Sean Robinson tells me that in 1993, Reuben Schmidt initially told police that the day after Misty disappeared, he made this drive, but can't remember why.

Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator) (41:10)

I have tried to verify Shawn's account of Herm Carver's behavior. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to reach Herm. And no one at the PPD is able to verify that this is exactly how it went. But we can say with certainty that for the next several months, the cops are laser focused on Michael Reiner. They talk to Trina about him, ask if she thinks he might have gone back to the fairgrounds and found Misty. She says she doesn't know for sure, but doesn't think so. They speak with his friends. They have an undercover cop buy his car off him, and they search his car. In April 1993, they send samples to the crime lab. According to Sean, they decide to hold off on speaking to him until they get the results. But the results take a while. In July 1993, they interview Michael Reiner. The next month, in August, they polygraph him. According to investigators notes, as Michael Reiner passed the polygraph, he is eliminated at this point of being involved. The lab results from his car soon come back, and they showed nothing of evidentiary value to Misty's case. With no other leads, the police then turned back to Rubin. In September 1993, nearly a year after Misty disappeared. Puyallup PD officers finally speak with Reuben's so called roommate, James Tinsley. Sean reviewed James's statement to the police and it's fascinating. James tells police that Misty called Reuben looking for a ride that night. But Reuben, who was 18 years old, had a girlfriend with him, a girl who Tinsley allegedly reported to the police was only 13 years old. James reportedly adds that the girl was jealous of Misty. She didn't want Reuben to go, so he said no. But then eventually the girlfriend left and according to James, Reuben did the same. Five or ten minutes after the girlfriend left, Reuben also left the house again. I reached out to Reuben to verify this. He did not respond. Shawn published pieces of James statement. The officer asks, did Reuben say where he was going? James, who was 15 years old at the time, responds, quote, no, he just left. Just weird because he usually either tells me or he takes me and he just left, got in his car and left. The officer asks if James remembers when Reuben came back. James responds, quote, no, I can't give you an exact time. It was sometime. It was sometime kind of late, late, kind of late on that night. He estimates that it was sometime between 11pm and 1am the officer then asks if Reuben ever said where he'd gone. James says no and then adds, quote, I didn't ask him. Especially after we found out she was missing. It was embarrassing. According to Sean's reporting, James said that Reuben didn't see seem concerned about Misty's disappearance. He said he thought Reuben could be capable of kidnapping and killing somebody. He added that Reuben had, quote, a really, really short temper. There's so much to unpack here. The 13 year old girlfriend, the really, really short temper. Why didn't James share all of this with Diana the day after Misty disappeared? Why didn't he tell the police what he did tell Diana? That Reuben left with his uncle to go pick up Misty. Why didn't Reuben tell police what he told Diana? That he went to a party. And the timeline. James says Reuben came back sometime between 11pm and 1am according to the PuyallUPD officer's notes of their father first conversation with Reuben months earlier. He had told them that he drove out to the farm the next day. Fine. But in another set of those same officers notes, they write that Reuben had, quote, had a blackout and woke up at his grandmother's property near Enumclaw. And in yet another set of notes, the officers say the same thing that Reuben quote, told us that he woke up at the farm the next morning. So which is it did he drive to his grandmother's house the next day or did he wake up there the next morning? If he woke up there the next morning, how does that line up with James saying Reuben came home sometime between 11pm and 1am I'm not sure what to make of any of it. I attempted to find James Tinsley to see if he would speak with me. As I searched, I came across several drug related arrests and two convictions. Sean Robinson reports that when police attempted to speak with James during their reinvestigation of the case, James's mind was drug addled. This combined with the cases I found on his record tell me that a conversation would likely add little value at this point. So all we have is James's original statement made in September 1993. At that time he was a 15 year old kid and I don't know of any accusations made by anyone then that he was using any substances. His memories are relatively fresh, the details at least reasonably reliable. So I think they're worth taking as seriously as we would any other witness statement. While James statement raises questions, there's one thing of which I'm sure Reuben left the house the night Misty disappeared. Now one might think that the obvious next step would be to search Reuben's car for evidence. Unfortunately, the police can't do so. Because on June 24, 1993, according to state records reviewed by Sean Robinson, Rubin's 1974 Chevy Nova was quote, crushed at a wrecking yard.

Sarah Kaelin (Host/Narrator) (48:12)

It's possible that Rubin's Chevy Nova had nothing to do with the case. Even if Rubin was involved regardless, it's still odd that he decided to have it destroyed after police turned their attention to Michael Reiner. And not searching it sooner is a failure on the part of the police at the time. If the car did hold any answers, they were lost forever in a junkyard somewhere in western Washington. The detectives at least get one thing right. They drive out to the farm with Reuben and while there they start to understand why Reuben keeps saying the search parties are looking in the wrong spot. Sean published pieces of the police officer's notes. They wrote that Reuben thought the clothes were found near a bridge about six and a half miles from the farm. In reality, they were found slightly farther from the farm, about 8 miles. As the crow flies or about 11 miles driving. They wrote, quote, this was interesting, as he had told his employer, Rodriguez, that Misty's body was actually buried from six to six and a half miles from the clothes, which would put it in the area of his grandmother's farm. End quote. Rather than searching the farm, though, the detectives decide to simply give Rubin another polygraph test. He passes. The detective writes, it appears that Reuben Schmidt was not involved in the disappearance of Misty Copsey. He, however, has no alibi as to his movements during the evening of her disappearance, as well as no memory. He claimed that he had a blackout. He acknowledges that he left the residence of James Tinsley, but does not remember what he did. Investigation to continue. Investigation to continue. Except it doesn't. This effectively marked the end of Puyallup's investigation of Misty's case. This is so frustrating. Over the years that follow, according to his criminal records, Rubin has been charged with multiple offenses demonstrating concerning behav, including domestic violence and restraining order violations. Behavioral patterns matter, and they should have carried a lot more weight than a passing result on a polygraph, particularly when potential manipulation was noted from the first test. Still, it would be a mistake to focus entirely on Rubin. There are too many variables, and there were too many active predators working in the immediate area targeting girls just like Misty. None of them can be written off just because there's one dangerous young man in her life.