Very Special Episodes: JFK's Forgotten Summer as a Journalist (with Rob Reiner)

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Who Killed JFK? – Very Special Episodes: JFK's Forgotten Summer as a Journalist (with Rob Reiner)"

Release Date: June 27, 2025

In this compelling episode of Who Killed JFK?, hosted by Dana Schwartz, Zaron Burnett, and Jason English, in collaboration with legendary filmmaker Rob Reiner, the podcast delves into a lesser-known chapter of President John F. Kennedy's life—his brief yet impactful foray into journalism during the tumultuous summer of 1945. This episode, titled "JFK's Forgotten Summer as a Journalist," explores how this period shaped Kennedy's political trajectory and provides new insights into his character and leadership qualities.

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1. Setting the Historical Context

[02:03] Dana Schwartz begins by transporting listeners back to April 27, 1961, when JFK arrived in New York City to address the American Newspaper Publishers Association at the Waldorf Astoria. This event occurred during Press Week, amidst heightened Cold War tensions following the Bay of Pigs invasion.

Key Points:

• JFK's speech titled "The President and the Press" emphasized the delicate balance between national security and press freedom.
• He urged journalists to exercise discretion, especially regarding sensitive military information, highlighting the importance of a united front in times of peril.

Notable Quote:

[04:02] Zaron Burnett: "The government and the press have customarily joined in an effort based largely on self-discipline to prevent unauthorized disclosures to the enemy in times of clear and present danger."

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2. Rob Reiner's Introduction to JFK's Journalism Career

[07:49] Jason English introduces Rob Reiner, renowned for his directorial works, who reflects on his own encounter with JFK's assassination years later. Reiner shares his enthusiasm for uncovering JFK's lesser-known journalistic endeavors, setting the stage for an in-depth exploration.

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3. JFK's Military Background and Its Influence

[10:25] Dana Schwartz recounts JFK's heroic service during World War II as a PT boat commander. His survival of the PT-109 incident not only solidified his leadership qualities but also instilled a profound sense of duty and global awareness that would later influence his political decisions.

Key Points:

• JFK's experience in the Pacific theater exposed him to the harsh realities of war.
• The loss of his brother, Joseph Kennedy Jr., during the war shifted JFK's path towards public service.

Notable Quote:

[16:20] Rob Reiner: "His World War II experience and especially his experience in the Pacific has a very important effect on young Jack Kennedy."

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4. Transition to Journalism: The Uncharted Path

Post-war, Jack Kennedy faced the daunting task of stepping into the political shoes his deceased brother was groomed for. Encouraged by his father and leveraging family connections, JFK transitioned into journalism, signing on as a syndicated special correspondent for the Hearst newspapers.

Key Points:

• JFK authored a bestselling book, Why England Slept, showcasing his analytical prowess and positioning him as a credible journalist.
• His reporting assignments included significant events like the founding conference of the United Nations in San Francisco and the British general elections of 1945.

Notable Quote:

[19:04] Rob Reiner: "He has the instincts of a good journalist. The unflagging curiosity, the eyes, the ears."

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5. Coverage of the United Nations Conference

JFK's first major assignment as a correspondent placed him at the heart of the San Francisco conference, where delegates from 46 nations convened to establish the United Nations. Amidst this historical backdrop, JFK provided insightful commentary on emerging global dynamics, particularly the nascent tensions between the United States and the Soviet Union.

Key Points:

• JFK's articles reflected a keen understanding of the shifting global power structures.
• He accurately predicted the rise of a bipolar world dominated by the U.S. and the USSR, an insight that later became central to Cold War strategies.

Notable Quote:

[25:29] Rob Reiner: "His awareness that Britain is a faded power, that Britain is emerging drastically weakened from the war... affirmed a conviction that the United States must become the leader of the west going forward."

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6. Reporting on British Elections and Churchill's Defeat

In London, JFK covered the 1945 British general elections, where Winston Churchill's Conservative Party suffered an unexpected defeat to the Labour Party. Through his journalistic lens, JFK analyzed the political shifts and their implications for post-war Europe.

Key Points:

• JFK's foresight in predicting Churchill's electoral defeat demonstrated his analytical skills and deep political acumen.
• His reporting underscored the broader trend of shifting political landscapes in post-war nations.

Notable Quote:

[33:54] Rob Reiner: "Even in one or two of his pieces... suggests that the conservatives are in some trouble, which to many people seems absolutely crazy."

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7. The End of JFK's Journalistic Journey and Its Impact

As World War II drew to a close, JFK's stint in journalism came to an end, but the experiences and insights he gained during this period profoundly influenced his subsequent political career. The connections he forged, the stories he covered, and the skills he honed laid the foundation for his future as a politician.

Key Points:

• JFK's decision to shift from journalism to politics was driven by a desire to enact change rather than merely report on it.
• His journalistic endeavors provided him with a unique perspective on international relations and leadership.

Notable Quote:

[43:17] Zaron Burnett: "A reporter is reporting what happens, he's not making it happen."

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8. Hypothetical Scenarios and Legacy

The episode ventures into speculative discussions about how JFK's life might have unfolded had circumstances been different, such as the survival of his brother Joseph Jr., exploring alternative career paths and leadership roles.

Key Points:

• The conversation highlights JFK's innate leadership qualities and his potential for various roles beyond the presidency.
• It underscores the significant "what ifs" in historical trajectories shaped by unforeseen events.

Notable Quote:

[45:00] Jason English: "He had a curious mind and he had a great way of expressing himself. Would he have made a great journalist? Of course he would."

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9. Conclusion: The Indelible Mark of JFK's Journalism

The hosts reflect on how JFK's brief journalism career was a pivotal chapter that enriched his understanding of global politics, media relations, and leadership. This episode serves as a reminder of the multifaceted experiences that shaped one of America's most iconic presidents.

Key Points:

• JFK's journalistic skills contributed to his charisma and effectiveness as a political leader.
• Understanding this forgotten summer provides deeper insights into JFK's motivations and policies as president.

Notable Quote:

[38:13] Rob Reiner: "What I take away from the diary is a sense that the world order has fundamentally shifted..."

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Final Thoughts

Who Killed JFK? masterfully intertwines historical analysis with engaging narratives, shedding light on JFK's lesser-known journey as a journalist. Through insightful discussions and expert interviews, including contributions from Rob Reiner, the podcast enriches our understanding of the personal and professional experiences that molded JFK into the leader he became.

For listeners seeking a nuanced perspective on JFK's life and the enduring mysteries surrounding his assassination, this episode offers a profound exploration of how a summer spent penning stories played a crucial role in shaping American history.

Transcript

[Jenny Garth]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Rob Reiner]

We're leaving today and entering a world of Cinderella, Castle sightseeing, Tron Light cycling, Jungle cruise, Bunning, Pirate swashbuckling, Everest climbing, Dapper Denning, Danning, Dunning, Soarin, soaring fireworks, show of I'm not crying, you're crying. World of Favorites for whatever you love, infinite worlds await at the most magical place on earth. Walt Disney World Resort.

[Jenny Garth]

This is Jenny Garth from I do part two. Can't afford Ozempic? Try WeGovy from Future Health. Just $199 and FDA approved for weight loss. No insurance or tricky syringes needed, just results. Visit futurehealth.com that's future without the E and start losing weight this week. Future Health Weight Loss Data based on independent studies sponsored by FutureHealth. Future Health is not a healthcare services provider. Meds are prescribed at providers discretion. Get this Adults with financial literacy skills have 82% more wealth than those who don't. From swimming lessons to piano classes, us parents invest in so many things to enrich our kids lives. But are we investing in their future financial success? With Greenlight you can teach your kids financial literacy skills like earning, saving and investing. And this investment costs less than that. After school treatment, start prioritizing their financial education and future today with a risk free [e-mail] iheart greenlight.com iheart I've never felt like this before. It's like you just get me. I feel like my true self with you. Does that sound crazy? And it doesn't hurt that you're gorgeous. Okay, that's it. I'm taking you home with me. I mean, you can't find shoes this good just anywhere. Find a shoe for every you from brands you love like Birkenstock, Nike, Adidas and more at your DSW store or.

[Dana Schwartz]

Dsw.Com On April 27, 1961, John F. Kennedy's plane touched down at LaGuardia Airport. It was his first visit to New York since becoming president. He stepped off the aircraft and slid into a black limousine, which whisked him to his suite at the Carlisle on Madison Avenue. Hours later, a police motorcade accompanied Kennedy south to the Waldorf Astoria. Outside the hotel, more than 3,000 people jammed park Avenue to greet the new leader of the free world. It was Press Week in New York, an annual gathering of more than 1200 editors, publishers and newspaper executives. President Kennedy had come to the Waldorf that evening to address the American Newspaper Publishers Association. His appearance was especially newsworthy. One week earlier, US Backed forces had flown the White flag in Cuba. The Bay of Pigs invasion may have failed to topple the Communist government of Fidel Castro, but it did succeed in escalating the Cold War, a major foreign policy blunder just months into Kennedy's term. Dressed in white tie, Kennedy approached the lectern in the Waldorf's dazzling grand ballroom. His speech was titled the President and the Press.

[Zaron Burnett]

Some may suggest that this would be more naturally worded the President versus the Press. But those are not my sentiments tonight.

[Dana Schwartz]

Instead, Kennedy said he had a more sober topic to discuss.

[Zaron Burnett]

But I do ask every publisher, every editor and every newsman in the nation and to re examine his own standards and to recognize the nature of our country's peril in time of war. The government and the press have customarily joined in an effort based largely on self discipline to prevent unauthorized disclosures to the enemy in times of clear and present danger. The courts have held that even the privileged rights of the First Amendment must yield to the public's need for national security.

[Dana Schwartz]

These were perilous times, as evidenced by the situation in Cuba. War hadn't been declared, but Kennedy wanted the press to act as if it had. He claimed America's enemies had learned about COVID preparations from simply reading the newspapers, that they'd been able to glean the size, the strength, the location and the nature of our forces and weapons and our plans and strategy for their use. He said that in at least one instance, details about a secret satellite mechanism had been published.

[Zaron Burnett]

The newspapers which printed these stories were loyal, patriotic, responsible and well meaning. Had we been engaged in open warfare, they undoubtedly would not have published such items. But in the absence of open warfare, they recognized only the tests of journalism and not the tests of national security. And my question tonight is whether additional tests should not now be adopted. That question is for you alone to answer. No public official should answer it for you. No governmental plan should impose its restraints against your will. But I would be failing in my duty to the nation in considering all of the responsibilities that we now bear and all of the means at hand to meet those responsibilities if I did not command this problem to your attention and urge its thoughtful consideration.

[Dana Schwartz]

Kennedy ended his address by affirming his respect and admiration for the fourth Estate. He said he shared journalism's obligation to inform the American people, to give them the facts to spark debate. He wasn't asking those in attendance to support his administration. He understood their watchdog role. He not only accepted the accountability of newspapers, he welcomed it.

[Zaron Burnett]

And so it is to the printing press, to the recorder of man's deeds, the keeper of his conscience, the courier of his news that we look for strength and assistance, confident that with your help, man will be what he was born to be, free and independent.

[Dana Schwartz]

The next day, Kennedy's remarks were front page headlines. The New York Times declared, president Urges Press Limit News that Helps Reds. But there was something the Times story didn't mention. Kennedy wasn't just speaking to America's journalists as their president. He was speaking as someone who, at least for three months in 1945, had been one of them. Even if you were well versed in other aspects of JFK's microscopically scrutinized life, you could be forgiven if you were less familiar with this one, that is, if you are familiar with it at all.

[Jason English]

I was 16 and JFK was assassinated.

[Dana Schwartz]

That's Rob Reiner, the famous director, Spinal Tap. Rob Reiner, Princess Bride, Rob Reiner, A Few Good Men, Rob Reiner. And in the podcast space, who killed JFK? Rob Reiner. His 2023 show spent several weeks atop the Apple Top podcast charts.

[Jason English]

I had written a paper in high school about the Cuban Missile Crisis, so I was focused on him as a president. I knew obviously bit about him as a senator. I knew about PT109, and we all knew about his heroics during the Second World War.

[Dana Schwartz]

But even Rob Reiner wasn't dialed in on this chapter of JFK's story.

[Jason English]

As far as him being a journalist, I didn't really know very much about that. And I'm hearing about it essentially for the first time here.

[Dana Schwartz]

It was a brief and relatively under the radar period in JFK's life. At the same time, it had a lasting impact on one of the most iconic presidents in American history. Welcome to Very special episodes, an iHeart original podcast. I'm your host, Dana Schwartz, and this is JFK's forgotten summer in Journalism.

[Zaron Burnett]

Welcome back to Very Special Episodes. I am Jason English. She is Dana Schwartz. He is Zaron Burnett. And on this podcast, we tell one great story each week, and I'm gonna start here. I love a good prequel. Better Call Saul, Wicked. The Muppet Babies. Just give me the backstory.

[Dana Schwartz]

The Muppet Babies. Did you see Solo? That's the real test of whether you like a prequel.

[Jason English]

I did see that one, and that is a real test.

[Zaron Burnett]

So on the topic of presidential jobs by osmosis, we've heard these stories over the years. Barack Obama worked at Baskin Robbins and Ronald Reagan, Joe Biden, they were lifeguards. Grover Cleveland was a hangman. I don't know if you guys knew that he's.

[Rob Reiner]

Whoa.

[Zaron Burnett]

Carried out at least two executions.

[Dana Schwartz]

Did not know that Grover Cleveland.

[Zaron Burnett]

The Grover Cleveland. Richard Nixon. Got to get him in here. He worked at the family gas station, naturally. And LBJ owned the Muzak distribution rights. He was in the radio business with his wife, and they own Muzak rights in the Austin area. I don't think any of those stories are going to be worthy of very special episodes.

[Dana Schwartz]

I don't know, the Hangman one sounds kind of interesting.

[Jason English]

Yeah, Hangman and Muzak are both interesting angles.

[Zaron Burnett]

It's a little dark. I'm talking about the muzak1. But JFK is a journalist.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah, I love it because I actually started as a journalist.

[Jason English]

Oh, that's right.

[Dana Schwartz]

That was my prequel. Jason knew me when.

[Zaron Burnett]

I'm looking forward to your presidential run as well.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah. I'll be the one to set things right.

[Jason English]

You already got my vote.

[Zaron Burnett]

So.

[Dana Schwartz]

For John Fitzgerald Kennedy, the seeds of service were planted at a young age.

[Rob Reiner]

It's often said that he was born into a rich family. That's not exactly true.

[Dana Schwartz]

Fred Logeval is one of Kennedy's biographers.

[Rob Reiner]

His father, Joe Sr. Became extraordinarily wealthy. Let's say the first 10 years of Jack's life is really when he makes his fortune. You know, what's notable about this family, of course, is that he and his wife Rose, instill in their children, all of them really, this idea that they need to think beyond themselves, they need to give something back. They need to commit themselves at least a little bit to public service. And I think that's something that Jack takes in.

[Dana Schwartz]

After graduating From Harvard in 1940, Jack had his eye on law school. His plans changed when the United States entry into World War II seemed inevitable. Jack and his older brother, Joseph Kennedy Jr. Enlisted in the U.S. naval Reserve.

[Rob Reiner]

Both brothers want to serve in the war. They both want to see combat, which is an interesting decision on their part because as you say, they could have avoided this. But they both serve and of course, get into harm's way before too long. And in Jack's case, that becomes as a commander of a PT boat.

[Dana Schwartz]

PT boats were small, fast and heavily armed. Jack's was the 80 foot PT109, part of a fleet in the Pacific theater. As US forces battled the Japanese, the 26 year old lieutenant commanded his vessel through the waters of the Solomon Islands. In terms of combat assignments, it didn't get much riskier. At the same time, the mission suited Jack. He had practically grown up on the sea. During summers at the Kennedy Compound sailing Nantucket Sound off the coast of Hyannis Point. Still, no amount of nautical expertise could have prepared him for the danger he would face in the wee hours of August 2, 1943.

[Rob Reiner]

It was a moonless night. They're in the Becket Strait in the Solomons. PT boats are patrolling looking for Japanese vessels. Some of the PT boats had radar. Lieutenant Kennedy's did not have radar, which really limited what he was able to perceive on this very dark night. And what happens is he does not see that a Japanese destroyer is bearing down on them.

[Dana Schwartz]

The Japanese warship slammed into Jack's boat, slicing it in half. The PT109 didn't stand a chance. That might have been the end of John F. Kennedy right then and there. No Congress, no Jackie O. No White House, no Bay of Pigs, no Cuban Missile crisis, no Lee Harvey Oswald, no JFK Airport.

[Jason English]

These are the events that change history. He knew what war was. I mean obviously Eisenhower did. But here was a man who really was in the midst of the horrors of war.

[Dana Schwartz]

Miraculously, Jack survived. So did most of his crew. They could see a small island in the distance. Now all they had to do was swim to safety. Jack had as good a chance of making it as any. A few years earlier he'd competed on the Harvard swim team. He just hadn't ever trained for a long distance swim through shark infested enemy waters with a wounded comrade in tower.

[Rob Reiner]

He drags this injured member of his crew for these three and a half four hours. So he has to not just swim for himself but for his comrade and they make it to this island and then they have to figure out what to do from there the whole time. There is the possibility of course that Japanese will spot them. Ultimately they are rescued.

[Dana Schwartz]

On August 20, a front page New York Times headline proclaim Kennedy's son is hero in Pacific. In his book Coming of Age in the American Century Fred Logevald describes the episode as a pivotal moment.

[Rob Reiner]

His World War II experience and especially his experience in the Pacific has a very important effect on young Jack Kennedy. I think it boosts his belief that he belongs, that he can make decisions, that he can be a leader. So it's a real shot in terms of his self confidence and his self belief. I also think it shapes his worldview, his belief that coming out of this war the United States needs to play a primary role in world affairs. It affects how he sees the world, how he sees the US role in that world. That I think in a way will stay with him till the end of his Days.

[Dana Schwartz]

One year after Jack's near death experience in the Pacific, his older brother volunteered for a highly perilous operation. Joe Jr's orders were to fly a plane packed with explosives towards France and then jump out with a parachute. He didn't make it.

[Rob Reiner]

It's a kind of suicide mission really. That plane will continue. Well, it explodes before they can bail.

[Dana Schwartz]

Joe Jr. S death was almost too much to bear for his father, a former SEC chairman who'd served as the US Ambassador to the United Kingdom earlier in the war. The Boston Globe reported, quote from the time the family received the Navy telegram the ex ambassador has kept to his room. His grief is deep. Joe Jr. Had been the golden child and heir apparent of a proud political lineage. From a young age, his father had been grooming him for greatness. Now Joe's goal of becoming America's first Catholic president had been cut tragically short.

[Jason English]

You had Joe Kennedy who always wanted the family to be considered legitimate and to be accepted in the political world. I don't think Jack thought of himself for somebody who was going to take up that mantle. I think he always thought his older brother was going to be the one.

[Dana Schwartz]

It was a devastating turn of events for the family. It also had major implications for the Kennedy clan's second oldest son. Because the family's hopes and dreams didn't just die with Joe Jr. Rather, they were transferred onto Jack. Following his exploits in the Pacific, Jack sought treatment for chronic back pain that had ailed him for years. He ended up having surgery which officially put an end to his military career. On March 1, 1945, Lt. Kennedy was honorably discharged. In his future laid out before him, still mourning the death of his brother, Jack found himself at a crossroads. He emerged from his Navy service a household name, the torch bearer of his family's political ambitions. Politics was in his blood. In addition to the roles his father had played in government. Jack's maternal grandfather had been a mayor of Boston and a US Congressman. His paternal grandfather had been a state senator. Both of his great uncles were state senators. And his father's first cousin was once the mayor of Brockton, Massachusetts. But in that spring of 1945, as the war entered its final inning, Jack had a lot to consider.

[Rob Reiner]

He could go to law school, which he has flirted with not because he has a particular interest in the law, but because it's a career step for somebody who doesn't maybe quite know what they want to do. He's interested in journalism and I think he is thinking about politics.

[Dana Schwartz]

Jack was already an accomplished Writer. Senior year at Harvard he wrote a thesis exploring British appeasement in the run up to World War II. Joe Sr. Encouraged his son to publish it. To make the work commercially viable they enlisted Joe's friend Arthur Kroc, the Pulitzer Prize winning Washington correspondent for the New York Times. In his memoirs Kroc would write of Jack's thesis. It was remarkable for the fine perception of the fundamental problems of a peace loving democracy threatened with dictatorial regimes. Kroc helped Jack turn the thesis into a book called why England Slept with a foreword from Henry Luce, the founder of Time magazine. It became a bestseller and the book's thesis persuaded Kroc that Jack was suited to a career in journalism. Five years later as Jack weighed career options, Joe Sr. Got in touch with his old pal William Randolph Hearst.

[Rob Reiner]

He had known Joe Sr. Had known Hearst from his days as a Hollywood mogul in the 1920s. Late 1920s Joe Kennedy became a serious player in Hollywood. Made a good deal of money in Hollywood. Got to know Hearst at that point partly through Marion Davies. And in the 1930s Joe Kennedy convinced Hearst to back FDR for reelection in 1936. So they have these connections.

[Dana Schwartz]

Joe Sr. Helped Jack get a gig as a syndicated special correspondent for the Hearst newspapers which included the San Francisco examiner, the Chicago Herald American and the New York Journal American. The idea was that Jack would cover the unfolding post war order from a serviceman's point of view. Hearst got to splash his papers with the byline of best selling author John F. Kennedy. Identified at the top of each article as a recently retired P boat hero and son of former ambassador Joseph P. Kennedy. Jack got to test the journalistic waters while elevating his profile in a way that could prove advantageous to a future in politics. His first assignment was a banger. At the end of April 1945 Hearst sent him to San Francisco to cover the founding conference of the United Nations. Jack suddenly found himself at the epicenter of international policymaking breathing the same air as illustrious statesmen.

[Zaron Burnett]

Delegates representing 46 nations came to San.

[Dana Schwartz]

Francisco on April 25th, 1945.

[Rob Reiner]

Representing almost 2000 million people, more than 80% of.

[Zaron Burnett]

Humanity all at war when the conference.

[Rob Reiner]

Was begun they came with hope born of common struggle.

[Dana Schwartz]

If you were a cub reporter like Jack Kennedy, this was the place place to be. Kennedy joined 1200 accredited journalists from established scribes like James Reston, Walter Lippman and the Kennedys friend Arthur Kroc to gossips like Walter Winchell, Earl Wilson and PETA Hopper. Describing the media spectacle life Magazine observed, Like pilgrims drawn to Mecca, the nation's newspapermen, Florida flocked to San Francisco. They were all there, the wise and the witless, the sober and the silly, the pundits, pontificators and performing seals. The goal of the conference was to create a template for global diplomacy in the interest of preventing future wars. In his first dispatch on April 28, Kennedy warned readers not to get their hopes up.

[H]

There is an impression that this is the conference to end wars and introduce peace on earth and goodwill toward nations, excluding, of course, Germany and Japan. Well, it's not going to do that.

[Dana Schwartz]

Kennedy's debut also included a man on the street interview with a decorated marine who told him, I don't know much about what's going on, but if they just fix it so that we don't have to fight anymore, they can count me in. Kennedy replied, me too, Sarge. In the evenings, Kennedy swanned about San Francisco with the elite. Kroc, writing in his memoirs years later, painted some memorable scenes of the humble Hearst correspondent cutting in on a dance with the British Foreign Secretary's wife on his bed at the Palace Hotel with a highball in one hand and a telephone receiver in the other.

[H]

Hello there. Yeah, I want to speak to the managing editor of the Chicago Herald Examiner. Mm, not. Not in. Well, put somebody on to take a message. Good. Will you see that the boss gets this message as soon as you can reach him? Thank you. Here's the message. Kennedy will not be filing tonight.

[Dana Schwartz]

Tempting as it may have been, Kennedy wasn't there to party. Over the course of a month, he wrote 16 columns at about 300 words apiece. Not exactly the most grueling journalistic assignment, but well worth the rate hearst was paying. $750, which is about 13,000 today. Plus, it was exciting work. Kennedy basically had a front row seat to history, reporting on the birth of the UN as the allies declared victory in Europe.

[Rob Reiner]

I mean, it's hard to overstate the symbolic importance of the San Francisco conference, even if the sort of basics of that world order have already been laid out at prior conferences among the Allies, there's already a sense that this is now gonna be effectively a two power world. The United States and the Soviet Union will be the key players. And the young reporter, Jack Kennedy, his stories filed from San Francisco are so fascinating.

[Dana Schwartz]

Kennedy's stories weren't exactly straight news. And his point of view wasn't just that of a serviceman, but someone who had his own ideas about world affairs. May 1.

[H]

This conference, from a distance, may have appeared so Far like an international football game. Well, that part's over. And they are scheduled tomorrow to get at the real work of the conference. This will consist of trying to solve a number of more or less technical problems. Upon how these dull problems are settled may depend our peace in the coming years.

[Dana Schwartz]

May 16th.

[H]

The Russians have recognized our difficult position and have taken full advantage of it. They have attempted to embarrass us and the British at every turn.

[Dana Schwartz]

May 18.

[H]

There is growing discouragement among people concerning our chances of winning any lasting peace from this war. There is talk of fighting the Russians in the next 10 or 15 years. We have indeed gone a long way since those hopeful days early in the war when we talked of union now and one world. There is a fundamental distrust between Great Britain and the United States on the one hand, and Russia on the other hand.

[Dana Schwartz]

The growing distrust between Russia and the US was a running theme of Kennedy's reportage.

[Rob Reiner]

Kennedy picks up on this. He's as quick as anybody else, I would argue, at least in terms of the reporting at the conference, to see how these two players were going to be the most important players, number one and number two, how they were destined to come into. There's a realism in his articles. These pieces stand up pretty well. If one were to go back now and read all of them, they're solid in the context of their time. I would say they're even solid in terms of what he saw, maybe at least to a degree before others did about this new world order.

[Dana Schwartz]

The San Francisco conference carried on until June 26, when the assembled delegates signed the historic charter of the United Nations. By then Kennedy was gone. Another story had beckoned, this time across the ocean. Kennedy hadn't been to Europe since 1939. He had visited Germany right before the invasion of Poland. Then he had traveled to London. On September 3, 1939, Kennedy observed Britain's declaration of war in the House of Commons where soon to be prime minister Winston Churchill declared, we are fighting to save the whole world from the pestilence of Nazi tyranny and in defense of all that is most sacred to man. Nearly six years later, the Allies had won that fight and Churchill was up for re election. The conventional wisdom held that Churchill's wartime leadership would make him a shoo in. But one journalist wasn't so sure. In fact, this journalist, a fresh faced correspondent for the Hearst papers, had a hunch that the Prime Minister's days were numbered.

[Rob Reiner]

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[Dana Schwartz]

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[Rob Reiner]

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[Jason English]

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[Jenny Garth]

This is Jenny Garth from I do part two. Can't afford Ozempic? Try WeGovy from FutureHealth just $199. An FDA appro for weight loss. No insurance or tricky syringes needed, just results. Visit futurehealth.com that's future without the E and start losing weight this week. Future Health Weight Loss Data based on independent studies sponsored by Future Health Future Health is not a healthcare services provider. Meds are prescribed at providers discretion.

[Dana Schwartz]

In June 1945, Kennedy flew to London and checked into a two room suite at the Groves Governor House Hotel. It was Jack's first international assignment and he'd gotten business cards with his Hearst affiliation. John Fitzgerald Kennedy International News Service A letter to the US Consul General from the manager of the news service made it official. This is to certify that Mr. John F. Kennedy Is on special assignment in Europe for for hearst newspapers. The british elections were scheduled for July 5th. Kennedy arrived just in time for the frenzied home stretch of the campaigns.

[Rob Reiner]

He's fascinated by electoral politics in a democratic system. Again. He's grown up experiencing this with his grandfather, honey fitz, A legendary boston politician. He has followed elections, you know, as a student. Now he's seeing it up close, and I think it absolutely inclines him more as much as he's enjoying, I think, the reporting gig, to seek out political possibilities for himself.

[Dana Schwartz]

Churchill seemed to have the upper hand, at least if his high approval ratings were any indication. Speaking at a campaign stop where thousands of cheering supporters lined the the streets, the prime minister said, this election is one of great importance because it comes at a moment when the future of our country is at stake. Around the same time Kennedy filed his latest story. The headlines that appeared with the article in various hearst publications sounded ominous. Churchill's defeat possible in new tide sweeping Europe. Laborites may defeat Churchill says Reuter. Churchill may lose election. Here's kennedy in his own words.

[H]

This may come as a surprise to most americans who feel Churchill is as indomitable at the polls as he was in the war. However, Churchill is fighting a tide that is surging through Europe, Washing away monarchies and conservative governments everywhere. And that that tide flows powerfully in england. England is moving towards some form of socialism, if not in this election, then surely at the next.

[Dana Schwartz]

Kennedy's article turned out to be prescient. On July 26, after all the votes were finally counted, the labour party beat Churchill's conservative government in a landslide. Arthur kroc later said that Kennedy's writings were, quote, the only intimation I got from anyone that Churchill would be defeated.

[Rob Reiner]

Even in one or two of his pieces from san francisco, he suggests that the conservatives are in some trouble, which to many people seems absolutely crazy. Churchill in trouble politically? How can that be? He's one of the great leaders of the 20th century. I think people already understood. Kennedy, even before he gets to london, says that this is a possibility. What he then proceeds to do in the weeks prior to the vote Is to follow the campaign, and he shows a reporter's nose for a good story.

[Dana Schwartz]

On the heels of Churchill's defeat, Kennedy.

[H]

Wrote, england has been hit by some blockbusters in the last five years, but none of them ever shook her like today's election results. Explanations for the crushing tory defeat were already forthcoming, and they will be pouring in for the next few weeks.

[Dana Schwartz]

It was one of his last dispatches from The United Kingdom. But Kennedy still had a few more stops on his tour as a correspondent for Hearst. From England, he traveled to Paris and then on to Germany. That's where the U.S. the Soviet Union and Great Britain were hashing out a plan for post war Europe at the Potsdam conference. The historical record is a bit fuzzy as to whether Kennedy actually filed any stories from this last leg of the trip. It seems like he probably didn't. He did, however, keep a diary. You can buy a reprint of it for under 10 bucks. It's called Prelude to the European Diary of John F. Kennedy. The diary reflects on the utter destruction.

[H]

In places like Berlin, the devastation is complete. The streets are relatively clear, but there is not a single building which is not gutted. On some of the streets, stench, sweet and sickish from dead bodies is overwhelming. The people all have completely colorless faces, a yellow tinge with pale tan lips. They are all carrying bundles. Where are they going? No one seems to know. I wonder whether they do.

[Dana Schwartz]

In one entry, Kennedy describes a somber conversation with a young German girl.

[H]

This girl is about 22, speaks some English and is a Roman Catholic. She said it was difficult to get to Catholic church after the Nazis came to power. Though it was possible. She thought the Germans were going to win the war, but the first victories were just shiny. She thought the future of Germany is melancholy.

[Dana Schwartz]

The final entry is arguably the most chilling one. Kennedy writes about his visit to Hitler's bombed out chalet in the Bavarian Alps, as well as a nearby building.

[H]

After visiting these two places, you can clearly understand how that within a few years Hitler will emerge from the hatred that surrounds him now as one of the most significant figures who ever lived. He had boundless ambition for his country, which rendered him a menace to the peace of the world. But he had a mystery about him in the way that he lived and the manner of his death that will live and grow after him. He had in him the stuff of which legends are made for the record.

[Dana Schwartz]

Kennedyologists who have written about this entry have noted there's no indication that JFK harbored any sympathies for the Fuhrer or Nazi Germany.

[Rob Reiner]

What I take away from the diary is a sense that the world order has fundamentally shifted. And this in part again is based on seeing the destruction all around him. His awareness that Britain is a faded power, that Britain is emerging drastically weakened from the war. Now he's seeing that Germany is destroyed. Coming out of the war, he understands that there's going to be a division of Germany. What's a strength in his Analysis. Analysis is the degree to which he perceives that this division between east and west, the United States the leader of one camp, if you will, and the Soviet Union the leader in the other. That I think is affirmed for him in these weeks in Germany and again, I repeat, because I think it matters a conviction that he has, which is that the United States must become the leader of the west going forward.

[Dana Schwartz]

An edition of the diary published in 1995, includes an introduction by Hugh Sidney, who covered Kennedy's presidency for Time. He writes, quote, kennedy shows in his diary that he has the instincts of a good journalist. The unflagging curiosity, the eyes, the ears. Others in Kennedy's orbit have described that spring and summer of 1945 as a key step in his political evolution. Close friend and speechwriter Ted Sorensen wrote in his own JFK biography, in a brief fling at journalism, he had observed the power politics at Potsdam and the San Francisco UN Conference and covered the British election. All this sharpened his interest in public affairs and public service. Two of JFK's White House aides said he considered his journalistic dalliances, quote, the thing that finally moved Jack Kennedy toward active politics. After getting a close look as a reporter at the post war Political Leaders in Action, he decided that he might be able to. To find more satisfaction and to perform more useful service as a politician than as a political writer. Kennedy left Europe in early August as the war was hurtling toward its catastrophic conclusion in Japan. By the end of the year, he had made the decision to run for office. In April 1946, he officially entered the race to represent his home state's 11th congressional district. And, well, the rest is history.

[Rob Reiner]

Nobody thought of this at the time, but present in potsdam are the 33rd President of the United States, Harry Truman, the 34th President of the United States, Dwight Eisenhower, and the 35th President of the United States, young Jackson Kennedy.

[Jason English]

He was the youngest president ever to be elected. I was only a teenager, but he felt like one of us. But here was a guy, he was 43 at the time, and we thought, wow, this is somebody that's almost in our generation, somebody who we actually can look up to and respect. And he was funny, he had a quick wit. That guy can be a president That's. That was really cool to us. He was a hero to our generation.

[Dana Schwartz]

One day in 1960, when Kennedy was running for president, he sat down to dictate some notes. He would do this from time to time, preparing for the memoirs he expected to write. On this particular occasion, Kennedy reflected on his trajectory from PT boat captain to candidate for America's highest office.

[Zaron Burnett]

My brother Joe was killed in Europe as a flyer in August 19th, and that ended our hopes for him. But I didn't even start to think about a political profession more than a year later. When the war came, I didn't know what I was going to do, and I didn't find it oppressive that I didn't know. In 44 and 45, I had been in the hospital for about a year, recovering from some injuries I received in the. And I worked as a reporter covering the San Francisco conference, the British election, and the Potsdam meeting, all in 1945.

[Dana Schwartz]

A few beats later, in the recording, which you can find online at the website of UVA's Miller Center, Kennedy explains why journalism didn't captivate him the way politics ultimately did.

[Zaron Burnett]

A reporter is reporting what happens, he's not making it happen. Underline making, underline reporting. Even the good reporters, the ones who are really fascinated by what happens and who find real stimulus putting their poses into the center of action, even they, in a sense, are in a secondary profession. It's reporting what happened, but it isn't participating.

[Dana Schwartz]

By all accounts, JFK would have made a fine journalist. And if fate hadn't intervened, maybe that's exactly what he would have ended up being.

[Rob Reiner]

Let's suppose that Joe Jr survives. He was seen by his father and others as the one who would enter politics. So he does so, let's say, and let's say he rises to the top or near the top. I actually suggest that there are reasons why Joe Kennedy Jr. Would not have been as successful as his brother was in politics. But let's assume that he would have been. I think Jack Kennedy probably would have pursued, at least in the early going, a journalistic career, and I think he would have been successful at it. It's not impossible to imagine that he stays with that career, that he becomes a kind of Walter Lippmann for a later generation. And because of his skill as an observer, because of his intelligence, because of his ability to write pretty well and pretty quickly, which is important in journalism. Very little reason to believe that he would have not been highly successful in that capacity. It's a fascinating scenario.

[Jason English]

He had a curious mind and he had a great way of expressing himself. Would he have made a great journalist? Of course he would.

[Zaron Burnett]

So this should be a movie, this one, a little added cinematic flair, because the great director Rob Reiner gave us a nice cameo here. Zarin, have you put your casting director hat on?

[Jason English]

I did. And in the spirit of Rob Reiner. I thought a lot about this because I wanted to get the casting right. He's really good at casting. So I thought, okay, I give this one up for Rob. So for casting for young jfk. The kid looks like him. So this one was easy. That kid Finn Wolfhard from Stranger Things. I mean, he's got the floppy hair.

[Dana Schwartz]

You think he looks like jfk.

[Jason English]

Out of all the young actors I was looking at, he was the closest appearance.

[Dana Schwartz]

All right, all right.

[Jason English]

Tony Goldwyn, the guy from Law and Order and from Scandal, he looks the most like a Kennedy, but I think he's too old now to play Young Jack, so I was looking for a young Jack.

[Dana Schwartz]

You know what? I'm gonna give you a crazy pitch.

[Rob Reiner]

What?

[Dana Schwartz]

Young Solo himself. Golden Ehrenreich.

[Jason English]

Whoa.

[Zaron Burnett]

Bring it back.

[Rob Reiner]

Yes.

[Dana Schwartz]

Bring him back.

[Jason English]

Good jawline pull, too. Okay, now for Joe Kennedy Sr. For the father, I thought Tim Blake Nelson. Delmar from oh, Brother, Where Art Thou? He looks like Joe Kennedy Sr. I looked up Joe Kennedy Sr. I'm like, oh, that's a done deal. Tim Blake Nelson. And then for, like, William Randolph Hearst, I thought this one. I was like, okay. Once again, looked at the man difficult face because he has a kind of like, you know, like that time traveler pre iPhone face. You're like, okay, who am I going to get? Edward Norton was as close as I could get being like, boom. I think he's got the acting chops. He can do the gravitas. And then for Winston Churchill, this was a surprise. Patton Oswald in a play for an Oscar.

[H]

Wow.

[Dana Schwartz]

Whoa. I love when a comedian goes serious.

[Rob Reiner]

Right.

[Jason English]

I thought that could be fun because Toby Jones was the other one, the British actor, but he'd already played him, so that was like, okay, that's too easy.

[Dana Schwartz]

Yeah. British people always get mad when Americans play Winston Churchill, because in the crown, it was John Lithgow. John Lithgow. And they got mad. But he did a great job. So, you know, I did not see that, though.

[Jason English]

John Lithgow, that's an interesting choice. He seems, like, too tall.

[Dana Schwartz]

He was great. And so I think we can give it to another American.

[Zaron Burnett]

Okay, I like that call. And John Lithgow, quick aside, will be playing Buzz Aldrin in an upcoming podcast that launches, I think it's July 9th. Really? Yeah.

[Jason English]

Fighting Buzz Ald, my man.

[Zaron Burnett]

Your guy. Maybe we put Rob Reiner in this as kind of the narrator. He can be like the Peter Falkerel from Princess Bride where that fits into the narrative. But let's work him in.

[Dana Schwartz]

He plays the newspaper man who assigns JFK his job. It's a non historical character, but just the scrappy newspaper man who's a mentor to JFK in the movie version.

[Jason English]

So that's good.

[Zaron Burnett]

Good call.

[Jason English]

Good screenwriting. I love one thing about this story is it's a perfect reminder that a great truth of leadership, the secret to being a great leader is be a great storyteller. You know what I mean? Like think about it. All of our great American presidents, they're almost all great storytellers.

[Zaron Burnett]

So if JFK the journalist was coming up today, what would be your advice? Start a substack. Just focus on social wow, that's a.

[Dana Schwartz]

Tough one, I would say. Oh, you have family money. Great. You'll be just fine.

[Zaron Burnett]

Very Special Episodes is made by some very special people. Today's episode was written by Joe Pompeo. Joe is one of our regulars. You can find out what else he's up to@joe pompeo.net this show is hosted by Dana Schwartz, Zarin Burnett and Jason English. Our producer is Josh Fisher. Editing and sound design by Jonathan Washington and Josh Fisher. Additional editing by Mary Dew. Mixing and mastering by Josh Fisher. A big thanks to our JFK voice actor Tom Antonellis. It's very hard to do reenactments in an episode that also includes archival audio of the guy you are reenacting. But I thought Tom nailed it. Great to work with him again. And of course, big thanks to Rob Reiner for agreeing to talk to us. Go see Spinal Tap 2 at the theaters this September. Thanks to Rocco at Rob's company for helping coordinate original music by Elise McCoy. Research and fact checking by Austin Thompson and Joe Pompeo. Show logo by Lucy Quintanilla. Our executive producer is Jason English. If you ever want to email the show, you can reach us at Very Special episodesmail.com Very Special episodes is a production of I Heart Podcasts.

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